/lit/ - Literature

>>19651605
Even if a certain pessimist is right about every objective claim they make, I have never understood how they could assign a normative value. Take Schopenhauer, he says that life sucks because desire and striving are never satisfied. Why is never reaching contentment a bad thing? Why is the state of desiring bad? I don’t know how you could even evaluate the world as being bad or good, it simply is as it is.

>>19651628
The problem is I have a human brain that associates that with being bad, if I had a dog brain I wouldn't mind as I'd have no understanding of the constant struggle, but my human brain and for some unknown reason it's biology calls for closure which I cannot give it

>>19651639
Is pain and struggle a bad thing? It seems to me that you only think this world is bad because you have an idea of some sort of better type of world more befitting your mind. Do you not know that everything is the product of necessity? It couldn’t be any other way, so what is simply is. It cannot be compared to anything else.

>>19651757
If I am brain, then I have physical qualities, if I have physical qualities, then I can't just change them. I never decided for pain and struggle to be a bad think, my biology did and getting rid of that would require suicide - I didn't decide to long for a better world - I was made that way

>>19651757
>>19651628
you will never be a woman

>>19651778
> If I am brain
pretty big if

>>19651864
well idk some people will say I'm a soul and shit like that

>>19651778
Well you can always kill yourself, there’s nothing wrong with suicide. There’s also nothing right with it, so don’t take this as something as strong as a recommendation.

>>19651872
So it turns out that pessimism isn’t a foregone conclusion then huh?

>>19651899
But no one's really proved that, anything other then "you are a brain" requires faith which could be true but in all honesty probably isn't

>>19651968
> anything other then "you are a brain" requires faith
materialism requires just as much faith anon

>>19652065
how?

>>19652094
It’s never been proved and involves taking a far-fetched theory (the universe exists naturally on its own just because and insentient matter magically combines to evolve sentience) as true without it being confirmed

>>19651605
Read this.

Middle Way or Daoism is the best option we have

>>19651628
It's simple. It's a futile cycle that never leads anywhere. Where does it all end? What is the point of suffering when there is nothing to be gained?

>>19651605
How do I start with him?
(I have never read a philosophy book)

Just meditate, you don't need to read books to know the meaning of it all. There are no words to use.

>>19651605
>not enjoying the struggle for what it is
>not opposing the world even if it leads to pessimistic conclusion
wtf man, where is your spirit? I though you have started with greeks, anon.

>>19651605
Schopenhauer is right, but he is German. He has no sense of humor. His model of Will and Representation works well but his characterizations of the will were always negative. Eastern Philosophy has a similar system, but they approach it with more humor. Suffering can be pretty funny from a certain perspective. Pointless suffering especially so. Listen to some Alan Watts lectures on YouTube.

>>19654300
'On the Fourthold Root The Principle of Sufficient Reason' is his foundation for his further works. You may have to check Kant first however; and go back and forth to have a good understanding on the 'Principle of Sufficient Reason. Kant's page on Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosopy is a good start.

>>19651857
seethe

>>19651778
>muh biology
cringe, pain is irrelevant

>>19654422
Thank you.

>>19654449
>pain is irrelevant
Absolutely euphoric! in this edgelord moment

Hey Zapffebro, I had an thought.

So, we know Zap seems to correctly identify the reason we use the four mechanisms, which is a balm against cosmic uncertainty. What we don't know, or Zapffe never explicitly said, was the metaphysical truth value of any one or more mechanisms.

For example; A man converts to Christianity via anchoring. Dies, and meets Jesus is heaven.

Extreme, I know, but when we consider the variety of mechanisms, we so far have only focused on the path to the mechanism and not its possible truth value.

We also needn't only consider a possible metaphysical utility. An improvement in living conditions, causing less suffering for the individual, can of course be obtained through a Zapffe cope.

Example: Blue Face tribe is shitting in the water. Genocide Blue Face tribe. Now I get sick less. Still have to die. Still removed from nature's ignorance. Still no discernible purpose, but tummy feel better.

So, point being, there is a utility beyond cope.

>>19654300
>>/lit/thread/S19550924

>>19655082
Hey, anon. I'm actually not OP this time. Hope you're doing well.

I'm over the Zapffe thing (for now)

That's a strong point, though. I'm in a better state of mind now and can think a little more objectively. I would say I'm back to a place of agnosticism.

>>19655207
I figured you weren't OP, I just knew you would be drawn here like an ant towards a pineapple lifesaver candy baking on a noonday sidewalk.

Glad you're dealing with pessimist paralysis well.

>>19655269
Absolutely!

I would love to leave this place, it's terrible for me

>>19651605
> is this really the conclusion of all human thought?
Only if you are a materialistic hylic that can't think outside the confines of the physical world.
If you want to find a way to escape pain, anger, sadness, hatred, misery and lack of purpose you need to explore the realm of metaphysics, philosophy and theology.
Take the reins of your life, build your own rivers just so that you can build your own bridges.

>>19651605

That is the equilibrial contraction of one's person, not pessimism; optim(al)istic personalism pertains to being in syncord with Christ.


>"Where you gonna go, where you gonna run, where you gonna hide? Nowhere... 'cause there's no one like you left."

>>19651605
>>19652172
This. There is only beliefs. Decide to believe otherwise. Choose a positive belief. Choose the way, the truth, and the life. Seek and you shall find.

>>19656047
>Choose a positive belief
Even working from a non-materialist framework, why choose a positive belief by default? All the evidence points to indifference or even malice towards positive valence states.

Even working from idealism, I'd still say pessimism has the most corroborating evidence. Now the thing that chews humans up and spits them out is some metaphysical force, is all.

>>19654300
essays, don't listen to the spazz telling you to start with his books if you are new to philosophy, he wrote a bunch of essays just for people like you

>>19651605
pessimism is way harder than you think, OP. you keep trying to flee it because you're not hard enough. just go read nietzsche and be an idiot like every other technoliberal cunt

>>19654300
Don't listen to the guy who wrote that you should first get acquainted with Kant, and then read fourfold principle of sufficient faggotry. Watch comfy 45 minute long video essay that explains his metaphysics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-djIdl8WO4&