/lit/ - Literature

There are books by gays who hate children because they are a symbol of the future that interrupts hedonism in the present.

>>19617609
In Wyndham Lewis's books he often takes the piss out of the "child cult" that he sees around him in the 1920s-30s.
See The Art of Being Ruled, Time and Western Man, the Apes of God.

>>19617636
QRD

>>19617609
Have sex

>>19617609
>I've noticed that older cultures used to view children as inferior human beings until they came of age and proved themselves to be proper adults.
Examples?

>>19617609
It stems from Christ's teachings on children which were first taken seriously in the West during the Victorian era when the cult of domesticity first arose. The angel of the house needed her lesser lights. Such sentimentality is completely alien to Confucian Sinosohere cultures, for example. Even Japan with its Kawaii insanity brutalizes its children beyond belief in the concentration camps it calls schools. Like all contemporary Western values, the cult of the child is simply a holdover from Christianity, an atavism, a rotting corpse on parade, that the West continues to apply and even enforce even though it makes no sense at all divorced from Christian metaphysics and in some ways becomes sickeningly perverse, even turned as a makeshift blugeon against God Himself ("How can God exist in a world where insects lay eggs inside of children?"). Imagine someone from a society that sacrifices a quarter of its unborn to Mammon annually merrily dusting off his cute li'l Funkopops collection and daintily stooping to kiss his favorite upon its xenoestrogen-infused microplastic-billowing brow and whispering, "Daddy loves you more than anything." I wish people would examine the geneology of their morals but these things are reproduced subconsciously. God I pity children for the adults they become.

>>19617609
>>19617636
There’s also literature that values children for their amorality and refusal to endorse adult hypocrisy (Genet, Gide)

>>19617644
God in Heaven...

>>19617911
>In some ways becomies sickeningly perverse
I've actually noticed this too, and this is one of the bigger reasons why I'd like to see the other side of the equation. But in general despite the West openly going against Christianity, a lot of it's behavior is still deeply rooted in the practice, which like you correctly pointed out, becomes worse when it's done outside of Christ-paradigm.

>>19617636
Was kinda looking for something less nihilistic and more along the lines "adulthood>childhood". The current cult of the child is essentially just a giant worship of childhood, and I was wondering how it would have been if it was the opposite. >>19617644 Isn't what I was looking for.


>>19617919
That's kinda still within the paradigm of the "holy child". You can similarly make a case that childs ignorance is the ultimately enemy as a lot of evils in this world stem from a childs inability to understand the world, and by the time it grows up the bitterness stemming from its own ignorance have already corrupted it.

Hypocrisy usually stems from both sides.

>>19617641
Great suggestions, thanks.

>>19617609
confessions of St Augustine

>>19617644
kek

>>19617644
Fags cant have children and therefore hate them. Already read it.

>>19617636
should’ve posted baedan you illiterate

>>19617609

IF THERE IS SOMETHING GOOD THAT CAME OUT OF ILLUSTRISM, THAT IS THE VINDICATION OF CHILDHOOD, WHICH IS IRONICAL, SINCE THE ILLUSTRISTIC EPOCH INAUGURATED THE START OF THIS ATHEISTIC ERA, AND THE HIGH ESTEEM FOR CHILDHOOD IS A PARTICULARLY CHRISTIAN QUALITY THAT WAS SOMEHOW NEGLECTED FOR CENTURIES PRIOR, EVEN DURING THE BAROQUE EPOCH.

>>19617609

Sorry about all the nerds calling you gay for finding children annoying, which they are

Really, both perspectives in this thread are true. It is generally good to reproduce, while children themselves are generally shitty people until at least adolescence. America has always been a childish nation because we have never had a very strong idea of what it means to be human. So hedonism and appetite worship, and leniency towards and secret admiration of criminals like serial killers has always been very America tier. Like a gigantic grown baby tugging on the tail of a cat and giggling as it cries out in pain. Not to mention the truly weird and obsessive love of women. And not a purely illusory, male constructed love of women like you would see in Europe - the idea of a "virtuous woman" (without noticing the the contradiction lmao). But an American love of brute, dark feminity in its true form belonging to the night. That seems to me drawn from the same impulse as the child cult

>>19619535
Very interesting, think this one actually hit the nail on its head in terms of what I was looking for - thanks.
>>19619553
I don't believe that America was a childish nation a hundred - or more, years ago, so something must have changed along the lines, and in my eyes it was the faustian conquest of the America. Once all antagonistic elements were conquered, the hardy and resilient people were outbred by the weak and fragile, who wouldn't have survived if it wasn't the former paving the way for the latter.

Feel free to debate me on that

>>19617609

Quite the contrary, Hegel is right about everything: current children are not sanctified, they merely partake in the overall equalizing of household members, i.e. the father is no longer the monarch and the mother no longer the serf, one has to imagine a combination of all obscenities, livestock and jester and such, to unearth the abolished role of the child. Traditionally, children only grew into a false and perverse adulthood, analogous to the most debased sexual fantasies currently detailed by self-admitted sexual perverts, that lasted until they left the parental home. Globohomo should at least be commended for immanentizing the reality, as opposed to the fantasy, of tradition, not only the fantasy with which we retrospectively view tradition, but the actual fantasy in and of tradition itself. Traditional households are practically distinct species, the obsession with community is morbid precisely because households actually shared nothing, each of them is a properly Lovecraftian vista of utter incomprehension, an implicitly insane tyranny of the father. Current households are isolated because community is made redundant by the actual sharing of values. Unfortunately, for you, not for me, this is not Catholic natural revelation whereby tradition is delivered from itself and enters the next tier of being, but merely a confirmation that there is a nail driven in each hand. The global bonfire of the internet can now burn ALL faces.

>>19619542
you are literally a paedophile kys

>>19617644
How do I deal with my hatred of other gays as a gay?

>>19617911
only the poor children.

OP is, yet again, perhaps persistingly so, ON SOME RETARD SHIT!

Get over yourself, and for the love of our God, do NOT have kids!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING NIGGER

>>19620580
so its basically watered down copies of humans spiralling towards degeneracy until they take like some type of heros journey? why cant it be more like build upon a house to a castle?

The child, like the female, and the feline —among other things—, comes into special prominence at the beginning, and the end, of an (arch)supercycle; it is no wonder that Jesus Christ appeared as a child to his disciples, and that Christian Gnostic texts are especially so childly enthusiastic for the revival of nobility.

Folk that sincerely appreciate their elders tend to cherish children to the same degree —whether overtly, or covertly—, and vice versa.

Incidentally: Russia is one of those countries that generally exalts the beauty of all of the aforementioned archetypes, especially in literature.

>you are literally a paedophile kys

>>19617725
>>19622399
Seethe, cope, dilate

>>19617609
Look up Peter Singer's writings on abortion, he basically argues this originates from Christianity.
>>19617832
The ancient Greeks threw sickly babies off cliffs without a second thought. Singer makes sure to bring this up.

>>19617644
Lmao
I hope we find the cure for homosexualism soon. These people are deranged

>>19620189
>Very interesting, think this one actually hit the nail on its head in terms of what I was looking for - thanks.
No worries, it's perhaps a bit broader but the first few chapters definitely go into what you mentioned in the OP.

>>19617644
>Lee (((Edelman))) is a Professor of English at Tufts University
yikes
>>19620635
You know what to do

>>19617644
>Queer is a narcissistic, antisocial death drive
Uhh... Based??

I suppose one major consequence is that children are not driven to become adults anymore. At best they aim to be overgrown kids. But I wouldn't point the finger at the notion that a child can do no wrong, as it's just a symptom, but rather this asinine fear of letting children experience life and be taught about the existence of this thing called hardship. Since their abstract capabilities are low, the best learning method is by being put through a series of concrete real challenges. Otherwise, how are you going to grow without any experience?
The black hole of nothingness that is the 12 year school system is also to blame here. It stifles the prospect of growing upwards.

>>19622948
>...it is no wonder that Jesus Christ appeared [in the form of] a child to his disciples...

>>19623138
Astute observation. On your argument of 'drive', we see this right now, as majority of people look back at their childhood and in some cases even wish to return to it, because it allowed them to live in a carefree world where they didn't need to do shit in order to survive. I noticed that those who had shitty childhood - not as in insane parents, but poor family with few prospects - generally view adulthood as something better because at the very least they now hold the power to change their life, which is not something a child will ever be capable of doing.

Perhaps it is more prudent to give children challenges from day 1, and then in an increasing fashion increase them so that when they reach adulthood they do not shrink from real life. But that's easier said than done.

As for the black hole, I agree, and to be honest it's 12 years 'at the very least', because then you have college - a waste I know - followed by university etc, and those eat your years as well.

Do you even get an opportunity to grow as a person in our current system where you're forced to memorise instead of learning?

>>19623354
>Perhaps it is more prudent to give children challenges from day 1, and then in an increasing fashion increase them so that when they reach adulthood they do not shrink from real life. But that's easier said than done.
Every Asian parent already does this
>Do you even get an opportunity to grow as a person in our current system where you're forced to memorise instead of learning?
Absolutely the opportunity is always there.

>>19617644
>Goldberg

>>19620580
irl smug ꜱoyjak

>>19623416
> Every asian parent already does it
Good point, then the answer lies somewhere else I guess.

>>19623354
I mean, they don't want you to grow. It would be detrimental for those in the ruling class to have a batch of capable adults who could seize the opportunity to turn the tide and take matters into their own hands.
So instead, you keep them as eternal children. The children being dependent on a parent, or in more general terms, a nanny to take care of them, otherwise they would be facing death. The nanny itself could be the state, megacorps, multinational agencies, your employer...etc, depending on where you're located and how well you fared.
The best part about these so-called kids? They pay for you to take care of them. It's a deal that comes straight out of a dream if you're in a position of power. Just give them their toys and they'll be fine.
So all in all, people no longer feel the need to grow up, and the nation doesn't need you to grow up either.

This is literally no different from how children are viewed today. In fact you have it all backwards. A teen has the legal freedom of a toddler in 2021, but in the 1920's they were considered grown ass men.

>>19617609
It started with the Greeks as the young gods outshined the old gods. Ancestor worship and emphasis of learning from the past was replaced with what the future would bring and an emphasis on “the wonder child,” a term from John David Ebert. The cult of the dead and a belief of an afterlife beyond ours was replaced with young technological innovators.

>>19624085
Why does reading this hurt so much?

>>19624465
At least it shows some recognition that old ways, and I mean in the sense that Greeks viewed even older ways, fail to work in current situations. The ancestor cult is not one of adaptation and innovation, but the cult of the child is little more than a half baked response to improved healthcare and sanitation.

>>19623138
These are the consequences of eliminating Child Labor.

>>19617609
Childhood is sacred, but they are not fully developed human beings, and I don’t think anyone actually believes that they are or can do no wrong.
In childhood one has the fresh spark of life pessimism and nihilism has beaten into a pulp, so maybe you’re just noticing the adults who want to keep that spark going, and your reaction is veiled jealousy.

Fusing what you once were, how you once felt, with the capable and responsible adult is best, but as well noted here >>19624085 the elites don’t want a society of well rounded capable adults.

>>19624613
You tell us why.

>>19624643
Childhood is a state of blissful ignorance, a carefully crafted lie shielded from realities of the world, and in that lie humans flourish thinking that the world is sunshine and rainbows; and when they're proven otherwise they shrink back or turn into screeching harpies who want to bring down the social order without any sort of plan beyond the "I just want to ruin you for fucking up my ignorant world".

Nihilism and pessimism is just a reaction of a weak mind - that no doubt grew up in the conditions explained above, being shattered by the antagonistic aspect of life. "What's the point in trying if "it" punches back?". It's not the discussion I want to enter because it doesn't even apply to children before they're hurled into the "trial by fire" we call the adult life.

Whatever foundation that was sowed in order to create this "childhood worship" is sure as hell faulty, or has been corrupted along the way.

>>19624625
Would you mind expanding that statement? Seems interesting enough but I don't quite get your angle.

>>19624712
>It's not the discussion I want to enter
Way to dodge the question, bro.

>>19624625
i agree. i'm third worlder, and many kids started doing odd jobs and hustling at age 11-12. they're doing well financially these days, considering the current unemployment crisis. they learned how to do business and how to carry themselves through acquiring a lot of experience over the years, and they end up doing a hell of a lot better than dudes with a master's degree sitting on their asses watching anime all day.

>>19620580

Insane gibberish

>>19624712
Ignorance isn’t a lie. We go our whole lives ignorant of plenty.
The world is bathed in sunshine and our eyes are dazzled with rainbow and more. “Social order” are lies fed to the children to spoil their life, douse their spark. Layers of lies may peel back later in life and they become upset and behave just like you are now. A weak mind can grow still, and grow well if they can recall that original state well enough.

>>19617609
Barthes has an essay on this topic in "Mythologies"

>>19624911

Your womb is dark and dry with cobwebs, but we will try and my virility will prevail over your aged wretchedness. And you will poop out an ugly retard autist. And God will laugh, and I will laugh, and fuck you bitch

>>19624922
>Your womb is dark and dry with cobwebs,
And this scares you?

>>19624948

I'm not fucking scared of women bitch

>>19624911
The world isn't bathed in sunshine, you need only to open your eyes to see that injustice is being done on all levels of life; be it societal or the one beasts experience in the wilds. For the longest while, in order for the west to live in it's amazingly bloated well-being, the rest of the world had to suffer as western overlords extracted resources. For the longest time, the easiest strategy in the wilds was to go for the easy pickings; old, young, weak females etc.

Ignorance is weakness, a state that corrupts you into believing that which will never go beyond wishful thinking, and as you grow in your corrupted shell you eventually mature in a way that makes you inherently ill suited for this life. Ignorance consumes you, and children are perhaps the ones who it preys upon the best. At least adults - proper adults and not the overgrown manchildren/womenchildren - have the potential to wrestle with ignorance to the best of their ability. What can a child do but stick a finger in its ass?

A human's original state is weakness due to ignorance. Looking back at that state thinking that it's original, that it's superior and that nothing is better than it is inherently limiting because you're looking back a dumb little being. Forget the past. Look ahead, that's where all the answers are, and consequently that's also where the adulthood is.

>>19624872
Not a question and if you unironically believe that criticising current childhood is equal to nihilism, then you and I have nothing to discuss.

>>19620635
Don't hate them. Also, I'm sorry man it'd be very hard to have access to such easy sex.

>>19625010
>Why isn’t there an animal court, mommy? That leopard eated the baby gazelle! It’s not fair!
It’s well enough lit to prove the earth is bathed in sunlight. You’ve been raised wrong. Think back earlier. Ignorance is just ignorance. You may learn something that is a hinderance on your shoulders… we’re talking about some of that now. But I say the lies are a more dangerous burden to carry. Good luck learning to unlearn and to remember that blissful state so you can take it with you in all your Nows to come.

>>19625093
>Ignorance is to be embraced! Don't think, thinking is bad, bask in muh "sunshine" and be a 'forever child'!

I accept your concession.

>>19625282
Naw. Didn’t mean that at all. One can’t know everything, but you can’t help but learn as you age.
Now learn that you’ve taken in a great amount of lies