/lit/ - Literature

They were all based on real affairs he had and his real fetishes, Fanny Pistor was the model for Venus in Furs then he married Wanda Dunajew

bump

>>19713693
Idk. I have the same fetish and I just desperately want to get rid of it. Not only is it extremely unmanly and undignified but, as the novel itself explains, no woman wants a man who is into this stuff. Women are designed to be dominated, not the other way around. For my part I hope it will go away once I lose my virginity and stop idolising and idealising the feminine form.

>>19715378
Just find a woman who's into it and that actually loves you.

>>19715388
There's not a single woman who is actually into it. It's just against their nature. Only prostitutes, "pro-dommes", and "financial dominatrices" engage in it; and they merely act like they like it. Even if you find a woman who is willing to try it out, she will eventually look for a strong masculine man to put her in her place, like what happens in the novel.
Moreover it's just undignified. I want to be a man not a dog. I will defeat this poison one day I know it.

>>19715412
The world is filled with domineering women that love to gradually grind men into emotional dust. Btw, "unheimlich," i.e. the uncanny, seems to be a major trope in Venus: this is a psychological term, but obviously also a mystical or even magical one.

>>19715533
It's purely a male fantasy. Probably has something to do with sexually frustrated men being filled with mad desire and therefore elevating the feminine to the status of godhood. The archetype of this is the lovelorn knight pining for his lady.

>>19715378
>>19715412
>There's not a single woman who is actually into it.
I’m a homo so I don’t have any investment in this as a fantasy, but I’m pretty sure there are genuinely domineering women

>>19715570
The penis is designed to penetrate the vagina. Why does the vagina self-lubricate when a woman is horny? Preparing for penile penetration. That's the same reason the penis gets hard. And what happens when this reaches its final conclusion? Conception, life. Hence it is clear that the penis is designed to enter the vagina, not another man's bumhole.

>>19715378
>>19715412
>>19715554
I'm the same and I agree with everything you've said. I would unironically go through with a form of gay conversion therapy for submissive men, if it existed. It's a fucking curse and I wish I never indulged in it when I was younger, I've probably made my condition a lot worse

>>19715580
What the fuck are you talking about man?

What are some more novels with dominatrix themes?

tfw three African women will never abuse you

>>19715378
>>19715412
>has a mashochism fetish
>doesn't believe some women actually like domming
how retarded are you, anon? there's no point in being ashamed of a masochism fetish, there are plenty of people who practice BDSM and have successful relationships so there's no need to abandon it and demonize it for a false universal assumption ("women don't actually like being dommed, therefore it's actually a power construct for women to feel empowered and makes me seem weak if I take part"). your assumptions about women are based on false standards that stem from bad personal experience and/or standards arising from shut-ins and retards on the internet. you've chosen to cling to these assumptions and there's no room for improvement from this point, everyone just a part of some false standard that can't be broken. thinking like this causes you to miss out on a lot of beneficial (and sometimes negative, though important) experiences in life, not everyone is based on some mold or standard but can be their own person entirely.
TLDR: false, universal assumptions cause you to miss out on a lot

>>19716506
You're coping, and probably didn't even read the book

>>19716209
That can totally be yours to have.

>>19715582
If you refrained from porn and masturbation, it would go away. You exarcebate your fetish too much on your own

>>19716632
who reads on /lit/?

>>19715378
I have looked into my own submissive tendencies a bit and some things I think are innate to me and positive, and others are just unhealthy. This is quite degenerate but I was talking to a domme on a sexting site when this topic popped up. We talked about it, and concluded that at a lot of my femdom fetish came as a way to fetishize failures and insecurities so I could avoid having to work and fix them. Some stuff was fine, but what I realized was the parts of sex, even "submissive sex", I enjoyed didn't need the BDSM aspect at all. In fact my fetish had become an unhealthy thing and I needed to fix it. The woman I was talking to recommended going to the gym and getting a creative hobby. I tried that out and so far I haven't felt the need to masturbate, much less use femdom porn.

>>19716632
He’s right though. I’ve never read the book either so I’m not gonna bring that into this but the fact that submissive straight men exist basically proves the existence of dominant straight women. They’re not as common, sure, and a lot of the time they’re not what sub guys picture as their “mommydom gf” but they exist none the less and it is in fact YOU who is coping by assuming that what you want doesn’t exist and THATS why you’re still a virgin. In reality you’re a virgin due to a lack of looks, personality, drive, and self confidence. Also most people are at least somewhat submissive and dominant depending on their partner

>>19716759
Good for you anon. I’m glad you’ve addressed the toxic aspects of your sexuality rather than just repressing it

>>19716759
Oddly wholesome story.

>>19716506
They don't. Sacher-Masoch realised this himself; just read the novel. He thought that the abolition of gender inequality would eventually allow women to take control of their assertive side without desiring to cuck their submissive boyfriends with a real man, like in the novel. But he was wrong; gender equality was acheived and female nature stayed the same.

But it is a shallow mind which thinks that the satisfaction of appetite equals self-expression. It is the opposite: it leads to self-negation. Especially in this case, where what you desire is to be humiliated, disrespected, and mistreated by a person whom you as a man should be leading. It's just going to cause you to feel like less of a man and will lower your self-esteem.

Females love submissive men it's really not just for the money

>>19716759
What website anon?

>>19715378
Are you me? I'm a 25 yo virgin and this stupid fetish I think is to blame. When I was younger in school I had hot girls into me but I never made any moves on them, I was like afraid of them or something. Of course I would go home and jerk off to femdom shit. Now that I'm a bit older and I'm not really afraid of women anymore but of course I don' t know any now that I'm out of school. I'm so disgusted with having this fetish though, whenever I see videos of men indulging in the things I like I feel nothing but contempt for how lowly and groveling they look. As soon as I cum I'm immediately disgusted with everything about this. And you're right that no women are into this. I just want to have normal sex with an actual girl and not be haunted by these stupid fantasies.

>>19715412
>There's not a single woman who is actually into it. It's just against their nature.
It naturally follows that there's not a single man into being dominated, since it's against there nature. This is cleary untrue since the subanons above are on suicide watch over their fetish.
If it is known that some men have sexual proclivities that go against their nature, it is safe to assume that some women have sexual proclivities that go against their nature.

>>19716506
>>19716929
>submissive men exist so dominant women must exist
This is such retarded logic I could barely bring myself to point it out. Men and women don't have the same type of distribution. There isn't someone for everyone. It does not logically follow that there are dominant women out there since there are submissive men. Saying "it logically follows" does not magically make it logical you fucking idiots. It doesn't logically follow at all. You might as well say "WELL THE SKY IS BLUE SO IT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS THAT UNICORNS EXIST"

>>19716946
lol cope more faggot, the logic follows
false equivalency you queer!!

>>19716929
Not only that, but it's indisputable that there are women, namely certain types of mothers, that specialize in dominating and destroying the self-esteem of their male children, effectively creating cucks and incels.

>>19713693
Austria's just like that tbph

>Why not?" she said, "and take note of what I am about to say to you. Never feel secure with the woman you love, for there are more dangers in woman's nature than you imagine. Women are neither as good as their admirers and defenders maintain, nor as bad as their enemies make them out to be. Woman's character is characterlessness. The best woman will momentarily go down into the mire, and the worst unexpectedly rises to deeds of greatness and goodness and puts to shame those that despise her. No woman is so good or so bad, but that at any moment she is capable of the most diabolical as well as of the most divine, of the filthiest as well as of the purest, thoughts, emotions, and actions. In spite of all the advances of civilization, woman has remained as she came out of the hand of nature. She has the nature of a savage, who is faithful or faithless, magnanimous or cruel, according to the impulse that dominates at the moment. Throughout history it has always been a serious deep culture which has produced moral character. Man even when he is selfish or evil always follows principles, woman never follows anything but impulses. Don't ever forget that, and never feel secure with the woman you love

I read it years ago and was surprised that something which, as far as I understand, was so shocking when it was first released seemed so tame to me. Hell, parts of it even felt quaint.

>>19716762
>reality you’re a virgin due to a lack of looks, personality, drive, and self confidence.
Are you projecting? I have a girlfriend who professes themselves as a "femdom", guess what, she's still into me because I have stereotypical manly qualities.

>>19716804
>But it is a shallow mind which thinks that the satisfaction of appetite equals self-expression. It is the opposite: it leads to self-negation
based, I wish I could phrase this when I was addicted to tentacle porn

Femdom is indeed a stupid fetish and women are all submissive unless they're mentally ill but if you have a mild femdom fetish you can act it out with any girl and she'll do it for you. Women are accommodating about fetishes since they just see men as retard coomers who can be into balloon popping.

The more they have to act out scenes, and the sillier your fetishes are, the more annoying it will be to accommodate. You should learn not to top from the bottom aside from your initial requests. Most submissive guys top from the bottom constantly. Men don't know how to be subs.

You should also learn to fuck normally and not need a BDSM porno fantasy to have sex at all.

>>19715412
>young virgin has looked into the minds of all women on the planet
Excellent job.

>It's just against their nature.
And it is against your nature as a man that you want to submit and be dominated, yet look at you.

>>19716946
You're shit at reasoning. The point is that "human nature" is not set in stone in the manner that the subfag believes, and that he is living proof of it, since he does not live up to whatever nature a man should live up to.

All gay attempts at "le logic" are moot anyway, because dommy women exist, despite what early-twenty something virgins on the internet have of grand theories about the metaphysical nature and logical constraints of femininity - virgins who have not interacted with a woman who was not a) family or b) a retail worker for months, mind you.

>>19717044
Roastie detector through the roof. You're either a female tourist or a very feminine normalfag tourist. I don't care about what you post, but can you stop saying the same
>Umm sweetie that's not a very socially acceptable thing to say? Like?
and
>I bet girls don't like you I bet girls don't talk to you I bet you don't talk to girls I bet girls don't like you I bet you can't get girls to talk to you Do you even talk to girls I bet you aren't popular with girls
in every post? You stand out like a sore thumb.

>>19716929
“Nature” assumes that anything about human sexuality is natural. We are literally using each other to get high. It’s completely divorced from nature, which sees sex as something important for survival. Given this, it’s quite obvious that culture has exploited our sexual wiring. Men who are obsessed with appearing masculine, both the redpilled “alphas” and incels, are completely imitating a masculine ideal. The same with women and the feminine. Therefore, it’s easy to find many men and women who are into sexual roles outside the “normal” ones. Are these sexual desires rooted in some deeper psychological or early childhood experiences? Your guess is as good as mine. My only point is that we were all taught what sex is. We are exposed to the idea very young.
If being masculine is what turns women on, there wouldn’t be so many single guys. Funnily enough, many of the men who kill it with women seem more feminine. I believe that is because they have a better understanding of women, what they desire and what they hate, a much better understanding than redpilled/incels who believe you need to act like He-Man to make women horny. Their problem is they have taken a partial truth, which is that women (and men) like people who are secure and mature, and then they imitate the behavior AKA act like a developed man. Of course, if you aren’t actually a developed man who has his shit together, this act is going to have holes and will seem off to anyone who isn’t retarded. Thus the whole be yourself thing is actually true. So you have the decision to become a person who you respect, which will result in attracting some people. Or you can become a good actor, which will some attract people at least initially if they don’t think something is up. This is not some wholesome view either. If you really want to attract lots of people, whether you are a man or a woman, not being a pussy is really important. Of course this is a traditionally masculine feature, but the only people who aren’t attracted to brave people are insecure themselves. So thus there is the compatibility issue with dating as well. Anyways, I am rambling because I am just typing out my internal monologue. I mainly wanted to say that “masculine” weightlifters are huge pussies usually, and I would easily take your woman if she wasn’t ugly. Keep wondering why that guy that you tell yourself is a gay faggot gets hotter women than you. You fucking imitating pussy. You based your whole persona out of a trope because you are (not so) secretly scared of getting rejected, you are literally a baby. Your masculine ideal is much closer to what homosexuals want than what women want. Why do you think you always catch men looking at your muscles?

>>19717055
I am so genuinely happy that people are beginning to take me as a tourist, thank fuck.

>>19716971
>says something retarded and gets called out on it
>COPE COPE SEETHE COPE FAGGOT COPE LOL

>>19717044
You're the one who was making gay attempts at logic, and poor attempts at that. Go look at any femdom porn long enough and you'll see that it all ends the same way, with the sub guy as a sexually frustrated cuck so the femdom girl can go get dicked down by a guy with a normal dominant sex drive. Go on reddit and look at all of the femdom porn subs where people in these types of relationships post and it's all about how the sub guy is some chastity wearing cuck who gets pounded in the ass by the girl with a dildo. Go talk to an actual fucking pro domme, they all despise submissive men. Aka it's all just like how von Sacher Masoch wrote 200 years ago, even women who get off on playing with submissive men want to get fucked by a "real man" and if they can't get that from you they'll someone they can get it from. The logical conclusion to all femdom is getting cucked by a guy who's not into femdom.

>>19717072
Yes, we know, you despise the website you're posting on and see yourself as apart from all the other posters here, and they're also virgins, and you bet they don't go outside much and girls don't like them, etc. That's what I mean.

>>19715412
You're being too absolute about this. While it's true that even the dommest of dommes will instinctually want to be dominated by a man capable of it, many women get off on the emasculation and humiliation of men. This is why anyone engaging in femdom play in a relationship must either switch to dom here and there to keep her satisfied or become a cuckold and let her sleep with men who can dominate her.

>>19717014
And who is not to say that the world is full of mentally ill women, indeed, who can seriously dispute it is, to wit, argue that is not? The present age has made madness more abundant than marriage, but you, it seems, would defend the sanity of the majority of women your age and thereby argue with and against your own eyes, ears, mind, and heart?

How do I lose my virginity at 25 years old in a normal vanilla way? I have a job and money I go to the gym and I get drinks with my male friends but none of it magically leads to meeting women

>>19717132
Most women go insane by becoming more submissive, because women are capable of being addicted to degradation in the same way trannies and faggots are capable of becoming addicted to degenerate ass sex until their inner colon hangs out. Women let Chad make his dog fuck them, they're gelatinous creatures with no backbone so they will fill whatever container imposes itself on them.

Only some rare women either hate men or are afraid of them, usually a mix of both, and one of the few ways they can engage their sexuality while still feeling safe is by dominating the man because it keeps him in a "lane" they can understand and maintain control over. But most subs can't stay in their lane anyway because they all top from the bottom, so even the rare women with this special kind of mental illness who enjoy dominance just find more reasons to hate and fear men.

Imagine the whole reason you're into the idea of dominating a man is because you don't have to worry about his aggression or mindless unattractive coomer shit ruining everything, and the first thing he does is try to direct everything from the bottom, telling you exactly what to wear, what to say, how to act, makes requests in the middle of things, has no sense or simply doesn't care that you are trying to get into the scene too, and constant interruptions and constant reminders that it's being acted out for his fantasy are unsexy and kill the mood. This just makes you hate men more. Then imagine that refusing makes the man aggressive and petulant. Or even if things go well, he acts like a stalker and won't stop texting "hey" "hey" "answer me you bitch" "plz mistress?" "fuck you then bitch" "hey" "hey are you there" "sorry about that" "plz mistress respond" "fuck you cunt" like any other man.

The small demographic that hates/fears maleness to the point that they can't engage their femininity in an unproblematic way, and thus might find dominance a safe way to engage it, is the same demographic that now becomes FtM.

>>19717175
There's a huge subsection of women like that who are TERFs. Go on Crystal Cafe, it's literally just /r9k/ for emotionally disturbed femcels. It's interesting, they even fetishize the ideal male-female relationship as one where the male is a "racoon boy" aka a man the size of a small rodent that they can keep for entertainment but also easily overpower. I think it's the combination of male strength with the unknown that comes with trying to understand the opposite sex's brain that scares them.

>>19717236
Isn't Crystal Cafe mostly trannies? Ironically a good example of how men overrun everything and can't stay in their lane.

>>19713693

OP brings up an interesting writer
Thread degenerates into femdom discussion

Is Masoch a good writer?

>>19717279
No lolcow is mostly trannies, Crystal Cafe was made specifically by femcels as a female-oriented chan that was anti-tranny. I mean I'm sure a lot of them are trannies but there are definitely a lot of women on there

>>19717175
>Only some rare women either hate men or are afraid of them, usually a mix of both, and one of the few ways they can engage their sexuality while still feeling safe is by dominating the man because it keeps him in a "lane" they can understand and maintain control over.

Women who dominate men don't hate or fear them. You've completely forgot about how good women are at compartmentalization.

>>19713702
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>>19717310
>OP brings up an interesting writer
>Thread degenerates into femdom discussion
Not surprising it did. This book might not get its' message through to the majority of simp allosexuals who read it, but it is actually meant to shows the consequences of letting women manipulate you. You're supposed to laugh at the protagonist's misery, because he let his lust get the best of him, he let his delusions, his hormonal cocktail, control him to the point of letting a woman ruin his life like a complete moron. He's hardly a sympathetic figure, the only sympathy he's supposed to evoke is how pathetic he is. This is it, the fate of all allosexuals.

The posturing mating rituals, the vetting. Understanding women is like unveiling the trickery of a demon, the lure of a flower to a bee. You're getting sobering hints of the evolutonary hell of biology and waking up from blissful ignorance. Every curve on a female's body is designed to manipulate you through lust into letting her exploit you, and every blind impulse we have is meant to bring us to reproduce. When you catch a glimpse of what it is it will revolt you and you will be weary to ever engage with women further. The problem is you want there to be real love and unfortunately, that concept is another biological mechanism with the singular purpose of illuding and manipulating you, so you are best also disillusioning yourself from that promise ASAP

Read The Manipulated Man - Esther Vilar
NOW

>>19717071
The final part si weird as fuck. Nevertheless, good post, anon.

>>19717382
based, those that refute this are homosexual

To all the people in this thread saying “oh I wish I didn’t have this fetish this is why I’m a virgin,” just try actually having sex with a normal girl. Give the porn a break and I think you’ll realize that if you’re in an actual sexual setting with a human female that you’ll be much more “normal” or manly or dominant or whatever. I’ve been into femdom porn since I was like 14, but when I actually have sex I rarely feel the desire to be dominated. It’s all just based on the person I’m with and the vibe they give. Don’t let your porn fetishes control your actual life, if they are then you need to give up the porn. We live in an age where literally every conceivable fetish has thousands of videos, pictures, fanfics, etc. so we get these hyper-specific turn-ons and regular porn/sex seems boring. If you’re not sexually active irl you need to cut porn out of your life, it’s just a cope. Maybe porn-brain isn’t what’s ultimately holding you back but it’s not helping.

>>19718601
I don't know any women to interact with how am I supposed to have normal sex with a normal girl

>>19717382
Based
>catpcha HRTAJ

>>19716209
I used to Jack off to the idea of my crush (male) being enslaved by African women and tickle tortured naked by them

I’m beginning to think it’s part of their retarded fetish that “dominant women” don’t exist or some shit. Like they get off on being cucked by nature. Look at how desperate they are to insist that there are no dominant women. It’s bizarre. It is obvious to me as someone who is not a submissive masochist that there are

>>19717382
>anonymous unaware of how conversations work # 16003702

>>19713693
>Venus in Furs
>Not about about anthropomorphic animals
dropped

>>19719538
>dominant man meets so many women he finds some that are dominant themselves
>submissive man meets so few women that he never finds anything he likes
many such cases

>>19719487
literally tinder dude

it is that easy. just dont expect every girl you match with to be interested after you chat

>>19720179
disney version coming when?

>>19717382
>see people oversimplifying a complex reality
>respond by oversimplifying it in the opposite direction

this feels like american politics all over again

>>19717382
based, the lesson everyone should learn about sex is that letting your sexual desires take control of you is always bad every time

>>19715533
>and actually loves you
Can you even read, moron

>>19720179
Actually, the point is that the girl is unshaven.

>>19720445

>>19720445
I made a Tinder a couple weeks ago and got 11 likes and a few matches but none of the matches have led to anything irl, they always stop responding when I try to move things forward

>>19720665
For the incel tinder can be as risky as playing Russian roulette.

>>19715378
The female form is fucking based, you queer. The problem is the “mind” attached to it.

The thread tldr
>femdom is real
>no it isnt
>yes it is
>only mentally ill women are dominant
>so it can be real since there are dominant women
>no

>>19717382
The book literally ends with

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion. This she can become only when she has the same rights as he and is his equal in education and work."

The claim is not 'be wary of women', but that this is the consequence of inequality between men and women.

How you can take this message from a didactic novel that actually explicitly explains its message is beyond me

>>19721739
>The claim is not 'be wary of women', but that this is the consequence of inequality between men and women.

Precisely. This is man doing this to himself. It's a tragedy foretold a la Oedipus Rex. Why can't incels see this?: compassion for them must be a two way street that simultaneously extends (and must be reciprocated) to women. The torture rack upon which they find themselves is circular, and to it are simultaneously attached both man and woman: the pain inflicted on one through the movement of the wheel is ultimately likewise visited on the other through the same movement and vice versa.

>>19713693
>StorieS
Austro-Hungarian folk cultures (Sacher-Masoch wrote a lot more than just Venus)

>>19720665
Honestly tinder has a low online interaction to irl ratio. Most of your matches go nowhere but if you’re getting matches and messages it’ll lead to something eventually.