/lit/ - Literature

>>19628434
I prefer Mason & Dixon but Augustus is up there.

>>19628434
>trusting a news agency for literature reviews
ishygddt

>>19628449
>Mason & Dixon
is that one really a historical novel? I imagined it was just wacky postmodernist stuff but in the past

>>19628454
>what is an historical novel?

>>19628458
a realist (as opposed to postmodern) story set in a historical setting

>The finest historical novel ever written by an American.
that's like so subjective man

>>19628464
you're arbitrarily adding the 'realist' requirement, m'fraid.

>>19628475
I don't think so. It's a general requirement. If you add wacky stuff it's no longer a historical novel.

>>19628485
Where is this stated?

>>19628485
hogwash.
>tell him he's adding meanings due to personal whim
>i don't think so!
of course you don't think so. you're still incorrect.
i suggest you study up on what a novel is.

>>19628490
Where is what stated?

>>19628497
What you fucking said. What are you basing that on?

>>19628502
he's basing it on the log he just pulled directly from his ass.

>>19628502
Encyclopaedia Britannica:
>a novel that has as its setting a period of history and that attempts to convey the spirit, manners, and social conditions of a past age with realistic detail and fidelity (which is in some cases only apparent fidelity) to historical fact.

>>19628509
>in an act of desparation he equates realistic detail with the genre 'realism'
i'm sorry friend, ya dun fucked up.

>>19628475
is it still historical if I turn romans and gauls into cute anime girls?

>>19628509
I see your definition and counter with one of my own.

>>19628521
you bet, buddy

>>19628513
I never mentioned any genre. I mentioned an adjective
>realist: style that is characterized by the representation of people or things as they actually are.
If it's wacky shit in the past, then, it's not a historical novel but a postmodern one.

>>19628434
Imagine I've got a receding hairline, a very high narrow nose, big watery brown eyes, a thin pubish moustache, a small chin, dangly fat cheeks, and a small mouth with overly-plump bright-red lips.
>OH! but you know what I really DO like? I like Julian by Gore Vidal. Gore Vidal is SUCH a good historical novelist... really. He's such an aristocrat you know, and in America, of allll places.. The best historical novel on the Woah-mans no lie, I swear by it.
This post is meant to preempt that one guy always shilling for Vidal.

>>19628522
>wikipedia, a website any retard can edit and has tons of misguided info, is my source
yea, alright, kid. you really showed me.

>>19628532
>>19628464
>a realist story
so you don't mean the words you use? i guess this explains your lax comprehension of words.

>>19628539
Just take the L. It's a historical novel and no amount of pedantry is going to change that.

>>19628537
i posit that you are this man yourself, and setting the stage for you to appear as the hero of your own constructed narrative.

>>19628544
Yes, I meant it, but in the way you interpreted them. I'm only responsible for what I said, not for what retards make of it.

>>19628565
>the author is alive! pls believe me!
how to tell me you're a midwit without telling me you're a midwit (as if i didn't know already)

>>19628549
I don't know. This is what I was asking >>19628454
before being asked what a historical novel was >>19628458
and having Britannica >>19628509 backing up my definition >>19628464

>>19628576
>the author is alive! pls believe me!
what the fuck does that have to do with anything?

>>19628582
You're still purposefully pretending to misunderstand the difference between a realist novel and a novel depicting a historical period with realistic detail.

>>19628582
again, having realistic details in no way implies or even suggests that the work itself must be in any way realistic. it simply means that the work applies elements which are accurate according to historical records. were this not the case, a massive number of historical novels would be ripped out of their safe genre and tossed into this indiscriminate genre you have named 'postmodern'. i am dubious you even have a means to describe what postmodernism is, but rather use it as some catchall for recent literature you don't understand or like.

>>19628583
>he doesn't understand
i'm shocked! bear witness to my shock!

>>19628591
I never mentioned the term "realist novel." I said realist story. Realist means "representing a person or thing in a way that is accurate and true to life." This use of the word is not at odds with Britannica's definition of a historical novel.

>>19628617
Mason & Dixon is classified as a historical novel. The point is moot no matter how pedantic you try to be.

>>19628603
>realistic details AND fidelity to historical fact
If you add wacky shit, you cease to have a historical novel. Now, I don't know if M&D is historical fiction or not (THIS IS WHAT I WAS ASKING IN THE FIRST PLACE). But by the way you guys reacted to my definition of a historical novel, I don't think it fits.

>>19628626
>Mason & Dixon is classified as a historical novel.
On Wikipedia...

>>19628643
>he uses ellipses incorrectly
you're like some sort of normie unicorn

>>19628643
I'm not sure what you want. Here's Goodreads.

>>19628659
>by internet users from a site where retards give Moby-Dick 1 star reviews

>>19628672
I don't know what you want. Here's Amazon.

>>19628690
Amazon also says Invisible Cities is "biographical historical fiction". It's literally a fantasy novel about imaginary cities. I wouldn't trust them.

>>19628722
Historical fantasy is a subgenre of historical fiction. You may choose to ignore this as well, as you have ignored all other pieces of evidence that contradict your preconceived notions.
You're a strange, sad little man and you have my pity.

>>19628748
>Historical fantasy
Sounds like an oxymoron. My apologies for thinking historical fiction should be realistic and close to historical fact.
>>19628603
Apparently I was sort of right but so were you. Mason & Dixon is a "historiographic metafiction." It combines some elements from historical fiction and postmodernism.

>>19628784
i can live with that. merry christmas, pleb!
you got me with the fidelity bit, but i must say, at the bottom of that britannica definition, it suggests that the alternative is that it's a "purely escapist costume romance" which is what i'm going to lovingly call Son et Xon from now on.

>>19628852
Merry Christmas. Sorry for being stupid. I have a broader view of what historical fiction is now.

>>19628434
I haven't read enough historical fiction to say whether it's the best American historical novel but it is an excellent novel, one of my favorites. I highly recommend it.

>>19628434
w-why is there a conception that americans cant write historical about non-american settings?

>>19628603
that would become historical fantasy actually.
historical fiction and historical fantasy are two sides of the genre. if there's magic but also austicially accurate descriptions of julius caesar it's historical fantasy, not catch-all fantasy.

>>19628434
no.
>pic related

>>19629049
Americans always seem too focused on themselves, a bit of an onanistic, solipsistic culture.

>>19628784
>Sounds like an oxymoron.
so does magical realism but here we are

>>19629060
do you know what the word fiction means?

>>19629067
that's literally every country dude. i dont see china writing novels about germany, i dont see england writing novels about turkey. in every country 90% of their novels are about their own country/people. if anything americans are the least egocentric because it's such a young country that many get bored and write about other places for a change of pace.

why are europeans like this. america lives rent free in their head. say the same about canadians or australians and someone would call you a bigot, but if we all rush to imply americans cant write a novel set someone abroad it's supported by every major media outlet.

>>19629095
You asked a question, mate. I simply answered why the notion existed.

>>19629093
>seething autistic autist
I lost my copy of the dictionary, you should check your mother's loose cunt for it. We were out of cum rags to mop it up with after I berried her with my excalibur.

>>19629095
it's because we fucked up and stopped the shoah.

>>19629093
do you know what the word history means?

>>19628497
I've always hated historical novels for some reason. Texts on history, novels or stories from certain time periods are fine, but for some reason, historical novels and historical stories have always really rubbed me the wrong way.

I just can't help but see the modern author in it.

>>19629109
lol. pleb.

>>19629114
all history is fiction.

>>19629132
all fiction is reality

>>19629113
>it's because we fucked up and stopped the shoah.
>shoah
Hitler had one fucking job and he fucked it up. 6 million dead yids and I can't open query tracker and scroll down before 10 yids drop out of the agents list. someone is lying.

>>19629143
>i'm a retard and think i'm proving a point
sorry your history is all made up shit
whoops!
>>19629146
ikr, eh. just gotta forgive the kikes, man. if you can learn to forgive even them, you'll leave all that rage behind. by the way, what do you think of the fact that we as men have naught but one cheek to turn?
also, apparently you're only supposed to forgive someone 490 times. for future reference.

>>19629176
>sorry your history is all made up shit
filtered by history

>>19629176
>you're only supposed to forgive someone 490 times. for future reference.
Jews have exceeded 1,030.
http://www.chuckmaultsby.net/id154.html

>>19629183
i mean you personally
>>19629181
have you ever watched a court proceeding? history doesn't real, my friend.

>>19629121
There's some phony aspect to them, especially if they're postmodern, like "dude you're reading a novel xD lmao." Just too fake.

>>19629190
>i mean you personally
the enemies of Christ are my enemy, personally

>>19629228
well, he forgives them. those were even his last words. why hold judgment when it's not even your right to? be happy, my friend. bask not in acrimony and rejoice, for Christ is born!

>>19629242
t. wears a very small hat and is sweating profusely

>>19629272
nah, i'm a negro

>>19629288
it shows

>>19629289
you just accused me of being a kike. you're not doing a very good job!

>>19629298
I'm another guy. I was just paying attention to you guys ITT.

>>19629300
you're lucky my days of wife fuckin are over.

>>19629288
why do you defend the people who enslaved you? are you buck broken?

>>19629334
i forgive them. is it really that hard to understand? would you rather me go round playing the knockout game like some brute? i really don't have time to let hatred fester in my heart over shit i can't control. my personal life has been a delight, and besides, people who devote themselves to an ideology contingent on race are pretty stupid. would you save someone that's your race over someone of a different race merely for that reason? that sort of silly thinking really doesn't suit me.

>>19629334
he was never a slave

>>19628454
no less historical than this, have you even read a postmodern novel before?