/lit/ - Literature

>>19592721
Any military science fiction novels that deal with Human-Alien wars in a nuance manner that isn’t Humanity fuck yeah, or Humanity being backwards savages and losing? I know Halo novels are one, but any other?

>chinkshit

>>19592753
Ranks of Bronze is a pretty interesting take on human-alien space wars.

>>19592871
>>19592753
The High Crusade i guess, it's quite enjoyable but not sure if it's what you are looking for

>>19592753
The Forever War
Starship Troopers

the halo novels are overwhelmingly Humanity fuck yeah though

>>19592843
Cope cracker

>From the acclaimed author of the Vorrh Trilogy comes an epic odyssey following a group of mercenaries hired to escort a divine oracle on a long journey amidst a war between the living and the dead.
>Sheltering beneath Das Kagel, the cloud-scraping structure rumored to be the Tower of Babel, the sacred Monastery of the Eastern Gate descends into bedlam. Their ancient oracle, Quite Testiyont--whose prophesies helped protect the church--has died, leaving the monks vulnerable to the war raging between the living and the dead. Tasked by the High Church to deliver a new oracle, Barry Follett and his group of hired mercenaries are forced to confront wicked giants and dangerous sirens on their mission, keeping the divine creature alive by feeding it marrow and confessing their darkest sins.
>But as Follett and his men carve their way through the treacherous landscape, the world around them spirals deeper into chaos. Dominic, a young monk who has mysteriously lost his voice, makes a pilgrimage to see surreal paintings, believing they reveal the empire's fate; a local woman called Mad Meg hopes to free and vindicate her jailed son and becomes the leader of the most unexpected revolution; and the abbott of the monastery, influential as he is, seeks to gain even more power in this world and the next.
>Rich with action and fantastic creatures, Hollow ushers the reader through a world of ruin where holy secrets are unearthed, art mirrors life through a glass darkly, and death looms over everything.
Has anyone read it?

Are there any fantasy novels that are video gamey without actually have video game systems in it like actual game menus? I want to read something that isn't the usual fantasy novel where the MC is on a quest to reclaim their throne or some other epic reason - I'm looking for something where the MC is like some literal who and builds himself up by experiencing the world - basically a level 1 in an MMO going to max level. Something that really feels like there's more to the world than just the MC and his end-goal. Like in Name of the Wind, or whatever book it was, the MC in that is in some magic academy or something and during his time there he develops a trap and makes money off of it with a patent, actually uses it, and spent time developing it. I thought that was really entertaining.

Alternatively are there any books that have a similar vibe to Monster Hunter?

>>19592961
malazan

>>19592961
Way of Kings

Uh

>>19590892
have you read Sisyphean by Torishima Dempow?

Any suggestions for Dark Age fantasy?

>>19593199
Eaters of the Dead (Michael Crichton) maybe?

I'll pretend the last part doesn't exist so I can say it was good.

>>19593125
I am not that Anon, but I have, it wasn't as weird as I was hoping

Any versions of the Dune books to stay away from? I read one review where the dude was unspecific but claimed some version to be a lacking print. No clue if he was just going autismo or full of shit but I hate re-edited books so I figured I'd ask.

For fantasy novels what type of MC are you looking for? Do you want a young literal who character or some middle-aged man who has established himself? Mentor type? Student/apprentice type? I can't be the only one who has gotten a bit fatigued with the 13 year old main character who goes to some sort of school or bumbles their way through the story and has to rely on everyone until the 11th hour. Tell me what you would find to be an interesting main character

>>19593218
Ah, the 13th Warrior novelization, of course.

>>19593321

>>19593357
Journeyman, in media res on his first real "job". I think the bildungsroman has a place, but give me someone competent and don't waste my time with high school hijinks and a whole book where fuck nothing of value happens. It makes me wish one giant book instead of a trilogy was the norm. 850 page limit.

>>19593372
Because all writing advice says that's WRONG

I just finished Senlin Ascends. I hope this series has a happy ending!

What's your favorite work from Jack Vance?

>>19593573
I've only read The Last Castle, so I'll say that

>>19593360
Appreciate the chart but I don't mean specific books, rather certain printings of the books. I know I'm going up to at least God Emperor.

>>19593621
You have no way of knowing if you have the 17th or 18th pressing of the second edition from back in '85 that is sometimes missing a folio. If a bunch of current reviews of a current edition say it's shit, it's probably shit.

Are there any science fiction novels that aren't focused on hi-tech and humanoid aliens or whatever but instead deal with weird and bizarre ideas in space? Like, idk, intelligent planets, weird creatures with weirder agendas, space nebulae that are like gods, anything bizarre? Might be more like space opera or space pulp or whatever, but I'm interested if stuff like that exists.

>>19593765
>intelligent planets
Read or watch Solaris

>>19593765
Yes, of course there are.
First one that comes to mind is Semiosis.
I only partially read it, maybe 20%, but it may have what you want. Still has humans though. I initially misread and thought that said "intelligent plants". Intelligent planets has been more of a comics thing, such as a certain Marvel movie. There are books that are about the Gaia Hypothesis where the Earth is a living planet, but that probably isn't what you want.
Maybe Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions .
Children of Time is something about intelligent "spiders"
The Outside - Ada Hoffman may have something like that.

There's a lot, but that isn't something I really have any interest in because especially if they're the protagonists, it's literally too autistic for me to enjoy. That's mostly when don't have the slightest bit relation to humanity.

As with a lot of ideas, someone has probably self-published or written webfiction about it though. I've probably read short fiction about it as well, but nothing comes to mind.

>>19593861
Humans as protagonists are completely fine, I'm just a bit bored by the typical stuff I've read over the past, that focuses on the technical and political aspects of sci-fi with aliens that are more or less like humans.
Thanks for the recs, I'll look through them. I have a copy of Flatland lying around, maybe I should read it.

>>19593787
Will look at it, thanks.

>>19593876
Shucks, just saw that Solaris is by Lem and I had that book, but gave it to my father. Probably won't see him for the next months, but will put it on the list.

>>19592029
Vance isn't mainstream even within nerd-dom so there's little value in paying for the rights if you can make a legally distinct clone

Speaking of Vance I started reading Big Planet last night and was immediately reminded of why I like his writing

>>19593765
Probably not what you're looking for but The Inverted World

>>19592843
I don't know what is meant by this. However, I've read one Chinese sci-fi book, the Three Body Problem, and it was good. Not amazing, but solid. I hear the later ones are significantly better though so I will try again at some point.

>>19593357
I self insert as Kellhus in Bakker, Leto II in Dune, and the Shrike or TechnoCore in Hyperion.

Imagine people who self-insert as Lindon

>>19593976
I'll look at it regardless, maybe it's interesting. Thanks, anon

>>19592721
Been trying to get into reading again and someone recommended this book to me. Should I give it a shot?

>>19594310
Did you like his previous work? If so, maybe. If not, probably not.

Is this series that good or is it just another series that Reddit fingers their asshole over but actually sucks?

i marathoned the first chapter. what am in for? i feel completely lost. i also have been checking the dictionary/translation a lot on my e-reader as an ESL

>>19594387
>>19594386
3 seconds apart, nice

Urban fantasy? Traditional fantasy? Modern Fantasy? What flavor of fantasy do you like the most /lit/?

>>19592721
What by David Gemmell is worth reading?

First person or third person limited?

REMINDER

>>19594386
It filters esls, brainlets, and anyone going in on bad faith. Reddit is barely able to discuss it without getting bans left and right. I thought it was going to be another total meme until the story proper started. It's a slow burn intro for a reason, one the pace picks up, you can decide.

Just begun to read this, what do i think about it?

>>19594499
I could never read chinese translated shit - the prose is just fucking bad and I could never tell if the source material is at fault or the translators are though I'm willing to bet it's both. No idea why novels are so dogshit compared to their really fucking good comics that flow really fucking well

>>19594518
i think it's shit.

>>19594386
>>19594387
To be fair, you need a very high IQ to understand BOTNS

>>19594517
Thanks, I’m finishing up my reread of Ilium then I’ll try it out

Here are the series I've read and how much I enjoyed them, what other series should I look at?

LOTR: 10/10
Wheel of Time: 9.5/10
Sword of Truth: 9/10
Stormlight Archive: 9/10
Mistborne: 7.5/10
Dark Tower: 5.5/10
Game of Thrones: 2/10

Currently reading Malazan, on book 7, so far the series is 5/10

>>19592961
Dungeon Samurai

>>19594397
Mommy Milkers Fantasy

Group opinion on progression fantasy as a whole? Dipping my toes into the genre through games and books. Been hung up on Cultivation Simulator for the last 200 some hours. Read all of the Cradle books... twice. Maybe it's less the conventions and more the characters in that series, but if there's anything along the same vein that you'd recommend...

If you haven't read Cradle, I recommend the series. Similar vibe to watching Avatar The Last Airbender for the first time. Each person is born with a 'core' and can adopt a discipline in the world, of which there are many. Great characters, fascinating world and great progression for each of the major characters. This dude knows how to balance a cast.

>>19594711
>Dungeon Samurai
What the fuck am I reading? Is this shit any good? I'm kinda interested

>>19594716
the best kind

>>19594520
who cares about comics.. And what exactly is the issue with chinese translated prose?
I have nothing against pure English prose however western literature (sff included) is plagued by liberalism and liberal authors, it may have best prose in the world but it is still garbage

>>19594728
See >>19594499
It is not exactly like cradle but it is probably the best eastern fantasy/cultivation type novel out there.
Also check out Martial World (it follows more traditional cultivation format but it nowhere near as good as RI)

Cradle was great until the development of Lindens relationship with that swords woman, I couldn't even get into bloodlines, at the beginning chapter after chapter it was just some females blabbering about nothing, I dropped it, cradle started out great but turned into some generic western fantasy with cultivation elements, with white night linden and his female protags. Trash

>>19594807
Damn this is the power of Cradle haters, we got too cocky wightbros...

>>19592961
Cradle

>>19594734
Read it, cunt.

>>19592961
Mother of Learning

I tired reading The Darkness That Comes Before, but it's full of of technobabble and I'm now an old and impatient man who hates having made up words thrown at you. Please recommend a good fantasy novel that keeps all the gobbledygook to an absolute minimum.

>>19594728
I like the idea but usually the system the author makes is fucking retarded - like coiling dragon's progression system (I liked the idea of divine sparks but the execution of it was shit imo). I know this isn't the place but I've found that manhwas and Manhuas generally have a more fleshed out system for some reason.

A good thing about it is that it's pretty diverse. Mages can progress via the circle system, martial users, outside of wuxia, can also have various ways of progressing though admittedly it is skimming off the wuxia genre (think sword ki/aura)

I think the biggest flaw of the genre from what I've seen is plot armor. Usually the author will go "oh no, going to this next stage of enlightenment is extremely dangerous and look! the MC is on the verge of ki diviation" or whatever and the MC never, ever fucking has any consequences or risks fucking up. It's always "oh boy, that was close! if I messed up I totally would've died for real" And the MC will ALWAYS find some convenient way of powering up that makes them gain like 100 years of inner KI so they can shit on other 10 year olds and make the elders of the clan take interest in them.

My expertise of the genre comes in the form of comics so unless you want eastern comics to read I can't really give you any recommendations besides go look at https://www.wuxiaworld.com/

>>19594827
Fuck you, fine.

>>19594836
>time loop stuff
aaaaaa, sorry anon but I hate time loop stuff

>>19594728
Huge fan of progression fantasy here. I got excited when I learned that there was a name for the genre, less excited when I realized there wasn’t much of it (well-written ones, anyway). I’ve enjoyed Stormlight and Arcane Ascension, as well as some litRPG. Dungeon Crawler Carl is fantastic, and The Completionist Chronicles is great even though the writing can get aggressively bad.

>>19593765
Blindsight by Peter Watts

>>19594397
Xianxia

>>19594847
Is it better if the MC failed to advance and hurt his foundation and spends the next 500 chapters fixing it?

>>19595084
There are other ways to have consequences that doesn't impact the pace of the novel. MC enter ki deviation? Succumbs to his inner demons and goes on a rampage until he can recover. This can impact his reputation or he can even end up killing someone and face the ramifications of that. Could require the MC to have to deal with a temporary handicap that he eventually overcomes down the road. Could even have the MC have to stop being a cultivator and end up going down a different path that doesn't require cultivation and can offer them a choice down the road on if he wants to go back to being a cultivator or continue down his path.

Plenty of ways you can actually give consequences to the MC and it positively impact the story and stop the "Close call! That totally could've x, y, z but thankfully it didn't!"

Cradle is paced around the idea of one major advancement per book. It seems too fast when you consider that Lindon's character doesn't advance that fast.

>>19594845
Maybe Chink shit is more your speed.

>>19595140
Literally the opposite though

hey guys any recommendations for female alien x human male stories?
Looking for all kinds - my idea one is spice and wolf tier of diabeetus just two lovers traveling the stars.

>>19595187
Codex Alera was the first thing that came to mind.

>>19595113
There’s a few stories that do something along those lines

Is it worth reading 2001: A Space Oddyssey if you've seen the movie? Also how does it stack up to Clarke's other work?

>>19592721
https://www.tor.com/2021/12/18/2021-hugo-award-winners/
Summary:
Best Novel: Network Effect, Martha Wells (Tordotcom)
Best Novella: The Empress of Salt and Fortune, Nghi Vo (Tordotcom)
Best Novelette: “Two Truths and a Lie,” Sarah Pinsker (Tor.com)
Best Short Story: “Metal Like Blood in the Dark,” T. Kingfisher (Uncanny Magazine, September/October 2020)
Best Series: The Murderbot Diaries, Martha Wells (Tordotcom)
Best Video Game: Hades (publisher and developer: Supergiant Games)
There are also many other categories.

>>19592753
This one wasn't too bad. Replace Afghanis and their inter-tribal bullshit with aliens and there you go.

>>19594695
good god.
based your taste i'd say rothfuss would be right up your alley.

>>19594728
never heard of it. sounds like something someone on reddit or tvtropes recently came up with than a genuine established subgenre of fantasy.

>>19595382
Imagine if they just removed problems by their roots baka

>>19595187

>>19595423
Is this about a dude who cuts spaceships in half with his sword in the name of his xenomorph waifu? if so then based

>>19593765
Pic related focuses on language among many other things. Very unique book and highly engaging. The planet they are on is also kind of like a David Cronenberg’s body horror planet where everything is alive: the houses, the prosthetic limbs, etc.

>>19595434
No, it is about a dude whos gf is alien

>>19594728
this is wow twitch stream in book form. But it's Sunday here, and I don't feel like reading Aeschylus. So I'll read the first chapter of the UNSOULED by Will Wight.

>>19594845
Lyonesse

>>19595436
Problem is it takes so long for a logical conclusion to happen. I'll give Meville credit because holy fuck can he write weird shit.

what are some good golden age sci fi anthologies? this got me interested in tracking some down, already ordered the two he talked about.
https://youtu.be/eR7MnsiO5lY

>>19595313
Just finished reading Piranesi, since it was nominated for Best Novel and people were recommending it. Great ontological mystery, super unique, and it’s pretty short if you’re looking for a quick read.

>>19593765
i read something not long ago, i think it was a short story : a small crew travels forever (they are in stasis 99% of the time) in a spaceship at almost the speed of light, building wormholes once in a while so that their civilization back at home can use them to expand their reach across the universe. i remember that one of them is chimp, who is was engineered to be a superintelligent slave who pilots the ship, and the protag is a bitchy woman who hates herself and humanity and everything after all her years, and the point is that they find a sentient nebula who asks them to build their thing elsewhere because it would kill it

anyone know what this is? i can't for the life of me remember where i read it, i think it was pretty good overall, some interesting sci fi concepts

>>19595868
i'm putting it next in my list, thanks because i've been wanting to read something recent for a while

>>19593765
I personally enjoyed schismatrix-first contact occurs about 1/3 of the way into the book with what's basically reptilian space jew merchants(seriously, their primary focus is trade and wealth). It's focused quite a bit on human evolution and general weirdness. It's a personal favorite of mine, it's often lumped into the cyberpunk genre but I don't think it fits well in there

>>19594386
>>19594387
I just read it late summer/early fall and it's become one of if not my favorite series. It has many layers and rewards careful analysis and rereading. There's plenty of half baked theories and idiotic interpretations out there, it's best to read it through before you go about digging online

currently reading Litany of the Long Sun, it's different and can drag a bit at times but it's an enjoyable book with a much more likable main character. It's popular to hate on Severian online, but imo the biggest issue to me is his fear of commitment and tendency to run from everything first opportunity he gets, from his guild to the rebellion to his myriad of friends, acquaintances, lovers, and vagabonds he encounters along the way

Free Live Free just got delivered today. Waiting on 5th head of cerberus and There are Doors

Hopefully getting the last 2 books in the solar cycle, I have everything except the final 2 in the short sun series. Gene Wolfe is quite the writer, I worry it's gonna be hard to go back to others since I opened the gates

>>19596358
fucking love that pic

Where the heck did you find it? BotNS artwork is so damn rare

>>19596416
the artist is Nathan Anderson. I think this is a recent update, the bottom row I haven't seen before yesterday

He does good art, I liked his drawings of neuromancer characters too, and I think he drew hyperion characters(haven't read it yet)

>>19596358
I always thought Baldanders was blue-huish and more of a giant and Typhon was more of a same cloth as him

One word
Goodkind

>>19592961
https://www.royalroad.com/fictions/search?title=ssyba%27s+path+to+heaven

It's ongoing though, but might be right up your alley

>>19595868
I've got my BA in philosophy just like the next guy but what the hell does "great ontological mystery" mean?

>>19596596
Kys

Is there anything like Dark Souls?

Fucked up world, crazy demons and witches, big variation in environments.

Here's a link if you don't know about the games https://www.svg.com/161177/the-entire-dark-souls-story-explained/

>>19596669
>>19594518
kinda

>>19594964
Added it to the list, looks interesting, thanks

>>19595436
I'm not a fan of Mieville, but might give it another try. thanks

>>19596348
Seems funky, will read. Thanks for the rec, anon

>reading ranger's apprentice
>like it but hardly anything fucking happens because the author switches the POV on two characters telling two different stories
fucking reeeeeee, the plot could've easily been like 50% more progressed why do authors do this aaaaaaaaaaaaa. Yeah, it made me like Horace a bit more but I don't think it was worth knee-capping the fucking pacing -definitely needed the training with Halt to be more fleshed out and more interactions between Halt and the MC

>>19595994
Freeze-frame revolution, Watts

>>19593573

Demon Princes always made me want for adventure in a way that even Dying Earth lacked, I want to explore the Oikumene.

>>19594417

The Rigante stuff is classic melodrama tragic hero to me, if you like "for God's sake just listen to the damn warnings given by prophecy" you'll like it.

>>19596923
>rigante
The Moidart is my nigga.

>>19595387
Thanks, I'll check it out :)

>>19596923
That's how I feel about Tschai, Planet of Advdnture rocks

>>19592721
The Alloy of Law, Wax & Wayne #1 - Brandon Sanderson (2011)
A quick, easy, and disappointing read. I thought I would enjoy the new setting more than I did. I ignored the warnings that the second series was generally less enjoyed, but I don't have any misgivings about having done so. Within the first few pages I could tell this would be written in the style of various comic book hero movies. The first to come to mind was Batman, though there are shades of many others as well. It's easy to see how the ideas from this would compel Sanderson to write Legion and Steelheart over the next couple years. The broadsheet page were neat, but I don't think they added much. I didn't think the new tech made much of any difference, the guns especially, and I felt like the magic was tacked on, even though I know it wasn't. Even so, I'll still be finishing this series for personal reasons. I won't be doing so anytime soon, but eventually. I'll finish sometime before the 4th book is released in November 2022 anyway.
Rating: 2.5/5

Any good sci-fi novels or series that take place entirely on a generation ship without a single living person who has or ever will set foot on an actual planet?

Is this good?

No

>>19597212
if you like boring YA fantasy, sure

>>19597212
I liked the Fitz books a lot, so I cast my vote for yes.

>>19597212
The trilogy has one of the most beautifully depressing endings.

>>19597212
Written by a woman, therefore No.

>>19597275
It's not ya. Look I'm not expecting it to be Goodkind levels of good i just want it to be enjoyable.

any sci fi/fantasy universe that also blatantly transposes real life cultures to its universe?

pic related

>>19597195
From what I've seen, books like that tend to either only have that as a background element and mostly ignore all the implications or the ship is so large that it may as well be and often is treated as a planet.

>>19597518
Cultures? Tons. Takes place on Earth? Also tons.

>>19597518
'Iranistan'

>>19597547
>Cultures? Tons. Takes place on Earth? Also tons.

any you would recomend?

>>19597584
That's not really a something to recommend by is, it? It's too common and says little about the work itself. There would be little to no difference than from recommending in general.

>>19597601
...

How do you guys feel about mixing med/high fantasy with modern times? What type of fantasy settings do you guys like the most?

Also, am I the only one who fucking HATES "Adventurer guilds" in stories? Like I'm fine with guilds being a thing but adventurer guilds specifically I feel are shit. Why wouldn't there be warrior/mercenary/mage/alchemist, ect guilds and just have them collaborate? Centralizing it into one guild feels like it really hurts the world building and takes away from the story. Like, people could make a request to the local government who then organizes how to deal with it with various guilds. Makes more sense since there'd be accountability and it allows each guild to have their own culture.

>>19597618
I don't know you were expecting. Most of the action only takes part in a relatively small area rather than the entire world though.

Examples fantasy series that do this: A Song of Ice and Fire, First Law, The Masquerade, War for The Rose Throne.

Sci-Fi tends not to take place in secondary worlds as much, so there are far too many to name. Your example seems to be Warhammer, which is an example of that.

>>19597655
>How do you guys feel about mixing med/high fantasy with modern times? What type of fantasy settings do you guys like the most
It is called urban fantasy

>>19597655
>How do you guys feel about mixing med/high fantasy with modern times?
Did you have something in mind other than Urban Fantasy? It doesn't really matter to me as long as I enjoy it.

>What type of fantasy settings do you guys like the most?
It's more like, "which would you like to see more of" for me, which would be that magic is commonly and integral to the daily functioning of life to where what we commonly know as technology isn't really pursued because magic fills that role just as well.


>Also, am I the only one who fucking HATES "Adventurer guilds" in stories?
Just what are you reading that has formal adventurer guilds? That's more of a videogame concept as far as I'm aware. Also, no, I wouldn't hate them.

>make a request to the local government
lolwut. Why would the local government care at all, especially if it's not accountable to the people? Imagine walking into city hall and making requests today. What a jokester you are.

>>19597655
I merely submit this. Doubt any books featuring it exist.

>>19597747
Not unless the author is being really silly if for no other reason than that distance exists and that they'd better be homing spells. It'd be much different than that drawing anyway.

>>19597212
yes

>>19597655
I like magical Engineering. I think I exhausted any easily accessible books that are well written.

Get transported to a magical world? Want a car? Use magic to make it work.
Find ways to store more magic for later use (batteries), etc.

I see a lot of authors are adding small snippets of magical engineering in their books (self published).

>>19597747
I don't think any book that even has that FEEL, which is a damn shame. I wonder, how would you write the story to even allow such a situation to happen?

There's a manga called "Gate - Jietai Kare no Chi nite, Kaku Tatakeri" where a portal opens up in Japan and the government goes in you get a mix of high fantasy with military as they army interacts with the locals. I guess you could also do two planes merging together resulting a natural mix of wizards and modern military and could get some wizards who break into a military base for shits and giggles

>>19597747
It gets shit later on. The author utterly wastes the protagonist potential, alone with another character.

>>19597712
>It is called urban fantasy
Not him but like 90% of all the urban fantasy shit I read are low fantasy settings. Admittedly I haven't read much of them recently but it's always really toned down compared to what I would consider high fantasy settings.

>>19597747
>>19597855
I also read a few other books where the Gov has magical special forces Black OPs, can't recall them atm.

>>19597747
On a different note, this seems to be the original source of this image:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/17371846/#17373070

Since we seem to be in the habit of asking questions - What would you pick for a main character? 1000 year old [insert powerful entity] in the body of a child or a rugged 50 year old man?

Personally, I'm a bit fatigued with the child genius protag who isn't really a genius because they're older than their parents/teachers. I would like a story for once that resolves around some old wisened professional establishing himself in a "New Frontier" type of setting or a story where said man over-throws the status quo. Way too many "child grows up and becomes the next coming of jesus" stories out there. Plus there's more mystery in how the guy got to be so powerful - I guess the difficulty would be from making the main character face genuine challenges.

>>19597862
Can't see how you can mix high fantasy with modern world and not have modern world setting completely absorbed by high fantasy.

>>19597907
You seem to have established a linear relationship between age and power, similar to levels, but that's not really how it works, at least for anything physical. Depending on the setting, the character who is relatively old would have to rely on non-physical activities, so an old powerful wizard or something like that if intended for combat. One of the main reasons for not having characters so old is because of marketing pressures. That simply isn't what most people want to read about, for a variety of reasons. Otherwise, it would have be intrigue or other social activities. That of course assumes that senescence is part of the setting.

>>19597907
Irrelevant. If a character is not dumb and takes advantages of his strenghts and weaknesses, uses wits and intelect to overcome obstacles and is well developed then both are valid choices. It really doesn't matter if one is 50 ir 500 years old.

>>19597157
Damn, I was gonne read this as I expected to enjoy this more than the 1st series.
I'll still give it a go, but my expectations are tempered

>>19597919
One possible example would be that magic only works in a certain area of the world or similar. Trying to bring anything out of it causes it to dissipate. It doesn't have to make sense if it's established as the premise, or really in general.

>>19597971
Of course that doesn't mean that you won't as an individual.

>>19597655
Dresden Files has this mixture of fantasy and modern times. It starts out pretty low-fantasy, but gradually scales up in level.
I enjoyed it somewhat, though it's a pretty big investment, as 17+ books ain't nothing to sniff at.

>>19597987
>>19597971
>>19597157
/sffg/ GR group consensus:
5 stars: 6
4 stars: 9
3 stars: 9
2 stars: 3
1 star: 0
So, really, it's all over the place.

>>19597950
Not him but
>You seem to have established a linear relationship between age and power
>but that's not really how it works
>Depending on the setting
With that qualifier why even post that? Yeah no shit, depending on the setting there can or can't be a relationship between age and power. Dragons in D&D? Infinitely scale in power until they die of old age but are at their most powerful (which isn't really old age, they just get a sense that they should die and do so). You also have cultivation novels where this is generally also true - the older someone else the more powerful they are. The only time old people = weak are failed cultivators. A lot of more modern novels are also implementing the idea that the more powerful a wizard is the more their physical bodies become stronger due to greater mana capacity so wizards are at their most powerful right before their deaths. If anything, especially with more modern literature, there's an exponential curve for the age of someone and how powerful they are, especially the higher the power levels of the story.

>>19598010
Just ignore him.

>>19598010
Yeah, if you're primarily reading self-published works and webfiction that's true, otherwise not really. Everything depends on the setting. It's called context. That didn't seem to be the case.

>>19597997
What type of power level are we talking about in the first book? Like is he a wizard because he can cast cantrips and, if he pushed himself, 1st level spells like 2 times a day?

>>19597987
Oh yeah, I'm not using your experience as a subtitute for my own opinion. I just respect what you do and as such will adjust my expectations accordingly.

>>19597919
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GURPS_Technomancer

A campaign setting for a game not a novel but tl;dr the nuke test sunders reality so now magic is real. The cover is the inverse of >>19597747

>>19598030
Again, you can't really generalize tabletop and videogame concepts to books unless you're reading those that explicitly are based on them.

>>19598037
That's one of the better ways to do it, for sure.

>>19598030
Something like that, if that's your frame of reference. Usually minor effects with some frequency, but the occasional fireball level thing, though that's pretty draining and requires talismans/preparation.

>>19598030
Does Dresden even have power levels? I remember most of his powerups came from new and better equipment (except his winter knight abilities which mostly are like supernatural addrenaline that gives short boost)

>>19598079
I mean, in a general sense Power lever refers to how impressive(?) the powers in play are, so every story has some sort of power level. Thoufgh I agree that, in most part, his power ups come from improved equipment.

>>19598074
>talismans/preparation
>>19598079
>I remember most of his powerups came from new and better equipment
Okay, I'm sold

>>19596616
An ontological mystery is when the characters are trapped in a mysterious location, and over the course of the story we learn what the place is, how they got there, how to escape, etc. It’s a fairly uncommon genre, but the Zero Escape series is probably one of the best examples.

Is there a world where mixing western fantasy with eastern fantasy (stuff like cultivation) melds well? Or is there too much genre knowledge required for both of them to mix. I think it'd be cool to have martial arts sects apprentices get into a fight with the local wizard's tower apprentices but it seems you would have do a lot of explaining

>>19598112
Zero Escape, Danganronpa, and many others are part of the death game genre. That makes me them sound more them more than they are.

>>19598131
So many mistakes there. Oh well.

>>19598114
or if you just want to write utter nonsense and be as cool as possible then no explanations are needed.

>>19598136

>>19598112
It's actually pretty common, though not always the whole selling point. It's more of a theme than a genre, unless you're Borges.

>>19594845
>i-is that a noun i've nver seen before??!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH H-HELP ME NIGGERMAN!!

>>19595868
I enjoyed it thoroughly as well. Wish it didn't veer so hard towards the mundane in the latter half, though.

>>19594310
yes, it's not fantasy but space opera, i personally liked it (not fantasy fan)

Outside of Gene Wolfe, Dunsany, and Tolkien who has the best prose in the game?
I'm getting set to read Jack Vance followed by George Macdonald.

>>19598148
yeah I might be misusing “genre” here

>>19598503
R Scott Bakker is unironically superior as a prose stylist to both Vance an Macdonald.
>inb4 seething retards

What type of start (not specifically chapter 1 but can be if you want to talk about what you like to see in your first chapter) to a fantasy novel do you guys like the most? i.e. Do you like it when it's in the middle of an action sequence (Sparring/fight)? If the MC is in trouble of some sort which spurs on the plot? Or maybe the MC is minding their own business and they somehow get a mcguffin that starts the plot? Or in the middle of some adventure/quest that we find it actually is as the story progresses?

>>19598522
I honest knew that was coming, but if you're serious I'll check him out. I've heard his work is like Berserk.

>>19598503
Eddison and Peake

>>19598556
You've the limit of your allowable writing questions.
>>>/lit/wg

>>19598503
MacDonald, Smith, Peake, Le Guin, Vance, Howard, and Moorcock.

>>19594861
At a risk of a mild spoiler, it's not really a time loop though and it feels varied enough - it's on RoyalRoad (albeit unedited) so you can see if it jives with you free

>>19598600
Sorry, my boss said I need to data collect some more before I can get off the clock

>>19598623
Just go to /wg/ already and stop being a faggot.

>>19598587
Yes, it's the closest thing to Miura's work I've found in any western sff. Very stylized baroque prose which clearly draws heavily from McCarthy, equally Tolkien and Howard, and the KJV.

>>19598636
no

>>19598511
I think that it's more a natural consequence of any speculative fiction that avoids descriptive maximalism. Any story where only the bare minimum is described develops an ontological mystery, one called "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?" Sometimes, like with Wolfe, it is intentional.

>>19592843
Is Journey to the West any good?

Are all fantasy books ultimately nothing more than time wasters? Is there a purpose to even telling these sorts of stories other than childish escapism? Asking this unironically, having an existential crisis over writing my outline.

>>19598783
Only bad ones. I don't see why it's any different than other fiction unless it's just massive wish-fulfillment.

>>19598783
Is all entertainment ultimately nothing more than time wasters? Is there a purpose to entertainment other than childish escapism? Asking this unironically, having an existential crisis over wondering if entertainment is sufficiently meaningful.

>>19598783
Some stories require a fantastic medium to do whatever it is they're supposed to. It's up to the reader whether the nth retread of the monomyth featuring a boy and maybe some dragons is a waste of time.

>>19598783
yes lol. there's a reason why it is looked down on by the lit fic crowd, you're supposed to grow out of it and ideally you never grew into it

>>19597212
A Cavern of Black Ice is better

>>19598829
I heard it's GRI approved?

>>19594095
I self insert in ur mum

>>19597212
The Liveship Traders books are better.

>>19598605
>Smith
Cordwainer?

>>19594417
Echoes Of The Great Song and Morningstar are good standalones, the Jon Shannow, Rigante and Troy books are good trilogies/tetralogy.

Are the Elric of Melnibone books worth reading or are they just edgy?

I just read The Black Company.
What did you think of it?

>>19599374
That's not how it works in this situation. You say what you thought of it first.

>>19599031
I fucking love them. I'm>>19599374
I read the Del Rey edition and charted the short stories to get the chronological order, it was so much fun.
It's not that edgy.

>>19599412
I really like it and especially everybody in it. Croaker almost made me drop the book because the retard was so "in love" with his marysue girlfriend.
It was kind of weird he just threw names at you, but it's novel for me, so I enjoyed it.
I could really live the moment of everything I read.

>>19599374
Black Company>ASOIAF

I've been on a bit of a litrpg grind and I've been trying to find, without much success, a fantasy novel that revolves around territory building and/or crafting. Are there any novels you guys know of that are non-litrpg that have these as main elements? Maybe a novel based around the premise of a 4x game like the Civ games? (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate) I know some light novels that touch on this but looking for something western for once - don't mind self-published works if they're good

>>19599374
Just a heads up for next time, you're supposed to ask what you thought of it. You liked it, will try the sequels, and will either give up on book 2, 3, or you'll read all the way through.

Suggest me a hard sci-fi, with alien life if possible

These two are my favorites btw, would highly suggest both. Especially Dragon's Egg

>>19599579
So empire building? Or at least a similar premise. I want to say Dune but that's not it at all. It's not really my area of interest but I'm sure there has to be something.

>>19599713
>So empire building?
Foundation fits that pretty well.

>>19593573
Standalone would definitely be Emphyrio, but Guyal of Sfere holds a special place in my heart

>>19598783
I'd flip the question and ask you: what is so wrong with wasting time? What is so wrong with leisurely, non-pragmatic pursuits? I don't read fantasy novels for "childish escapism" per se, I read them to bend my mind and to get transported to another world. It's fun and exciting. I know a guy that spends ALL his free time going to a coffee shop after work and reading SFF. Like that is his only hobby and good for him cus it's his life and who gives a shit what others think. Granted, I like sci-fi MUCH more because it has the capacity to be more philosophical and offer up thought experiments. Reddit post over, don't (You) me, don't upvote! :^)

just finished the 3rd black company book,
is the next part worth it?

>>19599813
How's the second book compared to the first?

>>19599813
I think that's a good place to stop, unless you're really into it.

>>19597655
The guildman and the adventurer are diametrically opposed figures. One exists in a complex and regulated framework, the other is the child of fortune and fate. One can contrive some setting in which these two can be loosely married (Made in Abyss), but outside of that they are Ye Olde Renaissance Faire aberrations

Plot - Characters - Setting

Why are there so few novels where all three are good? At best some of them get two right.

>>19599821
i enjoyed it, it's a literal follow up of the story, i like glen's straight forward pace

>>19599822
thanks anon, i think I'll with the third, i feel the story is done and anything else would just be a cash grab

>>19599855
The adventure guild represents a formal outsourcing of labor, usually in an inhospitable hinterland or march, to exploit the fuck out of a colony without wasting military resources. It may as well be the East India Company.

My buddy just got me this for Christmas.

>>19599856
IIRC novellas are more about setting, no? Definitely not about characters.

Where does this rank in the list of best of all time sci-fi novels?

>>19600088
Checked and it is my all-time favorite album, not just sci-fi album. But if I were to round up all of the "top sci-fi books of all time" lists, I would imagine this book is somewhere in the top 20.

>>19599916
Adventurers guilds are based now

>>19600058
Nice. Cherish that friend.

>>19599856
I just want some sci-fi with interesting ideas and characters I enjoy and care about. Any recommendations? Egan, KSR, etc., I love you guys to death but man you can't write characters to save your life.

>>19600058
your buddy is hard gay

>>19596669
Dark Souls pretty explicitly borrows all its aesthetics from Beserk, which has Durer tier great artwork. First few hundred pages is just an intro arc but still good, then the back story starts. It is fantastic.

Not really a manga fan but it's the best from dark there is.

>>19600088
Probably around 20ish.

>>19599856
Delany - Trouble on Triton

>>19598783
All human activity is ultimately nothing more than time wasting. No matter what you do, in the end you'll die like everyone else. Whatever you're wasting your time with in the meantime just serves to put your inevitable fate out of your mind. Such is the human condition. You think writing anything else or nothing at all will save you? Think again.

>>19600638
r*ddit tier bugman nihilist garbage

Vaughn Heppner's Lost Civilizations series was hard to put down.

>>19600098
Album?

>>19600704
I accept your concession.

>>19600721
I meant book. I'm drunk. Almost done with Children of Dune though, thank fuck. Talk about slog of slogs, am I right Bakkerbros?

My favorite album is Yes's Close to the Edge though, thanks for asking.

This was a good series if you like Avatar and Starship troopers

pic

>>19596358
Really odd depiction of typhon imo.

https://princeofnothingblogs.wordpress.com/appendix-n/

>>19598826
Contemptuous and pretentious.

>>19599579
It amazes me how many are determined to try to have concepts that are suitable for one medium but another. Maybe some wouldn't mind it in what they are reading, but a lot of games have many small repetitions of the same actions over and over again. I would think that would be much more boring in prose. It would almost have to be written like a field report summary rather than the characters doing it themselves.

>>19599855
There are a lot of adventurer type guilds in games and other media. The first one that came to mind for me was Arc The Lad. Made in Abyss is more just for recognition since clearly nothing except death prevents them from going however far and there aren't really any helpful functions.

>>19599916
The Fantasy Gig Economy

>>19600067
It depends on the author.

>>19600132
Reading "hard sf" for the characters isn't advisable. Whether you'll care about the characters is entirely a personal matter, so that'd probably be difficult to rec for.

>>19600736
>Close to the edge by Yes
That's a good one. But I'll always think Pink Floyd's Animals is the GOAT as far as classic/prog rock.

>>19601073
I have unironically never given Floyd a shot. I love Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, all that shit that doesn't get you laid in college, and yet I never sat down and listened to a whole Pink Floyd album. I'll try Animals tomorrow, anon.

>>19601097
>>19601073
go back to /mu/

>>19599579
My Doomsday Territory

recommend books like lord of light be zelazny please (that arent more zelazny books)
>"gods", preferably not overused pantheons
>future tech
>nirvana punk
>sick characters

>nirvanapunk

>>19601266
you know in your heart of hearts if you read lord of light that 'nirvanapunk' is a cool ass fucking term for that universe and you're just disappointed you didn't think of it first

>>19601244
I think you would like this, just don't expect it to be as good as Zelazny, because few were. Also check out ...And Call me Conrad/This Immortal if you haven't, it's one of Zelazny's best.

>>19601386
And if you need a reason to read This Immortal, I'd recommend that anybody curious google the 1966 Hugo for best novel (there was a tie that year)

>>19596596
I want to have sex with that cat.

>>19601244
I've heard that creatures of light and darkness is kinda like lord of light but inverse, a fantasy novel with a sci fi veneer(haven't read it so I can't personally vouch)

I have lord of light but it's been kinda hard for me to get into, tbf tho I got it right when I was getting going on Shadow&Claw, and I only got a few pages into the 2nd chapter(I hate how big the chapters are, one of my biggest complaints-I like being able to use chapters as natural checkpoints when reading, a 50 page chapter makes it harder to do that with). I think I read somewhere it gets much better after the first 1/3, I didn't think it was bad but just wasn't drawing me in like New Sun was at that point

Thoughts on Earthsea? Locus ranked it 2nd in fantasy books back in the 90s, just under LotR. I haven't read it so I don't wanna pass judgement yet but I'm amazed it got ranked higher than BoTNS, which got 3rd. On one hand it's ranked highly and Le Guin gets quite a bit of praise, on the other hand the descriptions it gets seem very "current year"(nonwhite characters and protagonist, morality blending, etc). Since it was written before this nonsense era I'm more open but I hate having this race nonsense pushed(imo it's best when not made explicit, I do tend to make my characters White unless otherwise stated and diversity for diversity's sake is fucking obnoxious)

What are the thoughts on here about it? I want a good fantasy read but I'm looking for something a bit less mainstream or with unique elements-no asoiaf, no wheel of time, nothing that seems interchangable with the vast amount of forgettable fantasy releases over the decades

>>19601798
Daniel Greene loves it!

>>19601798
I love it deeply, especially books II and III.
Anons here will seethe; but I think it's really beautiful, simple, poetic fantasy writing that I find graceful and moving. And so did Hiyao Miyazaki of course.

>>19592753
Ender's Game

>>19601798
Read the first book but didn't care enough to keep going. It was full of "and he sailed there and did that, then he sailed to another place and did that, and then he did that, and after that he sailed and did another thing" as far as I can remember, which admittedly it's not much.
I remember quitting just before the ending of the book.

>okay, so its the princess and the frog, but when the frog turns into a man, he RAPES her
>or tries to, because then geralt cuts his head off or whatever
>and then its the Little Mermaid, but the mermaid is actually a LESBIAN and the prince is keeping her locked up
>geralt doesn't kill her. he frees her so she can be with her lesbian lover, and tells the prince you can't deny love, bigot
>okay, one more, it's a succubus, but she's actually just a very ethical prostitute that doesn't kill people. enough to feed but that's it. the man who hired geralt was just mad she didnt really love him

so this is the books that made /v/ nut their jorts, eh?

Daily and gayly reminder that Ender’s Game and Hyperion are the only scifi books worth reading. After those two you may as well just retire from the genre because it’s shit

>>19601901
sounds cringe

>>19601798
I've only read the first one and I'd say it's a great kids novel

>>19601901
They're heavily satirical books. Sometimes they veer into smug trope subverter territory but that's also their strength. Also the English translation is awful and you're SOL if that's the only edition your monolingual ass can read

>>19598783
Because reading bookd like Stoner isn't a waste of time.

>>19599701
Wizards First Rule

>>19602043
TAKE THAT BACK

>>19592922
I didn't even read this post lol

>>19602033
the Finnish translation was quite good

>>19602051
liar

I was on here a few months ago and you guys called me a faggot because my friends recommended to me the Mistborn Series. I read the first book and liked it a lot. It seemed pretty original to me and subverted expectations in a tasteful way that was not over the top. The powers people had were different than other fantasy novels. Overall, it was a very interesting book and I look forward to reading the other two

>>19602715
No I'm not.

>>19602754
faggot

>>19601901
Well, yeah, the books (especially the first 2) rely heavily on subverting folklore/fairy tale tropes, though it's not as pozzed as you make it out to be. That's mostly the Series and the Games, the book is written by a Pole for hell's sake, more likely he'd actively talk shit about modern political issues than anything else.

>>19602754
> The powers people had were different than other fantasy novels
Yeah, that's the major good point Mistborn had going for it: The magic system.
I also don't get the whole vitriol people here have against it. I didn't love it, but I also don't think I wasted my time reading it.
> I look forward to reading the other two
Good for you anon.

>>19602754
I feel like Sanderson is somewhat ok at doing worldbuilding and setting up magic systems and what not. However, the moment characters start talking it all just turns to shit. I just don't like his prose

>>19602754
Sanderson is good. People are just being contrarian because they think that's what you are supposed to do in 4chan.

>>19601386
>This Immortal
>good
how so? i thought it wasn't very original or engaging, had some of the edginess that worked in Lord of Light but none of the good prose, engaging story or interesting characters

>>19592897
They absolutely are not

Is the Witcher just shit or is it me?

Can anyone recommend me a book that deals with themes of apotheosis, to give a couple of examples: people committing forbidden rituals in search of power, assimilating with a powerful ai/hivemind, etc. I am in mood for something morbidly quasi-religious.

>>19604294
> Is the Witcher just shit or is it me?
idk, I enjoyed a lot. Maybe you have shit taste. Maybe I have shit taste. Maybe we all have shit taste and the only true good taste are Goodkind enjoyers. We'll never truly know.

>>19604294
The short stories and the games are ok.

>>19604323
Unironically The Second Apocalypse by R. Scott Bakker will fit your needs precisely.

>>19604294
I'll preface with this: I've never read the books and just played the games.
HOWEVER
Witcher is great when it comes to monster of the week story beats and stays at a low power level. I find that it quickly becomes shit when the focus is on human on human interactions that doesn't include monsters. It's why I got tired of the games towards the end but really liked the exploring aspect and fighting monsters.

>>19594728
A Thousand Li is decent.
>but it takes 5 books before you get invested
just pirate them like I do, at least it's nice to see the author continually improving, 1-4 is the first arc, and 5 was kickass. maybe the slow pacing could account for the low interest in the earliier books as well
>but it's so slow
No shit, it's more focused on inner growth/development over rampant power progression and the MC is actually, for once, more important than the world at large.

A fun progression story to read is Everybody Loves Large Chests. It's so fucking silly.

>>19594807
Bloodline was a big disappointment.

>>19594847
Is there anything by IET worth reading besides Coiling Dragon, Desolate Era, and Stellar Transformations?

is there a sci-fi where EARTH NIGGERS meet ALIEN VERSION OF NIGGERS. AND THEY CREATE A SPACE PROJECTS. THEY EXCHANGE LIVED EXPERIENCES AS NIGGERS ON THEIR WORLDS AND EVOLVE INTO SOMETHING MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WHITE PEOPLE WHEN THEY COME BACK TO EARTH.

>>19604719
My nigga this is is the fantasy general, if you want books like that you just have to look at real life, nawmsain?

>>19595868
This is the first time I've ever seen 'ontological mystery' mentioned outside of a niche EVN discord I sit in.
Read A Maze of Death by PKD.

>>19604738
are you saying we wuz kangz?

>>19599701
the last legends of earth :)

>>19604750
DAS RITE

>>19604741
sure, I’ll check it out

>>19604705
>IET
I could not get into any of his works. His writing is absolutely terrible, a person who never wrote anything in his life probably can come with better dialogues, better interactions between characters and better overall pacing. I don't understand why IET is so highly regarded.

>>19599701
Blindsight
Tau Zero (no aliens but really good in my opinion)

How's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? I've been eyeing a new series to read for when I'm done with The Second Apocalypse and this one looks interesting, I mainly want to read it to see where the influences, and where George drew a lot of inspiration for ASOIAF.

>>19604981
Very different than ASOIAF.
It draws classical Hero's Journey arcs, and has almost no twists or main character deaths or even much political intrigue.
Instead it has a really authentic world, achieved by having a slow pace that can flesh out the few fantastical elements so much that they feel authentic. This gives it a charm that is closer to Tolkien on a good day.
Also it has some kino dialogues about their version of basically Christianity, the great knight Camaris for example has a few heavy lines.
So at the end of the day it only shares the basic setup of snow mongos in the north as the threat, and a fantasy map that is remixed medieval europe with Mongols somewhere with ASOIAF.
I like Memory, Sorrow and Thorne a lot and read everything including the new Witchwood Crown stuff but I dropped ASOIAF after the first book.

>>19604294
It's the English translation if you're reading it in English. That said, the novels kinda spin their wheels for a couple of books too

>>19592871
>>19592883
>>19592897
>>19595382
>>19601869
Thanks for the recommendations.

>>19594728
Love Cradle. Sad to see so many people get filtered by Bloodline.

I haven't found anything comparable yet. Translated webnovels tend to be pretty trashy and no one in the West actually picked up on what makes Cradle good.

>>19595868
Same, I saw some praise for it, was drawn in by the dreamlike description of the House in the blurb, and ended up reading the whole thing straight through in one sitting last night. I wasn't even very far into it when I started to feel really moved. "Question: when I feel myself about to die, ought I to go and lie down with the People of the Alcove?" And then, the Folded-Up Child. Going back to pull that quote I realized both of those were in what was only the third diary entry, wow.
The book does kind of crushingly bring you back down to Earth as it goes on, after giving you just enough time to fall in love with Piranesi, but I don't mind the contrast. It helped make more clear what was meaningful in the first place. Even as the plot starts racing towards the climax, with the text even giving us a specific one week timeline, Piranesi spends several crucial days just moving bones to keep his "People" safe.
I was pleasantly surprised with the end, too, as not-quite-Matthew gets to return to the House with Sarah and even poor Jimmy whenever they want.

>>19605412
Cradle suffers from recent western trends like inclusivity and catering for all. Having so many female characters, having romance subplot that is almost main plot (having romance in the first place), can't remember if there were blacks in previous books but they will most likely be introduced soon, same with fags and other progressive ideas. What makes cultivation fantasy good is having none of that garbage.

>>19595868
>>19605441
>Piranesi
Is it really good? I remember people here were shit talking it.

>>19605412
Sad to see Will stagnate after Ghostwater and never change as a writer. Sad to see so many fans love smearing Bloody shit on their faces.

Do you guys know of any 'trusted' reviewers of SSF? I don't want to read tons of praise for the next big thing by people who only ever read fantasy novels. Nothing wrong with that but 'great literature' more often than not justifies the labels and the inclusion in a literary canon.
I've read my fair share as a teen as well and occasionally still do so, but it's comfort food, it's a snack and - unfortunately - not serious.
So what else do the people in this thread read? Do you know of a Bloom-type guy who occasionally ventures forth into genre territory? Given what I just said, how do some of the greats really hold up? I enjoyed Dick and I think he has some literary merit, same with William Gibson. What about Clarke, Joe Abercrombie's First Law series, Book of the New Sun and R. Scott Bakker who's being incessantly shilled on here?
(Note I'm not talking specifically about already 'acclaimed' genre-adjacent novels like Master and Margarita, but recommendations are appreciated nontheless.)

>>19605466
Maybe it was the poster immediately above you, who threw the book across the room in disgust when it was revealed (by implication) about 90% of the way through the book that Piranesi had been half-black the whole time.

But seriously, it's a weird little book, I can see it not being everyone's cup of tea, but it's only like 200 pages, and it's the kind of thing you can just let "wash over you" like the sea in the story. The first couple of chapters might seem overwhelming with all the longwinded dates and cartographical detail about the locations of things in the House, but the reader doesn't need to keep track of any of that.
Thematically there's a lot going on. Some House of Leaves vibes, some survivalist literature, some paganism (or at least animism), and more that would be too spoilery for me to say while recommending the book.

>>19605501
>Do you guys know of any 'trusted' reviewers of SSF?
No, I read books and form my own opinion on the matter.

>>19605504
I’m going to read it soon, just wanted to know why it was so divisive on /sffg/.

>>19600759

scalzi is fucking awful
literally discount RKM and RKM is already dollar-store territory.

>>19605526
>scalzi is fucking awful
How is he awful? I think he does okay in what he writes.

>>19596669
It's my favorite fuckin gaaaaame
Dark
Souuulsssssss

New thread
>>19605546

>>19605501
Are you looking for serious reviews of those books or for anons' casual opinions?
For years I turned up my nose at Bakker, who I honestly assumed was being shilled here as a joke because of how self-superior and opaque his novels are, and because I don't generally have any interest in "fantasy" in the first place, but in 2020 I finally devoured all 7 (so far) of his doorstoppers and was only really disappointed that the series wasn't actually as finished as I thought it was. But I'm also the kind of sci-fi reader who gets as much of a joy from contemplating "deep history" as I do from the distant future. It would be difficult for me not to love a series set in such a richly built world with at least ten thousand years of fully fleshed out history.

Another title on the "literary" side of the genre that I expected you to mention, but didn't, would be the Hyperion Cantos. It has been a while since I read the books, but I recall feeling that they held up much better than Clarke, for example.

>>19605553
Both. But I'd appreciate it if anons added what classics they've read. In the end it's all subjective and I'm not trying to be the arbiter of quality, but Schiller evokes vastly different emotions than random author X who has orcs and humans murder each other. Of course I'm vastly simplifying but aside from an illuminating look at the human condition and a certain kind of timelessness 'the classics' often times do have exceptional stylistic qualities whereas it seems genre novels are mostly plot driven.
Just name-dropping a few authors: Hemingway, Kafka, Goethe, Schiller, Nabokov, Homer, Sophokles, Conrad, Büchner, Kleist, Brecht, Tolstoi, Dostojevski, Lessing, Ishiguro, Beckett, Shakespeare, Hesse, Miller, Hartmann von Aue, Wolfram von Eschenbach
>>19605508
If only there was more time in this world to truly read all the books...

>>19595387
Rothfuss is a fag.

don't waste your time, >>19594695

>>19605461
>>19605467
Pathetic.