/lit/ - Literature

Another man whose hokey social criticism appears insightful at first but will slowly come to be revealed as shallow and inconsistent. The appeal of course is the easy answer for people who have yet to engage properly in society or had to think of anyone but themselves

>>19659879
>can someone ELI5
you need to go back

>>19659885
Putting aside whether or not he’s a hack (he is), I do think that his message is different from Peterson’s as is his ideology so it’s interesting to chart the shifting feelings of the people who drifted from Peterson to him

>>19659879
He's very good at explaining power dynamics in a way that actually makes sense in the real world, unlike most social theorists who just do mental gymnastic to tell people they must keep voting for leftists for the world to improve, even when they already have most of the power and things aren't any better for it.

>>19659926
>unlike most social theorists who just do mental gymnastic to tell people they must keep voting for leftists for the world to improve, even when they already have most of the power and things aren't any better for it.
jesus what a loaded comment.

who are the social theorists you are talking about, and where do they say you must keep voting for leftists for the world to improve?

where is the evidence that leftists have the most power, and that the world isn't better for it?

>>19659889
>>19659879
What does that even mean? I thought it was a typo

The difference between Yarvin and Pederson is that Yarvin writes dense tomes of blogposts that a majority of his supporters don't even read, and almost of all of his detractors do not read unless when trying to datamine for a hitpiece. Peterson writes 1 book every few years and makes a ton of money off of book touring a speeches, much like a politician.

>>19659879
Yep, CIA codename Moldbug. He larps as a dissident but lies to his audience all the time.

>>19659885
This. He's the illiterate man's sociologist/political scientist. If you have never studied the subject he will surely trick you into thinking he has everything figured out, but his worldview is just juvenile. I used to like him until I read some Marx, Gramsci, Adorno, etc.. and understood how the world actually works. Spoiler, a cathedral of leftists don't run the world. The problem are greedy conservative men (and some women) who hold all the power for themselves and will exploit us for our labor without mercy.

>>19659934
Not that guy, but Chomsky is probably the biggest example of that lol. Spent his entire life writing about the evils of the United States and in his twilight years just sputters out "just vote for biden.."

>>19659941
>Marx, Gramsci, Adorno, etc..
Don't forget Deleuze! Anyone who wants to understand the post modern world must read Deleuze. The revolution will be without organs or it won't be.

>>19659955
Didn't want to mention Deleuze because he's more advanced. Someone who is into Moldbug would be incapable of understand Deleuze before reading a LOT before. But absolutely. He's amazing.

>>19659941
If only this post were satire

>>19659941
True. See, Moldburg is your typical Late Capitalist bourgie post-author who would never make it in intellectual circles of bygone decades but wait, there's the million dollar eye sign idea, why not start a farm and tend to your illiterate paypigs? If that doesn't show the "cathedral" I don't know what will.

>>19659955
>The revolution will be without organs or it won't be.
LMAO. This is such a good quote. I'm stealing it. For anyone who doesn't know Deleuze it will sound as schizoid rambling though, but that makes it even better. If someone hasn't read Deleuze by now they deserve to be confused.

>>19659972
You see, if you call it the "cathedral" you bring along all the cultural baggage of religion and you get to call YOUR opponent brainwashed, rather than the other way around

>>19659879
Isn't he Jewish? Ew

>>19659955
>the revolution
Any day now I'm sure

he was being pushed as an weaker alternative to the alt right on youtube last I checked

>>19659879
"They say the liminal order is getting out of hand, but truly I think it's just that we don't understand.."

>>19659879
you are subhuman. you know this. you don't read. you have <100 iq. why the fuck are you posting on /lit/ subhuman?

>>19659885
>>19659941
>>19659955
>>19659967
>>19659972
>>19659978
These are bait posts, right?

>>19659934
>where is the evidence that leftists have the most power, and that the world isn't better for it?
niggers is the answer to both questions.

>>19660195
Discord tranny raid

>>19659972
I think there's a kind of overproduced intellectual class which is eroding and a lot of the people who don't get comfortable sinecures in a university end up becoming left-wing Twitter culture critics or resentful right-wing weirdos with Substacks. The language around the "Cathedral" gives it away.

>>19659879
maybe, uh, read him?

Michael Malice likes him and talks about him a bunch, and he's on a lot of big podcasts lately, in addition to running his own. That could have something to do with it, I dunno.

>>19659938
In response to you saying ELI5, he's saying you need to return from whence you came.

>>19660320
no I meant that I thought "ELI5" was a typo but it turns out it means "explain like I am 5" which is redditspeak.

>>19659952
Moldbug has deleuzian heritage
Deleuze -> Land -> Yarvin (-> Land)

>>19659879
peter thiel has been paying him to go on podcasts as controlled opposition, and so he's come out of obscurity somewhat. This is the actual answer.
/thread

>>19660383
>/threading your own post
I also sense something not quite organic about his return though. I mean going on Carlson's show?

>>19659879
Yarvin is interesting but he's ultimately a money-first libertarian who wants to see society ruled by CEOs -- CEO monarchy, if you will. He's an atheist, and it seems that Yarvin believes that such a system of government can exist without religious backing. He fails to realize that monarchy was successful for so long primarily because it was, at least in part, a religious institution, backed by Catholicism and the Church. This is why Spengler's analysis is so relevant. Yarvin wants to turn back the clock to prior culture forms, at the late-stages of civilization, without any sort of transcendent element -- but that simply cannot happen. In fact, this proposal is degeneracy. We will not be able to recapture the religiosity of that time. Now, Yarvin might know this, but he doesn't know that monarchy will not be successful without God. Spengler would call this sort of government, the one proposed by Yarvin, the rule of money.

>>19660383
Any details on this?

>>19660441
>Yarvin is interesting
I cannot imagine how sad your life is.

>>19660478
You determine quality of life by association with name dropping intellectuals so yours is probably worse

thiel funded think tank shill bot farm psyop
>elaborate
no

>>19660441
These are Thielian agents in the fashion of their Sorosian counterparts: in any case the conversation is entirely elitely controlled, as in a chess board. Greenwald is another Thielian servant and agent of money and ego...

>>19660452
here's some shit off wikipedia that sums up their relationship somewhat. can't really take the guy seriously as a voice of dissent given this info

>>19660538
Hes not really a voice of dissent regardless. Maybe back in UR days when he was writing defenses of slavery(and of certain races no less) but not anymore. And there were always a lot of subjects he wouldn't touch even back then.

>>19660441
If you read Hour of Decision, it sounds like Spengler and Yarvin are in almost perfect agreement regarding what will happen, not what they want to happen.

>>19659955
>>19659967
>>19659978
same poster -_-
permanently turned off to deleuze now anon good job

>>19660502
I don't determine quality of life by association with name dropping intellectuals, but don't act like thinking Moldbug is an interesting thinker isn't sad. Read some real intellectuals instead. Perhaps someone like Deleuze would be too hard for you, but you could start with someone like Mark Fischer.

>>19660591
Don't let the cringy Deleuze faggots taint your view of him. He's one of the most disruptive thinkers ever and the body without organs is the greatest philosophical concept of the last 50 years. It's fucking brilliant.

>>19660295
yeah he seems to be trying to promote himself, not that theres anything wrong with that

>>19660593
>Deleuze
Fucking lol

>>19660628
>doesn't know about the body without organs
A Moldbug fag like you could learn a think or twice from reading Deleuze. He's actually disruptive and his ideas are radical in a way that Curtis "I pretend to be disruptive but I want Coca-Cola CEO to dominate the world" will never be.

>>19659885
how does one "engage properly in society?"

>>19660615
no, these queers have permanently turned me off to him and guatarri. every follower of their philosophy is an insufferable faggot with a memepage

>>19660656
By actually going to college and study philosophy/sociology from actual intellectuals who have dedicated their lives to their fields instead of thinking you know better necause you read the blog posts of a smart but ultimately misguided techno bro. The cathedral may look like a cool idea, but when you actually look who has all the power, like the pentagon and the billionaires, they aren't exactly leftists. If anything the "cathedral" is one of the few things fighting against them and stopping the world from becoming an anarcho capitalist nightmare. They are not ideal, of course, but they are better than the alternative.

>>19660667
Then you will miss on the body without organs and you won't know how to fulfill your potential in the post modern world. Have luck with that.

>>19660639
Yeah Deleuze is so radical and disruptive that hes taught in undergrad courses lmao

>>19660684
so people who dont go to college dont engage properly in society?

>>19660684
>ut when you actually look who has all the power, like the pentagon and the billionaires,
What do you think about central banks and investment corps like BlackRock, and the specific people who control them? What about the alphabet agencies and the courts? Bodies like FDA, CDC, ATF? Who owns the press and who controls academia?

>>19659879
the right is radicalizing. soon, BAP and Evola will be the the lightning rod of the right. then who knows after that

>>19660722
They don't engage in the intellectual society. It's like a layman trying to get into advanced physics because they can do some basic math.

>>19660743
>What do you think about central banks and investment corps like BlackRock, and the specific people who control them?
Capitalists who hijack progressive ideas to stay on top. They are not leftists.
>What about the alphabet agencies and the courts? Bodies like FDA, CDC, ATF?
A mix of conservatives and liberals, but ultimately all of them care about money. So again, not leftists.
>Who owns the press and who controls academia?
They are controlled by moderate leftists, specially academia, and it's the only resistance against the people who actually hold the power, like billionaires and the pentagon. The press not so much though, since they still support Biden and neoliberalism. Academia may support him, but only because he's the lesser evil.

>>19660766
Why does the state allow academics to fight it? Wouldn't it be better to infiltrate academia and then keep up a pretense of rebellion that doesn't actually threaten power? Surely wouldn't be hard for them to do that, what power does academia have to fight back?

>>19660766
>the press is controlled by moderate leftists and they keep the evil capitalists in check
Ametican hands typed this. Itsamazing how such a rich country lacks any kind of self-awareness

>>19660684
>they aren't exactly leftists
The Pentagon is run by Jews trying to remove all of the Whites that they can from the US armed forces. Did you not get the firmware update from the Frankfurt School back in the 30s?

wow this thread devolved fast into pol-like antics

>>19660843
wow

>>19660843
Moldbug IS pol-like antics.

>>19660656
>>19660684
Get a job. Once you get to solving practical problems you start to realise just how nonsense this social criticism is. You realise the bulk of society is also trying to do just that and you start to think "why wouldn't group x just do y, since it's easier" instead of some dance for entertainment media

>>19660615
This is what people say when they haven't read any other philosophy and don't know how to make intellectual sense of the history of ideas

>>19659955
Deleuze was retroactively refuted by Plato

>>19660684
>like the pentagon and the billionaires, they aren't exactly leftists.
kys

>>19659879
Christian LARPers love jews
Imagine my shock...

>>19659879
The fascinating thing about Moldbug and Nrx is that it seems like there's something there in the movement at first glance but if you look closely there's nothing at all. All of Moldbug's original ideas (the patchwork, corporate monarchism, his caste system, etc.) have been forgotten about or actively rejected. There's still the Cathedral I guess but in practice this just merged into generic deep state theories. It's no longer techno-feudalism and corporations and capitalism are evil now on the far right, so what exactly is Nrx now?

>>19660538
Dissent against what? Thiel, it seems, dissents against a lot of things that are tenets of the current regime. What form of dissent is undermined by association with Peter Thiel?

Or is the idea that anyone who is successful under the current regime is not to be trusted, and true dissent can only come from powerless people guaranteed to lose? Sounds like dumb schizo shit to me.

You can tell he's good because he writes sick poetry. He's judging a $20k poetry contest, Passage Prize. He's popular because he's post-leftist, essentially, and along with Nick Land, was mapping out the travesty of the last several years back in the late 2000's. So he has the oracular sheen. What we're under is a kind of inverted fascism. It's highly identitarian, moral, censorious, totalitarian, corporate, aesthetic. Progressivism *is* a religion, and Yarvin muses well on the subject *because* he was raised on it -- a fairly new phenomenon. The Cathedral isn't bringing the baggage of a religion proper background, but the Progressive background of the child of CIA elite types. There's a new world order afoot, spurred by AI (as Eric Schmidt and Kissinger are currently arguing) and in the chaos of change, Yarvin is proving to be a fairly stimulating "not-regime" voice, suggesting the possibility of a world beyond our current set up .. like the Great Reset, but, emergent, right-wing, vitalist.

I was impressed by Peterson because he was using language I had not heard of before and was like 18, needing to learn new words and forms of thought. Problem was the way he used some of those words didn't make a lot of sense in the end as I learned more and more stuff and finally studied some marx and postmodernists. Same kinda goes for Moldbug in a way I guess, opened another door of language and concepts for me.
don't know if that's ignorance or what, but that's what brought me in at least and most of the people I got interested in early on when I was starting to read.

>>19659941
>has read Adorno
>doesn't believe that ((())) runs the world

an oxymoron if I ever saw one

>>19659955
Based and Deleuze pilled.

>>19659879
Yarvin is the dumb's man Mark Fischer. He may be more fashionable because he's edgier, but while he has some good ideas, there's a serious lack of depth to them and by the end of the day he's just a wealthy guy sucking the cock of even wealthier people, because freedom, man!

>>19661461
It's more like Thiel is obsessed with seeming like someone Who Thinks and deserves his great wealth and influence, while spiritually he is actually a pawn who can hardly think at all as revealed by his discussion with David Graeber. There's an interesting family resemblance of just-under-the-surface tiredness and inconsequentialness to Thiel, Moldbug, and the like. So far the new right movement has captured and neutralized most of the people who were drawn to it. I think it's largely a subsided wave of a more expansive shift in society and spirit. Chris B was the last person of any interest from the milieu. Land is like a daoist schizo.

>>19661687
>by the end of the day he's just a wealthy guy sucking the cock of even wealthier people, because freedom, man!
Lmao, this is hilarious but it also perfectly encapsulates what's so wrong with Moldbug.

>>19661687
>because freedom, man!
This shit is spot on kek.
Yarvin strikes me as the kind of guy who would think DFW is a genius. I wouldn't be surprised if his stans are also into DFW and Peterson.

Why does this thread read so weird, is this one o' them famous discord tranny raids?

I like Moldbug quite a bit and it's nice that he's starting to generate as much ass-blastage as Peterson. He needs to become better known though, maybe go on Rogan's podcast or something.

>>19661489
Basically the only good post ITT.

>>19659879
he's the joker for computer honkeys

>>19659955
shut the fuck up and just read Virilio don't listen to this poster they want you to just have gay sex and sell your organs

>>19661723
Thiel has always come off as a very smart guy in the stuff I've seen. Cope seeth etc

>>19659941
Here you see another little marxoid trying to frame all social critique as a branch of Marxism. Thankfully Curtis avoids Marxist thinkers and derived everything from first principles precisely because he doesn't want to play into the hands of subhumans like you.

>>19659879
NRX produced and adapted a somewhat non-schizo body of scholarship and with the partial overlap of the only other dissident right wing option with similar traits(white nationalists) they've became the more easily promoted form.

>>19661723
Yeah the discussion, more of a debate, with Graeber really shows the different level of depth you can get with an actual academic.
But at the same time i got the feeling that Thiel was holding back some illuminati info he has, like the gaps in his ideas can be solved with secrets he can't reveal.
I guess you gotta fuck a kid and drink the blood first

>>19659952
>"just vote for biden.."

People opposing this is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen mascaraing as an argument.

Yes, NOW Chomsky is crazy and for whatever reason actually supports 'left corporate fascism' (or whatever you want to call the authoritarian bullshit that is arising now), but the idea that just spending a few minutes casting a vote against a political party you have reason to oppose is somehow supporting 'the state', while not voting is somehow meaningfully 'anti-state', is absurd and he was always right to call out people opposing this as idiots.

I'm glad that he's getting back to working on his book starting with the new year. It's not as good as his old stuff, but I loved his writings on Scott Alexander

>>19659879
>ELI5
You have to go back

>>19659939
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2021/08/investigative-reports/the-father-the-son-and-the-mencius-moldbug/

this does not mean to ignore him btw, follow and be skeptical

>>19659879
land likes this guy, people like land therefore people like this guy

the market for right wing intellectuals/philosophers is open to basically anyone who steps up.
There is a large lack of right wing intellectuals, there really is an opening for that, you got yarvin and i guess jordan peterson lel.
Personally id like to see right wing intellectuals who take after christopher lasech and james burnham.

>>19662737
This actually doesn't say anything that he himself hasn't revealed, save for maybe his brother.

>>19659898
you know is politics are very hackish indeed, but urbit maybe the only hack that understands the subjugation of modern cybernetics and tries to remedy it with decentralized solution. Its no easy fleet to design your own functional programming language and use it to build upon the foundations of a server(client)-server networking framework.

while yarvin may glow, ideas such as urbit provide better solutions than metaverse in dealing with the blockchain menace.

"they trust me, dumb fucks"-zuck

>>19662797
think about it rhizomatically, why does moldbug hold so much influence within silicon valley VCs such as Thiel(Palantir)? following yarvin's work over the years has taught me he has strong deep state/VC connections(even if he's trying to go agaist them). It's one of the reasons why his ideas can appear novel, but are actually ideas that's been brewing amoungst the deep cathedral.

i will continue to read/follow him because of his deep descriptive analysis. i have faith in yarvin's ideas.

>>19662872
lmao thiel is just the boogyman to leftist like soros is to rightists

>>19662872
He's a much more baroque, stem-based antecessor of Greenwald (pardon the inversion of chronological order). But both are utterly untrustworthy sophists at this point, with no respect for their audience.

>>19662898
>he doesnt know about privitized NSA
if u post on the chins pls read up on Palantir
subversives come from all spectrums

>>19662872
>so much influence within silicon valley VCs such as Thiel(Palantir)
Citation Needed. Also there's a perfectly good explanation - he ran a successful startup and probably rubbed elbows with a lot of these guys while working on his PhD.

>>19659879
Hey look another SF&F author rocking a biker jacket as his schtick. Tremendous stuff - I wonder what he rides.

>>19659879
Palantir is a gov front
Thiel is a glowie
Moldbug rides his balls
Urbit is most likely a scam

>>19661723
>Chris B
Who?

>>19662967
>SF&F author
???

>>19662961
founders fund from thiel funded tron(urbit),
also,
Network Power: The Social Dynamics of Globalization

yarvin's work in functional programming gets him a lot of networking cred in tech, but also he's been persona non grata for a while

also if you want citation from the man himself, check kantbot's pseudodoxology(wydna) interview with moldbug and he's not shy about his dies to deep state kek

>>19663072
>dies
*ties

>>19662972
urbit is as much of a scam as blockchain is

>>19662988
Science Fiction & Fantasy - they get lumped together a lot, especially in the SFF fandom at conventions like Worldcon, etc.

>>19663087
Yeah, but my point is that he's not one, like at all.

>>19663091
Oh shit I completely misread OP. Fuck, why is my brain so fried today.

>>19662797
>danny hillis and long now
do you know about the whole earth catalogue?
the hillis ties to moldbug's senpai really can shine a light to the structures of cybernetic realism

>>19659879
>can someone ELI5

no

Yarvin is peak midwittery for reactionaries.

He blames a nebulous Cathedral for problems, shifts all responsibility from Jews, and shills for vaccines.

In short, he mystifies power to his audience and acts as a safety valve to prevent intellectual movements or action that might actually be useful.

Big shock, the leading Nrx magazine just partnered with the WEF

>>19663350
He's Greenwald before Greenwald

>>19663350
>mystifies power to his audience
Completely untrue. Literally the opposite of truth.

>Big shock, the leading Nrx magazine just partnered with the WEF
Source?

Just read him, seriously. UR is available online, for free, in a good format. Make up your own mind, these threads are always a shitshow

>>19663407
>>19663407
https://palladiummag.com/about/

>Palladium is partnered with the World Economic Forum’s Strategic Intelligence Platform.

>>19663547
Holy shit. That's actually very good news. Moldbug really is on his way to being the next Marx, goddamn.

>>19663547
Palladium is not a NRx publication, they are just critical of Fukuyamism. Jacobite however kinda is.

>>19659879
Oh look, another le right wing guy who won't name the jew for some reason. Yup, real credible.

>>19663561
I always thought they're crypto-NRx. I'm sure there's more than a couple former Social Matter people at Palladium.

>>19661516
There is something to be said for a novel, metered use of language that requires exploration of meaning in technical and philosophical works. It's certainly better than taking one of the two given meanings for a word you allegedly know and assuming it means what you think it does in such a context. You seem to have found what I did, that the language, rhetoric and conceptual topography is key to understanding the work, but also highlights the weakness of it.

>>19663561
>not a NRx publication
https://palladiummag.com/2020/11/23/confronting-modernity-means-overcoming-humanism/

dig through the catalogue and read, you will see the Nrx influence as light as day
also,
kevin kelley <--> danny hillis
the clock of the long now....

>>19659879
The core method of Nrx is the application of Darwinism to politics(hbd, memetics, civilizational fitness, etc). This was an interesting thing to do but I'm not sure any of them quite went all the way with it. Jim's blog I think is a bit more rigorous about it than moldbug. I liked Moldbugs old UR blog though I cant lie, just kind of a comfy vibe.

As to his new fame I really don't know. The whole online right is just odd and I cant be bothered to figure out the little power dynamics.

Nrx people: when Yarvin talks about the Cathedral, who does he mean?

When you think about these people, does this seem like an accurate description of who has power in society?

>>19664159
>when Yarvin talks about the Cathedral, who does he mean?
The informal global network of institutions that unaccountably exercises sovereign power.

>When you think about these people, does this seem like an accurate description of who has power in society?
Yes.

>>19664159
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF5OCKoy7-U

>>19664159
I vaguely recall that Cathedral is a play by TS Eliot, a royalist like Yarvin themselves.

>>19664159
I don't consider myself "Nrx", but the concept of the Cathedral is just obviously true in some form. The University system is more or less the sole source of scientific and otherwise "expert" knowledge, the source of innovations in egalitarian ideology, and the sole source of the credentials needed for basically any job. It doesn't really have competing factions and can usually choose a unified position on any politicized issue, which will be the Correct opinion held by educated society at large. The mainstream news media ensures that this is true by informing the public of the correct opinions, and then credentialed experts put them into practice through unelected jobs in the civil service. The idea that average people can elect some redneck politician and ban stem cell research or whatever against the Cathedral's wishes is an obvious farce.

Well for one thing, Yarvin is like two standard deviations above Peterson in terms of intelligence.

>>19664413
Do you think academics have more influence than say, billionaires/ international finance/ the WEF/ intelligence agencies/ etc? Or would the cathedral encompass them too?

>>19659941
this post reeks of desperation.

>>19664734
Yes, I 100% believe they have more influence. The Cathedral is nebulous by nature, so of course there's some overlap, but it's not extensive.

>>19662872
>why does moldbug hold so much influence within silicon valley
because he is a goddamn Silicon Valley computer scientist/developer. why else would he be influential with people in his field, dumbass?

>>19664629
Peterson was north of 150, though.

>>19664914
checkout
>>19663072
>>19662806
>>19662737
>>19663547
>>19663625

>>19665001
forgot 2 add
>>19663128

>>19665001
Yeah, his explanation still makes far more sense. Occam's Razor and all that.

>>19664983
Year in dropped out of his PhD at 19 to found a successful startup.

>>19664914
Fun fact: Yarvin was once invited to LambdaConf, back in 2015, and the Scala community is still feeling the effects.

>>19665012
>Year in
Yarvin

>>19665014
kek i remember that shitfest

>>19664734
They are cathedrals in their own right. A real desert trilogy, if you will.

>>19664734
I think you can subvert the Cathedral to limited ends using a massive amount of capital and subterfuge but it is like building a tiny weir on the bank of a massive river. They are, in the literature, a product of and subject to the Cathedral in the way a Monarch is a product of and subject to the Church. The Deep State and Corporations are the new undying monarchs.

>>19664734
Well, I'll do intelligence agencies. The CIA supports the interests of the American government, which means things like spreading American soft power and combating foreign influence. American soft power is synonymous with Cathedral ideology. A good American ally is one that tears apart its society to combat transphobia five seconds after American universities invent the concept of transphobia, then starts scolding Americans for being transphobic. Combating foreign influence is exactly what we know it is- banning anti-Cathedral ideology from the internet under the assumption that it comes from Russia. The agency is very publicly "woke", and advertises its DEI initiatives in order to counteract its image among elite university grads. And yes it still opposes communism, as does American Soft Power advocate George Soros, but it's not as though Harvard University opposes free trade.

As for "billionaires", finance etc, obviously these people are forced to hold Cathedral approved opinions if they want to speak in public, and forced to diversify their companies and hire more black people at the cost of profits, etc. CEOs can be pressured out of their own companies or humiliated in public like Zuckerberg if they dissent. But they do currently get to make lots of money and not give it all away to poor people, and I think to many socialists, that somehow proves they must be using their immense power to prevent the revolution. But economics departments are also part of the university system and are seemingly necessary to justify rich people keeping their money. If all Harvard economists agreed that there should be a substantial wealth tax on billionaires, do you really think the billionaires would keep their money?

>>19662872
>think about it rhizomatically
Based and Deleuze pilled. Daily remember that if you haven't read Deleuze you aren't literate enough to use this board.

>>19664397
This guy was cool. It's a pity he stopped making videos.

>>19665300
You obviously haven't read Mark Fischer if you think billionaires and the CIA are leftists or whatever as Moldbug says.

>>19665327
Say one(1) interesting thing about Deleuze I dare you

Eli-5 sounds like a Disney sitcom about a boy android

>>19659879
I've never understood it either. I tried reading his blog years ago and wasn't at all impressed. Maybe it's social criticism for people who haven't read any other social critics.

>>19665367
It's because he does mental gymnastics to blame everything on the left, so right wingers obviously assume he must be insightful, even when most of what he says is demonstrably false.

>>19665367
Which other social critics look at progressivism as a memetic virus

>>19665354
You are gay and dumb and a conspiracy theorist who thinks CIA agents say the n word behind closed doors. They are liberals who dream of gay pride parades in Afghanistan.

Also I will read Mark Fischer.

>>19665412
>CIA agents say the n word behind closed doors
They unironically do, probably. They aren't real leftists. They just co opt-leftist ideas to dismantle their power since leftism is the biggest threat to the status quo.

>>19665431
>They unironically do, probably.
But the fact that you have to say that makes you unserious. The head of the CIA could be cancelled in three seconds if something like that was leaked, and would be surrounded by true believers who would leak it. There is no secret racism.

>>19665431
You're fucking retarded if you actually believe this holy shit.

>>19665356
bodies without organs, deterritorialization/reterritorialization, rhizome, immanence, societies of control.....

anon just go read the deleuze dictonary by adrian parr

>>19662758
The problem is, it's all controlled. Intellectuals are always controlled. They always have patrons supporting them (a.k.a. they are wagies).

Right wing intellectuals can not make it academia, there careers will be imploded on arrival. They can maybe publish anonymously, but most intelligent people have far too big of egos for that.

They have three choices then: Keep their musing to themselves (this gives them smugness as well because they can 'see' things that others don't), suck the cock of a patron (the intellectual is forced to compromise for this patron as well), or grift the normies (the intellectual has to write down to them).

This is why change doesn't come from the intellectual. The intellectual only frames change that has occurred and explains it intelligently.

>>19665458
That's not saying anything, its just listing terms lol

>>19665458
you kinda write like you only skimmed a dictionary of terms yourself
just namedropping these trashy neologisms for no reason over and over
that strat only impresses people with -1sd iq lower than yours I figure. probably good enough for most /lit/ posters unfortunately

>>19665541
>>19665564
well i don't really want to spoil it so you can read it

for what i like about deleuze is how he got me to read and think about spinoza, specifically Natura naturata/Natura naturans and recursion. many continental philosophers took the Hegelian turn(recursion realizing itself), but deleuze expresses recursion in nature as expressions of flow.

the terms i stated describe the 'flows'

>>19665431
>leftism is the biggest threat to the status quo.

Leftism is the status quo.

>>19665630
It's not a mystery thriller, you cant spoil it by talking about what it says

>>19665642
Then whey every powerful institution is so desperate to co opt leftists ideas to render them inoffensive? Neorreactionaries can never answer that simple question.

>>19665689
You have it backwards lol. The people adopt leftist beliefs because they can tell that power has those beliefs and the people are always slavish.

The state could just crush leftism as they do fascism if they wanted, nobody would do shit.

>>19664734
It's not so simple.
The billionaires go to high end universities. The intelligence people go to universities before becoming that. The upper management goes to universities before becoming upper management.
Now you may say with billionaires they're just there for the purpose of being pretentious but this is not really the thing - Popper obviously had influence on Soros. Don't think Soros alone, there's bunch of others, but self made or children of billionaires, they can as well have some intellectual aspirations, they're not 100% frat boys.

This creates a dynamic where for instance a lot of foundational theories in American social science were developed by people mostly funded through private billionaire charity funds(iirc the deliberate dumbing down of America tracks some of that in educational thought), probably with ulterior motives, but then they end up with their children - the next generation of the world controllers so to speak, being raised by the world they've astroturfed and they have resources to do it again. I'll even go further and say that these turn of century astroturfs were setup by people under influence of previous swindles of this kind.

So there exists a layer controlling the cathedral mostly through funding(Moldbug is sceptical to this mind you) but it's not a single directional relationship, it goes both ways.

>>19665723
>I'll even go further and say that these turn of century astroturfs were setup by people under influence of previous swindles of this kind.
It's turtles all the way down but the restructuring of the university and shift to education as a public service were fundamental to forming the older iterations of this Matrix. One must remember that academia moves at a glacial pace and is extremely conservative on the whole, so looking for things that removed the checks and balances tell the tale.

>>19660441
>He's an atheist, and it seems that Yarvin believes that such a system of government can exist without religious backing.

Holocaustianity is working out pretty well for them.

>What if we just turned the entirety of the West into a strictly materialist neofeudal technocracy ruled over by psychopathic Jews? It's the only way to defeat the Cathedral, after all.

Haha. Yeah. Based and redpilled.

Can't wait.

>>19665859
thats not really what he wants though. He has sometimes endorsed sending your kids to Church, even as an Atheist. He speaks favorable of the Amish and Mormons, wants to give them more autonomy.
from one of his brief relationship column stint posts:
>It is true that a good, old-fashioned, well-aged religion, lived in for many generations, is an excellent source of wisdom. But you can actually make wisdom yourself, in your own kitchen, out of mere intelligence and experience. That’s rarely the cost-effective way to do it, but for many of us deracinated people it is the only way. (Or you could convert to a tradition—but don’t do this unless you mean it.)
you sure this is the guy who wants to force you to submit to psycho-jewish technocracy?

>>19665689
Powerful institutions take amorphous cultural critique from the left and use it to punch down at ethnic majorities because western states are far more afraid of majoritarian ethnic nationalism than they are of leftism since elite western leftists have been converting to liberalism for the last 80 years or so, being deeply humiliated by stalinism and so embracing capital "but with gays and BIPOCs". There is no leftist threat because the leftists all got tenure and so became subsumed by normative capitalist culture. Don't forget that the tribe is also strongly overrepresented in these institutions, and they have nothing to fear from socialists (since if there are socialists, the tribe will be the intellectual and financial power behind them anyways). This leaves Ur-Fascism as only possible resistance to western power institutions as socialism died or committed suicide over the last century

>>19660684
>>19660743
>>19660766
>>19660776
>>19660812
>>19660824
>>19660902
>>19660939
>By actually going to college and study philosophy/sociology from actual intellectuals who have dedicated their lives to their fields instead of thinking you know better necause you read the blog posts of a smart but ultimately misguided techno bro. The cathedral may look like a cool idea, but when you actually look who has all the power, like the pentagon and the billionaires, they aren't exactly leftists. If anything the "cathedral" is one of the few things fighting against them and stopping the world from becoming an anarcho capitalist nightmare. They are not ideal, of course, but they are better than the alternative.
Don't do this. Yes, you will end up meeting people who have real power, and yes not all of them are 'leftist', but they *are* Americans and you will realize with horror that they are actually retarded — Nothing has radicalized me more than actually working for the Government.

>>19666016
The blind bureaucracy and pension chasing behaviors of turning your moral compass off to follow procedure and always making the most benign and ineffective choice purely to cover your own ass in a hive of others doing the same really soured me to the whole thing.

>>19666029
Yes. I have probably permanently damaged my soul doing this. Bonus points for justifying your own work because no one is doing shit but office politics demand it is justified to an extent and no one explains any of the work they dump on you but it is also has legal consequences it if goes wrong but it also does not have any real impact on society.

Seriously NEETs, you're better off staying out of American Society, or at least finding only a rural part of it, if you can maintain such a lifestyle.

>>19666016
neither the pentagon nor the billioinaires may go against the cathedral's ideas; the cathedral concept contains and does not contradict your ideas of who has power

>>19666016
Lmao same. It really opened my eyes to something I had started to think in college.

Human systems/organizations/bureaucracies are bound to failure. There's nothing you can do about it. I don't even think selecting for the right people matters.

When you look at the rest of the world, the majority of governments are naively young. Few are as old as the US government and those that are have just as deep institutional problems.

I think it's completely natural. You see it in the corporate world and academia as well. It's a consequence of rules laws and human organization. I don't even believe it's societal. Humans just are not advanced enough to handle complex systems that require the organization of many humans for long. When there are so many laws, so many rules, so many organizations in your structure that a single intelligent person, let alone a group of intelligent people, know everything, your system is bound for dysfunction.

The only people who are actually making any headway in this field of human organization are in engineering and they're far from any good breakthrough. I mean seriously, look at how poorly the majority of complex engineering projects are managed. And these are systems that are almost exclusively autistic engineers and scientists too.

>>19666083
Don't know everything*

>>19666056
Don't forget being written up for every microtransgression but essentially you're unable to be fired, mechanical State rituals, and Allah forgive me, w*men everywhere.

>>19666083
You would like the book Evolution of Civilizations(Quigley). He talks a lot about institutional decay and renewal.

>>19660684
>>19659941
>cathedral of leftists don't run the world
>they aren't exactly leftists
And yet they push leftism for the goyim. Funny, that.

>>19659938
>What does that even mean?
Explain like I'm 5 [years old], apparently some Reddit trend.

>>19666111
They'll never get it. You have to basically psychologically feel the idea of being ostracized as not important in comparison to your understanding of reality to even begin to get it, and even then the lie has been embedded in your epistemological norms since birth. Even the idea "conspiracies dont exist; it's just impersonal systems" is one of these.

Honestly you could throw a normie in torture chamber and hed come out just saying whatever you told him and lying about the fact he was tortured. They're literally not sapient in the full sense; they can't evaluate a proposition and see if it makes sense if it contradicts the vast host of psychic norms that have been built into their heads.

>>19665859
He has basically done a U-turn on that position.

>>19667485
Cope harder. The right has all the power that matter: the money and the military. They may co opt leftist ideas like being inclusive, but it's only to appease the left, because they know the left is the only real threat to their neoliberal lives.

>>19667701
A U-turn doesn't mean you end up in the same place you started?

>>19667924
you have a retarded notion of what the "right" is

>>19665362
already been done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zmCUVB0Yw

UHMMM UHHHHHHHHHHH UHMMM

>>19667924
Ah the economic totalist who I bet doesn't like fascism even though he shouldn't have minded it being economic totalist comes back. Then suddenly non-economic matters start existing. You're not clever we can see through your shit.

>>19659879
Moldbug has been around a lot longer than Peterson. Do something besides circle jerking on Reddit all day you embarrassing retard.

Hope this helped.

https://carlsbad1819.wordpress.com/2021/10/03/why-post-liberalism-failed/

new years read for ppl with nothing to read

>>19667924
Again, you risk NOTHING by saying this. Any redneck retard who says something bad about Jews or blacks is 100 times braver than you

>>19669088
Duh? Why would he want to risk anything? The point is maintenance and gain of status. ZOG tells him that he gets upcummies for saying certain things, so he says them. If ZOG told him that he'd get upcummies from expounding the glories of Jesus, he'd do it (and it does, which is why he will revert to an Evangelical Christian stance if Progressive Atheism is attacked by an Odinist or whatever).

He's not trying to convince you of any kind of fundamental reality or truth about the world, he's trying to ensure his status above you by parroting the Right Opinions.

Threads like these are like quarantine zones for /pol/ brainlets.

>>19669265
It really bothers you that people say things they're not supposed to and you have no counter argument doesnt it. It just sets off your volunteer cop instincts "must defend power"

>>19668178
It's the same notion that every academic has though, but I bet you think you know better than people who have studied the subject all their lives. You're the real experts here because you read edgy blogs.

>>19659879
Why are so many people shilling Deleuze in this thread? I've rarely seen him mentioned on this board before.

>>19665354
>Mark Fischer
Lol

>>19670095
What's wrong with Mark Fischer? He's really insightful at explaining how the establishment hijack disruptive ideas to make them inoffensive. Sure, we have more social justice nowadays, which is nice, but the powerful people are still the same and neoliberalism is still rampant.

>>19670162
People don't like Fischer here because he isn't edgy enough like their blogger idols, even when his ideas are 10x more punk rock, but since he never talked about some races making better slaves he isn't fashionable.

>>19670170
Fisher is boring and banal, restated the partisan hack adorno 50 years post facto and is hailed as a prophet. People who read him are middle managers are on 10 years will be upper and they won't change shit because all it takes is FBI to talk about white spermists behind the counter and they'll shriek in terror and back the establishment, any establishment.

>>19670293
So Fischer is bad because his fans won't follow through on his principles? It is possible to be both against white supremacy and the establishment, because those two things have something in common: capitalism.

>>19670334
When the socialists take over and we abolish our present white supremacy, what will that consist of? Even higher levels of affirmative action? Abolish merit entirely and award high-skilled jobs by lottery? Even more tolerance for crime and rioting? Anti-racist propaganda somehow even more all-consuming than it is now?

Socialists trying to distinguish themselves on social issues from the radlibs in power get more cucked by the year, they outdo you guys left and right. Establishment hero Ibram X Kendi wants a council of antiracism with dictatorial power over the whole government, are you more antiracist than him?

>>19667701
How’s that? It seemed to me his entire proposition.

>>19670868
There won't be a need to tackle those issues in a functional socialist society because without capitalism they won't exist. This doesn't mean systematic oppression will be completely erased, but capitalistic-based solutions won't exists anymore, so there won't be a need to abolish merit. On contrary, since everyone will live well, there won't be a competition for difficult jobs, so they will be filled by competent people anyway who will do them as a vocation and not for money.

>>19671441
I don't know much about socialism other than class struggle and what not, but this is a pretty interesting worldview. Is there any good book about how a socialist society would be like? I've always thought capitalism is fucked up, but I've taken for granted that it's the lesser evil, but perhaps I'm wrong.

>>19671441
Fucking retard.

>>19660716
I mean, Deleuze is radical enough that both the extreme right and left ape his ideas.

>>19659879
Close. Peter Thiel is paying.

>>19659879
Sounds like astroturf to me. At least you'd have to pay me to pretend to give a shit about what Lord Moldybutt has to say about PC college campuses or whatever the fuck.

>>19672193
The only right wingers that like Deleuze are disillusioned leftists, like Land or Bruce Straley. Deleuze is inherently antinomian, therefor anti-right wing.

>>19659879
he's tricking people into supporting the NWO

>>19660824
>>19660939
you mistake revolutionary leftism for the weird social justice politics of the current elite. critical race theory is no more communist than reaganism. it does nothing to change the actual economic relations between the classes. in fact, it even further solidifies them by attributing real economic disparity to vague concepts like white supremacy. turning the races against each other has been a classic move of the ruling elite for centuries.

>>19660591
Deleuze is retarded anyway

>>19673220
Obviously you haven't read him if you think that. The body without organs alone makes him one of the most interesting thinkers of the last 50 years.

>>19671441
>there won't be a competition for difficult jobs, so they will be filled by competent people anyway who will do them as a vocation and not for money
Ok bro so who's working on sewage?

>>19673381
Ideally robots, but otherwise people who want to or young people who need labor experience. In a socialist society there won't be any shame in working on sewage. It will be just like being a doctor or a taxi driver. Next question.

>>19659941
Is this satire?

>>19673803
Das Kapital made this year /lit/ top 100. What do you think? All the retard larping attracted actual retards.

>>19661687
Mark Fisher is the dumb man's Moldbug

>>19661687
>because freedom, man!
kek
moldbugfags in suicidewatch

Was all that skepticism he had about Obama's birth certificate legitimate at all?

>>19673870
Citation needed

>dude the left has all the power and controls the world
>that's why the most powerful and richest people in the world are rightoids
>anyway so yeah, the left controls society through universities and the press, which are dedicated to leftist indoctrination
>this is why all the economics/finance departments of every university in the world are heavily pro-capitalist and don't take Marxism seriously at all. Because they are leftists, you see.
>that's why the press is largely right wing and demonises left wing candidates like Jeremy Corbyn
>that's also why the best the 'left' can get is centre-right leaders like Biden, and why candidates like Bernie get taken down

this is what neo-reactionaries ACTUALLY believe. I'm afraid being a leftist involves more than being pro-tranny/engaging in identity politics which only serves to help rightoids by dividing the working class.

>>19673915
Dude literally wrote multiple blog posts about doubting the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate back when that was a thing, you can look it up

>>19674134
Okay can you link them?

>>19674064
>the press is largely right wing
L M A O

>>19674064
fascism died after 1945, anything after that is just performative larping or art. the elite are not fascists, they are capitalist swine. some guy marching and cosplaying a soldier from the 1930s is meaningless. the elite do not fear these organized larpers, they fear the lone wolf, the assassin. besides, most organized politics of the extreme are crawling with feds.

The far left is basically frozen out of American politics.
Communism has been dead since 1991.

the press like the president are part of the managerial regime which preserves the capitalist status qou and smashes any threat to it. and you haver to be delusional not to think most journalists as a class arent socially liberal rejects

>>19674064
>>this is why all the economics/finance departments of every university in the world are heavily pro-capitalist and don't take Marxism seriously at all. Because they are leftists, you see
iirc in 1997 survey of american economists by political beliefs only 30% were claiming to be right wing

This is a lot in academia, one of the most right wing fields at the time(engineering was about 40% iirc), but your dick is kind of flaccid for the point you're trying to make here.

>>19659879
>Out of nowhere, it seems like people who liked Jordan Peterson are now obsessed with this guy.
Where on earth did you get that impression? Funny but I knew a socialist who liked Peterson

>>19675043
He was on Fox and has been doing a podcast circuit.

>>19659879
He's toned down since his blogging days, and the shift in the Overton window has helped some niche ideas become more popular. He's not super original - the Cathedral is probably the most unique contribution but even that is reminiscent of older conspiracy theories. I enjoy his writing but I don't think people should get excited about his increasing popularity. He seems quite a bit more lukewarm than before and more generically Republican or Libertarian from what I've seen.

>>19674064
What are you talking about?

In economics there are only two niche schools that are laissez faire, the Chicago (the larger one) and the Austrians (AnCaps that aren't taken seriously.

What is orthodox economics now is a merger with Keynesian and Classical economics which are supportive of government intervention in the economy.

>>19675066
Cathedral is an anti-conspiracy theory. It's le abstract systems with nobody consciously choosing stuff, emergent order. He really doesnt like the idea of actual conspiracies

>>19675066
>He was on Fox and has been doing a podcast circuit.
Is that it?
>>19675092
Not in this case. He mentions a clear difference between a system like Nazi Germany, with Goebels and Hitler directing culture, and the liberal one in some UR posts I forget the name

>>19674204
It's certainly true in the UK and Australia where Murdoch and his ilk have much power. Probably America and the rest of the first world too. Remember, identity politics is not sufficient to be left wing. Can you remember the last time you saw any major publication promote anti-capitalism? Seriously support an actual socialist? Yeah, I didn't think so. There's the woke capitalists and the non-woke capitalists. That's all.
>>19674232
True. I want to live in the reality that exists in the heads of neoreactionaries and just normal boomers who call Biden a socialist and such. Shit would be cash.
>>19674898
They can claim what they want. Liberals voting for the democrats often consider themselves left wing despite not being anything of the sort. If you go into an economics class talking about Marxism you will be laughed at and then told "actually, the status quo policies are really good, capitalism is great! btw I have a black lives matter sticker on my car, so I'm a leftist"
>>19675076
they may not be ancap nutters but they are very clearly not socialist or leftist. It's extraordinarily rare to find any truly left wing economist/academic. You can say this is because it is wrong or whatever, but that's besides the point - economists, and the universities they come from, are economically right wing. Similarly, countries like Norway and Sweden are not economically left wing countries just because they have universal healthcare or whatever. If leftists are secretly controlling the world, why are they giving us capitalism with a few safety nets (and not even this in America), instead of actual left wing economics? I bet there are way more laissez faire types than socialists in academia, in any case.

>>19675109
He doesn't think anyone directs culture in the Us. He thinks there is an evolving memeplex centered in the ivy league schools, which is mostly people trying to out-progressive one another.

>>19675110
>society is right-wing because it isn't progressive 2.0!
Yarvin talks about this line of thinking in UR. Also, just accept that Marx was wrong about the state and society and move on.

>>19675110
>they may not be ancap nutters
You're literally agreeing that right wing economics in academia are so rare that they're considered nutters

>>19675125
That's what I'm saying. He doesn't outright deny any and all conspiracies but the US and the west is not one.

>>19659879
adam rugusea lookin ass nigga

>>19675110
My man, you are all utilitarians in the end. You and theirs idea of a utopia is essentially just the spaceship in Wall E but with slightly different aesthetics