/lit/ - Literature

>But but but, you made the thread too soon!

We don't care, Moogy boy.

Appreciate Goodkind

Threadly reminder to read Bakker. Start with The Darkness That Comes Before. The Second Apocalypse series is part of the /sffg/ canon. Not understanding Bakker memes renders you blind to most of the relevant discussion that goes on here.

>>19563663
the true fantasy philospher king. richard would dominate that gay sissy kellhus so hard.

I've been hearing really good things about the Monarchies of God series, any anons here read it? Would you recommend it?

>>19563673
>>19563663
I am not sure if this is some Moogy false flag or not because never before has anyone been this adamant about Terry and he seems to really like shitposting, just like Moogy.

>>19563677
I've never head of that before. Also I'm pretty sure most of Erikson's revenue comes from giving vague praises to book covers.

>>19563678

>>19563671

>>19563594
>Something is clearly Woke in her writing.
Le Guin is that sort of a hippie-age spiritualist succdem who's writing quite about muh internal flaws, muh balance, muh peace, muh making amends. She's also the epitome of "women writing", in a bad way - meaning a strong fixation on character reflection and drama.

What twists this shit the other way around is:
1. She's actually fucking good at writing settings, plots, characters and interactions. Not just conceiving them, but describing them in text in such a way that you actually fucking enjoy reading it holy shit this skill is SO FUCKING RARE in sci-fi, and she's objectively good even for the legit-literature scale, not just SF&F one.
2. She does measure her own fixation on drama and introspection, and manages to implement it in such a way that it works to make her key characters flawed, believable and human.
3. She legit respects and heavily draws upon classical themes and mythology, so her works are, in fact, comfy old-school badass adventures, not Vaginal Tractates.

The latter might be why woketards don't actually read her.

>>19563680
kek, speaking of which...

maybe he's just the only fantasy author who reads/new stuff

>>19563678

>>19563691
Yes, we know you use a VPN. You don't have to prove it.

>>19563699
Yes, I know it is on Bakker's books as well, but so it is in so many others as well. But the level of praise he gives to so many books is ridiculous.

I closed the browser tab that had the previous /sffg/ open now that it is irrelevant.

>>19563709

>>19563696
Are you a woman?

>>19563734
Bait.
>>19563696
Is actually a quality post.

King of /sffg/.

Simple as.

>>19563734
No. Women don't understand the concept of "writing like a women" and what can be wrong about it.

How do I cope with that empty feeling after finishing my fantasy novel?
I just binged 3000 pages because of quarantine and now I cannot help but feel depressed.
Is it because I just need to read more different novels?
I thought I could escape my isolation but now it hits even harder.

>>19563764
The correct answer depends HIGHLY on what is it you have read.

>>19563764
I know that feel. I usually just sulk for about a week depending on how good the last book was, and then find something else to read that seems interesting enough.

>>19563678
I'm not moogy and I don't pay attention to gay 4chan discord drama. I just wanted to make a stupid shitpost about goodkind. I was complaining about his book in the last thread. I think you need to take your sissy bimbo meds you're acting crazy.

>>19563764
You only read 3000 pages during the quarantine? Also there hasn't been "quarantine" since 2020, you're just using that as an excuse for being a neet.

>>19563791
>make shitpost
>get called for shitposting
???

How goes publishing, writer frens? Definitely feels like markets have been slower to respond this year than 2020. Am I imagining that?

>>19563802
this is not the writing general /wg/ which is ALSO OP'd by Moogy if you can believe that.

but to answer your question, I am 20 % done for Draft 1 so I am a long way off from completing a manuscript.

>>19563810
How long did that 20% take?

>>19563800
>Also there hasn't been "quarantine" since 2020, you're just using that as an excuse for being a neet.
The U.S. is not the entire world, you know?

>>19563764
What did you read? Because there's always another novel. It wouldn't hurt to do other things as well, you know?

>>19563820
About 25 days. I am aiming for 120k words and I have been writing around 1000 words a day in average-

>>19563766
I've read Mother of Learning. its was my first web novel and I wanted to read something with lots of magic
I tried prince of nothing before that but all those names/scenes and switches was just too much for my fever head. I still got covid after all.
I really enjoyed it though and I've read that its a good web novel but not good compared to "real" novels.
I thought about readong Harry potter and the methods of rationality next cause I heard its kinda the same genre.
>>19563768
Yes I thought so too. I used to do this with series/animes but I recently started reading as a hobby.
But It just makes it more empty, the only cope after finishing a book it to read more books seems rather unhealthy. trying to escape my escapism with even more escaping.
I thought reading a entertaining novel would give me something, but it just leaves me empty instead.

>>19563800
>You only read 3000 pages
I'm in quarantine for the last week. And I thought i should start reading instead of wathcing netflix allday.
>>19563821
>What did you read? Because there's always another novel. It wouldn't hurt to do other things as well, you know?
Mother of Learning, and yes I should do other things. My real life isnt looking as good as is should be. Maybe I should start reading non-fction and start with the greeks like I always wanted to. I'm very intrested in philosphie and history but It's a rather daunting task.

>>19563821
There's no quarantine in 2021 unless you were quarantined for travel or something.

>>19563830
Not bad, not bad.

>>19563839
>Web novel
We found your problem.
>I tried PoN
So you are either filtered or you need to try again.
>Its not good compared to real novels
True, so why torture yourself?
>I thought about readong Harry potter and the methods of rationality next cause I heard its kinda the same genre.
Methods of Rationality is some of the most cringe things I've ever seen.

>has read anime
You really need to get rid of anything anime-like

>>19563854
>True, so why torture yourself?
I still enjoyed it.
>So you are either filtered or you need to try again.
I know bakker is a meme because I lurked here the whole week to get some insights, but getting into it was really hard.
I've felt like there was nothing happening in the beginning and I was just reading it to learn some foreign sounding names. What's the appeal of it for you anons anyway?

Also I can list some fiction that I've read over the last year.
Lord of the Rings (Audiobook by Phil which I really enjoyed)
Locke Lamorre (enjoyed that too)
Kings Dark Tidings (A bit boring but very easy to listen too)
Prince of Nothing (About third of the book)

>>19563839
Don't listen to >>19563854.
There's nothing wrong with reading some weeb shit every once in a while to take a break and have some mindless fun. Though I do agree that there is plenty of stuff out there that is way more fulfilling and interesting, so I recommend looking around for something that intertests you.
> I tried prince of nothing before that but all those names/scenes and switches was just too much for my fever head
Understandable. Sometimes you're just not in the right mood, and it seems like you're somewhat new to fantasy reading, so there's nothing wrong with working your way up to more complicated books.
> I thought reading a entertaining novel would give me something, but it just leaves me empty instead.
Well, if you're left empty by the novel it's because you somehow managed to connect to it, and that means it somehow impacted you. So be glad for the emptiness, because it means you found something special to you. Cherish that feeling and when yiu're ready, move on to something new.

>>19563874
Shut the fuck up nigger you are way too understanding to someone who is quite literally not able to enjoy proper books.

>>19563873
>Locke Lamorre
Have you read the sequels? They aren't as good as the first one, but considering The Lies of Locke Lamorra is in my top 5 fantasy novels, they are still pretty good.

>>19563873
>Locke Lamorre

>>19563884
Thanks, I'm sure it was meant for >>19563874
and not for me.

>>19563873
>I still enjoyed it.
This is alarmind.
>I've felt like there was nothing happening in the beginning and I was just reading it to learn some foreign sounding names. What's the appeal of it for you anons anyway?
Oh no my poor baby did something grand not happen in the first few pages? Oh no my poor poor baby was not everything explicitly explained to you every time a new word was written?

>>19563890
PUBLISH THE 4th BOOK ALREADY YOU FUCKING KEK

>>19563874
Obvious false flag.

>>19563874
>Well, if you're left empty by the novel it's because you somehow managed to connect to it, and that means it somehow impacted you. So be glad for the emptiness, because it means you found something special to you.
I would agree with you there if it were some insight or other improvement I coulc have for my personal developement.
But it's just another wake up call that my escapism isnt healthy and I shouldnt read novels like this and rather concentrate on my life.
I think it would be healthy if I know I could share that novel with friends and family, even give it to my children and see them engaged.
But alas, it's just a reminder that I'm a lonely guy,

>>19563889
yes I've read all. and I agree I liked the first one the most, had the most emotinal impact and story twists.
Though I didnt know it wasnt open ended when I started reading it. I really hate reading unfinished books.
It's weird how I want a novel to never end and endlessly escape into that world. But one thing worse than finished a novel is finishing an unfinished novel.

>>19563883
> You're a new reader? You should definitely pick up this series which is good because it's dense and filled with symbolism
> What? You weren't able to appreciate the subtleties nor go through the dense text because you lack the literary experience? You must be retarded

>'Ate chinkshit
>'Ate manga
>'Ate progression fantasy
>'Ate litRPG
>'Ate anime
>'Ate Reverend Insanity
>'Ate Sanderson
>'Ate Moogy
>'Ate Cradle
>'Ate trannies
>'Luv the OP
>'Ate Xianxia
>'Ate wuxia
>'Ate self-publishing
>'Ate webnovels

Simple as

>>19563894
>Oh no my poor baby did something grand not happen in the first few pages? Oh no my poor poor baby was not everything explicitly explained to you every time a new word was written?
yes, thats what i wrote earlier!? Is that the appeal for you then? You like it when nothing happens and everything is too complicated to understand and you have to look it up?

>>19563914
>>19563905
Ok, I take back my previous encouragment, this is stating to sound a tad too pathetic for my taste.
Stop blogposting, get to reading.

>>19563922
>You need to read other completely unrelated books to read this one other fantasy books because its apparently not written in English or it references other books.
You only need a capable human mind to appreciate a good book.

>>19563925
Oh no! Did you have to use the big dictionary book? The one with A LOT of difficult words? Have you considered watching PO-KE-MON?

>>19563927
>Stop blogposting, get to reading.
Ok I will.
What should I read next then?

>>19563934
Book of the New Sun
The Darkness That Comes Before
A Wizard of Earthsea
Dune

>>19563927
Funny how Bakkerchads are always right, it seemed it was no surprise it was an idiot who was reading webnovels.

>>19563931
>You only need a capable human mind to appreciate a good book.
> What are literary references
> What is having the experience to recognize how this work expands on the genre
> What is reading better because you have more maturity and experience as a reader
Sure, anyone can appreciate the book, but you sure as hell will have an easier time at it if you have the proper baggage.

>>19563947
And you think shit-tier webnovels are the proper way to start? No, please! Do enlighten all of us, give us the thorough road map from easy-to-read fantasy to hard-to-understand.

>>19563934
If you had issues with prince of nothing, ignore >>19563938, except for Earthsea.

>>19563931
Are you telling me women like this are into guys thar read bakker?
I'm convinced I'll give it another try

>>19563961
As in, if you were too dumb to appreciate PoN, the other titles might also be too cerebral for you, but Earthsea is simple enough. :)

>>19563957
>give us the thorough road map from easy-to-read fantasy to hard-to-understand.
web-idiot here
I would like that too please

>>19563969
>>19563961
>>19563957
>>19563947
>>19563946
There are people, a lot of them, who say that the books written by Steven Erikson — the Malazan Book of the Damned is too hard for most readers so I took the bait, and lo and behold, it was quite simple if you just read it with care.

>>19563976
I suspect this question was ironical, but I'll answer it anyways. While Brandon Sanderson it not be best writers, his books might be one of the easier stepping stones, like the Mistborn trilogy. Another easy one would be the Wheel of Time. Happy readings!

>>19563957
>And you think shit-tier webnovels are the proper way to start?
They are a way to start at least. Anything that gets people into reading is a good place to start in my book.
> Do enlighten all of us, give us the thorough road map from easy-to-read fantasy to hard-to-understand.
I'm not nearly well read enough to compile something like this extensively, but if you genuinely think something as The Hobbit or Earthsea is as easy to read as Bakker, you are genuinely too far up your own ass to see reality.

how do I level up my reading skills so I can read the King of /sffg/? And which stats should I focus on?

>>19564001
No, I agree. Reading is always good. One might still read proper books instead of webnovels.
I have never made the claim that Earthsea is as easy or as hard as Bakker.

But I nevertheless gave this guy >>19563976
some pointers. The Witcher series is also very nice read.

>>19564003
An excellent bait, Moogy!

>>19563988
>I suspect this question was ironical
It wasn't, I've had 2 moer recommendations after mother of learning and I'm wondering what you anons think of those. I won't mention anymore web novels

Art of the Adept by Micheal G manning
Arcance Ascension by Adrew Rowe

>>19563988
>the Malazan Book of the Damned is too hard for most readers
I've always interpreted the general opinion to be they were too big rather than too hard, so it's mostly a matter of time investment than actual reading difficulty. Though I could be wrong.

Is Bakker actually good or is this just a meme?

>>19564021

>>19564018
Judging from the amount of reviews on Goodreads those titles are self-published garbage. No one here actually reads web-novels.
From the following link you can find a lot of useful charts on which books to read.
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ

>>19564021
Yes, Bakker is actually good. Yes, there are memes also.

>>19564001
You know, I might actually do a chart some day.

>>19564014
>One might still read proper books instead of webnovels.
I don't agree but I respect your opinion. I don't see the issue wiith reading schlop every once in a while, as long as you're aware that this isn't really helping you in any way. But I do see how that could be detrimental to someone's development as a reader if they were to think this is all literature is and never were to push themselves into more developed forms of reading.
> I have never made the claim that Earthsea is as easy or as hard as Bakker.
Fair enough. I wanted to make the point that there are different books for different levels of readers, and ended up making a strawman argument against you.
> The Witcher series is also very nice read.
+1 to this

>>19564034
>Judging from the amount of reviews on Goodreads those titles are self-published garbage
What about Cradle by Will Wright then?

I really have no idea about books. I just know Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and then typed "novel with lots of magic" into google last week.

>>19564058
Moogy is having another meltdown, bros.

oh how I wish that bakkerposters would go and be niggers somewhere else
70 posts, 11 posters before this comment, barely a single post of value
you are the antithesis of value, and the current state of this thread rivals /vg/ threads in retardiation

>>19564048
Oh wait, there have been charts already.

>>19564070
Why does that autist insist on positing in threads over the bump limit?

>>19564033
Yeah I've posted more than one time in this thread? What are you implying? That I should only post once per thread?

>>19564074
> silmarillion
> entry Level
Shit, it's not rocket science but it sure as hell isn't in the same tier as Earthsea

>>19564068
Cradle has a very active and devoted fanbase that like that kind of naruto-anime shitpile slush. Just because something is popular doesnt mean its good, one has to remember its all self-published.

>>19564083
just something I found in the OP links

>>19564074
"pulpy goodness" that sounds like something a goodreads user would say.

>>19564070
Oh, he is here also: >>19564072

>>19564074
Woah woah woah where's the Goodkind? You can't have a list without the Goodkind!

>>19564100
>>19564074
Those Charts are horribly misleading. Putting Bakker and Jordan in the same tier is an insult.

>>19564109
Yeah Jordan is the king and Bakker is like the court jester.

>>19564109
>>19564092
No one claimed they are perfect. Make one yourself.

>>19564068
I've a couple of recommendations for novels/series which aren't literal kids books but aren't too advanced either:
Mistborn (Well developed magic system, pretty good for an introduction)
Gods of Blood and Powder (Napoleonic era Gunpowder Fantasy)
Dresden Files (Urban fantasy, quite long if that's something you're up to)
The Witcher (All around great Fantasy series)
Discworld (Absurdists Fantasy Comedy, just pick one of the series, I recommend Death or The Watch)

Thesea ren't necessarily my favorites, nor the thread's favorites, but things I read and can recommend and aren't too hard. Also wanted to give a somewhat wide range of options to see what suits your tastes

>>19564114
That's not how you bait. Jordan is universally regarded as a shitty amateur writer. But you already knew that.

>>19564119
Is discworld ya?

>>19564124
I thought the first 6 Wheel of Time books were a pretty fun little adventure.

>>19564100
>Brent Weeks
Has this man ever written anything worth reading?

>>19564132
You do you. I gave up by book number 4 when I realize that they were all the same.

>>19564118
This one is really not bad as a foundation, Amber is notably weaker than the rest, and I would replace one of the Gene Wolfe books with New Sun, then it is good to go.

>>19564127
In general no, though there is one specific discworld series that is targeted towards a younger audience (Tiffany Aching series I think).
For context, Discworld has 41 books in total, split into several sub-series and standalone novels. Here's a reference https://www.discworldemporium.com/content/6-discworld-reading-order

>>19564138
Nah they aren't all the same. Why don't you go read Bakker like the queer you are.

>>19564072
Does it trouble you?

>>19563692
Based.

>>19564143
oof

>>19564048
That would definitely be interesting.

>>19564173
... yes, Terry Pratchet was politically active. Though none of his books (At least the ones I've read) seem too heavy handed in their approach of these topics. The concept behind the book might seem extremelly focused on this one specific social issue (and if that's something that bothers you, just don't read this specific book) but in the story itself it doesn't feel heavy handed.

>>19564118
I tried to read Earthsea for the first time a few years ago as an adult and I couldn't get into it at all.
No depth, no characterization beyond the roughest sketch. Hurrying along on something like a summary of a story rather than a story itself. Maybe it's better if you're a child and have never read a proper book before, but if you aren't and have it falls completely flat. I stopped somewhere in the first book, because I just didn't care about anything, because the author failed to evoke emotions in me.

I understand why people like other books I don't like, like the big series by Erikson or Sanderson or Jordan, but I just don't see anything in this. It's not good in any way I can perceive.

Come to think of it, whats the appeal behind fiction anyway?
I can get behind small stories that convey a character arc or demonstrate some idea played out.
But what about those grand epic fantasy that stretch over decades of books? What their "point"?

>>19564195
They do the same thing shorter stories do, but in greater detail and with greater depth.

>>19563890
I'm seeing this pronoun shit in the signature of half my work emails now, weird it was a meme for ages but it took off like crazy this year

>>19563988
>Brandon Sanderson it not be best writers, his books might be one of the easier stepping stones
Sanderson is legitimately unreadable. I can read and enjoy all types of writing but his popularity is legitimately baffling to me.

>>19564199
I'm thining of Game of Thrones here for example.
It just feels so big in comparison to small stories that in the end his books copy real life too much. Everything is happening the story doesnt really have a focal point.

>>19564208
>weird it was a meme for ages but it took off like crazy this year
because zoomers are graduating and everyone else isnt hiding it anymore.

>>19564193
I read Earthsea fairly recently as an adult aswell, and even after reading tons of other "high" literature they held up well for me.
What you describe as being the summary of a story, rather than a story itself, gave the books a certain ephemerality, which combines well with the very high amount of original ideas, for a potent fairy tale charm in combination.

I don't really see much in the first book, beyond it being the origin of the now completely ubitiqous tropes of true-naming and magical balance in Fantasy, but I see why some people call Tombs of Atuan particularily literature.

>>19564175

Alright, let us make a chart. Here is a template I shall use:
>Books/Book series will be ranked by their literary merit and by how "difficult" they are to read
>You may recommend something to be placed in the chart by replying to this message
>For example: Dune (Series), A5, (A-tier, Very hard to read)
>Another example: Mistborn C1
I shall be using a tripcode for this endeavour
Webnovels, self-published, Isekai, Chinkshit etc not allowed.

T. >>19564048

>>19564238
Prince of Nothing, S4

>>19564238
S1 Wizards First Rule

>>19564263
>Goodkind
>S-tier
You have to bait harder than that.

>>19564238
Dune is S2 or S3, the second half is very fast paced and almost shlock, only the first half filters some people.
Mistborn C1 is ok.
Earthsea for S1
LotR for S3 if Dune gets S2
Book of the New Sun is S5
Malazan somewhere around A5

>>19564238
Neuromancer A2 or 3.

>>19564238
sandersoy d1
bakker s5

>>19564238
You should offer a template with 25 books too and then lets people rank those, makes it easire for you to compare.
obv we only rank stuff we've read, though no one will stick to that anyway

>>19564266
Maybe in the c tier but I won't go lower than that! He's become a popular author on /sffg/ recently for a reason. People are coming around to the genius that is Goodkind.

>>19564268
>Dune is S2 or S3
I think he meant Dune as a series. You can't deny the further entriues (Children and God Emperor especially) get pretty deep into philosphy

>>19564268
>>19564238
>>19564290
I think Dune (series) A4 is good. It's got some more complicated parts, but not enough for 5 i'd think

>>19564238
>>19564268
some more:
Narnia A1
Under Heaven A3
Ghormenghast A5
Way of Kings (by far Sandersneeds best) B2
Tales of a Dying Earth B3
Belgariad C1
Wizards First Rule (not awfull as a standalone) C2

>>19564271
I'd say A3 though I read a translated version, so that might have affected my experience

>>19564238
Foundation, S2 or A2
The Hobbit S1 or A1

>>19564276
I’ll do that when I get back home.

>>19564238
Dragonbone Chair B4-5
In my heart its S4, but I know not a lot of people here like it as much

>>19564334

bakker read this for sure

>>19564238
space trilogy (out of the silent planet) b 2

>>19564434
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbSxzqA8QrA

Why do onionboys hate good cover art? I'm so sick of this minimalist shit.

Some to fill out the middle:
Canticle for Leibowitz - S2
Windup Girl - A3
Eric of Melnibone - B3
Old Man's War - C2

>>19564238
Good takes

>>19564304
Somehow it filters a lot of English speakers too, especially towards the end. I think that mostly just happens to retards and women though.

>>19563641
>removed torrent
Why didn't you go all the way and remove everything?

>>19564526
Not my problem.

>Anime shitters still posting on the dead thread.

>>19564471
It's a trade paperback thing, like all the cheap food being on the bottom shelf in a generic package that signals it as cheap.

>>19564471
You'd have to trawl through /co/, but there's a screencap extract from some book about how all kinds of realistic art and illustration fell out of fashion and have been out so long there's nobody to teach or to learn it. It's a lost art, like going to the moon.

>>19564548
Its 10x the labor and they expect to be paid at least 5x as much as some shitty graphic designer/illustrator.

>>19564554
And it doesn't fit.

>>19564560
Bauhaus was a mistake.

>>19564471
I despise modern book covers in general. They're so interchangeable regardless of the genre. Look at this shit.

>>19563641

>>19564540
>trade paperback
Come to think of it, do the smaller size books even get printed anymore?
>>19564570
>bauhaus
That's the post I was waiting for.

>>19564554
yeah, but a good cover instantly grabs your attention. shit like >>19564582 all blends together.

>>19564268
>Malazan somewhere around A5
Malazan has a really dense first book. Just because it changes things on the reader doesn't make it particularly difficult to read.

Just finished God Emperor, are Heretics and Chapterhouse worth reading? I had intended to stop at God Emperor but I ended up really liking it. Either way I'm not planning on touching the fanfiction Herbert's son wrote.

>>19563641
Elder Race - Adrian Tchaikovsky (2021)
This novella is about emotions, meaning, and expectations. The narrative serves as a framework to build upon these concepts. The story itself is about an offworlder and two native inhabitants going on a quest to slay a "demon", though that seemed to be rather downplayed relative to introspection and interpersonal difficulties. It isn't so much necessarily that any of it contains deep insight as it is that it's a specific sort of pandering. I have no problem with being well pandered to. That isn't to say that it won't provide for musings, self-reflection, or greater understanding, because it certainly can.

Because these psychological concerns are so integral to everything this story is, how much you enjoy it may be largely based on well you relate to it in a positive manner. If you're someone who finds the exploration of feelings, the meaning of one life's, and the role one plays in relation to others to be unacceptable or otherwise uninteresting, then although you may benefit from reading this, you may not like what it has to say. I could go in-depth about the ways that that it handles these three ideas, but I think it'd be better if you read itself and drew your own conclusions.

I would be rather surprised by how much I enjoyed this because I haven't been interested in what else I've tried reading by the author, but a /sffg/ member wrote a review singing its praises. Based on that and the premise of the book, I decided I would read it. This is the first work I've finished from this author. I may have eventually this read on my own, but it's entirely possible that I wouldn't have, so I give my thanks to that member. Thank you.
Rating: 4.5/5

>>19564600
>are Heretics and Chapterhouse worth reading?
The overall consensus is "no". If you want more detail let me know.

>>19564600
>are Heretics and Chapterhouse worth reading?
They're very different and WAY out there, but people tend to forget that was the point in-universe as well.

>>19564605
I would love more detail.

>>19564586
The count zero cover looks kind of cool and retro. Like a 90s industrial album. The Star Ship Troopers cover looks lazy and stupid.

>>19564586
>>19564570
The fuck you have against Bauhaus? It's great.

>>19564619
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_text=herbert&search_tripcode=sffg

There are other reviews in the group. You can also look in the archive for whatever others have said.
I agree with the Dune reading image.

Example for chapterhouse:
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=chapterhouse

>>19564602
Did you try "Walking to Aldebaran" ? It's pretty Lovecraftian, about an astronaut going crazy.

>>19564648
Seems I looked at it anyway. Not really the same thing.

>>19564632
I wish books were more autistically kept track of. I'm pretty sure that Count Zero cover is from 1987, but the book lists everything Gibson has written up to and including The Peripheral (which has an awful cover). I guess reissuing the old cover was cheaper than slapping together some Star Ship Troopers tier trash.
Which partly answers my question about whether the small-size paperbacks are still printed. I still don't know if new books get released like that though, or if it's just a thing for reissues.

>>19564668
The margin on trades is higher than mass market format and sales are down across the board. Most books don't have the return to make it to mass market and most trades don't even require resetting the type from the hardback.

Will this get him off his ass?

>>19564238
I added some of my own suggestions, some I just threw somewhere.

>>19564729
I'm actually Ok with this.

>>19564729
Pretty good. I would move Goodkind further to the right, maybe put On Stranger Tides in its place.

>>19564729
Need some help filling out the lower right corner.

>>19564754
What do you suggest for On Stranger Tides?

>>19564761
Stranger Tides C2, Wizard's First Rule C3. Or just swap Wizard's First Rule and Black Company, I feel like Black Company is easier.

>>19564729
Harry Potter is not as bad as people make it out to be, I think. It's for children sure, but what she accomplished was not terrible by any means.

>>19564761
Dhalgren or something else dense and schizophrenic but not especially poignant. I'm more interested in where you'd put something like Little, Big.

>>19564729
Huh, I actually found Foundation to be an easier read than The Witcher, though both were really easy.
Wouldn't put them in the same tier as Hobibit and other literal Kid's books though, as I wouldn't put Way of the kings in teh same rating if nothing else due to sheer volume.

>>19564729
> The Book of the New Sun is harder than The Prince of Nothing
Huh. I read neither of these series, but it didn't seem that way from the descriptions people gave. You live and you learn I guess.

>>19564761
>Need some help filling out the lower right corner.
Any religious book of your choice.

>>19564787
It's accepted that BotNS takes rereadings to understand. Bakker is only there for appeasement so there's a chance this chart can actually be sorted out and mostly discussed in terms of interpretation of events rather than having to piece together what happened first.

>>19564729
harry potter is pretty good, needs lord of the rings (s2 or s3). game of thrones isn't hard to get into, 3 at most.

>>19564729
LOTR in S2 or S3
Also, I personally Dune as a stand in for the whole series could be S4, as the later entries get quite heavy on the philosophy

>>19564799
mlady

>>19564761
>filling out the lower right corner
Stephen Donaldson probably belongs in C or even D4.

>>19564515
>I think that mostly just happens to retards and women though.
Well, I'm not the latter, so I must be the former.

>>19564787
Prince of Nothing has more philosophical concepts incorporated into the narrative, but it is not filtering you with every action. The book of the New Sun completely filtered me. I had no idea what the fuck was going on and everything felt extremely exoteric for my own taste.

Good suggestions so far, I'll try to take most of the things into account. For many books fit same designations I'm going to make the image size a little bit bigger so I can fit around 4 books per slot. I'll write my own book a little forward and get back to the chart.

>>19564729
The Once and Future King for A3/A4? At least for me it was a hard read in places due to the vocabulary (Though it mightg just be me not being used to medieval terminology)

>>19564822
>>19564802
I see, thanks! Guess I'll read Prince of Nothing first then

>>19564820
I'm sure it was just lost in translation. The sequels get easier to read.

>>19564831
>>19564729
Speaking of Arthurian Legends, Le Morte d'Arthur could fit in A5

Why can't we have more threads like this?

>>19564843
>all filler no killer

>>19564822
I think the only true filter is the heavy use of symbolism and obfuscated literary references, I shouldn't invoke Lynch but the symbolic fever dream quality is a love/hate thing.

So this is what Manufacturing Consent looks like.

>>19564824
Based.

You cant shart the chart maker.

>>19564842
Oh yeah. I'm currently reading Idoru and I haven't been filtered yet. On the contrary in fact, it's been the most engaging book I've read in a good while.
I'll probably give Neuramencer a re-read eventually, and in english this time. The only reason I read the translated version was because a friend offered his book to me, but now I own a kindle so getting aka pirating the english version is much easier.

>>19564856
I was filtered by the fucking flower, I admit it. Don't care.

>>19564849
Welcome to medieval storytelling

>>19564874
The honor duel with an off-world plant?

>>19564890
Way too wacky for my taste.

>>19564858
>
Sorry that the chart bottoms out at D tier and there's nowhere for your favorite MTL webnovel to go.
>>19564870
Idoru is good. I don't know how I feel about All Tomorrow's Parties, it's a lot like Mona Lisa Overdrive with bringing back all the characters you like but the story was weak.

>>19564072
>I can't post because you're posting
Feel free to talk about what you like. The reason Bakker fags dominate the general is because all most other retards can talk about is Sanderson or Chinkshit. And of course there is very little worthwhile to say about either of those.

>>19564896
As is an honor duel with a stranger which is really nothing but a cover to steal his shit. Senseless barbarism at the end of time.

>>19564898
>All Tomorrow's Parties
Not sure if I'll get to that, as I didn't read the first book in this series, just skipped to ioru as a standalone as people said it still worked this way and because I have a physical copy of Idoru from a freak accident. Might go back and read the previous one and finish up with All Tomorrow's though if I like it enough though

>>19564195
>whats the appeal behind fiction anyway
recommend me some good non-fiction books

>>19564909
That's fair. Idoru is definitely the highlight of that trilogy.

>>19564913
This is not the thread for it.

>>19564913
My diary desu.

>>19564924
Au contraire, the best nonfiction is science fiction.

>>19564938
Indeed, speculative history and the occult also scratch the same itch.

>>19564913
Non-fiction related to SFF? There's a lot but nobody ever talks about it.

Here are some random examples:
Science-Fiction: The Gernsback Years
Science Fiction Writers of the Golden Age (Harold Bloom)
Robot Ghosts and Wired Dreams: Japanese Science Fiction from Origins to Anime
Science Fiction: The Illustrated Encyclopedia
The Encyclopedia of Fantasy
The Shifting Realities of Philip K. Dick: Selected Literary and Philosophical Writings
Queer Universes: Sexualities in Science Fiction
Science Fiction Quotations: From the Inner Mind to the Outer Limits

>>19564984
>>19564913
The Encyclopedia of Fantasy by Clute is a good resource (albeit very outdated by this point); also check out
>The Language of the Night, by LeGuin
>Wizardry and Wild Romance, by Moorcock
>On Fairie Stories, by Tolkien
>Rhetorics of Fantasy, by Mendlesohn
>The Cambridge Companion to Fantasy, by Mendlesohn, James, et al
those last two are more academic-oriented books

>>19565031
I haven't read any of them, they're just random books I picked out from my calibre library from downloading in bulk.

I found a Q&A section in the TSA forum where Bakker answers fan questions. This was half before the release of The Unholy Consult, half after it. There's references to a previous Q&A in a Three Seas forum that was apparently accessible as late as this summer, but is no longer.

https://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=21039

Some things I found:
> I was raised in a troubled household split between my father, who hated religion, and my mother, who was an evangelical Christian. We *argued* at my dinner table - argued a lot. I had a conversion moment which I still remember distinctly, weeping, FEELING Jesus enter my heart, before becoming a teenager. Then I had another conversion moment, equally emotional, when I was fourteen, when I finally understood why that feeling had to be a lie.

> A deal for the next books is in the works, but quite a bit depends on how well things go with TUC and the degree to which it bootstraps the backlist. Even if that happens, I'll keep on writing. The innovative folks over at Amazon have developed a great platform for authors to go it alone.
> Chorae concretize the collapse of intentionality into contradiction, thus undoing transcendental significations not bound into the intelligibility of the whole, that is, the sorcerous vandalism of Nonmen and Men.

> Morality is objective, so it doesn't matter what Men believe. Lies are also objective, insofar as they a powerful impact on the reality around them, and insofar as they are sinful. They don't become true so much as determine what is taken to be true. Lies are sins precisely because they have real consequences.

> In earlier versions of TTCB I actually explain the logistics of Ishual, the division of agricultural labour among the Dunyain, and so on. But once I realized just how big the info mountain the reader need to climb was, I began ripping out all nonessential details. By time Akka and Mimara reach Ishual...

> Isolation from external causes is the key to the original Dunyain mission. Allowing Moenghus back in would have been tantamount to allowing every he had experienced back in.

> Sorry to be cryptic, but I can say Meppa is not dead, but Kellhus is.

> Can you please clarify the meaning or symbolism of the "head on the pole behind you" imagery?
> The image itself comes from a curious optical illusion I continually experienced while writing in this particular coffee shop. Whenever I sat in this one chair, I saw the silhouette of a severed head on a pole over my shoulder - and it just so happened that I was writing the first draft of these Kellhus sections at the time. It creeped me out, and given my old Derridean obsession with the paradoxes of the time of telling versus the time told, I thought it a cool way to evoke the omnipresence of the infernal eternal, as well as to provide yet another clue regarding the unclean entity residing within.

Any idea where to put the following?
>Hyperion
>Revelation Space
>Quantum Thief
I have not read them, but sometimes they turn up in the threads.

>>19565078
so you found more evidence to the fact that bakker is a pseudo intellectual leftist hack?

>>19565078
This was actually interesting but I DO NOT understand philosophy graduate babble
>Chorae concretize the collapse of intentionality into contradiction, thus undoing transcendental significations not bound into the intelligibility of the whole
Uhhh, in english doc.

>>19565080
Hyperion B2. While you're at it swap the knight and canticle for leibovitz

>>19565080
Hyperion is hard to rank because it has the Canterbury Tales structure. Nothing about it is individually hard to read, but the unusual structure can throw people off.
It also has some pretty out there Sci Fi concepts, if you have seen Tenet, that type of reverse entropy time travel that leads to a lot of shenanigans is employed in it.
For unusual narrative structure and some pretty out there concepts from a pure logical perspective I would rate it 3-4 on difficulty and A-B tier in quality, as it is really fucking good but the structure can throw people off and some individual stories are garbage while others are S tier.

Also fuck you for Dragonbone in D, but at least its on there I guess

>>19565137
> last Spoiler
But anon, it's D for Dragon!

Where are you, Believer-Kings?

1 more week. I believe!

>>19565137
You yourself said it might be D, but I'll reconsider its place :)

>>19565155
I've lost it all

William Gibson's voice and speech patterns are really satisfying to listen to. He was a cutie back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DFSvbkQaD0
Also this interview is interesting. I'm pretty sure I found it because it was linked here before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMEvxrI1NiM&t=7s

>>19565155
1 more week...
>For all things there is a toll. We pay in breaths, and our purse is soon empty.

>>19565204
At this point, I don't care if its some kind of Amazon publish as long as the book comes out. Nevertheless a book publication from Gollanz would be better.

>>19565155
He better deliver.

>>19565211
I'm just hoping he lands/has landed a decent editor. The slips in the last couple books can take you out of things somewhat.

What makes a person be born as one of the Few in Eärwa?

>>19565293
It's unclear. But the Inchoroi know how to wire your brains in order to produce magic.

>>19565155
nihrimsûl erratic reporting in
what year is it again?

>>19565334
Based Erratic posted is back.

>Well, anon, About the No-God...
What would you ask him?

>>19565322
What's the sauce for that?

>>19565385
How does the No-God manage to control the Sranc, and why does he use them to attack mankind when he doesn't even know what he is?

>>19565398
I could be a dumbass and say RAFO But we were having discussions on how the Inchoroi obtained magic. One anon was kind enough to point out that they ran experiments on themselves. Remember Achamian's Master?. The only Skin Spy with a Soul and a Mage nonetheless.

This shit's probably in the wiki, I've checked it myself, but can't remember where.

>>19565293
You need to be capable of perceiving world in particular way, which is a talent you have to be born with. Dunyain accidentally developed it along with high intellect and perceptiveness that they were selecting for. Every pure Dunyain we see is either a Few or not clarified if one.

>>19565293
Pretty sure it's a trait such as autism in the real world or whatever. You are just born with a way to somehow discern the fabric of reality in a way normies can't.

>>19564074
Why is The Name of the Wind, a retarded series written by a Goodreads cuck, on the god tier list?

>>19564138
Ramza got filtered.

>>19564138
Boredom us the ultimate filter.

>>19564582
It's mostly the books written by niggers, fags, women, or a combo of those three that get this shitty cover treatment.

>>19564729
Interesting. Personally I would have put all the 4s into 3, but I think BOTNS and Gormenghast are definitely 5s, but then I'd have nothing to put in 4. I guess it's fine, some granularity is good, but I personally didn't have any harder a time getting into any of the 4s than I did with the likes of Dune or Neuromancer. Maybe you should put them in 4 as well? Maybe put LOTR and some Mieville in the 3s somewhere instead, mostly on account of the vocabulary/style.

And I honestly don't think Harry Potter is any worse than Mistborn. So either put HP in C or drop Mistborn to D. Witcher doesn't feel like an A to me, but it's definitely better than what's already in B so I guess it's fine too.

Everything else looks pretty accurate, aside from a few I haven't read. Really need to get around to trying some GGK.

Can't really help with the bottom right corner. That seems like an extremely rare type of book to come across, and if I had, I doubt I would have stuck with it long enough to bother formulating a lasting impression.

>>19564471
Probably the same reason as why the Harry Potter books got minimalist covers back in the day. Dumb insecure adults felt too embarrassed reading middle grade/YA fantasy in public. At a glance, something like that isn't clearly identifiable as such, and you'll get less dumb comments about what you're reading. Publishers wanted to expand their markets, so it was an easy fix.

>>19564729
Some changes here and there according to feedback. Added a couple of books and enlarged the picture so I can fit more book covers.

>>19565750
This list just keeps getting better, unironically.

>>19564761
>Need some help filling out the lower right corner.
I see the same problem as >>19565672, D tier are books which you would not recommend unless the person in question specifically asks for something included in them, ie Eragon is a good recommendation only if someone wants a story about raising a dragon.
Why anyone would read a D5 book is beyond me.

Anyway here are some authors still missing and book candidates for the lower tiers:

D3 - Bobby Dollar and the Dirty Streets of Heaven
A cop noir thriller about angels and demons feuding a secret war. Later books have some cool passages set in hell, and of the urban fantasy detective noir I read it was some of the better stuff. Worse than Dragonbone Chair from Williams tho

D2 - His Dark Materials
I actually liked those, but I like everything with heavy religious symbolism and I think they are pretty shit if you factor that out

C4: The Name of the Wind
Rothfuss prose is very fun to read, but can be quite purple. Also it deserves a low rank for the absolute cuckoldry that is going on with his charity stream right now (and is present in his books in general). Maybe even D4?

Relevant authors we are missing
Abercrombie - First Law is A to B tier, very easy to read. I say bump Leibowitz up to S2 since that is a really good spot for it, and put First law into A2 for spacing reasons

Pratchett - S to A tier, unsure about the difficulty. The books are very easy to read and enjoy, but you need a good grasp on the English language to appreciate a lot of the word play, so its hard for ESLs. A3?

Neil Gaiman - I have actually never read a book by him, only heard an audiobook, saw 2 TV shows and read Sandman. Strikes me as a B-C tier author. Can't comment on difficulty.

Also maybe put some chinkshit or webnovels into D5 for the lulz, as the immense length of these books alone makes them a massive time sink

>>19565750
I think I'd bump The Eye of the World (and The Wheel of Time as a whole) one right, as altough not hard to read, it is really large, and has 871267316 named characters, which if nothing else could confuse the reader into thinking the series is any more profound than it actually is
Also, I'm surprised you';d put lovecraft as a 5, as I found him to be surprisingly readable despite everything. Not the smoothest read, but not much harder than LOTR, for example, and easier than Dune.

>>19565750
>>19565794
Thats one hell of a ninja. Good changes all around.
Belgariad and Prydain Chronicles make good fodder for D1 aswell, very easy to read YA and not much literary value.

>>19565750
>Dhalgren in D4
Sounds about right from what I remember of it.

>>19565794
D5 would be those obscurant books which are more literary experiments than novels, hard sci fi beating it's own philosophical dick over a nothingburger of a theme, or the work of fried out hippies. You run into them occasionally and they serve as exemplars in context with everything else. I think LeGuinn had one.

>>19565750
Why is Wheel of Time so low? Its placement comes off to me as dunking on something for being popular, but not popular enough to loop back into being considered an eternal classic. It's a well-written series.

>>19565750
>Earthsea S
>Same tier as BotNS
Nah
>Hyperion B
>Same tier as Way of Kings
Nah

I'll leave out the ones I just personally disagree with Dune sucks, but those two are straight retarded. Put Earthsea in like A or B and move Hyperion to like A3 or 4
Bakker's books should also be moved to A at the highest

>>19565829
>Bakker's books should also be moved to A at the highest
Sir, this is the Bakker group jerk off thread

>>19565750
> thomas Covenant in C4
I was gonna ask itt if I should give it a shot, guess this is divine intervention

>>19565750
wonderful what one newfag talking about webnovels and a bakkerfag being the usual ass can bring out of /sffg/

>>19565750
Updated a little more, it is a long and iterative process.
Anyone have an opinion on these:
>the King of Elfland's Daughter
>The House of the Borderland
>Any book by Zelazny
>The Dark Tower
>The Sword of Shannara
>Legend by David Gemmell
>Tarnsman of Gor
>John Carter of Mars

>>19565750
I would put Lies of Locke Lamorre on A2 regarding context, though I havnt read alot so far. Even S2 if its were just book 1, but alas it isnt

>>19565876
I am always an ass.

>>19565896
+1 to this.
>>19565890
Eh, I think we can keep Earthsea in S1 and ignore that one retard. It's pretty much the gold standard for easily digestible fantasy. Unless you pump up The Hobbit to S1 Though I haven;t read it yet so i can't really give an opinion on it, please don't crucify me

>>19565794
It's been a long time since I read His Dark Materials. I seem to recall it was okay, but then again I was just a teenager when i read it, so that doesn't bode particularly well for it.

C is definitely where Name of the Wind belongs (never read the sequel). If it weren't for the prose, it'd be pretty boring. The prose really carries it , but turns too purple a little too often as well. But I definitely wouldn't put it all the way in 4. I'd put it in 2. It's definitely not as hard to get into as most of the stuff in 3.

Based on what's already in A and B, I'd personally put Abercrombie in A1. Personally on par with Witcher.

Pratchett is definitely somewhere in the S or A category, and I'd put him in 2, though I wouldn't mind 3 for your stated reason either.

Only read The Ocean at the End of the Lane and Sandman from Gaiman. Definitely a B writer. I think there's a bit more going on with his writing in terms of depth and allusions that you won't get everything there is to get out of his writing on the surface levfel, so I'd put him in 2. But of course I've only read two things from him.

>>19565750
dragonborne chair and black company should be B at least, they can't be just one tier above eragon. also:

B3 King of Elfland's Daughter
B1 The Space Merchants
A3/4 The Gods of Pegana
A3 Lord of Light
C2 This Inmortal
D1 Sixteen ways to defend a walled city
B2 The War of the Flowers
S4 The Children of Hurin

and i'll stop there but i can suggest more if you want

>>19565829
>>19565908
Guess we can agree that Earthsea is S1 meaning that is does not have much literary merit but its a very good book. Like a good Beaujolais Nouveau wine vs. a 1945 Petrus

>>19565896
Yeah, Lies of Locke Lamora feels very A2 to me as well.

>>19565890
>Any book by Zelazny
i gave 2 here >>19565913, also
S3 A Night in the Lonesome October

maybe we should make the grid 6 by 6

>>19565890
You can put Dunsany into S1 if you want, because he is mostly a short story author and his short stories are VERY accessible. Take a short story collection then.
I am not too hot on him and would rather see Earthsea in S1, but /lit/ likes Dunsany a lot and he is undeniably absurdly influential.

>>19565911
Whoops, meant A2 for Abercrombie

>>19565930
>maybe we should make the grid 6 by 6
Oh no no, last time I heard these words we ended up with an 11x11 compass.

>>19565827
>It's a well-written series.
I dunno if I agree with that.
>At it's core it's just tropes being pushed around for the sake of it, with some spins.
>The characters are flat as pancakes for the first half of the series
>the endings of the first two books make zero sense in view of future world building.
>Lots of literal filler content during the infamous slog.
>Terrible romances
>Hateable and stupid women everywhere.
>Perrin basically never interacts with the rest of the story and might as well be cut out and put in his separate fantasy series for those who like that kind of thing.

>>19565922
I'd argue it the other way. It's a simple series that has high literary merit in spite of being nothing too special as a read. I almost want to call it anti-fantasy as far as her contemporaries are concerned.

>>19565890
Another round of edits. I am always open for moving or adding. If there is some clash of opinions, some additional info on opinions is appreciated.

Was gonna call this A3, but it's both higher, harder (and older) than LotR...

>>19565997
I mean, the only thing bothering me from what I can see is Malazan being a 4.

>>19565975
Think I'm inclined to agree with this guy. Yeah, it's got some pretty simple stories, and can easily be enjoyed simply as such, but there's enough substance there to elevate it beyond just the surface level. That's actually a pretty hard feat to pull off. There's extremely few writer even beyond fantasy that can make a book work like that on multiple levels. It deserves its S.

Am I reading the false Sun wrong, or was Titirga actually blind?

This story is an incredibly gem.

>>19565997
Are the four great Chinese classics halal for this list?
I thought of long and hard to read books full of swordfights and magic, which are not really great, but you still have a reason for reading them (in the cultural significance), and Water Margin would fit B5, and Journey to the West C5.

>>19566044
He is blind.

>>19566048
Maybe. I've even considered having Three Body Problem. As long as its not degenerate anime/wuxia you know what I mean.

>>19566009
Feels like a 3 to me. And a B as well, if I'm being totally honest. I'd also put something like the Broken Earth in B3 as well, but only because second person narration seems to filter so many people for whatever reason. Realistically it should be a B2, but I've seen too many people apparently "struggle" with it to put it there.
Piranesi is another A2.

>>19566017
>>19565975
not the other anon but when did you read it? most people are biased towards it because they read it as a one of their first good fantasy books, i did and when i revisited it years later i thought i it had been a bit overrated in my mind

>>19566082
Read it two years ago. It's not a super fun, engaging or even particularly deep book, and definitely not even one of my favorites, but like I said, there's more depth to it than what's merely on the surface, and it is exceedingly hard to make a book that works both as a simple tale and something more.

>>19566017
It usually plays to its themes well and is the opposite of the indulgent and tolkien-derived fantasy.

>>19566082
It's been a while, sometime in my early 20s. I found it fresh compared to other fantasy, more like a Roger Dean prog rock album cover in practice than others had managed. I'd rank Farseer above it but I like depression porn.

>>19566072
>>19566009
So I am gonna do a little writeup on why there is a clash about how hard Malazan is to read.
Erikson didn't know what the fuck he was doing when he started, and his gimmick in general is to work with fucktons of hidden information, tease the nature of something early and reveal it three books later. Usually the hidden information is centuries in the past, and very very relevant for whatever is happening currently (an example being the true nature of this mysterious extinct race of whatever that is doing magical bullshit now).
Gardens of the Moon just throws you into this world full of thousands of years of buried, highly relevant history, and puts you on a battlefield where a bunch of sappeurs are trying to blow up the moon. It is not an understatement that Gardens of the Moon violently filters some people, bordering on a 5. Chain of Dogs is already a lot easier to read, as you got a baseline of how Eriksons magic and world ticks, and you get familiar with his style. After that it is definitly a 3, as his difficulty flatlines and you get used to it.
Since this chart is measuring how hard something is to get into, I would argue that the utter insanity that is Gardens of the Moon reserves a spot in 4 for Malazan, but if you are talking about how easy it is to finish Malazan it really is a 3, since only the length is a challenge.

>>19566048
Goodreads seems to think Water Margin is not fantasy.

>>19566127
Excellent take.

>>19566017
I guess I'll just juggle between the two slots until someone tires of it :)

Sweet Sejenus. The False sun has the most disgusting description of the Inchoroi.

>>19565922
Everyone says "well, I didn't really enjoy Earthsea personally, but you have to respect it!" Which is bullshit. Why pretend here? Nobody here really thinks it's the best of the best in terms of enjoyment, just some nebulous "quality" that people say it has. It's just not a very compelling story.

>>19566156
>>19566156
>>19566156

Not so fast, moogy shitter :3

>>19566156
>>19566156
>>19566156

>>19566142
That's what the community has been doing for decades. It's clear that it's more than an intersectional feminist dogwhistle and even the more hardline conservative fans within the genre support Le Guinn, but Earthsea as a series is incredibly uneven.

>>19566142
>Goodreads seems to think Water Margin is not fantasy.
Given that it is technically a saga it has a bunch of supernatural stuff. There is a magician who can summon fog and maybe a few thunderbolts, someone has magical shoes as a trinket which can make you run at like 80kmh depending on how many you put onto your boots, the main character meets the star gods at some point and realises that actually all of the stars of destiny are divine beings, and the bandits they are fighting are demons escaped from buddhist hell.
It has something slightly supernatural every 5 chapters and something significantly supernatural every 10 I'd say, and it is 100 chapters long.

>>19566127
Eh, I guess I've seen plenty of people not make it past Gardens. I dropped it too on my first try, but not because it was "too hard to get into" but because I just didn't find it that interesting or well written. The characters weren't developed well enough and with no clear plot hook, I just had no reason to really get invested on any level. So I guess it can be a 4. But I'm not budging on my B grade.

>>19566142
I mean, you could just plop it in between the two lol.

>>19566147
Because not everyone is a brainlet, and can separate quality and technical expertise from personal enjoyment. I don't really like classical music, but I'm not going to pretend there isn't immense talent in their writing and performance.

>>19564866
managed to write 975 words today, feels good

>>19566204
Well I mean what's the fucking grading curve then? A book with shit prose and a good plot will at least be enjoyed. A book with good prose and a shit plot with a meaningless point to it like Earthsea is just nothing, something to put in a museum and never read. Definitely not top notch, best of the best, go-to recommendation material. It's more for fans of poetry than genre fiction. You think you're above something for recognizing decent prose, but you have to understand that there's a level above that, where the prose is in service of an actual good book.

>>19566231
It was a good bildungsroman and the taoist and ecological themes served the plot and were thought provoking on their own. That it was brief and poetic along the lines of myths and epics instead of long winded word salad that genre trash defaults to places it beyond reproach with other S tier works. Offer a comparable alternative that does it better and don't assume something is meaningless just because you got filtered by a children's book.

>>19565997
hobb in like a/s 1/2

>>19566315
muh nigga

>>19566264
Comparable and better? Any given collection of Hans Christian Andersen's stories would do.

People do know this thread isn't even close to bump limit yet right?

>>19567530
Does it trouble you?

>>19566127
That's a lot of words to say GotM is plain shit.

>>19564719
whats up with hack writers like him and GRRM not being able to release things regularly any more but do shit like this

>>19567530
Yes, that's why it was done. It's just one of many ways in the attempt to destroy /sffg/.

I just watched dune. Why the fuck is kynes a nigress? Also his death was my favorite part of the book and they completely warped it. I'm not even angry bros I'm just sad. Do movies ever even live up? I didn't even have high expectations desu. Water and it's scarcity was barely if at all mentioned. They didn't show the secret garden st the former harnnoken base.that would have been a beautiful and vibrant scene. They did the desert well besides the sieches

>>19568595
Yes, movies in year 2021 made out of books are shit. Are you surprised? Also Dune is such a book, making a proper movie out of it would be quite hard. Some books are too good for movies. David Lynch movie was good

>>19564554
>>19564548
Here you go.

>>19565997
Greg Egan Quarantine - B5

>>19569007
didnt it take huge liberties with the source material

What a shit book this way.

>>19563641
Someone suggested picture related to me, what are some other books and resources that you would suggest for someone just starting out with worldbuilding, please?

>>19570157
Yes, it's quite different from the book but was cool to look at. I'm not him and I haven't seen the new one (or any other new movie in four years).

>>19565997
Surprisingly based chart. I would only argue for shifts by one squre Hyperion Cantos, Foundation and ASoIaF have no place being in different tiers - they all start off similarly great, both go down the shitter further along. Also, Hyperion is literally the most accessible of them all. Also the Witcher belongs in B-tier AT BEST., but those are all nitpicks.

Quality OC, keep up the good work.

>>19570094
Egan is not hard to read at all, and Quarantine is the most accessible of all his novels. I would agree with, say, Incandescence being B4, at most.

>>19566127
>sappeurs
The WHAT?

>>19570336
>>19570343
>>19570094
You're posting in the wrong thread.

I think I saw a short story once about an army of Native American dead spirits or gods who kill Americans as revenge.
I can't remember the title.

>>19570382
Because you made a new one before this one was even close to BL, you cocksucker.

>>19570396
Moogy hands wrote this post.

>>19570396
Cope harder moogy.

Third one is coming.

LMAO @ MOOGY

>>19570424
>>19570445
no youre moogy

>Moogy

What a retarded name.

And so, the thread moves from one terrible meta to another.

Well yes, I spam anti-anime, shit on moogy and Bakker post all day, how could you tell?

>>19570456
Does it trouble you, though?

Blessed thread.

>>19570467
Everything troubles me.

Why is moogy so moody?

>>19570478
Is that why you keep shitting the thread up?

>>19570480
asked the abuser

We won Bakkerchads.

>>19570489
Now we begin the homosex orgies!

>>19570480
Probably because they canceled Cowboy Bebop.