/lit/ - Literature

use this one

What is wrong with america?
How did they come this far?

>sucking big pharma cock
Tobacco and coffee

With picrel you are just saying you're probably a druggie without realizing

Green tea, aniracetam and tribulus terrestris. After a while you feel like such a chad that you stop reading and lift weights instead.

A pot of tea works wonders

>>19651265
You can get ritalin in france? I've got it in mx and concerta in cn

>>19651265
i got a few boxes a while ago, but i don't use them often. i have to take them in the morning, otherwise I can't sleep

>>19651887
>aniracetam
why do I only get the most bizarre looking people when I put this on a youtube query?

>>19651292
This plus aspirin

>>19651932
Where did you get them from?

>>19651959
Because the nootropics scene is filled with nutjobs and self-medicated autists who don't care about being weird anymore thanks to their pharmacological-induced hypomania. Just research the compounds online, read the pubmed papers and everything will be fine

It stifles any and all interesting thoughts and puts you in loops of the same boring logical sequences, plus it makes you jack off for an ungodly amount of time.

Don't take stims and read, just get comfy.

>>19651292
This plus alcohol in the afternoon and evening (sherry and brandy respectively).

>>19652004
mom's a shrink

>>19652173
Ig it doesn't matter what country for that. I can't use the American system because it's oddly very bureaucratic and holistic. If you say you got prescribed in mx or cn they get warning flags going through their head but I can walk into any hospital in cn and just say I need those drugs and I get them.

>>19652043
It's ritalin but even w adderall I have a few great new insights every day. You might just be confronting the fact that you're uninteresting. If you study metaphysics etc and push through it you'll get a few good insights every day.

>>19651265
>I need Ritalin to retain what I read
Dude just focus it's not that hard

>>19652220
>I lift without eating protein
Sure have fun man

>>19652226
He's right. If you need stimulants as a crutch to absorb and retain information then you're a hopeless retard who will never achieve anything

ritalin will eventually make you ADHD if you stop using it. The ultimate cope

>>19652512
Hopeless retards like Kerouac, Auden and Erdos?

>>19652512
>if you need body armor to absorb a shot you're a failed human
>just raise your bullet tolerance by raising calibers
You're a human. You can't live without productive sleep, you need proper nutrients and you can't study for 4-12 hours in peak form every day. You have "adhd".

>>19652520
>Kerouac
Wrote one famous book
>Auden
Literally who
>Erdos
>Discrete """mathematics"""

>>19652519
Studies show long term behavior isn't changed.

>>19652565
""studies""

huberman lab talks about it. Saps dopamine IIRC

>>19652575
I think a yter isn't necessarily a good aggregate of info but that is applicable to adderall iirc.

I didn't want to start a new thread, but anyone got any recommendations for Audiobooks/book packs?
I want to listen to a bunch of classics or good books without having to scour through a bunch of bad quality digitized cassette recordings.

>>19652623
In /t/ they have a bunch of the the great courses (ttc) torrents which are high quality. They provide good resources to study further.

Bump

>>19651265
I have actual ADHD and this thing for does nothing for me. Coffee just knocks me out, too. What does it do for you, OP?

>>19653586
>le, I have adhd so when I smoke meth I literally get a good night's rest
This is "contact high from weed" tier

I've known 3 people who went schizophrenic from adderall/ritalin abuse while being convinced they were fine throughout the entire long spiral into it

lots of water, exercise, abstinence from sugar, mindfulness meditation, and note-taking. keto or fasting if i want to have stimulant effects.
i used adderall for many years, but i think it's trash for writing. that's the problem with the entire beat generation. i also think it splits me from my emotion, which gives my work the best of its qualities. if I REALLY NEED some sort of extra oomph, i'll take some high quality ginkgo.

>>19653676
>>19653677
This weird dualism crap. Ritalin doesn't affect long term behavior, many studies show this. Just google them. Also schizophrenia is biological. Psychotic events is a symptom which can be had from drugs, stress etc.
>Contrary to clinical concerns, we found no evidence that initiation of methylphenidate treatment increases the risk of psychotic events in adolescents and young adults, including in those individuals with a history of psychosis.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30189-0/fulltext

>>19651292
>sucking big tobacco and big coffee cock

>>19653705
This would require a meta-analysis that is also sensitive to the extreme probability of academic astroturfing by pharma interests who obviously don't want their drug to look bad.

Either way, I recommend having gone through a few friendships with /lit/ type people as they go from (1) convinced their "ADHD drugs" make them into superproductive geniuses, (2) rapidly sliding into reliance on them, (3) rapidly and imperceptibly sliding into what is obviously (to others, but not themselves) persistent mania, (4) even more rapidly sliding into paranoid and psychotic delusions.

Even if all that has nothing to do with the drug itself, in a perfectly healthy individual, the correlation suggests some strong overlap with the sorts of people who would seek out prescription meth as a nootropic in the first place.

After having dealt with this process several times, I can almost detect when an anon on /lit/ is abusing these drugs sometimes. The "edgy," pre-paranoid mania is obvious.

>>19653735
No it wouldn't you prick. Find one study that shows ritalin can increase the risk of psychotic events. If you can find one then you can be a bit more justified in saying a meta analysis is needed. No what you need is a single study that can show this and you would have to invent a new science, probably, that doesn't work to draw that conclusion. There are certainly risk factors for everything, even water, so mitigating risk factors of ritalin is appropriate but literally no study that I have ever seen implies anytging except that Ritalin doesn't cause long term behavior issues and you can use psychosis diagonoses as a metric or anything else but you'll have to justify it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068472/

>>19653783
You're being dishonest about the risks of Ritalin, in my opinion. Anyone can google any combination of Ritalin + psychosis, Ritalin + mental illness, Ritalin side effects, and at least establish that what I'm saying isn't unprecedented or non sequitur. All I said was that to have this discussion meaningfully, we'd have to have a reasonably professional assessment of the research on the topic, its main points of consensus and dissensus, any common biases in reporting or conducting studies, etc.

The real point being that if you're interested in saturating your brain with these drugs to increase your Starcraft ladder level, you should probably do your own research first. Which I hope even you will agree is a fair point.

Another point is that a lot of pro-ADHD meds advocates emphasize that they are safe (dubious in itself) if taken in exactly the way they are prescribed. But of course, as I specified above, we're talking about people interested in taking them as nootropics. About half the people I know who abused them and fucked their lives up acquired them from friends as "study drugs," and the other half had dubiously legitimate prescriptions. Neither group obeyed their prescription or any normal prescription for how to use the drug. They used them as study drugs and then slipped into being, essentially, manic and psychotic cokeheads, usually within a couple months.

>>19653839
One this is ritalin, not general adhd drugs which some can increase the risk (although for amphetamines the risk is still really low, it's not meth).
Two, I literally posted a study review so I'm not sure what you're talking about reading for.

This is out of 110,923 ritalin users and 110,923 amphetamine users, pr
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6543546/

So there's no real control group.

No you can't just talk out your ass because then you risk making ppl mitigate incorrectly. There are risks to everything and ppl need to mitigate correctly.

No, adhd drugs aren't "wonder drugs". You still need an interest etc. You can abuse drugs, including ritalin, but the risk behavior for ritalin hasn't been shown above say addictions to other things. So if you have issues w "coffee addictions" you should mitigate it by only taking 5 or 10mg a day (as really everyone should because your tolerance doesn't really increase).

>>19653672
What the fuck are you talking about? I've never done weed.

>>19654064
Nor have I done meth

>>19653677
>keto or fasting if i want to have stimulant effects.
Thinking of taking the ketopill too. What's your experience with it been like?

I find it truly bizarre how neurotypicals can gain anything from using this as a "nootropic". This stuff straight up makes me a catatonic retard

>>19651887
green tea lowers test, helps with inflammation which itself lowers test so maybe if you were badly inflamed to begin with it might raise it a little bit

>>19653705
bro i was on the shit since i was seven. my life changed considerably when i stopped using it at 18. information retention, impulse control, emotional control, everything changed. i have a store of the stuff and if i use it, an entirely different individual with different memory access and emotion comes to the fore. you want to be in denial that a fucking STIMULANT has long term effects on your brain, be my guest, but flash your dipshit clinical studies elsewhere. only thing you'll get from me is a knuckle sandwich. go get your crutch on, bitch.

>>19654211
don't expect miracles, but it does give considerable focus improvements in my experience, but that's only in the sub-five gram carb range. my suggestion is to be careful, but try it. you might like it.

>>19654431
Can you describe more the changes you experienced?

A friend of mine is considering using vyvanse because he's very scatterbrained and says it once helped him, but he also worries it makes him a different person.

>>19653735
I can believe that, I've had too high dosages of amphetamines before. There is a notable tendency to tunnel vision to extreme extents and your mind just cannot stop moving. It's like if someone was trying to dance by doing every step at once, there's no rhythm, smoothness, or sense of control, just quickly jerking from pose to pose. I wouldn't be surprised if taking too much of that stuff for too long can result in manic symptoms, hell I've caught myself in similar loops, and even after I've realized what's going on I've never been able to do anything except ride it out.

>>19652216
Addict cope. Adderall makes you feel like a genius until you read what you wrote later and realize it makes you drop 20 iq points.

>>19654507
If you at your peak is shit then that's your fault anon. Try to self actualize a bit.

>>19654507
This. Go read the ritalin subreddit. Every single post is a mile long insufferable rant.

You won't remember anything once you sober up. Phenibut is god mode though.

>>19651287
Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker
Ceremonial Chemistry by Thomas Szasz
The Medicalization of Everyday Life by Thomas Szasz
The Counter-Revolution of Science by Friedrich Hayek

>>19654518
My peak is when I'm sober. Try to self actualize and realize stims are making you stupider and the mania is blinding you to that fact.

>>19654450
i had to learn to use my mind all over again, savage withdrawals, brain fog, immense frustration, rage in general. you name the complication, i had it.
emotionally i was a dessicated shell, isolated from others despite having a rather empathic disposition while sober, overall, i think you should urge your friend to try everything but, though it's likely he'll do whatever he wants. vyvanse is one of the more quality stims on the market. very even-flow, thoughts arrive like butterflies. in any case, i personally grew so misanthropic that any benefits from increased focus were nullified. as it now stands, exercise, meditation, and sheer will, PRACTICE, gives me not the same focus, but something arguably better, as it doesn't rob me of my heart. Being genuine has become more important to me by far than any damn show of intelligence. Besides, that's just another thing i won't be able to take with me when I die, amassed knowledge. Just another damn distraction. This is all down to the individual, though. I'm glad you're concerned for your buddy. It's important to really measure the pros and cons with something as serious as a stimulant. So many people have lost *everything* to addiction to stims.

based pharma crackheads

>>19654541
damn right. sobriety is the true state of man at his height. this 100% fuckin percent. so many people have to scrape for drugs for self improvement, but nothing like good old fashioned home grown humans.

>>19654507
>>19654519
Yeah this is what I've noticed in the people I've seen develop psychosis from abusing them (I'm the anon above who was talking about this). It's funny, I know from other friends that the same feeling of being on the cusp of epiphanies or having constant epiphanies can come from LSD and other psychotropics as well, but then when you come down from them, the epiphany seems lost or "flattened" and you can get into a loop of assuming you need just one more trip to hold onto it. I think this is the root of many burnouts, since they do are chasing that dragon every weekend but it's always receding.

Each of my friends who has fallen into this with stimulants has had this symptom, grandiosity and total conviction that they're right, but all they're really doing is manic rambling. And then later on in their burnout, the manic conviction will apply to things that aren't even genius "discoveries" anymore, it will just be free-floating insanity at that point, or focused on paranoid delusions.

Something affected by most drugs (dopamine?) must be responsible for this common side effect of manic certainty that you're right and "onto something" or "about to have the breakthrough." It reminds me of the psychologist Csikszentmihalyi's term, "flow," but untethered from any actual experience. It's like your brain is supposed to use that feeling to make you feel involved in some activity, but drugs just open the floodgates, so you end up feeling it about getting a hamburger.

>>19652520
>Kerouac
Anon no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYgv7ur8ipg&t=6s&ab_channel=FiringLinewithWilliamF.Buckley%2CJr..

This is an interview with Kerouac a few years before his death. He is 46. This is what his Beatnik lifestyle did to him.
"On the Road" was one of my favorite books growing up so this was probably one of the most depressing things I've ever watched. Stims and drugs in general will make you strike like lightning but crash like thunder.

>>19653677
Chad answer here

>>19652520
Notice how he leaves out Phillip K Dick (arguably more famous than any of them) who went full schizo from amphetamines

>>19654617
not to be pedantic, but Dick was definitely full schizo already, he probably went so far into schizodom that he popped out into the normieverse but 200 years into the future

>>19654519
>>19654541
>>19654543
>>19654552
>>19654558
Y'all have no idea what you're talking about. There have been several studies posted here. Y'all are conflating amphetamines w methylphebidate which was addressed in a study.
There are people w addiction problems. People w those addiction problems may have it exacerbated if they take amphetamines.
Stimulants stimulate you so there should be no surprise there. Coffee is a stimulant too.
On top of all that, people are uninteresting on or off drugs. The point of adhd pills is, like y'all have been asserting, to help you focus. That is it, it's not a wonder drug that helps addicts not be addicts etc. It has some risks that are physical that you must mitigate against assuming some issues like kidney or heart issues but that's similar w a lot of things.
If you can't focus for 4-12 hours every day for 8 months on writing/reading projects at peak performance then you have adhd.

Now everyone I replied to, who has never taken ritalin, should never take it. This would be mitigating the risk of an explosion of your big head.

>>19654734
>Y'all
>Y'all
>w
>w
>w
>take stimulants like me

ladies and gentleman, exhibit A(IDS)

>>19654734
man shut the fuck up. you're a fucking meth head.
nothing you've said has been worth a speck of my attention, sober or otherwise. you deserve to be caned into submission.
i reiterate: shut the fuck up. i bet you thought that was a well presented post, too.

>>19651265
caffeine does the same if you get enough, and it won't even destroy your brain in the process

>>19654450
Not that guy but I used to be on Vyvanse, switched to Adderall XR cause it was cheaper. He's right that it changes more than just your ability to focus, it's not like my personality switched or anything like that but it definitely affects your behavior. The drug drives you keep your mind occupied, it doesn't want to stop thinking and it's easy to get lost in the motion and not realize that you're moving way to fast.
Sometimes there's a clarity of thought that comes with it, and sometimes it just feels like my brain is spinning beyond my control and I'm just desperately trying to hang on. It gives you a tendency to tunnel vision, and sometimes it can be difficult to direct your mind in certain directions.

Impulsivity becomes more difficult in some ways, it's harder to do stuff without thinking when you literally can't stop thinking. Emotions and thoughts that I previously would have been able to move on from quickly stick around longer. I found it harder to just be present in the moment and appreciate the things around me as they are, I actually ended up learning meditation to help with that. I wouldn't say it changes your personality traits but it definitely changes your behavior, if that makes sense. And on some level this is the intended result, the whole point of the drug is to alter the way your brain behaves. It's only natural that this results in differences in how a person thinks, and thinking differently causes you to act differently. I don't know if anyone else can notice the differences in my behavior when I'm on the drug, but I most certainly can, even after taking it daily for years.

In the end it was and is helpful for me which is why I'm still taking it, but if I'd found any other methods that were effective for me that didn't alter my neurochemistry I'd be using those instead. I might still try and get off it at some point in the future and see if I can better cope now that I'm older and in a different place in my life. It kind of sticks in my craw that my ability to be a functional adult is dependent on a pill I have to take every morning. But that's just personal principle, if that's the only way to do it then that's just how its gotta be. I'm far from the only person that has to rely on doing something they don't like in order to make it through life.


I've gotten a bit off topic, but the bottom line is that it will change how he behaves, that's literally what the drug is designed for, but it won't make him a different person. He'll just have to learn to work with a different brain. i hope that helps your friend.

>>19654758
>>19654789
Ahh the cope and the seethe. I suppose your big heads exploded a bit already. You'll go absolutely insane when you figure out that adhd meds help you focus and it's not some lizardmen front for overtaking the west w covid, meth cults.

Here are some studies, >>19653705
>>19653783
>>19653918

Feel free to cope and say they're paid for by meth companies to trick ppl into we tf y'all call it.

>>19654431
>i have a store of the stuff and if i use it, an entirely different individual with different memory access and emotion comes to the fore
Are the lizardmen in the room rn?

>>19654819
you're a retard nigger.

>>19654734
>Y'all are conflating amphetamines w methylphebidate
Lmao I knew you were going to say this. I've tried both. We're talking about both

>>19654825
nope, just a retarded nigger on my screen.
stop using drugs to try to make up for your shitty genes.
YWNBW

>>19654819
Nobody brought up lizardmen and covid. Classic stim schizo deflection

>>19654807
That's the craziest shit I ever heard. It's like a sunday school preacher explanation.
Anyways taking Adderall (especially xr) can be overstimulative and if it is then take less. Even better take a less stimulative drug that is more for focus. Adderall is if you have low motivation too. Ritalin doesn't attempt to deal w that as much.

Anyways behavior is defined a particular way. So long term behavior means on and off after a certain amount of years taking it. How behavior can be defined is in mental illnesses. A lot of metrics used can be depression or psychosis. A study here goes over it >>19653918

>>19654829
Then you aren't talking about methylphenidate that the studies are talking about but the shit you get from your friends who found it in a dumpster or their grandma's cabinet. There are 3 studies here and they were all posted by me and none of them say what you think.

>>19654841
>>19654830
>>19654826
Well we definitely confirmed y'all's demographic. Perpetually online zoomers who have literally done nothing in their lives.

>>19654849
>I've done something with my life because I've used drugs

>>19654849
That makes it even more pathetic. I thought you could have just been a dumb kid but you're a 30 year old boomer that needs meth to just to function normally

>>19654849
i've read enough retarded nigger speech for one night. see "y'all" later.

>>19654855
Handsome troll.

>>19654864
Ahhh. I needs what da zoomers call prescription meth. The whole medical community has a meme for alt right zoomers:

>>19654896
Again, nobody mentioned right-wing politics. Not surprising that a 30 year old druggie burnout is resentful of youth

>>19654845
Motherfucker he asked for personal experiences and I gave him mine, fuck off with your bullshit. I don't give a shit about whether you think it's right or not, I know what I feel and I know my own thoughts.

I was describing my experiences on Vyvanse, not Adderall (or Ritalin), which is what the anon was asking about. Also I have tried taking smaller doses, anything lower than what I'm currently taking isn't effective. My experiences with Adderall are similar but generally more bumpy. >>19654543 is right, Vyvanse comes on smoother and doesn't have the kinds of peaks and valleys that other stimulants do. He's also right that I would really only reccomend turning to stimulants if nothing else seems to work, I tried everything else I could think of before resorting to amphetamines, and I'm still thinking of trying to get myself off them if I ever have an opportunity to without majorly disrupting my life.

>>19654959
Well ask your dr, they have lighter forms but ritalin helped me the most. Not super stimulative just helps on focus.

>>19653672
Ritalin gets me jacked up, but I agree with him about coffee. It makes me want to take a nap. No idea why.

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't bode well for the pro-amphetamine position ITT that its chief representative is a twitter tranny who says "y'all need to grow up w your misconceptions about heteronormativity and POCs smdh"

>>19655141
It's like speedy tiredness you mean?

>>19655149
Yes zoomer I have no idea what half of what you said is.

>>19655243
I guess so. Maybe its from too much at once. A coffee nap is nice though.