/lit/ - Literature

Nabokov seethed endlessly about Faulkner, to the point where he had a dream where Faulkner kissed his wife. Dream-cucked.

Hemingway seethed about Sherwood Anderson and James Joyce to the point where he wrote a cringy novel and 'imitation' of them.

Virgina Woolf seethed about Eliot and Joyce in her letters.

>>19640130
>Hemingway seethed about Sherwood Anderson and James Joyce to the point where he wrote a cringy novel and 'imitation' of them.
Which novel?

>>19640670
"The Torrents of Spring." It's a novella, sorry.

>>19640670
Not that anon but I think it was 'The Torrents of Spring'
I'm pretty sure Pauline Pfeiffer (his wife and part-time editor at the time) begged him not to publish it because she thought it would hurt his career or something

>>19640687
nope I fucked up, it was Hadley Richardson
>The Torrents of Spring is a novella written by Ernest Hemingway, published in 1926. Subtitled "A Romantic Novel in Honor of the Passing of a Great Race", Hemingway used the work as a spoof of the world of writers. It is Hemingway's first long work and was written as a parody of Sherwood Anderson's Dark Laughter.
>It was widely believed that Hemingway wrote The Torrents of Spring in an effort to get out of his contract with his publisher Boni & Liveright, though Hemingway denied this. They held the right of first refusal for his next three books, one of which was to be a novel, with the proviso that the contract would be terminated if one of the three were rejected. By rejecting Torrents, Boni & Liveright terminated the contract. In his letters, Hemingway shows a passionate affection for his novella. He corresponded with Sherwood Anderson in May–July 1926, stating that his motivation for writing his first long work was more motivated by his refusal to "pull punches" and encourage sub-par work out of Anderson—as his peer—and not to simply get out of a contract with Boni & Liveright.
>The work is generally dismissed by critics and seen as vastly less important than The Sun Also Rises, which was published in the same year. Hadley Richardson, Hemingway's wife at the time, believed his characterization of Anderson was "nasty", while John Dos Passos considered it funny but did not want to see it published. F. Scott Fitzgerald, on the other hand, considered the novella a masterpiece.

>>19640687
Apparently Scott Fitzgerald thought it was a masterpiece and encouraged him to publish it. Why were those two riding each other's dicks so hard in those days?

>>19640719
>Why were those two riding each other's dicks so hard in those days?
They saw each other's peepees and had a macho jerk off session.

>>19640719
They were both notorious closeted homosexuals

>>19640726
This.

>>19640719
They had a very interesting relationship. Apparently when they first met, Hemingway saw himself as the macho experienced world-traveled adventurer journalist and writer, and he saw Fitzgerald as the young fresh-faced American to whom he could give writing advice and tips. In reality it was the opposite: Hemingway had only published a couple of short stories (and no novels; he met Fitzgerald at a bar in Paris in 1925 and his first novels wouldn't be published for another year) and mostly did journalistic pieces and war correspondence; Fitzgerald had published several novels by the time he met Hemingway (The Great Gatsby was published two weeks before they met at that bar) and he had loads more writing experience than Hemingway did; however, Fitzgerald a prissy baby-faced man who was used to high society and was probably intimidated by Hemingway's ultra-macho personality, and the effect was probably compounded by Zelda constantly cucking him too

>>19640726
There's a known fact that Fitz was sad because Zelda told him his cock was short and then Hemingway told him to show his cock to him, Fitz pulls his pants down and pulls out his thing, turns out his size is average according to Hem and it's all normal. A gesture of manly camaraderie to cheer up his friend or deep homosexual impulse to see a man's cock?

>looks doesn't matter...

>>19640761
what the fuck lmao
>Chapter 19: A Matter of Measurements
>Once, much later, in the time after Zelda had what was then called her first nervous breakdown and we happened to be in Paris at the same time, Scott asked me to have lunch with him at Michaud’s restaurant on the corner of the rue Jacob and the rue des Saints-Pères. He said he had something very important to ask me that meant more than anything in the world to him and that I must answer him absolutely truly. I said that I would do the best that I could. For a long time, when he would ask me to tell him something absolutely truly, which is very difficult to do, and I would try it, the thing that I would say would make him angry; often not when I said it but afterwards, and sometimes long afterwards when he had brooded on it and it would be something that would have to be destroyed and sometimes, if possible, me with it.
>[...] I kept waiting for it to come, the thing that I had to tell the absolute truth about; but he would not bring it up until the end of the meal, as though we were having a business lunch.
>Finally when we were eating the cherry tart and had a last carafe of wine he said, “You know I never slept with anyone except Zelda.”
>“No, I didn’t.”
>“I thought I had told you.”
>“No. You told me a lot of things but not that.”
>“That is what I have to ask you about.”
>“Good. Go on.”
>“Zelda said that the way I was built I could never make any woman happy and that was what upset her originally. She said it was a matter of measurements. I have never felt the same since she said that and I have to know truly.”
>“Come out to the office,” I said. “Or you go out first.”
>“Where is the office?”
>“Le water,” I said.
>We came back into the room and sat down at the table.
>“You’re perfectly fine,” I said. “You are O.K. There’s nothing wrong with you. You look at yourself from above and you look foreshortened. Go over to the Louvre and look at the people in the statues then go home and look at yourself in the mirror in profile.”
>“Those statues may not be accurate.”
>“They are pretty good. Most people would settle for them.”
I thought the whole dick measuring thing was a shitpost or something but nope

>>19640761
>Zelda said that the way I was built I could never make any woman happy and that was what upset her originally. She said it was a matter of measurements.
Zelda was the type of girl who gets a kick off playing with a weak man's insecurities. She would have been singing a completely different tune if Scott was out there having other women. Vile cunt.

>>19640803
It evidently didn't matter for Fitzgerald >>19640814
If you are insecure a woman will fuck you up no matter how handsome you are. Not all of them but a lot of them will.

>>19640726
Homosexuals are fucking lame nowadays. Why cant they just marry a girl and direct their homopowers in a proactive way?

>>19641014
It seems to be a taboo topic and considered a scapegoat nowadays, but seems to be a constant thing on the femme side of many relationships.

Makes sense I suppose.

>>19640726
I'm pretty sure Hemingway was a closeted tranny, dk about Fitz

>>19641014
>Not all of them but a lot of them will.
Out of 10 women how many of them will fuck you up of you're insecure?

>>19641035
>I'm pretty sure Hemingway was a closeted tranny
Nah, his mom just fucked him up. It didn't come from him and it didn't continue from him.

>>19641040
I can't bring up numbers because don't have too much experience with women but I had my first gf when I was a mess of a man, If I could even be called a man then, and she was always super nice to me even though I was a an insecure beta faggot.
In retrospect she did lose sexual interest whenever I acted insecure around her, but she would not abuse me. Later in my life other women did.

>>19641053
>it didn't continue from him.

>>19641176
>Hemingway is his son
I mean Hemingway's own life.

>>19640761
If you wouldn't do this you're probably worried about being gay.

did he step in the fart tank?

>>19640124
Yes, at least with genre fiction writers

>>19640124
Chico mogs jfl @ this oldcel cuck

>>19641876
nah

>>19641870
>If literary works like those written by Gene Wolfe are the highest form of our art, are the rest of us simply hacks?
Yes, next question.
>That argument may prove that there is literary value to some fantasy and sf, but it doesn't really do anything for the genre as a whole.
What the fuck does that even mean, does he not understand that not all books are equal? Some works are just better than others and deserve to be recognized as such. Or maybe he doesn't understand what 'literary' means

>>19640761
the modern Anglo sphere is so prudish I s2g - guys in this generation would have been seeing each others cocks anytime they went to a public bath or took a communal shower, it would not have been *that* strange to ask to see a friend's cock.

>>19640124
Pretty much every single Mashima book is him seething over Dazai doing the same subject matter but better.

>>19643395
I didn't know dazai was a homo-facist

>>19641876
chico is bald and ugly af now kek

>>19643398
>he never read no long human and confessions of a golden mask back to back
yikes

>>19643398
Dazai must have been a slayer. Even in his 'boohoo i'm so pathetic' book the protag gets laid with ease.

>>19643407
He was a chad

>>19640124
>Have writers ever seethed about being mogged by more talented writers?
Watch Foucault/chomsky, especially the second half, especially after Foucault scores the second goal in the match.

If you slow it down you can see the moment his heart breaks.

>>19643531
CPTSDbros... We're gonna make it.

>>19643395
But dazai and Mashima seem somewhat opposate (in translation) Sex in mashima is like someone describing an animal being hit by a car but in slow machine for dazai its as mundane as sneezing

>>19640130
nabakov seethes endlessly about everyone

>>19640761
Fitzgerald wrote Gatsby as a masterpiece because he had experienced both sides of the woman question.

>>19641870
genre fiction writers are manchildren,
garcia marquez blew them out the fucking water with magical realism

>>19643531
>addicted to alcohol
>when it no longer worked he switched to morphine
>wrote his best book ever
>drown himself with his gf (for the second time)
>decades after people consider it the most popular book written by a japanese outside of japan
no writer will ever achieve this level of based
I like mishima but he's just a weak shadow compared to dazai
dazai didn't even tried and still surpassed all mishima's efforts to become something

>>19643692
I don't really see why it's a competition - they fulfilled different and complementary archetypes. Mishima was the diligent school boy prodigy, prolific and highly celebrated but incapable of "truly living" in a real uninhibited way. Dazai was the handsome and temperamental rogue, more stark and blunt in his writing style, possessing an innate nonchalance but completely alienated from everyone nonetheless. They go well together and their rivalry serves to highlight each author's strengths in its own way.

Camus vs Sartre is a funny one

>>19640124
Nope, I seethe about people like EL James being more famous than me but if someone earned that it's fine.

>>19640124
what was the context there?

Based Hernanposter

>>19640124
It’s well known that Tolstoy was bitter about Shakespeare being more popular than him.

>>19643598
>few throwaway remarks
>seething

>>19644680
same thing with McCarthy; everybody takes one passing remark and blows it out of proportion without ever trying to understand the actual point the author was trying to make

https://youtu.be/hksSZ-kxsPQ

Projecting at its highest level

>>19640124
Philip Pullman and CS Lewis

>>19643604
what would those sides be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQdApeYOv-A

Vidal was pretty petty towards his contemporaries.