/lit/ - Literature

>>19598368
cringe.
literally everything is above marx. read some aquinas fag

>>19598381
Elaborate. Why should I read Aquinas? I had some interest about it when I was a catholic, but not anymore.

Don't get caught in materialism, but you are right. Socialism has been associated with queers since it came about. Orwell writes about it in the road to Wiggan Pier, and it's still true today. There's valid criticisms made by Marx but you'll never see any leftist movement successfully do anything about it.

>>19598413
Indeed, and that's because 99% of leftists are insufferable. Especially when you throw in race and identity politics into the mix. I suppose that is also another thing that excludes me from being a leftist.

>>19598368
Marx predicted that capitalism would have to give way to socialism, we're seeing it now with the mindless capitalist destruction of the planet. The consensus is that it can't go on: controlled socialism is the answer.

Why not just... read Marx and find out? Is this too simple an answer for /lit/, is this just a bait thread?

>>19598368
>what is beyond and or above Marx
Carlyle.

>>19598469
This. The Soviet Union did a lot of bad things, but they were a lot better for the environment than capitalists countries, and just for that it may be necessary to try again, otherwise global warming, pollution and contamination will kill us all.

>>19598482
I have. Marx and all the bells and whistles modern academia has done too. But I don't know what is "above" Marx to define my political opinions. Is the best thing an semi educated man can do is to go around spitting a failed ideology?
>>19598485
Thank you!
>>19598469
The destruction of this planet does not seem to me like the endgame anymore.

>>19598496
Soviet Union was absolutely unsustainable when they could have been the world's largest Scandinavian-style mixed socialist-capitalist economy open to the Western world, which controls the world's financial governance systems obviously.

>>19598515
Well, you could look into authors like Graber, Fisher, Derrida, Zizek etc. who all take different and interesting takes on Marx and how technology + neoliberal politics have ruined marx's predictions. Hauntology. Lost Futures. Capitalist Realism. Etc.

>>19598368
Carlyle, Carl Schmitt and Spengler.

>>19598594
>Capitalist Realism
Seriously, kill yourself. I can't think of a more midwit answer to this thread.

"I am a big old retard"
Neat thesis there OP

>>19598622
Yes. What about it?
>>19598609
Thanks.
>>19598594
Have not read the first two yet. I'll think about it.

>>19598368
One is never done reading Marx. Go read some of the Frankfurt School—and not the dumb shit that gets assigned in college like Dialectic of Enlightenment or One-Dimensional Man. Read Negative Dialectics or Towards a New Manifesto; at this point your understanding of Marx is probably limited by your understanding of Hegel, so beef up on German Idealism. Check out the Neue Marx-Lektüre or Wertkritik people (Moishe Postone's Time, Labor, and Social Domination is a must read for thinking about Marx today). Hell, look at people who go beyond Marx like the Comaroff's (and then you also get to engage with Marxists like Benjamin and his Critique of Violence).

There is nothing beyond Marx as everything he wrote is in the horizon of Capitalist production which we are currently living in right now, the only way to transcend him is to fight for revolution and establish socialism/communism, then Marx can be seen as outdated

>>19598368
OP I happen to notice a curious lack of admission on actually reading any Marx ever in your post.

Did you actually read anything? It really seems like you haven't is all.

>>19598368
>fascinated with marxist ideals, though I am not a marxist myself simply because I have seen the ideology fail too many times,
Just because they haven't worked in the past doesn't mean the ideals are invalid. Ideals are utopian by nature.

>>19598368

>However I want to know, what is beyond and or above Marx

Milton Friedman

>>19598751
Thing is - if OP somehow happened to not be a faggot and really had a fascination with Marxism while reeing at the history of the practical implementation, he would simply be a frothing Ortho, seething at how and where exactly did Lenin or Mao or Castro have gone wrong.

>>19598717
That fucking sucks but I find that enough to explain why there isn't a lot above it and why it is the bread and butter everywhere.
>>19598745
But I did say so once in this thread. Albeit not in English and not recently, but I read the whole Kapital plus some smith to make sense of the vol 1.

>>19598781
I fail to understand what is the purpose of it all if it cannot be translated successfully into practice on a long term. Theory just isn't worth a damn to me if nothing get's successfully implemented to achieve the fundamental goals of marxism.

>>19598461
>Especially when you throw in race and identity politics into the mix. I suppose that is also another thing that excludes me from being a leftist.
those are radlibs anon
>>19598717
this
>>19598751
and this
>>19598837
>what is china

>>19598794
>I read the whole Kapital
>not recently
>I'm a freshman
If you read kapital when you were 14 you may as well have not read it at all. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

>>19598496
>but they were a lot better for the environment than capitalists countries
Didn't the USSR (or one of their republic) drain one of the world's biggest lakes

>>19598515
>But I don't know what is "above" Marx to define my political opinions
Idk about being "above", but maybe trying reading from other political ideologies/traditions. For liberalism read Locke, John Stuart Mill, Rawls
Then read the critique of liberalism by Communitarians: Sandel, Macintyre, Etzioni,

>>19599214
No.

>>19599254
You've obviously never read Das Kapital, it shows so glaringly

>>19598991
>>what is china
A shithole.

>>19599284
kek. cope

>>19599259
>Ill-conceived Soviet irrigation schemes reduced the water flow from the rivers needed to replenish the Aral Sea. ... This has caused over 90 per cent loss in the volume of water in the last six decades. Once the world's fourth-largest lake, it now hosts travellers who visit to witness the apocalyptic landscape.
Hmm...

>>19599292
>Muh economic growth
Will stagnate because chinese don't breed and the hyperconsumerist youth are trying to make quick buck online and leave china.

>>19599310
cope. your time is over and has been over for years

>>19599320
>c-cope
Cope with your failed brithrates, chink. Who will work in sweatshops now, huh?

>>19599329
not chinese, not a burger, I see cope and I call it cope

>>19599351
Again, who will work in sweatshops if they don't breed? They need more sl- I mean, more honorable workers.

>>19599362
they have the same birth rate as the US and with a population of 1.4 billion + automation they'll be more than fine

>>19599329
>Who will work in sweatshops now, huh?
You. Welcome to the proletariat, buckaroo.

>>19599377
>USA: 12.4/1000
>China: 8.5/1000
Nope.
>>19599389
Yeah, that ain't happening.

>>19599403
>USA: 1.7 per woman
>China: 1.7 per woman
cope

>>19599413
>Figures released by the country's national bureau of statistics show there were 8.5 births per 1,000 people in 2020, the first time in decades that the figure has fallen below 10. In 1978, the figure was more than 18 per 1,000.
No u.

>>19599259
Lmao you're a real dumbfuck. You just looked at the images and assumed they speak for themselves.
>By 1960, between 20 and 60 km3 (4.8 and 14.4 cu mi) of water each year was going to the land instead of the Aral Sea and the sea began to shrink. From 1961 to 1970, the Aral's level fell an average of 20 cm (7.9 in) per year. In the 1970s the rate nearly tripled to 50–60 cm (20–24 in) per annum, and in the 1980s to 80–90 cm (31–35 in) per annum. The amount of water taken for irrigation from the rivers doubled between 1960 and 2000. In the first half of the 20th century prior to the irrigation, the sea's water level above sea level held steady at 53 m. By 2010 the large Aral was 27 m and the small Aral 43 m above sea level.[33]
>The disappearance of the lake was no surprise to the Soviets, they expected it to happen long before. As early as 1964, Aleksandr Asarin at the Hydroproject Institute pointed out that the lake was doomed, explaining, "It was part of the five-year plans, approved by the council of ministers and the Politburo. Nobody on a lower level would dare to say a word contradicting those plans, even if it was the fate of the Aral Sea."[34]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea#Irrigation_canals

>>19599418
>>19599413
You are both coping faggotrons and I will be glad of heart when Ebola AIDS niggers finish your assholes.

>>19599418
I know that things are different in the US, but in China, men still can't have children.

>>19599430
Also even in the images you can see the decline. In the 1989 picture look at the difference in the shoreline. That's cause the water level was already declining.

>>19599296
>shortsighted manmade change
hmm..

>>19599430
I think he meant that the worst evaporation happened after the collapse of the USSR, as the post-commie Azerbaijan gov is not exactly in love with shooting their agriculture in the face.

>>19599432
>Chinese mothers gave birth to just 12 million babies last year, down from 14.65 million in 2019, marking an 18 per cent decline year on year and continuing the descent to a near six-decade low. That means the national birth rate dropped to a record low of 8.52 births for every 1,000 people.

>The country’s falling birth rate, ageing population and shrinking labour force represent an unsettling demographic change in the world’s most populous nation and second-largest economy. These headwinds could disrupt Beijing’s long-term ambitions for economic development and technological innovation on the global stage, as the country moves to recover from the Covid-19 pandemic.

>From a historical perspective, tumbling birth rates across the country show how alarming the country’s population problem has become, according to Liang. “The number of new births now represents only half or a third of the number during the years of plenty,” he said, referring to the early 1990s when China recorded annual new births of more than 20 million.
Cope harder.

>>19599447
>as the post-commie Azerbaijan gov is not exactly in love with shooting their agriculture in the face.
Not saying the post-commie gov was any better. Just pointing out the fact that the USSR contributed to the problem.

>>19599448
That anon is a faggotron due to simping for Chinese doomed attempts at imperialism. You are an even bigger faggotron for trying to dab on dumb chinks for jumping down the hole that you have inhabited for a century now.

>>19599436
>muh troons

>>19599480
yep, YWNBAW

>I am an "freshman"
Stopped reading there. Bad thread.

>>19599486
Why are commies so disingenious and inconsistent on their politics?

>>19599472
I just hate chink shills.

>>19599500
?
china banned femboys. cope.

>>19599472
>simping for Chinese doomed attempts at imperialism
???

>>19599511
Because their "men" were getting so feminine lol.

>>19599527
ok? that's based leadership, unlike the US

>>19598594
>Capitalist Realism
LMAO