/lit/ - Literature

>>19463399
I have literally zero idea of anything Erasmus did besides writing In Praise of Folly, and i'll bump it by giving the uneducated opinion that he probably wanted something better but ML got filtered.

>>19463399
Martin Luther was also inspired by Augustine so I guess Augustine should be considered complicit in the Reformation too then

>>19463449
Well, he was responsible for the wrongful condemnation of Pelagius

>>19463449
Saint Augustine was not in mortal life during Erasmus' and Luther's age.

Jesus Christ christian intellectual larping is so cringe

Erasmus and Luther debated Luther's proposals openly in print.

The more you learn about Catholicism in the Middle Ages, the more you realize how hazy the boundaries are between "intra-ecclesiastical reform" and "proto-Lutheranism." The energies that Luther unleashed were old, old energies that the Church had succeeded in pushing beneath the surface again and again for centuries. There is a line connecting Luther, Savonarola, Jan Hus, all the way back to Wycliffe and the Lollards, the Waldensians, Arnold of Brescia, and even the mendicant orders. The popularity of Francis of Assisi was so intense that the church had to "integrate" the energies he represented even if they had mixed feelings about acknowledging impromptu charismatic authority.

Erasmus preached moderation because he knew what Luther's radicalism represented, a paradigm crisis in the church where anybody could claim to represent the "true" interpretation of scripture. Erasmus wasn't happy with the church either, nobody really was, but he was a representative of the "better the devil you know" and "let's do it through slow reform, not schisms" positions.

>>19463399
knowing greek is so fucking based, bros

Nightmare.

>>19463399
All that really matters is that he allowed God to use him in production of the Textus Receptus so that God's final written word could come to fruition in the King James Bible.

bump

>>19464087
I feel like the actual Reformation began with the Hussites if anything but we don't really talk about it because the Czechs are irrelevant af.

>>19465469
I think the main factor is that the Hussites were totally destroyed in the early 17th century and Czechia was re-catholicized, so their ability to defend themselves, writher their own histories, and to explain/develop their beliefs was destroyed.

>>19463399
He was accused of that all the time after Worms despite actively going out of his way to demonstrate how much papal dick he sucked
Reform much like the word, revolution, means going back to basics if you pay the slightest attention to the parts of the words and that's how it was understood back then
The church had been in perpetual reform ever since Polycarp
>>19464087
I'm trying to think which worthless outdated trite you read before spewing this nonsense
Erasmus never preached moderation, he was a very dogmatic and narcissistic man that never took disagreement easily
The only reason he seems moderate is because he made the choice to stick to the church when the reformation began and he went emo about how ebil luderino was
Most people didn't give a flying fuck about the church because they didn't go
They were perfectly content with their wise wizards and feast days as the only substantial interaction with the church
Most people got perfectly along within the system of the Catholic church
The tripartite deal between Albrecht, the pope and Fugger which sent Tetzel to Wurttemberg is proof of this, it was a very workable system that constantly changed to go along with the times
The reformation was a very peculiar instance of the personalities of Luther and Freddy of Saxony coinciding at the same place, at the right time, in the right political system, with the correct technology that had just emerged
It was an incredibly improbable event that the one hyper conservative elector happened to be a big fan of the first amendment because he was bullied in university by the libtards and Martin Luther lived at the same time in the same place.
Savonarola and his ilk were a dime a dozen and the only reason we remember him is because the reformation happened so close to his own times.
The Catholic church, as with any racket of its kind, could absorb most things but so much happened at the same time and by what individuals, the reformation was a star studded cast if there ever was one.
But the one thing that's certain is that there were no hazy boundaries
There were your run of the mill reformers
And then there were THE reformers
The reason morons like you get confused is the disappearance of the word from Catholic vocabulary once the reformation snatched then name
>>19466748
Meh, nobody remembers Bucer either despite the fact that Strasbourg protestants wrote their histories plenty and they were incredibly important
The reason nobody remembers the Hussites is because connecting them to the reformation is connecting two completely unrelated dots
Why the Hussites anyways?
Why not the Bogomils or any other such group
They were entirely unremarkable for their own time
The only reason we remember them is because they happened to exist when the reformation began

>>19468423
>Meh, nobody remembers Bucer either despite the fact that Strasbourg protestants wrote their histories plenty and they were incredibly important
Aren't they part of the larger german reformation, though? That is kind of remembered, though I guess it's often conflated with the spread of luther's teachings.
>Why the Hussites anyways? Why not the Bogomils or any other such group
Well I used hussites very badly and meant it as a imprecise catchall term for the religious movements in czech speaking lands in which the hussites were the dominant bloc/faction. If I'm not mistaken the hussites over time became more tepid as it became institutionalized over centuries, even though they never matched the bogomil's radicalism. But my knowledge of the period is patchy desu
>They were entirely unremarkable for their own time
Theologically? But they basically were lutherans avant la lettre, which was pretty remarkable for happening a century earlier... They also mixed political and religious revolution together by overthrowing a king, isn't that pretty remarkable?

>>19463399
Why was Erasmus never canonized into sainthood? He was extremely influential especially in the Netherlands.

>>19468606
Probably because of his influences in Luther, and that he did not defend Christianity as much as the Church expected.

>>19468598
excuse me, I had the taborites and neo-adamites in mind, the bogomils were neo-gnostics from the balkans that are said to have influenced the cathars in southern france.

>>19463399
>Given the fact that heretic pseudochristian Martin Luther once stated that he was inspired by St.Augustine, is it then patent to say that he was involved in heresy too?
you

>>19468423
>He was accused of being a heretic after Worms despite sucking papal dick
And Lord knows he did suck a lot of dick

>>19464100
Favorite verse?