/lit/ - Literature

>>19562733

they arent, read a book on economics instead, brainlet

Proudhon.
They’re not two sides of the same coin. One is a coin the other is not a coin. Not poverty in the absence of the coin, but prosperity for all in the absence of the coin.

>>19562733
Distributist Perspectives

>>19562733
What coin is that, op. "Ideology? " read lib books.
"Materialism?" read mystics and religion.

>>19562739
QRD?
>>19562741
>>19562745
Seems like typical commie/capitalist shill cope. You're both eternal, insignificant and replaceable wagies to the system under communism or capitalism
>>19562761
Same coin of the elite and their control over the masses

That's one of Bap's big things that he likes to talk about, how both share the same goal of reducing man to a mere economic unit, docile and agreeable, and produce the same result, namely the flattening of everything terrible and magnificent in man. More or less stolen from Nietzsche, of course.

>>19562776

>You're both eternal, insignificant and replaceable wagies

Abd who isn't replaceable according to you?

>>19562831
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>>19562733

I'm 19 years old.

I am handsome, smart, athletic and virile.

I have a novel that is in it's final editing stage, and a creative writing professor at my college has read the first draft and thinks it's saleable.

I have a girlfriend who is confident, articulate, playful and spontaneous.

I have a small group of interesting friends from different social and academic backgrounds, and I also have many other acquaintances who see me as a reliable source of humour and good company.

Both my parents are alive and in good health.

I have no regrets.

I have already experienced three existential crises, the latter of which was described as having the depth and profundity of a man twice my age.

I am a passionate lover, a sharp thinker, and a trader of witty repartee.

I am not self-pitying, meek or needlessly humble.

I will live a good life at your expense.

>>19562836
The world will humble you, don't worry. It always feels like you've got everything figured out at 19. You'll look back in your 30s and wonder how you could have ever been so naive.

The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul, both systems are ruled by technicians, the means which they use might differ in practice (compare the technique of propaganda between European nations, USA and the Soviet Union), but they serve the to fulfill the same goal.
Man is to be stripped of all that he once saw as holy, his goals must always be according to the demands of the technicians, he cannot exist without the approval of the state apparatus, that is, all of his efforts in life may only serve one singular goal and that is technological progress for the sake of it.
Communism cannot allow a man that does not follow it's ideological command and thus does not differ in any way from other systems of governance, it must bend every man to it's will, no community can be allowed to co-exist alongside itself, no traditional society and peoples can be allowed to simply be.
All of this is true for capitalism or social/liberal democracy. There is no frontier to escape to, you cannot resign yourself from the society of technique with the consent of said society. All land is owned by the system, the state must know of you, your habits, your expenses, your whereabouts. It will send its lackeys to find you, wherever you may be. And when it does, it will punish you in full, for you did not buy this land, you did not tell us of the well you dug, the lumber you used to build your shack, the meat which you hunted or the crops that you grew, no, this all belongs to us first and to you second.
And when you cry out that you only wanted to be left alone, that your actions never hurt any man and you lived within meager means, the technicians call you mad, for you must be insane to refuse the material conditions and ease that they offer.

>>19562836
babe wake up new copypasta just dropped

>>19562831
Enlightened and highly spiritual individuals who actually look behind the veil of the power structure of our society and who is in control ...Ironically, thats whats communists have always claimed to do yet modern communists are all pathetic trannies and faggots fighting for the system lmfao

>>19562733

take the neo-reaction pill

>>19562739
>>19562909
These

They don't. Your instinct to cling to some sort of pseudo-eastern dualism is a bad one in this case. Sure you could construct some kind of argument for it, but it would be a meaningless exercise in sophistry.

>>19562733
>capitalism and communism are actually two sides of the same coin
Fascist/national socialist literature makes that argument, is called "Third Position".

>>19562948
They both subjugate man, that is enough to say "No, I will not submit".
If that means torture and death, so be it.

>>19562956
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>>19562733

SPeed walking??? more like SNEED walking (LOLE)

>>19562888
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>>19562888

>>19562745
You still want to maim, torture and murder anyone that does not submit. You are no better, never will be. Of course, you yourself will never raise your hand, it is the hounds and lackeys that must serve as a "vanguard".
And you'll give me millions of excuses as to why it is prefferable to genocide any tribe that does not bow down to you, whether their existence is of pacifism and survival.
A monstrosity of banal evil.

>>19562733
The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul

>>19562956
No. Man subjugates man.

>>19563026
Then there is nothing left to be said.
Stabbing a random passerby is the only thing you have to offer.

>>19562733
This is literally the central thesis of Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord.

It is written form a perspective of a Marxist theorist, but describes capitalist and communist societies of the 20th century as being essentially the same "spectacular" societies. Many things we criticize communist nations for are issues that are largely present in both worlds. They only have a simpler name and face to blame in communist nations.

>>19562909
Commies are too retarded to understand that marxism was just a reaction to the industrial revolution, the exploitation of human labour and the transfer of wealth from the workers to the bourgeoisie, yet it always fails since the only value that it places on the individual is purely an economic one based on the potential value that the individual can produce, same within capitalism. Marx viewed the entire world through the lens of economic class strugle, the oppressor and the oppressed. Commies always dream of the revolution that allows them to "seize the means of production", which eventually liberates them from the arduous and hard labour of the capitalist society, however in reality it always ends making them member of the new owner class, while the rest of the peasent class starves to death. This is exactly what happened in the soviet union and other communist countries, exploited peasents and farmers fought wars and died while those at the top of the communist hierarchy lived like kings.

>>19562733
Unironically Evola

>>19562733
But they're not. You're a retard if you think they are.

>>19562733
Voeglin does this, but its discussing it via the argument that Locke and Marx view the world very similarly when you remove the God from Locke. This is regarding the economic endgame of both. Both reduce man to a thing that wants to consume and be the Last Man without any struggle in life. It is just that command-economy communism failed at this.

I am also reading Dugin currently and he runs(like Adorno) that all 3 big ideologies of the WW2 are similar modernist shit with liberalism being the best and most efficient modernism.

>>19562902

>Enlightened and highly spiritual individuals who actually look behind the veil of the power structure of our society and who is in control

I see and what would happen if we tried to replace these irreplaceable people?

>>19563074
You get delusional trannies who think they are fighting the system, who depend on big pharma for their estrogen pills, who complain about capitalism and somehow, think that they can lead a revolution kek while in reality they are just pawns for the wealthy capitalist elite.

>>19563041
>If you don't buy my reductive contrarianism then all that's left is muggings in a dark alley!
Yeah I remember being 20.

>>19563093

And we don't have those now? Are you sure you understand what irreplaceable means in the context of a workforce?

>>19563109
Why should I comply?
>b-because i will hurt you!!!
Oh, ok. No thanks, do your worst.
>nooooo you fucking contrarian teen that is not how this works

>>19563056
>This is exactly what happened in the soviet union and other communist countries, exploited peasents and farmers fought wars and died while those at the top of the communist hierarchy lived like kings.
Mao's wife was beheaded by a warlord and he was nearly killed on multiple occasions. One time a guy next to him exploded and sprayed him with his blood. He also pretty much invented modern guerrilla warfare theory that's still studied in war colleges all over the world. Fidel Castro meanwhile was a guerrilla field leader who led the repulsion of the Bay of Pigs invasion from a tank.

https://youtu.be/ji9xq8Qn4wU?t=424

>>19562909
>take the neo-reaction pill
It doesn't mean anything. Okay, now you're a neo-reactionary. What has changed? Nothing.

I understand the attraction though, the yearning for a simpler time, insofar that it was more regimented. But people are under this spell that you can "be" a neo-reactionary or a communist or a Marxist or a Nazi or whatever. You're not any of those things. You're just a bag of goo.

There's not going to be a civil war, you will die slowly of cancer. Your kids will be trans, like everybody's kids. Deal with it and do something useful like volunteer to feed homeless people.

>>19562733
They aren't at all economically speaking, but if are more interested in existing states than in the theoretical ideological differences, "The dictator's handbook" might be interesting. It's similar to Machiavelli's The Prince, but more modern and relevant to our society

>>19562733
http://mileswmathis.com/marx.pdf

>>19563726

> feed homeless people
>useful

>>19563700
Yeah and? At the end all of them ended living like wealthy kings while the rest of the population starved to death

>>19562733
More like: books that explain how capitalism and communism are both meaningless term that hold no weight in reality.

>>19562986
>You still want to maim, torture and murder anyone that does not submit
No. That’s the point. You don’t submit to anyone anymore. Why do you defend the jailers, the royalists, the slaver to own you?
You know nothing about what I stand for. Try asking next time.

>>19562745
>Not poverty in the absence of the coin, but prosperity for all in the absence of the coin.
Are you unironically shilling for communism? Pathetic

>>19564961
We are wealth.

>>19562733
An individual in a capitalist society and his clone in a communist will have wildly different neurologies and mental frameworks, they are not two sides of the coins.

>>19564892
I have read your posts, I have seen what you advocate for.
I have had this precise question to ask of you and everytime, you either dodge it or outright state:
>lmao they can die then
Fuck off, you wouldn't allow anything outside of your twisted fever dream of an utopia.

bump

>>19565433
>they can die then
Who? The fascist trying to shore up a slaver state? Yes, they’ll be the enemy to kill for your freedom. You voted Biden, did you?

>>19565205
both condition the belief that the value of a person is in their inherent ability to provide labor. Since the whole world isnt communist, if you lived in a communist nation that labor is extended to the wider capitalist system in terms of exports from that nation regardless of internal political economy. Its fair to say both communism and capitalism place the value of a person on: production for the internal economy to maintain functionality.
And production for export into the global capital machine.

They are both the same in how they view the individual on the basest of levels. The only difference is the incentive to provide that labor.

>>19562733

Both are manifestations of the West's fixation on materialism.

Materialism (dialectical) begets materialism (spiritual), and it is through the material that the western man measures all things.

>>19562733
Mein Kampf?

>>19565520
I'd argue the incentives in a communist society are fear and brutality
In a capitalist society its based on greed and envy and pleasure based on my own limited experience with both systems. Both are awful denigrations of the human spirit into a commodity.

>>19565505
I am not American, I do not partake in democracy or any other system of governance.
Pot calling the kettle black.
No, what you cannot allow is anything you categorize as tradition. Spiritual people must be annihilated, their children kidnapped, their houses and cattle burned to the ground.
The one's refusing your rotten cup be made examples of.
You wish to have your will over man, I wish to have none of it.
We are at an impase, I wish to simply retreat, you want to dominate.
I will not put up a fight and I pray your kind, and the ones before and after, will have your eternal reward.

>>19565610
Schizobabble, anon. This is a severe reaction to imaginary ideas you project over me. I don’t stand for any of that. I’m more of a traditionalist than people around know. You are perhaps stuck in a modernist tradition. I know nothing about your situation though so whatever.

>>19562836
Freak brain

>>19562733
Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley

>>19562877
It's old as fuck you newfag

bump

>>19562745
I don't take advice from filthy fucking tripfags.

Legutko's The Demon In Democracy might be of interest

>>19567228
That’s a shame, not-OP. I gave fine advice there.

bump

>>19563061
Why?

>>19563726
>It doesn't mean anything. Okay, now you're a neo-reactionary. What has changed? Nothing.
Then why're you bothering to try and demoralize him? If all of this is inevitable your rhetoric would be unnecessary. The future doesn't belong to the fraction of 10% of the world (Western Liberals) who have only been around for 60-ish years out of 10,000 years of human civilization. Things are already re-correcting.

Metal Gear Solid 3
>That's not a book
Fuck off

>heh [non-materialist thing] is just something the capitalists use to distract you!
>goes back to watching tv/posting on social media

>>19562745
>>19565162
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N

>>19562733
Evola.
>>19568056
Because he identifies both capitalism and socialism as ideologies centred on production and consumption, material creation and the prioritisation of matter of spirit. In both systems, the human being is really the "human animal" with its capacity for labour and consumption. Very different from the traditional worldview.

>>19568557

>>19562776
>Seems like typical commie/capitalist shill cope. You're both eternal, insignificant and replaceable wagies to the system under communism or capitalism
chill

>>19562836
Atleast your lying is good, calling bs on all the other stuff though. Enjoy the delusions whilst they last

>>19562733
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkrd76_o00E&list=PLJ4cgfQlICJm5DGBWDEmEcHqWyB9P2r6P