/lit/ - Literature

what does /lit/ think about /ortho/?

>>19626358
>Chinese tradition
I thought Guenon argued that the Chinese didn’t have a “tradition”? Something about it being completely exoteric

>>19626358
the greatest larpers of all time

>>19626376
I recall him saying that it was different from the west and that it is the only "race" based tradition

>>19626438
How so?

>>19626358
>calling yourself "seraphim rose"
Ortho larping is the queerist shit

>>19626438
If you move to the Middle East and convert to Islam, you aren't really a LARPer anymore

One thing I cannot shake is the perennial notion that more than one religion is authentically directed towards divinity. There are so many that, ultimately, most peoples identification is arbitrary or cultural. The idea that choosing the wrong religion will condemn you to hell is very chilling to me. Surely hell is for rapists and murderers?

>>19626477
My philosophy is that every religion is correct.
>Anon, religions conflict
Go deeper.

It's amazing. Every thread on Seraphim Rose brings out the demons. Utterly astounding.

>>19626482
Interesting. Care to elaborate? Or at least share a book that holds to this opinion?

Fr. Seraphim is literally a genius desu. People need to listen to his lectures and read his books. He quite effectively assimilated his mind to that of the Church Fathers. I pray he be recognized as a saint in the coming years.

>>19626484
>Care to elaborate?
Sure. Religion, in my eyes, has a few reasons to exist, including establishing morality or having a political function. Those are fluff at the end of the day. The only real value in religion is in helping one remember one's place as a part of the universe, integrally connected with the rest of the universe. Through this function religion helps bring inner peace and meaning to people, as well as sense of perspective. And every religion I know of performs this role. Perhaps in the African savanna our ancestors had this realization and took it with them everywhere. Every so often we forget it and someone is born who reminds us of it.

>>19626483
There’s a definite trend. Ever since becoming a Christian in general, I’ve been surprising at the level of venomous hatred that so many people unleash against Christ Himself, and especially His mother, and the saints. There’s definitely something spiritually dark involved with the attitude.

>>19626483
Yes that's what happens when you venerate what you'd otherwise consider a pervert if not for his basedbooks

>>19626524
God has far more mercy and forgiveness towards sin that you ever will, and that’s what counts. I really hope you aren’t a Christian, because if you are you’ve really missed the point of parables like the prodigal son

>>19626524
The fact that an intestinal clot makes you think of anal penetration, IS A RESULT OF YOUR OWN PERVERSION AND CORRUPTION.
Christ saves, he saves anyone who allows him into their heart.

>>19626518
Thank you gentle anon. I hope that, in the end, all good people are saved.

>>19626509
>I want to collect his icoon and pray to him

*triggers demons*

p b u h

>>19626529
No I don't let other people evaluate "sins" for me to atone for by donating volitional energy to their volcano demon
>>19626537
I thought he was a member of the LGBTQ community of San Francisco? Perhaps I have him mistaken with some other vice-indulger who ran to church and became a thought leader for perverts on an internet pornography forum

>>19626571
Keep prattling. He spoke against his former vices.

>>19626583
Isn't that convenient. Are there any... healthier types... who turn to this system?

>>19626608
There are millions of Orthodox Christians.

>>19626649
There are millions of laypeople of any religion who give it minimal thought and merely observe weddings and funerals and the like, which they would do no matter what they were born into.

>>19626683
What's your fucking point?

>>19626692
Pearls before swine, anon

lel

>>19626692
What was your point? I just find the hedonist to moralizer pipeline among the more active types amusing and wouldn't consider such people good company. I could care less about the passive laity.

>>19626748
Leave these threads, you obsessed freak.

>>19626769
You sound a bit like a triggered demon yourself there

>>19626769
>collects icoons and kisses them
>calls others obsessed freak

how has Guenon anything to do with faith?

flee from me devil

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=54&v=UmQNA0HL1pw&feature=youtu.be

the end times are nearing upon us and you want to creep in ideas of the devil?

>>19626893
Is Schwab a Guenonchad?

>>19626748
>NOOO people CANNOT change
>YOU'RE the weird one for thinking people aren't strawmen you can stuff in perfect exact boxes forever
Should've touched grass while you still could

>>19626358

>>19626521
>I’ve been surprising at the level of venomous hatred that so many people unleash against Christ Himself, and especially His mother, and the saints.
Sure, because Christians dont dish out constant vitriol when you explain to them that Thor, or Donar, can genuinely help you remove demonic influence.

>>19627086
Are you implying I cannot change or be redeemed? Would it kill you to be coherent?

>>19626484
Read DBH’s “The Experience of God”

>>19626463
Monks choose a different name when they become a monk and name themselves after saints...

For me, it's Latvian Orthodoxy.

>>19626483
your stupidity is demonic

>>19627393
This, it's the hats.

>>19627685
t. demon

>>19627184
Did the new Marvel movie come out already??

I feel like it's not possible to be Orthodox as a westerner without LARPing.

>>19626361
Garbage and also heretical and serbian
So it couldn't be worse if it tried

>>19628037
Good for westerners not being able to submit to crypto Ishtar and "saints" worship.

>>19626446
Any idea where?

>>19626463
>queerist
Well...

>>19628222
i think 'east and west'

>>19626358
Yawn
So he figured imma go worship a literal Jew instead?

>>19626358

>Seraphim Rose

This nigger sounds like some anime character lmao

>>19628701
>muh joo
Yawn

Call no man "Father"

>>19628039
rent free you monkey

>>19628709
The entire thing reeks of fake. If the guy had lived in the age of internet he would have a channel with thousands of incel followers and patreon supporters, possibly even a TikTok for based orthodox clips

>>19628735
This. He did, in his day, go around visiting college campuses wearing his full costume. He seemed to worship his own aesthetics. Many such cases, sad!

>>19628709
>>19628735
>>19628749
When someone becomes a monk they take a new name based on a saint. He chose the name Seraphim, from Saint Seraphim of Sarov. His real name was Eugene Rose, so he is referred to as Seraphim (Rose) to distinguish him from Saint Seraphim of Sarov.

>>19628749
The dude was a priest and a monk, and if he was invited to a campus in this capacity, this is how he would appear, i.e. in the appropriate garb. I met an Orthodox priest at Starbucks a few months ago and I was shocked to see the dude into Starbucks wearing his black cassock and a wooden cross around his neck. The guy wasn’t a LARPer in the slightest, but that’s just the custom and practice. He was meeting me *as* a priest, and thus dressed accordingly. Ironically, you retards would be making fun of him too if he showed up in a t-shirt and jeans

>>19628782
There is no such thing *as* "priests" in that sense anymore, so yes, he was absolutely LARPing. Try reading and understanding the Bible sometime. If you were in the Body of Christ and indwelled with Holy Spirit then you yourself would be a priest no matter what your clothing is.

>>19628828
t. hasn’t read the Bible

>>19628849
>t. newfag
Exactly. To "t." a post without greentext is to apply it to yourself rather than those you are quoting.

>>19628828
You're going to go to the same place Martin Luther is in. (It's not Heaven).

>>19629028
Just wait until (You) answer for praying to anyone other than God.

>>19629141
I suppose people who have asked for help for their problems are going to Hell then?

Would an anon please post the essential orthodox reading list? I regrettably didn’t save it in the last ortho literature thread several weeks ago.

>>19629203
Yeah, read about E. 'Orthodox' explanation as to why they reject the robber council Ephesus II.

>>19629208
If Christ's body, the faithful, reject a council then it is not valid. Rome is naught but a tyrant. And now you reap what you have sown with your faggot-loving Popes who bow before pagan idols and make a mockery of you throughout the world. The fact that anyone takes your faggot church seriously today is a miracle of Satan.

>>19629361
Heretic.

>>19629416
Don't you have an LGBT parade to march in, faggot-lover? Ask your Pope whether anyone is a heretic and see what he says lol.

>>19626463
The dude was gay, unironically.

>>19629361
>The truth is whatever the masses say it is.

>>19629442
Councils require the consent of the faithful, yes.

>>19629458
meant to reply to >>19629444

>>19629442
>tempted by homosexual desires
>rejected them and lived in celibacy
what is your problem exactly?

>>19629458
How is that any objective standard then? You're fooling yourself.

>>19626537
What's this about intestinal clots now?

>>19629476
>no it doesn't fit my hyperlegalist talmudist religion!
lol

>>19629458
>consent of the faithful
imbecile. It's no wonder the East has fallen to atheistic-communism and has no hope for coming back. And NO, Putin's empty Orthodooox Churches are not a sign of Orthodooox-Resurgence. In fact, Orthodox resurgence is so low that they've had to export it to the Americas, where the resurgence is mostly among the bottom of the barrel sycophants that you will find latching onto anything 'new' 'foreign' and 'cooollectible'; they are no credit to Orthooodoxy any more than a cooollecter of action figures is to capeshit Disney movie franchises.

>>19629475
>rejected them and lived in celibacy
Rose was a faggot until the day that he died. You DO KNOW how he died, don't you?

>>19629480
Fine, be a dumb retard then. You have no interest in the truth or reason.

>>19629483
And we ignore the west that has fallen to Protestantism and then atheism and all manner of sexual depravity. But Rome he a good body and dindu nuffin :)

>>19629492
A council is held. The faithful accept or they revolt and it is overthrown like Florence. Not hard to understand.

>>19629504
So then are Aryans the real Christians

>>19628782
The thing is, the whole point of traditional monkish and priestly garb is to make yourself as humble and unassuming as possible. When you dress like that in modern society you instead stand out like a sore thumb and attract enormous attention. It completely goes against the original point of those costumes. If you read the Rule of Saint Benedict for example, he says the monks are just supposed to wear the absolute cheapest possible clothing that is worn by the people who live in the region around the monastery.

>>19629504
>entire theology consists of agree-and-amplify of whatever the mob thinks
lol this is how you get all those atheist churches that politicians belong to like Methodists or Episcopalians

>>19629494
>Protestantism and then atheism and all manner of sexual depravity
are you talking about your gay-boi Rosie there? Rome has not fallen, despite all appearances to the contrary. In fact, the fact that Rome appears so tumultuous and chaotic is a sure sign of her Apostolicity and Divinity unlike this goody good boi represser bullshit you see with the Orthodooockies (despite being full of MARRIED PRIESTS and Concupiscent unholy practices).

>>19629521
>In fact, the fact that Rome appears so tumultuous and chaotic is a sure sign of her Apostolicity and Divinity
How do you survive while imbibing such large quantities of copium?

>>19629528
By the Grace of God, nothing more, nothing less ;)

>>19629521
The Catholic Church had married priests until at least the 12th century. Even today there are circumstances where priests are permitted to be married.

>>19629521
Married priests is canon law and not the law of God. The Pope could reverse it tomorrow if he wanted to.

Why is always this type of degenerate hedonistic freaks that turn into religious fanatics? Is out of sense of guilt?

>>19629543
Look at how they act on the internet genius. They love being holier than everyone else.

>>19629542
Unmarried priests* I mean
>>19629543
Should they not feel guilt for their depravity? That would be a good reason to throw themselves upon God's mercy.

>>19629543
Same reason the Buddha started out as the high-living son of a king and not a rice farmer.

>>19629489
How? Assassinated by a three letter agency is my first thought. You know Russian influence and all. But I don't really know.

>>19629550
>Look at how they act on the internet genius. They love being holier than everyone else.
kek
>>19629575
How do all repressers like Rose die, silly boy?

>>19629489
>Rose was a faggot until the day that he died. You DO KNOW how he died, don't you?
You are sinning by bearing false witness and slandering him. Disagreeing with him does not exempt you from obeying God's law.

>>19629584
Proof that he died of aids?

>>19629586
Yes, it's plain to see that many people ITT are acting very arrogant and proud because they are ORTODOKS

>>19629607
Even if they are that does not allow you to behave in a similar manner. You are bearing false witness against him and should repent.

>>19629616
I'm not the one saying Seraphim Rose died of AIDS but I wouldn't even put it past him.
How come EO ecclesiology makes no sense?

>>19629631
>but I wouldn't even put it past him.
This is slander as you are implying without evidence that he did not repent of his sins

>>19629584
>When he arrived at the hospital, he was declared to be in critical condition and fell into semi-consciousness. After exploratory surgery was completed, it was discovered that a blood clot had blocked a vein supplying blood to his intestines, which had become a mass of dead tissue. He slipped into a coma after a second surgery, never regaining consciousness.
This is not aids. I think it could be some kind of poison.

>>19629651
I think they are claiming it was damage caused by anal sex.

BAD THREAD

>>19626483
It really is something. He shows that you can convert to Orthodoxy legitimately in the west. That you can overcome homosexual desires. That you can reject all the evils of modernity if you but have the willpowre to do it. This enrages the agents of the devil.

>>19629551
You just prove the critics of christianity right when they say that the religion was made for the lowest people on the hierarchy, like faggots, criminals and prostitutes. And he talks like he was a big authority when he was just a faggot that "changed" out of guilt and started larping

>>19629707
>You just prove the critics of christianity right when they say that the religion was made for the lowest people on the hierarchy, like faggots, criminals and prostitutes.
Well it is. I am not shamed by this. If you are then you are suffering from some kind of spiritual pride. Christ came to heal the sick and his people are the meek and poor in spirit.

>>19629719
And you think its beautiful to be weak? A good value maybe?

>>19629705
Thinking that you overcome temptation through your own willpower is the sin of pride, so...

>>19629734
I said having the willpower to overcome modernity, meaning to actually be willing to put your money where your mouth is and leave society rather than just seething on an anime porn forum all day.

>>19629416
Pederast.

>>19629647
Calm down weirdo, I don't even care about Seraphim Rose, I want to know why no EOs will ever address the question of their own ecclesiology.
If mob rule makes a council true then that's not an objective measure.
If the attendance of certain bishops is what makes a council true then very few councils should be considered true (Including the Florentine Union).
Do you not see what problems there are with this. Did you never have these questions when you decided to begom? Or were you enamored by pretty paintings, lights and bells?

>>19629759
I've never felt the need to have some kind of infallible standard in this way. Judging from the state of western Christianity it does not seem to actually help with anything.

>>19629670
I never knew this before. Could this be why he wasn't canonized? I hope God forgives him and that he found peace in the tradition which he found himself in.

>>19629798
Stop believing lies retard

>>19629808
What lies?

do you guys think that rose knew or at least suspected that his best friend herman was diddling little kids for years?

>>19629813
That he was a practicing homosexual after his conversion.

>>19626358
Do the people in this thread genuinely not believe that Christ can help you overcome your previous sins? Answer this question without reference to Seraphim Rose. I'd like to know.

>>19629765
You don't think about it because it does not help you to think about it. You need a standard for truth or else you have confusion like in the eastern churches where they constantly anathematize each other.
I hope you don't go search for truth in a spiritual wasteland because it dresses itself up with nice clothing and fine architecture.

>>19629798
He'll likely be officially canonized eventually. He already has faithful across the world who venerate him.

>>19629835
>I hope you don't go search for truth in a spiritual wasteland because it dresses itself up with nice clothing and fine architecture.
Don't worry, I'll never become Catholic.

who is the tradcath version of eugene rose?

>>19629865
Unfortunately then you will remain a joke.

>>19629835
You are thinking of these political problems, but those have always been around. You don't have them in Rome currently but you did in the past. For example during the Monothelite controversy the Emperor had Pope Martin I arrested, tortured, and convicted of heresy, then exiled (where he died). While he was imprisoned the Emperor also forced him to abdicate his papacy and for Rome to replace him. But that was a long time ago so you can just push it under the rug and not worry about it. Again I simply don't see any benefit. What help is Francis giving you right now? All that I can see he causes in confusion and strife. It all looks nice on paper but in the real world it is messy and confusing. Orthodoxy looks messy and confusing on paper but in the real world our faith is stable.

>>19629820
Do you think he was immune to sin after his conversion? These people generally are very depraved from all the repression and you have his friends engaging in illicit acts even after their supposed conversion.

>>19629883
>What help is Francis giving you right now?
I'm a sedevacantist.
Your religion is not stable.
It looks confusing because it is confusing.

>>19629891
No I don't. But if you want to accuse him of sinful behavior I expect you to prove it. Given that you cannot I have no reason to hearken to your slander.

>>19629894
>I'm a sedevacantist.
>Your religion is not stable.
>It looks confusing because it is confusing.
The irony is almost too much for me to bear, lol.

>>19629899
How is sedevacantism confusing retard?
A heretic cannot be a Christian so its the only logical position.

>>19629894
You have to be fucking trolling.

>>19629901
Hahaha

It's very strange to find all this sentimentalism and bigotry in a thread about a perennialist (Guenon) and a crypto-perennialis t(Rose). Why can't people understand that God in his infinite vastness created many people and many religions and many sects within each one of these religions and that each one of them thinks that they are correct and the others are all wrong

pbuh

>>19629901
Because you've abandoned the essential principle of unity of your church. It's pure cognitive dissonance.

>>19629925
okay but protestantism is wrong
guenon says so himself

>>19629883
>It all looks nice on paper but in the real world it is messy and confusing. Orthodoxy looks messy and confusing on paper but in the real world our faith is stable.
In all honesty, this. Being messy and confusing on paper actually seems like an advantage, it makes it incredibly difficult for anyone to change anything.

>>19629939
???
Do you actually think sedes deny the papacy?

>>19629865
lmao
how many protties BEGOME orthodok out of spite for Rome? Total insecurity.

>>19629954
No, I do not. Answer me this: how long can the Church go without a Pope?

>>19629945
The New Church founded by Swedenborg is Based.

>>19629955
Imagine seething so much that you would actually write this.
>Jay Dyer
I still don't know who this is by the way

>>19629968
Idk, there have been interregnums that have lasted for over four years, there seems to be no limit or pronouncement on the matter.

>I am a sedevacantist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96WxyxPfOY

>>19629981
Can it go for over 1,000 years without a Pope, theoretically?

>>19629952
>it makes it incredibly difficult for anyone to change anything.
and it makes it incredibly easy to run a LARP. always remember, Ortoducks have married priests. For someone so Concupiscent to be allowed to handle the Sacraments is a dead giveaway that you've got a LARP going on rather than genuine Apostolic Christianity.

>>19629988
If God willed it

>>19629995
So why do Orthodox need a Pope when even you don't?

>>19629992
>For someone so Concupiscent to be allowed to handle the Sacraments is a dead giveaway that you've got a LARP going on rather than genuine Apostolic Christianity.
St. Peter was married you unbelievable dolt.

>>19629992
Priestly celibacy in the Roman church is canon law. That means it is changeable and subject to the discretion of the bishops. It is not a law of God and the Pope could allow all priests to be married tomorrow if he chose to. Rome also used to have married priests in the past and still allows it in some circumstances. Learn your own theology.

>>19629980
>BRUH I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO GAY DYER IS WHY WOULD YOU THINK I'M A LARPER
LARP

>>19629968
>>19629981
>>19629988
>>19629995
>>19630005
Brutality

>>19629894
So you're a protestant?

>>19630017
I gather he's some kind of internet personality. I have been studying Orthodoxy for years and never felt the need to go to inferior sources like this.

>>19630009
before he was an Apostle, you imbecile!

>>19630005
I'm sorry, what need do you have for a Pope when you do not even acknowledge the primacy of Peter?? Can you think for more than ten seconds when trying to come up with gotchas like this? You need the office of the papacy because this is the way God structured his Church, it doesn't matter how long Peter is gone, the office remains.

>>19630005
Because otherwise, you'd remain in you Heresy, Heretic. You need a Pope the same reason a blind man needs eyes.

>>19630048
> I have been studying Orthodoxy for years
Years, you guys! Whole years!

>>19630063
I think your position has been refuted now.

>>19630073
I don't claim to be an expert. But there are better sources than this type of internet polemic from (I presume) laity.

>>19630074
you will end up in Hell and have no excuse for it. in fact, at your death you will run straight to Hell and praise the Justice of God for having been so arrogant as to deny the Rock of His Church in your lifetime. You will love your suffering as a wicked man loves his vice, and I will have no pity for you because one does not question God's Justice in any way shape or form. Repent, convert and denounce your Ortoduk heresy while you still have the time, Heretic.

>>19630098
Hmm? Oh we have had Popes. The last one was Leo IX. We have simply gone without one for 1,000 years, which you said is acceptable theologically. So there is no problem.

>>19630113
You still deny the primacy of Peter though, so...
??
I doubt you want to be likened to sedevacantists anyway.

>>19630134
Why does it matter if he could theoretically be absent for thousands of years?

>>19630137
Because you're wrong? Maybe that's why? This is also not a situation in which we've had an interregnum for 1,000 years, it's less than a century, it's not wrong to say this is a unique point in history.

>>19630147
Anon you should just accept the reality. If you are in this situatoin it means the Catholic papal dogmas are wrong. It doesn't mean Christianity is false so there is no reason to despair. It was just wrong to put trust in this supreme conception of the Roman bishop. Christ's church never depended on this and you can find comfort within his true body.

Why would your personal escape from the earth into immortality depend upon some banal question of geopolitical jurisdiction? Doesn't that just sound obviously bs?

>>19629849
>two more weeks

>>19630168
All the bishops must look to Peter and this has been Church Tradition for ages.

>>19630188
We do not deny that the successor of Peter held a special place, but we believe that he was the first among equals, not the first without equals as the current Roman dogma holds it. And as long as Rome held the faith it was well and good to think of them as a rock of stability, but as you and I both know, Rome no longer holds the faith. But Christ's church is not dependent upon this man. Christ's church stands on its tradition and on its faith. This is what you look to when you say the Pope is not the Pope, is it not? You look to the tradition of the Church and you see that he does not follow it, but rather spits on it. Orthodoxy holds the faith in its original uncorrupted form.

>>19630168
There is nothing of substance in 'orthodoxy', it never expanded outside of its own sphere of influence until recently because dumb anglophones settle for good enough when they leave Pastor Jims baptist church. EOs history is that of constant subjugation by Muslims, tyrannical princes and nobility and communists, why does God allow "his" Church to be in bondage while Rome is making spectacular gains across the world? Is his master plan to only let Slavs and Greeks into heaven?
>It was just wrong to put trust in this supreme conception of the Roman bishop.
I guess you know more than God does then? Why does scripture support papal supremacy?

>>19630242
Anon, Christ tells us that being persecuted for his sake is a blessing. It is hard to take your criticism seriously when you say that persecution is a mark of failure.

>>19630242
>spectacular gains across the world
The Catholic Church's numbers are dropping precipitously everywhere except Africa. And in Africa they're mostly mixing Catholicism with native animistic practices, not really converting.

>>19630263
Its not the persecution that gets me, its the part about the supposed false Church making enormous gains in terms of converts and power. All after losing a considerable number of people to the reformation. If your religion is true why has it not spread to the rest of the world by this point?

>>19630242
>>19630287
Also it's well-known that the Catholic Church is not above lying about it's own membership numbers (see the Knights of Columbus insurance fraud scandal a few years ago).

>>19630293
There is the historical circumstance of being hemmed in from the west and east by various means. I won't claim that the East could not have done a better job, but we both have less than ideal histories.

>>19630325
Well, never forget, the Christian God is the God of history. And also that the keys were given to Peter alone.

>>19630348
Is that Francis who holds them or no one? Which position am I speaking with now?

>>19630348
>Well, never forget, the Christian God is the God of history.
The history of blessing his children in the East with suffering for his sake?

>>19627191
It was clearly a comment on the fact that it is currently winter and the grass is dead or concealed.
again, you are in the clutches of pride and a person obsessed

>>19630078
anon stop arguing with people on the internet

>>19630348
>Christian God is the God of history.
are we talking about the history where muslims conquered and converted all the oldest christian countries or the one where 9/10 of the later crusades to attempt to get back those countries backfired comically?

>>19630397
All Abrahamic religions have the same God. Do you deny YHWH the Jewish God?

>>19629516
Arguing that monastics were supposed to blend in with the humble poor in all cases is simply wrong. Hermitage is not simply living an unassuming life apart. It is a calling and a form of spiritual bondage.
More specifically, hermits were no strangers to alienating the common society and standing apart from them. In the Eastern eremitic tradition you have devotees who lived like wild men in the desert and were essentially unshaved unwashed hoboes to the common eye. In the West, the flagellants and the mendicant friars did this as well - scandalizing the polite society to tend to the religious well-being of the secular world, despite its sensibilities. In all cases there are those who fast to the point of malnutrition.
But all that said, Seraphim Rose was a heiromonk also and he had to dress according to the priestly rule. And the priestly rule specifically was meant to distinguish individuals as an enlightened separate class.

>>19630409
The people called "Jews" today are in no way the Jews of the old testament... Or haven't you noticed that they all look like white Europeans and don't do the whole animal sacrifice thing anymore? They follow a novel religion that was invented around the second or third century AD, and yes, they worship a false god.

>>19630417
>enlightened separate class
>still have concupiscent sex with women
Orthodoxy is a LARP.

>>19629163
If they ask for help from demons in disguise they sure might, Jesus Himself taught to pray to the Father.

>>19629521
The Catholics are suffering from deep internal divisions and losing ground everywhere. Italy herself is now falling and the Protestant mindset is rampant in Germany and South America. Meanwhile the past two hundred years have consisted of increasing adaptation to the modern world, which you yourself have decried as anathema according to its underlying ideological tendencies.
This is not a symbol of inescapable doom necessarily, but you are denying all this while also literally attempting to deflect onto us the far more widespread crisis of pederasty in your own Church, which even the capable and incredibly malevolent Soviet intelligence services could not pin on us. Specifically to the topic of the thread, Seraphim Rose did not hide his past and he did not continue to sin while carrying the holy offices. Where is the problem you seething tradcath?

>>19630450
>Rose did not hide his past and he did not continue to sin while carrying the holy offices.
then explain how he died from a bloody anus in the middle of the woods?

>>19629759
There are no problems with the dominion of the Holy Spirit over Church affairs. Your autistic legalism, however, does seem to spawn many problems which you are happy to wave away.
> you will know them by their fruits
Most directly you are accusing us of some sort of inconsistency while your canons are subject to the schizophrenic whims of the cardinal a la mode in Rome, and if they are especially schizophrenic you say that he is a "bad pope" and the future holders of the office will paste over the inconsistency.

please do not continue to feed the troll
it's Christmas, anons, do not waste your time with factionalist arguing on the internet

>>19630468
How about you study intenstinal clots before you come to the degenerate conclusions you simply wish to?

>>19630428
>haven't you noticed that they all look like white Europeans
Contrary to popular belief it's possible to convert to Judaism and I suppose many Eastern Europeans did, but that doesn't mean that their religion is fake and follow a "false" God because they look white (which they don't it's easy to see the nose and the semitic look)
>They follow a novel religion that was invented around the second or third century AD, and yes, they worship a false god.
They follow the Torah revealed to Moses and the literal word of God.
>They follow a novel religion
As I understand it they have existed thousands of years before Christianity so you are the novel religion here.

>>19630417
>Arguing that monastics were supposed to blend in with the humble poor in all cases is simply wrong.
It's not so much that they were supposed to "blend in" as it is that they were not supposed to purposefully stand out or wear ornate costumes. These days wearing a cassock and a wooden cross amongst regular people is like wearing a Halloween costume.
>In the Eastern eremitic tradition you have devotees who lived like wild men in the desert and were essentially unshaved unwashed hoboes to the common eye.
Yeah but that's because that's what naturally happens to you when you alone in a cave in a desert, they didn't purposefully dress themselves up to look like wild men. Also when you accounts of the desert fathers, you notice that the famous hermits made as much effort as they could to get the fuck away from all the people who were harassing them. What they were trying to do was purify and perfect their own souls, they weren't going into the desert to bring benefits to other people.
>the flagellants and the mendicant friars did this as well
Mendicant orders didn't even come about until the 13th century though, and if you read their history closely it's impossible not to see the roots of Protestantism there imo. The whole idea that monks are supposed to minister to secular society is pretty ahistorical and again really only something that starts coming up with the mendicant orders. For the first 1000 years or so of monasticism monks recognized that involvement with the secular world would inevitably lead to compromise with the secular world and corruption, as in fact we can see happening throughout history with monastic communities acquiring lands and economic privileges and concurrently becoming more corrupt and worldly. Tending to the needs of the laity is the duty of priests.

>>19629894
>I'm the ultimate copium addict
Thanks for tipping your hand. But no wonder, you argue like a heretic aware of his own immense shame

>>19630479
It's not a degenerate conclusion because it is probable that a repressed homosexual with maniacal flights of self-grandeur should find himself alone in the woods with his repressed psyche over-burdened by his Orthodox LARP and proceed to finish himself off the only way that his thoroughly-gay, queer, SERAPHIM mind could fathom; it is merely a probable conclusion, no hoity toity adjectives necessary.

>>19629995
> the church can fall for a thousand years bro dw we actually know what was right & holy all along
Protestant.

>>19629416
You do realize the continent with the most Christians is Africa, right? If you want to split it by denomination, I'd bet most Catholics are Latino and most Protestants are African.

>>19630242
Orthodoxy expanded into the areas of the Slavic pagans and the steppe sky-worshippers primarily through trade and discourse.
It survived the Muslims and the Tzars and the Communists.
Meanwhile the Westerners owe their biggest conversions - throughout South America - to fire and sword, and the same goes for half of their works in Europe, and then they proceeded to repeatedly schism and destroy themselves first through Protestantism then by its successive fruits throughout Modernity.
We have survived sieges from without and even conquest of our lands, you had the world in the palm of your hands then defeated yourselves. Who is acting in accord with the Holy Spirit?

>>19630502
>because it is probable
Yet you speak with such assurance.

>>19630540
Faggot, the birthrates in the East are being dominated by Muslims. Ortodookie's last generation is near. The fact that Putin built some Ortodooky Churches that are mostly empty are not an example of 'survival.' Ortodooky is weak, dying and about to be replaced.

>>19630547
It is very probable when you are a man that can read between the lines.

>>19630468
>>19630502
He didn't die of a bloody anus, he died of oxygen-starved intestines which is a medical condition associated with long stretches of sitting, and reported nowhere as a consequence of sodomy.
this is just another fiction the insane faltering protestants and their ideological ilk have resorted to in their attempts to slander a man they could never match in honest dialogue.
you are a spiteful vitriolic man possessed by demons, please realize this

>>19630552
You're equally screwed in that regard, your aggressive facade can't hide it.
However, we have survived worse lows on the world stage. You are at your lowest.
Arguments invoking birthrates only favor Bedouin, the tribal Afghans, the Peruvian mountain people, and some scattered nomadic groups. People disconnected from modern society are the most resilient. Literally all other societies including the Muslim theocracies are trending downwards in birthrate.

>>19630592
>you are possessed by demons
I suppose to some extent you are correct, but my Faith in Christ and my plenitude of good works demonstrates to myself that I am in His Good Graces. So quit dishing out this "you are possessed by demons" silliness because frankly, it just makes demons look like things that you specifically don't like and therefore makes you the Lord of Demons, given that you can summon them at your will whenever you denounce someone as 'demonic.' Notice that I will only deign to call you stupid and an imbecile. You summon the demons as only the Father of Lies could, and more aptly as only someone that despises the Light of the Truth would. Repent, and turn from your errors, heretical imbecile.

If my only exposure to traditional Christianity (Catholics/Orthodox) was through 4chan I would never have considered converting.
If you're reading this thread and want to know more, go read Fr. Rose's books for yourself and make your own judgements, and go talk to a priest in person instead of relying on the kind of "discourse" found here. My local Antiochan parish was very welcoming even though I showed up unannounced and awkwardly stood in the back during the whole service the first time.

>>19630648
I am way too socially awkward to try talking to a priest in person. Like I'm sure he would make an effort, but after my tenth autistic comment or awkward inability to find something to say, he'd probably just sidle quietly away.

>>19630648
>go read Fr. Rose's books
You literally know him from 4chan lol.
Don't lie or you go to the toll house lol

>>19630662
Well, not to worry, because you can always email one instead.
Besides, you're far from the first sperg to want to go to church and far from the last. Whatever issues you have, the clergy have seen before in spades.

Guenon made me a roman catholic

>>19630648
>>19630662
>>19630663
>>19630664
>A Church of Spergs
Ortodookie is literally a LARP, XD

>>19630592
>and reported nowhere as a consequence of sodomy
HOW CONVENIENT!

>>19630634
I'm not the kind to call everything demonic like some of the posters in these threads, I'm also open to discussing with sedes and trad caths, so let me clearly elucidate what I'm specifically referring to.
In your previous posts you were taking the most mocking and inflammatory tone possible, you were uncritically citing outright falsehoods while trying to tear down the other anons, which is symptomatic of a mutated and unhealthy wrath, which would reflect poorly on even the most reputable charitable person otherwise.
Then in this post, you proceed to ramp up the cope with each sentence, to the point where you're labeling my more grounded position as belonging to the Father of Lies, which is far beyond what I accused you of doing.
This looks like an empty rhetorical device to defend your own position by attacking mine, with no further substance besides invoking good works - which is not sufficient and in any case cannot be proven in this thread. At best we can get insight into the disposition of an anon's soul.

>>19630592
>>19630685
>dying of anal stigmata is too stigmatized to report
kek

>>19630679
Stop being silly.

>>19630688
>you're being too mean and linguistically charged
you are an Ortodookie baby bitch whose spiritual descent comes from the same heretics that were wiped out by Muslims and that are still being wiped out by Muslims to this day. I care nothing for your effeminate pretend-nice judgments and only burn with the Love of Christ and the Holy Trinity. If this bothers you, good. The Love of Christ should be bothersome to those that are strangers to it; accept it or perish.

>>19630685
I'm not talking about the actual case of Seraphim Rose, this is a well-established medical condition called intestinal ischemia.
It happens when a clot blocks a vein in the upper abdomen, highlighted on pic related.
It is far away from the anus and has nothing to do with any form of anal sex, which has well documented consequences in the form of STDs, prolapses, local scarring, and possible increased rates of rectal cancer.

>>19630676
me too

>>19630710
>>19630717

>>19630717
>pederastic homosexual prostitute dies of anal disorder
>N-NO REALLY G-GUYS THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM BEING A PEDERASTIC HOMOSEXUAL PROSTITUTE THE AUTOCEPHALOUS SEDEVACANTISM PATRIARCH OF ROMANIA SAID SO
lol

>>19630729
if this is the level of discourse the average westoid can muster then it's no surprise your children are all trannies

>>19630738
At least westerners still have children, unlike in the Abortion Federation.

>>19630714
> my demented loosely-founded ranting is actually tough love
You're confusing deranged screeching with severity. Get a grip

>>19630719
*high five*

>>19630753
They don't. The only two exceptions are the rural Americans who are at the end of their rope, and the Frenchies who are peak degenerates
Otherwise it's only immigrants and brown people keeping up the population, also
>durr at least we're having children even if they're trannified adhd nonbinary zoomers
this is literally worse than never having been born you fucking retard

>>19630755
>imbecile does not understand how chaotic love can be, especially the grander, Spiritual Love of the Trinity
it is no wonder that your kind cannot defend themselves against Muslims. you are too stupid, and spiritually vacuous.

>>19630767
What percentage of the population is actually that way vs the ones living rent-free in your head? If the only defense of Christianity is that it is a morality framework to wield against deviants then just have your morality and don't bother with all the theology nonsense. It's like some sort of self-defeating psyop. Go be a monk if you care enough, otherwise this larp convinces no one

>>19630760
were you already one or did you convert

>>19630776
>implying
your traditions would wither under the Ottomans or Arabs or Soviets within a lifespan.
But really anon.
The Crusades and 19th-century colonialism literally reduced the proportion of Christians living in those areas. Your rule has only ever favored them and then you dare speak about how we can't defend ourselves against them?
When the West is not involved they get the Balkan Wars or Chechen War, they lose soundly, they are forcibly integrated. When the West is involved like in the Yugoslav Wars or the recent refugee crisis, their every action seems to benefit the Muslims in the end.
Istanbul would have been ours for 200 years but the British and French defended the failing Ottomans in the Crimean War.

This guy could not make it any more obvious that he is trolling and you all keep replying seriously to him. /lit/ is too earnest for its own good.

>>19630854
>forcibly integrated
or expelled, like they were in the Balkan Wars I should say.
The Balkans were the heart of the Ottoman empire and the Christian revolt tore it out and sent them all packing... except in Bosnia and Albania where YOU protected them.
Good show.

>>19630854
>Istanbul would have been ours for 200 years but the British and French defended the failing Ottomans in the Crimean War.
Ah yes how glorious it would have been to have a Thracian SSR filled with central Asian laborers and all those Turks deported to Kamchatka

>>19630854
cope

>>19626477
The supposed idea of hell being eternal has more gray area than you would think. Not everyone agrees with the universalism presented in That All Shall Be Saved (basically in Hell bad people pay for their crimes and are made to transform, but that payment is not eternal forever and ever) but it can't be completely dismissed either once it's brought up.

>>19631329
It's called purgatory.

>>19631585
Purgatory stops at a certain point, universalism says even Hitler will pay and then exit hell at some far point

>>19627191
When did I imply that? Or are you just severely autistic, and thus incapable of self-awareness due to reasons outside your control?

>>19630864
>The Balkans were the heart of the Ottoman empire

>>19630856
There are a lot of internet tradcaths that behave in this way. There's a certain kind of prideful personality that feels itself drawn to extreme positions and rhetoric and ends up losing touch and lashing out like this. He may indeed just be a troll but he's doing it by impersonating people that actually exist.

>>19632000
Not him, and I'm not an expert, but weren't they for long periods? Ottoman control over its Arab tributaries was usually nominal, and the area around Constantinople was vital for security, and they focused most of their foreign policy in the Balkans for long periods of time because of their imperial ambitions at first and then later the Austro-Hungarian and Russian threats

By the 19th century they barely seemed to care about their Islamic world possessions, they couldn't even curtail the Barbary pirate states and effectively ceded the Arab countries to whatever colonial powers grabbed them on some pretext. Meanwhile Russia was trying to fingerfuck their asshole with long guitarist fingernails every ten seconds.

>>19631585
Only people who are saved go to purgatory where there remaining sin is cleansed from them to prepare them to enter heaven. The damned do not go to purgatory but to hell.

>>19626483
Among people praising Seraphim Rose there are nails that better be hammered down (ortholarpers mainly). But its true that some jimmies are being rustled by his mame, and for no good reason.

abrahamism is sectarian, sentimentalist, populist and anti-traditional

>>19632710
it is also epinly unpoggers, unwholesome chungus and certainly not keanu 100

>>19632710
>*minimizes tranny porn*
>abrahamism is sectarian, sentimentalist, populist and anti-traditional
>*maximizes tranny porn*

>>19630472
Yes, if you go against the teachings of the Church you are no longer Christian, that seems to be pretty consistent throughout history you dumb swine.

>>19630057
>Primacy of Peter
>James presided over the council in Acts, not Peter
>Peter accepted Paul's position instead of stubbornly pushing his own like papists do today

>>19633019
>Everybody fell silent when Peter spoke
>There was no further discussion when he was done

>>19633061
Then please do your part to obey Vatican and Pope Francis domo arigatou

>>19633066
Meant to say Vatican II* there

>>19633066
Why should I adhere to a false council? Are you going to adhere to what was pronounced at Ephesus II or Florence or any other council you deem "false"?

>>19633085
Peter has spoken and it is your duty to fall silent and obey. Tradition is not of private interpretation like those nasty protties and orthodogs you know?

>>19633061
>>19633085
>Obey Peter!
>But not that Peter uh
>Actually there isn't any Peter at the moment
>So submit to Peter or you will go to hell

>>19633090
I'm so glad you agree, so when will you accept the Florentine union?

>>19633105
Are sedevacantists really this retarded?

>>19633103
>>19633110
Are you? Why do you act like there have not been antipopes in history or papal interregnums?

>>19633121
Are you currently under the authority of a local bishop?

>>19633133
It's been a few hours now so I suppose he sede is not actually part of any church and is just some guy sitting in his house doing whatever he feels like.

Relax, he probably just went to bed.

>>19633425
Not fooling anyone.

Not him, go to bed.

>>19633465
You know that's what sedevacantists are, don't you? They have a few little schismatic groups here and there but the majority of them are not part of any church at all.

What time zone are you in btw? Here it's 8:00 AM and I just woke up an hour ago.

>>19633514
It's 10:00AM here and I woke up at 4:00AM

Oh OK I thought you people must have been in Australia or something lol.

>>19629818
bueller?

>>19633729
I've looked into it before and have not seen any evidence that he knew.

>>19633729
I will add that I have read a few statements that he did find out shortly before his death and cursed Herman over the matter. But I have not been able to find real sources for that. Maybe they exist but I can only find hearsay.

>>19633884
>trust me guys, I have looked into it

>>19633929
I added this >>19633927. But if you know of any evidence I would like to hear it. I imagine if it existed then his detractors would spread it far and wide.

>>19633938
Super suspicious that he was himself a massive faggot before his "conversion" and then just so happens to be best friends with a child molester afterwards. When circumstances are THIS suspicious it really becomes incumbent on his supporters to prove his innocence rather than on his detractors to prove his guilt. If a Catholic priest had a similar history I would be assuming he was in on it.

>>19633963
Well I will tell you a lead I found and you can investigate it if you wish. I saw someone claim that in his biography it is mentioned that he was informed shortly before his death and cursed Herman. This is not in the current edition of his biography so there is a possibility it was in the earlier edition, titled "Not of This World." I cannot find an ebook of it and it the cheapest used copy I can find is $350. So you can check there if you want.

>>19633963
Anyway, it has been quite a while since this has happened and he has no shortage of detractors. I think if he were implicated in anything then it would have seen the light by now. The crimes of Herman certainly did.

Grave of Righteous Seraphim (Rose) of Platina

>>19633090
>Peter has spoken and it is your duty to fall silent and obey
I'll hold out for word from James.

>>19634020
>be celeb in full costume and write books to other hipsters
>get an elaborate shrine

>be humble nondescript servant of the Lord
>bones in a pile next to other bones in a pile next to other bones in a pile and so on or just one of another grave with identical simple markers
I respect Eugene Rose on certain levels but humans just can't get anything right.

>>19627170
Americans corrupt everything they touch.

>>19630491
>These days wearing a cassock and a wooden cross amongst regular people is like wearing a Halloween costume.
In orthodox countries, it's normal for a priest. We are used to it, I guess. In america where this tradition was never mainstream, it's weird, obviously.

>>19634259
Mark 12:38

>>19634194
>>be humble nondescript servant of the Lord
These people were all monks and would have worn the same "full costume"

pre-Sedevacantist here
Is it okay if i support a Sede-Apostolate in the form of financial contributions in the humble amount of say $10K/annus without having yet attended a Sedevacantist Tridentine Pre-VII Mass? I know that many Sedevacantist bishops are valid bishops, having been consecrated by Roman Catholic Bishops that rejected Vatican II, and so I feel at ease giving them my hard-earned cash. The only thing that I fear is that I will be seen as uncouth for it.

>>19634194
>in full costume
Allow me to propose an alternate way of perceiving the priest/monk garb in western society. It makes you stand out, but not necessarily in a positive way. To most people it is going to make you look rather ridiculous. So I think there is an element of allowing yourself to be humiliated and be viewed as a fool for Christ's sake. I don't equate it to the full "fool for Christ" archetype, but I think there is something going on in that is similar.
>and write books to other hipsters
Given that he actually gave up his worldly life and relegated himself to a cell in the woods, I fail to see how he is a "hipster". Perhaps a quantity of his readers have been, but I don't think there is anything about his conversion that is inauthentic like you are implying.
>...
If his fellow monks have chosen to venerate him, they are among many across the world who do so. He didn't build his own grave.

>>19634649
Funny how I've seen vast numbers of photos of monks and priests but never another one in this getup, and he was known to love special hats, and obviously worshiped his own beard to boot. He was very fashion and image conscious.

>>19634685
>gave up his worldly life and relegated himself to a cell in the woods
>in between visits to college campuses and other hipster hotspots
>look at muh costume everyone
>even more aesthetic than Buddhism
>I've begome
>(You) begome too if (You) want to be this cool
>muh books

>>19629759
The movement of the church is the sign of which councils are true, which is why there can be local synods the whole church accepts. This isn't mob rule because the church is guided by the Holy Spirit.
>>19629543
Because God came to save sinners not the righteous.

>>19634716
I think you've decided to view him with spite in your heart and there's likely nothing I can say to change that. Have a good day.

>>19629730
Not him but fallen nature itself is a weakness. Recognizing this isn't saying it's a virtue. Nor are the poor blessed but the poor in spirit.

>>19629891
>do you think
>these people generally
>supposed conversion
Gossipy faggot.

>>19634695
>that pic
like I said before,
the probability that a flowery-like represser by the name of 'Seraphim Rooooose' finds himself alone in the woods and happens to break down as a consequences of his LARP going askew, leading to a queer, inexplicably profane death that is easily categorizable as being among anal hemorrhagic conditions proceeding from sodomy, vice and demonic forces is very likely
Being Ortodok literally killed this man when he should've put himself under the authority of Rome, and not some Concupiscent Married Priests LARP that goes off and on again where you have atheists, communists, Mohammedans, Orientals, Mongols and all numbers of conquerors corrupting your 'unwritten, unrecorded, byzantine' meme-religion whose only claim to legitimacy is that Rome once regarded it as worthy of excommunication, being a heretical deviant perversion of the Apostolic, Catholic Faith.

>>19634947
You've been a great witness against traditionalist Catholicism in this thread, I can tell you that.

>>19634726
I think (You) choose to cleave to your institution, aesthetic, and human hero worship. REPENT.

>>19634956
you're a filthy heretic. I take no pleasure informing you of this.

>>19634961
Will you answer this now? >>19633133

>>19634963
I'm not that guy, imbecile.

>>19634981
You can answer it anyway, I don't care if you're the same person.

>>19626358
Atheist copers burning with rage at the Faith and spiritual comfort of Father Seraphim Rose. I will leave them with pic related.

>>19629442
>unironically
Cuz you only spank it to boiupuss ~ironically~ right? :^)

>>19635143
Consider, imbecile, that it is not with the decadent sons of Satan that you must wage against, but the Spiritual Sons of Peter, the closest to Christ and most beloved by far; you must contend with far greater powers than your mind so far can comprehend -- say something unexpected such as The Inquisition! Although I am not so good that I could stand shoulder to shoulder among such holy, learned men. Begone, even if you must first begoooom, heretic.

>>19633133
So that's two sedevacantists that have refused to answre this question so far. They could always just lie but that would bring further questions and they would eventually be rooted out for not being of the church at all.

By the way, what does all this sedevacantist stuff have to do with literature? Any actual books you dopes can talk about?

>>19635476
There have been several of them slandering the subject of the thread for many posts now.

>>19626376
Guenon is full of shit, so that's not surprising. People also change their mind, and bad writers - like Guenon - even change their mind in the course of a book, have no logical framework throughout.

>>19630714
You're doing that prot thing where they have an emotional outburst and then say you don't have the Spirit because you aren't flipping out too.

>>19635524
>t.heretic
I am as cool as a Rock my dude.

>>19634695
>>19634947
Those are literally just vestments.

>>19635251
>>19635537
>say something unexpected such as The Inquisition!
>I'm as cool as a Rock my dude
Honestly this was great bait. You had my going, I think lots of people found this funny.

>>19634985
I am a bishop, child.

>>19635524
And I might add that any outburst that you speak of is clearly the out-bursting of flames that is now coming from beneath your feet, demon!

>>19635143
Yet another christer who failed to understand Nietzsche. Atheism is not a hate for god. It's his funeral.

>>19635582
see >>19635592
>HEE HEE HEE OH YOU SO FONNY!
This is why your Ortoduk conversion and religion is a LARP.

>>19635251
is this a quote from someone or is this just you

>>19635251
>people are out to get me aaaaa save me volcano demon

>>19635610
Because I can't take a guy who quotes Monty python in the midst of calling me a demon sincerely?

>>19635610
Are you under the authority of a local bishop?

>>19635742
>quoting monty python
you do know that The Inquisition precedes your stupid little theatrical show by centuries, right? does everything you see only make sense to you in light of your funny television shows, imbecile? Do you understand now why I therefore consider your Ortodok obsession a meme, theatrical and a phony LARP? You have the mind of an American and consoom religion like you'd consume a burger from whichever one of your auto-cephalic fast food franchises.

>>19635835
>Sedevacantist who is not part of any Christian church calling someone else a LARPer
The jokes write themselves

>>19635969
>HEE HEE HEE SO FONNY
Ortodok Swine.

>>19635985
When was the last time you took the sacrament? Are you even baptized?

Can the sedevacantist answer this: what do you think of the SSPX after the expose a little while back about how they have been covering up for pedos just like the Vatican? Is there any Catholic group to join that doesn't cover up for pedos?

just started reading Orthodoxy and the Religion of the future last night. pretty good desu
thank god I read guenon first
he reminds me of Charles Upton a bit

>>19630011
>As the twelfth century drew to a close, the Church was ap- proaching a crisis in its career. The vicissitudes of a hundred and fifty years, skilfully improved, had rendered it the mistress of Christendom. History records no such triumph of intellect over brute strength as that which, in an age of turmoil and bat- tle, was wrested from the fierce warriors of the time by priests who had no material force at their command, and whose power was based alone on the souls and consciences of men. Over soul and conscience their empire was complete. No Christian could hope for salvation who was not in all things an obedient son of the Church, and who was not ready to take up arms in its defence ; and, in a time when faith was a determining factor of conduct, this belief created a spiritual despotism which placed all things within reach of him who could wield it.
>This could be accomplished only by a centralized organization such as that which had gradually developed itself within the ranks of the hierarchy...The line of separation between the laity and the clergy was widened and deepened by the enforcement of the canon requiring celibacy on the part of all concerned in the ministry of the altar. Revived about the middle of the eleventh century, and enforced after an obstinate struggle of a hundred years, the compulsory celibacy of the priesthood divided them from the people, preserved intact the vast acquisitions of the Church, and furnished it with an innumerable army whose aspirations and ambition were neces- sarily restricted within its circle.
Based

>Dulcissime Jesu, da mihi fidei, spei et caritatis augmentum, cor contritum et humiliatem.
>x3
Amen

>>19636028
He's just a troll. His response
to me pointing out his Monty python quote is was to act like I'm a fan of the show or something. Complete intellectual dishonesty. As I said earlier, a good bait, while it lasted.

>>19636386
>everything I don't like is a demon or a troll
grow up Ortodumb

you fags turned what could've been a great thread into a shit thread

>>19636499
>thread about a celeb
>potentially great

>crypto worships Ishtar
>calls others fags