/lit/ - Literature

All the arguments against this hack's works were voiced in the previous thread. The only people left are Bakker shills (totally not Bakker seething as he's been shown to do) and trolls having a kek at his expense.

>>19502066
men who fancy kiddy books general

>Come to /lit/ everyday.
>See Bakker everywhere.
B-based?

What does /lit/ think of R. Scott Bakker and his Second Apocalypse books? I read them a while ago and found them quite fascinating.

His books were heavily infused with philosophy, especially the first three books. I'm a total noob when it comes to philosophy, and many times I scratched my head and had to reread some passages, but it was invigorating and unique nonetheless. I don't think many books exist in the fantasy genre that are so heavy on philosophy.

The strongest point are the characters though, their trials and inner dialogue. I have seldom read a character as deep as Drusas Achamian (annoying as he might be from time to time).

The premise in itself is nothing that special, it's heavily borrowed from the crusades. Wiki explains it better than me:

"It depicts the story of the Holy War launched by the Inrithi kingdoms against the heathen Fanim of the south to recover the holy city of Shimeh for the faithful. During the war, a man named Anasûrimbor Kellhus emerges from obscurity to become an exceptionally powerful and influential figure, and it is discovered that the Consult, an alliance of forces united in their worship of the legendary No-God, a nihilistic force of destruction, are manipulating events to pave the way for the No-God's return to the mortal world." (spoilers after that)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Scott_Bakker

Have you read it and what do you think? I recommend it to anyone interested in fantasy, even if you are not that into philosophy.

pic: Faces on covers of fantasy books usually puts me off and I wouldn't even bother picking that book up, but in this case I'm glad I did. There are other covers though without face, this is the one I've got.

>>19502076
What a raging faggot. How could a grown ass man be that pathetic?

>>19502132
This looks so Reddit

>>19502132
Ok bakker lol

>>19502160
>Is this Bakker in the same room with use now?

>>19502132
>His books were heavily infused with philosophy, especially the first three books. I'm a total noob when it comes to philosophy, and many times I scratched my head and had to reread some passages, but it was invigorating and unique nonetheless.
This has to bait kek
>w-well youre talking about it aren't you??
What's sage?

Alright, I will try this shit.

Where do I start?

>>19502202
The Darkness That Comes Before by Richard Scott Bakker

>>19502093
Ok, but who asked?

Just posting to let you all know that the author is far leftist that’s been afflicted with TDS and not worth reading.

>>19502221
But at the same time leftist women hate his writing
>Noo! Don't read Bakker because I don't like him.

>>19502230
This review made me read him. And I did not regret it.

>>19502235
This review truly is the biggest selling point for the books.

>>19502221
>Orange Man Bad.
What a fag and its clear as day he never read Bandura. Disgusting.

>>19502279
No one likes Trump, chud.

This is a literature board

>>19502372
Ok, but who asked?

>>19502076
>>19502221
God damn, this guy is such a little bitch.

>>19502093
>All the arguments against this hack's works were voiced in the previous thread.
Post them here. I want to see them.

>>19502603
There were none. Just the usual ad-hominems.

>>19502235
The reason conservatives never get anything done is that they're purely reactionary. They wind up supporting cucks like Rowlign and Bakker, who have been cast aside as their assault on civilisation continues. You're feeding on the corpses the machine has left in its wake, and desperately hurrying along in the tire tracks, always heading in their direction. Please just go your own way.

>>19502638
We full schizo now.

>>19502646
The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, anon.

>>19502654
Not my problem.

>>19502659
Keep defending the people that hate you.

>>19502093
Now I really want you to post them if they’re samefagging this hard.

>>19502673
Didn't ask.

>>19502675
It's painfully repetitive most of the time and uses way too much space on establishing "cultural context" read: going for shock value, to the point it stops eliciting any sort of response. Most of characters are not made to be likeable, which is alright, but they are also not made to be interesting or sympathetic, which is awful.
>U-huh, another 1000000 people died in this gruelling tragedy. Again.
>U-huh, Esmeneth reminiscences about sucking dicks for nutrition. Again.
>U-huh, Conphas is engaging in his megalomaniacal antics. Again.
>U-huh, Serwe is being a dumb cunt. Again.
>U-huh, Cnaiur is ruminating on how insane he is. Again.
>U-huh, Akka is being a sad tormented bitch. Again.
>When was the last time plot was happening? Eight, nine chapters before?

The absolute most of it doesn't serve to establish anything at all. If you cut out all the filler of repetition and gay rape murder genocides, you'd be left with like, 30 pages worth of cool imagery and fancy ideas. But Bakker never learned to write interesting characters and interactions in order to expand those scraps into a proper series.

>>19502718
Do you have evidence for any of this?

>>19502745
He doesn't because it's false, for the most part.

>>19502748
Thanks. I thought as much.

>>19502675
Might as well add my critique.
>100 pages into first apocalypse book
>the love of one of pov character is literally selling her body while he watched her do so. she's standing on her balcony welcoming him back home, as she's fresh from the downdicking
>their big love story is actually pov character going after (but never finding) a sex customer that hurt the girl.
Dropped it after that and never looked back.

When people dis fantasy—mainstream readers and SF readers alike—they are almost always talking about one sub-genre of fantastic literature. They are talking about Tolkien, and Tolkien's innumerable heirs. Call it 'epic', or 'high', or 'genre' fantasy, this is what fantasy has come to mean. Which is misleading as well as unfortunate.

Tolkien is the wen on the arse of fantasy literature. His oeuvre is massive and contagious—you can't ignore it, so don't even try. The best you can do is consciously try to lance the boil. And there's a lot to dislike—his cod-Wagnerian pomposity, his boys-own-adventure glorying in war, his small-minded and reactionary love for hierarchical status-quos, his belief in absolute morality that blurs moral and political complexity. Tolkien's clichés—elves 'n' dwarfs 'n' magic rings—have spread like viruses. He wrote that the function of fantasy was 'consolation', thereby making it an article of policy that a fantasy writer should mollycoddle the reader.

That is a revolting idea, and one, thankfully, that plenty of fantasists have ignored. From the Surrealists through the pulps—via Mervyn Peake and Mikhael Bulgakov and Stefan Grabiński and Bruno Schulz and Michael Moorcock and M. John Harrison and I could go on—the best writers have used the fantastic aesthetic precisely to challenge, to alienate, to subvert and undermine expectations.

Of course I'm not saying that any fan of Tolkien is no friend of mine—that would cut my social circle considerably. Nor would I claim that it's impossible to write a good fantasy book with elves and dwarfs in it—Michael Swanwick's superb Iron Dragon's Daughter gives the lie to that. But given that the pleasure of fantasy is supposed to be in its limitless creativity, why not try to come up with some different themes, as well as unconventional monsters? Why not use fantasy to challenge social and aesthetic lies?

>>19502761
I bet that story hits too close to home.

Sorry, buddy. Not everyone can be a BVLL.

>>19502718
>>19502761
These critiques must have struck a nerve if they samefag this much. The books sound trite as hell.

>>19502773
That incel literally got triggered by a romance between a prostitute and one of the characters. I don't understand why people feel so compelled to live the characters like it's their own life. It's pathetic and childish. Which is ultimately why the genre has gone to shit.

>>19502787
Doesn’t help they have no argument

>>19502066
sure. why not? but can you name a good serious fantasy book? i cant. maybe its too difficult or unpopular

>>19502833
For me, it’s HP Lovecraft, he was at least inspired by American Romanticism and literary stuff.

>>19502833
The chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny.

>>19502904
lol

>>19502718
Sounds like shit. Don’t know how people can defend it let alone shill it.

Bakker is King.

Simple as.

>>19502638
i hate woman and i hate trump. bakker perfectly appeals to me.

>>19502235
Why can't chuds understand that no one likes reading about a weak and petty character? Imagine if all main characters were whiney bitches who just did nothing but get raped and complain. Would you be interested in reading that?

>>19502066
I tried to read his book but everything was about sex and whores and black sperm, bakker is a degenerate retard.

>>19503196
Sounds based.

The reason Bakker’s taking off is because the shills and the haters both make his books sound interesting with their low effort praise and scorn
Black nigga penis

>>19503237
Because it is.

>>19503196
>bakker is a degenerate retard
When she climaxed for the final time, she felt as though she’d been pitched from a precipice, and she heard her own husky shrikes as though from afar, shrill against the thunder and his dragon roar.

Then he withdrew and she felt ransacked, her limbs trembling, her skin numb and cold with sweat. Two of the candles were gutted, but the room was illuminated in grey light. How long?

The golden coin fluttered in his hand, bewitching her with its glitter. He held it above her and let it slip between his fingers. It plopped onto the sticky pools across her belly. She glanced down and gasped in horror.

His seed was black.

“Shush,” he said, gathering his finery. “Say a word of this to no one. Do you understand, whore?”

She stared at the coin and the Emperor’s profile across it, remote and golden against downy public hair and slopes of bare skin–skin threaded and smeared by glistening pitch.

Not only that, but Bakker lets his personal leftist politics manifested in his writings. Every single male character he writes is an absolute asshole, even the ones that aren't rapists. To Bakker, all masculinity is inherently toxic masculinity, the simple fact that all his male characters use the term "womanish" as an insult makes that blatantly obvious. In addition, he falls into the same trap that all leftists writers do and makes EVERYTHING about sex, about who is fucking who, who wants to fuck who, and all the bad guys just want to fuck everyone, because Americanized leftoids are obsessed with sex before everything else.

>Another Bakker Thread.
>They can't stop thinking about him.
>They can't stop writing about him.
>They can't stop posting about him.
>They can't stop seething about him.

Is this what "rent-free" means?

>>19503318
I wish they would just shut the fuck up already and go to their containment board. I see this guy's face every day now.

>>19503268
Kek, no wonder no one takes him seriously. This shit is so cringe.

>>19502718
>Cnaiur
>not interesting
wanna know how I know you didn't read it?

>>19503268
>Every single male character he writes is an absolute asshole
At least now we know you haven't read the books.

>>19503268
>Every single male character he writes is an absolute asshole
That’s just Bakker’s feminist ideals influencing the way he writes. Read his blog for more of this. Somebody already posted an excerpt >>19502235

>>19503268
>the simple fact that all his male characters use the term "womanish" as an insult makes that blatantly obvious
This flat out false.
Like >>19503349 said, you probably didn't even read the books, which leads me to believe that you got filtered somewhere along the first 100 pages. I don't know what drives you to make shit posts this elaborate, but it's just sad. And the fact that sex in a fantasy setting seem to upset you this much leads me to believe that you're just projecting some past abuse you've suffered. Unironically seek help.

>I only read authors that align with me politically.

Do chuds really?

>>19503377
Not him, but why should we care about an Author's blog and/or political views? Doesn't seem relevant his works in any way shape or form. I don't need any one's help to interpret what some one's written.

>>19503349
>>19503379
Don't feed the troll. It's abundantly clear that he's only using old copy pastas and controversial passages from some random Good Reads review or Booktuber. He hasn't read the books because he's been filtered as it is abundantly clear for everyone to see in this thread. I will never understand why Bakker filters retards this hard, but it's just the way things are, I guess.

You can't convince me that this isn't the greatest introduction to a fantasy world ever.

"One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten.
The citadel of Ishuäl succumbed during the height of the Apocalypse. But no army of inhuman Sranc had scaled its ramparts. No furnace-hearted dragon had pulled down its mighty gates. Ishuäl was the secret refuge of the Kûniüric High Kings, and no one, not even the No-God, could besiege a secret.
Months earlier, Anasûrimbor Ganrelka II, High King of Kûniüri, had fled to Ishuäl with the remnants of his household. From the walls, his sentries stared pensively across the dark forests below, their thoughts stricken by memories of burning cities and wailing multitudes. When the wind moaned, they gripped Ishuäl’s uncaring stone, reminded of Sranc horns. They traded breathless reassurances. Had they not eluded their pursuers? Were not the walls of Ishuäl strong? Where else might a man survive the end of the world?
The plague claimed the High King first, as was perhaps fitting: Ganrelka had only wept at Ishuäl, raged the way only an Emperor of nothing could rage. The following night the members of his household carried his bier down into the forests. They glimpsed the eyes of wolves reflected in the light of his pyre. They sang no dirges, intoned only a few numb prayers.
Before the morning winds could sweep his ashes skyward, the plague had struck two others: Ganrelka’s concubine and her daughter. As though pursuing his bloodline to its thinnest tincture, it assailed more and more members of his household. The sentries upon the walls became fewer, and though they still watched the mountainous horizon, they saw little. The cries of the dying crowded their thoughts with too much horror.
Soon even the sentries were no more. The five Knights of Trysë who’d rescued Ganrelka after the catastrophe on the Fields of Eleneöt lay motionless in their beds. The Grand Vizier, his golden robes stained bloody by his bowel, lay sprawled across his sorcerous texts. Ganrelka’s uncle, who’d led the heartbreaking assault on Golgotterath’s gates in the early days of the Apocalypse, hung from a rope in his chambers, slowly twisting in a draft. The Queen stared endlessly across festering sheets."

>>19502603
Not my critique but someone else. It would be a waste to no post it again.


The most telling moment for me was when I was finishing the series and my gf (female) asked me to tell her about it. So I went
>"Well there this guy from like a secluded materialist-Buddhist sect whose members are like living supercomputers who strive to free themselves from all emotional affection and trauma and become beings of pure reason, and he manipulates everybody in order to gain power."
>"And there are these wizards who gain awesome magical knowledge and also PTSD fixation from constantly reliving the life of an ancient wizard who saved the world from uberrape in their dreams."
>"And there are these like fantasy aliens who are like bipedal dinosaurs with human faces in their moths, who cannot distinguish between concepts of love and rape, and they want to kill basically everybody so that they can escape afterlife of eternal assbuggery, which is otherwise mandatory for everyone."
>"And there's like Christianity with apostolic authors, councils and history and shit, but sorta polytheistic, with numerous gods being aspects of Christian-like God, and those other Gods are definitely real and do shit all around"
>And there are elves but they are fucking insane and autistic.
>And there are some really badass Mongols, and one of them is really fucking insane and also a central character.

And that was about it. At this point I realized that I don't have anything more to tell, really. When she started asking about more specifics, I just opened the page in TTT, where Conphas remembers how he once masturbated using his imperial battle standard, showed her that and said that the rest of it is basically this.

>>19503428
How is that a critique? Are you retarded?

>>19503428
Sounds cringe.

>showed her that and said that the rest of it is basically this.
He should read some fantasy with authors that had literary merit. I recommend Poul Anderson, Zelazny, Vance, Tolkien, and Dunsany. Also, Lovecraft as one other anon noted.

>>19503414
Based.

>>19503414
If this is actually Bakker's prose, then whoever said in the other thread that it was shit is an idiot beyond salvation.

>>19502093
>The only people left are Bakker shills
It's obvious with how they samefag.

I'm so happy that we ruined /sffg/ for you. You have no idea how joyful it makes me to know that you go to bed seething about Bakker's existence.

>>19503455
It is. Here's another sample:

“Men, Kellhus had once told her, were like coins: they had two sides. Where one side of them saw, the other side of them was seen, and though all men were both at once, men could only truly know the side of themselves that saw and the side of others that was seen—they could only truly know the inner half of themselves and the outer half of others.
At first Esmenet thought this foolish. Was not the inner half the whole, what was only imperfectly apprehended by others? But Kellhus bid her to think of everything she’d witnessed in others. How many unwitting mistakes? How many flaws of character? Conceits couched in passing remarks. Fears posed as judgements …
The shortcomings of men—their limits—were written in the eyes of those who watched them. And this was why everyone seemed so desperate to secure the good opinion of others—why everyone played the mummer. They knew without knowing that what they saw of themselves was only half of who they were. And they were desperate to be whole.
The measure of wisdom, Kellhus had said, was found in the distance between these two selves.
Only afterward had she thought of Kellhus in these terms. With a kind of surpriseless shock, she realized that not once—not once!—had she glimpsed shortcomings in his words or actions. And this, she understood, was why he seemed limitless, like the ground, which extended from the small circle about her feet to the great circle about the sky. He had become her horizon.
For Kellhus, there was no distance between seeing and being seen. He alone was whole. And what was more, he somehow stood from without and saw from within. He made whole …”

>>19503414
>no army of inhuman Sranc
stopped reading right there and started laughing

that's what i get for giving genre shit the time of day: a good chuckle.

>>19503497
>is that a new word i don't recognize?? ahhhh im going insane!11111

>>19503478

>77 post
>27 Ip
There’s a lot of samefagging going on here.

>>19503527
>on average 3 posts per person
this is above average.

>open Bakker
>THE VERY GROUND REEKS OF CUNNY
>close Bakker
So this is what you call "serious literature?"

>>19503551
What is serious literature?

>>19503551
>So this is what you call "serious literature?"
No one calls it serious literature. It's just children's fiction.

>>19502207
That cover

KINO

SOVL

>>19502638
I was trying to make sense of your post, but then I realized that you're just another retard.

>>19503131
Bakker is a feminist, though.

>>19503551
>Fantasy Author
>Uses Cunny
And then why wonder why they aren’t taken seriously.

>>19503455
honestly i felt like tdtcb intro was written differently than the entire rest of the series

>>19503771
he used cunny once
99% of the time its peach

>>19503783
mmmmmhmm, bruised peach

>>19502066
>http://www.heliotropemag.com/Issue01/pdf/Heliotrope_pg32-38_SkepticalFantasist.pdf
Is this thing a trannie? He writes like one of those women’s blog.

>>19502066
I think a lot of books that are fantasy can be seen as of literary merit. Homer's Odyssey for instance, Beowulf, Gawain and the Green Knight would all be classed as fantasy if they came out today. I also think that Professor Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy is an interesting reworking of post-war emotions into the framework of that old mythological tradition, and that though the literary fairy tales of Hans Christian Andersen might be for children they still have merit as artistic work that makes beautiful use of language.
That being said, what I have seen of this writer makes him seem petty and desperate to be taken seriously.

>>19503446
Glad someone mentioned Dunsany. I met a lot of Lovecraft and Tolkien appreciators but not enough of their unofficial mentor

>>19504012
He puts me off. He writes like he is trying to sound academical and wise.

>>19503455
its bad, just because it's readable doesn't mean it isn't also bad

>>19504292
>He writes like he is trying to sound academical and wise.
The first two paragraphs are just him bitching and whining.

>I was crossing campus not so long ago and I happened to bump into one of my old professors.She greeted me with a warm smile and congratulated me on my success writing children’s fiction. After swearing under my breath, I explained to her that I wrote epic fantasy, and that if anything, it was as adult as adult could be. The idea, I told her, was that in today’s electronically balkanized society, genre was the only place where it was possible to
write ‘literature.’


>She did not look convinced. But then I’ve been to several literary festivals now, and I have a pretty good sense of just how deep the pigeon-hole goes. We humans have three pound brains, and we live in a universe so big that we regularly see starlight older than our species. We are overmatched. As a result, we tend to economize by packing our terms with implicit judgements. In literary circles, ‘epic fantasy’ has all the cache of ‘bag lady’ or ‘redneck’ or even worse, ‘corporation.'

>>19504410
Yeah, that's what I mean by tries. He uses long academic words to hide the fact that he is complaining. The whole "redneck" thing doesn't paint a good picture of him either. I don't think rednecks are bad

>>19504661
they are bad though

>>19503414
LMAOOOO

>>19503414
Read more books.

>>19503771
>anime
No one takes your posts seriously either.

>>19504295
No an argument.

>>19502066
I agree with him, but at the same time, any intelligent defense of genre fiction has to begin by acknowledging that a large amount of it is quite bad, and that a large amount of fantasy fans really are only looking for escapism. But I agree with everything he says, even if I might state it in different terms. It's prima facie absurd to say that fantasy has no relevance to the real world, simply because it is not set in the real world. And the people who degrade speculative fiction in the way he's talking about generally are buying into a simple-minded distinction between "good literature" and "bad pulp" that's more about market categorization and social positioning than anything else.

And R Scott Bakker has made a pretty good career of writing fantasy novels that are pretty mature and actually deal with human themes, so I guess he's a good person to be talking about this.

>>19505257
An effort post that I actually read and liked.

Go home, Bakker.

>>19505899
I never left.

>>19503414
This is a meme right? No way a published author would throw around that many ridiculous sounding name in the first lines.

>>19506077
There’s a reason why he got poor sales and was drop from his publisher.

>>19506097
All his books got released?

It’s not like Malazan doesnt do the exact same name dropping. I realise how hard it must be for you when there are things in the book not immediately explained.

>>19503414
Reads like shit.

>>19506167
Unformatted in 4chan yes, or you are just dyslexic.

>>19503414
Why don't you read more books before you out yourself as an illiterate retard?

>>19506097
No, not really.

>>19506077
I thought /lit/ was a high IQ board. You guys can't keep up with a bit of fantasy jargon?

>>19503414
I like the opening line, but the rest falls off for me. He's abusing adjectives and the pauses/commas in his sentences interrupt the flow. Everyones a critic, but I can understand the appeal.

>>19506077

>>19506077
No my problem you're low IQ.

>>19502235
I think I’m turning a corner on this guy.

>>19506386
>Imagine not being able to follow the biggest memes in fantasy.
It's like you hate fun.

>>19506253
This. It’s always hilarious when children try to peddle their books as next big thing

>>19502066
Has anyone read 'Hollow' by Brian p. Catling?

>>19502235
So, the people claiming that this guy is left wing are just shit-posters, right?

>>19506411
No, he’s a leftist/progressive.

>>19506411
What do you think, Scherlock?

>>19506411
He's probably a classical liberal.

>>19506411
he's more of a 1998 democrat than a leftist in terms of beliefs , but his books are very "redpilled"

>>19506411
he is left wing with trump derangement syndrome, bakkerfag

>>19506411
His books aren't about politics, it's a grimdark medieval fantasy, feminists got mad because the female characters in the first 3 books don't do much other than getting dicked.

>>19506438
>>19506443
I thought as much. I might actually give it ago. Not that I care about anyone's political views when I pick up a book, as long as those same views aren't blatant in the narrative.

>>19506429
I think there's a lot of people who dislike him for some reason, and I'm betting that it's the woke crowd false flagging.

>>19506411
He has Trump Derangement Syndrome and he’s a leftist/progressive if you check his blog. He also fancies himself as a male feminist

>>19506448
>>19506467
Good. I don't like Trump, I'm not an incel.

>>19506495
You will never be a woman.

>>19506661
Does it trouble you?

What is it about Bakker that makes one really good at shitposting?

>>19503414
>greatest introduction to a fantasy
What is it with children always making the most absurdist claims about their favorite kiddie fiction?

>>19506862
Name a better introduction. You can't. Don't bother.

>>19503414
God damn. I didn't think that Bakker was this good.

>>19503414
This is terrible. Neck yourself.

>>19506393
It comes Im coming around to him lad

>>19506975
Nah, you're just jealous.

>>19506393
>That review

I'm reading bakker for escapism and no other purpose in mind, but if it satisfyingly imparts something deeper, that's like a bonus. There being so much effort put into it and the author having written something with the intent that it be taken seriously only enriches the experience of escape. It's a good mix. Clearly bakker was always a d&d nerd and it shows, but that's where the innocent fun comes in, balanced by his ego-need to be taken seriously and to suppress the geeky side. He's striking a middle ground.

>>19503072
This.

>>19503414
I hate shit like this. Too many writers shit out masturbatory prose instead of actually telling an interesting story.
>inb4 but muuh immersion

>>19508636
t.proselet

>>19503414
Fuck, I'm going to have to actually read this now. All the lore sounds fucking gnarly.

>>19508658
Same. I just the first three books. I hope I don't regret it.

>>19508664
purchased*

>>19506411
That's my take. Never read his blog. Sounds cringe at times but why the fuck do I care? Plenty of better writers, including all time greats, were cringe. You don't think Petrarch with his political lefty rants for control by the HRE and pining after Laura was ever cringe?

>>19502221
That's not even a post about Trump you mong. I swear folks like (also (you)) >>19506448 are so fucking fragile that if anyone mentions your precious God Emperor in anything but glowing terms you cryfag unbearably. It's not even about Trump. And even if you like the guy, the best things about him is that he does just spam ad hominem. He's never been a serious policy guy or debater. He made it big on shitting on elites in ways people wish they could and breaking all the rules. That's the best thing about him.

>>19502221
He’s also believes in women.

>>19508896
TL;DR.

>>19508944
>My money is on Ford, not simply because I found her testimony compelling, but because her story implicates someone doomed to corroborate Kavanaugh-not the kind of detail you would expect to find in a partisan hit job.
>Uses Victim Blaming unironically
>Muh evil republicans

>>19508989
Still didn't read.

>>19508989
>>My money is on Ford, not simply because I found her testimony compelling
Stopped reading here. He’s a retard. Nothing more needs to be said.

>>19508993
>>19508944
Based.

Is Gavriel Kay any good? I love the byzantine empire and Tang era China, but his premise seems kinda hacky.

>>19509194
>Is Gavriel Kay any good?
Pretty much. Only modern fantasy author that writes serious literature.

>>19503488
Kek, this shit better be bait.

>>19505174
Cope

>>19506173
No, no, it is really awful

>>19506411
>>19502230
>>19502235


I have read just the first book and irrespectively of the whole quality of the series. Barker strikes me as the archetypical nerd male feminist that veils his misogynism through metaphors.

Your average mysoginist wouldn't just go out of his way to display women getting humiliated as whores and/or raped. Especially in fantasy or historical settings he would just display women as being in an ingerior social role, stuck in the household and with no political power. This is most of human history.

But Barker ironically by trying to go out of his way to be super based philosophically minded fantasy author just completely boggles it up, assuming that if men had the ability to project their faith actualy in the world , the world would be 100x times worse in terms of misogyny.

Some parts felt to me as a genuine hack job to portay monotheistic religions like Christianity and Islam to the point of parody. Early Christianity would not have grown to the social movement it became without women spreading it, who were teh majority of early christians. Even later christianity placed tremendous importance on womens spirituality with nuns, the cult of the Virgin Mary etc.

>>19510469
Barker?

>>19506077
I haven't read Bakker's books yet, but why is this sentiment so common? Even on /a/ or /tv/ people will complain when a plot point or character is introduced and the viewer isn't immediately told what their purpose is or who they are. Is it really that hard to retain information like names and events that aren't perfectly clear?

>>19510939
So much this. Exposition is important but something has to be left for the reader as well to find out and deduce.

>>19509005
Listening to some women describe being attacked should be compelling, regardless of whether it's true or she's a good actor.

It's just that /pol/ can laugh with callous indifference because their masters have told them to be outraged. Donald Trump is a codefendant for the rape of a minor with Jeffery Epstein, with three witnesses signing affidavits? Fake! Conspiracy!

You'll see endless threads about some crime involving Blacks, but if someone of Tucker or Trump's pedigree actually gets caught and convicted of four forcible rapes of minors, and the here zero jail time because he is an elite, pic related, it will slide to the bottom of the catalog every time with no replies.

Why? Because /pol/ are cuckolds. They gag on the dicks of their chosen elites. No wall got built, the GOP had both chambers of Congress for Trump for 24 months and didn't hold one vote on migration. Trump never tried to force them. It's because they want migration, they want wages low and rents high. Diversity reduces unionization risk.

So they can do nothing, except for a giant tax cut going almost all too elites, fully funded by debt instead of cuts so that really what they did was cut taxes on the rich and raise them on everyone else for future years, and no outcry, just love.

It's cuckoldry through and through. Tucker poses as a "man's man," but is an heir who has never worked a real job in his live. But he'll play tough guy on TV and /pol/ would spread their boipussy for him any day. Even when these elites get tagged with child rape they defend them.

Other more serious speculative fiction?

Obviously there is 1984 and Brave New World.

I'm only at the start of The Three Body Problem, but it seems like it might be more serious.

The Sparrow is also taught in seminaries and is more serious sci-fi. Hyperion is much more literary than your average genre fiction, but IDK if it really fits the bill.

>>19511048
It doesn't even have to ambiguous enough to warrant audience deduction, it could even be something that is just outright revealed later on. But if they don't know the truth with perfect clarity the moment something is introduced, it's like their brain shuts down. A standard mystery novel would probably hospitalize them.
That brings me to another point is that a lot of posters(more so on /a/ than anywhere else) really dislike when characters lie to the POV characters. I can't even count how many times i've seen people decry "plot hole!" and "retcon!" whenever 'X' happened, but an untrustworthy/unreliable character claimed 'Y' occurred instead.

>>19511274
Based

>>19510118
I accept your concession.

>>19511213
I'm not totally sure what you mean b y "speculative fiction" but I think A Canticle for Leibowtiz is right up your alley. I think gun to my head it's my favorite book.

>>19511100
Cope. Bakker is a retard.

>>19511100
At what point do you stop and think maybe defending some Canadian cuck is just a bad idea?

>>19511470
>>19511426
Cringe

>>19511426
Nice argument.

>>19503414
Imagine reading kiddie fiction and thinking this is great. Kill yourself, it would make /lit/ a much better place.

>>19511612
>Cringe

>>19503414
So, the rumors are true? /lit/ doesn’t read? Because I don’t know how this can be considered good.