/lit/ - Literature

Stirner at home:

>>19654476
Atlas Shrugged is good from the 15% of it I actually read. Didn't bother going further but I would still recommend it somehow. It's bitter and intense, something to last through the ages.

>>19654476
i read atlas shrugged when i was 15. i thought it was super cool

>>19654526
this unironically. The way the conversations go is pretty interesting and it gives insight. But 15% is enough.

>>19654476
>aesthetic: cool
>economics: unobjectionable
>philosophy: garbage

Rand was a good novelist and popularizer of the Austrian school of economics, but not much of a philosopher. The Fountainhead is her best work. If you're interested in Rand as a novelist, start there. If you're more interested in economics or philosophy, skip Rand and just go straight to the source. Pic related.

>>19654586
>The Fountainhead
>Twelve publishers rejected the manuscript before an editor at the Bobbs-Merrill Company risked his job to get it published.
Some guy risked his ass to publish it so this better be good.

>>19654476
>1000 pages of strawman fantasies and boring monologues
>entertaining

>>19654476
Teenager tier. Babbys first edgy worldview

>>19654476
Not very good. Every single one of her characters are at best a quarter of a person

>>19654476
woman have no place in philosophy

>>19654784
why not?

>>19654754
What do you mean? Doesn't this apply to all literary characters? I hope you're not one of those delusional fools who think Shakespeare invented humans or some shit.

>entertaining to read?

No. John Galt's monologue is her best piece of writing because it dispenses with story and goes directly to her philosophy. Her attempts to cloak her beliefs in a story are sloppy as Ken Levine's.

Starship Troopers is better than any of her books as is Heinlin's philosophy.

>>19655001
>Her attempts to cloak her beliefs in a story are sloppy as Ken Levine's.
Isn't Levine anti-Rand?

>>19654476
i like atlas shrugged because trains and steel mills are based and i imagined the world having an art-deco look like batman tas.

>>19655006
>Isn't Levine anti-Rand?

Levine's anti-white. Bioshock Infinite's thesis is communism should have been a paradisical solution to white society but the innate evil of whites corrupted the purity of Marx, Engels, and other jews' deranged ideas.

Think how messed-up in the head you have to be to insist, when the implementation of your ideas is a horror-show, that it's not you or your philosophy that's at fault but the rest of mankind.

American Krogan goes into depth here
https://odysee.com/@americankrogan:3/BioShock-Series:0?lid=067734ff7f9fe49832836cbfe65c6353478fda43

>>19654626
It's not anon and it is a bit of a slog

>>19654751
What's an edgy worldview for adults?

>>19655127
Radical Islam

>>19654476
I read The Fountainhead and I liked it a lot. I think you have to read her work with an open mind; there's a lot of circlejerking from both directions (though primarily from the anti-Rand camp). I thought the themes of The Fountainhead were very masculine, despite being written by a woman. The sex scenes are essentially smut though.

>libertarian

>>19654476
some say her stories are bad because the characters are thinly veiled archetypes. I say they are good because her characters are thinly veiled archetypes. Her books are political in nature and should not pretend to be anything else. That said the cult she started around them went too far. Also I would start with anthem as it is a very good short story.

>>19654784
She seems like quite the tomboy to me. Her philosophy is really masculine and most modern (((men))) despise it

>>19654476
>how are they? I'm talking about The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Absolutely awful.
I couldn't finish Atlas Shrugged. Extremely boring.

>>19655145
The hatefuck sex scenes were a bit excessive but hot as fuck, I kind of have a thing for that sort of thing

>it was absolutely awful
>I didn’t read it though xD

>>19655229
You like forcy sex? Any book recs with this?

> She was influenced by Ayn Rand, in particular The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.[1] She describes her personality as 'intellectual' and 'systematic'.

>>19655186
Notice how libertarian haters never have any arguments against libertarians they just say that libertarians are "meme authors" and "not respected by the mainstream community" because they know libertarians can BTFO any argument they make.

Ayn rand is not even a libertarian BTW. She just gets thrown in.

We the Living is interesting, if only because Rand couldn't understand why anyone liked the Soviet character

>>19655285
Why did people like the Soviet fella?

>>19655296
>>19655186
>Look at me!
>I don't like thing!
This isn't plebbit, faggot. Signaling doesn't matter here.

>>19654476
>Who is going to stop me from collecting welfare? Hu!?

Read Stirner and Jack London instead.

>>19655408
Which Jack London book?

>>19655410
Any. How about Martin Eden?

>>19655389
No sense of humor randroid

>>19655413
>Any. How about Martin Eden?
Really? I thought you were going to say stuff like The Iron Heel, which is more political.

>>19655296
Matured into reading rothbard I hope

>>19655276
>help!! Police Im being attacked!!
>is the nature of the assault sexual or nonsexual?
>non sexual please hurry
>that will be $3000 will you be paying cash or card?
>I don’t have $3000 right now
>we can offer you a payment plan at only 150% interest!!
>I’ll just die thank you.

>>19655464
Hilarious bait

>>19655276
"The free market will solve it."

The free market monopolizes and combines the worst aspects of centralized power and corporate hierarchy.

"The free market will solve it."

A banana republic dictator strip-mines the country and sells it to a fruit company.

>>19655500
Your argument is against a business model not the concept of private security itself. No private security in existence does up front payment like that. they negotiate contracts in advance. Even then do you honestly think that in an emergency the police in this scenario would not be willing to wait until after the fact to get paid? they get 0$ if the victim is dead.
>>19655523
see >>19655276
>>19655524
How do those scenarios occur under the free market? Most monopolies and cartels exist because of the government.

>>19655413
>sense of humor
There's no joke. It's just "I don't like thing".
Plebbitors are incapable of intelligent criticism even when they happen to be correct.

Alright, panty-sniffers, be honest with me. If I had to chose one (1) of these two novels (The Fountainhead & Atlas Shrugged), which one would be the best to read? I want the one with the best aesthetics and narrative.

>>19655408
>uses the money from a program you've paid into your whole life that that you cannot refuse to pay into without being brought up on federal charges
>guess you like socialism after all lol gotcha

Retarded post

>>19655589
Read The Fountainhead first either way

>>19655589
I would read anthem first since it is very short and will let you grasp her style of writing quickly.

Rand was a genius and her books are epic. Read Anthem and We the Living to begin with - then Fountainhead before Atlas Shrugged. Ignore cretins on 4chan. Penguin sell ALL of her novels under their "Classic of American Literature" banner, and rightly so.

Atlas Shrugged is absolutely terrible. Anyone who says they liked that book is suspect. Not for any political reason, just terrible taste, and poor judgement of quality. It's badly written. Ridiculous, one dimensional characters, repeating over and over their shallow traits. The book has no right to be that long, because it makes it point after only a few pages, and the rest is pure tedium.

How do people just accept the character who's like some libertarian pirate sailing around in the atlantic ocean? It's just.. so fucking dumb.

Bioshock is a great game though.

>>19654476
>Politics aside, how are they?
Pretty juvenile, roughly on the level of your average genre-fiction or capeshit.
>I'm talking about The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.
Of course you are.
>Are they entertaining to read?
Sure, I guess, but again they're essentially genre fiction that are also full of themselves. Think of Rand as an autistically libertarian Isaac Asimov and you'll get pretty close to the thing itself.
>I've been told they influenced games like Bioshock.
Indeed they did, but not on any real substantial level that you should care about. Levine basically constructed bioshock as a critique of a shitty xeroxed version of some pseudo-randian society, so on a surface level you'll recognize elements but it doesn't go much deeper than that.

>>19654476
Some parts of Atlas are interesting but its really autistic. I was somewhat captivated by Anthem though. Can't say for The Fountainhead. I havent' read that one yet.

>>19655551
This is starting to sound a lot like you really want to say "true capitalism has never been tried"

>>19654476
I found "Atlas Shrugged" entertaining. It's obviously hyperbolic, but most writing is.

>>19655971
How much of a brainlet do you have to be to not understand the concept of a mixed economy? Wherever the government keeps its hands off that is where the economy usually does the best.

>>19654476
Yeah Id say 4/5.

Im a full ancap but she isnt a top 10 for me.

>>19655276
Libertarianism or free market capitalism are perfect and the best way to improve societt. The problem is only those that add value want it. The top 20% create 80% of value so thw bottom 80% wamt to steal. Libertarianism needs to exist in an ethno-state with an aristocracy. It cant exist in a democracy as the bottom 50% who dont add much value will just want to steal because they are useless.

>>19655500
Well no the state system is there are no cops or they beat you up. Provate police is common. Think armed security, gated communities with patrols or bodyguards. Youd pay a subscription just like you do now with taxes if they dont reduce crime in youbarea switch provider. That was a horrible example especially as private firefighters saved their clients properties when the state failed in CA. Libertarians problem is dealing with the low iq low value members of society.
>>19655524
Well the free market does solve problems cause thats how you make money in a capitalist society. You do have to rely on your politicians you vote with your dollar. Maybe you think politicians are noble and honest but that just makes you dumb.

Libertarianism is actually the best system just it needs the right culture that believes in freedom and value producing work above anything else.

Just compare Botswana or Georgia or Ireland or New Zealand with any other country they were similar before they dregulated and brought in free market reforms.

Truth is youre probably lazy or dumb so you need to steal from others.

>>19655186
No, not libertarian.

>>19654476
fountainhead is the BEST erotic novel of all time

>>19654784
>ada lovelace has no place in cybernetics

>>19654476
The politics & economics are predictably weak, but the style is brilliant and unique, very enjoyable to read once it clicks. Sends Lit BAs up the walls of course, added bonus.

I read about three quarters of The Fountainhead and other than the main character being an architect named Roark I literally do not remember a single thing about it. Other than the fact that it felt a lot longer than it actually was.

Psychopaths seem to love her, though.

>>19656444
>Libertarianism only works if you use the state to expel non-whites and set a oligarchy above everyone else
that is just going to turn into a tyranny of the minority. People have interests and differences other than race based ones.

>>19656135
Somalia has no functioning government.

Also lolbertarianism falls apart when any outside force can conquer the lolbertarian daydream land. Also why do you assume everyone inside the lolbertarian daydream would stick to the rules and not form a government? Maybe not an official government but something that can monopolize basic needs, tax citizens for using infrastructure and such?

>>19654476
Atlas Shrugged is fairly interesting as a case study in amphetamine hypopsychosis. It is well-known that Ayn Rand was a completely helpless megajunkie, who ate combined amphetamine and barbiturate pills several times daily. John Galts speech clocking in at 30.000+ words is a remarkable and fascinating example of just how self-absorbed, rambling and incoherent an amphetamine-junkie can be. It is the longest autistic screech penned in the history of humanity, and for that reason, if for no other, I think reading it can be worthwhile, out of a purely morbid curiosity.

>>19656444
Define value
Also how would an aristocratic ethnostate be ideal for a free market? Wouldn’t it just result in rampant nepotism and monopoly? You sound extremely contrarian

>>19658655
Somalia has no functioning government because socialists drove it to the brink of collapse. If you look at the stats the country has gotten better since barre left.

>lolbertarianism falls apart when any outside force can conquer the lolbertarian daydream land
Why would they be easily conquered?
>why do you assume everyone inside the lolbertarian daydream would stick to the rules and not form a government
Because a number of people who do not want a government would fight back against them if they tried to impose a government on others.

>>19654586
Austrian economics is pure Bullshit

>>19654476
They're shit

>>19654476
They're unironicaly some of the best. People disagree because they don't like her politics and can't evaluate her objectively. She has a clean and clear prose, her characters are some of the best in fiction, she has arguably two of the best villains in fiction (Toohey is literally up there with the Judge and Iago, and anyone who disagrees is wrong), and she masterfully integrates her themes throughout every facet of the novels.

>>19655001
Cringe. There's more to her novels than her philosophy, but to idiots who only care for philosophy, you get both, yet if you only focus on it, you miss what makes her novels great.

>>19658655
If you knew anything about Somalia you would realize how bad of an example that is.

>>19659992
Retard

>>19654476
Unfortunately nobody stopped her from writing her fucking books.

Thousands of pages of meaningless industrial drivel to space out her own power fantasies and her fictional harem of smart, strong good looking white men.

If anything it's a good insight into what women want- no I will go further. Any part of it that was written without the explicit intention of parading her ideas is good. It's in the little slips where you see who she really is, what she thinks like that you can get anything out of. Obviously that is a very minor part of the book, a colossal effort to show that, at the same time, she should be popular and contrarian. A gospel of high standards she never lived by

>>19654476
They are wonderful books. Just skip the multi-page speeches and remember early life so don't take subversion of Christian morality seriously.

Fountainhead is pretty much happening in real time at the moment. Creatives/innovators are fleeing to the crypto/metaverse to avoid the government going after their wealth and undesirables.

Everyone on 4chan and Reddit both hate it so it's probably good

>>19662863
>Everyone on 4chan hates it
No, only the socialists who post here hate it. They don't represent the board.
>The free market monopolizes and combines the worst aspects of centralized power and corporate hierarchy.
Why make up a bunch of scary buzzwords for simply consumers rewarding the best businesses with their money so that they can become more efficient?
>A banana republic dictator
Most modern dictators have come to power through democracy.

>>19655524
Corporate hierarchy bad just means you want businesses to be ran by the most inefficient people because of your feelings.

>>19654526
>>19654476
>>19654559
Aw shit niggers, nobody told me this board was gonna have girls over; do i have time to get rid of my piss bottles?

>>19661395
If you want there to be less books in the world do you even like reading?
>>19659992
see >>19655276

>>19654476
Ayn Rand wrote down her sexual fantasies with strong, good looking libertarian hero raping her self-insert. And she wrote said rape scene not once but TWO times, once in Atlas Shrugged and once in the Fountainhead. That shall tell you enough about female mental capabilities if a supposedly bright woman can't restrain herself from turning philosopical book into a porn fanfic.

>>19664268
>Ayn Rand wrote down her sexual fantasies with strong, good looking libertarian hero raping her self-insert.
For real, I could not believe how much of Atlas Shrugged was set scenes that clearly showed Ayn Rand's rape fetish that she's deluded herself into thinking all women share, judging by the way she wrote the scenes.

>>19664603
>set scenes
Obviously I meant sex scenes.

>>19664268
it's political erotica and everyone is reading it wrong

>>19664268
>>19664603
Don't listen to this anons, they are trying to bait you into reading a 1000 page novel. I fell for that, don't make the same mistake. Sadly, there are no rape scenes in Atlas Shrugged.

>>19664666
I'm not trying to bait anyone, it's the truth that Dagny is clearly written to have a consensual non-consent fetish given that it explicitly says that she didn't want to consent and didn't have to multiple times.

>>19665041
You don't sound like someone who would read the entire Atlas Shrugged. Also, there's clearly no rape and no consensual non-consent mental gymnastics can change that.

The Fountainhead is a legit masterpiece, and both Peter Keating and Gail Wynand are some of the most psychologically interesting characters in 20th century American literature. I recommend it wholeheartedly.

We the Living is a legit good read too.

I think Atlas Shrugged is surprisingly tightly written, given the size, and I can't think of anything I'd suppress of that book. Literally every single word feels essential to illustrate the plot and themes Rand wanted to convey. It's a little too hysterical in its rhetoric though, which brings it down, but Rand is very much adept at integrating plot and theme in her novels.

Overall I think she's a very talented writer who's overlooked for political reasons. The Fountainhead is her best work.

>>19665220
Francisco basically fucks Dagny without caring about her consent when they have sex for the first time. Rand deals with it the same way she dealt with rape in the Fountainhead - via insinuations that the woman was actually inviting the man to go rough on her - but the description of the act is clearly of the man forcefully asserting his ownership of the woman. She definitely had a fetish for this shit.

>>19665220
>You don't sound like someone who would read the entire Atlas Shrugged.
Not sure what you mean by that, but I'm about 60% of the way through reading it for a class next semester. Also, what he said:
>>19665459

>>19665753
Plus a scene where she mocks retarded children

Bad writer but the sex scenes are good to masturbate to

>if you're not willing to take the fall for some actress's crime you're an absolute traitor to ideals you swore to uphold

>>19654476
>>19654626
>>19655145
>The Fountainhead
just watch the 1949 movie
it's a decent movie, worth watching at least once
the book... well... I only lasted a few pages

>>19656444
tripfag your opinions are bad

>>19654486
Stirner in the Kitchen:

>>19657606
This myth again...

>>19654476
"Atlas Shrugged" is entertainingly over-the-top.

>>19654476
It is impossible to give a review of Ayn Rand's work because she writes it so that you are reviewing both a philosophy and a fictional story. This would be fine except if you criticize anything about how you did not enjoy her writing style it is assumed you are against her philosophy and labeled as unable to see past their own political views to judge art. Because it is unable to be judged on artistic merit without accepting it's [sic] political ideals, it is not art.

>>19670445
>>19654486
Other than the use of the word "egoism", there is very little in common between Rand and Stirner's philosophies. Even "egoism" in their systems means fundamentally different things.

>>19670448
anon if you can pls correct me. I want to know why it's a myth as i'm trying to figure out machines without recursion(if it's even possible) and lovelace has some great pre-computational stuff that's epistemically different modern computation.

>>19654476
Ayn Rand's novels probably are pretty interesting.

Her portrayal of industrial capitalists is obviously very open to criticism though. She's stuck in the myth that they actually are self-interested egotists whose happiness is their predominant concern. Obviously, their happiness is completely subordinate to the circulation and expansion of capital.

>>19670623
spoken like a true stirnerite