/lit/ - Literature

>blah, blah, blah

grow up retard, it's just a phase(hopefully)

>>19566083
care to extrapolate

>>19566068
I don't understand this mindset at all. If there is no afterlife, why waste all your time alive feeling bad about it? Just do what you want.

>>19566099
>why waste all your time alive feeling bad about it
i can't just choose how i feel

>>19566111
It's easier than you might think

>>19566119
>break up
>feel sad
>get in a car accident
>feel scared
>believe that life is meaningless
>feel queer (not in a gay way)
my emotions are responses to my environment, and if my mental environment is one of meaningless then of course i will feel bad. the only way to change how i feel is to change what i think, and i cannot change how i think without something that can change my understanding
if i could choose to be happy i would

>>19566139
>>feel queer (not in a gay way)
You sure about that? Keep suffering, you obviously get some perverse enjoyment from it

>>19566233
life is suffering, and we keep living. maybe everyone gets perverse enjoyment from it

Nietzsche, namely the Gay Science

>>19566250
i've actually never read nietzsche mainly because i've heard that it's really nihilistic and it's the absolute opposite of what i want. The closest thing I can seem to get to is absurdism. I was in a restaurant the other day and saw a completely piss drunk man trying to talk to a spanish speaking employee taking his order, and neither of them could understand the other but they just kept pretending that they could. the drunk guy would ramble some drunk shit, and the employee would act like he was thinking about what he said and then asking him a question about his order, which the drunk guy couldn't understand because he was blasted but he'd pretend to and just bullshit some response and they just kept playing along and it almost bust my gut laughing after i got to my car. moments like that are the only reason i have not yet killed myslef

>>19566068
>I feel like our consciousness is just a layer of abstraction and an illusion that allows are body to process the information coming from its senses.
Well don't be sure sure anon. There is a debate happening 20 minutes from now. Please give it go because these two philosophers are brilliant for both schools. Check it out you might get new insight from Kastrup

Get the fuck in here, anon

>>19566163
>>19566163
>>19566163
>>19566163

>>19566330
oh snap thanks fren

>>19566281
are you vaccinated? your answer is required so that everyone who is truly enlightened and really knows what to say and recommend has no reservations about whether or not posting in this thread is worth even the smallest amount of their time. this holds true for any other posters who post similar threads. i am almost certain i already know your answer but just go ahead and post it here because we want there to be no doubt at all for anyone.

>>19566281
Nietzsche rails against nihilism

>>19566455
Against my will, yes. My sister who I hadn't seen in over a year was going to visit, but said she wouldn't unless I got vaxxed. Since me and my parents live all in similar areas, that meant if I didn't get the vax then neither of my parents worked get to see my sister either, and they really would've been upset so I caved and got the vaccine. Subsequently I had a bad time and have now set the boundary that I won't get another shot or booster. If I had any choice I wouldn't have gotten it but I was in a position where I had to take it or my entire family would be upset. They're progressive npr listening antifa cheering people which is a bummer sometimes since I feel like I can't speak openly with them for fear of speaking heresy
>>19566508
Ok I'll check him out then. Reading philosophers intimidates me, even though my grandfather used to constantly talk about Aristotle and Socrates. I think I tried reading Camus once, and I really really like r Scott Bakker's books but I'm always of being to much of a brainlet to handle reading philosophy, especially without someone irl to bounce my thoughts off of

>>19566068
epicureanism wikipedia page

>>19566648
>Subsequently I had a bad time
Have you never gotten a vaccine before? Most of the time you feel kinda shit afterwards

>>19566648
>They're progressive npr listening antifa cheering people which is a bummer sometimes since I feel like I can't speak openly with them for fear of speaking heresy
lmao

>>19566660
No I mean like went to the hospital twice bad time, and then had a ton of psychological distress afterwards followed by a couple months in a psych ward basically. Being forced to get vaxxed unironically triggered some PTSD from getting raped because of the feeling of loss of control and bodily autonomy, not to mention the penetration and parallels between a phallus ejaculating and a needle injecting

>>19566508
He rails against asceticism while affirming that all values are subjective etc.

>>19566685
Well that's your problem

>>19566693
Nihilism isn't just "when all values are subjective." Good god do you people even read?

>>19566083
Wow you refuted him dude.

>>19566685
>traumatized as fuck to the point where being pricked with a tiny needle reminds you of the intense trauma of being raped
>but why am I struggling bros?

I say this with kindness and not with the intent to be mean or reductionist in any way, but I think you should go to therapy. I also felt like this my whole life because of being molested as a kid. I have a therapist and partner and social circle that help me through it. Not saying you shouldn’t find some new philosophy—if better read anons have answers I’ll be reading them too. But that’s the advice I have. Take care, anon.

>>19566772
Moral nihilism is when "morality doesn't exist" or "nothing is right or wrong" ...
But there are two acceptions of nihilism and one equates nihilism with asceticism.

>>19566281
My understanding of absurdism is that it and nihilism are pretty much the same

>>19566139
>my emotions are responses to my environment
then control your environment to feel things you like feeling

>>19566068
>we are just essentially chemical computers
Good fuck whoever came up with this cringe horseshit should be burned alive. It's worse than Plato's "featherless biped". You should feel ashamed for using such grade-A fedora-speak.

>>19566068
There is no cure, only the movement of nihilism and life, the negation of the future into the past, all time is a becoming, what are you becoming?

"Move forward with Faith, and knowledge will come." - d'Alembert

>>19566068
The Bible.
If you don't truly get it, you've been filtered.
If you try to posit any bullshit paper-thin argument I'll reach through the screen and slap you.

>>19566068
>To our less philosophical readers, for example, it is now clear that the so passionate Teufelsdrockh precipitated through "a shivered Universe" in this extraordinary way, has only one of three things which he can next do: Establish himself in Bedlam; begin writing Satanic Poetry; or blow out his brains.

>>19566068
Daodejing

>>19566068
Brothers Karamazov, easily. One of my favorite books by a wide margin.

>>19566139
>my emotions are responses to my environment
One can change their responses in spite of what their environment would have them do. Just takes practice and willpower.
>>19566281
Even if you think you won't agree with Neetch you should read him to articulate WHY you don't.
>>19570366
I preferred Leibniz's "Divine Machine".

>>19571593
>willpower
We are talking deterministic materialism here, try to keep up

>>19567616
thanks, I've done dbt therapy in the past and have an appointment for intake with one in a couple weeks. hopefully it goes well

>>19569456
yeah i mean i stay in my room being comfy most of the time but i feel bad about it

>>19570366
how are we not just automatons though? like it feels like living things are existing just for the sake of continuing to exist. Sating hunger and more generally avoiding pain are the two things drive us on a lizard level, serving the purpose of self preservation. we developed the ability to move because doing so allowed us to sate hunger more effectively. our eyes/brain connection developed for an extremely long time for an extremely specific purpose, taking in radiation and then processing the data and make use of it. eventually, the complexity of the data and the speed at which it needed to processed and the storage and referencing grew to the point that the system needed a layer of abstraction to function and the mind/consciousness is just the resultant product. Consciousness is like being high, but it's just your normal state.

idk it feels like life is ultimately destined to die out one day because of entropic forces and the universe will just be a cold empty place and since that is inevitably the outcome then why do anything? why prolong the inevitable death? This cold universive is the only thing that has existed or will exist, and life is just a flickering fire that will die one day and things will be as they were before. I hate that i think this way but literally cannot not think this without the things i feel are true

if these thoughts are to be ashamed of, what would you say are thoughts to be admired?

>>19570407
>just trust a book written by people who definitely had no ulterior motives when writing it
slap me daddy uwu

>>19571593
i'll check it out, i read c&p in high school and thought it was ok. my mum thinks it's too heavy though, iirc her favourite book is hotel new hampshire
>Even if you think you won't agree with Neetch you should read him to articulate WHY you don't.
oh fair point.

you don't need a book, you need some magic mushrooms

it will show you what you need to see

>>19566068
Read Dostoyevsky, I’d start with the notes from underground, take your time and think

How does being made out of chemicals lessen the magic of being? Also you cant prove any scientific knowledge is accurate besides perhaps math since they all come from the senses. What is meaning for you? Everything you expirience external to your thoughts can be argued as possibly false and inchomprehendable and yet you still exist and act upon desires and thoughts that you dont even know of. The world is a rationally incomprehendable mess. My suggestion is to read philosophy, from the Greeks onwards to Nietzsche, Stirner, etc. I was on the verge of suicide until I started exerting great effort towards learning philo and math (my major). All emergant properties are built upon other more base properties, but the fact that they are not a singular entity does not classify from their realness.

>>19572251
Take away* not classify.

>>19566083
cope and seethe

>>19566068
even if there was an objective "meaning" to life and you knew without a doubt what it was, why do you think that would make anything better? what if the meaning was stupid? if you think a game is shit but the devs sit down with you and explain what they were going for, so what? you might still think it's a shit game.

instead of spinning your wheels obsessing about how there is no point, embrace the pointlessness and try to find a way to live a fulfilling life despite it. every autumn tens of thousands of people attend MLB games for teams that are already mathematically eliminated from contention. Objectively speaking, there is no "meaning" to those games, they are just finishing out the season because it was scheduled. Yet, the people in attendance not only go to the game knowing full well it is meaningless, most of them outright enjoy themselves, soaking up the atmosphere, having a beer with friends, talking about nerdy stats. Try to apply this attitude to your entire life and you can begin to get where you need to be.

Oh my, why anybody didn't recommended you Kierkegaard? You truly should read some of his works, "Fear and Trembling" for example. Dostoevsky's "Brothers Karamazov" also are great - it shows also some things about orthodox christianity.

>>19566068
>I feel very strongly that nothing matters
try beginning to define 'what' "matters" and soon you'll realize this kind of thought process derives itself from the impotent pseudo-life of the western middle class and its incessant infantile christianity-derived need for moral post-facto affirmation and rationalization from an external source for the sheer phenomenon of being. genuinely just try going outside and talking to people and living in the world, or, if that fails, begin studying buddhism.
if you don't get past this mental barrier because you want to cling to sensual comfort and want to ignore truth... well! might as well join the transhumanist cult developing as of late that's being encouraged by insane old people afraid of death because you're clearly nothing but a human resource to be used and excreted by world systems. this isn't even a rhetorical "HAH! look at you. KYS" sort of post, i'm genuinely serious. don't even pretend towards wanting dignity or rights or whatever if you cannot get past this "chemical computers" phase because hey, that's very much what the world and its power structures want from you, an atomized individual incapable of resisting that believes the values it espouses implicitly through its organization of society.
>>just trust a book written by people who definitely had no ulterior motives when writing it
>slap me daddy uwu
all language you learn, the phenomenon of language itself, is a result of "ulterior motives" - you were 'taught' language to get you to be able to generally communicate, which is to get you to be able to socialize and interpret information, which is to get you to be able to be used for the purpose of the continuation of societal projects long set into motion before you were even a zygote in your father's testicle through manipulation of your 'unique' biology (ie unique in that human biologies naturally differ, this difference being needed to sift through in order for maximum economic exploitation of the organism to occur). you want to ignore that anon's advice of reading the bible (or even any religious text, really) because you think your genuinely teenager-tier stumbling onto and understanding of deterministic materialism can refute it by positing it as a socio-historical phenomenon implicitly bent on control much like all "ideologies"? well... on to the hivemind then for you!

>>19566068
Information is not what's going to save you anon. It's marriage, making children and a family. You already suffer from too much information.

If you dont' beleive in god then you are the product of evolution and evolution is geared towards one thing: reproduction.

So do what you are designed to do.

>>19566068
You should unironically just get a hobby and go outside. The kind of people who fall for nihilism are the people who follow individualism and consumerism only to find out climbing corporate ladder and consuming products doesn't make them happy. No creative curiosity, no child-like innocence, no idealism, no soul.

There is so much world available to you. If you were curious enough you would seek wisdom, experience, beauty. There is so much out there and you decide to reduce everything to "lol nothing matters :("

>>19572197
I've never done mushrooms, but i've wanted to try them. my sister does them and really has enjoyed them from what i can tell, but i'm afraid that my mental health is not stable enough for them. I did salvia a couple of times, one of which was while really high from a brownie as well, and it was not great for my mental health at all. Brought up a lot of pain that I'd pushed down, and it all came up at once. Had very intense depersonalization and derealization that literally lasted for years straight, instead of what had previously been just mild episodes. it made my eating disorder worse too

>>19572216
I will check it out, ty

>>19572251
>Also you cant prove any scientific knowledge is accurate besides perhaps math since they all come from the senses
idk i think that senses ultimately can be trusted as much as anything else, since what our senses tell us seem to be consistent across different consciousnesses and the things we see seem to be consistent through time and space.
>What is meaning for you?
i'm not sure, i think it would like a reason for something. a drive. a purpose. As I stand, it seems that the purpose/drive/reason/meaning for life is the continuation of life.
>yet you still exist and act upon desires and thoughts that you dont even know of
i know, I can have these thoughts about the meaninglessness of life and such but I still cannot bring myself to kill myself because I don't want to die because of the survival instinct ingrained into my brain as a living creature. I care about my family because I'm hardwired to do so, but I can still recognize the lack of permanence in doing so. What meaning is there in trying to write in water, when everything washes away?
>philosophy from greeks to nietzsche
any good starting places?

>>19572417
language serves a purpose that serves everyone, christianity serves a purpose that serves only jews. if the abrahamic god were truly universal, would we not see all religions evolving along similar lines? would not the religious practices and revelations be the same, if they were coming from one source? why would a universal truth be revealed to only one group?

>>19572462
i'm sterile since birth :(

>>19572483
I don't follow individualism or capitalism though, I hate corporations and products and shit.
>go outside find the world
outside is pain. life is just a series of traumatic experiences. Sometimes I get tired of isolating and throw myself into situations that i know will traumatize me just so i can feel life more vividly and know that at least some moments won't fade into oblivion like the vast majority of my lived life. people abandon you, shame you, use you etc. I just don't want to feel any more pain, i've had enough of it. Enough heartbreak, enough loss, enough abusive relationships, and it just is frustrating to have to put up with so many negative experiences just to be able to experience the much much rarer and far more fleeting positive ones idk.

>>19566693
nihilism isnt the problem. losing value of life is, and it just so happens that today nihilism causes that loss of value. nietzsche can stop that.

it is funny though, thinking about it using 4chan is a lot like life
>it sucks a lot of the time
>won't remember most posts or threads
>but special threads and memories make it worth it
like when i was a teenager posting on /x/ in creepypasta threads and reading them out loud to make recordings to share with anons that shit was great, or when kyle odom happened, or sandy hook, or the zimmerman trial, shit like that was great but ephemeral. idk, maybe i'm just getting nostalgic in my old age

>>19573520
>nietzsche can stop that
It's not working if you haven't noticed.

>>19572483
>You should unironically just get a hobby and go outside
I have a hobby I'm so involved with I've won contests. I have a large social circle.

Nihilism is closer to correct than most takes.
Well, actually pessimism is correct, but OP was close. You don't have to be a loser to lose bigly. We all lose.

>inb4 middle school
I'm pushing closer to 40 than I'd like, kiddo.

>>19573542
>nostalgia for a mass shooting
Maybe normal people are right about 4chan

>>19573490
>>go outside find the world
outside is pain. life is just a series of traumatic experiences. Sometimes I get tired of isolating and throw myself into situations that i know will traumatize me just so i can feel life more vividly and know that at least some moments won't fade into oblivion like the vast majority of my lived life.

Bro you need to start lifting fr

>>19566099
It's the year 2021, we are the most advanced species in the known world with a brain to match. Don't say robotic, lobotomy shit. Reminds me of:
>if you no happy, why you no die yourself D:

>>19566068
cioran - on the heights of despair

I can tell you spend wayy too much time here.
Maybe start reading instead of browsing 4chan