/lit/ - Literature

>>19730996
Weren’t his observations that we’re currently in a winter culturally and we might see a new spring afterwards? Just give it another century or more.

>>19730996
Elon Musk is the Sulla.
Jeff Bezos is the Marius.

>>19731040
>Just give it another century or more
j-just outside of our lifetime, hey bros?...

>>19730996
The empire never needed a caesar to operate

Just came here to make a fallout NV reference

not for at least another 50 years.

>>19730996
Caesarism has come.

>>19730996
>is he?
no, chuddy - it's
>is she?
and yes - she already came....

>He interprets that Caesar is the "hero" coming to save us
It's not Caesar, it's Caesarism. It's not Julius Caesar, it's the Caesars, the ambitious fact men that come about during the peak of the megapolitan mode. It's the death of the war of ideas into brute power struggles and/or the calcified imperial government under the "rule of one" principle. Each Roman governor gradually, around and after Julius Caesar's life, became his own Caesar. The embodied character of "emperor," often taken in seemingly sacred titles like celestial sovereigns, "August One," etc. while below the surface the inner-vitality of such things is dead. It's living decrepitude. Even if specific figures or men of the time have a historically accidental disposition away from the morphology, that is what they become in function.
How will this look like for us? It's not certain, and many Spengler readers and scholars have interpreted this differently. A democratic demagogue? Military dictator? Wealthy businessman? Righteous Catholic Emperor? Puritan crusader? AI machine mind? Or the literal Antichrist?
Or will we die an early death like the Aztecs?
Spengler merely observes this as the last, phase of death and "return to the earth" of the civilization. These tend to come with certain types of people, like Caesar-men.
Another detail that's missed: Machine Civilization. This, to great exception, is something Spengler recognizes correctly as totally new to Faustian culture. No other culture would or could conceive of such a thing. That's the Faust myth: Faust gets dragged to hell at the end. For this reason, there's a spell of doom that's fairly inscrutable.

Well Trump was America's Marius and Biden is America's Sulla, so...

>>19731215
First time i have seen someone from /lit/ who did read the book and not just wiki articles from le based bald man

>>19731221
>he thinks this is still the republic

>>19731179
this
Say what you want but german*ids get lucky with their leaders

>>19731170
How hard is he shitting himself due to BTC prices plummeting?

>>19731365
BTC is volatile. Everyone knows that. What is it this time? Kazakhstan? That seems to be stabilizing already. Bitcoin is still on a trajectory upwards.

>a spectre is haunting europe

>>19731322
>get lucky with their leaders
>Merkel good
Literally how? Merkel singlehandedly caused the refugee crisis within Europe. Given that this set the precedent for the ~1 billion climate refugees which will be making their way to Europe soon, she might be the root cause of the collapse of a continent.

>>19730996
Hi, I'm the new Caesar

>>19731394
They’re letting the US aggressions to their south flood the place with young cheap labor. The “crisis” is a nationalists concern. Power bases are pleased.

>>19731306
It still is in the government, but that's going to change in another 20 or so years.

>>19731506
Those operating under the delusion that the millions of people pouring in are more-or-less robots who perform labor and consume products and do nothing else are in for a very rude surprise. Shockingly, these people have their own politics and beliefs, and these do not always mesh with those of European society. There is a reason the most successful country on Earth right now, China, is so reluctant to embrace mass immigration.

>>19731544
>the most successful country on Earth right now, China
kek

>>19730996

>>19731059
Jeff Bezos does even try to present himself as a man of the people. He's more of a Crassus

>>19731550
Name one that is more successful.

Seems relevant to the thread so anyone know where to read up on the great man theory by Carlisle?

>>19731561
China is a culturally barren shithole that is now on the world's shit list and would get blown to kingdom come if they tried anything.

>>19731574
not him but name one that is more successful

>>19730996
>>19731040
>>19731059
>>19731062
>>19731070
>>19731130
>>19731170
>>19731179
>>19731215
>>19731221
>>19731240
>>19731306
>>19731383
>>19731552
>>19731558
>>19731565

>>19731539
The US imperial phase has been blanketing us in so many subtle thin layers over the decades, you simply don’t notice that we’ve been empire your whole life. Our pretorian guard assassinated a president and got away with it. We’ve been at war for over twenty years now. There is no functional democratic process, that’s a sham. We’re increasingly a security state. The republic is long gone. The next twenty years will hopefully be the break up of the government and the unity of some locations and their need to put their trade routes up. Ah, but we’ll still have to deal with scheming fascists

>>19731574
>Success is measured in your ability to blow things up
UNDERAGE! JANNY TAKE HIM AWAY!

>>19731625
>The History of Popperism

>>19731070
This

>>19730996
Caesarism isn't some great saviour that you should be praying for. It's just the result of instability producing a power vacuum, which someone is bound to step into. The American empire is already retreating from the middle east, so you can expect to see the world order break in your lifetime.
Depending on how old you are, you may or may not live to see the man who will eventually fill the role of Caesar. It doesn't matter too much anyway since it's the role that's important, not the individual.

>>19731394
>Merkel singlehandedly caused the refugee crisis within Europe.
This is how you expose yourself as utterly clueless

>>19731394
Singlehandedly? It was France and the UK who wanted Gaddafi dead with no care for the repercussions, and now Libya has become the refugee escape point everyone said it would

>>19731550
I noticed you didn't attempt to refute his claim

>>19731574
The western world manufactured China's pariah status precisely because of the sheet magnitude of their success. It is a testament to their eclipsing of former ruling nations and how concerned that has made them. To suggest that China's vilification was in any way a natural process only speaks to the terminal status of the West's post-truth worldview

>>19731625
>popper
Isn't that the chemical which faggots inhale to loosen up their butts?

>>19731666
>Success is measured in your ability to blow things up
No, it's in one's ability to produce a historically relevant culture, which China still fails at doing.

>>19732476
The Chinese are, for the most part, cheating, autistic fucks. No one made them like that, they're just like that. Have you ever actually dealt with them?

>>19730996
Nightmare scenario: Trump is the Caesar or the best this cycle could offer

>>19730996
He necessarily does. Just as entropy can decrease locally, but necessarily increases across the entire system and thus eventually noramlizes locally, we can create these value-less, progressive systems temporarily, but the reality of the world necessitates that a system cultivate strength or die in the long run.

>>19732572
>No, it's in one's ability to produce a historically relevant culture
Relevant to whom? Did you even read Spengler lmao? This belief that cultures can be objectively ranked is something he criticises in the very beginning of the book.

>>19731215
Based

>>19732588
>Relevant to whom?
Anyone. That includes yourself. The Chinese don't even respect themselves, so how do they expect others to ever respect them?

>This belief that cultures can be objectively ranked
It's not an objective ranking, it's common fucking sense. If you don't care about history, like the Chinese don't care, then history won't care about you.

>>19732596
>Anyone.
The Chinese culture is extremely relevant to the Chinese themselves obviously, as well as to many other countries in the Sinosphere, from Mongolia to Vietnam.
>That includes yourself.
Chinese culture is only irrelevant to me because I have been raised in another culture, just like you. Truly, to us Chinese culture doesn't mean anything in terms of influence, but to try to impose this notion onto the vast entirety of history is the same as imposing your own values onto it, without realising that had the Chinese done the same it would've been our culture which is irrelevant.
>It's not an objective ranking, it's common fucking sense.
Oh, a common fucking sense! A fucking thing in itself, no less! Again: to whom? "Common sense" isn't a given, it isn't objective or all-encompassing, because what it is just the most widespread interpretation of the fact which otherwise says nothing about itself, and in your case you interpret all other cultures from the lenses of your own, which you obviously have no right to if you believe anything of what you say to amount to the sole undeniably true standpoint. I see not only you didn't read Spengler but you didn't read Nietzsche even, so why not pick up a book instead of talking out of your ass on 4chan?

>>19732578
I dont know who the new ceasar shall be, but im pretty sure its not Trump.

>>19732498
It's poppers, always plural
>captcha: YYS0Y

>>19732659
What are the Chinese known for today? Can you tell me? Here, let me give you a starting list to work off of:

>flooding internet marketplaces with cheap, watered down products no one likes
>building shady dropshipping outlets across the world
>copying art from other cultures as opposed to creating their own
>hacking, cheating, and review bombing websites and online videogames
>having subpar architectural and manufacturing standards
>gacha phone games
>being bullies to Tibet
>spying on their own people
>sweatshops and high suicide rates
>engineering / spreading COVID-19

What a wonderful, historically relevant culture they appear to have. Looking forward to seeing you expand on this list of world-changing qualities of theirs.

>China isn't successful because they don't make movies for westerners
Gwailobros, this is getting a bit sad.

>>19732720
>doesn't address the points, just attacks a straw man
Absolutely pathetic. This is why no one likes the Chinese and their shill faggots like you.

>>19732714
Ah yes, the Chinese, the second biggest economy on the planet, the worlds largest exporter and the largest trade partner of the majority of nations, famously known for producing shit nobody wants. That other anon is right, i think youd do best to pick up a book sometime

>>19731574
>>19732476
>>19732572
The Chinese were perfectly content with staying in their part of the globe until Eurangutans started kicking it around.
Now the dragon is awakening and it has eyes on the rest of the world.
Good job breaking, idiots.

>>19732729
The second biggest economy almost entirely thanks to rare earth metals, which does not address my points in any way. They don't output a culture worth a damn and this is why they aren't successful as a people. If you want to argue this, then explain to me what they are known for today in terms of their cultural output.

>>19732725
I'm not even the guy you were talking about, but you sound retarded. What is any X country "known for today" except a few stereotypes?
I guess the US is "known for" exploding Middle Eastern countries and making Marvel movies. Russia is known for Putin memes, producing natural gas, and totally not waging wars in Ukraine. Beautiful cultures all around.
The Chinese write books and make movies. Sure, most of those are boring and derivative, but that's the same as everywhere. Just because they aren't translated doesn't mean they don't exist and that no one cares about them.

>>19732714
>What are the Chinese known for today?
What you're really asking is "What are the Chinese known for in the Western society of today?", because in (at least traditionally) Sinospehere countries, e.g. Japan, the Chinese are known precisely for what they have always been: invention of the hieroglyphics, Confucius, Laotse, Zhuangzhi, ceramics, Tang poetry, Sung fine art, Chinese pagodas, invention of paper and gunpowder etc. From the Western point only the latter has any value to it, because that's the only things that got incorporated into the culture of our own; but that standpoint is by no means objective. You don't know of the Chinese achievements not because they don't exist, but because they are irrelevant to you. Same way, even in modern China (which is largely a Western country now) most people don't know about Dante or Goethe, because to them they are as irrelevant as Li Bai is to you.

>>19732752
>What is any X country "known for today" except a few stereotypes?
Sure, stereotypes always take precedence. But there is still a MASSIVE difference between China and other countries in terms of what they are known for culturally over the last ~80 years. So the Chinese write books and make movies, and some of these are known even outside of China, but most of it is either a regurgitation of what other countries have produced, or simply not enough to outweigh the cultural destitution they impress and force on others. The point is that "most successful country on Earth right now" is a completely, utterly fucking absurd overestimation of their importance and relevance.

>>19732762
Based

>>19732757
Many Japanese hate the Chinese today and are still actively struggling to tear away the latter's historical relevance, e.g. in the formation of their language. Besides, all that shit you mentioned came from ancient China, not modern China, which is what we're talking about here.

>>19732731
That was mostly due to necessity. They did expand towards Vietnam but didn't go further because Vietnam wasn't exactly easy to pacify. Mongols in north were too strong and on top of that lacked the spoils to make any war with them worth it. Japanese had too many natural defences and on top of that had a very powerful warrior aristocrasy.

What I'm trying to say is that they were boxed in and on top of that, for them it wasn't worth it. If Chinese were surrounded by juicy, weak and soft targets they'd move them all down at a moment's notice. But they weren't. They were surrounded by poorfags who were much better warriors than they were.

>>19732714
Western cultural output is a giant meme at this stage as well. If China is dead, then so is West, and lets not pretend that transexualism, feminism and predatory globalist corporate capitalism is a progress.

The only thing that the western world still has is it's technology propagated by the hidden autist-class that will most likely disappear after a few generations due to demographical decay.

>>19732739
You've been memed on if you believe that every country in the world is capable to follow the western predatory model, that btw exists only because there are still enough poorfag countries willing to work for breadcrumbs.

>>19732783
>the West sucks too, so China is the greatest!
Not how it works. And even while the West goes downhill, it still does better than China in terms of cultural output.

>>19732764
>Many Japanese hate the Chinese today and are still actively struggling to tear away the latter's historical relevance, e.g. in the formation of their language.
Japan's struggle against their Chinese heritage isn't exactly something new (see Kokugaku), but what it is really a call for bigger autonomy rather than a complete disregard of it. Same way as the artists of the Renaissance owed a lot more to the Gothic Middle Ages than they do to Antiquity, despite their claims for otherwise. The Japanese who call for complete overwriting of their history: don't you think that substituting hieroglyphics with the Latin just signifies their overturn towards the West, which is itself can only be a Western influence?
>Besides, all that shit you mentioned came from ancient China, not modern China
Because, as I said, modern China is as Chinese as it is Western. You seem to share Marx's belief that feudalism -> capitalism scheme of development is a completely natural progression, the seeds of which are inherent to all civilisations, whereas it really is rooted in Western mindset a lot more than it is in any sort of "common" historical patterns, and the market economy, in fact, was extremely difficult to enforce in the countries where this mindset wasn't prevailing, e.g. Imperial Russia. Weber is right in linking capitalism to the Protestant worldview, and truly, the most successful and consequent market economies have been Protestant, namely the British Empire and the US. I hope this clears how China, as a country whose modern culture is shaped by the blend of Marxism and capitalism - two extremely prominent Western influences - isn't Chinese in the same sense as it was 500 years ago.

>>19731059
>these 2 faggots who are glorified shopkeepers are comparable to Marius and Sulla
lol
the absolute state of infantile manchildren

>>19732818
>The Japanese who call for complete overwriting of their history: don't you think that substituting hieroglyphics with the Latin just signifies their overturn towards the West, which is itself can only be a Western influence?
Yes.

>Because, as I said, modern China is as Chinese as it is Western.
Sure, but overall it's hardly either. Modern China stands rather distinct in it cultural barrenness, no doubt thanks to individuals like Mao.

>>19731574
Of course it is culturally barren. Writing pretty poetry has nothing to do with being an economic powerhouse due to the use of slave labor. You fucking imbecile are in for a rude awakening if you think "cultural superiority" will mean shit when the bombs start flying.

>>19732852
>Sure, but overall it's hardly either.
I think that's actually the case with the most non-Western countries right now. They exist in a sort of a paradox where a refusal to adopt market economy would lead to being military crushed and thus culturally colonised, but rejecting older culture completely would also result in creating a void which could be only filled by Western culture. Probably the only way to escape that state is incorporating Western values via subverting them in an already established axiological paradigm, kinda like Imperial Japan did, but that one didn't end so good either. China does stand a bit special in this regard because it didn't just stop at adopting capitalism/socialism model but went a lot further in destruction of its own heritage during Mao's Cultural Revolution, but since it was still incomplete when Mao died and the Gang of Four didn't succeed the power and go on with the process, what China was left with was indeed that barrenness you were talking about.

>>19732915
>culture = some girly poetry
The Chinese would trip over their own shoelaces and nuke themselves before causing any major destruction in a foreign country and it's because they're culturally destitute.

>>19732926
> Adapt or get crushed by the military

A bunch of Persian goatfuckers living in the mountains would beg to disagree.

>>19732959
>> Adapt or get crushed by the military
As I said this dilemma isn't absolute since the ways to avoid it do exist, but they are a lot more difficult to find and apply. And I honestly don't know a thing about Iran so can't comment on that.

>>19730996
Spengler was retarded.

>>19732926
>what China was left with was indeed that barrenness you were talking about.
China would not have a better culture today if the CR was allowed to go on. Even the CCP thinks that the Cultural Revolution was a mistake.

>>19730996
Yes he is, because it's literally me. Before 2030 you will see a rising star take power. Screenshot this; I plan to make my first major move before the end of the year.

>>19733022
>China would not have a better culture today if the CR was allowed to go on.
If the CR was put to a logical end China would just be a Western country, and while it is questionable whether it's a good thing on its own, being something instead of nothing would definitely benefit the country in its ambitions. The "socialism with Chinese characteristics" course does sound better in theory, but from what I know all there has been squeezed out of it till recent times was just naming weird state capitalism "socialism". But the sooner China makes something bigger out if it, the better for them I guess.

>>19730996
History has no overarching narrative. If you still believe in Marxism, Whig history, grand narratives and cyclical history, you are a moron, plain and simple. No, I will not elaborate.

>>19733046
where? are you liberal or conservative? What's your opinion on Zemmour?

>>19733083
Did you even read the book?

>>19733196
I’ll elaborate for him. He doesn’t read anything.

>>19733196
Unfortunately.

>>19733184
Zemmour is a meme. He won’t make it past the first round of French elections. Europeans are not going to vote for someone that right-wing.

>>19730996
While Spengler is based, I ultimately agree with Koneczny's criticism of him. Social cycle theories are largely constructed on an aprioristic basis and as such are poor at actually explaining history, instead of coming up with cycles and then fitting a series of facts onto them, one should focus primarily on testing laws of civilisational activity and then applying them on to historical analysis.

Koneczny found three:
1. Civilisations* can't be synthesised (united in every aspect). This is a logical necessity, you can't have the doctrine that every piece of land and every subject is the personal property of the Sovereign found in the Turanic civilisation with the doctrine that public and private spheres are co-independent entities found in the non-byzantinised parts of Europe. And neither is compatible with doctrine that all civic and property rights eminate from the state found in byzantine europe and prussia.
2. Civilisational mish-mashing results in the infighting of the mixture's components. If you take the family structure found in the non-byzantinised europe and mix it with a turanic or byzantinic government structure they will naturally trend to one's dissolution.
3. Less sophisticated civilisations have comparitive advantage against more sophisticated ones. More sophisticated civs have more fragile legal systems which can lead to infighting and similair behaviours, less sophisticated civs have less of that and can exploit this advantage. This doesn't mean more sophisticated can't overcome this disadvantage, the way out of this is the promotion of virtue in public life through such ideologies such as nationalism.

* to quote a summary of Buckle: literature and government are, at the best, the products and not the causes of civilization.

As such analysing the current state of the world, we're fucked and there is no glorious guaranteed ceasar to save us. We have an elite that wants to synthesise all the civilisations together, and such cause chaos due to the civilisational fighting. And since the same elite works to destroy any nationalist force, the people of the west are humiliated and subjugated to the Prussianistic Managerial State.
And unless there's a religious and national revival in the west, we are going to die as a civilisation.

>>19731365
He's buying the dip. In a decade he will be one of the wealthiest men in the world and he will cross the rubicon. Either him or someone like him.

>>19733184
>Where
Europe
>Are you liberal or conservative
Neither; I am beyond ideology
>Zemmour
Nobody that operates within the republican framework will make long lasting changes.

>>19733593
Go forward and they will follow.

It's DeSantis.

>>19732129
It is the savior though. Rome reached it zenith during the empire

>>19731062
Each age, even the darkest saw their great men. Even if they end being the torchbearers of culture between two golden ages, their light shines all the more brightly in their surrounding darkness.

>>19733046
Lol no, it's me. But I'm not making any real "moves" for the next few years so if you do act out your plans relatively soon, by all means, I'm watching.

>>19730996
Sex gifs.

>>19733361
Never thought I'd ever see Koneczny on /lit/ yet here we are
Good post

>>19735021
Absolutely thank you. Yeah, Koneczny is an extremely obscure thinker outside of Poland.
I have so far only seen 5 works of his be available in english and online for free, that being On the Plurality on Civilisations and the 4 texts selected for his biography in 'The Polish Christian Philosophy in the 20th Century' which can be found on the Jagiellonian University's website (I put it on Z-Lib).

Konecznyposters unite! All 5 of us that is.

>>19731394
The refugee crisis was just another drop in the bucket. Europe started importing browns when Merkel was in diapers.

>>19731625
Based

>>19731040
there won't be another spring for the west, it doesn't repeat. The only "spring" will be the birth of an entirely new culture, which will be foreign to us

>>19730996
Yes, but it's blue/tranny/post-modern/diversity/multicultural Caesar that will be ruling, not a right-wing traditionalist Make Western Civ. Great Again Caesar.

>>19731625
Normally mass replyers are faggots but this was necessary. All the posters (You)'d here need to see this.

>>19732591
based Ebert poster

>>19731625
>you can't know the future because... its le impossible
top dog investors are laughing at you

>>19732783
>Western cultural output is a giant meme at this stage as well. If China is dead, then so is West, and lets not pretend that transexualism, feminism and predatory globalist corporate capitalism is a progress.
fuck off those are american things, not western things

>>19733361
why tf does this nigga keep saying "turanic civilisation"
tf is that baka

>>19737087
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Turanism

>>19737097
sheeit they be sayin dem whypipo was chinese n shit

>>19733361
>The Jewish civilization considers the law most important. The law is the source of ethics. The law cannot be changed. However, the same law can be differently interpreted, which leads to ethical relativism. Similarly to the Brahmin or Hindu civilization, it is sacral, with religion playing a central role. According to Koneczny, one of the elements of Jewish civilization is a belief in the superior role of one nation or race. Communist states, despite their atheism, are also products of Jewish civilization.

>Communist states, despite their atheism, are also products of Jewish civilization.

>>19737120
Is he wrong tho?

>>19737039
>investors know the future
Imbecile

>>19733361
>And unless there's a religious and national revival in the west, we are going to die as a civilisation.
Nigga, who is we?

>>19731544
I think mass immigration smacks the Chinese as a form of neo-colonialism. It's not for no reason that the U.S. has immigration from Mexico and Central America which is a cheap labor colony for cheap manufacturing and coffee which traps them in either third-world poverty, or, in the case of Mexico, the "middle-income" trap which it cannot escape from under the world system which the U.S. constructed after World War II. There is also some size considerations considering that China's population would be like North America, Europe and Latin America combined.

I think Mao also did a little trolling when he was meeting Nixon by offering to export 100 million Chinese women to America in exchange for industrial equipment. Nixon: "Ha ha... oh Mao..."

Mao: "I'm serious."

>>19732762
The issue really is that China doesn't have to be that. It's so huge that a Chinese domestic consumer market for Chinese entertainment is still fucking massive. That's also why it's impossible for the U.S. to really contain it -- they're incredibly resilient to shocks. They need to shut down a city of 12 million to stomp out COVID? Big whoop. The U.S. slaps sanctions on products made in Xinjiang? There's another 1.3 billion people literally right next door to sell those products to, or simply ship them to another province for assembly or simply swapping the labels on the box.

>>19732818
Marx's writings can also explain European history well but not the Sinic history. But there's also Samir Amin and the tributary mode of production, of which feudalism as theorized by Marx was only a peculiar instance. That retains the Marxist framework while avoiding Eurocentrism.

>>19732926
I think China really has three cultures: traditional, red, and modern. So the traditional culture was smashed into atoms during the Cultural Revolution and was replaced by the red culture (imported from the USSR), then with the opening up came the modern culture which is partly imported from the west and other Asian countries (Japan, South Korea), along with some local developments. But after some time passed, elements of the traditional culture were revived if compatible with modernization (everything from musical instruments to aesthetics and the political system, but also different so a meritocratic bureaucracy "serves the people" instead of "serves my lord"). Then modernization also helped "upgrade" and refresh the red culture, so you get this:

https://youtu.be/w2fF5xcEvEI

https://youtu.be/58nhoOziUCw?t=136

The other two cultures provide a "check" on the modern culture keeping them balanced. They're also not static but developing and interacting with each other dialectically.

So you get modernization without full-blown westernization. Now, the de-linking of modernization with westernization does spell the fall of the West in a sense, because Westernization is considered by the West to be universal, and once it no longer is, then that will create a crisis.

>>19738285
Also another example of this in Chinese pop culture is Charlie Zhou Shen. What's amazing about this guy is that he's very effeminate in his presentation and his voice is like eunuch (which is world class), but it's also "wholesome" compared to the South Korean k-pop which is excessively Western-obsessed. You could say that Charlie Zhou Shen is promoted because he has good morals:

https://youtu.be/3x4D0EYkmZw

So Charlie Zhou Shen is both very modern and trad at the same time. This perhaps illustrates the dialectic at work:

https://youtu.be/lM7AqCznlFs

But then he's also "red" too from time to time while singing a song about the party's anniversary:

https://youtu.be/c_gwyDsmeF4

So these different elements: modern, trad and red are all interacting with each other and keeping each other in balance. So modernization is not western (or excessively western). The traditionalism on the other hand is not standing in the way of modernization but helping accelerate it. And then the red culture is there, being like a filter to make this possible.

>>19731506
Kek, youre a moron. I hope you will enjoy living in new Lebanon, but without nice weather.

>>19738285
>I think mass immigration smacks the Chinese as a form of neo-colonialism
>Being ethnically replaced is colonialism
Another gem from our resident CCP fanboy

>>19740110
Nothing in that post is supportive of turning Europe into refugee camp. Fucking learn to read if you wanna keep posting here.

>>19737106
Plainsmen aren’t Chinese. They’re mid asiatic and many are “caucasian”

>>19731040
Two more we- centuries.

>>19740146
But its the locals who will become the refugees, not the newcomers. Those so called power bases will be migrating either abroad or to parts of their own former country, over whose fate as a whole entity they no longer have exclusive control. Or any control at all. Well see how the individualistic westerners will fare when confronted with the collectivist foreigners in the country ruled by detached and indifferent technocratic elite. Smug cosmopolites are in for the big surprise if they think they will enjoy the same comfortable retirement plan their parents and grandparents had by coasting on the backs of docile foreign labor force at the time when something was actually being produced in their countries instead of being offshored to Asia.

>>19732828
this. too much dan carlin

>>19731625
Thanks for the recomendation ill read this next
Tbf spengler (unlike marx) does not advocate any change to society based on his predictions. He just describes how civilizations behave

>>19730996
ctrl + f: xi jinping = no matches

and I thought my jokes were bad

>>19740298
And what is your solution to all this? Strict ethnocentric authoritarianism and six meter walls around each state with heavy security forces. East Berlin for everyone forever?

Or do you advocate elevating the root causes of all these problems? Ethno states don’t do that.

>>19740878
There’s no easy solution. Mine would be something along the lines of “melting pot”. Right now European Muslims reject liberal culture, Western social norms, democracy, European languages, etc. in favor of Islamist government and Islamic culture. Somehow, they must be made to accept Western culture. I read that the Germans succeeded to this in some degree with Syrian refugees by forcing them to learn German, ensuring no Syrian ethnic enclaves/ghettos developed, etc. That is the solution.

>>19738285
>>19738326
Good analysis. Thanks.

>>19740878
>elevating
I spelled alleviating, damnit.

>>19740944
Well letting genuine democracy develop would be a good start too.

>>19741347
Western Europe is not America, they have legitimate democracies. The challenge is convincing the European Muslims that democracy is better than the caliphate they crave.

>>19741365
Parliamentary democracy is cheap shit. The people of France told Macron to gtfo and he’s still there.

The people of the UK all wanted Corbyn’s agenda and they get stuck with the worst politician, well, in a series of terrible politicians. Neoliberalism has the world in a chokehold. Representative democracy isn’t working. We must replace it with Direct Democracy

>>19740944
This could only work if the culture and morality of this melting pot woould have something to offer, beyond laissez faire approach and materialism, often mingled with insanity.
One radical approach would be to embrace the islamic principles without arabizing ourselves, and create new culture fusing some elements of West and East alike, like Ottomans attempted to do after conquering the Constantinople and proclaiming themselves heirs to the Roman/Byzantine empire. They could never pull this off because they were too politically invested in the Middle East and Africa. But perhaps Europeans could repeat the trick with christianity. They nevertheless managed to hold their multiethnic and multicultural empire for hundreds of years coexisting with christians and jews in millet system. Islam is in its core civnat, so it could serve to defuse ethnic tensions by giving various people common base of shared values. Its adjacent to christianity, therefore not alien to Europeans like asian systems and, being the existing and vital religion doesnt need to be invented from the scratch and imposed top down. Its approachable for the normies and midwits, having simple tenets and a versatile role model in Muhammad.
Anyway, to pull off something like this it would require both vision and determination that seem to be lacking among politicians or those who pull the strings behind the scene. But it would be better than to be culturally obliterated by real extremists that hate the West.

>>19741383
Democracy is a 20th century type beat. It may survive in name only. Our age won't be a democratic one, I'm sure.

>>19738285
>the traditional culture was smashed into atoms during the Cultural Revolution
Big disagree. This is mostly a narrative used by Conservatives to justify supporting Taiwan over the Mainland. Taiwan is the "real China" because it has Protestantism, LGBT, and Parliamentary Democracy, etc etc etc.

The Chinese, and all Asians, have very firm senses of ethnic self-hood. Contrast this with Westerners who, for the past 1,400~ years, have defined themselves by adherence to arbitrary postulates enforced upon them from foreign elites. To a Westerner, a change in the postulates is a change in selfhood. But to a Chink, a change in postulates is just Chinks doing something else. It's additive, not subtractive. Lacking a theory of transcendent legal bodies, the Oriental instead sees things by what is shared. There is no conflict between being a Communist and a Buddhist in the Chinese mind as these are additives to the Chinese whole, not collections of postulates competing for space. Communism and Buddhism add to China, they don't direct it. China is China, it's always going to be. There's an enormous amount of media to support this during the Cultural Revolution, where everyone from Mao down got that this was all a facade. Temples becoming "Communist Study Halls", and the local CCP Commissar prays there.

The Chinese thus use these different religions and ideologies as conversations to discuss the universe, which as a whole is too big to talk about at once. Taoism for health, wealth, and longevity, Buddhism for spiritual enlightenment, Confucianism for moral cultivation and societal harmony, etc. Communism, then, is an addition to China. What does it add? A historical causal progression, where before Chinese thought had only ever had a correlative progression. In essence, Communism is used by the Chinese to have some capacity to predict the future causally as opposed to correlatively.

>>19741574
>There is no conflict between being a Communist and a Buddhist in the Chinese mind
The CCP discourages religion, including Buddhism, and follows a policy of atheism. Literally what are you talking about?

>>19740878
>East Berlin for everyone forever?
It wouldn´t be east Berlin, it would be west Berlin. There is a huge difference. Think about it for a moment and you will see that.
> I read that the Germans succeeded to this in some degree with Syrian refugees by forcing them to learn German
You´ve read something wrong or exaggerated. Most do not integrate in a way that will work for the future. A lot do work, work the locals don´t want to do. I know a bakery where an afghan works and the germans like the stuff no less than before. But that doesn´t change the overall situation: the overall economical and social situation of syrians and afghans is almost exactly like that of the turks 59 years ago and there are no indications, that their developement will differ. I don´t know where you get your informations from, but german newspapers have lost their will to report precisely about the developements here. I would recommend non german news reporting from inside germany about it, if you are interested in what happens here.

>>19731059
Bezos is a crassus, making a mint off being a predator capitalist. Now just need him to get captured during a military campaign in Iran and have molten gold poured down his throat.

>>19741595
You mean the same CCP that gives billions of dollars worth of money to Buddhist, Confucian, Taoist, and Muslim organizations, encourages religious practice, and makes defending Chinese religion from Western Atheism an enormous party platform? Well, I look at what they do, and use that to synthesize ideas about them.

>>19741412
Actual democracy is direct democracy. Statists have been making their mistakes and you proclaim that we’ll keep doing that in the next “age”. No change when it’s clearly called for? There won’t be an “age”. Post-humanity won’t be written about.

>>19730996
It was supposed to trump

YA ESTÁ AQUÍ...

>>19731666
>The US imperial phase has been blanketing us in so many subtle thin layers over the decades, you simply don’t notice that we’ve been empire your whole life. Our pretorian guard assassinated a president and got away with it. We’ve been at war for over twenty years now. There is no functional democratic process, that’s a sham. We’re increasingly a security state. The republic is long gone.

You are very incorrect. The republic is on its last legs but it's still functionally there. We'll know the empire is in full swing when they don't bother holding elections at all. Or, rather, when the Senate and the House and the courts switch to being purely advisory roles for the President, who has supreme power.

The United States is where Rome was in the 1st or 2nd Century BC. It has acquired imperial territory and imperial control but it is not formally an empire because it lacks an emperor. It lacks the Caesar. It lacks Augustus. It lacks one man from whom all power flows, and to whom everyone else must answer. When America has that, then it will be a true empire.

i hope so

>>19743034
>It lacks the Caesar. It lacks Augustus. It lacks one man from whom all power flows, and to whom everyone else must answer. When America has that, then it will be a true empire.

I think it was discovered a long time ago 1000 ceasers united as one are better than 1.

>>19730996
Already came and went, we just fucked it up

>>19743526
I can’t believe a man like that was wasted on the white race. Had he been of a superior race like the Arabs he would have won.

>>19743640
Ah yes Arabs, the superior race, which is why they are civilizationally stuck in the Middle Ages and live in shit and leech off Europe.

>>19743647
*conquering Europe
You see a race and a culture stronger than our Western one and despise it because it's not what you think a successful culture looks like.

>>19743647
These bozos want a return to the sort of governance

>>19731383
>this time we can trust the jew!

>>19743653
Conquering? Which is why you live in ghettos and in poverty? Which is why your subhuman ape IQ youth resorts to criminality, drug trade, and haram lifestyle? You cannot just use words randomly. Conquering is military invasion and occupation- you know, like when we colonized you. You will cope, Shaheen. I shit all over your culture and religion.

>>19741667
I agree with you. I wasn't saying that like it was all a good thing.

a lot of coping gwailou ITT

>>19731322
Merkel and Schröder have been the worst leader in german history and Scholz is not looking better.
>>19732462
You forgot the US and I agree but still it was Merkels message that opened the gates, all this shit could have been prevented if she joined Orban and told the migrants to fuck off.

>>19743640
>>19743653
arabs are cattle, you know its true

>>19731625
You really have to admire Popper for being consistently wrong about everything. The sheer odds of that are mind-boggling.

>>19731322
Yeah, it's sad that so many people hate Merkel. She literally saved Germany.

>>19745587
>killed nuclear
>imported millions of shitskins
What did she save exactly?

>>19731040
two more centuries

>>19731322
Germany got lucky with their leaders in the 20th century
>Adolf Hitler
>Konrad Adenauer
>Helmut Kohl
although 3 per century is pretty good. many nations go generations without even a single great leader

>>19731059
Just as a reminder

>>19731544
>There is a reason the most successful country on Earth right now, China,

they´re only succesful because the US was selling them technology and industry for cheap, fuck the ccp you illiterate bastard

>>19733046
remember that you have to cross like five rubicons before seizing power

https://graymirror.substack.com/p/the-great-coup-of-2021

>>19743640
>Had he been of a superior race like the Arabs

lol

>>19741395
Hello Dugin hows the weather in Russia?

>>19746267
The patriarchal powered Islam is like Man as a gender unionizing against the chaotic free market forces of womandom at large

It seems many of you mistakenly believe that China is going to eclipse the West.
Let me be perfectly clear: CHINA IS BARRELLING FULL-STEAM AHEAD DOWN A DEAD END PATH

China specced heavily into the authoritative surveillance state path. This was a mistake. What you must realize is that the end of an epoch is at hand: nation-states will soon be history. Of course, ethnic affiliations and groupings of such kinds will remain, but the all-encompassing state of the type China is becoming is an evolutionary dead-end.

China's economy is a sham. Corruption is at obscene levels and the centralized financial policy is absurdly ineffective. The problem that many fail to comprehend is that the Chinese are fiercely proud of their supposed superiority over foreign barbarians and are all too willing to violently impose themselves upon the world, if it only give them the opportunity to do so.

The West is dying, and from its grave will grow a new order: a more meritocratic order, less forgiving of personal faults, more competitive, less tolerant, more merciless in its cold application of first principles.

Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

>>19731625
based jewish mont pelerin pedophile CIA glownigger globalist shill

>>19746903
>a more meritocratic order, less forgiving of personal faults, more competitive, less tolerant, more merciless in its cold application of first principles.

so more like china?

>>19746589
Based schizo poster

people think china will dominate in the future


lol

>>19747531

>>19747541

>>19747544

>>19744006
>>19745571
Interesting copes.

>>19747564
>arabs are too beta to conquer by force, they have to get help from european liberals to settle in new land and even then, they´re dirt poor and working in low income jobs or go full welfare

>>19746903
Have you read The Sovereign Individual?

>>19747531
>80 years predictions
>>19747541
>growth is finite!
>>19747544
>still better than the West
>>19747549
>forgot about OBOR

Try harder next time white boy

>>19747715
i don´t need to try harder, Western Civilization conquered (via ideology) China in 1949

>>19730996
No, not if you want a ruler at the head.

Even the emperors eventually became military chiefs. It's up to us to invent the future.

>>19747609
1. You keep showing old maps, old empires. Arabs are conquering Europe NOW.
2. What does it matter if they won via your people's stupidity? A victory is a victory.

>>19747956
you´re a special breed of stupid that doesn´t like to read, aren´t you? you´re not conquering shit, your people are just leeches of the european liberals

>>19747970
You're seething, but you can't refute that whites are losing and Arabs are winning. How much longer will Europe be majority White? Not much longer, I think. We won.

>>19747977
my smile in my face when europe will reconquer north africa and the middle east when the liberals are gone, remember that we also have nukes ;)

>>19747983
Again with the old maps lol.
>europe will reconquer north africa and the middle east when the liberals are gone
Try reconquering Paris or Berlin first.

>>19747985
what´s the problem nafri? afraid of the eternal recurrence? ;)

>>19748006
>He STILL keeps posting old maps
This is embarrassing anon, post something recent to show that you guys aren't finished.
There will be no Reconquista 2.0, you guys are a defeated, cucked race who will lose their homelands for good. Everything from Sweden to Somalia will be Arab land.

>>19748026
a nuke over mecca and medina will certainly help stabilize the region, no more roaches and terrorism

>>19747970
>you´re a special breed of stupid that doesn´t like to read, aren´t you? you´re not conquering shit, your people are just leeches of the european liberals
This likely literally is a quality of autism, someone obssesed with their understanding of rules.
Conquering is conquering, winning is winning. Like playing basketball and you lost 100- 101 but the score doesn't matter because your opponent won the game with a 1 point free throw and you think 3 pointers are cooler.

Your basis for what constitutes conquering is arbitrary. Wheather it's nukes or mines or guerilla or psychological or monetary or tanks or bayonets or rocks or poison, territory, women and materials are being captured.

>>19748287
>Wheather it's nukes or mines or guerilla or psychological or monetary or tanks or bayonets or rocks or poison, territory, women and materials are being captured.

you´re just slaves of the european boomer bureaucrat establishment, who are you kidding? you bunch of retarded shitskins

spengler is a glorified fortune teller

>>19735845
Polish thinkers seem underrated and are many times genuine gems, this is something I'm realizing only now while being Polish.

Btw, is Main Currents of Marxism as good as people say?

>>19744006
>Shaheen
Lol why do you use a Persian name to insult an Arab?

>>19748026
Dunecoons can't even win against themselves. They've been fighting the Syrian Civil War for ten years. Ten fucking years, and it caused thousands of fighting age men to flee to Europe like the dickless faggots they are, to pretend to act macho in a well-constructed society they could never create, fleeing a war they could never win .

>>19746903
>It seems many of you mistakenly believe that China is going to eclipse the West.
>Let me be perfectly clear: CHINA IS BARRELLING FULL-STEAM AHEAD DOWN A DEAD END PATH

>>19748287
Shitskins are literally modern day slave imports. Modern capitalism has outpaced the need for traditional slavery, but replaced it with a novel approach where humans become loose commodities. Shitskins are imported by the west to bolster aging populations, exclusively because the elite capitalist class needs a supply of wageslaves which locals increasingly don't want to be.
If you study how most shitskin ghettos in France, Germany, or elsewhere came about, it always begins with
>a factory needs wageslaves
>shitskins come in as "guest workers"
>the factory shuts down, suddenly shitskins are out of the job, don't leave, and need public housing projects
I've studied how many "ethnic" communities in France form. Even if many shitskins there today weren't involved, this is how their community was created in the 80s or 90s. There's almost always an abandoned factory nearby.
It's a very Faustain, machine-thinking approach to slavery.
Imagine being proud of this, because by rule of sociology, random units from these ghettos always end up folding into regular society and can buy a house. You don't even get to participate in the golden age of wages, back in the 60s and 70s and 80s. Productivity has measurably outpaced wages, which have not moved since inflation.

>>19749575
>source: quora

>>19748026
>Everything from Sweden to Somalia will be Arab land
how can that be when blacks will breed all the arab women?

>>19749591
>hmm i dont like that source
at least read the fucking thing

>>19731090
the bear and the bull

>>19731059
I'm always curious by posts like this
If you think modern figures are like Romans just before Caesar, then who would somebody like Hitler be equivalent to?

>>19733874
It also reached levels of depravity that would make you vomit on the spot. People were literally abandoning healthy babies, because they couldn't be bothered to look after them. Early Christians picked up those babies and cared for them along with the poor in general, even at the risk of exposing themselves and being executed. This probably contributed to the very high conversion rates in the first few centuries, since they were more brave and benevolent than the state religion.
If there's anything to look forward to, it is the point things get so bad that faith is rekindled and people begin to form a moral foundation again. IIRC Spengler thought the faith of the future would be something like Dostoevsky's. Then again, the fastest growing religion right now is Islam, so maybe it will be some kind of Salafist offshoot. In any case, it's the collapse of empire when heroes are made.

>>19730996
He already arrived.

He's decided not to lead you out of the darkness because none of you deserve it. Get fucked

>>19749625
>who would somebody like Hitler be equivalent to?

Drumpf, of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lofXOvR0zdE

>>19750101
Of course, none of that happened and is just propaganda made up centuries later. Not that you'd know because you've never read anything about this subject.

Anyways, Spengler's thesis on what the future of Faustian religion would be like is "Gothic Christianity 2.0": a rigid adherence maintenance of society using older religious ideas to shore up the political ideologies of the time that we, currently, are in. So, Yeshua Bar Yosef the #WOKE brown Communist Rabbi who was murdered by the evil Anti-Semitic White Supremacist KKK Roman NAZI Empire, pray to him so that Israel might receive another ten trillion dollars in aid. Yes, this means that convincing everyone to vote for Nigger Pope won't bring back the BASED Medieval period, that ship has sailed and isn't coming back. Islam is dead in the water, which is why it's tanking globally; ironically, this is really just Faustian Man avenging Apollonian Man's murder.

The world either ends with Faustian Man nuking the planet and wiping out all life, or Faustian Man swallowing the globe and dying. Abrahamic Religion will be long gone by the time that this happens. We already see it today with the fastest growing Abrahamic group being Seventh Day Adventists, and even then that's just because they're at the forefront of converting Africans and South Americans to Liberalism.

>>19750989
>Islam is dead in the water, which is why it's tanking globally
You're just making stuff up now

>>19751094
No seriously, I dislike Islam so I say it is tanking to make myself feel better. If I were to accurately perceive how the world really is I would likely have a panic attack

>>19731625
The Early Life of Karl Popper