/lit/ - Literature

Yes, I brought an art school type girl over. She made fun of me because my parents were still together, broke a wine glass, asked why I didn’t have any book written by a woman, had sex with me and left. Never saw her again.

The girlfriends I’ve had appreciated my library, maybe mostly due to it’s size

I have books like The Strange Death of Europe and Libido Dominandi in there

>>19635081
This, for the most part. A surprisingly common tale.

They were more disgusted by the fact that I live in a one-room apartment with nothing but books, mismatched shelves, a bed, a chair and a table. This seemed unfair to me as they generally lived with four roommates in a trendy but overpriced, filthy, and shitty loft where they all smoked weed and invited guys over from Tinder all day between shifts at part time jobs that didn't cover the rent without parental subsidies. Also a surprising number of them kept very high energy dogs in very small cages or locked in small rooms.

Sleeping with women was the worst mistake I ever made. I only did it because I thought if I didn't have experience I wouldn't eventually find a wife. The more sexual experience I got, the more I disliked women.

Im marries to a woman who lovea to read. We fight for who owns the Le Goff we have.

>>19635069
i've only ever brought one woman to my apartment and she didn't make any remarks about my books at all. she liked my cassettes tho

>>19635121
>This seemed unfair to me as they generally lived with four roommates in a trendy but overpriced, filthy, and shitty loft
This is true. I live alone in a decent 1br, often get weird looks from women (aged 23-26) when I tell the I don’t have roommates. Odd.

>>19635122
you drunk? seek help

>>19635121
Thank you for sharing your coming out tale. Hopefully this will give other closeted men and boys the confidence to be themselves.

>>19635131
When you're 30 your value rockets.

>>19635069
Yeah, she was very interested in my bookshelf, she kept picking up books and asking me about them. I then preceded to giver her a summery of Industrial Society and its Future, which she seemed to find pretty interesting. We did not have sex.

>>19635183
Greatest lie ever parroted on this website

>>19635190
Well I mean you need a house still and to live by yourself. Obv when you grow older you become more capable so.

>>19635121
>>19635131
You sound like bitter loners. High incel energy coming from these posts, no wonder girls don’t like you.

>>19635190
>>19635200
The value gained is you're not a manchild so if you are still then no value gained.

>>19635201
>today i will call people on /lit/ incels
>that'll show them
You're not better than anyone in here.

>>19635186
>Another anon talks himself out of pussy

You had her round your place, learn to shut the fuck up.

>>19635121
Updoot

>>19635201
>>19635175
simps and women threatened by anonymous strangers saying they don't much care for women

women's insecurity and simps' ingrained desire to seek women's approval by defending them are like clockwork

>>19635201
Weird looks doesn’t mean I don’t fuck them. It’s just an odd red flag for some younger women, especially in the post-grad years when their friend circles are still huge. I’m 27 now and regularly date college aged girls. It’s just different lifestyles.

>>19635211
I’m waiting for marriage

>>19635201

>>19635201
>socially based shaming
The only thing the entire female gender collectively has ever posted on 4chan in its history.

Replace the bottom left with picrel and I'd be out of there in less than two seconds.

>>19635069
My girlfriend likes that I'm into russian lit and she likes when I read to her. Other than that no other girl has ever commented on my bookshelf or talked to me about books.

>>19635231
Argued with a girl earlier. Out of nowhere she starts telling me she would never date me, and the kind of men she likes and how I am not like them. I didn't even ask, and had no interest in her.

They really do be like this

>>19635255
>They really do be like this
You have to be 18 to use this website btw

>>19635200
>Obv when you grow older you become more capable so
This isn't a given. If you're capable at 20 you have infinitely more value than a 30 year old.

>>19635255
>the kind of men she likes
so CHAD like every other girl on the planet

I ghost a lot of women. Usually after a date or two, after we have sex and I lose interest. Recently I went on a date with a girl who I actually liked and she did it to me. Really fucked me up. I hate women and will continue to ghost them.

>>19635265
Well given no extenuating circumstances but by definition you gain more experience than you had before just the absorption rate of experience must meet a certain threshhold for the "not-a-manchild-at-30" argument to work.

I keep all my reactionary literature in one section, then lock it up if I have any kind of company

But minus that, women usually think my public facing books are cool

>>19635239
I'd rearrange your shitoris regardless of race bby. We get along where it matters.

>>19635069
>go to his apartment
>Lolita and Infinite Jest is on his bookshelf

>>19635274
Yeah but factoring out the experience variable, your value is still trending downward between 18 and 30. Therefore it is possible to have an absorption rate that's so low, even though it's greater than 0, that you have less value you at 30 than at 18.

>>19635272
Hypocrite
>haha take that, stupid woman
>wtf nooo you can't do this to me

>>19635278
>go to apartment
>Lolita on nightstand next to bed
>he’s clearly reading it
>check his goodreads
>had read Lolita 15 times

>>19635282
Male value trends up over time, women’s trends down. The trade off is your value trends up primarily with women your own age, and the single women once you reach late 20s are usually single for a reason.

>>19635288
Thanks for deducing the point of my post. You’re a sharp reader.

>>19635210
>>19635219
>>19635221
>>19635231
>>19635236
1. Not having any roommates signals your not a friendly person. Women are very social creatures and don’t like to hang around disagreeable people.
2. No pets means you are not a very warm person. Even something as simple as a fucking goldfish signals you are capable of caring for something other than yourself
3. Only having books in your room is a red flag. It signals you’re an insufferable know-it all. You probably have a subtle condescending tone to your voice when speaking, stemming from your unwarranted sense of superiority.
People can tell when you are talking down to them.
Women are very aware of social signals and the way you live signals you’re very unpleasant individuals.

>>19635290
>and the single women once you reach late 20s are usually single for a reason.
This is the worst part to me. If I get to that point and I’m still single I’ll probably just have to give up.

>>19635290
See >>19635190

>>19635298
>signals your not
Stopped reading there. Learn English before spouting your braindead nonsense.

>>19635282
What value does a male have more at at 18 than 30? I mean if you're a bottom sure but in terms of women you just have more value at 30.

>Jordan Peterson book.
Yup. Red flag.

>>19635298
Jesus nigga this is pathetic, just b yourself xd, if a girl doesn’t wanna talk to me because I don’t have a roommate that’s kinda cringe senpai

>>19635069
>>19635081
>>19635121
Oh man, this type of girls really exist? I thought they were an invention of American tv shows and not so many girls were that slutty. I’m terrified, imagine marry a girl like that

>>19635313
He’s an underaged b& coping that girls his age are going for older guys.

>>19635069
I have Lolita rather visible in my room, and it works well as a reverse-woman filter. If they walk in and make a derogatory comment, I know they're trash. If they comment on it as a novel or otherwise have an open mind about it, I know the head on their shoulder isn't at least totally empty. Beating them at their own game.
>>19635254
My gut reaction was to say "she's a keeper", but I had a very similar girlfriend and she was definitely not a keeper. Still sounds pretty good, given her competition. Happy for you, anon.
>>19635298
Totally right, this is exactly how a woman's mind operates when evaluating a potential dating partner. They rely almost completely on leaps of extrapolation, stereotypes, and a focus on the implications of what you say moreso than the actual content.

>>19635313
Virility

>>19635323
Where are you from brother

>>19635081
All that and you still had sex with her. Reevaluate your life choices.

>>19635336
Why wouldn't he?

>>19635335
Latin America

>>19635341
Because it's kinda gross to have casual sex anon.

>S-stacy you’re s-supposed to pick me, I’m more virile!
t. crackly voiced teenager whose balls haven’t dropped yet

>>19635327
>I have Lolita rather visible in my room, and it works well as a reverse-woman filter. If they walk in and make a derogatory comment, I know they're trash. If they comment on it as a novel or otherwise have an open mind about it, I know the head on their shoulder isn't at least totally empty.
What if I walk in and make a derogatory comment not in a feminist way but in a I hate Nabokov he is a shit writer and I read more than you way

>>19635328
You have virility your whole life. You're a man. Sometime after 40 it can be hard but if you're 30 and not virile it has nothing to do w age.

>>19635343
Are women there just not as slutty or did you just assume they weren't. I've met so many women(unfortunately dated one) who admit to having men they resent and find unattractive for whatever reason. It's really fucking strange.
Just wait for a woman who doesn't do this type of stuff, I promise dealing with such ladies in any capacity leads to nothing but agony.

>>19635344
Lol weenie

>>19635354
*Having sex

>>19635290
Priors, you're all forgetting that it's based on the priors. The initial statement is that an man, full stop, becomes more valuable over time TO WOMEN due to female preferences plus any accrued value over time. It states that such a specimen pictured (myself, unfortunately) holds a higher status holds a higher status with cunts and bitches because his perceived position is higher even though one pictured may be recently unemployed from a gas station, have predilections towards men, and is clearly compensating for multiple issues in spite of his worthless degree and multitude of skills that in no way equate to being a good person. That is to say, this piteous being, is worth more to women than than your under 25 asses for no reason other than he has lived longer and undergone certain alchemical processes that make him attractive in spite of any reality him or yit may perceive.

>>19635353
There's only 10 years between 30 and 40, and 20 between 20 and 40. More peak years remaining = more value

>>19635341
Because that person sounds awful. Idk how you can force your cock into a chick you don't like. Animal behavior.

>>19635357
You're the weenie

>>19635362
what the fuck are you saying

>>19635323
You're right in that not so many are but there are still enough of them for anyone seeking out such experiences to be able to have them.

>>19635362
Man, pull yourself together.

>>19635352
Then my pants are off before the sentence is finished. That counts as making comments about it as a novel and piece of art in and of itself, rather than just a superificial "oh isn't that about a pedophile or something? You read stuff like that? Gross".

>>19635362
kek

>>19635370
Very simply: I smell a woman, my penis gets hard, I stick it in one of her holes, and then I coom

>>19635375
He's saying women are attracted to older guys.

>>19635368
You can produce kids until you're dead you just have a higher chance of twins and ig autism. In any sense the point of having a kid is to take care of them. Nobody values 20 years of no house just for 20 years of kids. Now they can value the relationship but for you must be at least 18 to post here.

>>19635391
Yeah I guess if she was hot enough and in my younger days I could have but it's still animal behavior and you shouldn't brag about it. You basically got raped if you fuck a chick you aren't into.

>>19635362
BASED

>>19635069
I don't care. I'll probably crack a joke about literally whatever she finds in my apartment and treat it like a non-issue, because ultimately it is. Because I'm a man, she will probably follow my lead. Because I'm funny, she'll probably laugh. Because she laughs, I'll probably end up dicking her down. It's really not that complex.

>>19635396
If you're 20 and have a house you have more value than a 30 year old with a house

>>19635375
If you're under 25, you're a shit version of yourself, men accrue value living past that point and women recognize it once they stop being total shit, and that unflattering photo will wet the panties of the kind of women y'all (I am appalachian and this dialect is my own, fuck the internet) would be happy with. Uglier and more autistic men than me get hit on more, just be genuine, not necessarily yourself.

>>19635327
She most certainly is a keeper. She's resonsible, intelligent, dedicated, hard working, strong, and cute as hell. She's much more virtuous and materially successful than me; if I didn't eat pussy like a pro there's no way she'd keep me around. Inshalla I will marry her.
>>19635370
Cuz she's cute. Biology is biology and some of us have strong sex drives. Sex with someone hot who has a terrible personality is better than no sex for 6+ months

>>19635399
Seek therapy, you have some sort of victim complex or trauma issue

>>19635408
You think you can raise a kid at 20 cf to yourself at 30 if you bought a house at 20?
You can try to play word games all you want but fundamentally value cannot be understood in terms of "youth" unless you're a bottom.

>>19635354
No, they are not as slutty as white girls ,even when is changing a little bit (mostly in dressing). At least where I live, a big city but composed mostly of rural migrants that bring with them their sexual morality. It’s a combination of the girls being more close with their parents and them having a more control over kids, an older age of leaving alone and a big number of people that don’t get college education (they marry very young and have kids almost immediately). Here does not exist the culture of living in college campuses so people don’t risk ruining their reputation in the same city where they lived their entire life. And the sexual life here is very much sided to the dating rather than the casual, in part of the boys expected level commitment. Still some girls are leveled as sluts but they have like five (and a most of them coming from relationships) bodies rather then the 10+ American sluts have.

>>19635419
I'm 22, own a condo and I can definitely raise a kid

>>19635069
>Betekenis Geve* Aan Het Leven
I'm glad she dodged that bullet. I to, if I were a woman, would reject any man who reads in D*tch

>>19635408
this but with 12 year olds. a 12yo can become a 20yo, but a 20yo will never become a 12yo

>>19635370
>absolutely animal behavior

>>19635427
Not as well when you're 30 and you'll realize what I mean in 3 years at least but by 30 you'll get the full scope.

>>19635448
Not sure if you're meming but I'm currently working on a theory that male children could be trained to be mature enough to enter adulthood at 13

>>19635455
My brother is 10 years older than me and I'm better at raising his daughter than he is

>>19635069
if they have time to look at your bookshelf you are doing it wrong

>>19635069
God I fucking hate women

>>19635081
>had sex with me and left. Never saw her again.
Wish I could find girls like this

>>19635459
Are you your brother? I might be talking to a wall here but this is controlling for other variables and saying you at 30 have higher value than you at 18.

>>19635081
> She made fun of me because my parents were still together
I want Am*ricans to be nuked

>>19635298
Nobody cares about your made up rules of pussy appeasement.

>>19635383
No.

>>19635390
>>19635402
You get it. Here's my female friend y'all wish ye had that is utterly uninterested in normal folk and fucking. You get that by being cautiously forward and showing interest in things you are interested in until you snag some cunt that is exactly like you. I did it in my teens and that's how fucking impossible it is overall, especially if you don't know how to be honest. Obviously I didn't open with having an empty circle of seats around me on the back of the school bus with all the other misfits and assholes and start talking about Zelda and a joke about shoving a pillar candle up my ass. Wait, I did.

I ran the numbers and it's like a .005 percent chance, statistically significant.

>>19635473
God I fucking hate scrotes

>>19635459
>merrypipe.jpg

>>19635508
That's a man (male)

>>19635393
Ye ok, thanks.
>>19635411
Idk where you're living. But most 25+ year olds
>dont have their own real estate
>dont really have that much accrued wealth
And in the case of /lit/ fags who come here for advice
>don't have the experience gained
So no, the sad truth is that the average incel isn't more attractive (to the point where it matters), because he missed out on what makes older men attractive. Unless people magically learn how to talk to women even if they've been terminally online since 15.

>>19635508
I will say, I find most people vain and shallow and my reasons for success are drinking from sketchy streams, quite literally. If you don't care how some thing immediately looks and sounds, you make it further albeit waiting for the watery shite of your misdeed to come about. Sometimes it doesn't. Young people are dumb but some get it before they decide they're smarter than they were.

>>19635546
I live with my mother and could snag more prime bitches than most of ye merely because I'm older and don't give a fuck. They're all in worse conditions society subjected them to through their own hubris.

>>19635570
I have no idea what you're saying again. Are you saying you've fucked teens even while you lived with your mom? Most people in their teens fuck other teens while living with their mom, so I am not following. Were you a virgin in your teens or how is any of this relevant?

Even if they wake up, probably too hard to see through the hood

>>19635226
Based.

>>19635413
Book on how to eat pussy like a pro?

>>19635633
There's videos, why would you rely on a book?

>>19635581
I'm saying I could slide into a local university thing, be myself, and come home with a hole if holes interested me. I've disappointed more pussy that wanted to be slammed on the trunk of a busted miata before 25 who got nothing but good conversation instead than ye could ever imagine. Three, that's more than enough honestly. I got off on the let-down. You have to not gib fuck and still dae it, that's how all comes to an end ye expect. Ken ye me?

Here’s a summary of this thread for all you lurkers:
Underaged b& is mad girls his age go for older, gets his arguments dismantled by cool level headed guys with experience.

>>19635666
Not saying I haven't slammed in and on this but they don't overheat like the italian jobs or a classic british roadster for opportune roadside fucks as one intends in advance. This is a pussywain if'n yer favored and I t'were. No fat chicks.

>>19635489
You act like it’s an American phenomenon. But you’re actually just obsessed.

>>19635414
What the fuck does this even mean?

>>19635069
This is such a stupid fucking thread. God damn mods need to get off their lazy asses and nuke this shit already.

>girls were dating 25 year olds when I was 18
>turn 25
>still get 0 bitches
Explain this

>caring about the opinions of women
ngmi

If she wants to have sex with you, she will find a way to have sex with you. Your books won't change a thing

>>19635666
While I'm posting people I've known who have had more pussy than me (considering how little that matters), this biscuitheaded womanhating motherfucker can draw bitches playing music he spent his whole life trying to craft.
https://devingrubbs.bandcamp.com/

Just play guitar, but not like this. It's all a lie.

I want to impregnate virgin teens and then never see then again

>>19635081
>Never saw her again

That's because you just listed the entire life cycle of the art whore.

She simply... ceased to exist after all that.

>>19635746
You aren't cool enough lol
Probably also aren't creepy enough to go around looking for 18 year olds girls
I thought the same in highschool, why are so many 16byear old girls dating 20 year old guys
Then I turned 20 and realized I'd never ever want to pursue a 16 year old and those guys must have just been fucking creep losers

>>19635633
Books? She comes first, that one has gotten good reviews. Amateur porn is good too, especially ones that have shitty lighting and a tv show playing in the background.

If you want my advice as professional head giver here it is: Learn to read body language. If you can't do that, communicate, but not like a reddit gayboy. Ask stuff like do you like that, harder, softer, etc, try to at least sound sexy and confident. In regards to the actual mechanics of eating pussy, my advice would be to use the flat of your tounge and lap her clit with an amount of pressure she likes. Most girls I've had are into that. If she's not having fun with that method use the tip of your tongue and draw different shapes until you find one she likes. Also make sure to go at that shit for way longer than seems reasonable once you find a motion you know she likes. Most girls that compliment my head mention that their bfs did it for like five minutes before they whipped their dicks out. This is a tactical error. You gotta dine on that shit, really put your heart into it.

>>19635190
>>19635265
So true. I feel bad for people who squander their 20's after falling for this meme. It only gets harder when you get older bros. Start living, find a good girl (yes they exist) and set yourself up now.

>>19635069
For some reason whenever multiple women display their sex meat simultaneously it really makes me see how retarded sex meat is in the first place, and how insane women are for permitting themselves to be seen as sex meat.

Imagine if society were arranged so that the dominant theme of your life was people wanting to see the space between your ballbag and your asshole. The completely unremarkable stinky taint space you don't even think about. But you are raised since childhood to integrate showing your taint meat, wearing clothing that reveals your taint meat, cultural rituals revolve around your taint meat, your human relationships with other people revolve around their desire to smell and suck on your taint meat. You are so saturated in the purely external taint obsession of these deranged lunatics that you can't remember or understand a world where your taint is just a taint. Women are like that except their whole body is one giant taint. One big stinky bag of meat people want to lick and touch.

A woman has no choice to say "I am more than stinky fuck meat," because being sex meat is all she's ever known from the ground up. All her friendships with other women revolve around talking about men who want to touch her hole where the shit comes out, all her relationships with men are thinly veiled dances revolving around whether she feels like letting them touch her smelly holes. Centuries of feminism can't make them see themselves as anything more than an expression and vehicle of sex. When they try to say "I am a real person and not just sex" it is as one more dance step in the dance of alternately denying and bestowing the right to suck on their sweaty floppy skin parts.

I would hate to be a woman. My cock pisses and I shit but I know nobody cares about that so I can focus on other things.

>>19635069
only normalfags have sex. if you're a normalfag you shouldn't be posting, you're ruining the ambience of the board. I can hear your
>DUDE LMAO I HAD SEX LAST NIGHT YOU SEEN THAT NEW NETFLIX SHOW BRO YEAH BRO I FUCKED HER PUSSY WITH CUM AND SMEGMA AND LUBE AND THEN I FARTED EPIC STYLE
obnoxious

>>19635190
Its only true if you are above and beyond peers in your age group
Spent your 20s taking care of yourself, so you look better than those that drank and smoke and ate like shit
Spent your 20s working hard and investing, so you have more financial worth than your peers
Spent your 20s travelling the world and making new experiences, so you aren't as boring as your peers
Very few people can go from nothing in 20s to slaying in their 30s without being in a position that they could have slayed in their 20s
Unless you are planning to retire early and coom in Thailand lol

>>19635201
your low value pussy isn't worth it anymore now go feed your cats

>>19635801
>find a good girl (yes they exist)
This entire thread is about people being incapable of this. Why do you think this is advice worth posting?
>>19635801
Ye, people just get more and more bitter. What made you a social outcast when you were younger tends to not just disappear. Some people just had a weird hobby and needed to meet the right group of people at college, sure. But after college, it truly is all downhill, in social terms.
>>19635825
>Spent your 20s travelling the world and making new experiences, so you aren't as boring as your peers
Normal fag advice #2. Normies really think travelling is just this magical fix for awkward body language and conversation skill. After all, everyone likes to travel, right! It's totally not just some marketing meme and travelling is actually boring as shit if you're a loner who can't strike up conversations with strangers.

>>19635768
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjlM8_KLwk
Basically the IRL version, behind the music.

>>19635886
also the kind of women ye can reasonably get.

>>19635298
Your mind is disgusting.

>>19635362
Jesus christ. Your value is very clearly diminishing. It probably was never very high to begin with either.

>>19635421
>No, they are not as slutty as white girls
Brincante. Don't take this bullshit seriously, anon.

>>19635091

Same. If you are good and academic looking, they'll see you as an intelelctual, not as a weirdo.

>>19635421
Wn onions de latinoamerica y todas las mujeres son putas ¿que te traes?
I bet you're a fucking chicano

>>19636037
De donde eres? A lo que me refiero no es a que sean castas y puras, si no a que son tan orgullosas que no se dejan coger por cualquiera o con poco esfuerzo (la mayoría)

A couple of months ago I had a ONS with a Kings College London literature student who called the collection of books in my room, mostly classic works of fiction, 'typical' a few minutes before we fucked. Right after she said this she told me how she enjoyed Twilight and Harry Potter. Her pussy was wet when I pulled her knickers off. She climaxed and I didn't.

>>19636017
What do you mean?

>>19635438
>hitler dood
>dude hitler lmao

>>19636055
Onions de México
>si no a que son tan orgullosas que no se dejan coger por cualquiera o con poco esfuerzo (la mayoría)
Digas mamadas pa, a menos que vivas en literalmente una comunidad indígena no veo como eso es verdad, yo vengo de un rancho y son la misma mierda las de la ciudad que las de allá

>>19635231
Based, the reverse of this is dick-measuring contest thou. Imagine arguing with steeples, lmao, all men should be removed from academia until they are 3 years pornfree.

>>19636037
>onions

>>19635298
That's a long way to say that you're acting abnormal and on average that is just not worth the time.

Wierdos get filtered from the genepool sucks to be them ig

>>19636229
S.oy

>>19636241
sO.y

Mostly Alistair Crowley books, so she'll know I'm freaky in bed.

>>19636218
En serio? Dirías que las mexicanas son igual de putas que las americanas? Yo onions mexicano también y la más puta que conozco perdió su virginidad a los 15 y se ha cogido a 4 weyes, algo conservador para estándares gringos (creo yo). Aun así este tipo de casos son la minoría, aunque gran cantidad de ellas actúen como putas (fotos, vestimenta), no se atreven a llevarlo más allá del perfomance

>>19636277
*onions. No quería poner onions

>>19635299
Women tend to date older men so maybe go for when in their mid 20s

>>19635278
Whatever bitch, I saw your copy of tampa.

>>19636277
>la más puta que conozco perdió su virginidad a los 15 y se ha cogido a 4 weyes,
Vives en una comunidad menonita o algo así? Obviamente hay dos o tres como tu mencionas que se cuidan, pero la mayoría de las viejas en la universidad ya tienen a 10 weyes encima, a veces cuando me pongo a platicar con las viejas dicen que perdieron su virginidad como a los 13 - 15
Si supieras cuantas veces le he preguntado a una vieja con cuantos machos ha estado y me ha respondido "uuuuuhhh ni llevo la cuenta papito"

>>19635081
>made fun of me because my parents were still together
What?

Had a first date and sex with this Black chick once who freaked out for a moment when she saw this book. Thinking I was a nazi or something. I explained it was fiction and not pro nazi. Ironic because my place is filled with "problematic" books or whatever. I fucked her once again after that. She had a really fat ass. Honestly no one I've ever dated was super into lit. So it never came up except that one time. My current gf is a Asian girl with a bigger ass and also doesn't care about all my evil books. If a woman tried to dictate what I read I would dump them. I used to date a goth chick and I dumped her for a number of reasons. One being she said Hamlet was poorly written. One girl on a first date also tried to impress me when I went back to her place because she had a copy of Loveceaft on her shelf lol. Which didn't impress me at all. Honestly it is best to date people with different interests.

>>19636317
Jajaja a la verga de donde eres? Onions del norte. También puede ser que sea joven, no ha habido mucho tiempo de que acumulen experiencia. Verga que miedo, espero que las de mi entorno no sean solo apariencia y no sean putas de verdad

>>19635069
Reverse image search tell me this image was taken off of a Maoist tranny Twitter page

>>19636343
Are you a jawless manlet? Why do you insist so much in race mixing?

>>19636352
Del sur pa
La neta no busques viejas en la universidad, esas ya tienen a varios weyes encima, un consejo
Hay dos o tres que valen la pena es cierto, conocí a algunas que tuvieron un solo novio un año y así, pero es muy raro y usualmente esas viejas no tienen ganas de juntarse con uno de su edad mientras estudian, además si no tienes lana ni te pelan

>>19635069
I don't bring women home

>>19636354
It’s a meme based on a political scandal in Thailand.

>>19636354
I would've thought Maoists would be all over Peterson due to his obsession with order and authority

>>19636393
I'm a bit over 6 feet and my chin is normal. I'm not ugly or handsome just boring looking. Tho kinda muscular from my work. The city I'm in does have a lot of Asians tho.

>>19635069

>>19636393
He’s trying to go for one from every part of the map, leave him be.

>>19635081
God i wish this was me

I'm a virgin and I'm still terrified of talking to women. I'm 26 and live with my mom. Pic related is what you'll find in my box of books

>>19636191
Oh shit Hitler dood
Wat nou?

Women didn't care about my 3 full bookshelves full of /lit/ memes. They cared about the rats or the fact that the apartment was 100 years old or "how does a 6'3 man sleep in a twin sized bed?"

>>19636970
You just hang your feet over the edge of the bed, it's actually pretty comfy

>>19636970
bruh the last room i rented had a twin mattress i had to sleep on it diagonally and like if i read on it my feet would hang off the end and put pressure on my knees, i think that's when i stopped reading as much

>>19636970
> the rats or the fact that the apartment was 100 years old or "how does a 6'3 man sleep in a twin sized bed?"
IKTF. I kinda hoped it gave off Frankenstein vibes but in reality it just makes you seem like a slob

>>19636990
yeah i used to live in a building that leaked from the ceiling every time it rained and the power went out a lot, i tried to cope by pretending it was like the fight club house, but the roommates who fucked always ended up moving out. if you care about getting laid you can't have water pouring down the wall next to your power strip.

>>19635081
Based

>>19635131
>often get weird looks from women (aged 23-26) when I tell the I don’t have roommates.
They're scared no one would hear them if you try to strangle them OP.

>>19635201
I have no respect for people who sleep around all the time, no matter what gender they belong to. Divorce rates are high for a reason.

>>19635419
Weren't people raising children at 16 back in the day?

>>19636970
>>19636981
based no bedframe ascetic tallfag

>>19636970
lmao im 6'2 and have a twin mattress on the floor. the most recent girl i brought over thought it was really weird. didn't even look at my books though

>>19636343
Lmao I've had to explain that book a couple of times.

>>19636990
I always thought that old apartment felt like an eccentric 1920s flat in somewhere like Paris, I decorated it with tons of different art and the walls were covered in books and frames and cracks and I had interesting lighting and a variety of different styles of chairs. I miss that place. It had many faults, rats, old must, falling apart, the Bedroom was as small as a hallway, creepy stairway up. But I loved it so much. It was the first place I could really call my own.

>>19635069
Why would a Jordon Peterson devotee be pursuing mindless casual sex?

>>19635201

That guy could fill out his apartment more but tinder sluts are really awful. They're not all nasty prostitutes but most are.

>>19635298

1. The odds of a roommate being a good friend isn't great and it's tedious having to deal with another body in an already small apartment. People have roommates to split rent not because they like them you fucking idiot

2. Lots of people don't own pets

3. I have a small number of books I keep hidden away and mostly read ebooks because I am perfectly aware of how ugly and low minded American culture is becoming and the pragmatic need to conform to it

Eat shit you dumb zoomer bitch

>>19636328
Just Amerifags thins
>>19635785
Lmao

>>19636237

IQ 100 normies are medium entropy dude. They're frankly ugly, stupid, they get sick all the time, and only survive by threatening others with sheer numbers. And the IQ 85 "people" you worship are high entropy, have weird fucking faces and heart problems. All the scum you worship is holding the species back from further evolving. In the before times the species emerged from more evolved humans like me outbreeding and butchering subhumans like you. American culture bends over backwards being nice to shitty people

>>19635298
Sadly you're ngmi

>>19635175

Do you think he's lying?

>>19635353

Your sperm gets weirder as.your DNA unwinds with age. You shouldn't be having kids after like 45 unless you want them to be weird and sickly. Old father's may also depress the IQ of their offspring. But the science is unclear, at best it greatly increases the odds of serious genetic disorders. Plus being an old father can suck, and the likelihood of dying before your kids are financially independent increases over time.

>>19635801
>(yes they exist)
Not for me.

>>19635236
Unbelievably based and accurate thread

>>19635269
Get over it you fucking bitch. It's the way it is.

I have never had a postitive experence with a woman in my entire life. My mother never even breast fed me. I simply don't get along with this species.

For casual relationships I always go to theirs they never come to mine so never had that issue

>>19637251
This. Just pretend you are voluntarily homeless.

>>19635121
Reality is often the worst my friend, but there are some good girls out there keep seeking.

>>19635413
>>19635793
>eat pussy like a pro
>head giver
I bet you say shit like 'nah bro its good my gf got ran through by a ton of dudes because now shes better at sex', fucking faggot lmao

>>19635231
being misogynist online won't make your mom love you anon

>>19635069
what's wrong?

>>19635269

If you're ugly and sickly just accept that it's rougher out there for you. And it should be, for the health of the species

But think of how petty and stupid normgroids are. And how bland and unremarkable their appearance is. I think thoughtful and sensitive men have it harder in contemporary, especially American society because normgroids often label positive qualities as "weird" and are ridiculously sensitive to open displays of superiority, especially mental superiority since it runs deeper and is easier to doubt. The weak have their own bag of little tricks to offset the natural powers of the strong. That's the story of the tribe and of society lmao

Just keep in mind how shitty most people really are, and how easy it is for visibly pathological people to reproduce as seen in the swarming underclass in modern society. It would be sad for somebody to spoil their potential, and for genuinely good.human qualities to fail to pass on

>>19635231
Had this happen. Easiest way I disarmed this perceived nuke is to firmly tell her,
>"I'm not with her for sex, so keeping an independent factor in the relationship from me won't affect my happiness in the slightest, so go ahead."

>>19635272
Karma

>>19635298
>unwarranted

>>19637051
>ascetic
>he doesn't sleep on the floor

>>19636927
Pity (you)

>>19635308
Women don't give a shit about English. You need to learn a different language

>>19635127
cassettes are fuckin BASed

>>19637338
t. Incel

>>19635298
lol nice bait Casanova

>>19635414
basically what a woman would say, therapists are woke faggots

i hope all you dudes understand that not worrying about getting pussy and instead putting your time and energy into something more productive is so much more rewarding. some replies on here reek of anxiety that's a result of artificial expectations and values pushed onto vulnerable men without their consent or even awareness. listen to all the mgtow memes and go lose weight, gain muscle, eat clean and continue to read. take it to the next level and abstain from casual sex. a quality woman will eventually enter your life if you make it's focus not to fuck, but to LIVE AS A MAN. wagmi.

>>19635357
He got (You) there >>19635372.

>>19637620
You're bragging on an anonymous imageboard about how good you are at licking up the leftover cum from ran through pussy. It doesn't get lower on the sexual hierarchy than that

>>19637338
Slept with more people than my current gf. I do say shit like that, but your basedboy pic is innacurate. I'm tall and quite wiry, it's all the cardio from fucking your mom.

>>19637734
It's the lovecraftian std concoction you've picked up from tonguing the petri dish clean. Someone has to marry the whores though so thanks for taking one for the team

>>19635362
Savinelli > Peterson.
I'm about to head out to smoke my meer. I'm going to get some good color on it this holiday season.

>>19635201
>High incel energy coming from these posts, no wonder girls don’t like you.
Keep seeething peeminist scum
the funny thing is that the more you hate wymyn the more success with them you have

>>19635262
I believe he was aping nigger-speak for a casual, lightening effect. I wouldn't say that it indicates someone being a child.

Not at all. Ive never had a girl ise my tablet for anything but youtube and nosing at my facebook when im taking a piss.

>>19635236
>women typically deal in black and whites
might as well just write "i never talk to women"

>>19637398
>normgroids often label positive qualities as "weird"
the truth of your message is in its response

>>19637719
>>19637758
Must have struck a nerve with the incel comment for you to immediately bring up the sexual hierarchy. Thank god you can't get laid though. I pity the woman who would have to put up with the 5 minute dry-dick hatefuck if you could. Keep holding out for your virginal tradcath gf anon. You'll get her one day, and then you'll lose her to a motherfucker like me.

Norwegian Wood has got me laid no less than 3 times

>>19637829
you have no power here you dumb nigger

>>19636328
It's cope. I think latest stats say like 17% percent of people have parents who are still married meaning the vast majority of Americans either grew up with a broken family or their family broke as they entered adulthood. It's disgraceful

>>19637795
Okay woman

>>19637842
Pot, meet kettle. We're both just shouting into the void, our childish attempts to make each other feel bad will be quickly forgotten. The thread will 404 and no one will ever look at it again. That being said, using lotr quotes in an argument is a virgin move. And your the nigger and I fucked your mom.

>>19635298
This shows how easy it is to fake it all because they're incredibly shallow.

>unwarranted
Cope of someone both is inferior and knows it. Might as well have said she's intimidated.

>>19635298
Now this is based

>>19637834
The mythical murakami protagonist in the flesh

>>19637859
not true, i've been here for enough years to remember when casual misogynyposting outside of a board like /r9k/ provoked a "go back to /r9k/" response or similar from 75% of respondents, now misogyny is the absolute norm on every board and incel accusations are nakedly obvious cope from normalfag tourists to just about everybody on the site

i'm not arguing with you, i'm informing you that, for whatever it's worth, you are on the loser side of this culture war if you think anyone gives a shit about being called an incel for misogyny posts on 4chan. misogyny simply won, because it's basically correct.

>>19637874
……………..
>……………
……………..
>……………
……………..
>……………

>>19635345
This old nigga is seething lmao

>>19637829
The incel comment is bringing up sexual hierarchy you moron.
>Keep holding out for your virginal tradcath gf anon.
You unironically have a worse view of womens body counts than incels. 30% of women are virgins or have had one sexual partner before marriage, but you have to cope and pretend that everyone is like your 99% percentile count whore gf. Try not being a pussywhipped fag if you want to get a good one
>>19637859
>Dude le nothing even matters bro
You're going to keep thinking about this long after this thread 404s. Please learn some self respect for your own sake

>>19635455
Dude you’re coping

>>19637889
>people better than me are so annoying, ugh, they really stress me out and make me feel small

>>19637900
>Dude, you’re managing alright!
>Dude, you’re doing well!
The fuck is this idiot meme? Stop using it.

>>19635793
I gave a woman oral and threw up 3 minutes later. How anyone can find those monster mouths sexually exciting is beyond me. Even the placement of pubic hair on a woman is enough to make me disheartened and disgusted. If I could I would just spend all day kissing their feet but good luck finding one with good feet. The sexual marketplace is fucked.

/spoiler/ i do enjoy cuddles tho /endspoiler/

>>19637916
Seethe lmao you know what it means and it’s here to stay

>>19637887
>Myopic worldview caused by being on 4channel for 8 hours a day.

>>19635069

No, that's retarded, and the only people that think that's possible have never spoken to a woman

>>19635069
>woman
>your apartment
>bookshelf
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>>19637887
That's grand. Interestingly this shift is byproduct of you guys losing the real, actual culture war. Mysognists have been relegated to niche platforms like 4chan as you people no longer have the cultural capital you once did. I mean look at the traffic to reddit or twitter compared to 4chan, if you want a digital example. It is a shame that the quality of lit got destroyed, but I'm happy to have the real life ideological victory in exchange.
>>19637893
No? I respect women lol. They can remain virgins that's great. You're making a cute little strawman of me which is great for your arguement but it's in no way reflective of who I am as a person. You're also the most retarded person alive if you think anything from 4chan is thought provoking enough to stay in my head for longer than a day or two. Seriously, get a grip man. Maybe you think about 4chan threads for weeks, but I have a life to attend to outside of shitposting about how great I am at eating pussy.

>>19637941
Like niggers being disgusting subhumans.

>>19635069
A girl invited to my party got mad when she saw Maps of Meaning. She asked me if I like Jordan Peterson, I said yes and asked her if that's a problem. She actually apologized for being rude and we banged later

>>19637941

>>19636393
Race mixing is only bad for women to do as they are the bottleneck of genetics. A white womb that gives birth to a black child is done. But a white penis can cum in many wombs as it likes and leave Scott free.

>>19637928
>is footfag
>complains about the sexual marketplace being fucked

>>19637847
>latest stats say like 17% percent of people have parents who are still married
give me a fucking break. It's normal be from a broken home in the states. How can a culture be this backwards?

>>19637874
This is true lol but it’s because millennials/Zoomers can read the subtle meanings in a text conversation

>>19637941
Wish someone gave Nietzsche the memo

>>19635272
wtf I hate men now

>>19637989
I mean as retarded as his takes are he's a great stylist. You don't have to take him seriously to have fun with his books

>>19637928
The sex market is only fucked if you have standards. I took the black pill and found a girl who was willing to be with me but she also wants an open relationship. We’re dating and she says she wants to wait before inviting another and I can do the same(I can’t though as I’m lucky to have her)

>>19638012
Brother, I’ve done the whole cuckolding thing before.... when post nut clarity hits you’ll wanna kill yourself. I know because I have felt that way after it was done.. get a teen gf, easy in France.

>>19635069
yes. i had a black girlfriend for a while. first time she came over, she pored over my shelves for ages, before complaining that nearly all my books were by white men
i pointed out the shelves full of books by asian and south american writers, and women
but because she couldn't specifically find many books by black people she was annoyed
i stuck with her for a while though. she was as crazy as fuck, but they're the best ones.

>>19637986
it's normal to be*
Pardon the fuckup, i'm a mongol.

I only read patrician tier philosophy, fiction, poetry and pop sci.

>>19635190
The new generation of zoomers are sexually shamed, pathetic and weak, and this turns into becoming more feminine.

This was also observed in nature when a more dominant species arrived, the original male tribe started grooming themselves more, acting more calm. Its only nature doing its thing. Zoomers simply cannot compete against 30yo and greater due a gigantic disparity of manhood between the two generations.

>>19638016
>Brother, I’ve done the whole cuckolding thing before.... when post nut clarity hits you’ll wanna kill yourself.

I had to learn this the hard way. My roommate in college fucked my girlfriend while I jerked off on the bed across from them. I came way before him, had my post-nut clarity, then just wanted to shoot myself for in the head for 15 minutes while he grunted and huffed and finally came inside her. I just hated them both and myself until I got my hornyness levels back up way later. If I ever did it again I'd just edge until he finished, then go in her after him to finish too.

>>19637952
Just to further my argument, at this point I've actually spent more more re-reading my own posts and reflecting on how based I am than I have reading yours.

>>19638016
>>19638038
You need to approach it with the right mindset, can't speak for those into humiliation but I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ years and it's only strengthened my relationship. Personally, it's intoxicating to have my wife confess that she loves me immediately after someone else has done their utmost to please her, nothing proves she's mine as much as leaving some poor kid naked and vulnerable, set aside like a toy after the act.

This has been a thing long before the internet, and long before electricity. People are capable of individual thought and reason, you'll only look like a psudointellectual by making sweeping generalizations to prove you're right.

Overexposure to porn has definitely pushed this into the mainstream but everyone interested would have been interested regardless. If you believe in environmental conditioning that much, rejoice - fostering societal weakness is allowing for the strong to stand out even more.

>>19637952
>but I have a life to attend to outside of shitposting
Yet you choose to spend your time engaged in an hours long argument on le incel imageboard. Definitely dont seethe about this conversation later. Don't think about how your gf has had a football team's worth of dicks in her. She could have remained a virgin but she just happened to get ran through, right? That's her choice and you respect that
>>19638047
>I'm coming back to the conversation 40 minutes later to remind you that I'm absolutely not thinking about it at all, ok??
Lmao

>>19638053

>>19638057
If replies are proof of seethe, are you not seething equally hard? Pot, kettle, etc. I'm just enjoying arguing with a real life incel it's somewhat of a novelty.

>>19638053
>This has been a thing long before the internet, and long before electricity. People are capable of individual thought and reason, you'll only look like a psudointellectual by making sweeping generalizations to prove you're right.
The only reason I believe you is because I know the infamous cuck Heidegger let his doctor impregnate his wife because he loved being in that moment.

>>19637928
Is that pic yours anon?

>>19637928
Ayyy

>>19635457
>Not sure if you're meming but I'm currently working on a theory
Shit like this always makes me kek

>>19638119
Reckon they phoned up Tolstoy for that blurb lmao

>>19638017
Had this happen. I just construct a joke about how she came her to get white dick so stop complaining and show her my copy of Imaro.

>>19636343
>I used to date a goth chick and I dumped her for a number of reasons. One being she said Hamlet was poorly written.
Girls like this seem to exist solely for the reason to remind you that 49% of the population is dumber than average.

>>19636927
Going for a wizard run I see. Good luck anon.

>>19636927
surely you could find some butt ugly nerd to root anon or do you not want to

>>19637056
I live like this too, is it a turn off?

>>19637886
Kek

>>19638172
If they make it into your room they will most likely fuck you no matter what anon. I've got to say though, I hate that the 'mattress on the floor' trope is only ever applied to men. Women unashamedly live like pigs and I can't tell you how many women's bedrooms I've been in that have a mattress on the floor, clothes strewn about the place like a bomb went off.

>>19638179
I have never seen a bathroom as a bad as a woman's bathroom.

>>19638179
>>19638183
Eh it really shouldn’t bother you, 64% of women under the age of 28 work 40-60 hour work weeks to make up the wages they don’t receive due to the gender gap. So if they can’t have time to clean I don’t blame them we’re all in this clown world together.

>>19638199
I would only take this bait if it were butters posting it.

>>19638208
>Based on this estimate, it would take an extra 42 days of work for women to earn what men did in 2020.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/25/gender-pay-gap-facts/%3famp=1

I don’t like it either but not every leftist opinion is without weight.

>>19638199
Good bait, but the women working 60 hour weeks don't have time to fuck a loser like me

>>19638199
>>19638216
Everyone talks about the gender pay gap, but no one talks about the sexual orientation pay gap...

>>19638216
You fucking idiot, the reason for the pay gap is:
>Men work more labour intensive and riskier jobs
>Women get pregnant and take leave so they get less experience, making it harder to get promoted

>>19638216
Still not as good as butters, keep at it though.

so it's this easy to bait /lit/ huh

>>19638245
I feel like a big elephant in the room with respect to gender discourse relates to the relative success of lesbians in typically male fields. How many female athletes are lesbians? Anecdotally, a lot of the successful female doctors I know are lesbians. Surely this suggests there is something inherently 'masculine' about these activities, or at the very least, that there is a correlation between a woman's heterosexuality and her lack of desire / ability to excel in these fields.

>>19638245
Based high performance fags

>>19635069
>woman you brought to your apartment
No.
>>19635805
This.

>>19635069
Yes, I have received various compliments about my books but only for politeness reasons I think. My art nouveau paintings on the other hand are a pussy magnet.

>>19635805
/lit/ is a normie board populated by disaffected English majors who get pussy from time to time but will nonetheless never know happiness due to deep and unresolvable psychic wounds that leave them emotionally if not literally impotent. If you are a virgin then /r9k/ is where you belong.

>>19638284
I'm just scared of sex, and having a relationship

>>19635336
>>19635344
>>19635370
Lmao, how can you be this much of a beta loser?

>>19638294
Casual sex is a sin, and promotes the deconstruction of society

>>19635069
when I was still womanizing (up to say 2 years ago) I'd bring the ladies home and sit them on the couch facing the bookshelf where I had my quantitative stuff at eye level. women are intimidated by math... even the smart ones.

>>19638295
Society is a spook.

>>19638053
quite literally cucked and bluepilled

>>19638289
stop being scared retard, do you need a kick in the balls? yolo, literally, noone cares what you do as long as it's within the law

>>19638301
Alright, you're right. The truth is that I just feel disgusted by whores and don't want to have sex with them, and don't think others should either. I don't want to see their self-destructive lifestyles supported.

I was raised by a families of degenerates in a caravan park who blew their money on alcohol and gambling. I don't think it's fair that these whores can stroll through life while the rest of us just struggle to stay alive.

>>19638342
How often do you have gay thoughts? How often do you masturbate to gay toes of porn?

>>19638249
I thought white women weren’t having children? Which is it?

>>19635069
My book collection has literally turned some women on. Especially my collection of books on serial killers, I kid you not. My other books on Islamic extremism and the Columbine school massacre have been conversation starters when they've been around my place.
Actually, discussing and lending books to girls has frequently led to success for me with women. Anything dark/twisted seems to pique their interest. The last girl's number I got at random was when I was reading Sapiens on a train. She told me she'd read the follow-up book, and we got chatting.

>>19638249
Well that’s not really fair as women have to juggle both a homelife and a job where men can just do whatever

>>19638370
I don't have gay thoughts and only masturbate to vanilla romance doujins

>>19638402
You are now imaging blowing a black male

>>19638460
Why does it always turn into raceplay shit

>>19635308
Grammar Nazis don't care about the english language or good writing at all, you mostly seem to be obsessive-compulsives who froth at the mouth over petty, anal-retentive rules.

>>19638245
How tf is there a $400 gap between male-female marriages and female-male marriages

>>19635298
Women will like what I tell them to like.

>>19637886
If only you knew...

>>19638531
Probably the scaling for households and different sample data. Or some statistical anomaly.

>>19638033
>millennials
>more dominant species
Kek

>>19637698
I've been focusing on myself for the past few years and not caring about women. However I have a peculiar personality in that I'm satisfied and fulfilled just reading, lifting, listening to music and going for walks. I have no friends and don't care for most things other people consider to be important.
Recently I created a tinder account and realized I didn't even understand the lingo these women use in their "bios". The whole endeavor was depressing.
The extent of my experience with women comes from fucking escorts. I hate women and at this point I wish some would hit on me just so I could reject them in the most humiliating ways possible.

ghosted a girl after seeing rupi kaur in her appartment

yes i know it's immoral

>Apartment
I own a house.
>Bringing whores back.
Nah, there's plenty of pussy at my house. I just can't get any tail. :^)

>>19638016
>get a teen gf, easy in France.
This is a fucking lie

>>19638861
Cats have turned white men into faggots. Don’t bother responding with some seething cope, you’re just having your parasites speak for you.

>>19638869
I'm far from a homosexual. I simply refuse to engage in licentious behavior. If that makes me a faggot, so be it.

>>19635069
What are books that are a warning sign in a girl's apartment?

>>19638886
The Vagina Monologues

>>19638876
Get a dog you fucking retard and eat more red meat. When the power goes out your faggot ways won’t save you and that animal will conspire with it’s I’ll to eat you when it gets the chance

>>19638934
I have a generator so the lights will never go out. :^)

>>19638869
>>19638934

>>19635121
>by the fact that I live in a one-room apartment with nothing but books, mismatched shelves, a bed, a chair and a table
GOD I WOULD RIDE YOU

>dirty rooms
>parental subsidy fashion AS A LIFESTYLE
>taking pity money for rent and still buying weed
>THAT IS FUCKING ANIMAL ABUSE
disgust. would not fuck. would take their dogs on a walk then clean until telling them "yeah yeah in a bit" until they kicked me out. probably wouldn't even go out of my way to look sexy while cleaning.

>>19635069
she was "turned on" if you will by how extensive it was, but I doubt she knew any of them besides, perhaps, the Bible

>>19638474
You know exactly why they do this, Anon

>>19638376
>Anything dark/twisted seems to pique their interest.
>I was reading Sapiens on a train
My god... that's the most dark and twisted book of them all

>>19638382
The thing that’s not fair is women working

>>19635069
>apartment

lol at americans

>>19635804
It's a crime no one replied to this, as it's one of the most intelligent posts ITT. Typical 4chan, wasting threads talking about bullshit and arguing with anonymous people that made a baseless and unevidenced insult toward them.

>>19639501
You have a lot of reading ahead of you to find put what’s not fair.

>>19640126
If you think that's an intelligent statement you should try reading books. The results might surprise you!!

>>19636343
>Nigress thought Bolaño was a nazi

figures, but still funny nonetheless.