/lit/ - Literature

>>19666281
Frankfurt school were self-confessed Sabbateans.

>>19666281
>t. authoritarian personality with hurt fee fees

didn't read lol

>>19666281
it makes you feel nostalgic compared with todays leftists who will call you a bigot for not watching diverse and progressive shows on netflix or supporting blatant lgbt child molestation or lining up behind poptimist hip hop music and the democratic party platform or even daring to have thoughts of your own. its like having the degradation of humanity being forced down your throat but now you have to like it.

>>19666281
adorno and fanon predicted buckbreaking,

>>19666281
>The Frankfurt School's interpretation of fascism as the final stage of capitalism either ignores liberal democracy or it conflates fascism and liberal democracy, and that's just plain wrong. Look at Nazi Germany, look at the United States, there are more differences than similarities.

desperate cope from a nation of child bombing pedophile libertines

>>19666348
leftists are just aspiring managers, little epsteins in waiting, their only disagreement with the elite is that they think its their turn to be the ones doing the child molestation and genocide and slavery.

>>19666281
False.

>>19666377
Fantastic argument, sir.

>>19666281
>he tells us in fact that it's a really carefully hidden castration complex.
he knew about buckbreaking and he tried to warn us, but we didnt listen

>>19666281
>conflates fascism and liberal democracy, and that's just plain wrong
I staunchly disagree, present your argument.

>>19666373
>little epsteins
Kek

>>19666402
Fascists have commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism and relegate it to the state. However, fascism does support private property rights and the existence of a market economy and very wealthy individuals. Thus, fascist ideology included both pro-capitalist and anti-capitalist elements.

>>19666281
That's not a very accurate or charitable interpretation of Adorno's thoughts on jazz. Here is his single most famous quote with respect to jazz:

>"The aim of jazz is the mechanical reproduction of a regressive moment, a castration symbolism. 'Give up your masculinity, let yourself be castrated,' the eunuchlike sound of the jazz band both mocks and proclaims, 'and you will be rewarded,' accepted into a fraternity which shares the mystery of impotence with you, a mystery revealed at the moment of the initiation rite."

What he's saying is that mass-culture in general had become a tool of capitalist "technocratic rationality" or "technical rationality" in which the "culture industry" created a simulation of art which was specifically designed to serve the goals of the power system. It did so by replacing "real" art with carefully-managed products which kept consumers docile.

However, to appear credible as "art," the culture industry had to make it appear individualized, when in fact, it was very mechanistically patterned. He called this "pseudo-individuation."

He saw jazz as being very much psuedo-individuated. Although its form and content was quite regimented, jazz insisted that its own basis was one of "improvisation." Adorno felt that this was a huge lie.

He said that jazz held out the promise of rebellion and hedonism to its listeners, but in fact, these dangerous impulses were neutered - "castrated," as he sometimes said - by the culture industry's system of technocratic management. iIf "rebellion" becomes "jazz" rather than something more substantive, the entrenched powers within the economic order are better-able to protect their positions.

And as history shows, this was correct. After jazz came rock and roll and the invention of the 'teenager,' in which rebellion was re-construed as generational rather than economic or substantive in ANY manner. And self-described 'leftists' fell for this scam hardest of all.

Isn't Adorno just "everything I don't like is fascism"?

>>19666447
So it's a... Third Position, in other words?

>>19666452
>Give up your masculinity
>Buck breaking
Checks out

>>19666314
Kys tranny

>>19666452
>File: Gen-X.jpg
And proud of it.
She’s probably still a dumb Hillary supporter shitlib, but back in the day, Kathleen was such a babe

>>19666489
I don’t care about age difference, butters
Just as long as you can carry a child to term.

>>19666281
What would he have to say about wokeness?

>>19666489
>and proud of it
absolute cringe

>>19666452
>What he's saying is that mass-culture in general had become a tool of capitalist "technocratic rationality" or "technical rationality" in which the "culture industry" created a simulation of art which was specifically designed to serve the goals of the power system. It did so by replacing "real" art with carefully-managed products which kept consumers docile.

Absolute hogwash. Why are we to accept Adorno's perception of "real" art? He was an ivory tower idealist who was completely disconnected from the culture that birthed jazz. It is easy to look from abroad in your tweed suits and pipes and point at things and give them labels because you don't like them.

>>19666531
Not that anon but his point is essentially that Jazz is not fundamentally creative, because it's made to be just formulaic enough to be "producable" in an industrial manner.
I like jazz as well. In the right setting, it's emotionally intimate and co-creative. But the concept of fixed solo structures and regimented behaviors are a precursor to the modern system of informally regimented bass drops and scales, where pop music is highly controlled and its production totally automated.

The Frankfurt school got many things wrong but it didn't ALWAYS get them wrong.

>>19666281

Is that Alister Crowley?

Nice blog post OP, I hope you enjoyed sniffing your own farts because most of this is bullshit. It's hard to disprove shit like this because it's loaded with vague statements and strawmans without any citations or sources. Not to mention that Adorno in particular is pretty hard to read, even in German, so I'm pretty sure even if you read him his point would completely fly over your head. Still good enough for yet another /lit/ circlejerk thread I guess.

>>19666528
Why?
You hate your generation and think I should hate everything about mine?
Don’t take it too seriously. There’s a lot of dumb coming out of either of them.

>>19666589
Zoomers will be the last generation before the great reset.
Why start naming gens with X, the 3rd last letter?

>>19666589
By Jove, that's a kissable tummy.

>>19666614
I didn’t name them. “Gen X Y and Z. Teehee” stinking boomers.
We were named after brand X, X-Files, the Malcolm X movie. Zoomers were named after zoom calls

>>19666645
Didn’t say you did.
I doubt the etymology of gen-x came about like that of blunts and cones in the hood. No, there is a much greater story behind it.

>>19666666
FUCK YOU YOU FUCKIN CREEP

CHECKED, KEKED, AND REEEEEEE

>>19666666
>666666
OHHHH NICE
Well okay. What’s the story though, you think?

Jazz is so fucking stupid and gay. I say this as a musician who has played live gigs with jazz bands. Only virtuosos like Holdsworth are worthy of appreciation, by virtue of their musicianship which is not constrained to a genre. I can't stand most musicians, who are insecure and petty.

I don't give a shit what these actual j*w glowies say btw.

>>19666666
oopsie doopsie.

>>19666447
Which is precisely the modus operandi of the liberal social democratic state, class collaboration, "responsible" capital and a unified belonging of worker, owner and state, as is present in the social democratic nations of Europe today.

>>19666666
Checked. My family actually knows the nigga who came up with the term "gen X," I'm special, give me attention.

>>19666402
''liberal democracy'' is how the thing calls itself, but the thing is actually much in line with the futyranny predicted by jacob burckhardt back in the 19th century, a dictatorship of military officers and technocrats who call themselves republicans but whose power is unbound by any law or limit,

>>19666666
Wasted
Also Hitler was right

>>19666518
Hot take via adorno and foucault is that "Wokeness" just a reversion to a crude and archaic form of paternalism(think the slave plantations of old dixie). there are no limits to control and exploitation if they are grounded on supposed primordial qualities. What are these discourses of white fragility if not disciplinary discourses, were the good master (liberal white elites) attempt to compel obedience from the slaves (white and black alike) through the threat of the bad master. Gender and race become innate categories again. Ignoring the question of how these things are a product of disciplinary mechanisms designed to create productive subjects within the capitalist system.


Contrast with the old liberal paternalism of the late 20th century were it was a question of educating people to be autonomous citizens of the world, think the old BBC or PBS documentaries. You could argue it was a somewhat midbrow superficial approach to public education loaded with bourgeoisie class biases. But its just depressing to compare it with what came afterward. PMC leftoids have no respect for their audience or constituency. A taboo on saying bad words like nigger or retard or faggot to divert attention from the fact you are being psyopped into a worldview were you have no right to define yourself your body and your mind do not really belong to you but are resources to be exploited by someone else. Notice how "woke" discourse is effectively a product of powerful interest groups, from the security state(hence emphasis on countering 'radicalization' over a positive political program) the sex industry( normalize and expand prostitution aka 'sex work' and pornography) the psychiatric establishment( fake DSM categories treated as essential identities) the culture industry(representation of identities in pop culture) subjecting social minorities to a program of biopolitics were you can be gay or change your gender and there are many genders now but effectively you just have an nth number of biopolitical identifiers converging in the same ideology and mandatory character structure.

See also sociologist erving goffman who talked about total institutions(such as the hospital the prision or the psychiatric asylum) divided between inmates and staff. Thats the post liberal model of power the doctor that knows better than his patients but has sold out to the pharmaceuticals. Goffman also popularized the term stigma so beloved of libs. They want to keep the stigma just move it around as to make people easier to control. ie. 'Destigmatize' being fat to sell more corn syrup or opiates to sell more fetanyl or 'sex work' to psyop women into whoring themselves out as prostitutes. under the surface its not radical, but perverse and coercitive.

>>19666666
666+666
Is a double negative, so all good
>>19666681
X marks the spot for artificially imposed societal change.
>>19666705
I attend thee.

>>19666732
the more you are actually on the margins, the more scary and traumatic these things may seem, because they are means of controlling and exploiting people who are deemed unworthy of being controlled and exploited by other means. all these woke ngos and journalists and PMC people are literally close to sex traffickers and psychological warfare operatives ,this is why it feels like a root canal.
autists are the ideal test subjects for new forms of social control. see for example how things like kiwifarms and encyclopedia dramatica were created with the involvement of intelligence agencies, or tumblr and vice magazine for that matter, how you can reshape identity through social pressure and media, a flow of images which is more real than the physical body.

John oliver's wife was a combat psychiatrist in iraq, this politically correct ''safe'' corporate culture is pretty close to literal psyops. the same actors who captured the agenda on transgender issues are pushing for the normalization or ''destigmatization'' of prostitution, of course its justified in economic terms, but on the other hand you have the reality of sex trafficking and PTSD rates on par with those of combat veterans.see also the synanon method and how they ended up exploiting the female cult members as prostitutes. of these things are techniques designed to maximize the control that can be wielded over people and how much they can be exploited. you start by dividing people into groups and controlling the contact groups have amongst each other. If authority can be grounded on what agamben calls bare life, then its reach becomes practically unlimited.

Its not that i hate trannies or gays but the unbearable horror of mass biopolitics and psychiatric power and propaganda. contrast the old notion'queer' identities as countercultural, exposing the 20th century nuclear family as an artificial biopolitical norm. To now where 'queer' identities, are used to re-legitimize those supposedly discredited notions about the 'authentic self', as the pre-ideological truth of the subject that must be discovered through 'objective', 'scientific' authority and made public. How these really are coercitiva and brutal means of controlling vulnerable people.

And how 'sexual liberation' is an imperative. Onlybecause all sexual impulses must be exploited and commodified and used to win elections. You have to have children in pride parades and drag queen story hour because we gotta be provocative (as with all 'culture war' issues none of this is organic it is an arms race between think tanks and propaganda operatives) . and there is no room for ambiguity and you cant talk about how identity is always socially constructed performative and at least in part always based on trauma(even amongst 'normal' heterosexual people, let alone the trads which are really just another perversion created by the system).

>>19666732
>>19666770
Mark Fisher on this:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/

>>19666777
its almost quaint right now, as compared to what reality ended up being.

>>19666587
Not an argument.

>>19666732
Great post

>>19666777
Mark Fisher praising Russell Brand as a cool, hip and “sexy” communist is the cringiest fucking think I’ve ever read, with that kind of pathetic optimism no wonder he offed himself

>>19666281
>They constructed a crypto-theological construct which will "tell us all" how wicked and benighted we are because we like to listen to jazz and we don't listen to twelve-tone music and we want to watch TV and we don't want to see the plays of Brecht and that shows us how "stupid" we are.
He was right about music (to the extent that listening to jazz and its derivatives is abd for you and listening to Schoenberg is good for you. He really didn't understand Schoenberg's music). Wrong about Brecht.

>>19666704
Does being economically center make one a fascist? Your argument proves too much. >>19666467 was a lot closer.

>>19667545
>Does being economically center make one a fascist?
Yes.

>>19666281
>That thing you like?
Fascism

>>19666452
>in which rebellion was re-construed as generational rather than economic or substantive in ANY manner.
Oh my god who cares. Can you retards stfu about revolution for one second. I truly don't care. And frankly the fetishization of revolution in the abstract is weird. There are contexts where I think revolution is justified but this notion a lot of marxists seem to have that revolution for its own sake is some unquestioned good I don't get it.

>>19668184
>a lot of marxists seem to have that revolution for its own sake is some unquestioned good I don't get it
Marxists aren't thinking about these things in terms of being good or bad. They see revolution as an historical inevitability and supporting it as just being factually correct in their beliefs.

>>19668201
>They see revolution as an historical inevitability and supporting it as just being factually correct in their beliefs.
Yes that is certainly what they say. Compare this statement to a Christian:
>I'm not saying it's good for sinners to go to hell but it is simply the providential will of God". Even though this statement doesn't directly say "I want sinners to go to hell" that is the implicit judgement being made. In any case you really can't deny that Marxists fetishize revolution. They wait expectantly for it with the same fervor with which evangelicals wait for the 2nd coming...

>>19668216
*Edit:
Compare this statement to a Christian:
>I'm not saying it's good for sinners to go to hell but it is simply the providential will of God"
Even though this statement doesn't directly say "I want sinners to go to hell" that is the implicit judgement being made. In any case you really can't deny that Marxists fetishize revolution. They wait expectantly for it with the same fervor with which evangelicals wait for the 2nd coming...

>>19666452
What he seems to be saying in the quote is that jazz has no balls, but does it in the academic jargon of the time.
This I don't quite get, because jazz was first of all extremely sensual compared to other stuff. It's just pure eros unleashed through musical scales, breaking them down in the process. I guess we can't really appreciate it the way folks did back then, but listening to a band play so loose and unscripted must have felt exhilarating. Adorno says it's castrated, while it's as sexual as music ever was up to that time. Perhaps he was insecure because something way cooler than his clique appeared and he realized he had no chance of hanging in those circles, smoky clubs with drugs, lascivious women, violence, negroes, so he just decided to say, no, that scene is dickless, we are still the real shit.

However, jazz being repurposed into an industrial commodity is true

>>19666281
A decent thread about Adorno? Americans must be asleep

>>19666281
Another seething jazzfag. If there is one thing Adorno got right it's his views on pop music.

>>19666281
Fascism is not the final stage of capitalism LMAO. Fascism is socialist with a nationalist, instead of internationalist, leaning. Fucking lefties can't accept that Hitler was in their camp.

>>19666452
"The aim of jazz is the mechanical reproduction of a regressive moment, a castration symbolism. 'Give up your masculinity, let yourself be castrated,' the eunuchlike sound of the jazz band both mocks and proclaims, 'and you will be rewarded,' accepted into a fraternity which shares the mystery of impotence with you, a mystery revealed at the moment of the initiation rite."
Take that as true, and one look at Adorno tells you he's a Jazz man.

did you just quote a few paragraphs from a Sugrue lecture available on youtube? Why can't you at least rephrase it you unoriginal fuck

FUCK NON GERMANIC MUSIC
FUCK NATIONALISM
FUCK *YOU*

The whole of Adorno's philosophy can be reduced to the fact that he was deeply insecure about his masculinity and quite possible a homosexual in denial

Freudians need to be castrated

>>19668216
>>19668222
This basically. Marxists just pretend to be emotionless autists

>>19666489
you are a man

>>19666380
Thanks

>>19666281
>bald
Dropped

>>19666281
This is what I imagine passes for an essay in university

>>19666552
> But the concept of fixed solo structures and regimented behaviors are a precursor to the modern system of informally regimented bass drops and scales, where pop music is highly controlled and its production totally automated.
Except this is total bullshit and only shows the complete lack of understanding of music and performance. All improvisatory music (even poetry) from the dawn of history has REQUIRED some structural form to it, in order for the musician(s) performing to construct something coherent and meaningful. Do you think Bach just made everything up without any structure or guidance every time he wrote/improvised? Jazz chord sheets and solo patterns are merely an extension of the way of life of making music, so it’s odd to focus on that solely.

>>19669129
op just copy pasted a section from this lecture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9EI8wEyuY

>>19669077
You won't like to hear this, but he fucked around quite a bit, cheating on his wife. Not only did he cheat on her, but wrote about it in detail in his diaries and dictate to his wife his thoughts about these encounters.

>>19669259
Fags cheat on their wife all the time dumbass

>>19669266
Fags continually chase heterosexual liasions?

>>19666281
>Look at Nazi Germany, look at the United States, there are more differences than similarities.
OP still thinks there was a war.

>>19669077
broke homosexuals and trannies are degenerates

woke homosexuals and trannies are FASCISTS

>>19666531
This is a very amusing comment because you're engaging in precisely the anti-intellectualism bingo that Adorno extensively examined and dissected in his critiques of college student activist types and actionism.

>>19668253
The powers that be don't care if you're having sex or not. Adorno means castration wrt somethings threat to present power structures

>>19666281
It's because Marxists think in terms of black and white, good and evil. Capitalism and socialism. Fascism doesn't fit this mold but that doesn't make sense in their dichotomy so they come up with these retarded mental gymnastics for why it really does.

>>19667516
in retrospect fisher was good at cultural criticism but his political views were always kinda cringe, the problem is not post-ideological cynicism but living under a totalitarian system of power

>>19669306
I can concede to that. Jazz and various other transgressive grassroots artistic movements of the dyonisian, hedonistic vein definitely seem to have been exploited for their capacity to sedate and placate the consumers, as I mentioned.
However, his insistince on using the eunuch metahor still sounds to me to come from resentment, from the feeling that the culture to which he was attached wasn't seen as relevant by the youth due to the emerging jazz scene and the lifestyles it involved.

>>19669259
The keyword being possibly. Otherwise his fear and insecurity are without question

>>19666770
>see for example how things like kiwifarms and encyclopedia dramatica
You guys are fucking retarded

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