/lit/ - Literature

>>19723974

>>19723974
Any of you write?

Read Cradle!

King of /sffg/.

Simple as.

how does the Age of Madness trilogy compare to First Law?

>>19724024
What's the point of idolizing him if he doesn't browse this place

>>19724046
Does it trouble you?

>he doesn't browse this place
Will someone tell her?

>>19724056
Holy Based.

Truth Shines, Bakkerchads.

>>19724031
Worse. The characters aren't near so interesting and the flaws are very on the nose. Rikke is a utterly shit character, Savine is just a way less interesting Glokta, and there is nothing to fill the gap of Logan/his dozen.

If First Law was a 7/10, then AoM is something like a 4/10.

>>19724068
Does it have a nice conclusion for all the Bayaz shenanigans at least?

>>19724000
Checked and that would actually be impressive given that a full set is worth several thousand at this point.
>mfw I left my hardcover copy of TGO in my college dorm freebin after finishing it

>>19723409
Splendid. This is likely going to be my favorite book in the Dune saga.

sorry not book but is the training like this in the books too?
>throw all the sleeping young boys without weapons and training, mostly orphans, in a fucking swamp full of deadly monsters at every corner, literally pure rng, every single one of them could have died
>"it's a numbers game"
>didn't even try to mutate the countless of boys that died in that swamp
>"witchers, are dying out"
are they retarded?

>>19724143
>>>/tv/

>>19724147
i'm asking if it's the same in the books

>>19724143
>>19724151

Not a /lit/ or /sffg/ discussion, so fuck off.

>>19724154
kill yourself nigger

What is a prequisite for a well written fantasy/sci-fi world in your opinion?

>>19724182
I accept your defeat.

>>19724143
>are they retarded?
No, but you are.

>>19724197
shut the fuck up kike

>>19724191
that wasn't me
>>19724197
No I'm not, but you might be one.

>>19724206
>No you!
As expected from a degenerate who watchers anime.

it's up
The king of /sffg/ blessed us today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1kbpjcXsqM

>>19724209
it's not anime

>>19724221
cope

>>19724221
>it's not anime
lol

Every single male in Bakker's work has gay sex at one point or another, and at the same time Bakker is supportive of homos. Is Bakker secretly a fag?

>>19724238
he's hard gay not soft gay

>>19724238
No, not really.

>>19724189
In terms of fantasy, it's Proper/interesting Theology/Cosmology.
Far as i see it, and a common pattern i have observed in good fantasy novels is that authors often structurally build them up, in a manner where they construct a paradigm, within which all events within the universe take place. Said theological and cosmological structures generate a system which can be used to select fundamental desires/truths/opinions which can work as a foundation of multitude of forces and their motivations, which in itself creates a multi-faceted yet structurally intertwined dynamic between various characters/organisations/agents within the book. At the same time it is important that said true order to not be explicitly revealed, instead it should be hinted at and concealed in more typical heroic activities. In that manner reader will always get a hunch that something else is involved, you basically masturbate reader's imaginative pattern seeking and make her/him experience little orgasms along the line through little revelations. These revelations also slowly increase weight and value of characters involved, and by it's creeping gradual nature, also creeps into reader's own evaluation. Often fantasy novels go to shit if they continue after revelation of the mystical cosmology, instead it fantasy novels should never completely reveal it, and set it's slow yet unending chain of revelations as a parallel and set motion to main plot.

>>19724289
Nice blog post

>>19724234
Faggot

How can I build my world without any exposition dumps? The story takes place within one homogenous society with no outsiders so the characters giving each other a historical lesson makes no sense.

>>19724215
I'll try to catch up on Stormlight asap after finishing Mistborn. Wait fuck I still had to do Warbreaker before that.

>>19724317
Nobody cares. Fuck off to /wg/.

>>19724317
Make rival factions within said society, add a third secret society working to undo both of them, with origins in distant past

>>19724238
>a fag
no, not really
>a hard gay
yes, the hardest of gays

>>19724321
Kill yourself animenigger

Moogy is back, and he's not happy.

Is sucking on Khazar milkers Based or Pozzed?

>>19724373
Based if you kill the bitch afterwards, pozzed if not.

Would fuck Abigail Shapiro Anyways.

This is related to fantasy, because it is my fantasy.

>>19724317
What's wrong with exposition dumps?

>>19724402
They are bad writing.

>>19724404
Says who?

>>19724409
People with a good taste.

This may be the worst /sffg/ thread I’ve ever seen, and I (alas) have been reading this thread every day for years.

>>19724402
Nothing, if you don't mind writing to a much smaller audience than you would otherwise have gotten if your novel didn't read like a history textbook.

This may be the best /sffg/ thread I’ve ever seen, very non-pozzed and very non-unbased

>>19724031
It retells the french revolution and all the MCs are spiraling downwards, screwing eachother as hard as they can. More depressing than gritty/fun/subversive.

https://youtu.be/VrIxDsu2zoY
Does anyone know Mike's Book Reviews? I realized his PO box is near my house. I also realized the transition effect on his video intros display a star of david. Both these findings are particularly unusual.

Enjoy your vacation, Moogy.

>>19724019
>sees image file name
The plural form of LEGO is simply LEGO. There’s no “s”.

>>19724486
The big difference is the lack of neat character arcs, as it takes place over a couple of years, full of realpolitiking and relationship fallouts. Too real perhaps.

>>19724019
My post here probably comes across as a bit annoying >>19724548. Anyways, I am curious to learn more about Cradle though.

>>19724548
No, not really.

>>19724511

>>19724548
>not the patricians LEGI

How’s the new Abercrombie book? Has he improved as a writer?

>>19724511
basèd

>>19724556
progressive western fantasy larping as an eastern progression fantasy

>>19724556
It's fun there's nothing profound about it.

>>19724556
I tried the Cradle after the never ending shilling.

Don't bother, it's shit.

>>19724755
you will never be a gold

>>19724755
Unironically this.

So outside of the first law first three books...the rest in the world aren't worth looking at ?
Fug. Time to find something else. Finished Malazan, bakker, and now first law.

Anyone know of any good fantasy or sci-fi books that focus on or deal with mafias/mobs/yakuza-like organizations?

im working on short stories, heres one i made just now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xx14T2sFY
any feedback would be appreciated.

>>19724873
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_City_(novel)
good I have no idea but there's this

>>19724895
>>>/lit/wg/

>>19724937
thank you, i have gay aids.

>>19724873
Neon Harvest

>>19724404
Genuine question but why are they bad? If you place them in a good spot that doesn't take away from the flow of the book it should be fine?

>finally check my 2021 books read
>10 less books than 2020 but over 2000 more pages read

Bakker? I hardly knew her!

>>19725128
no god series WHEN

>>19725110
Tolkien tried to do that and it sucked ass.

>>19725195
where's your novel

>>19725214
Not an argument.

>>19725110
Contemporary media consumers and creators are terrified of breaking immersion. People don't want to be told stories, they want to the story to completely consume them and leave their miserable lives behind

>>19725274
lol

>>19724088
No. Its does the shadow war between a handful of magic users thing waaay worse too. Nothing really changes, we just get a bunch of shitty drama between shitty characters

I got filtered by stand upon Zanzibar and I'm ok to admit it. Fuck that writing style.

Any fantasy stories about exploring dungeons? Even a oneshot? I'm looking for inspiration for my own works.

>>19725806
Cradle #5 and #10 to be very honest.

What am I in for?

>>19725806
Just make a fucking video game jesus christ

>>19724870
Time to get into Sanderson, there's quite a lot to read before Stormlight Archive. First finish Elantris, the first Mistborn trilogy and Warbreaker.

>>19725806
I'll write one when I get home from work.

>>19724870
Where'd you get that idea? The series gets better after the original trilogy.

>>19724870
Common opinion is that his books keep getting better and better. Though nothing beats taking the piss out of epic fantasy imo.

>>19723974
Trying to figure out what to read next and I'm torn between Dune (which I read as a teenager and remember little of) and Revelation Space which sounds like it could be pretty good. What should I go with?

>>19726486
Neither. Read Radix

>>19726495
>Radix
bruh, not super helpful. Also, wtf is this revue?

>>19726495
>>19726507
Actually, I think I will check out Radix. Thanks Anon!

the virgin inriltas vs the chad maithanet

>>19726771
K I N O
I
N
O

Maithanet was a wasted character. It's a shame we didn't get to see the human side of more half-Dunyains

>>19724031
dog shit, except for Prince Orso

>>19726964
What, didn't you like Leo being gay? Did you notice how he keeps catching himself staring at his handsome friend? Because he's gay? Do you get it? Isn't it subtle? He's gay!

I've been thinking of writing sword and sorcery with the twist that instead of exotic priestesses and shit it's sexy twinks and femboys and so on. I think the market is ready for it.

>>19727077
You go right on ahead.

>>19727077
Tell me more.

>>19727187
Like, you know, the sacrifice that the big strong barely dressed hero has to rescue could be a beautiful boy instead of a disgusting femoid. I'm still at the development stage right now.

>>19725835
isn't this shit? it's what marked the ending of the montly reading group a couple years ago iirc

>>19725806
>>19726314
https://ghostbin.com/HOsO9

Any opinions on this? Never really tried just writing "fiction" before, but I love OSR and dungeoncrawls. Unfinished because I need sleep.

>>19727822
It never ended, it's just not in the thread now. It was never really alive in the thread anyway.

Lurker here, who's this bakker guy and somebody shill me his books please

>>19727925
didn't it stop for several months at least? the only options to read had have a winter theme because it was december or something and Ice got chosen but people didn't like it and they stopped

>>19727948
Can you make it so that they have small worthless dicks at least? One thing worse than a woman is one with a dick that runs around wanting to use it.

>>19727966
>>19727196
Whoops

Any good fantasy Youtubers? Daniel Greene has turned shit.

>>19725123
Far from enough spurting out and coughing up of blood. God, I hate ISSTH.

>>19728179
Critical Dragon and Philip Chase talking about Malazan

>>19727969
The male damsels will of course be submissive, or made to submit by the might of the barbarian hero.

>>19724453
Read the old archived threads instead of spending time in nu-/sffg/.

>>19728193
Basically Steven Erikson talking about Steven Erikson...

and I love it

>>19725806
This is something I've wondered about. DnD and a lot of /tg/ stuff tends to be built on the concept of dungeon crawling, but I can't recall much, if any, stories actually focusing on such an endeavor. Sure, you get the occasional story about a tomb or ancient temple being plundered, but the archetypal "band of adventurers plunging into a dungeon filled with traps and enemies" seems to not have any basis in fiction, far as I'm aware.

Did anyone else get filtered by the 3rd Dune book (Children of Dune)? The story felt underwhelming, with nothing of importance happening really and there were vague religious undertones in every dialogue involving the twins.
The 4th one again didn't filter me nearly as bad.

Can you suggest me any books that bind a nice story with interesting social commentary/political concepts/ethics? In the same manner 1984 does it for example.

>>19728585
>Can you suggest me any books that bind a nice story with interesting social commentary/political concepts/ethics?
Yes.

>>19728597
Will you also post these suggestions then?

>>19728585
>Did anyone else get filtered by the 3rd Dune book (Children of Dune)?

I absolutely did, it was my least favorite of the first 4 Frank books. The first half of Children was a huge slog - the second half, which was more Leto focuses, wasn't bad, but still... I actually just finished God Emperor. Taking a little break now reading some non-fiction but I plan to jump into Heretics soon.

>interesting social commentary/political concepts/ethics? In the same manner 1984 does it for example.

Brave New World is a solid answer but maybe you've already read that. I would also recommend The Dispossed by Le Guin, it's basically a 'Capitalism vs. Socialism' book. Honestly any Le Guin sci-fi is going to have some social commentary.

>>19728430
>the occasional story about a tomb or ancient temple being plundered
Such as?

>>19728616
Brave new world has absolute dogshit writing, though.

>>19728616
>that pic
lmao

Yes I've read Brave New world, fahrenheit and animal farm.
Ill take a look at the book you suggested, thanks anon.

>>19728630
It was okay, Fahrenheit was even worse imo, had only a few redeeming parts.

>>19728630
Maybe, I don't remember, but the ideas sure stick out. we're in /sffg/, sure I want good writing but I'm here for the ideas when it comes to sci-fi and I'm willing to deal with subpar writing. It's why I give PKD a pass on his writing.

>>19728635
Fahrenheit 451 is literally old man yells at cloud tier trash, but it appeals to the boomer fantasy so that's why it's a "classic".

>>19728635
>>19728644
Having good ideas is something to be praised, but combining those with good structure and decent prose is another altogether. Brave New world does a massive exposition dump in its first chapter. It reads like a scientific article. Literal shit to my eyes. Whereas Orwell does a pretty decent Job with 1984 feeding us information little by little and in context.

>>19728635
Another popular book in the Brave New World / Animal Farm / F-451 / 1984 grouping is We by Zamyatin. I have never read it so I can't comment. From the Wiki

>The novel describes a world of harmony and conformity within a united totalitarian state. It influenced the emergence of dystopia as a literary genre. George Orwell claimed that Aldous Huxley's 1931 Brave New World must be partly derived from We,[3] but Huxley denied this.

>>19728659
>Brave New world does a massive exposition dump in its first chapter. It reads like a scientific article. Literal shit to my eyes.

that's just your opinion, man. I like exposition dumps. I read Neal Stephenson for fun. I work as an electrical engineer for a living. I honestly and unironically enjoy reading manuals. Ted Chiang's prose? *chefs kiss*

>>19728659
I remember just skipping the first chapter because the exposition dump was so tedious to me.

>>19728672
Sounds really interesting, will definitely read this one.

>>19728430
Conan finds himself exploring (or at least breaking out of) mysterious dungeons now and then. In "Rogues in the House" he even ends up with a small party, but I think "The Scarlet Citadel" features perhaps the quintessential dungeon crawl.

>>19727948
No, it was continuous. The main reason it stopped was because the anon who did everything in the thread for it decided that the end of the year was as good a time as any for him to move on to other matters.

>>19728616
Post more dune memes.

>>19724056
so which one is supposed to be bakker?

>>19724238
he's a leaf. what do you think?

>>19728624
See >>19728830
Conan is probably the closest I can think of when it comes to that kind of adventuring, and maybe the occasional Clark Ashton Smith story.

What's dystopian about 1984? Winston loves big brother. You're not a bigot are you?

>>19727939
Canadian almost-philosopher guy who writes Second Apocalypse, an incredibly edgy but well written soon-to-be sequence of three series(Prince of Nothing, Aspect Emperor and The No-God).

As for shilling, think of a mix between LoTR, Dune, Blood Meridian, Berserk, the Cthulhu Mythos and the First Crusade. It's basically about the world 2000 years after the end, the rise to power of a psychopathic monk and much more.
Excpect amazing prose and great thinking material.

>>19729441
>almost-philosopher
kek

>soon-to-be sequence of three series
now why in the hell would you say that? Do you know something we don't know? Are you Bakker himself? Truth shines

>>19728430
>>19729248
Clark Ashton Smith is a good suggestion, I'm specifically thinking of:
>The Tale of Satampra Zeiros
>Abominations of Yondo (his single best)
>I think "Master of the Crabs" too

>>19729040
The first post is Bakker. The second is also Bakker attempting to explain his first post.

>>19724319
read Warbreaker first

>>19724056
>contrives entirely new terms for extremely simple notions
>condescends on people for not understanding him
absolute chad move

>>19729679
I was here that day, he was only condescending because the guys was extremely rude to him.

>>19724056
will he ever come back to finish the No God series? or will he forever bask in the glory of that moment of shitting on some random anons?

>>19729693
the man is obviously no imbecile but to be frank "sense making apparatus" on its own is worthy of ridicule. that, and "heuristic collapsing into a decision"

Interested in starting dune. Can anyone give me their ratings for each book? Just curious for how it holds up throughout the series.

>>19729714
In order of what I liked the most to least:
Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Dune Messiah
Chapterhouse Dune
Heretics of Dune
Children of Dune
Frank Herbert's books are all pretty decent. I think I might have liked Heretics and Chapterhouse more if that part of the story had finished but alas... Do not read his son's books at all.

>>19729714
obligatory chart..

>>19729745
kek thanks anon
>>19729734
that's cool the fourth book is so liked. Thanks.

>>19729734
>>19729745
Are Brian's books actually that bad or people are just regurgitating a meme? Are they pure fanfiction or based on Herbert's notes?

>>19729770
Never showed what the "notes" are and they fuck up the lore. Don't trust anything from the butlerian jihad, it's clearly not what Dune was talking about and it's pure fanfiction.

>>19729770
I honestly have no idea, I've never read Brian's book but have always wanted to give at least one a try since people shit on them so hard. From my understanding, the problems are that a) his writing is bad ; b) he completely fucked something up which had such great lore and world-building already ; c) they are less philosophical and more action oriented

>>19729770
Funny you ask
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6mF0HtQC18M

>>19729770
If "Brian's" books were good, he would have his own series instead of tormenting his father's memory.

>>19723974
Imager, Imager Portfolio #1 - L.E. Modesitt (2009)

This is a social science fantasy magic school spy thriller. That isn't entirely accurate, though it's close enough to get a general idea. Modesitt has a contentious writing style and there are many valid criticisms about what he does with his books and series, but I don't have any interest in arguing the matter. This is the sort of book, as his are in general, where you read it for how it makes you feel. If that doesn't work for you, then I advise against reading his works. There isn't really much of a plot, yet it isn't literary in any way. Imager is written in first person, but there's minimal inner life explored and emotional experiences are put aside for a cool, reasoned, rationality. The characters are exemplified by a couple personal traits at best. So what is there then? The first 15% covers the protagonist's life from 12-24 years old. The other 85% covers his daily life over a relatively small span of time.

The setting is something like a Florentine Republic government with French cultural references that has early Victorian Era technology set on an Australia-like continent, at least in terms of size. They have steam powered trains, various sorts of guns, warships, but not automobiles or electricity. For the most part terms are altered as to not be the same as their real world counterparts, which depending on your preferences regarding neologisms, may be annoying, but I didn't mind. Each chapter starts with an epigraph, usually a sentence long. I found them to generally be moderately amusing. There's a romance subplot, but it doesn't progress beyond kissing, of which there's a lot. She doesn't state that pre-marital sex is unacceptable, but it's very close to that. The school has a lot of lecturing about various subjects, which range from comparative religion and government, to economics, sociology, medicine, philosophy, and much else.

The magic system is inherent, compensatory, not quite equivalent exchange, and at will. The imagers imagine stuff and it happens, within the limitations of their personal power and the vague rules that govern reality. By the end of the book it remains relatively limited in practice, but its theoretical usage is almost unlimited. The briefly mentioned stories of the past, which are apparently covered by later books in this series, note its previous genocidal and unrestrained usage. It's stated that a full third of the imagers die during the course of their training. The more talented they are, the more likely they're to die early. Imagination can be a very dangerous power in the wrong minds. This is all treated rather matter-of-factly. The institution itself is like a cross between an university, an intelligence agency, and a government official protection service.

Does this book deserve its rating?
I don't know and I don't care.
Overly questioning it may ruin my enjoyment.
I'd rather not do that.
Rating: 4/5

>>19725333
Being able to perfectly visualize a story and become immersed in it is a sign of well-written, vivid storytelling. I can't imagine why you'd try to cast this as bad unless you're the type of NPC totally unable to visualize what you read.

Prose writer supreme
makes pussy cream

>>19729848
What keeps you going man? Be honest and answer.

>>19730009
Keeps me going in what sense?

>>19729990
A bleeding infected wound made of inside out dick is not a pussy.

>>19730033
How many /sffg/ books have you already read? I honestly commend you for going through so much trash just to review it.

>>19730047
>How many /sffg/ books have you already read?
That depends since how long you mean and various other definitional issues. I've read several hundreds of SFF books in my lifetime. I've read 3 this year.

>I honestly commend you for going through so much trash just to review it.
I write what I do because I feel like doing so and no other reason. When I don't feel like doing so I'll stop. I don't consider most of it trash. 4/5 is certainly not a trash score. I enjoy what I enjoy and I don't have any pretensions about that.

>>19730065
I wasn't saying that book in particular was trash, which i never read btw, but the fact that you go through so many you must necessarily encounter bad books.

>>19724238
Akka doesn't, and Bakker says that's the character most like him.

Maybe Bakker is saying everyone else is a fag.

>>19730078
Well, yes, there are a number of 1 and 2 star books I've written stuff about and can be easily sorted on my GR account and less easily seen browsing through the archive.

>>19730099
Can you link it? Also, what are the worst books you've read so far?

>>19730110
Can I link my Goodreads account? No, it isn't viewable by anyone without a Goodreads account and that would defeat the point of having the group being non-public for privacy reasons because I'm either friends with or following just about everyone in the group depending on what I last got around to doing so for the most recent members. You'll have to join the group, which I'm the founder of, to see my account. That's one of the reasons why I also post what I write in the thread. That can be see here: >>/lit/?task=search2&search_tripcode=sffg
This doesn't have all of what I've written by any means though.

As for the worst, that's two basic categories for me. The worst written and the ones that have made me the angriest after having read them. 1 stars are basically only ones that have enraged me in some way. 2 stars are those that I really just didn't enjoy. So, in some ways the 1 stars may be "better" than the 2 stars, but not for me.

Here are some of the worst rated I've written about:
>>/lit/thread/S17444008#p17444531
>>/lit/thread/S16880638#p16883447
>>/lit/thread/S17038393#p17051372
>>/lit/thread/S16653755#p16657636

>>19725806
>>/lit/thread/S13955200#p13969815

Note: this was before I was using the sffg tripcode

No God and Black Seeds

>>19729770
Kevin J Anderson is reason enough not to read them

I found this to be quite boring. Should I continue with the series or find another sci-fi book or series to read?

>>19730205
Find another.

The only Asimov I remember reading is Caves of Steel. Ask me something.

>>19729770
I've read Paul of Dune and its pure shlock

>>19730205
Foundation and Empire is significantly better, but if you're not digging it then you're better off dropping it

Malazan is overrated. 3 books in and it feels like a complete waste of time. These are supposed to e the best ones too? Yikes.

>>19730313
Read King Bakker Supreme

>>19730205
Utterly disgusting cover.

>>19730313
It's worth it.

>>19730366
Yeah, where is the strong barbarian man with strong big muscles?

>>19730377
Not sure why you felt the need to strawman my post with a non-sequiter.

>>19730384
A nice barbarian with nice muscles is way better than that utterly disgusting cover.

>>19730366
I agree. I'm a bit biased, but I love the Brazillian covers.

need help on something, i write the way i talk. the way i talk is rather a mess. i could fill pages and pages of ideas but it would be hell to sift through when unfiltered. "and's" after periods, run on sentences and the such. i dont care to format how i speak so i dont care to format as i write.

of course, i can always go back and edit it to be grammatically correct line by line, keeping my emotions from the way i speak would be great to read if formatted correctly, but thats not the issue.

im curious on how i would approach this, i dont want to waste a readers time by my droning and repeating im prone to do no matter how poetic i may phrase things. writings are supposed to be the distillation of complete themes and nothing more that is not integral to the central themes. my word mileage exceeds the amount needed to explain the theme i want to explain a single time.

how do you personally approach this with your writings? as im relatively new to writing i hadnt seen the process many writers go through, so this issue is rather alien to me. if you can share how you condense your passages into only its core while keeping the emotions of your speech thats made into the page, id love the advice.

>>19730400
Write a passage, then go back and remove every other word.

>>19730410
sounds simple enough. lmao, was more looking for personal experience and advice but definitely nothing wrong with the plain answer. ill consider it a refreshing slap to my over thinking! lmao, thanks tho

>>19730397
>brazil
pozzed

>>19730400
>my writing is a mess
>but I don't want to fix it
>what do?

>>19730467
never said i dont want to fix it, i said that it wasnt the issue i was asking for. im fine toiling over grammer and editing my nights away, im just asking how others tackle the problem to see if i can learn anything i may have missed on this

Which books do you consider as "must read"?

>>19730494
The Darkness That Comes Before by King Bakker

>>19730494
The Hungry Caterpillar

>>19730494
dune, it got snubbed its prominence in scifi and every scifi property there after was either influenced by it or directly stole from it. inconsistent studios and support never landed it in pop culture with the lack of media beyond the books.
only now is it finding a place on the big screen, and theres pros and cons to this, but the original book is easily the best piece of media ive ever consumed. ignoring the movies and the influences the book made, it is a crystal clear telling of the most opaque concepts and it is wonderful through its attention to detail.
its a tad front loaded, but all copies come with a dictionary of all the words youre yet to understand (i just had a wiki up of all the words made by frank herbert.)

if you find your self enjoying the series, dont bother to go past the 6th book. 7 onwards is made by his son and another writer, not up to the quality of franks standards and many people find them useless to dune, alone they could have some value but it will taint every event of the original books, removing the intended meaning by recontextualizing with another writers crackpot ideas that dont match the originals.

>>19730494
Mine.

>>19730525
>dune
its pozzed now

>>19730596
speak english, that could mean anything.
you can read it for what it is and ignore societies thoughts surrounding it or you can go by death of the author and take whatever the public is saying about it.
its not good just to avoid a thing because its popular, its popular because its good. whatever narrative others got from it is what they got from it, if people like it then people like it.
contribute to the conversation instead of using meaningless phrases.

>>19730634
don't bother with people using buzzwords
it's a clear sign of mental issues and nothing they say should be taken seriously

>>19730653
agreed, should we tell them about twitter? i think they would feel at home there.

>high fantasy setting
>MC is a OP almost Gary Sue
>still have struggles and problems he can't always get out of it and he's still a enjoyable main character people can relate to
How would you write this? Or at least, how not to write it.

>>19730771
First of all the term is Wesley Crusher not Gary Stu.

>>19730771
sounds like Kvothe from the name of the wind

>>19730775
idk i think i like the sound of gary stu

>>19730771
Sounds like my nigga Raistlin

>>19730791
Rothfuss sure knows a lot about not writing that kind of story.

Any good fantasy books that aren't the typical medieval setting?

>>19730811
I really enjoyed this one, it's a very fun take on fantasy.

Any good fantasy they uses the Reformation for inspiration? Bonus for more serious stuff.

>>19728616
>>19728854
I have 80 pages left of Chapterhouse: Dune then I need to find a new series.

>>19730983
thoughts on Heretics and Chapterhouse? or maybe you were the same anon I asked a couple days ago.

>>19730994
Yeah it's me. They're both good, but depressing as you get towards the end of Chapterhouse. You can see Frank trying some new things in his last 2 books.

>>19730970
which reformation

>>19730983
The ending on Chapterhouse is pretty good. Makes you want to know a few things but it's a decent ending. I would read something with characters that seem human. Just to make sure you are in fact human after reading the entire Dune saga.
>>19730994
I prefer Heretics over Chapterhouse. Both are great. Heretics has more world building. Chapterhouse is more philosophical. God Emperor is better than both, but I think they are great.

>>19730525
I think the sequels never captured the pacing of Dune. The writing flows when it needs to and is flowery at times, but not too much. It's a page turner. World building is subtle. Herbert kept things simple but also was a perfectionist on his word choice. Unfortunately I read Dune 7 and 8. Thankfully I've about forgotten them and I can compartmentalize them in my mind due to the drastic change from how Frank wrote his books. I've not touched the prequels. Hell no.

New book rec pls. And by "new" I mean something in the last decade or so. Why does it feel like sci-fi is so stagnant?

>>19731336
Piranesi

>>19731339
preview makes the book look super interesting
thanks anon

>>19729734
Not a bad order. Hard to argue with it.
>Dune
>God
>Heretics
>Messiah
>Children
>Chapterhouse
>>19729770
I think that they are based on the notes. You can outline the plot of Dune 7 and see how there are elements there with how Herbert was going to create the conflict to wrap up his saga. The thing is they turned these notes into 2 books worth aprox. 320,000 words. These are not good words. The writing is awful. What's more is half the plot relied on 6 prequel novels they wrote before completing original Saga. In other words, the sequels are advertisements for their prequels. Their material is full of contradictions to Frank's universe. They lack any subtly, craft, or art in the way they are written. They don't stop either, they keep pumping more and more books. I think people would be more forgiving and say "look, Frank Herbert was talented and it's okay that the apple fell pretty far from the tree" when it comes to Brian had he just did Dune 7 and left it at that. At least he could have found a better author to work with. But he just wanted to get paid for his Father's work instead of trying to write his own fiction.

>>19731376
It's pretty good

I'm close to finishing the Wolfe trilogy. What's next? After 3body and Malazan before that, Wolfe was a bit of a letdown, it's just okay

i see lots of dune in this thread, what do you think of seinfeld?
>>19728616 >>19728854 >>19729441
>>19729714 >>19729734 >>19729745
>>19724119 >>19726486 >>19728585
>>19729787 >>19730213 >>19730525
>>19730983 >>19731246 >>19731286
>>19731387

Dune Messiah is the best one and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.

>>19730313
1. It's pomo fantasy and you're probably reading it wrong.
2. Memories of Ice is usually held in high regards but his writing clearly and steadily improves until book 5, where he reaches perfection.

>>19723974
I just uploaded my debut novel to Amazon. Do you cunts want a free copy?
I figure I have to do a bunch of marketing shit befor releasing it, but I’m useless at that sort of crap. Gotta make a website, mailing list and all that. But I just want people to read it desu.

>>19731856
What's it about?

>>19731856
is it progressive fantasy kino? What's the actual process of selling this shit

>>19731859
It’s fantasy about a girl stolen and raised by dog-people.
>>19731863
I don’t know what progressive fantasy means, sorry.
It’s basically a coming of age story. Dunno if it’s kino, but my mom said it was cool.

>>19731863
>process of selling it
Tbh I just wrote it, did a million edits,painted a cover and formatted it into Ebook and paperback specs.
I think you’re meant to try to get advanced copies out to people in exchange for reviews on goodreads or whatever, no drum up presales so it debuts with a bit of steam behind it. That’s done through mailing lists with a freebie of some sort to entice people.
But I dunno, I am hopeless at marketing shit.

>>19731871
Post a pastebin of the first chapter or something

Does anybody else absolutely hate sex scenes in books?
When i read them i just imagine it too vividly and it get me aroused when i don't want to be.
It's a huge pain

>>19731888
No? I don't care about them that much but unless they go on too long I don't care

>>19731888
used to until i stated writing my own for my stories and it killed all enjoyment.
just imagine the authors shriveled face as he wrote it, or even pull up the audio book to ruin all enjoyment as a hoarse British man tells you how he nuts across a bear chest.
on a serious note, just desensitize yourself to it, it gets boring after a while when your body understands youre not seeking pleasures and looking for story.

>>19731903
>>19731888
From a theory standpoint, nearly every scene in a story should:
>provide a problem
>reveal something important about a character by
>making the best choice out of bad options
If a sex scene doesn't have a problem and doesn't show the character struggling then by definition it is gratuitous. Maybe a sex scene about a suave womanizer who is actually faking it and is completely inexperienced with the actual deed could be an interesting character moment but for most characters it probably isn't important. Anything important in that scene could just as easily be done while the characters are walking through the park and talking.

However from a reader's perspective sometimes they just wanna see characters get frisky so fuck theory.

>>19731876
kind of sounds like you didn't even try

sword and sorcery rec? I want it to have detailed gratuitous violence and at least 1 rape scene

>>19731888
As a kid I masturbated furiously to the sex scenes in Atlas Shrugged and Sword of Truth. Now I pretty much don't care.

>Xerius tries to fuck his mother and discovers it's a skin-spy when he encounters his dick
>we are never told that skin spies have any sort of an actual sexual dimorphism
>when Cnaiur is traveling with a bunch of skin-spies, one of them takes the shape of Serwe, and it's implied that Cnaiur fucks it basically all the time
Is he finally out of the closet by this point bros?

>>19731987
Considering Cnaiur fucks men to prove his masculinity, maybe?

>>19732067
>Considering Cnaiur fucks men to prove his masculinity
Nope. Until she dies, he constantly refers to Serwe as "his proof", which I took to be as "proof of his heterosexuality", unwittingly revealing his intense insecurity.

Prior to that, he got seduced by Moggi when he was a tenn (driving him to turbocope), and raped Conphas in blind fury.

Skin-spies are probably the first time he fucks a man's ass supplied with a (feminine) penis (and his waifu's face) in a clear mind and out of his own volition.

>>19732135
Him fucking a skin-spy has nothing to do with his homosexuality, though.

>>19732149
How so? It probably has a benis, even in Serwe form.

Luv me Wolfe
Luv me Sapkowski
Luv me Tolkien
Luv me Vonnegut
What should I be reading? More of those authors or can I bridge out?

>>19731919
Try reading something other than YA sometimes.

>>19732174
yeah they all have benis

>>19732222
What's the matter? Editor said your story lacked conflict?

>>19724026
I'm going to give this a chance out of sheer fucking persistence on your part. If it's trash I'll fuck your face.

>>19731239
The one in Europe from Luther to the end of the Thirty Years War or a bit longer, like 1517-1650.

The Inquisition, the religious autism, the various millennialist revolts like Munster, the crowded furious, sometimes riotous debates, the flurry of publications back and forth, the Jesuits, the peasant revolts, the witch hunts, the most destructive wars in European history (just the Thirty Years War killed a larger % of the European population than both World Wars, the by comparison minor Hugonaut Wars in France killed as many people as 6 Syrian Civil Wars in a country with about a fourth less people at the start of the war).

The intellectual warfare and debates would make it a great setting. No one uses it though despite it being appropriately Medieval still.

>>19732806
reality and history usually makes for a better story than fiction

>>19732866
Not that anon, but ironically this is why I've been trying to read more history/nonfiction. At one point I realized I could recount the nuances of the history of the Malazan series at the drop of a hat, but don't know jack shit about things like the Prussian wars or even WWI and such.

>>19732559
(It's trash)

>>19732923
Not that anon, but it unironically doesn't matter.

rec me a sff novella kthx UwU

>>19732945
you need to clarify if you want it sjw or non-sjw?

>>19733663
u du u

>>19733729
I like King Bakker the mighty Father of all sffg, he is a philosopher who writes grim dark novels and he is non-sjw, he is hard gay and hates women.

>>19733747
r u ok? i sed novella.

The Sword in the Stone was okay, charming in the way that the Disney movie of it was charming. I actually think that adaptation caught the book more or less perfectly. I'm onto Book 2 now though, The Witch in the Wood, and it is rough. I don't care about what Merlyn and Arthur are up to, not to mention that Merlyn's philosophy is completely whack, which is sort of addressed but not really.
>>19731794
The ending really stuck with me, I loved that.

>>19731376
>reading previews
disgusting

>>19733804
is reading previews pozzed and unbased?

Opinions on the Graphic Audio Mistborn adaptations? Just finished book 5, I think they're pretty great, but I've seen a lot of people shitting on them.

>>19733880
I think Mistborn is officially pozzed and unbased in /sffg/ and that is a fact not an opinion

>>19733858
call it however you want, you are spoiling half of the story and creating expectations about what will the book be like

>>19733908
What the fuck does that even mean, is this some weird /lit/speak I don't know?

>>19733921
Ignore the shitposter. He's been shitting up the thread with nothing but buzzwords.

>>19732211
might try The Vorrh. or not.

why so much fantasy in this general, so little scifi

>>19733961
>the vore
Not reading about your garbage DA-tier fetishes you fucking freak, gtfo.
>>19734080
Nobody in /sffg/ reads. Luckily, you don't read fantasy, you consume it. It's womanish comfort food in text form.

>>19733747
What's the figurative antonym word for "bait"?

>>19730080
Not OP but even I know he does. Re read the books.

“ “Listen!” Sancla had cried from his pallet one night. “‘And the Latter Prophet said: Piety is not the province of money-changers. Do not give food for food, shelter for shelter, love for love. Do not throw the Good upon the balance, but give without expectation. Give food for nothing, shelter for nothing, love for nothing. Yield unto him who trespasses against you. For these things alone, the wicked do not do. Expect not, and you shall find glory everlasting.’ ” The older boy fixed Achamian with his dark, always-laughing eyes—eyes that would make them lovers for a time.”

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Still based tho it’s more like Illiad Trojan ancient wholesome gayness, not modern degen gayness… still gay tho… but cute… but gay…

>>19731888
>xe said as he posted an underage anime girl

Trannies everybody

>>19725806
There's tons of light novels, manga, and anime that feature this. There are a number of D&D related novels that do so as well.

>>19724238
This was a point of mine many years ago when I would still post here.

But what I would say is that it’s more the ancient form of man and warrior love, not getting gaped and ass eaten at gay pride parade bug chasing event modern degenerate “love”. And when other other try to implement gay love they usually ring the latter. Bakker is the only guy I’ve read whos done man love right, if you catch my drift. No homo. No cope-o.

>>19734080
There are only 3 kinds of scifi books anymore.
1. What if trans people were on the moon? A book from a brave disabled BIPOC industry plant
2. Military action scifi with no trans people because trans people are yucky and I am boycotting The Hugos
3. I was a big name in the 90's so I can still get published now provided I put trans people on the moon

No one actually has a new vision for the future, Scifi is completely consumed by the Culture War.
I don't think this is Scifi's fault entirely, it is harder hit by the End of History feeling that pervades our culture in a way that Fantasy (mostly being a escape in to pre-modernity) hasn't been. And so Scifi has had to either find new material not concerned with bold new futures or devolve in to plot focused action pulp.

>>19726922
We did tho in them getting constantly dabbed on by more powerful half’s or full dunyain.

>>19730494
My diary desu

>Work allegedly set in the Cthulhu Mythos
>Cthulhu/the Gods are evil and are plotting to take over the world
Every fucking time. How do people consistently fuck this up so much?
Are there any mythos works, especially ones with a modern or sci-fi angle, that are actually good? A Colder War and some of the Delta Green fluff is all I can think of.

>>19731888
Yes, but because I dislike reading about any kind of romance or any kind of close relationship between men and women (obviously I also don't like anything to do with homos)

>>19732559
It has been few hours now, how are you finding it?

>inb4 it's trash

Bakker is
K I N O
I
N
O

B A K K ER
I I
N N
O O

>>19734477
NOOOOOO NOW IT'S POZZED

>>19733880
People are probably shitting on them for being abridged, but since his prose if pure function anyway what's there to miss? Those elaborite audio productions are basically the equivalent of adding nuance and character to the writing.

>>19734477
> BAKKER
> BINO
> AINO

>>19734610
TRUTH SHINES

>>19734301
I understand manga and anime because they're visual mediums, but LNs?
>There are a number of D&D related novels that do so as well.
Any recs?

>>19723974
Ever since I stared watching Shadiversity and Skallagrim, I've struggled to visualize sword fights in novels because I fell for the realism meme they peddled. I keep thinking: swords shouldn't clash like that, the recoil from the swords wasn't taken into account here, it's impossible for the weapons to move in the manner the author described here, the author didn't take into account the impact or how the swords would've had to move after the clash here etc. All that kind of shit is just stuck in mind now, and so all sword scenes read like shit to me, since I'm too busy picking them to apart to visualize them like I used to. Anyone else feel the same?

>>19724019
I HIGHLY recommend everyone read Desolate Era, Coiling Dragon, and Lord of the Mysteries if you enjoy progressional fantasy

>>19734819
no

>>19734819
Idk, I think describing the minutia of a melee is pretty bad writing in the first place. As much as I dislike his body of work, I have to side with Sanderson that it is much better to describe the flow of a battle, how it feels, and the general movement, than a strict blow for blow (dramatic flourishes like killing strokes aside).

>>19734829
What exactly is 'progressional fantasy'? asking for a friend

>>19734946
Characters grow stronger in power/skill over time as the primary focus. Its just the autistic formalization of something that has always existed in many different mediums. Basically another self-publisher micro-genre to the extent it is consciously perused as an end in itself.

>>19734819
I used to play a lot of video games years ago and while I stopped eventually I still play every once in a while. Since I got into fantasy and sword fighting literature I cringe every time I see some new swords game that everyone raves about (like souls games), everytime character swings his sword and the sword literally passes through the enemy is just cringe, or some spear user literally fighting close range(which should be impossible) and again the weapon just passes through enemies, mechanics like these that gamers don't care about (but care very much about frame counts and shit like that) makes me realize that gaming is garbage and I wasted countless hours in my youth sitting in front of tv/computer screen.

>>19734978
thanks. if you can't tell, I am rolling my eyes right now.

>>19734946
Chapter 1: The main character is a cripple who can't even fight a child
Chapter 25: The main character is an average fighter
Chapter 100: The main character is far above average, and is now capable of fighting 5 or more men
Chapter 200: The main character is supernatural, and is now capable of cleaving through whole armies, solo
Chapter 500: The main character is a literal god who's trading blows with his setting's pantheon of gods
Chapter 1000: The main character is now fighting literal hundreds of gods at the same time
Chapter 10,000: The main character IS god, and he forges his own universe

>>19734829
IET is garbage writer

Whats some niche slightly schizo sf&f?

>>19735034
He writes great fight scenes and fantastic training sequences though, and that's all that matters. Yeah, he can't write a plot or side character to save his life, but the worldbuilding + training/fight scenes always make up for it. It's literally like watching only the good parts of Rocky + Dragonball Z

>>19735041
I would go so far as to say it's a bit more than "slightly schizo". but yeah if you want schizo, you want Dick. do any of you bros own a copy that is like pic related? what a great cover..

>>19735084
I already own a fair amount of Philly Ds work and Im currently reading Valis. Any others similar youd reccomend, thinking /x/ tier conspiracy schizo stuff.

>>19735106
hmm well for "weird" there is always Jeff Vandermeer and China Mieville. I really enjoyed Mieville's 'The City and the City'.. it's less sci-fi and more speculative fiction but it's about two modern day cities that are sort of super imposed onto each other.. cities from City A cannot "see" citizens from City B (they are trained to not see them when in effect both citizens are physically overlapping in geographical space). kinda hard to explain. I'm not a terrible fan of Vandermeer but I've only read Annihiliation, the first book in a series.

>>19735041
please ignore the shitposters, but to answer your question, bakker is actually somewhat schitzo and that's part of the appeal of his books also samuel delaney. hyperion is kind of schizo at times too

>>19735302
Yeah Hyperiom gave off that feel, thanks for the suggestions

Do you guys know where i can get good PDF for book of the new sun series?

>>19735365
Bo-ok

>>19735365
Why a .pdf?

>>19728616
>I actually just finished God Emperor.
and?

>>19730791
God. What a boring piece of shit.

>>19734416
It's fine-ish? The translation is sloppy (feel like translators should be able to take liberties with syntax to make things flow) and the setup I've seen done in manga. I'm willing to hold out to see how the Gu system works. I imagine the appeal of the book is following a villain and having him face the same moral quandaries of his past except EVIL. Tropey, stereotypical and if I had to guess it's going to explore how the sects of justice who came after him are evil in their own way because a villain can never just be a villain.

For the people who call Cradle trash, it's competition in the genre isn't all that impressive.

>>19735651
I loved it, I posted in the previous thread I believe but yes it was definitely my favorite of the four Frank books so far (God Emperor, Dune, Messiah, Children is my current ranking). Leto was written well as a very tragic figure. I loved the philosophy and dialogue between Leto and both Duncan and Moneo. and I'm a bit of a brainlet but I really like that the point of the Golden Path was to try to kill off the ability of prescience; to make sure that humans can just "live out their lives" rather than appeal to those with prescient abilities, eg the Bene Gessert and the Spacing Guild. If I read the book correctly, it look Leto 3500 years to breed an Atreidies that was able to live "outside" of those with prescient abilities, and I guess the goal is for this Atreides, Sionna, to spread her genes so that many humans in the future can escape prescient eyes.

>>19735678
Not going to spoil it so keep reading.

gu system is pretty nice and it is also integrated well into the story,
Regarding Cradle, cradle is just western ya fiction with eastern progression elements, it starts out well but then quickly turns into pure western (modern) fantasy.

>>19734928
This. It would take like 5 pages to describe one second of melee combat sufficiently. No one's gonna write that, and no one's gonna read it.

>>19735920
good guy raise sword then bring sword down

>>19734992
Yeah I played a weeb action game and the idle animation for the spear class was to ram the spear into the ground and pole dance on it, that would never work IRL, real garbage.

>>19736142
based. the only hardcover I have is Unholy Consult. and I have mass paperback of the Judging Eye (which is fine because the Judging Eye sucks)

>>19734603
I quite like how immersive they are. The voice cast is actually really great.

>>19724031
Every single important character is cleaver and quippy. Even shivers

Here you go starter of the next thread(s)

>>19734819
No, I’m not a pathetic autist.

>>19736314
kino

>>19736332
More like DRAINO because that's what I'm gonna pour in my eyes after looking at that dreadful picture.

>>19736329
This. Tired of autists.

>>19723974
>Witcher image
>No Witcher books or discussion
They must be terrible.

>>19736806
They're just shiddy ripoffs of Elric.

>>19736809
How so? And in what way? Because this is the first I’m hearing about that.

>>19728616
I finished Chapterhouse today, I would like to report in and say that there are, in fact, cosmic space Jews in the Dune Universe now. I am so glad he added that in before he died.

>>19736142
nice

>>19736814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkiP64adGjY

>>19736836
I’m not watching a YouTube video.

>>19736621
What’s your exact beef with it and post something you like

>>19734383
if you want good mythos stuff you just have to accept it's all from the classic authors. modern authors, for whatever reason, are incapable of writing anything that isn't world of warcraft

>>19736845
>modern authors, for whatever reason, are incapable of writing anything that isn't world of warcraft
Terrible take and one that’s easily wrong.

>>19734383
Just actually read Lovecraft then ignore the rest of it. You're reading what is effectively fanfiction, why are you surprised that it's shit?

New thread
>>19736852

>>19736840
Okay

>>19736621
What’s your exact beef with this picture, and if you please, post something you like.