/lit/ - Literature

No one on /wg/ writes.

>>19495612
That's a lie, I am clearly writing about rape.

>rape
If you want to make it as a romance novelist this is your bread and butter. Women's number one fantasy. With a hunky guy that sweeps them off their feet and blows past their resistance, of course. Not the real deal.

>>19495609
Can we get the rape story

So how did you fellows do for nanowrimo?

>>19495700
Very good fellow nanowrimo

Repost

Hey /lit/, I need some tips for a total beginner. I'm not huge into writing but I'm making this video game that's divided into 4 chapters and some side quests and I'd like to have some tips on writing these chapters.
The setting is realistic and its scope is pretty small. It's about japanese Yankees fighting for the school's control, to be the strongest or whatever, à la Crow Zero or Shonan Junai Gumi, etc.
I'd like to aboard some realistic common themes on growing up in a disfunctionnal modern environment as man. So I'd like to use several themes such as self-confidence, violence (obviously), bullying, dysfunctional families (resigning/violent/addicted/criminal parents), the school system and its unfairness to whoever doesn't fit into it, the true meaning of being an alpha (wich is totally the opposite of its current meaning imo), friendship, trahison, ambitions when you're born in poverty, etc.

I know it feels like a lot (especially since I didn't write all the the themes I want to talk about) but I have some personal stuff to say about all these (not only from my personal experience but from the people that are around me too).
I'd just like to have some tips on:
- Tying all this together into a big stories wich is divided into 4 chapters
- Advise me like a workflow for writing. I've never done this so I have literaly no idea how the writing process looks like. Everybody must have its own way of doing it I guess but since it has never been a hobby of mine, I need tips on the most basic stuff.
- I also need to reuse a lot of the same locations since it's a game with a small scope. The city is bound to be small and not like the huge recent openworlds. Any advises on that?
- Same for writing dialogues. I have these funny quotes from the discussions with my friends and all (I write down the very funny stuff or stories we say sometimes).

That's all that's coming to my mind for the moment. Any video game specifics are also welcome of course.

>>19495720
have you tried reading actual fucking books?

>>19495792
It's like asking an anon here to actually write.

>>19495792
Yeah anon because when you read a book or watch a movie, it automatically makes you a writer or a realisator
>>19495795
I fear it's even more stupid than that

>>19495827
surely not reading any books at all will make you a great writer.

>>19495720
>It's about japanese Yankees fighting for the school's contro
>japanese Yankees
I don't know what the fuck that is supposed to mean, but it sounds like you have a character driven narrative. Figure out your MC, get a basic, basic gist of who he is and what his immediate goals are, and then bounce him off some other characters.
>workflow for writing
you just write.

Reposting a thread because I should've asked it here in the first place
What are some good texts for someone looking to study (and eventually produce) erotic prose? I've had a look through the sticky's recommendations on classical and erotic literature as a place to start but I'm wondering if there's anything tailored to what I'm looking for.

>>19495865
They're pretty much juvenile delinquents from the 80's/90's except that they created this whole aesthetic in Japan that's still popular and used today in a lot of fictions.
> you just write
Okay but between writing events and linking them together and writing from the begining and just go for it until you reach then end and polish the chunk of text. Wich way is the most efficient ? That's the kind of basic thing I want to know

>>19495700
I don't do "nanohomo" I don't need a special month to write.

>>19495942
>writing from the begining and just go for it until you reach then end and polish the chunk of text
this is what I do.
If I have a vision of a scene way in the future that I feel I have to absolutely write right now I'll have a separate document where I put it. Sometimes the plot deviates and those are never used, but usually parts are cannibalized. Get your 1st draft down. That's the most important thing to do. You will spend much, much more time editing it than getting it out. I promise you that.

>>19495700
I bet Jason Bryan that I would buy his book if I didn't finish, thinking I only had 2 hours left to pad a complete narrative with 5000 words. Turns out that was November 29th. I was so happy when I woke up the next morning and saw that I still had one more day and only 3000 words to go.

So I finished, and the manuscript needs a lot of work, but a month ago it was just an idea. I remember when I was 15 years old, thinking I was already making exceptional progress in my writing career. I was the rockstar of AP english, I had a blog, I "revised" my stories before I posted them, and when I first stumbled across the concept of nanowrimo, I was like "No halfway decent author would want to write a novella in 30 days"

But fifteen years later I've learned that the best idea in your mind is nothing compared to the worst manuscript you've ever written. Nanowrimo is not the path to writing success, but it is a path to a manuscript. It was fun and a refreshing break, but now its back to work on my serious projects.

>>19495700
I wrote a 2-parter chapter that was about 14k words and needless to say it was like an intense sucker-punch that drained my entire will to write for the rest of November. Only had about 7k written during the month.

I never really intended to do Nanowrimo since the concept of it is yearly and indefinite for me as a serial writer anyway.

I emailed a small "known" author (writing degree from a famous school, published a lot, a couple famous awards) in my country today about how to make it as a writer. I liked her work and she's just a 3-4 years older than me so I figured id ask her for advice

god I'm so desperate for any fucking guidance on how to make it as a writer. I wish corona didn't happen so I could find a legit writing circle in my city

>list of /wg/ authors pastebin
https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
If you want to be on this list then reply to this post with the site you posted your novel on and your pen name.

>>19496102
>All animefags
They really are the only writers here.

>write a novel
>don't exactly make a self insert, but use a lot of my anxieties/insecurities to try and make the characters more realistic
>the main male character is kind of spineless, can't stand up for himself even when he's being shit on, can't talk to women at all
>send it to a beta reader on fiverr for critique
>she totally rips it apart, tells me the main guy is unrealistically pathetic, also a creepy weirdo for harboring a crush for years
>get so enraged I send her a mini-rant telling her she bruised my ego and made me feel like shit
>she blocked me afterwards
Not my proudest moment, but I'm almost done with my 2nd draft. For a while, I considered dropping it forever.

>>19495926
anais nin

>>19496092
>buy can of spraytan
>get a zoomer mulatto perm
>pick an ethnic penname
>???
>profit

Chapter 59 released.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
>>19496109
Seems to be how it is. The act of writing sparks joy.

>>19496092
>god I'm so desperate for any fucking guidance on how to make it as a writer
Have you written anything? That's sort of the first step.

>>19496230
adding to this, what does anon even mean by "making it". if you want to be wealthy this is the worst way to go about it. most writers work a day job.
if you dont enjoy writing, dont bother. if you enjoy writing, write, and you will have manuscripts completed eventually.

>>19496250
Not that anon but I have written and do enjoy it the problem is a day or two passes and I look at what I have put to paper and it's very hard to resist the urge to destroy it all.

>>19496277
what makes you want to destroy it?

Is sending an Amazon author copy of my book to a publisher a good way to stick out?

>>19496277
read more books and learn how to edit

>>19496452
why would a publisher be interested in a book you have already published?

>>19496633
I still own the rights and can publish elsewhere

>>19496686
Of course. Why would a publisher be interested? Have you sold a hundred thousand copies or something?

>>19496740
No but I don't have a marketing campaign either

>>19495677
No, as I have not published it and unlikely ever will. It's just sort of on my Webnovel account, just lying there.

>>19496277
>it's very hard to resist the urge to destroy it all
If it makes you feel better, Joyce threw his manuscript of A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man into a fire.

Daily 2k is now done on top of 5k for my Rape Story! Once again, a very productive day.

>>19496633
this. read this multiple times on agents' sites/blogs.
>>19496452
no anon.
>>19496740
>>19496751
definitely no.

>>19496830
How extreme do you get with the rape? Full on sadism or are you more involved in the romance or emotion side of the rape? I’m also writing a rape story so I’m interested.

>>19495926
The story of the eye is all you need

>>19496092
Just write lol

>>19495609
I hated "Hero With a Thousand Faces" and Campbell with his pompous, oh so fucking eloquent platitudes.

That is all.

>>19496939
>The story of the eye
that was a fun google

I've had a few ideas for stories that I find interesting(the characters and the conflict between them), but sexual situations are a critical part of them and i hate knowing that perverts will read them and jerk off to it.

Also, for those who desire a more Victorian society, who do you deal with having ideas that your ideal society would shun?

>>19497227
>i hate knowing that perverts will read them and jerk off to it
Why?

>>19496979
I mentioned a couple months ago that 1K Faces is written from an anthropology perspective, I think it can be misleading to have in the links, personally. Taking it as story structure doesn't work if you use it as a checklist. It's more important to understand the utility of thresholds, mentors and why they appeal to us.

>>19497244
Because fuck em, that's why. When you write a story about a woman blackmailing a man into sex, which is a form of rape(not to be some faggy autistic screeching liberal about it), you dont like knowing some pathetic bitch boi is out there getting his rocks off to it

>>19497227
i only write wholesome loving superstraight sex between dedicated lovers.

>>19497266
But there are broken people in this world, and those are the kinds of characters that my muse seems to dredge up from whenever ideas come from.

>>19497260
I wouldn't really care. People can jerk off to anything these days.

Question: how much do you guys value the quality of prose versus the quality of plot and whatever else the writing might provide (laughs, philosophical insight, etc)?
Pic related to prove I'm not some pseud who comes in here and posts stupid questions for his fanfiction, I'm at least on the level of amazon self-publisher.

>>19497357
Plot comes first for me, but prose is important for the emphasis, clarity, flow and emotion that give more weight to the plot.

>>19497357
Story is king, but there is something to be said about how something is written too. In my opinion, Donna Tartt makes up for what she lacks in story with how it's written and how that style makes you feel. The Secrect History is kind of sucks after the first third, but I still want to live in those words.

This is actually something I've been wanting to dig into but haven't quiet found a way to pull style apart like that. I know how to craft a solid story with interesting characters, but my prose is so simplistic and "basic." I want to know how to give my writing the feeling that Jane Eyre gives me. That feeling of sitting in front of a fire on a ripping winter night wrapped up in a fluffy blanket.

>>19497292
Maybe I'm just getting that typical artistic ego some creators get. "You like it for tue wrong reasons," and all that.

>>19497260
>When you write a story about a woman blackmailing a man into sex, which is a form of rape
Hot. So what happens next? Don't leave me hanging.

>>19497279
>my muse
No, you just need to find Jesus.
>>19497357
I expect both.

>>19497438
Now, now, Anon, that would be telling.

>>19497445
>find Jesus
Even Jesus will tell you there are damaged and broken people out there.

>>19497357
Interesting question.

Unsure if /lit/ has already done this…but how would you populate pic telated?

>>19497531
That deserves it's own thread

>>19497531
Prose and plot has so many aspects to it that rating either on a 1-10 scale seems extremely arbitrary.

>>19497576
You must be really fun at parties.

>>19497474
but not that you have to coom to them.

>>19497357
prose needs to be serviceable and plot needs to be good.
thus plot is more important than prose but both have to achieve some minimum standard in order for the story to actually be good.

There are exceptions, but they are rare. The example that immediately comes to mind of phenomenal prose and completely nonsensical plot is Swift's Tale of a Tub.
>b-but its supposed to be nonsensical, that's the joke
right. I agree. it is very much an exception

How do you deal with the fact everything's been done?

My story has an old master trope and while it's ultimately a small part I still tried to make it original and memorable, before going through the list of all possible twists and takes on the trope and realizing all of them have been done already.

>>19497613
I don't. I'm just annoyed others will.

>>19497655
People have been telling the same stories for thousands of years. We change them, modernize them for our own time, but they're still the same. Each generation needs to retell them in their own way for their own reasons.

>>19497655
I shrug it off and write.

>>19497655
>old master trope
>trope
That is just a fact of life. Experience is valuable. That would be like saying this story has a woman gets pregnant and gives birth trope. No. That's life. Men physically cannot get pregnant, they lack the requisite plumbing.
>inb4 some deluded troon tries to gainsay me
kys you mentally ill fuck

>>19497590
What? I'm just saying.

>>19497616
I'm curious though how these requirements change in terms of publishing agents - they typically only read the first 5 pages, if that, so do you need to "wow" them with your prose or make sure your plot is juicy in the first page?

>>19497715
No I'm saying a stern wise old master has been done, a silly yet secretly strong master has been done, a drunk master, pervert master, animal master, young, female, careless, passionate, hobby-centered etc all possible original takes have been done

>>19497734
So ducking what? Originality is a false god. Write a good story and block out all the other noise.

>>19497357
F Gardner doesn't write incomprehensible gibberish but no matter how interesting his books sound, I can't even finish the free samples. So I guess my opinion is that if you were a decent writer, you wouldn't waste good prose on a boring idea and you wouldn't spoil a good idea with bad prose. And I'm not going to stop and ask "well, is it the prose or the plot that's putting me off?" before I decide not to finish it. As a consumer its not a question, and as a writer I don't allow one area to suffer in the hopes that people will be dazzled by the other.

>>19497734
>this has been done
>that has been done
>etc etc
So what?
>I tried to make it original and memorable
It doesn't have to be original in order to be memorable. Matter of fact making it less original may in fact make it more memorable. There is nothing wrong with having an old master who has a picture of his dead wife on the mantle. Nothing wrong with that at all. Your problem is that you are viewing the world in terms of tropes, instead of the message you want to get across with your writing.

>>19497734
What he has to teach is important too. If he teaches it in a way that's unique, or bring some insight that isn't just reciting truisms, it could be fresh.

>>19497761
So you're saying both needs to be at a certain level to begin with. But once you reach that level, would you rather have better prose or better plot? Probably plot, right?

>>19496890
>read this multiple times on agents' sites/blogs.
what do you mean?

FYI if self-publishing for the first time, make your e-book $.99 at the beginning...

Here's a beginning excerpt of something I wrote today as practice. I don't think it reads very well; its kind of shit desu, but no one else posts anything. I'm not werhfaggot, I just like the Eastern Front. (Forgotten Soldier is a very good book I enjoyed it immensely)


Clods of black dirt exploded as machinegun fire swept over the field. Mortar bombs blew fat craters in the dead and shaven grass, and gunshots, like whipped cracks, thundered overhead as three land-leased Spitfires dropped Hell on the German infantry below.

Moritz held his shaking hands on the man's neck. He pressed down palm flat and closed his eyes. He could feel the warm blood leak between his fingers. The dying man was saying something, but he couldn't understand him. Everywhere in the trench line, men yelled or screamed, and some ran past, carrying belts of ammunition or crates, cursing with their faces smeared in gun grease.

"Shoot me," the man whispered.

"What?" Moritz leaned in and turned his head so that the man could whisper in his ear.

"Shoot me goddammit!" the man hissed, spitting. "I don't want you to be the last sorry thing I see." His skin was drained of color, and the whites in his eyeballs were blood clogged. He murmured something, looking away at the ground. He breathed in, shook, and then he closed his eyes.

Overhead, a volley of twenty millimeter Hispano bullets chewed into the soil. Everyman dove or slumped to the ground as the strafing run passed by. When Moritz lifted his head up again, he looked towards the man and saw that he wasn't breathing anymore. His body was stiff and when Moritz lifted his caked fingers, no more blood shot out from the gaping tear in his nape.

>>19497655
>implying

>>19497780
Well, its definitely plot that's going to even get me to open your book in the first place. Its impossible to compare the two in terms of pulling power. I can not think of a single book that I have sought out because I heard the prose was really good, although I have taken a chance on certain classics that sounded profoundly dull, and have been pleasantly surprised that the author was able to keep me entertained, but those classics must have a shitload of momentum backing them to even enter into my consciousness. Ethan Frome would be a really good example of something which sounded dull but was written in an entertaining fashion, precisely because the prose was in harmony with the atmosphere which the author was trying to depict. But if I really wanted that kind of experience, I would listen to a song.

I mean, have you ever tried to recommend a movie based on the quality of the camera work? Try to imagine the scenario in which the objective experience of sitting in a room noting the clever usage of assonance in a given passage trumps the pleasure of not caring because you're too curious about what is about to happen next. Because you're asking in terms of genre fiction profit, one of these factors is almost invisible.

That being said, the prose of your excerpt is competent on a grammatical level and flows quite nicely on a sentence level. The main issue is that you cut away from the immediate opening to launch into a vague monologue about graphs and then by the time you got around to providing details about the setting and people in it, I had assumed you weren't going to and had imagined that Abraham lived alone in a cool cyberpunk apartment in some kind of lawless zone, and then Zhao hit the scene and forced me to go back to the beginning and re-evaluate. Specifically the past perfect phrase in his introduction spoiled the image I had of Abraham as a lone wolf cyberpunk hacker. Had he entered the scene via opening a door, it wouldn't have disrupted my previous mental image, it would have merely built on.

A good analogy: imagine the opening scene of A New Hope. We get a quick info-dump in the text scroll and then we move into the action: a huge ship looms on screen, followed by another ship which dwarfs the first. Shots are fired, the smaller ship is disabled and boarded. But imagine this process has been rearranged and the infodump also incidentally contradicted whatever mental image you had formed a minute ago. That's how yours comes across. Are you Zak Winters by any chance?

I cannot stand writing dialogue holy shit.

>>19498061
Makes sense. I think I need to start the book with a scene between characters so I can force myself to stay away from monologues, since a monologue that tries to be meaningful and also introduces the world is a bit complex. Seems I jump from topic to topic too much, and without too much of a coherent flow.

You can't always force everyone to have the same mental image though, right? Sometimes there will be misconceptions that will get cleared up later. I could probably do better though in expressing that Abraham is some kind of depressed, middle aged man with a three-o-clock shadow and few redeeming qualities through my analogies though, you're right. Having him watch graphs is something I imagine would be uncommon for his stereotype, and in the beginning of a book information density is important.

>>19498076
dialogue is my favorite part all my characters get to come alive

>>19498076
I agree, it is difficult to act out your character

5,000 words yesterday, so far 1,000 today, going to try and get to 3,000.
>>19498076
I'm alright with dialogue, but what I actually enjoy is scenery description. My stories have a lot of travel elements and I like setting the atmosphere for different cities and areas. I have a lot of /out/ experience which helps me write vividly.
What I really hate is clothing description because I just don't care. This isn't set in the contemporary west so I need it to some degree.

I'd write like Tolkien if I thought it could still get published.

>>19498061
>I mean, have you ever tried to recommend a movie based on the quality of the camera work?
Pretty sure every mention of 1917 fits that description.

>>19498240
How do you write 5k on a day.
Fuck...

>>19497357
Everyone is underselling prose. Most writers can come up with a serviceable story, but fall flat with their prose. This is why most books are shit: they fail at presentation.

>>19498061
>mean, have you ever tried to recommend a movie based on the quality of the camera work?
Yes. Quality direction + lackluster/stupid stories >>> Bad direction + good story

>>19498294
writing for 7 hours (with breaks)
ganbatte

>>19495700
I didn't do the challenge, but I finished a 70k book I started in October.

>>19498108
>You can't always force everyone to have the same mental image though, right?
Definitely not, but I'm just gonna say that in this particular instance, your prose killed my interest before the plot did. When Zhao entered the scene, I became confused before you had even introduced the idea of psionics. Aside from that, it seems solid, though. Opening line is very intriguing.

Can I get some feedback on my piece? Our goals are aligned, I'm trying to hit the note of "invisible prose" for the KDP market. Much like yours, there is a shitload of information that needs to come out very quickly without losing the reader's attention.
https://ghostbin.com/PP9uD

made 22 cents in sales today

>>19498294
I write that much on 4chan every day, especially when I don't masturbate. Get good.

>>19498407
I feel like the starting paragraph was a forced, like, first X. second, Y. third, Z. That along with the rhetorical questions just made it awkward to read - if you had just done it once, I think it'd be fine.
Vibrant red hair, stood out as cliche. If not for that DAMN vibrant red hair. Double cliche.
"squinting at me in confusion", should tell less.

>My LRDV had slowed to twenty kilos an hour for the bend; if she’d started six seconds sooner she might have caught me. I watched as she began to fade into the distance. No need to file a complaint. No doubt they’d had their big adventure and now they’d give up their dreams of banditry. Could hardly blame them for wanting a little extra from life.
Now this is a lot more what I'd like. I'm don't read much of this "casual tone" but I like it. Only line I think would need work is "No doubt they’d had their big adventure and now they’d give up their dreams of banditry". "Give up dreams of banditry" sounds off-key to me.

>floor-to-ceiling plexiglass windshield
No need to use this many words, get rid of "floor-to-ceiling". Maybe even windshield too.
>He had grabbed the assault rifle from behind the moss-covered remains of the old bus stop where they’d staged their little performance, and was now waving it haphazardly at me with one arm while he struggled to hold his pants up with the other hand
Awkward due to length. Make it flow better or separate it.
I'd read more but I'm lazy and tired.

But yeah, a lot easier to critique someone else than to make your own work good. Hope what I wrote helped.

>>19498423
Good work Jason!

I'm so fucking angry.
>happily working on novel, typing away
>suddenly keyboard stops working in the middle of a word
>won't work in write, won't work in browser, nothing
>no choice but to restart computer
>had to close out of 200 tabs i will never find again
>had 8 pdfs open for reference material, have to go reopen all of them
>lost the album i was listening to
>lost what page of a manga i had open
>now have everything rebooted but am in a terrible mood
FUCK YOU WINDOWS

>>19498447
>I'm don't read much of this "casual tone" but I like it.
Interesting, I assumed because it was easy to write then it must naturally be annoying to read. There are several long sections like that, so its good that you liked it. I'm disappointed that my opening paragraph didn't have the effect I wanted, which was like "woah this guy knows exactly what a real rape looks like and doesn't give a shit that he's being chased by armed teenagers, this place must be pretty fucked up"

Obviously the prose could be improved, but I'm mostly just curious if you were like "wait wtf?" at any point, for reasons which were not cleared up in the next sentence. I guess a good example would be the MiniCon. I don't come right out and explain it, but I hope the word "refill" gave the impression that it was somewhat like a vending machine, right? And the suffix "Mini" clearly implies the existence that this is clearly a much smaller version of something else, right?

>>19498525
>had to close out of 200 tabs i will never find again
Nigga what, restoring closed tabs is one click away

Anyone else in awe at how many varied and dynamic characters George R.R. Martin writes? It seems unnatural that someone could be that worldly.

>>19498550
no. i have browser settings to delete history upon close, and have no 'restore previous session' option highlighted. they're gone.
previously a normie saw i had 15 tabs open at once and thought that was insane.

>>19498542
I'll give it a full read for plot in the morning, its late over here. Check back in tomorrow.

>>19498607
The last guy who said that never came back :*(
But seriously if its no trouble I would appreciate it.

how do you put your work out there?
i want to become a novelist, and i also want to become an established screenwriter. how do i do it? where do i start?

i have written seriously before, but i never considered it a realistic career path for myself. but now i'm willing to take the gamble. how do publishers work? how do we contact them?

>>19498627
keep your day job
visit google
screenwriting doesn't sell and no agent wants them. write cottage cozies or find another profession.
it sounds like youre more in love with the idea of *being* a writer than actually fucking writing. do an ego check.

>>19498642
i'm sorry i came across that way, but this is a sincere question. i'm a STEM major. i plan to write more than i already do, but only recently did i realize that i know nothing about the industry.
i didn't know that screenwriting didn't sell.

>>19496230
>>19496250
I have. I've written a lot, given readings of my work, and have been published a few places, been shortlisted for some contests. I'm just struggling to find out what's next. What should I do next? I'm struggling to figure out what to do when there's no clear path of writing career progression in my head. I don't think I could be working my day job and doing writing at night forever. I kinda wanna make writing and thinking about writing my primary focus.

And given corona, I don't have any writing circles. It's a bit difficult for me to write when I know that there's a zero likelihood that anyone other than me will read it and that there'll be no one willing to give me meaningful feedback.

That's why I kinda wanna do a creative writing course. just for the community and feedback and mentoring.

>>19498669
>>19498663
go look at manuscriptwishlist and see what agents are actually looking for. you can't snap your fingers and be successful and wealthy. there are like 2 million people trying to submit their writing in english alone. you could have read the OP links instead of asking to be hand-held with a novice question answerable at google.

>>19498712
>you can't snap your fingers and be successful and wealthy.

i know, and i would never imply that.

>asking to be hand-held with a novice question answerable at google.

as stupid as this sounds, i felt like i wanted a real, actual person to answer a question of this kind.

also fyi i'm not >>19498669
thank you so much anon!

>>19498727
You didn't mean any harm but I guess the lesson you can take away from this is that someone is always going to read the worst possible meaning into anything you write, so don't hold back!

>>19498525
I hope you're only pretending to be retarded.
Oh, who am I kidding, this is /wg/, it probably actually happened

>>19498525
>200 tabs
Get on my level

>>19495609
How do you start on writing the rules and structure of a killing game?

>>19499124
You don't, most of them are completely arbitrary and fall apart as soon as you think about them for more than five seconds

>>19499112
How the fuck does your phone not explode?

>>19497357
Depends on the kind of book you are writing. If you want to write a "page-turner", then put all your effort into the plot, but if you want to do a psychological deep-dive, then prose becomes much more important.
I really love Houellebecq and in his novels, nothing really happens. It's mostly some pathetic french guy walking around, remembering and reminiscing. But he is able to put his finger on some philosophical or cultural issue, and deliver it with engaging prose, to create a great book.

By the way, I like the writing sample, good job.

>>19499124
I'm not sure. I'll get back to you maybe.

My gut says that you don't start with the game. You start with your story.

Chaylice Herero- in the heart of the French Republic, the newspaper:

One of the doors was almost knocked out its hinges as the council approached. Louis Aragon, Michel Foucault, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jacques Derrida, Louis Althusser, Roland Barthes, Simone de Beauvoir, Gilles Deleuze, Félix Guattari, Michel Leiris, Alain Robbe-Grillet, Philippe Sollers, Jacques Rancière, Jean-François Lyotard, Francis Ponge, Bernard Besret; naked, alongside a horde of nakedly dead-nigger children that rolled alongside them.

‘I am Chaylice.’

Another man came in:

‘I must fuck every single one of them, every dead being that’s been brought forth onto me, by the council of pedophiles! There is not a single man in this room that has not performed a act of supreme-rape butchering pedophilia, and that includes most of the Jews in France, especially the Jews, who are now accompanying the Council of Rape, whose tribute is much appreciated as a result of the abolishment of the consent age we are now free to rape as much as we please.

While Europe is being distracted by faggots and niggers, we are free to do as we please with these underage children I’m to dine upon.’

The feast had begun.

The beasts had come in and allowed for rape to carry. Hundreds upon hundreds of journalists, of moguls, of rich people, the Jews, Arabs and other Pedophiles were welcome in. Allah himself was there, forefront upon the rape that had commenced, upon the bodies presented onto him, the dead-nigger children and their ugly-puffy bells that upon being rung for the last time had caused a most concussive of dark abodes to rise, the deathly countenance that was to be swept beneath the brush by the array of false-flags, jewish lies, as they, in a most befuddling manner as there was, managed to completely brainwash the French folk into believing there was no child-rape going on at the Chaylice Herero headquarters, which had served, ever since its very inception as a; ‘I’m going to fucking rape you!’ Quickly enough, yet expected, Sartre interrupted. He had been a finger’ itching down a brown-hole out of which he could not pull his arm out over the course of the next five or so following hours.

A hobble for hobos and hooligans; and niggers; of which race Chaylice Herero himself was a member of; poor nigger only knew a few words; poor nigger only knew how to spell his name, that’s all.

‘Damn niggers come in France, take our childs; take’m childs away. I say, as a famed French Philosopher, I say, there’s but little to be minded of their behavior as is, what’s left to say and make out of, these, these dirty, filthy, un-civilized monkeys; they’re to be cast out and made learn and do with who is charge of this place! Oui, oui; oi! Save sum for me, you little faggot!’

He but yelled at one of the journalists, who was already knee-deep in one of the most, the most; time was come to sail:

Making a bet to you writing fags here. I will spend the next two hours focussing only on my next short story.

>>19479098
good to see issue 3 is done
>my story made it into the summary
yeah

>>19499277
Did you succeed?

Thoughts on leaving the antagonist's motivation unclear and just hint at several possibilities?

>>19498553
As much shit people give him, other writers seem to agree he's great at juggling lots of dynamic characters at once.

This is a section from my work in progress treatise on Chris Chan. What do you think?
---------
Christian Weston Chandler has raped his mother. Uninitiated passerbys and noncommitted spectators proclaim the end of Christory. Christorians recognize the event as the ushering in of a new era, the beginning of a vile saga, the shedding of an unhealthy but working skin in favor of a broken and diseased one. Christory has passed over into tragedy. Let this occurrence separate the grain from the husk. For those who prefer, now, to excuse themselves, Christory is, has been and will be unbearable.
The Christorian knows that Christory ends in Christians death and no sooner. The Christorian does not hide from the place the current flows toward, just as the scholar does not shy away from documenting atrocities.

>>19498553
Maybe it comes with being 70 and reading a fuck ton?

>>19499592
Can work. Mystery is powerful and adds suspense.

But then the climax needs to build towards finally learning the antagonist's motivation, and that part better be good.

>>19499622
I think the only time I truly felt bad for Chris was just recently when he said he got bullied in prison.
Since we've know Chris he's always been bullied but it was always by people who had a fascination with him, not someone who is bullying him just out of proximity combined with disgust. It must feel a lot like school to him.
You'll notice that the way Chris has talked about being bullied in school versus the modern style of bullying has been two separate attitudes. He has this indignation about internet trolling. It's not fair that we pick on him, we're wrong to do so and we'll see in time. When he talks about school it was always about keeping his head down, not drawing attention and waiting for it to be over.

>>19499657
>It must feel a lot like school to him.
I mean, he fucking loved high school

>>19496102
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41979/a-hero-among-monsters
My pen name is radraccoon.
I just posted chapter 16 to Royal road and yesterday I finished the second draft of the book (the last chapter, 37, is very short.) Time to take a breather before I start really outlining book 2.

>>19499650
I was thinking of him revealing his supposed motivation in the climax, but with me leaving clues throughout the story that he might be lying and hinting at other reasons, and never actually working out a direct answer myself, just leave it ambiguous whether he's lying or telling the truth

>>19499683
I guess you're correct. I had always remembered Chris talking about the bullying received in high school, so much so that all the parts he was nostalgic for slipped out of my long term memory.

>>19499687
Keep it up anon. I haven't got around to reading yet but I've made a mental note to start when I finish up Antkind.

Do you guys think it's necessary to be good at being environmentally descriptive? I get a lot of compliments for the way I write characters and having a simple but clear style of writing because I don't tend to hyper focus on small details.

>>19499731
Yes and no. It’s good to be able to envision the environment the characters are in and integrate them into a scene. But describing minute details even the characters wouldn’t notice or care about just bogs down a scene. It’s important not to have scenes take place in a vacuum all the time. Use the environment to accentuate a discussion (e.g., if two characters are talking while sitting, who gets upset and stands up first? Do they use the fact they’re standing and the other is sitting to indicate a power imbalance? Is it possible the other chair was just really uncomfortable and the other character misinterprets their actions?) But you don’t need to tell me the specific kind of wood and how it was carved, stained, where it was bought, etc. unless that is SUPER pertinent.

Anons, I don't think this deserves a new thread, so I will just ask here: many classic novels from the 19th century have young, poor students living alone as protagonists. They struggle both with their inner demons and with their quest for knowledge.

Stuff like Hunger by Hamsun, Demian by Hesse, Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky and The Skin of Shagreen by Balzac.

Is there a name for this stereotype? I suppose it often appear in formation novels.

>>19496102
Well, even though it more of a /a/ story, I spend a lot more time here than in the isekai thread where the story started.
>https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/23547/a-super-robot-story
2021 is hiatus city, with only one, 40th, chapter released during it, but it'll get back on track in time.

>>19499807
>trapped in a video game isekai
Anon..

>>19499829
Someone did point out that only anime writers write, so you can’t be surprised.

>>19499786
Coming of age?
Makes me think of Murakami’s Kafka on the Shore, Catcher in the Rye, Prayer for Owen Meaney…is this what you’re thinking of, or something different?

>>19499858
B/c an anime writer looks at their work and can honestly say “Hey, this is better than half the shit I read”. Even the most talented /lit/izens look at their own writing and cringe, comparing it to the classics.

>>19499731
You dont have to hit every detail, but having characters interact with setting rather than standing in it will give tension to your scenes. When a character fixes something, looks at something, throws it at someone, chases it, those all bring setting detail.

>>19499829
It's a dimension that develops in a way that's similar to a video game's plot.

>>19499926
Don't you feel at least a little embarrassed saying this? How old are you?

How do you respond if you make the announcement you posted the latest chapter of your story, and somebody asks you if there’s a chapter one? Am I wrong in assuming the person is some sort of idiot?

>>19499982
>asking for age
Now, that's rude.
Also, why would I feel embarassed when established sci fi authors always did whatever they wanted? From life of a director of magical beings reservation where he drank dwarven ale with ghost of Shakespeare and a troll, by Simak, to a series based on a Master of Orion playthrough, called Line of Delirium, by Lukianenko.
Even early 20 century authors, like Herbert Wells with Two guys fly to the Moon in a cannonball, or Burroughs with A soldier dies in USA Civil War and revives on Mars.

>>19500013
Some stories have their early chapters as prologue, and some people prefer to skip that.

>>19496912
Well, I plan on giving the rapist and the raped a happy ending, so I guess the latter of what you ask? It has pretty much turned into the pair just being sex-friends at the moment with a date chapter soon to come after the next one. As for how extreme? Well, despite using a Taimanin pic in the OP, I can't say it is excessively extreme, probably as close to vanilla as the rape can get. But, I have no idea what that would be, all I can say is that it has a bit of mind breakage to it. Or, rather, references to a certain statistic with women and rape.

>>19500019
Son, it's far too late to pretend to be an intellectual

>>19500124
I don't pretend, I write what I want to read.

Oh God. The book is 136k words long. According to my original outline this was only the first act of a single book. What’s wrong with me?!

>>19500139
Nothing, expanding upon things as you write is generally how it goes. No plan survives first contact, remember that. I once planned for a moon to be blown up in the 12th vol of my series, instead that has been pushed back to 24 or so as I have been expanding upon the characters a lot more than I thought.

>>19500139
It's fine, Just edit it for extra fluff and filler.

>>19500155
Isn’t it just word diarrhea at that point? How can we be so presumptuous as to think anyone would want to read so much?
Is it possible to distill so much into something more digestible (20k words?) without it being mindlessly shallow?

>>19500168
It's up to the author, but edits should serve the story, not just a word count, because that's a slippery slope,

>>19500168
>Isn’t it just word diarrhea at that point? How can we be so presumptuous as to think anyone would want to read so much?
The fuck? Most classics are really long. The fact that people today are retarded monkeys with no attention span doesn't mean you should stoop to the level of YA writers and mindlessly cater to that retardation.

>>19500286
But then why did I make my whole cast queer POC?

>>19500286
Yeah, you should totally write YA trash that is also longer than most classics. The best of both worlds

Unrelated but when you use the word “Been” to describe you being at a location in the past, can it be the last word in the sentence?
Example:
>This is the nicest place I have been.
Or is the correct form
>This is the nicest place I have been to.
Or in other words is that “to” necessary?

>>19500352
The lower is more correct grammatically, but it's common to omit it, especially in spoken language. I wouldn't find either weird, personally.

Anyone here's writing technique consist of just closing your eyes, put oj earplugs, lying down, and just playing literally the entire story out visually in your head?

Nothing else works well for me. I can't just think of shit on front of the laptop. I can barely think in a classroom. Said process is the only thing that works.

>>19500465
My writing technique consists of balancing a couple of storylines in my thread at all times and passively thinking about them during the day, I barely do any active thinking about it, it's all stuff that pops into my head while working on something else

>>19500465
I go for walks and dictate an outline into my phone, and then do any actual writing the next day.

Why do I experience intense social anxiety when I think about writing fiction?

>>19500465
Sometimes I just look at the floor or an empty wall instead of the screen. I may start writing multiple scenarios of how a scene plays and choose my fav.
On an unrelated note I was looking for agents who made requests for speculative scifi and found about 6 that also liked genres I was interested in fusing with it like horror or southern gothic. Also shouldnt have been surprised but a lot of women and people requesting lgbt characters (not about a gay man, but about someone who just so happens to be gay.) Thought it was /lit/ exagerating. I might write one sentence nodding at afro-fururists for giggles, now that I think of it.

Are authors forced to choose between literary and genre fiction? I've been solely focused on literary fiction, but now I'd like to try something pulpier and less "artistic", so to speak. Is that a bad idea?

>>19500516
Because you’d rather be writing nonfiction?

>>19495609
Please give me a source on that image, the filename doesn't help me

>>19500554
I don't think its helpful to aim for a specific label when you're writing. Its not as if genre fiction is completely devoid of artistic merit or as if nobody in literary fiction ever fucks or kills or sees paranormal shit.

>>19500554
In a way, you have to choose your audience. Literary readers want better prose and life-altering visions. You can satisfy both, but at some point you may alienate readers unless you hook them well. Same with publishers, who think more about categories of who is buying. You can have important things to say in genre fiction, such as Bradbury or or HG Wells and eventually literary crowd may take a look anyways.

>>19500622
Looks like Sakura from Taimanin Asagi. I mean, that’s what a friend of mine says. I wouldn’t be familiar with that sort of crap. I get laid. By women.

>publishing house wants an interview next week about my manuscript
Bros...I'm going to be sick.

Is sub stack a better option than Royal road or watt pad?

>>19500637
>>19500650
What concerns me is the idea of author classification; how writing genre fiction makes you seem incapable of being a literary author and how writing literary fiction makes you seem like an intruder trying to get into an "easier" market. I might just be acting like a paranoid retard.
I've been writing stories about the hardships of being old and alone, about people growing up and wasting their potential, stuff like that. Now I want to write an ultra violent story about a girl possessed by a demon who goes around killing other demons, just for fun.

>>19500733
Okay, well its not like you're Taylor Swift at the CMAs, literally nobody gives a fuck who you are and you could not sell out or pander even if you wanted to. You may as well be discussing what you would do if you won the lottery.

>>19500733
I know how you feel. I havent settled on one category yet because I mainly choose what I think best tells the story and a way to find where my voice resonates. If I like writing something and an agent wants to see more from that genre and offers a contract, I might consider I've found a niche for a few years if not an entire career. I'd really love to write an animeshit fantasy trilogy, but I'll leave it for now. There are other stories I need to tell first.

>>19500688
I also get laid. By woman. Real (2D) woman.

>>19500724
hol fuck based! what's your manuscript about? how ya feel?

>>19500168
Your problem is that you are thinking about this as a product maker, not a hobbyist.

>>19499587
I made the post while I was at work, so I failed because I was still technically at work. got pulled into a last minute meeting.

But I spent nearly two hours thinking and writing since I came back home. so all in all, I'd say i succeeded

thanks for asking me anon

>>19501081
not that anon, but I always wanted to ask this to a hobbyist writer
what is your end goal? what are you trying to get out of an activity that is so consuming of time and mental energy? I get that you write in your free time as a hobby but then what? do you edit it? do you intend to publish it? submit it to contests?

I have been thinking about turning my story into a screenplay since the things im trying to convey would be better suited for an audio-visual format?

Anyone else ever done this? What are /wg/'s thoughts on screenwriting

>>19500726
That's a subscription letter site no? Not online publishing.

>>19500584
No. When I try to write about normal characters, it's as though I've invited myself to someone else's party.

The other option is basically to have all of the characters be my sockpuppets. I guess this is what Nisio Isin does, but that kind of style is very light and arch. It also prevents tension from developing when the characters are so like-minded.

>>19500352
>native english speaker
>university degree
>extremely, extremely well read
>realize i can't even speak english
what the fuck is wrong with this language.

>>19501125
>what is your end goal?
To be able to sit back and nod happily at the fact that not only did I finish an original story, but it was also one that is entirely of my own making.

>>19500554
>>19500733
some complain that they want to write in more than one genre and have to use pen names to do so. it's bad for branding, or something, because the author name on the book sets up an expectation in the reader for the contents, or at least i think that's the justification. agents prefer you stick to one genre but they'll be willing to publish more.

try it for yourself. when you hear the name "Mishima" you have certain expectations for his novel even if it's one you havent read before. if you hear "Tolkien" same thing. it's not a reflection on you as a person, it's a convenience for the reader, so stop getting offended.
>>19500724
congrats anon. wagmi.

>>19500724
>publishing house wants an interview next week about my manuscript

>>19500866
>I also get laid. By woman.

Woah, /lit/ is on fire today!

>>19500139
This, but "oh god, my whole book is only 30k words?"
Every time.

>>19500465
I get inspired, then pace for hours, sometimes 8+ hours, sometimes two days with a sleep break until I've coalesced what inspired me into a scene, then I form a story that will reach that scene at its climax. Then I sperg out a ton of words for a few days straight until its done. Then I set it aside and tell myself I just need to rewrite/edit it before I can publish it, but instead I let it sit there for years until I hate it for being juvenile and think it's not worth the effort fixing it up. Rinse and repeat for ~15 books.

>>19501923
so many people on /wg/ have no understanding of target wordcounts and what is reasonable. it would be fine if they were going to self publish or do gay webnovel shit with it but time and time again we get idiotic users who are trying to publish something that's 180k words and are asspained and raging that they get rejected. people did read the op links, right?
how the fuck hard is it to google the expected wordcount for your genre?

>>19501973
did you just assume my genre?

>>19501923
>Cool I'm done with my first draft, now to make sure it is consistent
>half the scenes placehold paragraphs and just 30k words total
>wanna do third draft with all the fun prose exercises and detail
>cant do that because of all the unwritten sections

>>19502005
if you still have placeholders, your draft isn't "done"
>>19501979
lost

>>19502021
That was what I implied, bröther.

>>19500843
My question was very presumptuous, you're right.
>>19500859
>I'd really love to write an animeshit fantasy trilogy
That's where I stand now. I think I might go for it and maybe publish it online as I make it up.
>>19501416
It was not about being offended, but rather about the idea you defend o names creating expectations. Author get associated with genres, that's how it is and it is completely normal. Maybe I could just use pennames every time I want to try out something weird. Still, I'm worrying about pointless details that won't matter unless I actually fucking do something.

>>19502114
how would you feel if you went to buy a cabbage, and sometimes the package had a cabbage, sometimes it was broccoli, and sometimes it was apples?
the reader comes first, not your ego.

>>19502154
I was agreeing with you. I wasn't concerned about the recognition, I was concerned about being able to branch out and still get published in the future.

>>19502190
i'm just stating it in a parable for everyone else to understand, fren.

>>19502200
I apologize for having such an abrupt reaction

I've found that the earlier I wake up, the more consistently I read and write. Since waking up at 2AM, work isn't the first thing on my mind in the morning now.

>>19496119
women dont know anything about loneliness, anxiety, etc. it's your fault here

>>19502779
I read "A Piece of News" by Eudora Welty recently, and to me it seems like a female perspective of anxiety over loved ones.
>>19496119
Are characters not allowed to be flawed? Not calling you Shakespeare, but Romeo and Juliet is often seen as unrealistic but no one cares because you get the catharsis that comes from the teenagers' tragic flaws killing them both. It shows how much love hurts and how much people believe in it. People call R&J a tragedy because they empathize with lost love. I think your beta reader may have little empathy and sees flaws as pathetic instead of tragic or something to be overcome. So two things here:
>listen to what the beta readers say, but diagnose why they feel that way
>in this case, see if there's something you can do to make readers like your character more
Readers like characters that are sympathetic: have you character show kindness, even to just an animal. Have other characters like them and readers might agree with them. Competent characters are liked. Proactive characters are liked. You're able to use those three with various degrees, but don't max out all three or they'll be Mary Sues. Even despicably flawed characters like Raskolnikov was loved and respected by a few characters, fairly competent and proactive enough to make me care about what happened to him. It could be your character is just fine, but seeing the hostility makes me think it's worth analyzing.

>>19495609
any podcast about writing or that makes analysis of the writing of books or something?

>>19500724 here.
>>19501076
>>19501416
>>19501855
Change of plans. The interview happened today. Afterward, they told me to slap my name and a copyright notice on the manuscript cover page and want me to send it asap!

I call this one "november"

oh hard-on cruel
oh hard edged night
undulled
by amorous display of light
no faye mirage
no wench oasis
to quench me in my thirsty stasis
oh chad, oh stacey
oh riley reid
our one-side friendship had its time
but times must change
like ocean tides
and each nut saved
is death defied

>>19503336
Fucking based.

how are your creations coming boys?

>>19503448
Haven't started on the next chapter in 8 days. I feel I've been struggling a lot lately. Not giving up on it of course, I'd never do that, just frustrated with my output. It gets done eventually, and that's what matters.

>He thinks his 2000 word metamodernist epic about alienation and lack of purpose in the modern world will ever be read by more than 2 people

What's one personal writing tic you try to get rid off?

For me, it's the way i name my characters. I just by default give them a name of someone i know in real life. It's caused some awkward situations in the past

The misty ideas for my second book are now swirling out of ambition into shapes. I see a ruined city in telescopes and a gunpowderblack beast on the horizon. I see a protagonist who seeks vengeance and who might have his bicep sliced apart. I am starting to see for him an antagonist who will breathe life into him. A lawman and a hunter of hunters. I see a temptation corrupting the hunter, not the hunt. Finally, a sense of deja vu before a scene not survived, but if it is for the antagonist or his enemy I do not know. But I am almost ready to find out.

>come home from work
>too tired to write

I'm not going to make it, am I?

this idea was bouncing around for a couple days, unsure of where to take it. couldn't settle down to sleep before I wrote it. feel free to crit

>>19498622
Sorry for taking so long, life has been tough today and will be tough again for the next few days. Ah well.

I honestly liked it a lot. Naturally it starts in action so it draws my attention, and there are minute details that slowly build the concept of a modern world that seems post-disaster (climate change lol) and perhaps warlike. I've definitely seen worse plots get published, but of course this isn't anything special I'd say (so far).
Honestly not much to say. I'm interested to see what happens next. One thing to say maybe is that near the end there was too much fluff and chatter between the gang/hijackers. It kind of slowed down and didn't add much.

How do you pronounce solstice?
>salst-ice
>sals-tiss

>got word back from a small press
>said they found "a lot to like" and "some things to change" about the first book of my big story
>biggest problem is that the book is too long

They're saying that they want me to get the book below 100,000 words. It's 140,000 words right now. This is bothering me a lot. They'd ideally like it closer to 90,000 words. They mentioned my tendency to repeat adjectives, verbs, and clauses as a problem, and suggested a streamlining. This is something I'm prepared to do and am willing to do. But even if I go on a crusade against repetition, I'm just not sure there's 40,000 words I can cut in the book. The book does a lot, especially with the development of its main characters and helping the reader to get to know them on a very intimate level. I can cut some, I know that, I just don't think I can cut THAT much. I could rewrite the whole thing, but there's so much that gets done in this book that even if I did a total rewrite I think it would clock in at over 100,000 words.

>>19504942
Post a sample page and I'll show you what to cut.

>tfw I realize that the last 3 chapters of the web serial I'm working on are like 80% dialogue
Do people get upset about this kind of thing? It's not like it's unimportant dialogue, things are happening, but the vast majority of the last ~7k words I've written are either dialogue or actions happening during dialogue.
>main duo manage to blunder their way into good graces with a crime syndicate, rather one of them does and the other is barely tolerated
>crime syndicate asks guy they like to murder a few people for them on account of the fact that they just watched him murder someone else (basically implied blackmail)
>eventually they manage to leave and scurry back to a group they've been working for who are the target of this syndicate
>they inform on what happened, minus the first murder of course, in hopes that the group will give them a reward
>later that night sidekick says he's not gonna kill the targets and main character guy is eventually convinced to go along with this since he knows that in the worst case scenario for sidekick's plan he can jus ditch and kill the targets for the crime guys
>next day some misc stuff goes on, sidekick fences some stolen goods (ties in to a previous chapter)
>group calls them back and basically gives them an offer they can't refuse to kill the leader of the syndicate (they need money quickly, and now that they've snitched they're fucked if said group wants to expose them)
>price haggling ensues, eventually a deal is struck
>later that night they're both sitting in sidekick's inn room and sidekick is freaking out because he realizes how fucked they are unless they can somehow assassinate the leader of the syndicate then get their payment and get on a boat off of the island they're on before someone puts them in the ground
I mean, to me this is interesting but I'm the one writing it. I don't even really know what I'm asking at this point, would you fags be pissed off of you were reading some royal road story and it spent 3 chapters doing all of this?

>>19504932
soul-stiss

>>19504961
>would you fags be pissed off of you were reading some royal road story
Don't worry bro, I don't read any

>>19504942
ask them why they're setting some arbitrary number on your story instead of letting it take its proper form. Stephen king once said his publisher told him to trim down the stand because they calculated the original price of the book and said the market wouldn't bear it. is it because of something like that? even if you do decide to do the trimming, I would keep the original material intact all the same. I very much enjoy the unabridged version of the stand.
I am also reminded of blood song by Anthony ryan, which a publisher refused to publish, which led to him self publishing, which led to much success, which led to a deal with penguin or whatever. I'm not sure why they refused in the beginning though. blood song is like 650 pages so I assume it had something to do with that, bubthe book is excellent. shake about the shitty sequels though. its always hard to figure out what should be cut and what shouldn't, and in my opinion the difference between the master and the novice is knowing when to walk away from the canvas. don't compromise your art to appease a corporation.

Since I'm having problems coming up with fulfilling plotlines for any of my like seven vaguely related stories or enough material for any of them to justify their own book, I'll just have them all converge into one ending and in the meantime have them randomly switch between different points of view just like George.

>>19505010
Their word counts do seem a bit arbitrary. They mentioned offhand that "debut novels" are typically between 75,000 and 90,000 words. So maybe it's just that they're worried what would sell, and how length plays a part in it.

The praise they gave me felt pretty meaningful, too. They said:

>You have a strong opening and a uniquely seamless way of switching between character perspectives.

So it sounds like they like some of the essential elements of the story.

Beyond repetition of words, clauses, and phrases, one thing they critiqued was profanity. This is one I'm really not sure about, since my main characters are teenagers in a somewhat-modern setting. They're even in high school. They curse as a matter of course. Most of it comes from one character in particular, who is an aggressive, simmering firebrand of a character. Cursing a lot is part of his character, it's an element of his characterization. So I'm loathe to cut back on it. Most of the other characters don't curse nearly as much. He's also arguably the least mature member of the cast, which makes his profanity an additional element of characterization.

>>19505094
weel they're right that debut novels are generally shorter, but again you shouldn't compromise the story if you believe in it. obviously don't get rid of the cursing. ask the publishers if they've been to a high school lately, everyone is a swearing degenerate.

I wish I knew how to improve my prose.

how do i force myself to just write?
specifically, i tend to find i either don't write, or write thousands of words in a stream-of-consciousness trance. the latter only happens rarely because when i try to force it, instead of being captivated by an idea i sit going over the minutiae of word-choices or the awkwardness of dialogue or any of the other problems which only arise when i make the mistake of stopping and thinking what i'm writing, turning it from an easy task of converting thoughts to words (as i'm doing now!) into a far more difficult one with some semblance of self-awareness.
perhaps the question could be rephrased: how do i stop myself from thinking while writing?

>>19505227
Start by having ideas and an actual reason to write. "I listed writing as a hobby on Tinder and I need a portfolio so show people so they don't accuse me of lying" is not a valid reason.

>>19505193
Are you ESL? This reminds me strongly of pic related. It's very confused and much too complicated. You might find it helpful to use line breaks and paragraph indents to stop using run on sentences. Normally I like to rewrite things but I really have no idea how to do yours. It's too bizarre.

>The great machine was but a spherical-object implanted into a house-like horizontally building, hellish-pounded structure with clasper bands enveloping it that formed ridges, giving it the impression of spin, yet, it only looked like some machine outside, for inside, it was fleshy, a living being that hid inside its tomb, tricking other-living passer-by's (it's "passers by", btw) that it was but a preservation-fridge with a giant mold-battery, holding the cocoons alive, while in reality, they died the moment they made contact with it.

Read this out of context. This is all one sentence. Now I know you have a strong brand of autism, and that can be useful, but you need to learn to channel it into productive things instead of shitting everywhere. People don't like shit, but they do like autistic dedication. Otherwise, lord of the rings and such wouldn't be popular. I am actually very interested in what you're describing, the problem is that I have no fucking idea what it is or what you're getting at. It unironically reads like something someone would write after catching a glimpse of lovecraft's great ones. Or maybe similar to what francis crick tapped into when he discovered DNA while high on LSD. Maybe just a bit more coherency, less stream of consciousness psychobabble, and a dictionary, because I'm pretty sure "fetusi" isn't a real word. But for real what the fuck is this.

How dun did I goof by systematically writing iteratively more specific descriptions for each character in my dramatis personae to generate portraits with Artflow?
If I'll be fine, how do I make it understand that I want my white Mulan analogue to be rough around the edges and massive as opposed to the dainty Hollywood warrior princesses it's been giving me?

>>19505227
you have autism. consider uninstalling or simply writing without worrying about retarded bullshit.

>>19505010
>instead of letting it take its proper form

If your story goes far over 100k words, then it's most likely plagued by repetitive, unfocused, masturbatory wankery, without anything of essence to say. Nobody cares about a monolith full of meaningless setpieces that are there just for the author's fun. Even most books shorter than that are a slog

>>19505235
i'm curious, did something in how i posed the question make you suspect that was my case, or is that just the standard situation for someone who wants to write but doesn't?

>>19505261
probably accurate, an impression i'll reinforce by asking: isn't
>simply writing without worrying about retarded bullshit
what i was asking for assistance in finding a way to do?

>>19505276
No motive you could have for wanting "to write" but not having any actual story to tell could be any less dumb than the one I gave.

>>19505238
>Are you ESL
No, but I have a learning disability. I'll try looking for something else if it helps.

>>19505276
you might as well look up meditation techniques, it will be more helpful than anything anyone here is likely to tell you

>>19505284
Thanks now I feel bad for making fun of a retard. I'm not qualified to deal with you people so all I can tell you is that this shit is incomprehensible to a normal person.

>>19505282
it could on the other hand be more contrived: having ideas, and viewing writing those ideas out as an end in itself, without being excessively concerned about quality, possible audience, publication, or anything of that sort, and yet still tripping up as i do.
i suspect your impression is of a pretentious person who wants the status of being "a writer" without the bother of actually writing, while my actual situation is that i've no interest in that status - the person i look to with envy is the prolific fanfiction author. not taken particularly seriously, but very good at the conversion of ideas into text for their own sake.

>>19505286
fair enough

>>19505312
Embarrassing clout is still clout amd you are still a clout chaser

>>19505324
to be embarrassed you'd surely have to presume there's an audience

>>19505324
Stop taking out your own insecurities on others, it's juvenile.

>>19505326
You'll always have an audience of one at the very least, unless you're an NPC, then there's your creativity problem.

Please rate my writing for a game.

>>19505350

>>19505351

>>19505350
>>19505351
>>19505356
The last thing this universe needs is another high fantasy role playing game with original content do not steal lore nobody cares about

>>19505359
What did I steal? And what do you mean nobody cares?

>>19505350
I really have no idea what you want me to say. This is a rough draft for a game plot with no additional information about how the gameplay and mechanics will interlink with the story. Were you actually contracted to write for a game, or is this just some bullshit? Regardless, character backstories are hopelessly contrived and overall this reads like a 13 year old's deviantart post. However, people who play video games are really fucking stupid, so this is not a deal breaker if you're aiming for that.
>>19505361
lol

r8 this final stanza

>>19505368
Gameplay is a typical turn based JRPG. JRPGs have heavy focus on plot. I am writing the game which is to be released on Steam. What's your criticism for the backstory? Doesn't sound like you've read it. I'm not writing Hamlet I'm writing a JRPG targeted at the mainstream audience.

I need proper criticism, unless this is a troll. I didn't steal anything either.

>>19505292
All right, this is post psychotic meds writing. If I'm not coherent here, I feel as if I'll never be capable of writing!
Any noticeable improvement?

How did you go about getting cover art for your novel?

>>19505387
Your favorite artist on DeviantArt would love to take a commission and get paid doing what xe loves.

>>19505387
Ask /ic/

>>19505377
JRPGs also have the stupidest stories in all of gaming. Most of them are teenagers using the power of friendship to kill god. I've been playing vidya for 20 years, I know.
>this guy is really cool because he has two guns like starlord from guardians of the galaxy and he grew up in the slums just like (insert literally any jrpg protag here. for me, it's vaan from FFXII) and his parents and friends were all killed so he conveniently has an excuse to go adventuring in space also he made an anime promise to his sister which he forgot (what!? -t. you)
>this guy is a prince who wants to literally go to the Garden of Eden to beat up the Creator (presumably he uses the power of friendship with the other guy to accomplish this particular bit of deicide)
Admittedly the part about him getting cucked and then killing the cucker and then his gf killing herself wasn't contrived, but it was also hilariously "shitpost"-y, if you see what I mean.
Any other details about this alleged game? Because you just posted the roughest draft possible, and it's a whole hell of a lot easier to say you're going to make a game than actually make one. It's actually much easier to write several novels in the time it takes to make one game worth playing.

>>19505380
I feel like if you had a tard wrangler who could pick your brain and parse what exactly you meant by this, then edit it into something legible, it would be very engaging. I really, really don't want to put you down or anything. Just keep trying, anything is possible. You have a very interesting mind.

>>19505397
It has three parts >>19505351
>>19505356
He grew up in the slums because his entire planet was destroyed, and made a name for himself there.
I am working on the backstory for the Selfish Prince, but I think it's a pretty good start.
I am not into writing novels, because I have aphantasia. I don't read either. That's why I'm writing a game and need /lit/ advice. Like how do I make the girl MC the most appealing girl ever, so that /v/ makes a thread regularly about her as a waifu kind of thing.

>>19505404
>Like how do I make the girl MC the most appealing girl ever, so that /v/ makes a thread regularly about her as a waifu kind of thing.
This makes me think you're someone who only cares about sales and popularity, which is incredibly soulless, as they say on that board. Back to /v/ retard. Why the fuck would you be asking advice from a bunch of people who read and write? Why not go to /v/ and ask people who play video games their opinions on your video game story? Oh right because they'll tell you to fuck off with your retard vaporware shit until there's actually a playable game to go along with your fanfiction tier garbage. If you want to be popular with fucking retard coomers then just take a page out of yanderedev's book and make an anime hentai fetish game for children and rake in the patreon money, you fucking whore.

>>19505412
I knew you were a troll, thanks for revealing yourself. I don't care about popularity or money, I care that my characters are loved for eternity and regular waifu threads are evidence of that. That's why you see Rei and Asuka threads today. You must be a boomer if you don't understand the importance of waifu threads.
And I'm not from /v/. I'm from /ic/ and /opg/ and /agdg/, faggot crab.
Your advice was useless, thanks for wasting my time.

>>19505350
>>19505351
>>19505356
Does anyone have any actual critique, like from a literary standpoint? Like the five rules of writing.

>>19505421
>I don't care about popularity, I care that my characters are loved for eternity and regular waifu threads are evidence of that.
Remember when I said the people who play video games are incredibly fucking stupid? God sometimes I feel embarrassed that I share a hobby with people like you. Sure, just brush it off as "trolling" like every other bourgeois midwit retard does these days. You asked for feedback for your alleged game, and I gave you feedback. Cope seethe and dilate about it while you fuck around in unity.

>>19505431
no now fuck off
>inb4 doesn't fuck off and responds instead

>>19505435
Well, considering I don't actually play video games, I only develop them, I don't fall into your criteria. So I actually don't share a hobby with you, who is by your own definition retarded. You didn't give ANY feedback, you literally just said "Waah go to /v/" like a little immature edgelord. Embarrassing that I'm even considering giving you another chance to give proper critique.

Is /lit/ really this underage?

>>19505440
>I don't actually play video games, I only develop them
you're really on your way to the AAA big leagues kek
>You didn't give ANY feedback, you literally just said "Waah go to /v/" like a little immature edgelord.
ahahaha you fucking retard. maybe go reread what I wrote about your shit instead of coping over it like a typical trannoid baseddev

>>19505445
You're a /lit/ local and you can't even use proper punctuation? And you use meme language like cope, too. Shocking. I want critique from actual /lit/erarians. Next!

>>19505448
cope faggot. as you would say, no doubt before tipping your fedora as hard as possible, it's embarrassing that I'm even deigning to reply to a retard like you

>>19505451
I'm not tipping a fedora. I don't own a fedora. I'm literally looking for fedora tippers so that they can give me fedora type advice. Not you, who can't even capitalize.

>>19505453
I already gave you my fedora tipping advice, you just dismissed it as "trolling". now I'm showing you what trolling really looks like. caught on yet, champ?

>>19505457
Why is the Shakespeare spoken about even today? It's the same as the waifu phenomenon, I want my work to be spoken about for centuries to come. Just like how people discuss Asuka and Rei today, because they were appealing characters. I want to make an appealing character, is that too complicated for your mind?

>>19505466
maybe you should start by not melting down when someone mildly criticizes your rough draft videogame writing. you think anno had a tard rage when his wrangler suggested they cut the rape scene from the directors cut of evangelion 2.4.9.3.1 or whatever? you think he called him a troll? or do you think he calmly accepted another point of view and integrated it into his frame of reference as he continued to develop his masterpiece?

>>19505477
Yes I am adopting the Anno mindset, I watched a whole documentary about him the other day on NHK. That's why I need to know. What philosophical questions, moral questions does an android raise? Why does an android want to become human? What makes an android character appealing, what makes her human.

>>19505486
hope you enjoy your insufferable 2deep4ufaggot fanbase then.
I was halfway through writing something I would recommend studying instead of a pretensious retard like anno, but then I thought better and just deleted it and decided to call you a retard one more time. happy trails!

>>19505494
Reminding you that you gave hints of trolling when you accused me of stealing ideas.

>>19505496
first of all, that was a different person who used the words original content do not steal. secondly, you are profoundly autistic for myopically focusing on the word "steal" instead of recognizing the ancient donut steel meme. kindly post a screenshot of your progress working on the game or fuck off.

>>19505486
You can play Nier Automata and watch Vivy anime as they try to address those.

>>19505498
Why the fuck should I know the donut steel meme, I don't have the humor /lit/ has so it wouldn't be in my memories even if I'd seen it before. It's a pun and puns are only funny when they're funny, not because they're famous or popular. You're contradicting your own idea about popularshit when you expect me to know some /v/ tier meme.

>>19505504
Thanks

>>19505505
hey man not cool, I'm just into studying memes that are super popular because I want to make a really popular meme that people will post threads about every day after I'm dead.

>>19505513
Popular where? Never seen the meme in my life, is it like /lit/'s pepe?

>>19505516
you hopeless autistic retard, lol

>>19505525
Is calling me autistic your way of telling me you're from reddit, friend?

>>19504537
see >>19502380

>proved he's from reddit.
Checkmate, I win.

>>19505531
no its my way of letting you know you didn't get the joke
>>19505541
better add it to internet arguments won.txt buddy

>>19505546
I looked it up, it's a popular meme on reddit. I've seen it before but it's too obscure for me to infer from >>19505359 I thought he was telling me not to steal lore.

You said you study popular memes but I never see it around here, I've been on this website everyday for over 14 years. Over here, you lose an argument if you're from plebbit and you lost. Bye.

>>19502380
The writer of True Detective said he wrote it at 4am before work chugging 5 hour energy drinks lol

>>19505118
>weel they're right that debut novels are generally shorter, but again you shouldn't compromise the story if you believe in it.

I might take another (more cynical) approach here. This is your first novel. The publishers job and yours is well aligned (get the most eyes on it) and they’ve got the experience to do it. Once you’re established, you will have more of a say in prioritizing the art over the business-side…but right now you gotta do what they say. :-(

I’ll add that while cutting 40% sounds brutal, you may discover that tightening it up improves the flow. Maybe ask if they want you to remove descriptive text only, or if there are any scenes/plotlines that they felt distracted from the story.

Congrats on getting this far! Be thankful and accommodating now, and (hopefully) you can have much more artistic freedom once you have some sales and reviews under your belt.

>>19505373

>>19495609
anime is off-topic on a lit board. it is also not an art form, but it is entertainment for children. please use a more literary OP

>>19505713
Really? Even manga doesn't count as literature?

>>19505773
There’s a reason it’s called /lit/ and not /books/. Ink and paper doesn’t make it /lit/.

>>19505882
Have you even read manga before? Most of them surpass Shakespeare in terms of literature, like Jojo.

>>19505893
Haha, you're funny

>>19505894
>he thinks I'm being ironic

Easily the worst thread we've had in months.

>>19505954
Why

>>19505935
You're a bit delusional, brother. >>19505947

>>19505960
Delusional to consider manga literature? Holy kek the cope. It's ok, I bet you consider Catcher in the Rye to be a masterpiece too.
protip: it:s not

>>19505696
how is it though? the diction? the imagery? the flow?

afaik as colons go, I like to use them in any way as long as it isn't technically wrong

>>19505995
I don't know what you're trying to achieve with this poem?

>>19505959
Terrible bait followed by retards taking the bait. Baiters have to continue the bait but don't know how. You'd think a writing general would have the best written bait but here we are.

>>19505969
Don't talk like you know me you little bitch. You don't know what I consider and what I don't consider a masterpiece. You don't know me alright. Now fuck off.

>>19506010
True, I wish we had better bait

>>19506006
what do you mean? do you mean to ask what the meaning of the poem is?

>>19506015
People like you are generally the same old *old good, new bad* type that think modern classics suck because they're new.

>>19505377
The plot is nothing original. Maybe if the gameplay mechanics or art style offer something unique people will buy it and enjoy it. Why are you making a game? If your game offers nothing fresh or doesn’t do something classic very well, why should people buy it over all the other high fantasy JRPGs? In short, what’s your selling point because the plot outline is too bare bones to win me over. It’s just a list of set pieces that we’ve all seen before. I don’t want to put you down but these are questions you need to address before continuing if you want a successful product.

>>19506018
I mean what are you trying to convey? Who are you reaching out to? Why are you making this poem? What feelings are being portrayed, what mood it's in, what effects will this poem make?

>>19506025
Where did I say that? I didn't, you little rat. Don't assume to know things when you don't.

>>19506026
The selling point would be the characters and dialogue. It would be philosophical posing lots of moral questions featuring interesting characters.

What SORT of space plot would interest you then, anyway?

>>19506039
I'm speaking based on trends. I've spoken to the likes of you many times before, I always hunt your type.

>>19506029
I'd honestly love to hear you answers to these exact qs. What do you think it conveys? What feelings do you feel? What mood is being presented?

That's why I posted it in this thread. just wanna hear other opinions

here's the whole thing if that'd help

>>19506051
Yeah, you're delusional, brother.

>>19506060
I'm not your brother. You might want to get yourself checked too bro.

>>19506039
>>19506059
ooh here

>>19505356
>>19505351
>>19505350
I'm just seeing a bunch of schlock and rule of cool. Nothing really interesting or thought provoking.
A lot of people will tell you to read more but I would give you the advice to play better JRPGs. What you are aping appears to be the worst aspects of them.

>>19506067
I feel your soul, soul poured into this piece. I feel your passion, your burning passion engulfed in flames. I feel your talent, your glistening talent waiting to be discovered.

>>19506075
wtf?

>>19506073
Okay I'll take your word for it but I'm tired of the Switch. My favorite RPG is War of Two Worlds, an RPG Maker game with less than 50 downloads.

>>19506078
I mean you could use simpler words and achieve a just as powerful effect

>>19506042
You’ll have to write out the script and post that for critique then. I think the set pieces have the potential to be good if the dialogue is good but you haven’t really posted any of that. I know it’s not helpful but idc about a type of space plot I just want a good plot. Thinking in genre of plot is how to end up creating something that’s just a copy imo.

>>19506095
Blacksouls is probably the best written JRPG in the last decade so I would recommend checking that out if you haven't.

>>19506098
Yeah, I understand. desu I just enjoy using certain language. I love playing around with word and language and all that. it's so fun. also sometimes my mind just pops up with a word and it feels just right to me

I appreciate your comments mate, thanks

>>19506075
was this a somewhat sincere response anon?

>>19505431
It’s not that good and needs more original ideas.

This thread in particular reeks of teenagers
You should all be ashamed, and most of you banned

>>19505505
>Why the fuck should I know the donut steel meme
Holy fucking underage

>>19506243
Yeah, most of 4ch is teenagers and college age-to-40yo incels acting like teenagers.

/lit/ is a place for seething mid 20s incels to role-play as retired college professors.

Don’t come in here and spoil our illusion, we worked very hard on it.

Here's some stuff I'm working on.

1. A man pays a prostitute for the girlfriend experience, then spends most of their time together driving around town and talking about all the stuff that's happened to him in all the places they visit. He's planning on killing himself after fucking her.
2. An up and coming lawyer tries to take on internet piracy with a mass-letter campaign, sending people letters demanding they pay up or else. A vain man, he googles his own name to see if this campaign has made him into a celebrity of any kind, and to his horror discovers he has become a laughing stock at an anonymous imageboard, where the people have not only uncovered his embarrassing past but are also looking into the legal gray areas his company is engaged in.
3. A group of people living in the late 19th century find themselves aboard a train with no staff. The train brings them to a station in the middle of a dark, forbidding forest, with evidence of previous inhabitants but no sign of anyone present. They discover drinking the water here makes people forget things. Some argue they are in the afterlife, some argue this is some grand social experiment. The decision on what to do splinters the group as some seek to escape into the woods, others seek to get the train started again and others still try to make new lives for themselves in the abandoned houses around the station.
4. A nomad warrior recounts his violence-filled life and how he ended up becoming the Judas-figure of a new religion.

>>19506415
>>19506415
>>19506415

New Thread

>>19503479
I like this a lot anon. The sentence structure really emphasizes the mindset of the character in terms of viewing things through a simple, measured, and to-the-point lens.

>>19504929
>Sorry for taking so long,
I had assumed you had already forgotten so waking up to a paragraph of praise was like finding a $5 on the ground.