/lit/ - Literature

is there an english version? sounds based and redpilled

Too many hard truths, i cant deal with them.

>>19556824
>Now that even the liberal elites recognize the scope of the incel problem
Sure let's pretend it wasn't their master plan to create said incels to begin with. Those coping mechanism you mention are just another form of them exerting control over those bug-men lowlifes who would otherwise riot and cause problems for the establishment, which is mostly made up of people who themselves would be incels were it not for their money and scheming genius.

On another note, it's normal and desired for any species that only the highest value males can reproduce with the highest value females. Most others will die out, as they would be otherwise polluting the gene pool and making it harder for the species to survive as a whole. Modern humanity has removed natural selection from the picture and we now have shitty genes that propagate + a shitty environment that tries to weed out as many males and for the first time, also females, by making it so that no girl is a viable life partner and that men can only look at modern women in disgust. This will however heavily backfire against these people, for our civilization is bound to collapse and the natural order of things will be brought back.

And I wonder what will losers like you who complain all day instead of trying self improvement do in a collapsed society? Complain that there is no food, no shelter? You'll die if you keep that attitude very quickly when things are back to normal. But also by complaining today you choose death, it just comes your way slower so that you end up not sensing the danger and then when it has slowly crept it's way behind you and taken your miserable life, you'll look back in your final moments and think "it would've been so easy to avoid this", but you never tried.

>>19556824
Women explaining why they're shallow whores who only go for Chad:
>uhh... it's evolution okay incels what we do is ordained by nature itself and very cool akshually!
Woman explaining why men are better, stronger, faster, more intelligent, more empathic, more artistic, more creative, make better leaders, businessmen, scientists, and should generally just own women like property
>ITS DA PATRIARCHY'S EVIL LIES

And yes I googled the author and its a middle-aged g*rm woman with karen hair who probably fucks black migrants and copes in the meantime

>>19556824
So we either return to traditional gender roles or live in a society where 70% of women mate with 35% of men... interesting

>>19556839
chill out, adolf

If the "natural system" leaves men like Newton childless, maybe the natural system sucks and shouldn't be appealed to blindly.

>>19556839
This.
>written by a woman
>looks at the data
>still thinks marriage and monogamy are le oppressive
This is why women cannot be based and redpilled

>>19556834
>by making it so that no girl is a viable life partner and that men can only look at modern women in disgust
You incel, bro? I love women, both for casual fucking and serious dating,

>>19556854
I am not. Just not a degenerate lowlife like yourself, who thinks premarital relationships are any good.

>>19556848
This.
If Newton had been born a muslim or a jew, he wouldve got 30 grandkids at least.
Can you even imagine?

>>19556848
>it can't be me it's the whole of nature that's wrong


LOL

>>19556841
>70% of women mate with 35% of men
First world dating is even worse, closer to 80/20 - until women get too old for Chad cock and settle for some beta provider.

>>19556859
So... incel

>>19556865
90/10 soon

My wife is currently pregnant. Get fucked evolution, I won.

>>19556824
It is unironically being able to have a job. That is how "low" the bar is here. Dunno, what is happening with kraut women, but that is definitely the thing here.

>>19556874
They are even somewhat ok if you are an alcoholic or whatever. Because some women are alcoholics themselves.

>>19556872
>implying the child is yours

>>19556872
Anon, you haven't had any plumbers visit the house lately, right? None with particularly 'urban' sounding names either?

>>19556879
>projecting your cuck fantasies onto others

>>19556872
This guy trusted the mailman

>>19556883
Kek

>>19556834
Meds

>>19556824
In India and China, the ratio of male to female is so bad that the next generation is going to miss 100+ millions of women - now imagine this, 100 millions of extra males. Enough to populate an entire country with no future - let's call it Kekistan. What do we do about Kekistan ?

>>19556874
And some don't even have that. That is why those quotes on the low. There are people who don't even have a job and manage to find someone, but they aren't whiny bitches.

>>19556867
im a degenrate as well but there is literally nothing wrong with being celibate, involuntarily or voluntarily

90% sterilization rates from birth. We should be reducing population and breeding based on intellect and discipline. Like Anathem or The Darkness That Comes Before.

Only then might we avoid blowing ourselves up and making it off this rock.

>>19556921
>celibate voluntarily
maybe 1% of celibate males
>celibate involuntarily
utter life fail

>>19556925
Women will never allow this, if anything they'll only force more freedoms to bang coke dealers and DJs exclusively.

>>19556925
This.
Imagine leaving the fate of the species in the hands of women. We need eugenics NOW!

>>19556824
Why shouldn't men just rape women if this is the case?

>>19556824
The views of radical feminists and incels mostly align, and to some degree they are probably correct. However, they have very different solutions to the problems they perceive.

>>19556865
Have you ever considered the possibility that men attractive to women for sex aren't actually that great for relationships? They're a lot like the male version of slampigs. Often very charismatic and physically attractive, but they're often pretty devoid of worth past that. They're almost exclusively extroverts, which means they've spent very little time in their own heads and learning about themselves. Keep in mind, I'm talking about extroverts in general here as well, but specifically that very stereotypical, type-A """""chad""""" personality which seems to be tantamount to god here on 4chan the last few years.

Sometimes these women aren't actually settling. They get sick of charismatic yet specious fuck boys. Some women have to learn this, sure, because sometimes men can be really shitty and disingenuous in what they do to have sex. A lot of women get burned hard—by falling for the same """"chad"""" bullshit you guys are simultaneously exalting and denigrating—and have to learn how to trust people again.

Really, you guys should be up in arms against the """""chad""""" religion instead of seething with jealousy that it's not you. It makes things shitty for everyone. Hypergamous men teach often-naive women that they have to be wary. This wariness makes it harder for decent people to connect.

>>19556949
This is some military grade copium, lmao

>>19556949
>Everything is men's fault, nothing is ever women's fault
Fuck off

>>19556824
I have a waifu, I don't need a woman.

>>19556954
Count how many times I explicitly said "sometimes," and ask yourself if you think that each and every single time I was trying to make it an all-or-nothing polemic.
>>19556952
If you had a better argument, you'd have made one.

>>19556935
because the supposed order of nature should only be reified in society where it coheres with the class interests of the bourgeois. <-- this is a handy explanation wherever you see people justify the artificial and oppressive condition of our society by conflating it with the "natural order"

>>19556949
Transgressive behavior is both looked up with disdain but also mixed with admiration.
Like it or not we actually like seeing people not giving a fuck about the rules and bullshit we play along with, skirting the line between what’s socially acceptable and the inappropriate.
We might look at chad with a weird mix of respect and disdain but absolutely no one respects simps, the “socially approved” attitude towards women.

>>19556964
>NAWALT

>>19556964
>eventually, she'll see the value of timid reliable partner
Pure fantasy, if a woman settle for physically inferior introvert she'll have nothing but contempt for him. Many such cases!

>>19556824
>having a hard time getting laid is more blackpilled than mortality itself.
Lmao. Imagine wanting to have sex.

>>19556969
Do you really expect me to argue for the idea that there is significant variation in human behavior?
>>19556968
You might look up to that. I don't. Have the courage to break with convention, my man. If you look up to chad, you can say that you do instead of appealing to the imaginary "we" consensus. If you don't, you can say that too.
>>19556973
>t. literal psychopath intentionally spreading unhealthy ideas for others to internalize

>>19556824
>post-wall childless roastie trying to teach men evo-psych nonsense
opinion discarded

>>19556984
>>t. literal psychopath intentionally spreading unhealthy ideas for others to internalize
It's the truth. Women view the male provider as a tool to be exploited. As a "man" she resents him because he is inferior to her previous partners. If she can find a way out of the marriage that will allow her to also harvest his finances she will.

>>19556824
All of this could be averted if you resorted to fucking femboys and twinks instead of just drooling over women, you know.

>>19556992
And how does free will factor into all that?

>>19556997
I don't believe that people have free will.

>>19556998
Except you, right?

>>19557000
I do not have free will either.

>>19556996
Femboys and twinks have higher standards than women, seriously, there's nothing more entitled or stuck up than an femboy

t bishit

should i just give up life at this point then?

>>19557013
Took you long enough

>>19557016
i see...sorry mom.

>>19557004
Well, I guess you've created for yourself a nice little unfalsifiable bubble of solipsism in which all people are driven by the things you say they are, and in which your (I would argue false) sense of the causality behind women's actions allows you to act how you feel like acting, as if you're Laplace's demon operating with complete knowledge. And, with the weight of all this fancy determinism, you use your erudition to... tell people on the internet that women will never like them because they're introverts. I wonder what causal factors there were that caused you to arrive at this conclusion. I suppose you should be able to list each and every one of them then, right?

>>19556824
Rapes you. I win kek.

>>19557021
The causal factor of being a simp caused you type all of this to defend holes.

>>19556824
>Men who can no longer find women in this new world order should be cared for in other ways - Stoverock thinks about sex assistants and the role of prostitution, she describes pornography as a possible “socially acceptable support” for men.
I don't think this will actually work, eventually Men will not be happy with just sex and will start wanting kids like they're programmed to.

>>19557021
>tell people on the internet that women will never like them because they're introverts
Shall we feed them false hope and simping encouragement instead? From long-term perspective, your bullshit is far more harmful to Anons.

>>19557028
I'm an autist, not a simp. Get it right, my man. This "us vs. them" mentality is what I find so tiresome about normies.
>you disagree with my idea that all women are just holes operating under hard deterministic forces because you're a simp!
Solipsism is the last line of defense for the intellectually sloth.

For the record, none of this is for your benefit. I'm writing this for anyone with a brain who's actually struggling with the dumb bullshit you're spouting and can't seem to defend under even cursory examination.

>>19557045
You've disproved nothing as everything I've said about women is demonstrable from a simple observation of reality.

>>19557042
No, we should work to get rid of this retarded, false incel/simp/chad trichotomy. Those of us who have been around for a while have watched this whole dynamic arise from the ground up. All of this dumb shit was initially a joke. Then come generations upon generations of dimwitted newfags and suddenly here we are with people unironically self-identifying with these literal memes.

>>19557047
You probably perceive a lower-order version of reality, unironically. You'll never perceive the world in the sufficient richness and nuance to be able to have an intellectually honest discussion on anything.

>>19557055
Every joke contains a kernel of truth.
Otherwise they wouldn’t be funny.

>>19557067
Jesus anon this is brutal

>>19557067
Women do not love inferior men, but resent them. They will tolerate you for a period of time because you are useful, nothing more. They'll fake their orgasms while suppressing the urge to vomit. This is your future.

>>19557067
>>19557075
The only thing worth examining is how women actually behave. I don't care what theoretical construct you can make up as your coping mechanism. Women behave as hypergamist sociopaths.

>>19557055
>Those of us who have been around
I'm 32, but unlike you I'm not wilfully ignorant to social developments in the past decade. Even 16 years ago when I started dating and fucking, one could clearly spot the mixed mating strategy of teenage girls - exploiting betas and fucking alphas on the side. Nowadays, with social media, dating apps and culture of slut celebration, it's not even some secret for the sexually initiated but an undeniable fact to anyone except the most delusional simps, such as (You)rself.

>>19557076
>They will tolerate you for a period of time because you are useful, nothing more. They'll fake their orgasms while suppressing the urge to vomit
This

>>19557075
You're right. I apologize, I got carried away.
>>19557081
It's obvious that you don't care, because you refuse to interact with any point of discussion I make. I think I was trying to talk to you on a level I thought you'd understand. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, by the way. If my own observations of reality are sufficient to define your subjective experience conclusively, well... does this >>19557067 seem accurate to you? That's my own "simple observation of reality." Is it a true assessment? Or am I perhaps missing a bunch of subtle nuance to the point where such a statement, even applied to JUST YOU (much less half the humans on Earth) is inherently useless? Throw me a fuckin bone here, man.

>>19557098
Your observations are incorrect because you attribute women no longer pursuing alpha males as them "getting tired" of alpha males, when the reality is that the women are no longer desirable to alpha males as the women have aged to the point that their looks are diminishing and alpha males can replace them with superior younger females, which is why women just so happen to "get tired" of this in their 30s or later. Women do not "get tired" of this at the height of their sexual appeal.

>>19557082
I disagree with many of the ways modern society has progressed, for the record. We share that. But while you have arrived at the conclusion that "all women work this way," I've left a little more leeway. I'm open, at the very least, to being surprised. I consider myself to be a pretty rare person. I don't think that makes me any better or worse, but I exist on a lot of different margins of the human experience. I feel alienated from the often seemingly rote way in which most people—men AND women—go about their lives. The silver lining is that I exist as a base case for some kind of impromptu inductive proof that human beings don't have to be that way. I've shaped myself into someone I can be proud of and okay with, "even if" I am quiet and introverted. These things might not be socially valued, but if I value them myself and live a life according to my own values, I have faith that shit will work out. It has so far.

>>19556824
>This phenomenon has only been suppressed to this day by the male civilization that controlled and disenfranchised women

Uh, sounds like controlling and disenfranchising women is essential to male happiness. It should be strongly encouraged

Why are women so bad at math? For every single male there will be a single female. Even if some sort of quasi-harem around high status man is possible when they are young, he will still commit to only one at the end, leaving the rest of them without prospects. So there will eventually be just as many lonely older women as men

>>19557115
But why did the Alphas allow this to happen, wouldn't it be beneficial to them to eliminate the unwanted men?

>>19557113
Fair enough, I didn't mean to shit on your coping beliefs (we all need some) but you shouldn't present them as universal truth. You're right, not ALL women are like that, but continuously increasing majority certainly are. As far as my experience goes, I can certainly confirm every nasty stereotype about women you see posted on 4chan.

>>19557123
it's usually rich tech bros or hedge fund guys that push this shit because they only had daughters and want them to be faux sons

>>19556824
What happens next is female tyranny. We'll see female governments, female presidents, female CEOs, female leaders who ought not to be criticized. This is what happens in post-male civilization. This is already happening but most men are too copeful to recognize this. Women are taking over universities, culture, education, politics and workforce. Mainstream politics is what women want to push.

>>19557109
>Alpha males live in timeless vacuums while women age
Obviously every age group renews itself and the cycle keeps going.

Also women do not struggle to date. It's some redpill pick-up autism cope that all women hit the wall at age 18 and then never get any male attention ever again while every man is a king and a sexual emperor who self improves all day

>>19557121
>he will still commit to only one at the end
Lmao. Then why is that that so many men go after younger women after dumping their current spouse?

Women date up in status, Men date down in status. If you want to get a higher status female (or qualify for one at all) you need to raise your status.
Yes, women have live on easy mode, but who the fuck wants to play the game on easy mode? Not being a little bitch is the great filter against which men are being excluded.

>>19557123
With "alphas", I assume you mean men who are favored by women for reproduction. Men who are not favored for reproduction are physical beings, capable of violence, that can organize and can be extremely smart. Including them in a society helps improving society itself and helps with fighting against other societies

>>19557138
Weird cope but okay

>>19557109
It's an alternative theory. Only one of us is trying to holistically reduce the behavior of women into a single, one-size-fits all behavioral "algorithm." This is what I'm getting at, and it's the point you're missing by cherry-picking.
>women do this
>women do that
>women will
>women won't
I can't even get you to examine this, can I? You just believe so wholeheartedly in your ability to look observe women and wring out from them these cosmic, unassailable "truths." They are observational facts of reality beyond reproach. I don't get it.

>>19557121
Not really what happens in reality. Women often have multiple men in their catalog and play around it. Like the data says you have way more female ancestors than male ones. Maybe you are bad at math

>>19557144
Because your interpretation does not accord with anything I have ever observed. I have never seen a single thing in reality that indicates I should give women the benefit of the doubt in any of these matters.

>>19557145
>you have way more female ancestors than male ones
wait so back in the day one of my great grandparents had three moms? how does that work?

>>19557150
>admitting you are retarded
More women reproduce. Only around 35% of men have ever produced while 70% of women have reproduced. This means those men had children with multiple women. Polygamy.

Imagine being an unironic retard and talking about women being bad at math

>>19557150
The incel interpreta the data as validating his preconceived beliefs.
In reality the reason you have fewer male ancestors is because men have always had a higher mortality chance than women.
Male infants have slightly higher morality chance than female infants, men get culled by ear, disease and workplace accidents than women.
The reason you have fewer male ancestors than female ancestors is because those men died before they could reproduce, not because they were incels.

>>19557148
>Because your interpretation does not accord with anything I have ever observed
We're not talking just about observation though, are we? We're talking about events that happen, sure, but that's not it. You're leaving out the part where you're gathering and collating patterns and information and from that you are making conclusions. Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be actively looking for "data" that fits your conclusions and discarding the rest? Is it possible to you that at some point, there exists the possibility that you have made some kind of irrational interpretation or assumption?

>>19557150
Generation 1 of society X: man with 2 wives

Generation 2 of society X are people descending from one man and two women

I assume this is what it means

>>19557164
so you ARE saying one of my grandparents had multiple moms? far out dude

>>19557169
If you want to disprove my observations you'll need to provide evidence that disproves them.

>>19557166
>The reason you have fewer male ancestors than female ancestors is because those men died before they could reproduce, not because they were incels.
And even if this isn't like FACTUALLY AND CATEGORICALLY TRUE to the standard of your facebook and r*ddit infographics, it is at least plausible. It's possible and shouldn't be discounted. It may very well be a mix of "historical incels" (I fucking hate you faggots for making me type this out) and other factors explaining the imbalance in ancestry.

There's so much all-or-nothing thinking from the incel crowd and I really wish I knew the way to break through.

>>19557164
He is not retarded, at least not because of this, it can be misunderstood, single human beings have the same number of male/female ancestors unless incest happened, no?

>>19557166
>In reality the reason you have fewer male ancestors is because men have always had a higher mortality chance than women.
More males are born because men statistically die more. There is a surplus of men in most countries because men aren't dying young.

Not all animal kingdoms have alpha males that breed all the females, there are quite a few in which a pair lives in monogamous relationship till the end of their lives.

>>19557178
That's the problem with mental illness, my man. You get so caught up in how rational and accurate your "observations" SEEM to be that you can't even examine them. I can't "disprove your observations," anon. At least not in the way you're asking me to, because those things that happened to cause you to believe all these things did actually "happen" in a sense. You observed a set of behaviors, you had some emotional response, you applied intuition and/or analysis to come to conclusions and interpretations. These are all separate events, and you're lumping them all together into one single thing under the rubric of "observations." As long as you categorically refuse to examine yourself and ask yourself the hard questions, nobody's ever going to be able to help you sort it all out.

>>19557176

>>19557194
You have not said A SINGLE THING to prove that your interpretation is correct. You've just said, "Well maybe it's this way. Doesn't the possibility that it might be this way make you doubt everything you've ever observed?" No, I'm afraid it doesn't. Apparently that makes me mentally ill. Feel free to go fuck yourself. I'm not going to respond to you again.

>>19557184
there is currently a surplus of men in truly patriarchal countries because female babies get a "post-birth abortion"

>>19557193
Women are the selectors in humans. Men have no standards apart from trying to dodge deformed or morbidly obese women. Women have extremely high standards compared to men.
There's some chimp species have the opposite dynamics. What happens is physically strong males dominate other males and monopolize reproduction. This isn't what happens with humans though: Chad is chosen and women gravitate towards Chad, Chad doesn't beat up 10 other men every time he wants some hole.

>>19557143
Calling facts cope is the ultimate cope.

>>19557217
You are claiming current human reproduction dynamics are human reproduction dynamics. I could have made an argument like this 200 years ago claiming parents are the selectors of pairing in human reproduction

>>19556824
The lesson is very simple, boy. Don't be a fucking beta (or omega, more like). You don't need to be a pretty-faced faggot, or tall, or any of that shit to get women.
All that the modern western culture is telling you about what "a man should be" is a complete fabrication. Yes, if you're really fucking ugly and deformed, that will limit your options. But if you're only as ugly as an average incel schoolshooter, then the problem is definitely NOT your looks.
It's that you're a weak-willed, effeminate passive faggot who does the same thing every day and things something will change (I guarantee it won't). Who has delusions about how the world and women in particular "owe" him something. Thing is, boy, that to have something in your life and to move beyond the social station assigned to you at birth, you're going to have to punch the fucking world in the face and rip that something from its broken fingers - or die trying. Do you know how real men get ahead? They work their fucking ass of - and by work, I mean work smart, not take an extra shift at the fucking wallmart. And eventually, these men take risks. You have to gamble it all. Whether it's a business enterprise, or whatever else - you have to put everything you have in that jump - including your life sometimes - and be prepared to plummet into the abyss if you couldn't soar. That is how you achieve anything of note, that is how you move past your station and change the world. Women come with the territory, they simply flock to confident and proactive men - including really fucking ugly ones. How do you get women? You don't EVER chase them. You simply strive to be the best in your field, and to constantly advance your mind and body in every possible aspect. And then just go to a bar or on Tinder or whatever. I don't guarantee any quality in there mind you - but you will be drowning in 10/10 pussy that an incel would be willing to get crucified for. It gets old, too, but that's a different topic. Basically, don't chase after women - chase after becoming a superior man.

>>19557212
Your argument is:
>all women act this way
My argument is:
>some might, many don't
And probably more than you'd think. I don't care if you respond or not. You can get mad and dismissive if you want to, it's ultimately no skin off my ass. Just do me one small favor though? When you finally get sick of the blackened, skewed world you can't be persuaded to abandon even an inch thereof, please only off yourself. Don't go on some rampage. Feel free to stop treating this as some kind of argument in which egos are involved, because that's not my intention. You're flinching away from a blow that's never gonna come.

I guess I'll end this fool's odyssey myself. If any lurkers have been reading, by any chance, I hope that even one iota of what I've written might at least give the barest, glimmering hint at a more peaceful world. I've been where you are myself, and I love you.

>>19557238
Begone simp

>>19557222
Women are free to choose their partners now. They have more rights, freedoms and economic opportunities than ever before. They are free to choose whoever they want. Also men have the same rights, freedoms and economic opportunities. Technology has advanced and there is healthcare and medicine. This is what peak freedom looks like.

>>19557237
>Just be a real fucking man bro like high test real fucking maaaaan broo
>also here is a picture of a statue

>>19557238
>I'll end this fool's odyssey myself
Good

>>19557238
You are a good person. Thank you.

>>19556848
But what if a new newton is born but happens to not be neurotypical?, OG newton fucked bitches when he wanted to as far as i know

>>19556864
Yes. The whole point of Civilization and Masculinity is the subjugation of nature to our will.

>>19556839
B&R

>>19556911
Grow woman in pods, y'know, like when you grown plants and shit

>>19557250
>Just be a real fucking man bro
Yes, pretty much. Either that, or accept that nothing will ever change for the better and 10 years from now you will be nostalgic for the kind of life you have today.

>>19557271
That would make women superfluous.

>>19557275
>Do the fucking work. Be the fucking hard ass real man bro. Be the lion king and slay the dragon! But only if you are an incel because that means you are weak willed little bitch! Raargh!
I have never heard such an original message

>>19557287
>real life isn't original
When first young Maro in his boundless mind
A work t' outlast immortal Rome design'd,
Perhaps he seem'd above the critic's law,
And but from Nature's fountains scorn'd to draw:
But when t' examine ev'ry part he came,
Nature and Homer were, he found, the same.
Convinc'd, amaz'd, he checks the bold design,
And rules as strict his labour'd work confine,
As if the Stagirite o'erlook'd each line.
Learn hence for ancient rules a just esteem;
To copy nature is to copy them.

>>19556926
coomer loser get a grip, your post is a fail. anyone who is half decent human being can get a girlfriend, most of my friends who dont have one yet give other things priority before women which is not necessarily a bad thing. i don't know what kind of dystopian shithole you live in but people here are mostly calmer about finding a partner than me and i didnt really stress about it either.

>>19557295
How much hard work and being a real man does this pic rel guy need to do before he stops being a weak little bitch?

>>19557287
Guess why you keep hearing it? Because it's the truth. You have to be proactive and innovative, you have to be strong and intelligent, you have to be better than other men to advance your station. This has been said long before you were born because it's the only key to success there is. But it's not what effeminate faggots like yourself like to hear, because it means that you have to spend every waking hour and every free moment of your time thinking of new ways to earn money, or improve yourself, or otherwise change things and upset the balance. Instead of you know, jerking off to cuckime and bitching like a woman about the "good old days" (which never happened like you imagine them to have happened and were in fact a miserable nightmare).
In the good old days, you were more likely to get a wife, sure. Because you fucking needed her! Because your arms were falling off your body after the day's work in the field or a factory, and you could not possibly do any house or yard-work. But why the fuck do you incels think that said woman would be a fucking anime girl? An average woman would be just like the average man! An ugly, disgusting fucking retarded fat el goblina witch, with whom you would bicker and argue constantly and have nothing in common (because you were wed at 16), and whom you could barely tolerate. And who got all the hot chicks? You guessed it. Same fucking man who gets them today. But please continue to seethe and cry even more. Like a woman.

>>19557113
Based and whitepilled. When younger I was ok with being a quiet introvert - and it worked for me socially and financially. I don't exactly know when but I've internalized the chad/incel/pills memes from here and became a bitter person. I was trying to live up to the "embrace tradition, be a barbarian" mindset when that's not who I am. Your post made me realize that and now I need to self reflect. Thanks.

>>19557323
Not going to read an essay of "just do real fucking work like a real man raargh" btw

>>19557298
t. incelmaxx 3000

>>19557136
>>19557145
I am ESL so maybe I could express my thoughts better.
My point is that humans this days live for really long time (85+). If they dont pair up

>>19557332
Hey, it's more pussy for me. I just like to dab on losers such as yourself more than anything. I never said all men could be what I described. Most can't, obviously. You should probably kill yourself, just saying. Why continue the misery if you won't even attempt to fix it? Life will only get worse for you.

>>19557338
...young they likely wont pair up at all. So eventually you will have epidemics of both men and women alone past certain age

>>19556824
You'd have to have something like lifelong monogamy with the extreme discouragement of sexual promiscuity, and maybe some kind of legal incentive to remain married, such as not allowing divorce except in the form of annulment with no divorce settlement.

What a crazy, utopian, futuristic notion. It's not realistic.

>>19557343
Your message is to get pussy at all cost. This is gynocentric simping. I hope some day you find some content to your life

This seems pretty poorly researched to me. Lots of assumptions being made as well

>>19557336
trolling on a transdnistrian irrigation image hub will get us nowhere, young lad.
read a book.
reconnect with family.
touch grass.

>>19557237
Resources>attractiveness

>>19557359
your impotent copes won't get you anywhere either, you're just setting yourself up for ageing tinder roast who will divorcerape you, kek

Sounds interesting, I've bookmarked the book.

Now the fact that the author is a woman, with a title in zoology, is a plus in my view. I know all the male le redpill viewpoints and I've known them since 2013. Nothing new to gain from that, so if I guy had written the book, unless it really just goes through dry biology, it would be nothing new.
She seems to be a feminist, but I'll stomach that.

There's nothing wrong with female selection imho. I don't care if 50% of men around me a virgin, whatever. They life. Play video games or whatever. It's a stupid narrative that men who go sexless are aggressive and depressed, you can cope without sex. What's bad a true redpill narrative is that far too many women miss out on getting pregnant in their 20's and drift into a depressed life of their own making. Good if those women get educated, suck big cock from 16 to 23 but then get serious about pinning down alpha or at least beta bucks. I'm 35 and I really hate seeing ex gf's from 10 years ago, people I like, going down (presumably) childless.

>>19557376
>I don't care about anything that happens around me lol
This is true intellectualism

>>19557376
>Good if those women get educated, suck big cock from 16 to 23 but then get serious about pinning down alpha or at least beta bucks

>>19557279
Correct

>>19557376
>Men who have to be alone and childless? Doesn't matter. The tragedy is women who have to be childless.
Fuck off simp retard

>>19557387
Not what I said at all.
I care for women not getting to reproduce. I care for birth rates being below 2.1 in Europe.
No I don't care about ugly men dying never having seen a pussy. Sure, the institute of marriage made it so that that was a rares occation in the last hundrets of years, but it's not actually that big of a deal, from a mental health perspective, as incels make it out to be. It's not too bad if some good man has babies with 4 women. Think about it.

>>19557394
Simp how

>>19557013
NEVER SURRENDER

>>19557397
Why would anyone want that life?
>spend huge amounts of time on social media, get distastefully drunk, have risky casual sex with strangers, spend more time on social media, rinse, repeat
Sure, the two of them are nice to look at. Do you think either of them will ever manage to fit some real learning and knowledge into their busy schedules of social preening and mutual grooming? They probably don't care about these things. You might not either. But if you do care, that's not a fucking "cope." Those are your values. Take ownership of them and don't make fucking concessions for overly social gladhanders who don't give a shit about you. Why care about them?

>>19557397
>I care for birth rates being below 2.1 in Europe.
>Wants to give women complete control over the sexual market place
Pick one and only one please.

>>19557397
>I care for birth rates being below 2.1 in Europe
Is this what they mean by right-wing cuckoldry?

>>19557397
>but it's not actually that big of a deal, from a mental health perspective, as incels make it out to be

It's either bait or a not very bright person

>>19556824
You're stupid.

>>19557446
No, it's what they mean by consumerist ideology.

>>19556839
Nobody is disputing that men are superior (we all know they are)—this book simply recognizes that, despite men being superior in all those ways you’ve listed, BEAUTIFUL WOMEN still hold all the power (evolutionarily) . Kek. It’s okay to swallow the black pill and move on with life<333

I wish I was never born

>>19557490
As long as you're alive you can still have sex, Anon. You'll love it.

>>19557370
sure

>>19556872
Reminder: Most women at some point settle for a tolerable beta provider

>>19557490
I thank God every day that I shall most likely perish before this vision becomes reality.

>>19556949

but I am a chad

>>19557309
He needs to loose body fat, guy has a double chin, being fat and bald is a disaster.

He can look good if he got jacked, which means he stops being a bitch and starts working out.

>>19556911
https://www.cosmopolitan.in/life/features/a25896/india-has-more-women-men-first-time-according-nfhs-survey
1020 females to 1000 males.

>>19557490
Same. The second my parents die I'm gonna eat a 20 inch knife.

>>19557534
Count me in

>>19556949
ya it's always a little sad when some chick says "all guys cheat it's just a fact" and all the non-manslut dudes in the room are thinking "uhh, no just the guys you attract with your thotty ways"

>>19557166
Yeah, this is the problem with retards that wrote the book in OP's picture, they take the data and just use it to come up with their own preconceived schizo theories. Richard Feymann liked to call this cargo cult science.

>>19557534
>muh parents
I still don't fucking get this. Those are the fucks that brought this entire misfortune about, why should you be worried about their consolation? They'll easily get over in, at minimum, a year or so; you're the one who actually has to have the nadgers to kick the chair.

The suicide is the victim, always; not the parents.

t.future roper

>>19557441
When women have the power over the sexual market place they do NOT reproduce. Even in China the city women don't want to date and don't want children.

>>19557523
So you do admit that the purpose of life is looks and getting sex. Career or intellectual does not matter if you aren't a sex emperor.

>>19556824
>If I keep repeating my massive copes are actually hard truths, I can save my fragile ego and avoid having to put actual work and effort into coming to grips with reality and improving myself, because that's haaaard

>>19557554
I know but I care for them somewhat. Even though my dad never tought me anything and my mom is mentally ill at least I know I have someone to talk to, even though they probably forget it the next day. Once i'll truly be isolated I will have no qualms about roping. I live alone and I have no friends so I got a pretty good taste of total isolation. And let me tell you that I can't handle it.

>>19557556
>Even in China the city women don't want to date and don't want children
I can respect that, as I don't care about the human species at all... but western women who refuse to reproduce but take 47 different cocks before they even finish college are despicable.

>>19557562
Not the nigga you replying to, but I never said that. If he wants to obtain a relationship then he should improve his physique, I'm not making grand stating metaphysical claims about the whole thing, retard. It is common sense that being a fat nigga with a double chin (on both genders) is bad for finding someone willing to get in a relationship with you.

Jesus, this whole thread is basically people taking the book in OP as gospel truth and then performing some kind of masochistic self cutting by saying "its ogre", "its ogre", "cope", "its ogre", "cope".

Damn, get original.

>>19556824
>biology that everybody knows
>and that's why women have all the power and should control society and marriage should be abolished and all the dangerous incels have to get brave new worlded I'm a feminist blogger btw

you really thought I would fall for this huh?

>>19557602
>incels screech that women only fuck alphas
>"Lol, have sex loser"
>women themselves admit it
>"Haha not true"
Kys

>>19557591
But what if he still doesn't get anything even after weight loss and lifting weights? You reduce life to "just be good looking so you can get women" because realistically women don't care whether you can cure cancer or not if you are ugly or short.

>>19557614
What are you even saying? Are you some kind of ESL retard?

>>19557617
What if he dies tomorrow? What if he looses his leg while walking? What if? What IF?

stop living in fear, if he wants to improve his chances then he should loose weight, simple as.

>>19557619
You're the retard, and the worst kind as well - a simping simpleton. The OP book only confirms what incels already know from theory and sexually active men know from experience. It's just unusual for women to admit it, because they greatly benefit from tricking betas.

>>19557627
Tell me what if he can't get any women even after weight loss. Just tell the next step in this master plan

Curing cancer, getting PhD, working hard, having a meaningful job means jackshit if you dont lift weights to impress women. Just admit men are clowns and women are the audience.

>>19557638
You're either a non subtle troll or really retarded. Your caricature is a bit too extreme, work on being a bit more subtle next time.

>>19557646
No arguments, I see. Terminal case of Reddit's gynocentric conformism and cuckoldry.

>>19557652
Yeah, I'm a reddit gynocentric cuckold that has had over multiple vasectomies and I also have many wife son's.

>>19557660
Probably for the best tbf.

>>19556824
Montaigne and Schopenhauer articulated this already, so the only thing she's really done is add quantitative data to their claims about female hypergamy

1. Human beings are the apex predator of the planet. We won the evolutionary arms race with our brains, not our bodies. As soon as we mastered fire and rudimentary tools it was basically over for our competition. Our greatest enemies were other "human"-like species such as the Neanderthals, and we fucked and fought them to extinction

2. Generally speaking, the population of any species follows a boom-bust cycle that resembles a sinusoidal curve. Rabbits breed wildly, create a population explosion, deplete all the local resources, starve and die of diseases brought about by overcrowding, drop to a very tiny population, and then start all over again. It's possible for a predator species and a prey species to create brief periods of equilibrium, but in Nature this falls apart as soon as the system is disturbed.

3. Human populations don't do this. Human populations tend to obey an S curve. The rate of growth of population is typically at its maximum when half of the carrying capacity of the environment is reached, and then levels off to a flat rate.

4. This is because human beings' reproductive instincts are constantly being modified by what we know about our environments and what we can predict about the future. This is what women are good at. The question of "should I reproduce?", "when should I reproduce?", "with whom should I reproduce?", "how many times should I reproduce?" - all of these things are being weighed, measured, and appraised, constantly, on a completely unconscious level by women. Life is their natural field of genius. The fact that men built civilization in order to secure access to pussy is meaningless to them; for a woman, civilization is more like a nest men have built to tempt her into having children inside it. If the nest is poisonous in some way she'll violently resist all male attempts to reproduce with her; if it looks as though the nest might collapse within the next fifteen years, aka, the amount of time it would take her to create and nurture a fully developed human being from scratch, good fucking luck tricking her into having a baby, gentlemen.

5. Generally speaking, reluctant women can only be overwhelmed by force or deceived. The men you're all calling "chad" are not necessarily the cream of the crop, genetically speaking. What they are are men who have mastered the art of deceiving women's reproductive instincts. They smell and look healthy, they know what virtues to signal, they know how to *appear* to be perfect mating candidates. They're the used car salesmen of the race to reproduce. Rape is the other strategy, and it's more successful than you'd expect. A surprising number of relationships begin through force. "It's only rape if I decide I didn't like it" is simply the corollary to "It's not rape because I decided I liked it"

>>19558813
Neither Schopenhauer or Montaigne said any of this.

>>19556824
>calls for a departure from the romantic notion that men and women can be happy in lifelong monogamy
You can't be happy if you're a soul-dead cunt whose entire purpose in life is to suck as many cocks as possible. For men and women of virtue, monogamy and family will continue to be a sourch of lifelong fulfillment and purpose.

>>19558813
>The question of "should I reproduce?", "when should I reproduce?", "with whom should I reproduce?", "how many times should I reproduce?" - all of these things are being weighed, measured, and appraised, constantly, on a completely unconscious level by women. Life is their natural field of genius
>thinking women are this rational
>it's supposed to be unconscious too

So tiring

>>19556824
What kind of kikery is this book? This is all urbanized bollocks. This whole problem is due to overpopulation and media. Not to be Mr. AnPrim but if you live in a tribe with 10 men and you meet another tribe with 10 women, everyone except maybe the worst of the worst possible fuckups of nature end up with a wife. "Average" people (this was measured by comparing facial symmetry etc.) are in fact attractive to women and men alike. Those weird graphs where women select 1% of men shouldn't exist without "dating" (hookup) sites.
The current state of hypergamy is the result of an overabundance of choice and overpopulation. Create small communities of people who have family as one of their values instead of fucking like wild pigs and this problem disappears.

>>19556824
Time to help men then:
>Subsidized surrogacy.
>Legalized prostitution (sex is vastly overrated, but it should be available for men who want it).

>>19556834
Based and truthpilles

>>19556864
Statistics have proved that incels have very high IQs. Most of the greatest geniuses of all time were autistic betas.

>>19556824
I found this brutal review (translated from German):
>The author advertises her book with a degree in biology and a doctorate in epidemiology. Obviously, the studies did not lead to the application of even the lowest basics of scientific work in this book, which can also be seen in the extremely sparse and incomplete bibliography, in which not even the pioneer of the topic "female choice", the now emeritus professor of anthropology Meredith F. Small is mentioned. And so not only is there a lack of any evidence for crude assertions, but the book also reveals an image of men and women alike that we have nevertheless already left far behind us. Is the author, who presents herself as a pseudo-feminist, not up to date with the latest gender research? In any case, this book does a disservice to our society - to women, men and diverse people - and is certainly not fit for the future.

>>19559451
Every time someone brings up how highly intelligent I am/seem in an interview or date I know I’m never going to see them again.
It happens weirdly often.
And no they’re not being sarcastic.

>>19556848
Subsidized surrogacy can already solve the problem. We would have never discovered the remedies of incurable diseased or travelled to other continents if we accepted the "natural system". Besides, women can easily breed, it doesn't matter how they look or how they behave.

>>19557556
That's exactly my point, baby.
""Muh patriarchy""" (traditional marriage plus limited women's rights) is the only safeguard of a healthy birth rate.

>>19556824
>“They are the 'rest', the non-premium males, who remain after the evolutionary screening process and have no chance of reproduction. This phenomenon has only been suppressed to this day by the male civilization that controlled and disenfranchised women. "
>Now Meike Stoverock makes suggestions as to what the coexistence of men and women could look like in a post-male civilization, a world order in which women tend to choose several alpha men in the course of their lives, but in which not every pot has a lid. She reckons with the institution of marriage, in which she sees an instrument of the oppression of women, and calls for a departure from the romantic notion that men and women can be happy in lifelong monogamy.

Even in this surprising moment of admission, she's still utterly unaware of the fact that the labor of beta males is required to run a civilization.

>"Today's world population has about twice as many female as male ancestors, so in pre-cultural times around 70% of women mated with 35% of men."

Having only 35% of men invested in the system doesn't sound particularly stable.

Her Twitter is pretty funny, it's her posting pictures of her dinner (alone) in front of the TV and complaining about running out of prosecco.

>>19558813
The fourth point you make is very interesting, cheers anon. Not sure if true, but interesting.

Is evopsych a respected field among other scientists? I don't see how it's any different than bro psychology or just guessing based on your intuition
>bro we EVOLVED to behave like this
Says who?

>>19557609
same old story

>unpleasant truth becomes so widely known that shitlibs and leftists are forced to acknowledge it
>"okay, fine, it was true all along, but here's why it's a good thing"

>ctrl+f hero
>0 results
The fact that none of you have read Herodotus and that none of you considered killing yourselves despite the former leads me to believe there is no hope for this board.

Does this book account for rape

>>19559546
Sounds like she's a FemaleDatingStrategy regular.

>>19559581
I'm pretty sure all of psychology is pseudoscience.

>>19556911
They'll probably be sent to colonize africa

>>19556824
A possible rational explanation of the so-called discrimination between the two sexes could partly lie in the notion of investment, biologically and socially speaking : women are theorically less productive than men due to their rarer, more energy and time-consuming gametes, which can't be wasted as easily and as often as sperm, an asymetrical investment that is generally extended after birth, through the raising of the offspring, not to mention the biological clock deadline that, on average, pushes consciously and unconsciously women to search for a suitable genitor and a potential reliable father earlier. In rough terms of reproduction, out of monogamy, long-term relationship considerations, men don't have to rush and select as carefully as possible since they are usually enduring and abundant. Age well and you may benefit from fresh, fertile flesh later if not now.

>>19559581
What's so evopsych about what she's saying?

>>19559675
The invention of birth control pills makes all of that irrelevant

>>19559703
It doesn't. The psychology still operates the same.

>>19559721
Ask any young woman if she's in a hurry to have kids.

>>19559729
That's not his point though.

After the institution of civilization, man became the dominant organism on the planet. This eggless cunt is trying to smugle in mutually contradictory normative claims from evopsych and the usual radfem twatwanking.

The interesting thing is that Chads actually reproduce less. So women are breeding less attractive males with each generation.

>>19558848
>he got pissed off because he thought that using the word "genius" means I am saying that women are smart
ESL?
>That criminal is a genius of pickpocketing
It does not always have a positive connotation. I'm saying that whatever "minds" women have are fundamentally different from yours.

As for the guy who hasn't read Schopenhauer on women or Montaigne's essay On some verses of Virgil, whom I will not reward with a (You), congratulations on being a genius of cuckoldry

>>19559767
I wouldn’t be surprised if about 25-35% of children supposedly fathered by beta providers were actually Chads’, not to mentioned all those single mothers (usually knocked up by dominant brutes) plus kids Chad eventually has once he decides to start a family.

>>19559747
>the biological clock deadline that, on average, pushes consciously and unconsciously women to search for a suitable genitor and a potential reliable father earlier.
His point is contingent on women being in a rush to reproduce due to their physiology. They're not. No young woman is in any hurry to have kids. No young woman is looking for a long term partner. Birth control pills have made sex a hobby so the whole function of mating has been totally upended. It is irrelevant that a man is virile longer than a woman because the problem of mating still persists.

>>19559810
I mean you're right, but keep in mind that highly promiscuous men also die younger, etc. However you look at it, the math still favors the betas. Women are domesticating men.

>>19559832
>Women are domesticating men.
That's hot

>>19559824
>No young woman is in any hurry to have kids
Yes. Are they in a hurry to fuck though? It's the exact same thing to our monkey brain.

>>19559832
In what sense? I really don’t see the life of raising three kids (one of which is Chad’s) with a jaded, aging woman who could ruin your life with divorce anytime you displease her as any kind of victory.

>>19559835
Muh monkey brain is entirely irrelevant. Agents are making the conscious and deliberate decision to forego breeding due to an availability of birth control. All concepts of mating and pair bonding which precede birth control are now irrelevant.

>>19559866
Oh I'm not saying it's a good thing.

>>19559875
>Muh monkey brain is entirely irrelevant
If this were true, everyone would conduct themselves perfectly. Our mind evolved in a different environment, it's adapted to a different environment.

>>19558813
5th point interesting and I suspect true. I've seen many Chad's get overlooked by women for far lesser men because they don't wear a certain thing, talk a certain way, or have an active Instagram account. Female attraction really is more simple and cynical than it appears

That sounds pretty twisted. How about we just go back to arranged marriages? Take the women's choice out of the equation.

>>19559899
Correct, they’re very primitive sexually and easily exploited if you know what you’re doing. Still, a tall masculine guy with dark triad personality can fuck a hundred different women per year with minimum effort.

>>19559893
It's irrelevant to the scope of this conversation

>>19559969
I disagree completely.

>>19559939
In typical leftist fashion they want to have their cake and eat it too.
This is a strictly social problem but they want the state to step in with solutions like state-mandated gfs or monthly prostitute visits or sex dolls.
Instead of examining how their policies have fucked up social dynamics they’d rather hand over more power to the state over our lives so “they” will fix the mess they created.

>>19559939
I'd like to see some statistics on arranged marriages. Because they aren't built on passion or romantic love I have a feeling they are a much stronger foundation for a relationship as duty is built into its core structure, the duty of a son and a daughter to unite two families and raise everyone up. Duty and responsibility is a much better start to a relationship than passion.

>>19556992
Not him but also, women look at men as a chance to rise in the social circle, females will often go for blokes higher or at the same level as them, rarely lower. Men look for someone who fits what they internally believe will make someone a good mother.
It's why usually when a woman gets cosmetic surgery, they fuck off their old partner and get a new one. It's happened at least three times at my work, tummy tuck followed by fucking the boss

>>19556834
>bug-men lowlifes who would otherwise riot and cause problems for the establishment
did you arrive last week? you're trying too hard and completely misusing those terms. don't ever fucking post again.

>>19556954
You are powerless over women, you have power over yourself. You project your anger and insecurity onto women to avoid looking at yourself. I know because that's what I used to do.

>>19557016
I feel like that guy would be hilarious to hang around with. The idea of showing up to a party with that shirt holding balloons surrounded by insecure young people trying to impress the opposite sex is hilarious to me.

>>19556949
>They're a lot like the male version of slampigs
>Often very charismatic and physically attractive
Did you find this website last week?

>>19556824
>>Not all males get a chance, many remain without females and without sex

there's almost a 50/50 ratio between males and females, if a certain number of males lose his chance to get a female, then that means a female will also lose her chance to have a male

>>19556984
>Have the courage to break with convention
That is convention. Why do you think bad boys are attractive? Because they are anything but conventional

>>19556949
this anon is right

>>19560238
Not really

>>19560157
So what? Should we just dismiss the actions of women because they hate the idea of personal responsability?

>>19560217
Anecdotally the girls I know are more likely to fuck a guy that their friend has fucked. Guy's in the other hand will not pursue a girl their friend has fucked.

>>19556848
A lot of brilliant people are voluntarily celibate and not interested in sex or reproduction. Too absorbed in their work. Tesla was handsome and refused to get married, and Florence Nightingale was a woman and a beautiful one but preferred working with statistics to romantic relationships. Socially awkward geniuses who want kids should be supplied by the government with surrogates but do people who don't want to participate in reproduction need to be forced? It reminds me of that one Russian mathematician who became a hermit, Putin is trying to force him to return to society

>>19560011
Marriage is entirely utilitarian. Western marriages are failing because we base them on some disney princesses notion of true love and romance. In reality, honeymoon love is very fleeting

>>19560263
>It reminds me of that one Russian mathematician who became a hermit, Putin is trying to force him to return to society
kek tell me more

>>19556824
I mean we are essentially still animals. Nature is ruthless. We have other species tearing each other to threads for the attention of a female. The answer to all of this is to dedicate yourself to becoming the strongest, toughest person you can, whether that be physically, mentally or spiritually. All three are interconnected. Women want strong men and other men respect strong men. We need to be this way to survive as a species.

What I find funny with the incel types is how they view ugly or overweight women. They don't even acknowledge the possibility of having them as a partner, they feel above them and entitled to a woman who is extremely physically attractive. They are just as vapid and shallow as the "Staceys" they talk about who won't give them the time of day. In my opinion ugly women have it much worse than ugly men. Men can at least improve their attractiveness through working out and becoming successful. While for women, they are almost exclusively judged on their physical appearance by men. The data supports this, men don't tend to care about how much money the woman makes. It's all about her looks. Men are actually much more shallow when it comes to dating compared to women. For women, personality and your strength of character actually makes a difference. Looks are still taken into account of course, but for men it's almost all looks.

>>19560280
Grisha Perlman

He came out of nowhere, published a groundbreaking paper, won the biggest award in mathematics and half a million dollars, then went to pick mushrooms in the forest with his mom forever

>>19560305
>then went to pick mushrooms in the forest with his mom forever
thats pretty funny. based mush picker

>>19560280
Not that anon but looked him up. I think he's talking about Grigori Perelman. Declined the nobel prize in math in 2006, became disillusioned with mathematics and lived as a hermit in Andorra, now lives with his mother in St Petersburg.

>>19560280
Scandal in the mathematics realm. Basically
>Old Jew solves math problems that has been bothering mathematicians for centuries like cracking nuts, publishes great paper
>Wins lots of money
>Could have gotten himself a professorship position at all the best universities in towns with lots of hot blond girls
>Decides that he hates society and feels a connection to nature and goes into the woods to live in a hut
>Only person allowed near him is his mom
>Yells at anyone who tries to convince him to come back, says that he is busy picking mushrooms
Putin thinks he is useful and should be forced to come back to society against his will, also reproduce and make savant Jew children. He doesn't want

>>19560323
sounds pretty based to me

>>19560323
>>19560305
>>19560321
The writer Brett Forrest briefly interacted with Perelman in 2012.[65][66] A reporter who had called him was told: "You are disturbing me. I am picking mushrooms."[67]

>>19559824
It must be read as deeply buried psychological process induced by biological latent realities, not as an active fact : on why women seem to have most of the control on what remains of the human mating system according to OP. Not erected as a truth though.

>>19560336
Kek. That's the problem. True geniuses start to hate society more than they are hated by them. The slightly above average "nerd" is more likely to feel bitter about not being allowed to partake in social pleasures and romance

Why are men so jelly that they will never feel what it's like if a big aggressive cock is gliding up and down your offices

>>19560286
Nah, it's easier for women as you mention. A woman just needs to take care of her looks. For a man it's that plus money plus personality.

Why do people ITT attack her when the logic presented is exactly the popular redpill logic on 4chan and reddit?

>>19560411
Because it comes from a different place.
We 4channers are essentially social reformers, we point out the uncomfortable truths of sexual inequality in our society, meanwhile she comes off as a reactionary defending the privileges of the elite and the status quo, using social Darwinist rhetoric that in any other context would get you cancelled as a hard right winger (for example, when it comes to race).

>>19560411
>and reddit
I like how 4chan's falseflags still endure in the minds of gullible normies.
Anyway, how can an incel get a gf?

>>19560371
Your post implies all women are attractive and they're not, there are plenty of ugly women out there. Incels don't even acknowledge that they exist.

>>19560482
There are also ugly men who are simply too ugly.

>>19560490
I've seen a lot more physically attractive women with ugly, successful men than attractive men with ugly, successful women. I don't think anyone can dispute this.

>>19560508
I also don't think that gold digging is genuine affection. I'm just saying that, as you stated, women have to only care about one thing whereas men about three things

>>19560482
It's ironic because femcel message boards do the same. They think ugly men don't exist.

>>19556824
nooooo not the sexerino

>>19560508
Also incels, because they generally have fuck all life experience and don't leave their mothers basements, think that attractive women are with these men for the money, which is an over simplification. They are with them for their ability to succeed in competitive environments, to persuade others, for their masculine strength and presence, It's not all about the money.

The CEO of the engineering firm I did my internship with is married to a model 20 years younger than him and has three kids. he's short and not particularly physically attractive. But she's with him because of his ability to succeed in business, his intelligence and his leadership abilities. Mental toughness in other words. There are examples like this all over the place. The world is a lot more complicated than incels make it out to be. Of course that's what ideologies are. Over simplifications of complex issues, that then offer "the answer" to these problems. I was a red-piller and it put me into such a dark, resentful place. Taking on these kinds of black pill views is also a cop out that lets you avoid taking responsibility for your own life and blame women for the shitty life you have.

>>19560520
See my follow up >>19560520

it's just so wrong to think all women are basically prostitutes who only care about money. Anyone who has actually interacted with a lot of women would realise this is complete rubbish, but a naive, insecure teenager will take it as truth. I fell into red pill ideologies in my late teens and I fell for it hook line and sinker.

>>19560565
>But she's with him because of his ability to succeed in business, his intelligence and his leadership abilities
You mean money, anon?

>>19560589
>>19560592

>>19560589
Sure anon, but the fact is, going by what you said: women must balance one thing to attract a partner; men three things. But I will say that usually you are simply fucked either way as a dude if you don't have sufficient social skills or if you don't fit with the crowd like an autist.

>>19560622
In other words: to say that women on a whole have it harder is nonsense.

>>19560622
Fucked in terms of what though? Imperfections are what make us human. Everybody has them. Look at Zuckerberg, Musk. Both would be considered strange and awkward as fuck at a college houseparty, which seems to be the lens most of you people use to judge social competence. You can still live a decent life. A guy I know is autistic and pretty strange, got bullied a lot as a kid and teenager, he works as an engineer, has hobbies he's obsessive about and has friends who accept him the way he is. Seems pretty happy to me. Kids and college students are immature, insecure and childish almost by definition.

I think most people on 4chan are introverted narcissists. They aren't socially successful and dominant but desperately want to be. That's why there's such an obsession with "Chad", who doesn't exist. They can't just accept themselves for the way they are and have enough humility to accept they have weaknesses and strengths. They also don't actually try to work on their weaknesses, instead blaming others for their problems. They want all women to find them attractive, which in their world is what Chad gets, which isn't true. They can't accept that there are some women that don't find them attractive, they have a hidden god complex combined with self hatred as they know on some level they are wrong.

>>19560711
>which in their world is what Chad gets, which isn't true
Men that get laid a lot more than others exist.

>>19560711
Fucked in terms of getting into a relationship which is what the topic at hand is about. Zuckerburg is not all that incompetent and neither is Musk even though he has aspergers but it's not the same for everyone. At least they go to college houseparties and even enjoy them to some degree, or not, they could just be faking it. And needless to say, they have something that incels don't like money and fame. Sure no one is perfect and no one pretends anyone on this plane can be perfect, I don't get what you are implying.
I'm going to ignore your armchair psychoanalysis that underlines your inability to empathize.

>>19560780
I said men that every woman finds attractive. I don't think there is a man alive that every single woman finds attractive. Of course there are men that are more successful than others. The question is what are YOU going to do? Sit in you mommas basement and whinge about how unfair life is? Or focus on the things you can actually do something about and maybe find a partner to have a real relationship with instead of fantasising about a life of empty, casual sex. There are good, decent women out there who just want to have a normal relationship with a decent guy. Yeah they might fantasize about having a relationship with Brad Pitt or some famous musician, the same way you fantasise about fucking Sofia Vergara or whatever 10/10 you might want. But she realises she isn't getting a relationship with Brad Pitt and you realise you arent getting to fuck Sofia Vergara.

I don't know man, the people here just seem so lost and immature. Get out in the fucking world and actually try to be open to the idea that everyone isn't an evil heartless monster and you might be surprised as to what might happen.

>Material base for men being a provider hasn't existed since the seventies
>Women (feminists) lie and pretend it's still there so they don't have to confront the fact they're the new favourites of the neoliberal order
>Assess men by these standards

Their chronic lies and refusal to adjust to the last fifty years of societal change are the biggest issues. They use feminism as a veneer to avoid analyzing the new social conditions, it's cowardly and dishonest and that's why it appeals to them.

itt: mental illness

>>19560838
>I said men that every woman finds attractive. I don't think there is a man alive that every single woman finds attractive.
Literally nobody claims this. You're attacking a straw man.

The solution has already been chosen and is being rolled out in South Korea (lowest birthrate in the world and extreme sexual polarization) as we speak: AI friends and boyfriends/girlfriends that are integrated into smart devices and encourage you to work and consume. The problem discussed in the book might not even matter at all, as "Chad" and women will eventually prefer digital waifus as well, as they would be tailored to the taste of the user, unlike real people, who have personality flaws and do gross things.

>>19560792
I think what incels don't want to accept is that they aren't in a relationship because of their bitter, entitled, resentful and anti-social attitudes. Many have never even properly tried to pursue a woman, or maybe have been rejected once or twice and then swore off ALL women. Some of them aren't even physically unattractive. I've just seen way too many examples of ugly guys dating beautfiful women because I've actually left the house and interacted with people, and a lot of women. It's the incels attitude and resulting personality that is so unattractive to people.

You don't think this "Chad" idea is a representation of a woman's perfect sexual mate? It certainly seems that way to me.

The thing is that I do empathise, I can understand how people develop these beliefs. I believed them myself when I was an isolated anti-social teenager who had barely interacted with women. But I believe these beliefs are seriously wrong and seriously damaging, and they crush many young men or turn them into monsters. The world they propose is so bleak and depressing that it's no wonder so many commit suicide or go on shooting sprees.

I see lost young men who obviously haven't had a bit of genuine encouragement in their entire lives who are looking for answers and finding them in the worst possible places. These incel/red pill / black pill ideologies are a form of brainwashing.

>>19560909
Think of how the internet was originally for nerds, lonely people, etc. and now highly successful and attractive people get addicted to twitter. Digital partners will be for incels and weeaboos at first, but will take over within a generation.

>>19560838
>I said men that every woman finds attractive
Yes indeed, YOU said that and pretend that the people here seriously believe that there is a man that absolutely every woman in the world will find attractive. Most of the "incels" actually do want a relationship and not casual sex, ffs you have guys here that say premarital/casual sex is simply bad.
And what even is a "decent guy"? Is it about holding the right beliefs and opinions or about how you "carry yourself"? At which point should one just stop being oneself in order to get what one wants? And honestly, most people are just fucking dumb and boring, not heartless. They're just idiots who've never read a single good book in their life or even just contemplated their existence. The deepest thing they'll ever read is some dumb quote on Instagram. MOST not all.

>>19560894
What is the Chad archetype then exactly? From what I can see, it's a tall attractive rich socially dominant man that all of the women want to fuck and have a relationship with. But because these men are rare and at the pinnacle of the social hierarchy, they settle for the "beta bucks", a guy with money who isn't physically attractive.

This sells the idea that if you are not a socially dominant rich alpha male playboy that you can never have true love, all you will ever get is the leftovers from successful men, women want and love chad but they settle for a loser like you for financial reason and stability, and will cheat on you every chance they get with physically attractive men,. I know exactly how this nonsense ideology operates, it's a crock of shit designed for insecure, lost young men

Isn’t the data proving the opposite or am I misunderstanding? I assume it means:
>Ghengis kills 99 men
>takes 99 women as sex slaves
>100% of women mated while only 1% of men did
If that’s what they mean by 70% vs 35% then wouldn’t that support male control of reproduction? To the victor go the spoils.

>>19560932
>From what I can see, it's a tall attractive rich socially dominant man that all of the women want to fuck and have a relationship with.
This except the 'all women's part.

>>19560323
>>19560336
>>19560263
blessed creature

>>19560913
encourage them with what? Something that presumably is not "brainwashing"? You can think all you want but the problem still remains despite it. These men simply do not fit in with common society. You can pretend to no longer want something that you can not have but the conscious man will always know that he is just deluding himself.

>>19560933
This roastie is using the data dishonestly to push her political agenda.
Anything she says is in bad faith.

>>19560933
You are dealing with a woman who thinks that monogamy, a feminine institution, is a form of patriarchal oppression.

>>19560913
You deserve a treat for that post!

>>19560937
What about everything else that I have said?

a decent guy is a kind, moral person who tries to do the right thing and treats others with respect. Someone who isn't fuelled by lust, pride, greed or ego. Obviously could go much deeper than that but I think that's a good start. It's almost easier to define a bad person and then try to look at the anithesis of it.

>At which point should one just stop being oneself in order to get what one wants?

Seems like you're suggesting the use of manipulation to try bend the world to your will. The answer is never in my book. The people who do that are lost souls who never actually achieve what they really want. They don't get away with it, not in the spiritual sense. They corrupt their soul for ill-begotten gains. successful red pill men are an example of that in my book. I used to be one. I started with the incel belief system, hating women, then moved into the red pill sphere, which is more about manipulating women to get sex. It was soul destroying and empty. I was more unhappy than ever. I felt lost and broken and I thought that sleeping with beautiful women would fix me. it didn't

>>19560964
>You can pretend to no longer want something that you can not have but the conscious man will always know that he is just deluding himself.

Here's the whole problem, you want something and feel entitled to it. You can want all you like, that doesn't mean you get it. It's the attitude of a spoiled child.

Doomerporn from a femdom memepsych dyke. Who cares.

>>19561009
seems like you don't know how to reply correctly.
>Someone who isn't fuelled by lust, pride, greed or ego
Are incels fueled by that or where you just fueled by that?
holding certain beliefs is deemed to be bad. That's what I was getting at. Could it be that one of the reasons why incels can't get a girl is because of their personality? Sure that would seem to put the fault squarely at themselves but it would mean that they should pretend to be someone they are not. And it's not like they've never tried.

>>19560928
You feel like you are superior to others because of your intelligence and you resent the fact that others are happier than you despite their supposed stupidity. Innate intelligence does not make you superior to anyone else. Intellectual superiority is your problem and why you are isolated from other people. The arrogance of the intellect and the sense of entitlement you have for being smart. There is a lot more to life than being smart.

>>19558838
Schopenhauer says as much in "On Women"

>>19561021
you have a twisted reading comprehension and just see things you want to reinforce your own views.
What in the fuck made you think I felt like I was entitled to it?
I said that you cannot exactly control what it is that you want, that's it.

>>19561065
I did not imply I was wholly superior to anyone. I was just trying to point out my relation to the people around me. There is nothing I have in common with them.

>>19561062
I think attitude rather than personality. I think it is their attitude towards the world that isolates them even further than they might already be isolated due to things like autism and social anxiety. |Someone with the latter problems who is kind, humble and respectful towards others tends to still be socially accepted despite their faults. I think its the social problems combined with the rotten nihilistic entitled attitude that causes their problems.

I'm genuinely fueled by the compassion I have for these people as I know how dangerous these kinds of beliefs are and how easy they are to believe if you don't have much life experience or a father figure. I haven't been on 4chan in years and I was pulled into this poisonous ideology as a teenager.

gentlemen, let go of the world and pick mushrooms with me

>>19557021
>Denial of free will = solipsism
Fucking pseuds I swear.

>>19561108
Do you think "incels" just lash out at every woman they see at college or work or do you think they do not know how to be polite precisely because of fear of being ostracized?
You're not so much fueled by compassion as you are fueled by a weird caricature of an "incel" that you have constructed in your mind. Maybe it's projection or maybe it's just what you tell yourself to make you feel better for overcoming this "poisonous ideology"

>>19556991
>evo-psych nonsense

Evolution psychology has never been debunked. It explains all human sexual behavior perfectly. Only arguments against it amount to "I don't like it because it makes me uncomfortable".

>>19556949
Thank you. I have also said this before and it is quite pathetic that people decide to worship "chads" instead of seeing them as the man whores poisoning the well that they actually are.

Chads create bitter used up cat lady's, blue haired feminists, and single moms with mulatto kids that 4channers hate so much but they never get any of the blame that they so rightfully deserve.

Are women innocent in all of this? No. They could choose to take advice from older women who got burned by boomer chads but many of them need to touch that hot stove-top themselves before they realize the error of their ways.

But for fuck sake chad also needs to start getting some flak for this bullshit as well. These scumbag playboy dandy's should be despised not venerated.

>>19557123
To elaborate on what >>19557142 said, removing undesired men not only robs you of their labour, but leaves you without any men at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy. Of course, you can't have *nobody* at the bottom, so the remaining males would stratify in short order and we're right back where we started, but with less men ie. highly productive members of society.

It gets even worse if they exile or destroy male offspring, because no matter how spectacularly wealthy, a small gang of men will not be able to defend against encroachment of a larger force of men from a comparatively more egalitarian society. Women may also serve as protectors in modern militaries, but there remains a risk that enough may defect. Women are a more valuable resource than men, so if they fear the defeat of their society, sense the winds of change blowing, they will barter flesh to preserve their lives and the prosperity of their offspring.

So the successful men must induce the unsuccessful to cooperate and produce for society. They do this by extending protection or threats of force, by provision or denial of sustenance and personal comforts, by the enticements of luxury and the sensual.

And there's an added benefit society extracts. The labours of low-status men can be extraordinary, particularly in youth. Valiant soldiers, dedicated students, the model of the "self-made man" is one that benefits the whole by selling the idea to the poor that if only they sweat enough for the betterment of the collective, they shall individually achieve wealth and status. And sometimes, that works out for them. So even against a stacked deck, the myth of meritocracy still stands to benefit low-status men. A number of them see it as their only way out. This is why nobody defends capitalism moreso than a disenfranchised man of low education and wealth. He sees it as his only ticket out.

>>19561130
How the fuck did you get
>"incels" just lash out at every woman they see at college or work

from
>I think it is their attitude towards the world that isolates them

You can have a bad attitude and not lash out at every woman you see. I'm guessing you are just lashing out because he struck a nerve because other people in your day to day life have also mentioned your bad attitude and you just don't want to own up to it.

This reminds me a lot of the debate between “capitalism” and “socialism”. Letting women have laisez faire control over the sexual economy is a sure-fire path to dysgenics (evolution does not guarantee positive outcomes, situationally successful individuals can come out on top) but incel revenge which leads to the raping (theft) of women is based off the same impulse of resentment that leftism is, which is another path to miscegenation and the destruction of a civilization.
So clearly the “third position” is arranged marriages according to caste, that way you prevent dysgenic outcomes while keeping the incel underclass of society satisfied enough to not revolt.

>>19561267
>More fucking schizo psychoanalysis.
I don't remember anyone mentioning I have a bad attitude. Either way, it's who I am I guess. I'm sorry I'm not laughing at every lame joke I hear or that I didn't see that lame Marvel movie or that I don't watch sports.

>>19557166
Those are important contributors to that value but:
>In reality the reason you have fewer male ancestors is because
That's an overly strong statement. I don't think the 65% of men born who never reproduced all died before they could pump one out. The figure is so comically lopsided that you would need apocalyptically bad mortality to account as the "cause"

>>19557355
Maybe, but I think I get what he's getting at, fellow incel here. You should always STRIVE to be the best improver (mostly physical and in terms of coldness and physical prowess) due to the sheer violent nature of life, or you become a target of getting shitkicked. That's just how it is on this bitch of an earth.

>>19561248
i didn't read your whole thing cuz its too damn long but from the first part, the problem is attractiveness does not follow class lines. dudes who are in the lumpenproletariat have A LOT of kids. a dude in my old neighborhood got stabbed to death because he was picking through what he thought were abandoned clothes on the side of the road, but actually someone had just been evicted and the evicted guy flipped out and stabbed the hell out of the dude in front of his kids...so we find out the stabbed to death guy had a total of NINE kids. that's more than elon musk, a very prolific offspring producer. ok, you guys are talking like like all these low income dudes in the projects aren't fucking. they aren't working, but they most definitely are fucking, unlike the tech bro cs masters guy working on adware 60 hours a week and then wacking off to anime when he gets home to his luxury rental.

I'm not willing to sacrifice myself for my race unless it means access to high quality pussy or if the collective has my back as an individual. These are disrupted by female mate choice, which sees women selecting only the upper echelon of men and society using men's disposability for the women. You're sacrificing yourself for people who, if you end up a failure, would gladly spit on your face. I don't particularly care what happens to those kind of people, even if they're white. I'm now much more forgiving of Jewish behavior and seeking my maximum amount of personal pleasure in life.

>>19560973
Monogamy is not feminine in any way, monogamy specifically exists to limit female hypergamy. That's the whole reason it was invented, to stop all women from fucking the alpha chad and ensure the rest of men get some pussy too.

>>19561314
it was to make sure that rich land owner's property goes to their offspring. it was a rule set up, like all rules, by the ruling class to protect their interests, not to protect the interests of sexless chuds. it's in engels if u can stomach reading lefty bullshit.

>>19560933
The thing you're misunderstanding is that women don't WANT to fuck anything other than the top level men, and that's what they will do unless forcibly and artificially prevented somehow. A woman will think one-fifth or even one-tenth share of a top tier man is better than having an entire mid-tier man all for herself. Thus monogamy is absolutely not something that happens naturally, what happens naturally is that almost all men go without pussy their entire lives, and it's not other men doing it to them, it's women rejecting them. Only way men have of circumventing this is either raping the women, or establishing a system of forced monogamy that prevents such behavior.

>>19561328
That makes no sense. It's more likely it had it's origin in republican ideals of egalitarianism. The romans and greeks were pretty much the only ones doing it.

>>19561363
the romans and greeks were openly gay and didn't give a shit about pussy. come on dudes if ur gonna post on /lit/ at least do the basic reading.

>>19557178
To add to what >>19557194 said, what observations? Stuff you read or saw on the internet doesn't qualify as much as you think it does. Assuming everything you observe by this medium is true, allowing no disinformation, what you have been shown has been selected by somebody.

That's the nature of the internet, same as printed media before it. Even stories we are told personally. Reality is filtered:
- at the point of creation (deciding to turn the camera on, taking screenshots, thinking before your keyboard, having something interesting to share with an acquaintance)
- in transit (by censors, big tech algorithms, lumped with popular content or with undesirable content)
- in front of you (what you choose to believe or disbelieve, your level of education or comprehension)

So barring what you personally have observed, you know very little, as do us all. Like our resident autist-in-chief here, I feel yourself and most other chan faggots forget too readily that averages and statistics are drawn from fields of widely varying individuals. Their actions as a group may be inferred, but your retarded ass will still spook off the few women decent enough to love you away when you start behaving like such a hurt and vengeful little boy. And so from your point of view inside your rectum, your observations then become indisputable fact. It's true for you isn't it? The women all spite you and treat you as an instrument, don't they? It didn't have to be like this bro.

>>19560838
You're smart as fuck and got interesting advise. But also a massive retard on some level. What' s your discord tag I want to talk to you

>>19557271
>>19557279
I would love to see a corny sci-fi wherein one female dominated society formed around a circle of ridiculously overpowered alpha warrior-poets-philosopher-kings wars against a rival civilization of men who reproduce in incubators.

The incubator fags can be commies or something. They'll have artificial wombs, but have not yet developed ova derived from stem cells, so they have to periodically capture women to harvest their gametes like techno vikings (but with less molly). I guess they'll all have to fuck each other too. Some Afghani pedo paradise type shit.

That's the conflict you can put on the movie poster: DESPOTIC CHAD OVERLORDS VS PEDO INCEL COMMUNISTS
Although I don't think kiddy-diddlers would qualify as celibate.

>>19561294
Based

>>19561470
Holy based. I should tell someone about this if I ever get into the movie industry

>>19556824

Is there any evidence that human beings handled sexual selection similarly to modern America & Europe? Customs of dowery and bride price go back to tribal customs in Europe. Is there any proofs that "female choice" was the single or overwhelming driver of modern human evolution? I feel like this assumption is taken for granted and isn't well supported

>>19561531
>>19561556

Btw very based how it's impossible to delete posts on mobile. Ty hiroshima

>>19561009
You're retarded because what incels really want is not really bitches, but to be treated fairly, which no one does because they're ugly or autistic subhumans. Women exacerbate the issue because that's how bitches are, and the society's social structure exists to have incels as an abused expendable slave class. That's why they're resentful. Also, might makes right, people who live and survive are the people who matter at the end of the day. As long as you can have power over people at your whim and feel protected/secure from threats, you will be satisfied.

>>19561556
There really isn't. Tbh its just that westerners are sex obsessed degenerate freaks who view everything as a causal form of hedonistic origin
>humans invented astrolabes
>why?
>So uhhh men can get bitches in far away lands cus muh evolution

>>19556824
>Stoverock thinks about sex assistants and the role of prostitution, she describes pornography as a possible “socially acceptable support” for men.
Does no one else find it laughable how she suggests whores and porn would serve as purposeful motivation for men? A reason for them to sustain and participate in society at large?
Or does she simply not understand the end-results of meaninglessness in societal participation; the dropping out and withdrawal of masculine efforts from the rat race should men not achieve anything of worth in return?

>>19561615
I already pointed it out here >>19559983.
These “solutions” aren’t going to work but she wants to force things because it’s easier than admitting that the system needs some fundamental fixing and that the voices of “incels” and “misogynists” aren’t unreasonable as the mainstream would like the public to believe

>>19556824
I don't know, maybe I'm a pseud but Stoverock seems behind the times. She wants to do away with marriage to restore the primacy of female selection, but reproductive science is already undermining it more than monogamy ever did. Just take surrogacy, a woman leases her womb to bear a fetus for someone she may not even know, and with IVF it may not even be related to her. What will we become when the woman's natural monopoly on gestation is no longer intact, and incels can order as many babies as they want with mommy's credit card?

>>19561664
How dilute is the blackpill into the normie population among zoomers and young teen children? I've heard it said its becomming quite popular now

>>19556824
Like my grandma always said
>los hijos dde mis hijas son mis hijas son mis nietos los hijos de mis hijos a saber de quien son
My dad stopped talking to her and she feels bad about hating on us and my mom all these years. Just fuck it all. Global warming cannot come sooner. Mammals were a mistake and I hope they all get wiped out

>>19556864
>>it can't be me it's the whole of nature that's wrong
Based and red pilled. Fuck Peterson. I need to clean society before I clean my room

>>19561744
>this meme again
Oh look, men can literally make meat from a test tube. “Who needs wombs? Juicy steaks forever!”

>>19556824
This is /pol/ gestalt shitposting tier garbage made it into a book lmao and /lit/ is doing absolute shit job of refuting this compared to /pol/. Here’s a better thread recently posted.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/351105944/

>>19561248
Thanks anon. Very well put. Any books you could recommend to understand this better?

>>19561273
Based Indians figured this out millenia ago, huh?

>>19561314
Why are women so crazy about marriage then?

>>19557178
Read up about availability bias anon.

>>19556879
absolute cucked mindset. Imagine that being the first thought that pops into your head. sad

>>19557343
Accept Christ, little anon.

>>19560286
>we are essentially still animals

I honestly can't believe people think this. It might be the most fucking retarded common opinion. How the fuck are we animals. We have a Spirit. Why does nobody see this. We are not animals.

>>19559659
Why future tense? Tons of chinese man / african woman couples at the airport

>>19560286
>Men can at least improve their attractiveness through working out
>While for women, they are almost exclusively judged on their physical appearance
Women can't work out?

>>19561615
More focused on sexual pressure release than long-termmotivation that comes from having a family.
What happens when you treat symtoms instead of the illness?

>>19562579
Cazy about weddings.