/lit/ - Literature

>must be turn off

The Nag Hammadi Library.

>>19682480
Which codices and texts specifically? So far I've read the gospel of Thomas.

>>19682486
Start with pic related.

Then read Jonas. Then Sloterdijk's chapter on gnosticism in After God (chapter 4 or so).

Then it's just a matter of putting his ideas together.

physically impossible to turn of the machine. We are just projections, specter byproducts of its workings. It would be like if memories became self aware.

>>19682486
Woops.

Knowledge will find you.

>>19682506
>>19682510
Gotcha. I think I have a decent grasp on what I would call theoretical or theological gnosticism. At this point my main concern is
>how the fuck do I get out of the Matrix?

>>19682458
There are psychoanalytic papers about the schizophrenic's effort to worldbuild where the other has failed.

>>19682529
>>how the fuck do I get out of the Matrix?
By rejecting the world instead of seeking to come back to it, but I suspect anyone with enough discernment to ask this question is getting out anyway.

>>19682509
>>19682509
Exactly, we're but reflections in an infinite seeming mirror. False movement is all, as everything has already been predicted and anticipated and occurred. Even out thoughts are repetitions of a self-perpetuating recurrence.

>>19682892
The video in the OP talks about precisely this, but mentions that there is, paradoxically, an escape

>>19682476
This

>>19682458
LEAVE THE DEMIURGE ALONE HE DID IT FOR YOUR SAKE

>>19682905
Fuck the demiurge

>>19682895
That sounds like a guy lost in his own stories, though he's ultimately hopeful. There isn't a final view on reality like that, even at that level, perhaps even especially at that level, the mind shapes reality.

>>19682458
https://lampbylit.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/SP.pdf

Enjoy

>>19683590
That was great. And inspiring.

>>19682931
>>19682905
>le retards making le epic demiurge meemposting
The definition of boring.

>>19684306
You should check the definition of definition.

>>19684316
>le retard is pedantic and plays dumb
So tedious that I am going to close the thread.

>>19684329
>plays
You just can't stop being wrong can you?

>>19684346
LOL XD XD

>>19682458
a vague allegorical self-disgust at some part of his inner psyche

>>19683536
I think whether there actually is a physical machine creating reality isn't really the point anyway

>>19684899
Huh?

>>19685314
it's typical "red-pill" nonsense
waahh "materialism" is a veil/curse/necrosis and i need to excise it, or move beyond it (to somewhere that's never revealed)
nonsense like that
schizophrenia has nothing to do with it btw

>>19685368
>"materialism" is a veil/curse/necrosis
Well yes. You're not a materialist, are you?

>>19685372
materialists are just anyone happens to not be waiting around for godot, so yes

>>19685394
Materialism is inherently self-refuting

>>19682458
what book is pic related?

Gnosticism (in the very broad sense and including the prison planet pain matrix /x/ stuff) is depressing when you start looking into it, and then it becomes a beacon of hope. Anyone else feel that way?

>>19685406
ask the materialist tripfaggot to describe what he means by "waiting for godot" and you'll irrevocably out him as the typical reddit pseud

>>19684782
Foaming.

>>19682458
I started reading the golem by Gustav Meyrink. Anyone here has read the green face ? Ive heard many gnostics praising it

Why be a gnostic when you can be a real christian?

>>19686263
Well i'm a real Khristian, that is a disciple of king Khristos-Lucifer

>>19686263
Christianity is incoherent and frankly just obviously and intuitively false to anyone who hasn't been raised in it. There's nothing about it that resonates as a genuine spiritual truth, since my childhood and up to now the Christian dogma has left me indifferent because of how jarringly mundane it is. It has always just felt like a made-up or at least significantly doctored story about desert people and their mundane, uninteresting idea of divinity. There are some interesting things here and there, like in John (which is just rebranded Platonism) or in the Psalms but the religion as a whole just does absolutely nothing for me. It strikes me as complete bullshit from start to finish.
I just can't seem to entertain the idea that the entirety of existence, the full scope of possibilities in this reality and all others, can be summed up by the story of a few quarreling middle-eastern tribes. It seems so ridiculous and petty, especially when compared to other takes from other religions, or even the fucking 30 minute schizo video from the OP. Even that has a more complete and compelling lore than the Bible.
Non-abrahamic metaphysical systems touch upon something genuine and deep. Christianity doesn't.

>>19682905
who's this blonde guy? is that a tinfoil hat over his head?

>>19685785
It's a doctrine of salvation, so yes. It teaches that a rebirth is possible if you abandon all (worldly) hope.

>>19686313
Can you point us to how the Gospel of John contains elements of rebranded platonism? Regarding your point on how the Bible depicts the peoples ancient Near East, I have to say that many revered oriental texts are also guilty of ignoring more distant parts of the world (e.g. Mahābhārata with the wars of the Pandavas).

>>19682458
Play Sunless Sea

>>19686331
He's the avatar used for gnostics on this basket weaving forum and, yes, that's a tinfoil hat.

>>19686367
I think John 1:1 is the most commonly cited example of greek philosophy influencing (canonical) scripture.
>ignoring more distant parts of the world
Yes, it would be stupid to claim that these religions do not consider their own cultural setting to be important, but the key point is that the cultural background is not an integral (necessary) part of the truth being conveyed by the religious teachings, whereas in Christianity it is.
Even if you know nothing about Buddhist terminology, history, liturgy and ritualism, or the culture of Buddhist countries, it does not stop you from realizing the alleged truths taught by Buddhism. Siddhartha's life having taken place is not necessary for his teachings to be true.
On the other hand, you cannot be a Christian if you do not believe the stories told in the Bible aren't the truth, and if you don't believe that everything comes down to the life of a single man two millennia ago on this particular planet. Seems like a restricted and narrow worldview to me that automatically precludes taking anything larger into account.

>>19686395
oh. i thought he was a caricaturized version of an esoteric author i might enjoy reading. thanks for responding to my post.

>>19686379
There are a lot of gnostic video games

>>19686359
>if you abandon all (worldly) hope.
Once all hope has been abandoned, what is there to do? Kill myself?

>>19686407

>>19686835
I think abandoning hope is a step toward gnosis. If one doesn't prematurely kill oneself one has the chance to re-integrate with a higher order of things. The cost is of course a permanent estrangement from the world that can be labelled as schizoid. The original point was that gnosticism isn't exclusively a pessimist philosophy.

>>19686891
The only attachment I have left to the world is my concern towards those I love, which prevents me from exiting prematurely. Were they not here, I wouldn't even hesitate.
But I already feel that estrangement. There's nothing I want from the world, aside from enough temporary comfort to allow me to live without too much pain until death comes by itself. I feel pressure from outside to participate in the world and I feel no reason or desire to do so.
I wonder how much of this estrangement comes from a noble sentiment, and how much of it is bitter hatred I'm using as an excuse to withdraw. Although I don't think it really matters anyway.

>>19686861
What are the purple and brown pills exactly?

>>19686397
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, I remember there was a really hostile Orientalist who espoused a very negative view towards Christianity, and I was worried that you might not respond in good faith. Once again, thanks. I can see your viewpoint and I understand it a little better now. So you would say that the primary disadvantage of Christianity is that it is overly focused on historical contingencies rather than eternal truths, right? That's what I gathered from your post. To your first point, I'll just say that you don't have to believe everything is completely historical, although extrabiblical traditions might assert it to be so. I think a good reply to the second point is obvious - Christ is what the Indians would call 'Brahman' - ultimate reality. It doesn't take much to realize why such a person, if afforded that identification, would have so much attention payed to him.

>>19687016
Wizard and Monk

>>19686455
Really?

>>19687116
>overly focused on historical contingencies rather than eternal truths
To put it succinctly, yes, but I think that this has certain implications that effectively prevent Christianity from being all-encompassing in its scope, invalidating it entirely. To base an entire soteriological system on a sequence of historical events centers the system around time and space, both of which are insubstantial. It's confused and tedious, but I've watched the video in the OP and it actually makes a decent point of going into detail about how time, space, and even components of our particular ontology (how this world is, by which manner it exists) like causality are entirely meaningless and manufactured, and that they cannot be anything else than that. With some /x/ fluff added on top, but the basics are there.
An eternal truth is necessarily external to this world-system. If the purported truth depends on the world to exist, then it is only a set of arbitrary axioms that prop the world up but hold no meaning outside of it. This is why God being subordinate to the Logos according to Thomists is ridiculous.
I'm not a Buddhist, but I like Buddhism because they understand this (especially the Theravadins) and cling to it fervently through such things as the tetralemma. The lengths to which they go in order to avoid describing Nirvana in order to drive that point home are the best I've seen. It's not simply a matter of apophatic theology (I'm aware of Christians believing Jesus bridges humanity and God) but of theology itself being impossible "within the world". The issue with Christianity is that the entire system hinges upon history, i.e. upon the world and its Logos, which I think you can understand why it makes it seem insignificant to me.
Pursuant to that, regarding your second point, Christ being the ultimate reality isn't in itself the issue. The issue is that the identification of Christ with a person/historical nexus/window of time and space and to that only (making it the center of everything) places this world at the center of the soteriological project, which I can never accept. To put it another way, I think salvation is decentralized.

>>19683590
PEPENIS
E
P
E
N
I
S

>>19682480
I have a physical copy and read it. Probably legit however these days I believe that trying to achieve gnosis doesnt actually bring any happiness.
You reach a new level of conciousness each time you go past the spiritual hurdles and being able to conceptualise things and then comes the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and the next thing.

The truth about gnosis is that it is never ever fully achievable and it is a never ending upgrade of inner and outer understanding. There is never ever a point where you just sit there and realise you have "achieved gnosis". It is incredibly cyclical and even within stages of it it is cyclical. I will try to put it into words:
>Meditate on a concept
>Formulate concept in your mind finding language and imagery to describe it to yourself
>Gain a grasp of the concept
>Realise there is an infinitely larger concept to now do the same thing all over again.

Gnostics of the time of Jesus were incredibly ill informed about a lot of stuff compared to someone who wants to learn today. We live in the era of Knowledge itself. We live in the Gnostic Era and because of that you will never reach a point where you are a fully fledged "gnostic" because the information is limitless.
Here is a meme to lighten the mood

Obligatory

>>19687323
The goal of gnosis isn't happiness, it's liberation

>>19687243
This is a lot to take in for me. I'll mull over it for sometime, but your core objection about eternal truths being expressed with the help of historical contingencied has raised some doubts in me.

>>19687386
Yeah but I explained in the post that it neither brings happiness or liberation because its a never ending cycle of thought experiments.

>>19687016
Basically >>19687200 but to clarify Purple pill encompasses the use of esoterica and demonology for worldy influence and effects over the course of the physical world, so it's very popular with The Elites™. Brown Pill on the other hand is about elevating your spiritual "footprint" in the material world, although not exerting direct influence over it (like the Purple Pill), and like a hermit's it's a path turned inwards.

>>19687561
>elevating your spiritual "footprint" in the material world
What's the difference with the greenpill?

>>19687561
Does the word "esoteric" make anyone else feel really unwell?
Idk why but it sounds so disgusting and pretentious desu even though its not at all fake or bad.
Just something about that word sounds really pretentious and makes me feel queezy. I wish it didnt. When I was looking into esoterica I had the same thoughts from the beginning.

>>19687566
Although the pic doesn't betray it "Green Pill" is usually related to gnosis and the general wish to escape material existence and return to the pleroma, while the "Brown Pill" is usually linked to paths that are quite content to remain on the Demiurge's temple (Samsara) for whatever reason, but seek spiritual enlightenment so that they may control their place on it.

>>19687594
That's probably just some bad association you make with the word, did your cultural upbringing condemn such pursuits? Even people who consciously reject their previous worldview will usually have their thought patterns influenced by it. I myself feel no such thing towards the word or the concept of esoteric knowledge

>>19687595
Why would you choose to remain in the matrix if you were aware that an escape is possible?

>>19687615
Nah its nothing cultural at all since it was never spoken about. I found out about it independently

>>19687675
Because escape at all costs is built entirely on the premise that material existence is absolutely undesirable. A lie. Many paths recognize the world as worthwhile, as something to be cherished, and many others see it as purposeful, something to be endured or mastered for the sake of something greater, some others even see themselves as a medium to help others "escape" before they too go. It's in these paths that the "Brown Pill" exist, it's not a coherent movement or ideology, rather being made up of several wishes and philosophical views that agree on the need for attaining power over the cycle of life and death, even if you remain within it.

>>19687747
>material existence is absolutely undesirable
It's absolutely unsatisfactory.

>>19687806
I know it's hard to believe anon, but some of us actually like it here.

>>19687806
It's designed to be unsatisfactory on its own; only combined with spiritual contentment is it a wonderful place.

>>19682480
It is essentially Pbuh's Advaita Vedanta but Christian

>>19687861
Will you still like it when you come back as a baby with harlequin ichthyosis?

>>19682458
THE FIRST SIN IS NOT KNOWING,
IT IS THE WANT TO KNOW.
THE HUNGER THAT HAS DRIVEN MAN SINCE HE FIRST ATTAINED SENTIENCE.
IN KNOWING A TRUTH HE BECOMES A PRISONER TO IT, THOUGH WHAT CAN BE ASSERTAINED AS TRUTH OUTSIDE OF THE CONFINES OF YOUR OWN BODY.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, MY BRAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN.

>>19687870
There is no "I" for that to even happen anon, that's not how rebirth works. Either way in such cases the only evil at play is that of the adults who are too cowardly to do what they must and instead let the child live a bad life.

>>19687909
>There is no "I" for that to even happen anon, that's not how rebirth works.
This isn't a Buddhism thread

My Diary Desu

I regret knowing certain things

>>19687916
And I'm not a Buddhist, so what's your point?

>>19687924
The doctrine of rebirth as you're explaining it is a Buddhist interpretation

>>19687867
>spiritual contentment
This is a very vague term, what do you mean?
There is an inherent "something missing" in life. No matter what you do, there's still this yearning.

>>19687243
You seem like a smart guy. Drop a reading list please

>>19687928
It really isn't, for Buddhists there is a spiritual unit that's stripped of ego and reborn in another form, to simplify it. However the spirit isn't a whole thing on its own to be able to reincarnate, specially after stripping it of the ego, which is precisely what keeps it together as a coherent being instead of a collection of thought forms. Once dead the spirit is subject to lake of fire we r ad so much about in myth, that is what burns away the identity and unity of the spirit and allows it's constituent forms to pass on. All that can be possibly called "I" is destroyed upon death, we cease to exist. At least that's how it's supposed to be, through spiritual practices or a strong enough ego (extreme attachments) it is possible to shield your spirit, or at least portions of it, so that they may be reborn not as loose base elements that can be freely reformed, by as pre-arrenged packages of spirit, that carry on elements of the previous life into the next. However, that is not, unless you're able to preserve most if not all of your self, an unitary reincarnation like Buddhists propose. If we use Theseus's Ship as an analogy it would be similar to the ship wrecking and somebody else salvaging the wood to build a new one, the difference is that the original ship being broken down to individual planks before reassembly or having some intact sections reused in their equivalent roles as is.

>>19687909
Never understood why they say there is no "I" in rebirth.
Its the same conciousness reincarnating itself so in essence it is "I" but just in a new vessel with a blank slate. There very much is an "I" but it has amnesia.

I love the Journies Out of Body series by Robert Monroe.

>>19688020
Good stuff
The dude rediscovered gnosticism with his own experiences and never realized what he had actually gotten into

>>19688008
>an unitary reincarnation like Buddhists propose.
u wot m8

>>19688125
One being reincarnates into another.
>A single existence dies
>is reincarnated
>A new singular existence is born

>>19688258
It's not really reincarnation though, nothing ties the old life to the new one except "karmic seeds" and the storehouse consciousness shit which has always seemed like a cope to me anyway.

>>19688020
>>19688022
What I find weird is that he stuck to his "earth school" narrative even after discovering it was a prison

>>19684329
You're mad as fuck and acting pretentious on an anime websites book board

>>19688400
The point anon, is that the concept that one existence reincarnates into another is false on the whole, the building blocks of your soul are reused, maybe in several new beings, to the point that unless you've achieved enough mastery over the cycle to consistently preserve at least a spiritual core (or preferably the entirety of your self) after death any notion of continuity between lives is simply absurd

>>19686455
>>19687215
What about gnostic movies?

>>19688726

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy3190dKEK4

>>19688726
Twin Peaks

>>19686221
Julius Evola highly praised Meyrink's novels for its esoteric insights too.

>>19688011
Consciousness is a material state, the result of chemical reactions within the the biological computer you call a brain and as everything material its existence is transitory, having a beginning and an end, which comes in death. It does not persist through the cycle. The spirit is something beyond consciousness, it's the divinity that exists within all of creation, the defining element that makes something "be", and it is it that persists through the cycle.

>>19682458
>/schizolit/
cringe

>>19687977
Talk about this discontent with God. Don't be afraid to take Him to task on how you feel life is unfair. He's God, he'll be fine.

>>19682905
>>19682931
>>19684306
Pow!

>>19686397
The Bhagavad Gita is fucking incoherent unless you buy into the idea of dharma and the caste system. It's the same thing.

>>19686397
You say that, but I am not convinced. There are many, many secular, western Buddhists who deny most of the basic tenets of Buddhism. No rebirth, no karma. They believe life is suffering, but that death is the true ending, and they do not see how the obvious solution would then be to either commit suicide or kill others to end their suffering. In theory, you might be able to be a practicing Buddhist outside of a certain cultural setting, but in practice many if not most of the Buddhists from outside that culture are effectively new age cultists, even if they're in denial about the end results of their own beliefs.

Where are my goethean science chads at, and why aren't the jungian analysts and klages acolytes posting?

>>19689382
Those people are more often than not bandwagoners who associate with Buddhism for aesthetic reasons, or as a cultural rebellion against their own culture, they don't have the slightest clue about what they claim to believe in. I've legitimately heard from someone who (claimed to at least) studied in an actual temple that Buddhism has no "supernatural" elements, unlike Christianism with its Angels and Hell. Quite pathetic all things considered.