/lit/ - Literature

first for zyzz

Silverbergo

First Contact, Digital Science Fiction Anthology 1 - Jessi Hoffman, editor (2011)

It would be reasonable to think that this would be about first contact with aliens based on the title and the cover, but that'd be wrong. There are aliens, but the more important first contact tends to be of the empathetic sort. A meeting of minds, for better and worse. This reminds of when I read the Alien Sex anthologies, which would've been more accurately called Alienated Sex.

How I Lost Eleven Stone and Found Love - Ian Creasey
The protagonist has an alien pet that sucks out his fat. His love interest finds the sucking to be highly erotic.
Meh

Biting a Dead Man’s Hand - Ed Greenwood
In 1816, the powers of Europe gather to watch a demonstration of a flying ship, then they begin dying. I found the story to be rather incongruous. It's somewhat strange for me to read a story like this from Greenwood.
Meh

The Caretaker - Ken Liu
At first it was mildly reminiscent of Ted Chiang's "Dacey's Patent Automatic Nanny" that was published in the same year. By the end it had much more in common with Samanta Schweblin's "Little Eyes", which was published several years later. A robot takes care of a disabled elderly man.
Ok

Masks - Jennifer R. Povey
Planet of the Furs. As with apes, but with a different animal. Nothing is explained in the slightest. It's just how the world is.
Ok

Hera’s Tempest - Rob Jacobsen
A sociopath confronts an immobile half-human/half-machine murderer. I laughed.
Ok

Roanoke, Nevada - Edward J. Knight
The US government has been hiding aliens for decades, but now they're dying and neither the aliens nor the humans have any idea why. A microbiologist is brought in and he conducts a methodical epidemiological study. I'm conflicted about the ending.
Enjoyable

Nectar of the Gods - Jessi Rita Hoffman
What if all the conspiracies were true? You don't believe them? You better, you're one of them. It's rather hamfisted in its presentation, but I still chuckled a few times.
Ok

The Tortoise Parliament - Kenneth Schneyer
This is a consideration of the difficulties a galactic confederation faces in a universe where messages take decades to arrive at the galactic parliament. The story takes place mostly through parliamentary proceedings. I'll have to read more from this author as he could be one that I particularly enjoy.
Highly Enjoyable

Black Sun - David Tallerman
I wasn't expecting this to be horror based on how it started, but that worked as well. I found his voice to be interesting. It reminded me of a mix of golden age SF, classic anime, and a few other media. Based on his website, that's about right. I'll look into his work more, but this may be an outlier as it relies a lot on my specific personal history.
Enjoyable

Pop Quiz - Curtis James McConnell
Reminded me of the Voigt-Kampff test from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by PKD, though in this case for detecting an alien species. A very humorous ending.
Enjoyable

Just started another attempt to read Malazan. My last attempt was roughly 7 years ago and I got to book 6 before quitting. Every time I finish a book and the cast completely changes it annoys me. Hopefully I can push through this time.

>>19616316
Since it completely changes, why not start at book 7?

>>19616318
Perhaps I didn't use the right word there. I think book seven returns to the cast of one of the earlier books and, at this point, I remember very little of those books.
And it's not as if I disliked the books. It's just they take a bit of time before they hook me.

i finished all the dune books now. why are the last two so god damn boring?

>>19616334
It's more of a prevention from falling into an endless loop of reading the first several books over and over again. Probably be better to read summaries or something else that sums it up. You'll remember or you won't.

>>19616316
Reminds me of Homestuck (even book 6 = act 6, where most people quit due to a new cast).

>>19616243
You should rename these generals to "Speculative Fiction General". Sounds more serious but it'd also allow room for horror. Let's be real, the reason this isn't called "Genre Fiction General" is because we don't want romances or thrillers in here.

>>19616337
an anon in the previous thread said he enjoyed the last two for their additional world building. if I wasn't too busy watching the Matrix 4 in IMAX and reading shit about it on /tv/ I would have finished Children of Dune tonight, which I'm really struggling through. I've got maybe 100 pages to go and Leto is now getting stoned on spice but man everything up to that part was boring as shit. I just want to get to God Emperor

>>19616435
>he enjoyed the last two for their additional world building
i agree with this to a degree, however some of the interesting concepts are totally ignored for focusing on other boring shit
>but man everything up to that part was boring as shit.
very much agree with this. i really dont get what people who really like children enjoy so much about it, maybe when i re-read it in 100 years
>I just want to get to God Emperor
it's worth the work, trust the plan

Hard magic systems are the only acceptable magic systems. Soft magic systems don't even deserve the name, they're just a flimsy pretext for asspulls.

>>19616316
>Malazan
I know nothing about this series, but wow the page count on those books is... bloated. Why the fuck are those books so long? Doesn't writing tend to be just a lot of repeating the same thing over and over when you get to that point? Some of those books are over 1200 pages for christ sake. You can fit 3 novels in that.

>>19616432
The only way to ensue the changes you want come true is to make the threads yourself forever.

>>19616466
Because EVERY book completely drops the characters and plotlines of the previous book and introduces an entirely new cast of characters and plotlines, only to have the characters from 3 books back show up and do some bullshit tangentially related to what they were doing three books ago.
It's terrible. It's like reading something written by a teenager.

>>19616481
Well the author is Canadian

>>19616498
grim

>>19616337
The last two books are only boring if you consider them boring. I like them a lot.

>>19616506
not in an accusatory way, but what do you like a lot with them?

>>19616457
what do you mean by "hard" and "soft"? as in, hard magic is "decently explained" by the author, e.g. Bakker's magic system with philosophy of language and intention and semantics and whatever the hell he was going for, I don't have a BA in philosophy

>>19616514
World building mostly. Heretics+chapterhouse I loved Miles Teg and Duncan Idaho. The actions scenes were good. Skipping the major battles was the biggest gripe, such as Teg's capture of the no-ship was off page and the... you know.... thing about Arrakis blowing up happens between chapters. For me though, Miles Teg makes this book good. He's this perfect grizzled commander with a lot of gravitas.

The Bene Gesserit really are heavily explored in Heretics and especially chapterhouse. Lot's of world building. Everything from politics, economics, to more ecology and even cooking is explored. It's very interesting to me. I can see who people would find the chapters to be a slog.

The honored matres and the people of the scattering and the mystery there kept me hooked. The war between bene gesserit and honored matres felt very large scale compared to the rest of dune saga. I liked that.

Some of my favorite aspects though was the Bene Tleilax. I never was a big fan of the Tleilaxu, but Waff is awesome. I loved learning more about their faction and culture. This is where you realize how based they are.

>>19616457
'Magic system' is a paradox

>>19616521
My understanding was that Hard means that the rules are not just explained but the book has to consistently adhere to it's in-universe rules. Soft is when there isn't a specific rule to adhere to so you can just imagine it yourself.

>>19616575
>to more ecology
honestly maybe this is why im so assblasted. kynes is easily one of my favorite characters, so the concept of terraforming chapterhouse got me really excited, and while i think its talked about ENOUGH, i really just wish it was more in depth, it was something i was really interested in
>Some of my favorite aspects though was the Bene Tleilax.
honestly thats a really good point you made me think about, seeing more about them was really cool, i really liked scytale in chapterhouse as just a general schemer

i think that was one aspect of chapterhouse i enjoyed a lot was the scheming of everybody on the no-ship, shame how their plan ends on a cliffhanger, and its a shame how theres no other dune books in existence and will never exist to give some closure
at least i can imagine an ending

>>19616243
Is there any steampunk that isn't trash? I'm coming off an Arcane bender and I've read a fuckton in the past, and I seems most steampunk is Gary Stu/Mary su garbage.

In short: anything like arcane out there? I need more

>>19616631
>Is there any steampunk that isn't trash?
no

>>19616637
Ok drop the genre fiction; keep in line with the cute, schizo main character.

>>19616631
I don't know about Arcane, but I remember enjoying the Dragons of Dorcastle by Campbell awhile back. It has steampunk and some magic elements.

>>19616631
I don't know if they're trash because I haven't read them, but if you don't mind short fiction you can try reading: The Mammoth Book of Steampunk or The Mammoth Book of Steampunk Adventures.

Is Ilium any good?

>>19616521
Hard magic is in essence an additional set of natural forces, obeying clear-cut and unchanging laws and limitations. If you know all the preconditions, it allows you to predict the effects of magic upon the world with scientific precision. Soft magic is just bullshitting around and making things up as you go along. That's why hacks like to use it.

>>19616622
checked

>scheming
I unironically can't follow all of the scheming going on in Children of Dune right now, I'll take any help I can get, please don't spoil anything else for me

Alia: well she's basically the Baron now and the Baron wants the Atreides dead, so that's easy

Leto: don't over-spoil it for me as I'm not done the book yet but Leto wants to correct whatever Paul fucked up... seems like Leto wants to act as a Platonic "Philosopher King" - know everything and rule over everyone. He'll claim he's got everyone's best interests in mind while he rules the galaxy as a "benevolet despot..This is what I'm assuming is the case by the way, I obviously have no idea how things play out in God Emperor

Jessica: She's seemingly in on the plot to drug Leto and therefore make him "godlike", so she's doing what? Following the Bene Gesserit way to make the Kwisatz Haderach but instead of doing it through Paul she's doing it through Leto? Why is she even being captured by Farad'n? Why is she training Farad'n?

Farad'n / House Corrino: They just want the Atreides dead

>>19616657
Exact opposite. Truly talented authors such as Tolkien use "soft" magic. Or at least never bother to fully explain the rules to the reader. It's hacks like Sandershit that use hard magic systems.

>>19616657
hard magic is just as phony as soft magic you dingus. it's all made up, every second of every scene is an illusion. it's not real.

good writing can make anything work

>>19616672
This entirely depends on the centrality of magic to a story. If the magic is critical then "hard" magic is better. If magic is secondary then soft magic systems are superior. Plenty of hacks use magic to bullshit their way out of plotholes and autists will endlessly explain their magic systems that have no effect on nor relevance to the story.

>>19616670
you're basically correct. i'd say you're only """wrong""" about leto but everything involving his plan at that moment is intentionally vague so it's pretty easy to come to that conclusion

>>19616688
brando sando

>>19616653
It's not as good as first two books of Hyperion, but it's not as bad as second two. I'd say its mostly okay, and main problem with is is it feels like author planned to have trilogy but then decided to quickly wrap it up at book 2 for some reason.

>>19616692
He is guilty of being a rules retard in some of his novels, but for others you need a framework for the story to make sense.

>>19616688
Even if magic is central to the story, I disagree. As long as the author properly set up certain spells or whatever prior to using magic to solve a problem, then there is still no need for hard magic. This kinda thing only becomes an issue when the author begins to whip out new magic to solve problems again and again.

>>19616690
thanks, I am pressing on

>>19616243
Halo CE was the best Halo

>>19616670
Pay attention to the spice drugging plot. Alia yep. You pretty much have it right about Leto. Jessica is definitely one of the more complex characters in the book. She felt in danger on Dune concerning Alia after meeting the twins. She wanted to infiltrate Corrino because Farad'n had been trained his whole life to basically ursurp the throne. They had ongoing plot (planned by his mother), to kill the twins. Remember the cats? However, Jessica realizes she can manipulate Farad'n. You basically get the idea that Farad'n doesn't really give a shit about doing what his mother expects of him.

>>19616631
>I'm coming off an Arcane bender
The only way I managed to get off mine was riding it off. Surprisingly the cyberpunk genre has many stories that fit a similar vibe, but I didn't find any to fill the arcane shaped hole in my heart

https://www.brandonsanderson.com/state-of-the-sanderson-2021/

Summary:
Most series will have a co-writer
More audio original releases
Stormlight Five Release Date: Christmas 2023-Spring 2024
Wheel of Time TV Series: I don’t agree with all of the decisions made in the creation (and it includes some content that I find objectionable.)
I’m still developing (in a hands on way) a Mistborn feature film.
I’ve been working very hands-on in creating the Stormlight Archive as a premium cable television show.
I’ve been working on a video game for several years, and I suspect it will be announced this year. It’s not for one of my properties.
Licensed merch galore
More kickstarters
More Youtube projects

>>19616851
Sanderhack's successfully turned his career as a YA author into a Disnified giga-franchise. He must be raking in the cash. Wish someone else, who shall not be named, had that kind of self-confidence.

>>19616851
What is the content he finds objectionable?

Nietzschian philosophy deluxe edition

>>19616884
>selling his soul to make bland, crowd pleasing products
a fate worse than death

>>19616884
Perhaps someone else who shall not be named understands that he won't be able to have any more monster rape in his books if his franchise becomes big and universally known, which might be a deal breaker.

>>19616884
>had that kind of self-confidence.
Its called Mormon schmooze, only the Jews do it better.

>>19616890
I don’t think he says

>>19616890
They make some fundamental changes to the setting, such as that souls can reincarnate as either male or female and still retain their power

>>19616657
This sounds like adequate explanation. I think the best case scenario is when both magic systems get mixed, so there are still rules and it is generally understood but also there is some mystery too it and some of can't be explained

REMINDER
it also has best the magic system

>>19616688
>If the magic is critical then "hard" magic is better.
No. You are not taking in to account what the theme might be. For example you might, in your fictional world, have magic as very real but also not fully accounted for within the understanding of the people in that setting. Think of how contested advanced physics is, it is almost entirely experimental with some theories being beyond our current ability to even experiment on.

Just because it is "magic" doesn't mean it need be a privileged domain of knowledge. People functioned for most of history in relative ignorance.

>>19616521
Generally, I think it has to do with rules and structure.

It can run a gambit, from magic in near normal settings taking elaborate and precise ritual just to do little things IDK, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or some shit to Dragonball Z where the characters basically become gods via plot progression.

Harry Potter has a formal magic education system but a pretty soft magic system. Soft magic tends to lead to plot contradictions, for example, why not use the time reversing hourglass from book 3 to beat Voldemort.

>>19616521
Bakker's magic is soft, in that he doesn't set how hard set rules on how it works or spend a ton of time explaining it, but is described as a hard system. That is, there definitely are rules, you just don't get a ton of insight into them.

And the rules for mortals, even non-men aren't the rules for the Gods or the Dunyain.

I do like having little magic negating trinkets that people can wear to shield themselves against magic and kill magic users, makes them a little less op.

>>19617191
>adapt a work as one of your first prestige projects for your streaming service
>hand it over to some queer who doesn't even believe in the original work's basic themes and concepts
Why are faggots like this?

>>19617592
Speaking of powerful magic users at the end of Bakker:

Do we have a good indication how powerful the other Dunyain are? We know they have magic because one grabs Kelmomas with it to throw him into the No God. They also all appear to be physically pretty wrecked but they mention having killed the original human Consult master for disagreeing with them, and they have the Inchori and rest of the Consult acting like betas to them, so it would appear they outmatch what were previously the most powerful sorcerers in the world.

But where does this leave them relative to Kellhus, who had several more years? Kellhus is obviously Goku status now, fucking up an Incohri with a space laser easily. However, when he overcomes his brothers he does so by channeling Ajokli, not on his own.

In any event, it doesn't seem clear how advanced the other are. Kellhus himself unlocked the metagnosis teleportation right away, but it sounds like he didn't go off to the Outside till a good deal later, so maybe his powers took a long time to mature. Otherwise, why not just go alone to the Golden Room and kill the Consult yourself two decades ago? Unless he wants the No God out, which maybe he does.

Maybe Cnauir can kill him with Ajokli powers now too. I can't forgive him for Proyas so fuck Kellhus.

>>19616243
Did Bakker-anon finally get banned by Jannies or something? There's a disturbing lack of Bakker shilling on the past few threads; not that I complain, just curious.

>>19617230
surely even people who hate the admittedly poor translated prose and evil protagonist can admit the magic system is great

>>19617633
There really isn't Bakker shilling, it seems Bakker is simply really good and really obscure. See: https://youtu.be/aspwxl6Cyzw

>>19617645
I don't understand how can anyone hate FY? I cannot think of a better and more engaging protagonist in any (power) fantasy series. In fact most protagonists in fiction are just garbage compared to FY.

Kindgood

>>19617633
The inchoroi lied to us about the Author-Prophet’s return, so now we’ve all gotten depressed and have withdrawn to our hidden citadels. Also, the real Bakkerfags (not the fake “ironic” spam shills) are all fans of other writers and series, so likely our kind has been discussing those in the absence of anything new to say about Eärwa.

>>19616653
Yes. Especially if you have any knowledge of the myth of the Trojan War. Some of the side plots are a little distracting since they're only tangentially related to the main plot, but it's still a good story.

What are your thoughts on this? I was recommended this because I liked Nier: Automata, but when it comes to literature I'm a bit of a snob, and the first few chapters are not looking good. Should I keep reading?

>>19617230
>magic system
hard pass

>>19618660
>Fantasy general
>no magic allowed

>>19618639
> I liked Nier: Automata
Have tou read the Nier Automata novel?

>>19618676
fantasy employs magic as a narrative device
magic "systems" are for RPGs

>>19618731
Only garbage tier fantasy has no magic system of any kind and only the magic narrative.

>>19618694
No, I didn't know it existed until now.

>>19618789
I haven't read it either, but I know it exists and if you're a big fan of the games it might interest you. Not high literature in any sense, probably LN tier (I think it is a LN actually) but it's related to the games

>>19618774
Ah yes, LOTR the classic garbage tier fantasy

>>19618774
I'm either being trolled or you're an unironic sandershit fan

>>19618774
Hahahahahahaha
fucking zoomer retards don’t even know how retarded they sound

>>19618830
Yes, so much magic and none if it explained, wizards just pulling miracles out of their asses

anyone know where to find a pdf of the chapter guide of book of the new sun? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I have lexicon urthus, solar labyrinth but I can't find the chapter guide. It's not important enough that I'd buy it but I wanna check it out regardless

>>19617230

>>19617633
I reported a bunch of the most braindead spammers a few threads ago, so maybe

>>19618676
Magic systems demystify magic.
If you manage to have soft magic without it becoming a cheap mcguffin or a frequent deus ex machina it is the most mystical and fun to read magic, see Earthsea.
If you have super hard magic systems like Sandersneed they become like buttons you can press on a hotbar to do a spinning dragon slash +3, it takes all of the wonder out of the spells and leads to "can Superman beat Goku" tier discussions

>>19618935
Ah, so this is bait. Took me long enough to figure out. Good bait

>>19619005
so it is best to have a healthy balance of both

I'm about two thirds of the way through the first Dune book. Why are there so many chapters with conversations between two characters where they can read each others' minds and intentions? It seems like an autist's power fantasy. Also can Herbert make up his mind whether there is steel in people's voices or iron? He can't keep it consistent even in the same chapter.

>>19619050
it's best to keep things loosely defined and mostly consistent. most importantly though : adjacency with video games means a story will be perceived as having less artistic merit

>>19619062
Dune is set like 12,000 years after even humanity's space age, if I remember right. Computers aren't allowed; the whole focus of the series is on furthering the strength of the human mind and body. Technology isn't the most important sci fi of this sci fi book, the people are. This becomes a lot more obvious as the (Frank H. written) series progresses.

You can see this in things like Mentats, Bene Gesserit truthsaying and the control of their entire bodies down to even being able to choose if their child is a boy or a girl, prescience being thanks to the mind/drugs and not any sort of tech, Honored Matre sex slavery, genetic memories, axolotl tanks being actual human women, face dancer hive mind, and last but not least, chairdogs

How do you think King's Landing will go up in flames in the books? It's been building up since the second book but I'm thinking somehow the Greyscale Epidemic is going to play a role in it, maybe Joncon invades King's Landing trying to sack it for Aegon, and a small team try and detonate the fire underneath the keep. I think they'll conveniently discover that wildfire is also the cure for Greyscale or a way to stop it spreading.

>look at hugo 2021 lists
>don't recognize a single work or author

who in the everloving fuck reads this crap? I can tell just by looking it's all hot garbage. when did sci fi become a girls club patting each other on the back for being/writing about niggers and troons?

>>19619127
Hard magic system does not necessarily mean litrpg or gamelit. A rank one wizard is below a rank two wizard, this is already hard magic system. In an undefined system wizards can do pretty much whatever they want and they follow almost no logic, that is why it is so stupid, and in fact it only shows deficiency of the writer because he could not write a good story based in real world and therefore had to borrow elements of supernatural to make it work.

>>19619164
I guess, but isn't reading other people's reactions an interpretive exercise? Knowing my own body and mind and being able to control both doesn't mean that I can understand others.

>>19619164
>Computers aren't allowed; the whole focus of the series is on furthering the strength of the human mind and body. Technology isn't the most important sci fi of this sci fi book, the people are
so discard technology which after 12000 years of advancement could improve human body and mind 1000 times and instead focus on people "people".
Garbage.

>>19619182
Hugo 2023 will be held in China.

>>19619050
Its a matter of taste and skill. The author should know the benefits and drawbacks of each system.
I have never seen hard magic in a truly good book while soft magic is the status quo, but I did think that multi viewpoint narratives are superior to single character until I read New Sun aswell, so perhaps there is some killer book with hard magic out there.

>>19619328
Pffffttttt hahahahha

Any of you niggas read Greg Egan?

Also, I just started on Asimov's foundation series. Breddy gud

>>19619636

Have only read Diaspora, making my way through Luminous, great short story collection so far. I'm getting the impression Egan is more of a bigger ideas guy, and character development is secondary or third priority. I'm enjoying how he's so detailed regarding world building and everything is just his characters reacting to this hypothetical, or futurist possible reality.

>>19619655
>Egan is more of a bigger ideas guy, and character development is secondary or third priority.

Very much so. Permutation City is also well worth the read.

>>19619182
>filtered by the presentation and the identities of the people involved
>no real experience with or apprehension of the actual content
this is idpol anon
that's the kind of person you are

>>19619186
the idea that such a thing as a magic system could impose anything on the story is fucking stupid. remember that both the story and the system are contrivances. the author can simply add new rules or invalidate or outright break existing ones.

now if your "system" emanates from the story itself and is derived by participants trying to make sense of something they don't completely understand, it's probably fine. if your world has wizard power levels then it 100% is litrpg or gamelit even if you don't market it as such or employ the terminology.

>>19619829
>only women with the right politics win
>noticing this and being skeptical makes you an ideologue
i fucking love women, they are so fucking badass!!!!!

>>19619863
>now if your "system" emanates from the story itself and is derived by participants trying to make sense of something they don't completely understand, it's probably fine.
Ofcourse this is probably one of the best ways to achieve balance between defined magic system and undefined

>>19619881
sure, probably
maybe some of these books are actually good though
there is clearly no good reason to insist otherwise and plenty of bad ones (eg being dumb, an incel, a /pol/fag, all of the above)

>>19619942
>nooo you must accept my hierarchical framework in all aspects of life or you're a polfag

>>19619999
>nooo you can't call me out on my inane bullshit and internalized victim complex I have the RIGHT politics
not checked. unworthy post

>>19619942
>maybe some of these books are actually good though
the original comment was criticizing the politicization of awards, not the books. go concern troll elsewhere

>>19620013
Tranny found

>>19620013
Show me where on the doll heteronormitivity touched you

By the way, the big news about Bakker is that he’s fucking dead.

>>19618977
wtf is this shit? what is self pubbed?

>>19620197
The chad self-published vs the virgin found a (((publisher)))

>>19616243
In the honor of the recently deceased Bakker-Spammer - probably died because he gigavaxxed, I shall do that one thing he want us all to do:

>King

>>19620025
>I can tell just by looking it's all hot garbage.
dull memelord

>>19620209
>king
But that's not Terry Goodkind

>>19620299
GodKing has left this gay earth, Bakker is still fighting on therefore Bakker>Godking

>>19619182
The Hugo's have been worthless garbage for some 10 years by now, it really shouldn't come as a surprise. Did you already forget about Jemisin being voted into winning best novel three times in a row for literally no other reason than to stick it to the puppies? The award could never possibly recover from that. At this point it borders on anti-recommendation. You are best advised to disregard anything that shows up on the Hugo slate and look elsewhere.

>>19620708
it has been trash ever since they gave it to Orson Shitt Card 2 years in a row. you're angry cause it's a fat black lady now

>2001 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
>2002 American Gods
you people are so fucking transparent lmao

>>19620825
Speaker for the Dead deserved the win and Ender's Game is at least a perfectly fine YA novel.

>>19620209
This faggot keeps introducing cool characters then killing rhen immediately.

>>19620863
be honest with yourself. both of those books are as mediocre as broken earth. take it from someone who actually read both

>>19620830
Nobody has claimed that the Hugo's have always selected the perfect most deserving winners before the dark times came, yet even so these two are downright masterpieces compared to the drivel that crowds the candidate lists of today.

>>19620830
>2001 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
>2002 American Gods
>Still better than any of the shit out currently.
What point are you even trying to make?

>>19620900
which ones have you read
please don't dodge the question again

Ender's Game is great and y'all are fags.

Name one (1) award worth more than this post

>>19620927
this website is 18+

>>19620933
To completition? All the ones mentioned from before the 2010's. Yes, including Harry Potter, American Gods, the Ender quartet and a whole bunch of other old Hugo winners. Did I finish reading Jemisin's work? Of fucking course not, even as someone who read Harry Potter, I value my time on Earth more than THAT.

>please don't dodge the question again
>again
What are you even talking about? Are you confusing me with some other anon? I can already tell you are a troon discussing in bad faith anyway.

>>19621019
in other words, none of them

I'm not super interested in defending Jemisin. Broken Earth was pretty dull and passably competent. she's a storied grandmaster in comparison to Rowling however. you must have read Harry Potter as a child

>What are you even talking about? Are you confusing me with some other anon?
does it matter? you have the exact same personality

>>19620992
>unable to get at least dubs on a slow board like /lit/
weak

>>19621080
>she's a storied grandmaster in comparison to Rowling however

>>19621140
>actually defending that shitty YA lottery winner

>>19621163
I'm not defending Jemisin though. Fucking 'storied grandmaster' lmao. Maybe you could call someone like Tolkien that with a straight face. Not the 'oh thank god we've found a black good enough to pile with awards' author who has created nothing to substance or value.

I'd probably have to re-read Emphyrio to be certain but this might now be my favourite Vance book. It's everything I love about Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga crammed into 173 pages, plus a masterful couple of final chapters to wrap it all up

>>19621215
have you never seen someone use hyperbole in comparison before. it's a figure of speech

why would I call Jemisin a "storied grandmaster" immediately after saying her books are dull and passably competent. do I really have to spoonfeed you motherfuckers everything

>>19621244
Jemisin is no better a writer than rowling, unless you think her stories worse than dull and middling, at which point you're not being serious. Funnily enough rowling didn't win multiple hugos in a row. Really gets the noggin joggin as to why.

As the hyperbolic autism, rowling is middling at least, so calling Jemisin a grandmaster even in comparison is saying that she is well above the norm, which I don't think she is. You only said some of her books were dull too, no mention of her as an author overall.

>>19621285
fine, it really doesn't matter all that much which one is worse. neither authors have produced anything even remotely close to deserving a "best book of the year" award. I could go into detail as to what's wrong with Broken Earth but the fact is that nothing about it is as evidently terrible as you've insinuated and, knowing what I know about 4chan habituals, it's far more likely that you people object to those books on ideological grounds than on anything relating to artistic merit.

it's possible and even likely that the Hugo awards have a major progressive bias especially seeing as they are a cynical hype farm at this point (and have been for decades) and being woke is commercially prudent.

despite that, a good chunk of the finalists from 2010 onward are actually worth reading. they get implicated into this shit as a matter of incidence. you've beaten it into your mind that they must suck as a matter of necessity and seeing as you've not fucking read any of them I can't think of any reason as to why other than the fact that they're adjacent to the sort of idpol you personally don't like.

I don't know what to say other than try and stop being a cringe /pol/tard. read something outside of your comfort zone without the expectation that it'll suck. I used to be exactly like you and I got over it. it's not hard. I'm going back to my liquor now.

WorldCon, the convention where the Hugo Awards are presented, apologizes for accepting money from the unacceptable.
https://twitter.com/worldcon2021/status/1474104206839660544

>>19621428
>being woke is commercially prudent
The rise of woke orthodoxy in publishing and consequently awards has nothing at all to do with commercial prudence and everything to do with feminist missionaries simply hijacking the field. The generations of young women who dedicated themselves to gender studies in college had to end up somewhere and unsurprisingly they swamped media. From there it's just a vicious cycle where woke zealots force out people not to their liking, which in turn disincentivizes anyone who isn't on board with the woke agenda to try and enter the field. There are some other factors too, of course. As reading has become less popular of a pastime in general compared to television and games, it has become both less prestigious and less financially rewarding to work in publishing, which contributes to ambitious men avoiding the field too. But overall it's clear to me that the story of the woke shift is mainly one of the successful capture of a cultural insitution by partisan forces, partly by accident and partly by design. The hardcore feminist bias of the Hugos merely reflects this capture.

>>19621471
>accepting funding from Raytheon has caused harm and damage to people
Like what?

>>19621545
Their bottom line

>>19621495
there is always so much that's abstracted behind "not being on board with the woke agenda", or any other formulation of the idea that the principles being repressed are, in actuality, benign and/or morally justifiable. as it happens that is rarely the case, at least from the perspective of people who do not need to go on 4chan to express themselves without consequences.

I think that you'll find there is no real barrier between you (and anyone like you) and a career in the field of publishing. like most gendered professions the list of factors that drive you away from or towards it is extremely vast.

the idea of an industry spanning feminist conspiracy is worthy of derision. this is a current and it's found wherever women are found. they are conditioned to think like this because it furthers their material interests. they put it into practice wherever they can. this culture war is being fought fairly and you are losing it.

lastly it appears that the Hugos don't reflect the industry in the slightest. people are still buying recognizable properties like Dune or Wheel of Time and/or commercial juggernauts like Sanderson and Rowling. it does not have that sort of cultural influence.

>>19621571
I wouldn't be surprised if Sapkowski was currently outselling every Hugo finalist combined

>>19621571
The Hugos reflect what is allowed to be published in the mainstream and gain accolades right now. That older properties like Dune continue to be successful in spite of not meeting the new guards' feminist standards just shows that commercial prudence is only a secondary consideration when deciding who and what to publish from the presently available pool.

>the idea of an industry spanning feminist conspiracy is worthy of derision
Whether you want to call it a conspiracy (a term introduced by you btw) or whatever else, feminists have gained a stranglehold on most of the industry. And that such a stranglehold might exist is nothing new in itself. It wasn't so long ago that the Christian religion had the cultural power to set the overton window of what was acceptable and taboo to publish, regardless what might or might not have been more profitable. There was a short window in time when no religion enjoyed supremacy and now a new one is establishing itself right in front of our eyes. As is typical for religions, the moral or other qualities of whatever they try to repress are irrelevant to the decision to repress it. Heresy must be rooted out on principle for it threatens the religion's power grab. That you find this simple observation to be worthy of derision tells me more about your partisan allegiance and possibly faith than about the actual state of the world.

>>19621670
Just turn your brain off chud

>>19619208
> what is the Butlerian Jihad?

Do any of these faggots even remember that both the awards and nominations for the Hugos are voted on by readers? You can subscribe to whatever-magazine and get the packet if you want to vote. Several years ago, a bunch of them tried to nominate a slate of all white men, and the rest of the voters reacted to that by only nominating women for the past three years. Make of that what you will, but they lost.

>>19622055
The anon you're replying to is the kind of guy who will be catatonic with disbelief when he realizes his NFTs can't be used to buy bread.

>>19622060
white men vote women non-based sjw, communism when the nominate awards pozzed

>>19622168
feminsim nazi red hair tiktok, feminist classic jewish supreme

>>19622178
woke liberal conspiracy, cultural marxism civilized

I just finished this, what did I think?

>>19622055
>what is the Butlerian Jihad?
For anyone interested, this may have been the inspiration. It's never been explicitly stated, but consensus is that it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_among_the_Machines

"Darwin among the Machines" is an article published in The Press newspaper on 13 June 1863 in Christchurch, New Zealand, which references the work of Charles Darwin in the title. Written by Samuel Butler but signed Cellarius (q.v.), the article raised the possibility that machines were a kind of "mechanical life" undergoing constant evolution, and that eventually machines might supplant humans as the dominant species

and that was in 1863. What a guy. The entire article and more is worth a read.

just finished the Color of Magic, had a good time, which next?

>>19622060
The supply side shapes the demand side at least as much as the other way around. When authors with the "wrong" creeds writing the "wrong" things never get mainstream exposure in the first place and never get picked up by any big publishing house, they'll have a hard time winning any awards.

The puppies did not nominate white males exclusively by the way, not that it matters given their ultimate failure. Although they did manage to prod the Hugo hosts into changing the voting procedure for the sole purpose of nipping further uprisings in the bud.

>>19616350
So tell me /sffg/, what is holding Fantasy back from being deep, intellectually stimulating literature?

>>19622492
the fucking design-spec?
it isn't the point of fantasy to be deeply intellectually stimulating. it's there for a quick fix.
next, you'll be talking about women taking up leadership positions, when they're clearly designed for sexual pleasure and spankings.

>>19622492
Stop being such a fucking pseud. Fantasy is fun, killing orcs and goblins and overpowered godlike powers and shit.

>>19622064
I only hold stocks

>>19622313
The Light Fantastic if you want more of the same, or Mort/Small Gods/Guards Guards

>>19622501
Dangerously based

>>19622274
What did you think?
I dropped it midway first book, I can't remember why exactly but there was some serious issue that prevented me from reading further

>>19622520
I think you're cool anon have a nice day

How many pages should I read before dropping a book. I am on a 5th book already and 20 pages in I am not interested in it at all. I had no problem read through light novels. I expected a lot more from western fantasy literature but nothing has hooked me up so far

>>19622658
I'd read two chapters at least probably
20 pages is nothing and some good books start off awkwardly

Still struggling to get past the second page of BOTNS

>>19622682
Push through for the memes

trying to read tolkien after an 8 year period of reading shit fanfiction and stuff on royal road
I feel mentally retarded, my brain has deteriorated so much

Just finished this bros, I loved it, the classic PKD mindfuck and also pretty funny, especially the chapter titles.

Looking for a new SF book to read over the holidays

>>19616337
Man, if they're boring compared to the first few they must be really fucking boring

>>19622055
>Butlerian Jihad?
this is actually a brilliant plot device really<span class="fortune" style="color:#ec117e">

Your fortune: Happy Kwanzaa![/spoiler]

Bakker?<span class="fortune" style="color:#11ec7f">

Your fortune: Your heart is two sizes too small.[/spoiler]

As a ESL, Gardens of the Moon is pretty difficult to read tbdesu. Hope it gets easier and more fluid once I progress a bit further. Only 50ish pages in so far, but Erikson's prose *really* is something else.

>>19622925
It really isn’t. And this,is coming from an ESL as well. What’s your English level? B2?

Is Bakker alive?<span class="fortune" style="color:#ec7f11">

Your fortune: It's going to be a white Christmas![/spoiler]

>>19622925
>>19622932
It's easy enough to comprehend, but it's extremely dry and sterile. I've read news reports about labour strikes that have more going on.

Will the No-God ever be released?<span class="fortune" style="color:#ec117e">

Your fortune: Happy Kwanzaa![/spoiler]

>>19622932
Dunno really, maybe a good B2 or mediocre C1.

Maybe it's because I'm kind of new to fantasy lit and only read Sanderson before? Erikson's style is much more complex and requires a lot of attention it seems. I also have to re-read many sentences a page which slows down progress a lot.

Picrel is an example of a sentence I have yet to fully grasp. The fuck is meant with "drifting black down"? The pile of (black) bird shit is drifting? Or does drifting refer to the shadows inside the room?

>>19623013
down refers to the feathers on the underside of birds' wings.

>>19622658
my rule is i try to read to a third of the book to give it a chance. so if the book is 900 pages, for example, read until 300 before giving up

>>19623082
Aw fug, that makes sense. Thanks a lot Anon.

>>19622925
>>19623013
Erikson loves to start a sentence while concealing the subject that the sentence is actually about at the end of the paragraph. That leads to you rereading. It takes a bit of getting used to, especially with how dense these books are with lore. By book 2 you will have passed the filter.

Just bought this at Waterstones Piccadilly. What am I in for.

>>19616670
alright so I finally finished Children of Dune. overall the second half with Leto's transformation was certainly more enjoyable than the first half with just involves endless scheming by the characters e.g. Farad'n, etc. The biggest question I have actually goes back to Paul: (1) so basically Paul saw the Golden Path as one avenue to take humanity but for whatever reason he decided against it, and so it is Leto who is "brave enough" to follow the Golden Path? Is this ultimately what Paul got "wrong"? I mean I know he caused this Jihad to happen and millions/billions to die, but wasn't Paul's execution "the best path for humanity"? I guess not, since apparently the Golden Path is the best plan for humanity?

(2) how does Paul and Leto's prescience actually WORK? Rather than seeing only ONE path into the future (which would indicate we live in a totally deterministic universe), they see branches? I guess this is how the Spacing Guild Navigatiors work: they see the best "path" in space so they can avoid running into asteroids, planets, etc. And since Leto thinks the Golden Path is the best branch, so he takes actions in the present (e.g. he transforms himself) in order to bring the Golden Path to life?

(3) Leto is basically a psychological amalgamation of what? All of his past blood ancestors? And supposedly this "Harum" (which I read to be an old king/emperor/monarch of Earth) "grounds" his personalities? Since Leto has no single ego, who is talking when he speaks? Harum?

I am very excited for God Emperor and I'm going to go through it this week. merry Christmas sffg

>>19622312
Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad is never said to be ruled by sentient robots. Its about men using machines to control other men. Not terminator which is not interesting and makes for the most boring story. Basically all future science fiction writers have to figure out what to do with robots and AI. This was Franks way. Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson made HORRIBLE cashgrabs and cheapened everything Frank wrote by making it a Terminator story where you better make sure sure no robots survive or they will come back in 10k years. I've nearly read all of Sandworms of Dune after the slog that was Hunters of Dune. It's very very painful. I'm never going to read the prequels or stand alone books.

>>19623485
>Paul saw the Golden Path as one avenue to take humanity
so basically Paul saw that he would need to undergo the sandworm transformation to carry out the Golden Path which scared the hell out of him, hence him walking into the desert and leaving Leto to handle it

Prescience works where they can see many paths but by going along one path they lock out all the other ones this is also what scares Paul, since when he goes blind, he can only see the path that he has locked himself into. In contrast, Leto rarely checks every step of the path, he only just checks once in a while on the end result of the Golden Path, and if it hasn't changed he isn't concerned

Leto is technically an abomination, except he has a coalition of friendly ancestors like his father, grandfather, and Harum to help him deal with troublesome ancestors like the Baron and also provide him some guideance and a personality to deal with them, something Paul's sister did not have<span class="fortune" style="color:#fc2d53">

Your fortune: Happy Hanukkah![/spoiler]

>>19622312
>>19623519
like Leto says, the entire Butlerian Jihad comes down to the fact that men had surrendered their thinking to machines because they thought it would set them free, but it only allowed other men with machines to enslave them. It's why Leto is so big on not being dependent on things and being able to independently make decisions. honestly a pretty based sort of concept, in that a man must think for himself otherwise he will be slave to another

>>19623520
cheers thanks anon

one path anons: nothing outside of this single thread exists
Leto Anons: The Archive Exists and is Consulted

>>19623532
I look at it like ye ol argument of gun vs. man.
Frank be like
>man kills man
Brian and Kevin be like
>guns kill man

I really like the the way the 1984 lynch film TV prologue explains it along Frank's line of thought.
https://youtu.be/z7FcJwg6OkA

>>19623485
Yes it is explained that Paul saw the golden path and it frightened him. However, I do not think that was what really bothered him in Messiah. He was mostly dealing with guilt and his inability to connect with others. Chani was the one thing that kept him grounded. Without her he didn't even care. I honestly wish Paul died in the desert at the end of Messiah. I always thought his preacher arc sucked.
You have it write, prescience works allowing you to see multiple paths, but they have difficulty telling the difference between possible futures and reality. Paul explains over and over to Stilgar how difficult it can be to interpret. I believe Leto gained enhanced prescience because he limited so many potential futures with his empire. Remember, Leto early in Children explains to Ghani that they have other options. One being they can mary eachother and have a kid which they both don't want to do. The third option besides sandtrout escapes me.

>>19623520
I disagree on your take that Leto is an abomination. Ghani certainly is not as she never attempted to look where Alia looked with spice trance. Now, Alia's memories around the Baron is slightly inconsistent with book one. How could she have ancestral memories when she is supposed to have Reverend mother memories. I know Reverend mother memories in later books becomes completely a genetic memory thing, but in the first book it's just memory of prior reverend mothers. I believe this is a well documented inconsistency and one of the few inconsistencies in Frank's books. ANYWAY, I think Leto is not an abomination because he is male and he is able to look where Alia cannot without consequence.

Fantasy novels like Shadow of the Colossus?

>>19616316
Halfway through book seven. It's good, but not fantastic. Big as it is there's great parts (Coltaine's chain of dogs, Karsa Orlong, Reapers Gale) but there's also shit that just gets in the way and serves as clutter to the main story (that whole side thing with Icarium in Deadhouse Gates, whatever was going on with Burn in book three, the dozens of POV soldier characters, whatever the fuck was going on with the moon in Bonehunters). There's so many threads you're never going to follow them all.

Whats the most violent scifi or fantasy book youd recommend?

>>19623888
Broken empire trilogy i guess.

>>19623684
Answer>>19623940
Urverygood

These new covers are so ugly

>>19624266
>Now an original series on prime video
That'll draw in the readers.

>>19616243
I just read
Animal Farm, 5 stars
Brave New World, 4 stars
Fahrenheit 451, 3 stars
What should I read next? Doesn't have to be on the pic.

>>19619829
because it's all steaming hot shit. I would love to not have to discern in such a way, but current yearism loves to promote people who write about shallow surface level bullshit. White authors are more likely to write something that sells on their merit, on intelligent ideas or good writing-if the author is billed for being a black trans furry otherkin, chances are that's what their work is about. At this point awards are pozzed beyond recovery, ffs they pushed to remove John Campbell's name from his award after some ingrate bitch kvetched after winning it about him being "problematic". Imagine winning an award and instead of being greatful you shit on the person who the award is in honor of-it reeks of entitlement, narcissism, and yet is encouraged

most id based writing on the White side is shit as well, the thing is it's not winning awards or being praised by everyone who can manage to kiss ass

I just miss the way things were, when talented writing and interesting ideas were favored over these people who play oppression olympics. If you'll burn down a fandom and genre to "own the chuds", maybe you weren't much of a fan to begin with. Also it should be insulting to any minority author who actually has good ideas or can write, how these people weasel their way in and whine and cry until they get their way only to shit on everyone who was involved from the start

Gatekeeping is good and people should be wary of anyone attempting to tear it down and their motives

>>19620708
they really love gloating about how they "owned" the puppies and defeated the far right-all it cost was the fandom, sci fi literature, and what little prestige the awards surrounding both once had!

>>19622938
>>19622935
Bakker is dead at least desd to the world and we’ll never get any more books from him<span class="fortune" style="color:#ec117e">

Your fortune: Happy Kwanzaa![/spoiler]

>>19622682
the language is very complex and flowery but it's quite interesting. At first it didn't really pull me in, but if you read a few pages you'll probably start to appreciate the beauty that is the new sun

>>19624324
Delany - Trouble on Triton: An Ambiguous Heterotopia

>>19624395
I'm a transhumanist so I'll try it, but I'm pretty suspicious. Better be libgen.

>>19624324
Logan's Run is alright.<span class="fortune" style="color:#aa01d0">

Your fortune: Happy Festivus![/spoiler]

Anyone read the Axiom’s End sequel, Truth of the Divine? I liked the first one, but not a whole lot, and now my need to finish things compels me to read the sequel. How does is compare, quality wise?

Finished waytching the 2nd season of the Witcher series. If nothing else, it made me want to re-read the books to see if it actually as good as I remember
Anyways, Merry Christmas /sffg/!
<span class="fortune" style="color:#d0aa01">

Your fortune: Krampus is coming to your house![/spoiler]

>>19623480
Best book in the series, it's all downhill from there

>>19624675
Thanks fren. I was expecting that one to not be great... But I'll try it.

>>19623082
Birds have down all over, it keeps them warm

Good Yule and Merry Xmas, /sffg/!

<span class="fortune" style="color:#ec117e">

Your fortune: Happy Kwanzaa![/spoiler]

>>19624266
Just like the story, then.

I just finished the entire Culture series. Shame the author died. Any recommendations for other book series?

Is The Algebraist or Against a Dark Background worth reading? I enjoyed Feersum Endjinn.

>>19625672
Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series is superb!

This was the worst book I've ever read. If you like Dune, whatever you do, don't read past Frank's books.

I'm reading Lord of Light by Zelazny and was searching up random stuff about the book... I came across lordoflight dot com, and the impression I get is some copyright rent-seeker has all the rights to lord of light. I might be totally wrong but that site just seems like one guy shilling LoL as a TV show or movie which I'm not that opposed to but its just so cringe.

Imagine if copyright wasn't the broken sham that is it today and Lord of Light (and Dune!) was public domain as it should be, may decades after both were published. I bet copyright issues hold back lots of cool shit from being made. I don't know why I feel so annoyed at the LOL guy in particular but he just seems like the equivalent of a copyright-squatter. You can clearly see the IP has rotted for several years. The guy doesn't even seem to understand how copyright works as he finds fan art online (deviant art etc) and writes COPYRIGHT <name> AND <deviantart artist>... nigga you don't own the copyright of other people's fan art. I'm thinking people like him scare studios from picking something like lord of light up. If anyone does get it I hope its not Amazon though, after botching both The Expanse and WOT they are pretty much guaranteed to butcher everything they touch I think.

>>19625869
look at this shit
what the fuck man

>>19625885
So is the article pointing out those things as a good thing or is the book giving a dangerous message on those things?

>>19625910
The book itself is not morally concerned with anything related to diversity or whatever. In the book, reincarnation is a part of 'life', and people reincarnate into different bodies so people that were men in the past life are sometimes women in the next.

The 'transgender' part is referring to a scene in the book when a woman who is a powerful antagonist that can control her reincarnation purposefully reincarnates as a man because she wants power and control over other women and because she 'feels' like a man. Being powerful, she chooses to reincarnate in the perfect male body, bronzed, statuesque, etc. But in spite of this, women pay this character no attention and the protagonist makes a vague point about never being able to change your 'original' body's "fingerprint"... so in the modern day SJW twitter mob shit, that part of the book pretty much reads like transphobia. If they put that scene directly in any media, it would cause a massive shitstorm.

The guy who has the copyright however (??) seems to be shilling it as pro diversity because it has male and female main characters, gender fluidity (?) because you can reincarnate as male and female, and many characters are different skin tones (and it all pulls from the Hindu pantheon and Hindu / Buddhist mythology) so the guy is saying its "diverse". For example in lore, Krishna is black. So he's black in the books too. But this isn't considered "African American" black, its just dark skinned Indian (swarthy?) probably. Anyway imo the dude is just shilling and selectively picking out parts of the book to that end.

>>19625928
>transphobia

Relevant excerpts if anyone cares

>>19625998
these are disjoint, but the context is a conversation between the protagonist and "Brahma", an antagonist who was originally a woman that has reincarnated as a man

>>19626002

>>19624324
This is the one if you like dystopias. Don't let the cover put you off, it was probably drawn by someone who didn't read the book.

Also based for thinking Fahrenheit 451 sucked

>>19626013
3 stars sucks? Also it's a bad opinion. F451 is easily better than Animal Farm and Brave New World. Imagine having a brain this smooth.

Herbbros...

>>19617624
This has to be bait, there’s no way you’re this retarded to miss read and miss interpret so much.

>>19617662
This guys daughters a troon lol

People who use the term grimdark should be necked

>>19625998
>>19626002
>>19626007
If nothing else it would be interesting to see what modern audiences would make of Madeleine. I've also wondered a great deal whether Zelazny intended gender to be some metaphysical attribute that could not be transcended by reincarnation, which some eastern belief systems ascribe to, or if the memories of being another gender where difficult for some to overcome

>>19626013
451: inconsistent prose, underexplored world, old man yells at the sky feel, crazy out of place ending. Yeah, perhaps it should be 2 stars.
Animal farm is hilarious, then tragic. It starts out Soviet and ends in China.

>>19626013
Was it also titled by someone who never read the book? Because even that is pretty off-putting.

>>19625869
Struggled to get through the first chapter then gave up. Why should I bother?

>>19624324
How is Gattaca a dystopia?

>>19626304
I haven't read it in awhile but I thought it leaned towards it being inherent. Yama mentions that after reincarnation the "electrochemical" part of the data (soul? consciousness?) that is transferred ends up shaping the body, and if the body survives long enough theoretically it would remake the body in the image of the original.

>>19626349
I mean I didn't make the chart, but there is a whole class of people who are persecuted untouchables. I'm pro eugenics but gattaca is still not a great society. Also the first chapter of brave new world pissed me off because it was such a stupid design.

>>19626340
>Struggled to get through the first chapter then gave up. Why should I bother?
Starts slow, gets progressively cooler. There's like one pretty boring stretch that I remember where Sam gives a sermon to some monks about names and naming things (I think he was supposed to be bullshitting but I don't remember). That shit went on forever. Anyways as the book progresses, it switches to events that happened in that past as well and you piece together more stuff. Its a pretty easy read imo but if you really don't like it, just find something else you enjoy

Is there anything as creative as botns or at least similar in aesthetic minus Gene's literary complexity?
I truly appreciate it for what it is but it takes a lot of mental power to get through and I'd like something else that's dreamy and creative but doesn't require my absolute focus for hours. I swear I read it in the same way that I read a math book.
I haven't been able to get into Gene's The Knight for some reason.
I seem so disappointed with most fantasy and sci-fi books, there's endless stuff like mistborn.
The only limit to this medium is your mind so why does every other fantasy book follow a boring bard or rouge jumping around meeting an infinite amount of characters.
Why is a torturer who grew up in a rocket ship near a witch guild, almost drowning and being saved by an ancient alien giantess so rare?
There's so much that can be done with this genre but it's like it boils down to isekai, d&d and war of the roses with far too much focus on empty characters with a fake, uncomfortable and oddly noticeable personality? I'm having trouble finding the words but there's something that just feels so uncomfortably noticeable about characters in books like Red Rising for me as an example.
Ancient mythology from all over the world, Tolkien, Wolfe, stuff like China's Journey to the West, Lovecraft, Frank Herbert, sci-fi like Liu Cixin and Arthur C Clarke and the newest entry Piranesi, are all examples of creative and dreamy worlds.
There's so much beautiful potential and freedom for fantasy that it's driving me insane and I don't know if I'm annoyed with what it offers or myself for not seeing the appeal but I swear it's like fantasy writers would rather write 1000 pages of trash over 100 pages of soul.

>>19626380
It's really, really hard to put together a story with soul. Easy enough for the spark of the idea, and getting a rough draft or v2.0 is totally doable, but the real spit and polish comes in the endless rewrites. For example, I'm 5 rewrites in on a sci-fi duology and it's still shit, with hanging storylines, foggy characterization, and outright grammatical mistakes somehow still popping up. I take 6 months between each rewrite to work on other projects, because after awhile it's draining, no matter how much you love the work. I have 3 other projects of similar scope, and a half dozen that I could shit out to the publisher within a few weeks, and sure they'd sell, but since I don't need the money, why bother? Good quality takes time, and the publishing system as it's set up doesn't seem to facilitate good writing in many ways. You have to really believe in what you're doing. What % of your coworkers truly put forth their maximum effort? How many people do you meet each day who actually are fired up to do what they do, and put their soul into their work, because they know it's the right thing for them to do? Authors are no different, only a few actually want to write. Most people just do what they're afraid not to do, and that doesn't make for good writing.

>>19626352
Ah I'd forgotten that detail

>>19626378
It's a well regarded book. I was willing to give it more of a try.

>>19624395
This one however.... I made it forty pages and although I appreciated the Holocaust joke, I think I'm about done.

>>19626380
Jack Vance. Practically all of his SF&F is creative but The Dragon Masters takes the cake

>Humanity has been almost hunted to extinction by aliens. The two remaining colonies live in the fertile valley of a wind-ravaged planet where they battle for supremacy with genetically modified lizards. Joaz Banbeck, ruler of one of the colonies, believes alien invasion is imminent, but must also deal with his cruel and envious counterpart of the rival colony and a mysterious race of ascetics that control advanced technology

It's creative, fun and best of all it's short

>>19626340
It's a timeless beach that time travelers visit and have as a base

what are some good low-concept fantasy or science fiction authors? ie focused on character development and credible interactions. Le Guin comes to mind but beyond that most stories in genre fiction seem to be high concept

>>19626622
Silverberg
Grimwood
Terry Bisson

>>19626622
Sturgeon is the gold standard for me

>>19624324
"Return from the stars" by Lem.
It doesn't position itself as dystopia but nonetheless pretty spooky, probably even more than author intended.

>>19626021
Dang I meant this for you.
>451: inconsistent prose, underexplored world, old man yells at the sky feel, crazy out of place ending. Yeah, perhaps it should be 2 stars.
Animal farm is hilarious, then tragic. It starts out Soviet and ends in China.

>>19626843
Ok, thanks.

>>19616890
>>19617157
>>19617191
>Mostly Perrin. Objectionable might not be the right term here.

>Also, the gore has been a little over the top in places. Not to give spoilers, but there are several later scenes that made my wife pretty nauseous. I wouldn't, for example, show the show to any of my kids--and I let them play Doom Eternal. (Granted, that gore is cartoony and over the top on purpose.)

>But that's a smaller issue. I think the team is doing a great job in general, but I do wish it weren't trying quite so hard to be grim and dour.

https://old.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/rkuapb/state_of_the_sanderson_2021/hpcmciv/?cthrkdontext=3

>>19624266
It's just horrendous modern covers. Change the fonts and you completely switch the genre because covers themselves tell you absolutely nothing.

>>19623769
>There's so many threads you're never going to follow them all.
that's fine. many are obsessed with everything having to converge to a single point and be explained. in my opinion it's perfectly alright to have many things going on in an epic fantasy story given the scope and scale you're working with.

>>19619182
>who in the everloving fuck reads this crap?
booktubers. I seriously haven't read anything older than 10-15 years and it's entirely by accident. nothing recent interests me.

>>19627265
absolute state of sändersöys

>>19627265
Behold the untercück

anything similar to consider phlebas? I really dig the whole space blockbuster feel, it's kind of grungy and there's more under the surface for sure but it's first focus is on this really dynamic space adventure. I read player of games in about 3 sittings and I enjoyed it but it didn't scratch the same edge.

>>19621670
I hate to say this but I miss the days when christianity was the influencing factor, if not for any other reason than it spurred on a vibrant and creative counter culture. Look at media from our childhoods and how they'd subvert censors, or go against the grain. Nowadays if you dare question the socjus/feminist orthodoxy they cancel you and economically destroy any chances or opportunities you may have. It's gotten to the point people will tank their own otherwise obedient properties and franchises in order to remove any offending properties. Look at the recent firing of Jay Johnston-how many shows end up being completely pulled because they have a creator or driving force who committed a no-no. Doesn't matter the popularity of it, they'll pull it and act as if it never existed save to chastise the person who sinned

I hate this modern world, America went from cultural behemoth to laughingstock in such a short period of time. Let this show nations of the future to focus on quality, not on ideology

>>19627744
let's play a fun game. what is it that you want to say in public but can't. specifically

>>19627804

>>19627804
Niggers, jews, faggots

>>19627804
it's not a matter of what you can or can't say-the big issue imo is that the establishment will go full scorched earth for anyone demonstrating wrongthink, even incredibly mild or otherwise innocuous wrongthink. If you express your disdain for BLM it's enough to get you removed from the current entertainment establishment. I think that entertainers and entertainment should be judged on its merits, not on the political opinions displayed. There's no shortage of söy guzzling urbanites in the entertainment industry, doesn't mean I want them boycotted or fired for the moronic views they hold. I think this modern "socially conscious" crap is unnecessary and shallow and I hope it ends sooner rather than later

>>19627820
>>19627821
but anon you couldn't say that back when the hugos were supposedly good either

>>19627839
you can be critical of BLM in your fiction and find someone to publish it, pic related

if you don't outright disseminate hate speech then it's unlikely you'll get noticed at all

>>19627881
Shapiro is a conniving Jew leading the controlled opposition around by the nose. Of course he ain't getting cancelled anytime soon, that would defeat the entire point of his existence.

'Hate speech' doesn't exist, its a term made up by dangerous authoritarians as an excuse for censorship.

And you can't say the truth, that BLM is a racist terrorist movement that murdered over a dozen people with the full backing of the establishment.

>>19627881
>find someone to publish it
Yeah, someone. Fat lot of good it'll do for most people that Cleetus' Backyard Printing Press is still willing to take them on board even after they got the door shut in front of them by all mainstream institutions. It's the age of self-publishing anyway, so to begin with wannabe censors cannot excercise quite the same power as in the old days when writers really were utterly dependent on the infrastructure of publishing houses. Even so, the stubborn heretics of all ages usually found some way to make their voice heard to some degree or else we wouldn't even know about them. Giordano Bruno published quite a lot of books before they burned him. We're past setting people on fire for heresy at least. Doesn't change the fact that in the current day wrongthinkers against the feminist orthodoxy are made to suffer for their insolence and sure as hell will not be allowed to win any awards for their output regardless of merit. But as long as Cleetus' Backyard Printing Press remains in business, you'll have your plausible deniability.

>hate speech
You can fuck right off with your partisan term where the liberal feminist bias is baked directly into it from inception.

Can we consider Malazan a xianxia already?

>>19628062
>>19628066
people hate conservatives because they're consistently dumb and immoral
they deserve to be repressed, confined to obscurity, gradually erased from society

>>19628405
Xanxia is great however given that it is produced in China, it has to adhere to communist ideals (or at least not go against them) or get banned.

>>19618953
Making pictures like this should be a crime. Who is the guy in armor on the right supposed to be?

>>19628610
China is less communist than the US.

>>19623480
Meh. Pretty good YA fiction. Gets increasingly preachy with libertarianism as you get deeper into the series, to the point where it becomes a little annoying to read, and that's coming from a committed libertarian.

>>19628494
Pendulums are known to swing and turn about's fair play.

>>19628756
retard

>>19628783
It literally is. China is more capitalist.

>>19628807
China can't be capitalist, it isn't indoctrinating its citizens into becoming gay trannies and filling its own streets with foreigners.

>>19628861
I don't completely buy into the "capitalism alone causes woke" theory but I see what you're getting at. Simping for the Rainbow Empire against China is gay as fuck.

>>19628807
surely b8. The intelectual thought is highly controlled and restricted by communist goverment in China. It has been for decades.
While there is culture war waged in USA, there is still freedom compared to communist regime

>>19628897
>intelectual thought is highly controlled and restricted
That doesn't make the country communist.

>communist goverment
Assuming your conclusion here. The Chinese economy isn't communist in the slightest. If it were communist then it wouldn't work and they'd still be Mao era level poor.

>>19628917
It is clearly authoritarian in that regard. But is China authoritarian monarchy? It is not, is it national socialist? Nope, is it social democrat? Clearly it is not. Sure the chinese economy is not strictly communist, but the imposed and the only allowed social and political ideology is communist.

>>19628965
Ideology is a whore thet can serve any means.

>>19627201
Fahrenheit 451 is a literary classic. They don't write books like it anymore. Get at of here with your pretentious "weak prose" you have never written anything in your life.

I got offered Legend and some followup books from the Drenai Saga by David Gemmel, are these good or I got bamboozled?

>>19628965
>Sure the chinese economy is not strictly communist
So China is not communist. Glad you can admit this. Communism doesn't work and China is a successful nation.

>the only allowed social and political ideology is communist
This is straight up wrong. There's quite a lot of intellectual flexibility allowed. The CCP pulls from Confucianism, Legalism, Leninism, and they've even become enamored with European right wing thinkers like Carl Schmitt.

>is China authoritarian monarchy?
Yeah kinda. Modern China is difference from historical China but not by as much as you think. Centralized authoritarianism is most Chinese thing ever.

>is it national socialist?
Not exactly but there are similarities certainly. It's definitely closer to fascism to communism.

>>19628917
>The ideology I don't like is bad.
>If a country is successful, it means it isn't doing the ideology I don't like.
Hard 'no true Scotsman' there.

Was the USSR under Stalin also not communist when it went from ruined backwater with Africa tier back water and everything destroyed from a massive scorched earth civil war to being first into space, a super power, and nuclear power that no longer suffered food shortages in 25 years?

The CCP appoints the members of large corporate boards. They close the stock market by fiat. Their Jeff Bezos criticized communist influenced banking policy and disappeared for a year.

>please engage with my simplistic political talking points
get the fuck out of here you retards

>>19629029
>Was the USSR under Stalin also not communist when it went from ruined backwater with Africa tier back water
Yes. The USSR survived to the extent that it compromised on its hardcore central planning and China is blatantly a capitalist country.

>>19628917
The Mao era was shit, but it was shit before Mao. Large swaths of China were poorer than Africa. They had a civil 21 years and was a brutal (and killed more people) as the Eastern Front of WWII. There was a genocidal Jap invasion that hit the developed coast. The war went on for almost half a decade after the Japs surrendered and killed millions more. Foreign powers embargoed China and funded attacks on the government.

And yet, after a century of stagnation due to abject poverty, China's population doubled under Mao. Life expectancy exploded. Infant death dropped off a cliff. China made it into space before everyone but the USSR, USA, and France, beating Euro nations. They also were part of the original five with nukes. They defeated the US military in Korea in a major war where the US used the draft.

Mao did tons of retarded stuff but he also left China 10,000 times stronger and the people much better off.

>>19629063
>INB4 Mao killed millions because I'll count deaths from starvation and disease for communists but not for the UK in Ireland or India and not for the USA with the natives.

Far less deaths occured, hence the population growth. Was Mao also not real communism?

>>19629023
>So China is not communist. Glad you can admit this
No, you are wrong, just because economy is not 100% centralized doesn't mean they cannot be communist. They can and they are culturally, politically and socially.

>It's definitely closer to fascism to communism.
What? National socialism and communism, both are different forms if fascism.

How did we get from Malazan to Mao?

>>19629057
>Obama and Biden are making the US communist!
>Stalin was a capitalist reformer!
This is your brain on Blumpism lol.

>>19629087
Am*ricans

>>19629057
>Capitalist reforms made China and the USSR strong
>More capitalism for Russia caused standard of living to collapse to third world status, male life expectancy to plunge to 54, 8 million deaths, an explosion in crime, an explosion in degeneracy (alcoholism, drug use, and age girls first have sex all hot turbo fucked after communism fell, and remain way higher than the rest of Europe), and three decades now of weak economic growth.

Explain that one chief. Also, explain how base helicopter ride man had Chile stagnate for a decade while socialist rule saw it reach developed nation status?

>>19629063
Just because life improved doesn't mean China isn't authoritarian and specifically communist. Sure life is much better now but it is also restricted and getting even more restricted and less free (like latest social credit score), I guess after killing intellectuals, it is mostly okay because the remaining simple people do not care (and have no one to tell them otherwise and question the system), they either like it or simply don't care or don't know any better and just live communist planned and approved lifestyles.
However such people have no potential, China has 1.5 billion people, high literacy rates and massive amount of universities, yet it is still lagging in most academic subjects and scientific discoveries, let alone literaturre. It is in fact shocking how such fairly homogenous, stable country with such population has little to no creativity.

Can you faggots just start talking about science fiction or fantasy books already or go back to /pol/.

I've almost finished Confessor, the last of the Goodkind books I'm going to read.

There are a few good things, but so many bad things about these books. The worst is that Goodkind spends about 2/3 of each book catching up the reader on everything that has happened in earlier books, along with increasing doses of strawmanning made up philosophies and pumping up objectivism. It wouldn't be that bad if he didn't spend such an enormous page count doing it.

My one biggest complaint is what is done with Nicci. She's one of the better characters and she just gets destroyed in every possible way almost every time she's on screen.

>>19629150
They had this. Actually, they dominate some industries, solar panels for example.

They also just passed Russia for per Capita GDP, but all the adults grew up when it was as poor as India now. Development and education lags a generation.

And you could say the same thing about Russia. 130 million people and nowhere near the output of Germany or France.

>>19629010
I have four, not widely read, publications. 451 is not as good as Brave New World, which isn't as good as Animal Farm. I gave it three stars. It's a five point system. What do you want?

>>19629249
>all the adults grew up when it was as poor as India now. Development and education lags a generation.
That was possibly the case in mid 2000s. It's been 15-20 years, in fact several generation grew up but relatively things didn't change much.

>>19629249
>And you could say the same thing about Russia. 130 million people and nowhere near the output of Germany or France
the industrial progress soviet union achieved was short lived, that is industry stopped progressing and innovating. By the time soviet union fell most of industry was outdated and not competitive in global world. They simply had to start from scratch, not just industry but also educating people, if germany or france literally had 50 years of 0 progress and innovation and intellectual oppresion they would be in a similar situation today

>>19629368
They have innovation. China btfo the West so hard in 5G that they had to say "uhhh, actually, free markets are bad," and ban them. The entire wave of smart tech will run off Chinese made network tech because they have a huge first mover advantage.

Also, they have a lot of stuff going on in theoretical physics.

Meanwhile, Germany is a bad example because all they do is slow iteration on existing consumer shit. They haven't been a scientific power house since they kicked out and killed their Jews. Meanwhile, Israel, with a population of a single city (and socialism) is landing probes on the Moon, something China also just did. China also had better hypersonics and anti-satalite capabilities than the US, something the Pentagon even says.

>>19626380
Who is the artist of these illustrations? Is there more?

>>19629462
China is ranked higher than many Western countries by Western think tanks
Higher than Canada, Australia, Belgium, or Japan. And they have been shooting up. Six of the 10 fastest companies to reach $1B are Chinese tech start ups. Ali Baba is fucking up Amazon outside the US and EU.

https://www.wipo.int/global_innovation_index/en/2021/

China is 14th for innovation and rising.

>>19629462
What do you mean? Do you mean equipment? Most of components (like the arm chips) have been designed in the west but produced in Asia? Most hardware have western equivalents from siemens and ericsson. Do you mean deployment where China simply deployed the network disregarding peoples wishes and any safety concerns?

>14 for innovation
For a country like China that seems very low

Can you faggots just start talking about science fiction or fantasy books already or go back to /pol/.

>>19629567
Lead by example you insufferable faggot.

Books with Sealab 2021 vibes? I just remembered I meant to watch that show this year and didn't get around to it. Anyway it's like, whacky hijinks on a science fiction type base or whatever.

>>19616657
Hacks are way more prone to use hard systems. Because their writing is so otherwise lacking, they like to trick idiots eating the bullshit up into thinking overly complicated rules and regulations equal actual complexity and nuance.

But what really makes them irresistible to hacks, is that they can always come up with some super convenient "mystery" that they only reveal at a later date to easily let their protagonists escape the corner their dumb rules have painted them into. It's always some secret new source of power, or a special application of a vague rule in some really contrived manner. And idiots will actually cheer this and think it's some clever twist, especially if the hacks "hint" or "foreshadow" it by intentionally being vague about there always being some more "mystery" to be revealed about their shitty systems at a later date, when they finally decide to come up with something super conveniently needed at a critical moment.

>>19629580
City under the sea by Kenneth Bulmer.

>>19624675
>Logan's Run
This story is kind of nuts.More like a dream than "science" fiction. (A horny dream at that.) I'm only halfway so not sure what I think about it, but I'll probably finish it. (Since it is short.)

>>19629087
Ignorant Americans are so brainwashed they still think China is communist. Simple as.

>>19629824
Shit up already. What is it with you faggots bringing off-topic bullshit in this general?

>>19629810
>>19629580
Also, make sure to get the old as cover for the sealab 2021 vibes.

>>19629861
>35Cents
God, books have gotten expensive.

New thread
>>19629873

>>19629861
Man that looks perfect, thanks anon!

>>19628494
Is this supposed to be some sardonic demonstration how hate speech is real, but we only care when it's levelled at (what you presume to be) our own group instead of minorities we (presumably) despise? That's not how it works though. Sure, if you insert "nigger" for "conservative" then the ACLU and SPLC will immediately shout from the rooftops how that statement is intolerable hate speech and anyone saying such things in public should be arrested on the spot. But if you leave it at conservative or "white dudes" or some such thing, you'll receive standing ovations from social media and only hear the sound of crickets coming from the direction of so called civil rights organizations. Something something "ackshually you need prejudice PLUS power for it to count" something something "punching UP is a-okay." In mainstream discourse the accusation of "hate speech" is only ever directed at certain kinds of heretic speech and never at the mirror image of it coming from the orthodoxy. Hence it's a poisened, partisan term.

>>19629544
It's controlled for population to some degree, hence Switzerland beating out the USA for number one. Obviously the US has way the fuck more patents and start ups than anyone else, and China is second place in total numbers.

>tfw no Anasurimbor Serwa gf...
Why live?