/lit/ - Literature

>>19702136
Let’s not kid ourselves — you’re probably not an artist.

>>19702143
I'm not a well-known artist, no, but art is something I'm passionate about. I have some galleries behind me and manage to support myself

men
>if you try hard, you can do anything
>you could even change the world forever or conquer it

women
>if you're in the top 60% of decent looking broads, any mundane thing you do will, if photographed, make low tier pathetic men simp for you on social media

unfair trade desu, i want to go ftm

>>19702165
Yeah, this is the truth

It's another reason that I'm disillusioned with art and am desperate to rekindle my passion for it

Artists don't *benefit* from reading philosophy. They *benefit* from reflecting upon their experience of life, the nature of "matter", the pain of the non-existing "soul". Philosophy tries to explain the human condition. Art is an activity parallel with philosophy, not an illustration of it. Why do you make art? Because you enjoy it? That's nice. I would rather make art that yells into the void. That reframes reality like crystals. That makes me weep because of its insufficiency. Jackson Pollock. (((Frida Kahlo))). Anselm Kiefer. Caravaggio.

>>19702251
Dilettante taste

>>19702251
>The nature of "matter"

I don't understand what you're getting at with this, mind elaborating? I also doubt that a materialist is capable of producing or even appreciating great art.

>>19702292
Not that twat, but I presume he means examing the nuances of how matter appears to us to better capture the impression. Not sure what he means by 'framing with crystals,' which, in addition to being a failed attempt at poeticism, comes off like something a twitter tranny would say.

F Gardner

>>19702164
Did you go to art school?

>>19702136
why are you trying to continue the 19th century? study the academics or something, paint some l'art pompier or a ship in a storm

>>19702164
Is that you Brian?

>>19702251
artists benefit from all sorts of different shit you nonce

>>19702165
>ftm
So . . . you're a woman?

>>19702324
Seconding this.

>>19702143
Everyone is an artist in everything they do, conscious or not

tldr: the west nurtured a representational painting tradition for thousands of years then threw it away literally & figuratively in the span of 50 years.

The slide from the armory show to duchamp's fountain was blindingly quick, 5 fucking years. The armory show was ok, but man, fuck Duchamp!

>>19702136
This is what you need. It will set you straight.
https://www.amazon.com/Beauty-What-Matters-John-Mark-Miravalle/dp/1622827120/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw9qOBhC-ARIsAG-rdn6RaEICo93i1WxZImNueanoOSVoOxFFjELzUeoLb_N4oGz5rNxUrHQaAmrsEALw_wcB&hvadid=409973043026&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003378&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=17503462158895597824&hvtargid=kwd-472851185&hydadcr=22537_11318393&keywords=why+beauty+matters&qid=1641520347&sr=8-1

>>19702473
Eh, looks like watered down edmund burke

>>19702473
amazon.com/dp/1622827120

your link: 372 characters
my link: 24 characters (6.4%)

you're being needlessly verbose

>>19702136
>as an artist
Please kill yourself. No one should have to pretend to find your juvenile reiterations of philosophy interesting.

>>19702533
How so?

>>19702533
I just make pretty pictures man, no philosophy except on how to do that better.

>>19702165
don't become a titless dickless manlet please, that seems an awful fate
just be a based tomboy/butch if you must, and upset both paradigms that way.

>>19702657
Alla Prima 2

>>19702143
Just because you're a drop out life failure with no drive or hobbies doesn't mean everybody is

>>19702251
literal college freshman poster shop taste

Alain Badiou theses on contemporary art

https://chtodelat.org/b8-newspapers/12-69/fifteen-theses-on-contemporary-art/

>>19702165
Dasha is fucking hideous.

>>19702136
Who is that sluta? She has cute legs.

>>19702695
lmao she's a hot girl who was a hot enough girl to play a hot girl in a prestige HBO drama, lay off the porn ugly fatass

>>19702708
Fuck off, Adam.

>>19702698
I don't know, unfortunately

>>19702673
It's kinda overrated. More of a book on 'how to be a painter' than mechanics of making paintings. Seems aimed at romantics who long to paint, of which there more than actual effort-made painters. Harold speed and kenyon cox have much more relevant work.

>>19702136
The success of this bitch as an actress is proof that leftists can get away with saying anything as long as ultimately they remain loyal to the blue team.

>>19702698
>>19702745
Dasha Nekrasova

>>19702708
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=team+dasha

parasocial simp

>>19702758
In real life people don't give a fuck about your political opinions. They just hire whoever is more talented/fitting for the position. It just happens that leftists are usually more educated and better prepared. But no one is closing doors to right wingers just because of their opinions.

>>19702758
You have no idea what you're talking about because you have a boomer tier grasp of not only online politics, but politics in general. She is by no means "blue team". And what you think "leftist" means is actually what liberal means. You're right that she's a leftist, but it shows how clueless you are that you think means she's a vote blue no matter who Democrat.

>>19702165
your duty is to devote yourself to such a great man, you should be proud to serve him

>>19702825
It's like /pol/tards are incapable of understanding that the people in power are liberals, not leftists. Dasha is a leftist, not a liberal, and actual leftists face much more persecution from liberals than right wingers, unless they are generally schizoid like Qtards.

>>19702849
>leftists face much more persecution from liberals than right wingers
Yeah like the trust fund kiddies of the Weathermen who all got cushy jobs and decades of ass-patting for being in the Weathermen.

The left has been the useful idiots of finance capital since the '20s. It has had zero authentic connection to labor for a century. It's entirely for 1968er bourgeois university students.

>>19702849
Liberals ARE right wingers. The GOP would be considered far right in any european country.

>>19702825
bro did my homie Alex fuck both of them at the same time??

>>19702878
LMAO this is how I know you're American you think that Europe is a socialist utopia

>>19702876
>It's entirely for 1968er bourgeois university students.
You know those university students still have to pay rent and they don't own a factory in the city, right? By definition they are not bourgeois. They are what it's called the intellectual proletariat. Read a book for once, retard.

>>19702849
I know, /pol/tards are becoming way more tedious than in the past, it's like a bunch of dads migrated from The Donald and then seeped into the rest of the site to confuse every "leftist" for Rachel Maddow enjoyers.

>>19702878
Liberals are centrist

>>19702849
this isn't the cold war anymore, stop pretending the establishment is still against you, you are the establishment now just because they're not going full stalinist retard level doesn't mean you aren't the elites now

>>19702893
Go to europe, american boy.

>>19702901
Most of the ruling parties in Europe are liberal lol

>>19702909
And they are right winger too. Europe is right wing. America is far right.

>>19702892
/pol/tards live in a bubble. They are incapable of understanding nuance. They unironically believe that everyone who voted for Biden is in the same camp when it's obviously not the case. Many leftists voted for him as a vote against Trump, but that doesn't mean we don't hate Biden and what he represents too. We just recognized he was the lesser evil and that we can undermine him from the inside.

>>19702136
Schiller's aesthetic education of man is probably the best theory of art ever written down, but in a more general sense there is no one thinker best for an artist. Given any concept, we can always discover it's drama. Read whatever and whoever.

>>19702932
>we can undermine him from the inside
How's that going for you?

>>19702899
Liberals and leftists want completely different worlds, actual leftists (like Dasha used to be, I'm not sure anymore; but like Liz Franzcak and Brace Belden if we have to put it in podcaster terms) are closer to Fascism than they are the establishment. That whole horseshoe thing is true.

>>19702932
Biden is unironically more right wing than Trump was.

>>19702946
Pretty well actually. It's a win-win situation. We avoided another 4 years of Trump, and the worse Biden does, the more likely the next president will be an actual progressive.

>>19702912
Left and right represent a false dichotomy.

>>19702957
>the worse Biden does, the more likely the next president will be an actual progressive.
giga cope.

>>19702967
>Biden promises a lot of progressive politics
>doesn't do shit and people get mad at him
>AOC, Warren or Sanders run saying they will actually implement them
>People believe them because they have been saying the same things from forever
>They win
How is that cope? It's just chess.

>>19702948
It's well known that Red Scare are just straight up cryptofascists, with meme ML leanings because of coming from Soviet countries. Especially earlier on it was more transparent, Dasha talked about how violence turned her on and retweeted Mishima stuff, Anna (the less intelligent of the two) openly read BAP (gag me). They're more subtle about it now, mainly because of Dasha's career, but the fashy undertones very strongly distinguish them from other characters in the same sphere.

>>19702948
"Actual leftists" are nobodies who are only allowed to exist because they help the cathedral.

>>19702890
Thanks for proving the point that you out of touch bohemian faggots have completely coopted "workers' rights." This is why workers don't even recognize you and will join whatever the next flavor of national socialism to arise is.

Enjoy your tranny shit while it lasts, and remember when all your fair weather liberal friends and corporate consumerist allies turn on you as soon as it's no longer expedient to use you as a smokescreen, you have only yourself to blame.

>>19703006
Ok. I'm not talking about effectiveness, just philosophy.

>>19702136
Are you interested in art, or philosophy of art? They're two separate things. Also, what sort of art do you make / are you passionate about?

>>19703001
And they are tolerated because by the end of the day they are still part of the cathedral. Meanwhile, people in Hollywood can't openly support team red no matter how inane their views are. The whole thing is so ridiculous that Dasha can take a pic with Alex Jones and it's fine because she's team blue, but people get butthurt about Chris Pratt going to church because he's team red.

>>19703035
And how is that working for you? Things keep moving to the left and that won't suddenly change.

>>19703077
Stop being so fucking dense. Dasha is not "team blue". She is a leftist, not a liberal. Leftists hate liberals. And are you really pretending that Chris Pratt, who stars in two of Hollywood biggest franchises, is more oppressed than Dasha, an actual leftists who get shit from both liberals and alt righters? Take your meds.

>>19703070
I'm interested in both

At the moment my work is with sound/light installation. I'm a composer as well.

>>19703077
>the cathedral
This is your brain in Moldbug. Imagine being this fucking dumb.

>>19702343
>study the academics
What do you think he's doing? The academics aren't relevant anymore in art. The fact he's asking for more than Nietzsche shows he isn't an artist. He could maybe try the bible as millions of artist were raised on it, but ultimately you aren't going to read yourself into an artist.

>>19702136
Read Whistler's Ten O'Clock Lecture
https://www.whistler.arts.gla.ac.uk/miscellany/tenoclock/

>>19702890
neck yourself, truly

>>19702948
>actual leftists ... are closer to Fascism than they are the establishment.
All genuine leftists end up as fascists, national syndicalists, national socialists, or some other variant of third positionism at the end of the day. Anti-national internationalism is a dogma of the utopian left, and one that doesn't even make sense since intelligent leftists obviously think that integral "communities" will organically arise within any international socialist order anyway, on the basis of concrete human differences (ethnicities, cultures, religions, languages, whatever).

Such communities already exist and most of their inhabitants are perfectly happy with them. Frenchmen like being French, so let them stay French. Love of one's countrymen, culture, religion, or traditions doesn't negate love of one's fellow workers, anymore than it negates love of one's coreligionists, or co-regionals for that matter. Nor does "irrational" love of one's own family negate commitment to working class solidarity or broader humanitarianism. In fact, each successive, concentric circle of "irrational" attachments (one's family, neighbourhood, community, church, nation, region, linguistic or ethnic group, religion, etc.) is a powerful means of organising and disseminating working class solidarity. Unions were most powerful when they were a family and community affair.

The idea that the family unit, the nation, the religion, and nowadays even gender have to be destroyed to make way for a workers' movement is an autistic fixation of a bourgeois, utopian strain of the left that has unfortunately usurped its leadership for a long time. All real, robust leftist movements were free of this cancer, and they immediately became ineffectual and bourgeois, the purview of LARPing neoliberals and ivory tower intellectuals, once the cancer set in.

>>19703227
Why? Because I'm right and you don't like getting humiliated by a girl? The bourgeois class by definition own the means of productions. Intellectuals are not bourgeois.

>>19703128
I'm not sure what you can do with that other than something along the lines of immersion, which honestly is almost a complete denial of the conscious and probably not as life-affirming as you would like. Maybe look into some of the work and writing of the minimalists, who were, by and large, ex-military art historians and theorists. Either way you're probably better off looking at artist's writing and previous works of art. It's very difficult to implement a philosophy in a work without just writing it out to justify the work separately - and by that point you've already lost.

>>19702136
I think Adorno would actually be of some use to you. For Adorno, art is liberating and objective... but the modern world is so warped that even art has been tainted. So whilst art is not as complete as it could be, it is nonetheless our only hope of autonomy and salvation.

>>19703340
>Adorno
I don't read leftist. NEXT.

>>19703357
Reeeeeeeeee. Adorno during his lifetime was criticized by both sides of politics. But Adorno works within a Kantian framework and extends many of the arguments that Nietsche makes, with specific relevance to the OP question. I think stepping outside of a narrow view of the political spectrum would be useful here. Because if you want to know how objective art is possible in a world that is destroyed by the taint of modernist subjectivism, the Frankfurt school is the only academic group that legitimately tackled the question, rather than simply acting like it doesn't exist.

>>19703389
>Adorno during his lifetime was criticized by both sides of politics
Don't care. Still a leftist.

>>19703399
Proper critique still requires an understanding of what it is that you are arguing against. I once again do insist that you read Adorno, but I acknowledge that you are under no obligation to listen to sound advice.

>I'm looking for a continuation of Nietzsche's idea of art as the objective and affirmation of life.
I really don't think many right wing philosophers or writers are going to be making this point. They are all on about g*d or some shit or how art is degenerate.
Once again, I beseech thee to consider for a second that the answer you are looking for is Adorno

>>19702165
ftm won't make you a man. sadly, you are but yourself. being a man is not one thing. It is however to be cruel and someone compassionate enough to give in to their principal longing (such as to be their most content and least suffering, their ideal selves) cannot be cruel in the way required.

As a man who has the utmost highest aspirations and for some reason can't stomach to just end it instead of suffering (can't even get over his dick to write had though he damn well knows it's over), which I take as some kind of affirmation (nonetheless), I can't recommend it; you're just miserable even when you manage to get to another 'top' and 'win' again. There is always more and for most of us there is simply not enough youth or time in life, not enough possibility, it's simple mathematics all in all, to get to that final top, final victory and this misguided dream of contentment.
People tend to give up quickly after their youth when they're not dreamers; and dreamers suffer the worst because they don't, most of them die alone and unfulfilled with a world built in their heads that is to perish with them in an instant at the end of consciousness: when the dream dies with its dreamer, nothing is lost to the world.

>>19702136
I truly think Girls are Deeply retarded

>>19702758
It's obvious you have never listened to her podcast. She's a real leftist, not just a liberal larping as one. She's against the system. If she's making it as an actress is purely because she's so talented and magnetic that they can't deny it, even if they hate her politics.

>>19704090
It's hilarious how right wingers are the biggest defenders of meritocracy but then cry because there are not enough right wingers in Hollywood. Perhaps you should learn to act then.

>>19702136
Labelling yourself as anything is cringy, stop identifying with it.
>>19702251
Yeah, then go make art that "yells into the void", buddy.

>>19702400
You're a moron.

>>19702888
I think Europe is far more socialist than the US but I don’t think that makes it a utopia, I agree with anon that american right would be considered radical if in EU

>>19702328
>You have to go to school to produce art

Hegel and Kant's writings on aesthetics remain relevant I would say, and easier to grasp than their metaphysics.

>>19702754
It gives an ideology and a history of painting before it teaches anything else

>>19704624
How without master apprentice relationship we would still be finger painting in caves, how the discovery of shadows was slow to take hold because the prominent artist of that time wanted to maintain status quo(it gives name is not vague), it’s how they made their living they didn’t want change, and so on down the line, I won’t be able to sum up the book in just a few sentences but it’s far more than painting instruction

>>19702957
>the worse Biden does, the more likely the next president will be an actual progressive.

sensiblechuckle.jpg

>>19704558
You're brainwashed. But, elaborate. Do you think Warhol achieved more than W Homer?

>>19704624
>>19704635
Right, I'm saying that for a work-producing artist, the mechanics of representation are more important to learn at first than history or ideology. If you can learn only one, mechanics or background, obviously mechanics is more important to make paintings. The ideology & history is important to learn in order to really excel, but first you should know where to put the colors. Most art students I have come across can go on and on about history and ideology but can't draw a likeness from observation.

>>19704769
>elaborate
The argument that there's a trend in western art from representational art to non-representational art and this is somehow related to the quality of western art can only be put forward by a person that is completely unfamiliar with the western art tradition. Western Art has always and will always be primarily about the ideas that the art pieces embody if you can't see that then you're doing a massive disservice to art as a whole and western culture in particular. This retarded insistence that somehow the material takes precedence over the ideational is so stupid that if you had any honour at all you would permanently retire in embarrassment from art commentary, thinking and literacy. You faggots claim to love European culture and yet you know nothing about it, nothing. The primacy of the material is the home of nihilistic, faithless, simplistic morons. Your analyses claim to be against modernity and yet you do nothing but re-produce it because you are its products. Disgusting. Culture is more than some pose you can put on for your based and red-pilled twitter followers. It's not something you can just decide to be. It takes study and work and learning to understand the depth of our tradition.

>>19703167
Based Enemy-maker

>>19704827
Okay, so do you think cy twombly or basquiat are more, less or equally deserving of veneration as Caillebotte or Botke?

Do you think it was wise for the art education institutions in the west to literally destroy and throw into the river the collections of plaster casts used to teach students to draw?

Btw I'm not based or redpilled, I voted biden.

>>19702136
>idea of art as the objective and affirmation of life.
Nicolae Iorga

>>19704128
>what is nepotism

>>19703001
Literally the opposite. Anna is clearly more intelligent than Dasha is.

>>19704613
yes, you do.

>>19704090
>If she's making it as an actress is purely because she's so talented and magnetic that they can't deny it

>that pic
Ich bin deutsch, mag ander deutsche aber nicht.

>>19705643
Dasha is soo cute

>>19705698
She's fugly and talentless. She should be thrown into a gulag and experience what true suffering is.

>>19705702
I disagree

>>19702899
Where the fuck is my socialized healthcare and non-car based infrastructure then you fucking chud

>>19702957
>>19702977
Shit man have you been paying attention? Biden's complete inability and/or unwillingness to implement actual leftist reforms will do nothing but turn people off from them as a whole. Hell most of this retarded country think socialized healthcare is basically communism while also preening about fucking social security

>>19705691
Was ist das? Machen sie kein Sinn.

>>19705734
Keep saying that to yourself, but the more zoomers vote, the more progressive we will get. The political compass always move left. There may be some corrections here and there like Trump or Reagan, but in the long run the left always win. We're serial winners.

>>19705643
She's so cute. If you don't stan Dasha you must go back to r*ddit.

>>19707335
Tranny shill always posting the same Twitter catchphrases

>>19707335
She's reddit incarnate.

Don't listen to them Dasher!

There's a lot of dud and joke answers in thies thread.. I would go with some poetry or alain de botton's book art as therapy, way less obtuse and bullshit than suggestions here

>>19704769
Sometimes getting inspiration can help get through the process of learning mechanics

>>19702136
What is this beautiful white woman doing?

>>19707843
Saving socialism.

>>19702136
She’s so fat and ugly. Truly looks like a pig

>>19702165
you've got the wrong slant, but you've come across an important & essential truth

>>19702825
>And what you think "leftist" means is actually what liberal means
This. Liberals are of the most irritating kind. There is practically nothing they won't defend, except actual leftism, of course.

When considering this I often imagine a squad of communist militias getting ready to shoot the last fascist, when they encounter him hiding behind a liberal with a big shield that says "free speech". The fascist has a shit-eating grin, while the liberal bears a look of genuine worry.

>>19708060
meds

>>19705691
Wieso magst du mich nicht??

>>19702136
>I'm looking for a continuation of Nietzsche's idea of art as the objective and affirmation of life

Read Schopenhauer then.

>>19702136
what drink is that?

>>19702164
PYW

>>19702251
have sex

>>19703340
I have Adorni's Aesthetics laying around somewhere. Should actually try and read it. It was a fucking slog last time I tried though.

>>19702136
As a fellow artist, here’s a list of readings you might want to look into with regards to art. There’s no reading order, read whichever one you like first and decide on it.

Arthur Schopenhauer’s World as will and representation vol.1-2, focus specifically his theory of Aesthetics.

Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy.

Pope John Paul 2’s A letter to Artists.

Leo Tolstoy’s essay, “What is Art?”

Edmund Burke’s “Inquiry into the Sublime”

John Dewey’s “On art as experience”

Roger Scruton’s “Why Beauty Matters” documentary. I know he also has a book on art that I read for College, can’t find the name though, sorry.

Have fun!

>>19702485
Scruton was influenced by Burke.

>>19703128
>I'm interested in both
How about Joseph Campbell? I think his work.would be inspirational for any artist. He's influenced many song writers, musicians, and filmmakers. He wasn't a philosopher though; he was a professor of literature, a writer and lecturer who worked in comparative mythology and comparative religion. Carl Jung's theories had a big influence on his work. Incidentally, Campbell was a close friend of John Steinbeck (until he banged Steinbeck's wife, Carol).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell
>Campbell often referred to the work of modern writers James Joyce and Thomas Mann in his lectures and writings, as well as to the art of Pablo Picasso.
>The works of Arthur Schopenhauer and Friedrich Nietzsche had a profound effect on Campbell's thinking; he quoted their writing frequently.

I'd watch the 1988 PBS documentary Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth if you can. The book "the Power of Myth" is based on it. I recommend his book The Hero with a Thousand Faces, too.

if nothing else, your post made me think of this quote of his:
>Life as an art and art as a game––as action for its own sake, without thought of gain or of loss, praise or blame––is the key, then, to the turning of living itself into a yoga, and art into the means to such a life. -- Joseph Campbell, Myths to Live By

>>19702136
Schopenhauer
Mainlander
Spinoza

>>19702136
нoт гoннa лaй, пoняшил бы в пoпoтaн

>>19713294
Bepи клeвep.

>>19702831
This
Become Cleopatra
>Succ n fucc so gud men topple regimes and revolutionise the world order for Ur touch

>>19702136
Well how the fuck are you reading? and why. just keep that in mind and then extend the question to everything you do. but not in a shitty pedantic way. so you need to know what the fuck you are doing, where you want to go. then just listen to yourself. also talk to people and walk in the woods

>>19702687
based Baddiou
also: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-rise-of-bad-figurative-painting