/lit/ - Literature

>>19439835
Not really? Degeneracy is just a fancy buzzword for "thing I don't like"
The only real ethic is the one of non-aggression since everyone can agree on and can be followed be everyone at any time or culture. Anything else is cope.

>>19439835
>Is degeneracy even real objectively speaking? Or morals?

Yes. See: Nikocado.

>>19439842
Based Schuonposter.

>>19439835
>Is degeneracy even real objectively speaking? Or morals?
Nope, read Foucault

>>19439835
Kinda. Degeneracy is what happens when the morals you set are not being respected anymore.

>>19439860
You are half-right. Yes degen is a meme word, but it has meaning and value if said society had built in morals that people start degrading.

>>19439835
All degeneracy causes disease.

>>19439875
>ugh it sucks that we aren’t allowed to do whatever is most physically pleasurable because of morality
>I’m going to ignore morality
>*has huge amounts of gay sex*
>take that morality
>*dies from AIDS*
Foucault in fact disproved himself

>>19439893
>death means you are wrong
At least he died doing what he loved.
Imagine living like a sheep in slave mentality your whole life, punishment worse than death 2bh.

>>19439893
>Foucault in fact disproved himself
Lol he didn't, he wouldn't care about your biological reductionism in the slightest

>>19439875
>The soul is the prison of the body.
The Orphics said the same thing 2500 years ago.

Weird how people think scepticism is some kind of evil modern thing when it was held by Cicero, Sextus Empiricus, Montaigne, etc.

>>19439835
>objectively speaking
As in deteriorating genes? If so then no. There does not seem to be an actual conclusive basis for it. Moreover you can see that the idea of degeneracy has a moral foundation in that what is considered "degenerate" is often a reflection of the values of a group regardless of whether it improves or harms society in any tangible way.

>>19439893
>implying viruses have a moral cause for existing

>>19439908
Cool

>>19439893
By that logic the government should force people to take the vaccine, right?

>>19439842
Based retard

>>19439899
Homosexuality is a punishment that God sends upon idolaters (Rom. 1:26-28). No one who engages in it is truly happy, as they are in rebellion against God and are not fulfilling their telos as humans.

>>19439893
Libtard tier argument

>>19439959

>>19439959
Reading this as I get rimmed by my boyfriend.

>>19439969
One need only observe their behavior in modern society to know that homosexuality is the domain of utter depravity.
>>19439971
Enjoy hell

>>19439880
>vigilante justice
>ritual sacrifice
>disciplinary action
>self defence
I assume you mean the bare minimum non agression to not descend into anarchy? Even then, from the fact that something hurts or dissolves society you cannot infer that it is objectively wrong

>>19439969
Are you into Death in June, anon?

>>19439959
Is that why all His priests are extremely gay?

>>19439974
>One need only observe their behavior in modern society to know that homosexuality is the domain of utter depravity.
Why do children raised by homosexual couples do just as well and in some respects better than those raised by human and woman…

>>19439980
Catholics are idolaters so that would be in accord with Romans.

Morals are beyond the objective, i.e. empirical. Though, I'm unsure what use morals are to a materialist when they have no foundation.

>>19439974
>>One need only observe their behavior in modern society to know that homosexuality is the domain of utter depravity.
>This makes me feel bad therefore it's bad
Literally not an argument

>>19439983
>secular measurement of well-being
Modern women who can't get through a day without antidepressants are also "doing well."

>>19439978
Give me a quick rundown

>>19439992
I'm not making an argument. I am telling you a fact.

>>19439985
Protestant ministers and Orthodox clergy are gay as well. In general, gays are more in-touch with spirtuality than heterosexuals.

>>19439993
>Modern women who can't get through a day without antidepressants are also "doing well."
What? I doubt any statistical survey says that. Do you enjoy basing your worldview on speculations and intuitions? You believe that God is Truth and yet you take such a flimsy attitude toward that divine attribute of his

>>19439975
Meant >>19439860

>>19439975
I'm saying that I agree that objectively speaking, non-aggression is the only needed rule. As long as you don't hurt anyone else you are free to do what you want, and if someone hurts you, you can fight back.
However, if a society already built upon this moral base, wants to also make it a thing that people can only marry if they are virgins and sex outside marriage is bad, while this moral is objectively irrelevant, by this society own morals they built on its a valid one, and if people started to break it they would be technically be degenerates by said society.

>>19439969

disregarding "morality": from the perspective of health and fitness, degeneracy, the state of degenerating or degeneration obviously exists.
People can behave in ways that cause their bodies to degenerate into ill health, disease, weakness, and so forth.
There's also some phonetic and probably linguistic relation between the words "moral" (morality, morals, etc.) and the word "morale" as in confidence, enthusiasm, and so on.
Seeing people in your community behave in ways that are physically degenerative, say a person is addicted to drugs, and watching them play out their illness on the streets would obviously effect the morale of the community.
just memes i guess i dunno what the fuck i'm typing

>>19439835
And then suddenly, one day, for no reason at all

>>19440091
oy gevalt!

>>19440120
I think people miss the mark here - the issue is not Judaism or Jews per se, the issue is the highest form of moral degenracy that is religious plularism.

>>19439893
Based

>>19440004
You've yet to show any stats here buddy.

>>19439893
Ultrabasado. Midwits BTFO

>>19439969
They hate him because he speaks the truth.

>>19440003
I'm sure American new age protestant churches are quite gay indeed. They're still gonna go to hell unless they repent

>>19439835
Morality is real if you want it to be, see Critique of Practical Reason.

Degeneracy is just deviation from optimal social patterns. In other words, doing things that if everyone did would result in society being slightly worse off. For example, if everyone smokes cigarettes, the air will be slightly lower quality, slightly more people will have cancer, etc.

>>19439835
yes lit is going to solve one of the perennial philosophical problems right in this thread.

fucking retard

>>19439975
You make a good point, I actually agree with you in almost everything.
The Golden Rule of non-aggression is the only objective moral tho, so people who don't follow it are the real degenerates.
Whether or not you agree on the Golden Rule is another debate.

>>19440000
Deegeets

>>19440222
do you eat meat..

>>19440222
Checked. Yeah, I remain theoretically unconvinced by its objectivity even though I apply it in practice everyday

>>19440233
I would love to hear an argument against it.
You phisically can't make an argument against the Golden Rule, unless you are arguing in bad faith, because by just debating with anyone you are already using the Golden Rule, by trying to make a deal without resorting to aggression.
If you don't believe in the Golden Rule, you would just be a savage, and take what you want by force, and you are free to test for yourself how far you, or any society, can go by behaving like that.

>>19440377
>You phisically can't make an argument against the Golden Rule, unless you are arguing in bad faith, because by just debating with anyone you are already using the Golden Rule, by trying to make a deal without resorting to aggression.
>If you don't believe in the Golden Rule, you would just be a savage, and take what you want by force, and you are free to test for yourself how far you, or any society, can go by behaving like that.
I think there are several fallacies at play in your thinking here but I can't be bothered to find out what they are.

>>19440029

>>19440132
I think you missed the joke.

>>19439835
Yes, read Brentano.

>>19439835
>Is degeneracy even real objectively speaking? Or morals?
No, unless you believe in some God or another, in which case moral is whatever he says it is, without question

>>19440377
>by just debating with anyone you are already using the Golden Rule, by trying to make a deal without resorting to aggression.
Negative proofs, like this one, are not sufficient reason to posit a positive objective moral principle, but rather a rhetorical strategy by which one tries to show the impracticality of not upholding the principle. Not enough to be a proof by impossibility. To be sure, the fact that something is impractical (in relation to effort or habit) or degenerative of society doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Not a refutation, but a justification for my skepticism

>>19440183
>stop thinking! Just trust the expert!

>>19439835
>real objectively speaking
Is anything real objectively speaking? The complete description of reality is a subject-object diode. Nothing is truly real unless there is something to experience it and confirm that it exists. This is especially and doubly true for anything concerning intersubjective topics such as morality, which arise solely from the interactions of conscious agents. If my "objective" you mean matter and energy and stuff like that, of course not. It's just inanimate stuff

>>19440377
>you are free to test for yourself how far you, or any society, can go by behaving like that.
So I should follow the golden rule because I get punished if I don't? Europe ignored the golden rule and got pretty far with colonising the world.

>>19439860
>The only real ethic is the one of non-aggression
I think degenerates should be expelled from communities.

>>19439835
Honestly I think if someone is so unlikable no woman wants to be with that person and they have no friends that's pretty degenerated

>>19439959
Jesus was sent only to save Jews (Matt 15:24).
>>19439860
>says NAP is only ethic
>violates it with pic related

>>19439975
And even then, societies aren't equal. Are all societies worthy of existence as they are?

>>19440132
If there was only one religion it would grow corrupt and gluttonous.

>>19439835
>objectively
no, unless your meter for objectivity is in the concept of the zeitgeist.
>subjectively
yes
degeneracy is real insofar that it is antithesis to your culture. the main concept of degeneracy is probably linked to western paleocons so the chief idea of degeneracy is anyone antithetical to paleocon ideology.
there is irony in calling yourself a logical person while also applying general rules without exception that ignore direct causation and abide by correlation. a paleocon that admits eschewing logicality for pure culture warring would be more consistent but people love their intellectualism.

>>19440895 (samefag)
>general rules without exception
aka rule-utilitarianism. this abiding by correlation can only make sense in prioritization of culture over logicality, but I can only imagine that most paleocons (and paleocon adjacent) value their sense of logicality as they want to appear as a worthy fighter in the arena of intellectualism for some reason, which is gay as shit.

>>19439860
I pray a nigger bashes your skull in for no reason

>>19440029
>trannies can now click a button and bomb you
The future is now.

>>19440162
HAHAHAHAHA
FUCKING FAGGOT

>>19439842
In retrospect the only thing worth reading on this board are snippets of actual works

>>19439959
>homosex is sent upon idolaters
>1 billion pajeets,shinto and other pagan idolaters still reproducing

>>19439860
If I rape your child. would you not consider my entire being degenerate?

>>19440996
>if I cause you extreme subjective pain does that make your feelings about me objective

>>19441015
Sorry, I didn't word that well, if we're going by the strictest definition of objective, nothing except math and logic will, so in this case I talked about standard, instructive, morals construed by the ancients. Which, in application of my example, is clearly violated.

>>19441048
Which morals construed by which ancients? There are many ancients and they do not all agree with each other. Especially given the widespread pedophilia in antiquity.

>>19441054
I'm talking about christian morality, with that said, morals vary by views but there should be, to an extent, an agreement between the differing parties.

>>19440964
Correct. That or good-faith book recs