/lit/ - Literature

>>19413664
I mean it’s all obviously bullshit and people just play into it as if it has any real world relevance or impact because they like to play pretend. Or they have power complexes and are socially retarded. Basically all the same reasons you end up with Orthotards and Catholicucks

>>19413664
That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis, and The Man Who Was Thursday by G.K. Chesterton.

>>19413701
Forgot to add,
Anything by Malachi Martin, I've only read Hostage to the Devil but I'm excited to read his fictions, from what I've heard they could be classified as ''anti-occult''.

>>19413693
>as if it has any real world relevance or impact because they like to play pretend
oh... but it does anon, it does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI0kUZ6VFik

>>19413664
lmao what a triggered hylic

>>19413732
/thread

>>19413693
>just play into it as if it has any real world relevance or impact because they like to play pretend.
If only this was true

>>19413664
Just look at any occultist and you will have all the proof you need that their teachings are worthless and self destructive

Against Heresies by St. Irenaeus is the first and best book against runaway esotericism.

>>19413664
That's called counter-religion.

>>19413664
The God's delusion

>>19413664
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vRVQD4FKPrY

Occult is just an opening for demons. Do not get into it. Just look up people who did, your life ends in shambles.

Adorno: Theses against occultism

The tendency to occultism is a symptom of regression in consciousness. This has lost the power to think the unconditional and to endure the conditional. Instead of defining both, in their unity and difference, by conceptual labour, it mixes them indiscriminately. The unconditional becomes fact, the conditional an immediate essence. Monotheism is decomposing into a second mythology. ‘I believe in astrology because I do not believe in God’, one participant in an American socio-psychological investigation answered.

By its regression to magic under late capitalism, thought is assimilated to late capitalist forms. The asocial twilight phenomena in the margins of the system, the pathetic attempts to squint through the chinks in its walls, while revealing nothing of what is outside, illuminate all the more clearly the forces of decay within.

>>19414345
>conceptual labour

>>19413664

>>19413664
Pic related looks like it's just depicting the unity of all things on heaven and Earth. I don't understand why that needs to be debunked.

>>19413664
St Augustine's Confessions. Augustine was into occult mystery religions until he realized his master was a charlatan who didn't really know anything.

When I was really heavily into occult reading I started having bizarre experiences, sometimes almost pleasant but often very unpleasant and truly nerve wracking. They got worse and worse until I decided I needed to take a break from all the occult stuff and all these symptoms just vanished practically overnight.

>>19414171
Occult is such a broad term. I don’t see how it can be accurate to say all occultism is an opening for demons. However, >>19414490 is me and based on my own experiences with some occult reading I am inclined to believe that certain strains that can be considered contained within the occult labeled container may, in fact, be what you describe as demonic. What the demonic really is, I’m not sure.

The God delusion

>>19413693
>Basically all the same reasons you end up with Orthotards and Catholicucks

The two groups occultists and trad Christians kinda feed off of each other as enemies too. From the outside it just looks like a nerd fight desu

Guenon is somebody who advocates for esotericism but also hates occultism, and there are people who tend to conflate the two into being the same thing. For guenon Esotericism is the path to intellectual identity via the soul with pure Being, it has ascending degrees of realization much like the allegory of Plato's cave.

Occultism as guenon sees it are derivations of either Theosophy as founded by Blavatsky and ultimately spread into being the intellectual influence to a bunch of new age movements.

Or derivations of spiritually dead Traditions of which most of their teachings even if at one point were metaphysically valid and had esoteric possibilities, are now perverted to whatever surviving sciences and rituals that were attached to that tradition which now only furnish the possibility of it's adherents in a "lower" direction if you will. It in a sense has become an inversion of esotericism proper, where instead of ascending into pure Being, they descend into oblivion.

The first example is what guenon would call pseudo-initiation and the second being called counter-initiation.

In general the answer I remember guenon giving when it comes to warning people against occultism is that when you attach yourself to these vectors of spirit you ultimately furnish a possibility in a purely infernal direction, that even with the help of a purely active mentality that a magician possesses (which is superior to the passive mentality that say a medium possesses), the forces they deal with will ultimately overwhelm them leaving their minds shattered and their souls lost for eternity. Which is a sad fate since occultism does tend to be a slippery slope, but hopefully a few words of warning should be enough to dissuade people who are not far down that path.

This is a pretty vague recollection of his ideas that comes mostly from his Reign of Quantity as well as Initiation and Spiritual Realization, so of course I'm leaving a lot of nuance out because this format isn't really conducive to an academic level discussion, so if you want to know more then I suggest you look there.

>>19414688
>words words words
And most of them are mental gymnastics too

>>19414688
Good post

>>19414435
That's the thing with occultism. Nobody can be a "master" of it cause the information about it is almost non existent, hence occult. These masters just larp as experts by claiming they've been "divinely inspired" and always get exposed as liars. Blavatsky and other theosophists are a good example of frauds.

I do believe in occult powers though and that it's possible to increase one's powers of manifestation of material things by means of magik spells and shit. One of those clown faggots Island Boys admitted to having sold his soul recently and wished for fame and money (which is coming true as they have gained world wide recognition and sponsors and shit)

>>19413664
it's just aesthetics

>>19413664
how do you debunk a piece of artwork?

>>19414688
Esotericism and occultism literally mean the same thing
There was also little difference between the Theosophists and the Traditionalists, they were both orientalists trying to re-enchant the world with exotic mysticism distorted through their western understanding

>>19414936
>These masters just larp as experts by claiming they've been "divinely inspired" and always get exposed as liars.
Welcome to religion

>>19415346
What he means by "esotericism" is mysticism and "occult" is magic.

>>19415346
>theosophists were similar to Traditionalists
One a pseudoreligion the other simply a study of similar metaphysics. Theosophists tried to rewrite the old doctrines while traditionalists see the old doctrines as sacred

>being ANTI-occult

>>19414490
Yeah this is real. When I started reading succubus threads on /x/ and obsessing over them, I actually felt one manifest in my life, i.e. waking up and feeling a spirit clinging to me, or feeling random arousal or feelings of love out of nowhere. When I started doing daily occult rituals, I could feel electrical/magnetic "energy" sensations in my body while meditating, and sometimes entered weird states of consciousness feeling intense vibrations in my body along with loud roaring in my ears, once leading to an "astral projection" type experience. But when I lost interest and returned to old habits for several months, the experiences mostly disappeared. They weren't really unpleasant for me though. Terrifying at first when I woke up and felt something wrapped around my body, but the spirit (whether it was an actual spirit or some weird function of the subconscious) seemed to love me and meant well for me.

>>19415255
this
occultism is kino

>>19414372
This literally a Hegel quote ("Arbeit des Begriffes"). This is nothing to mock, its serious. Look it up

>>19414688
Decent post, indecent picture.

>>19416153
what's wrong with Patchouli?

>>19413693
Thank you for your opinion, very insightful. Now recommend books or suck my cock faggot.

>>19413664
Read Jiddu Krishnamurti

It usually winds up just being pedos larping

>>19414688
Good post

>>19413664
The Confusion Of Tongues: A Review Of Modern Isms by Charles W. Ferguson.

An oldie but a goodie. You'll learn the rules of cults; how they are formed, what basic concepts the hold in common, and how they persist.

>17:XVIII SPARK OF HIS LIGHT.--Light is used as a synonym for spiritual knowledge and evolution since, to the seer, the spirit or Solar Principle of man is at certain times actually visible as a light that " true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." 1 The spirit of the average man or woman exists, as it were, in embryo only, and appears as a dim and tiny light at some distance above the head. In the Master this light, developed, is visible as an elongated cleft flame extending upward from the centre of the forehead. This flame ever the distinctive mark of all highly evolved beings who are able to manifest and to keep in touch with their divine consciousness while in the physical body. Such were the flames, those "cloven tongues like as of fire," 2 which descended at Pentecost upon the heads of the twelve Apostles, who went out from that degree of Initiation qualified to do Master works.

>The Christ, Melchizedek, and other high priests of humanity, in whom the Divine Principle has evolved to the supreme point manifestable on earth, are able to make visible to their disciples the spiritual or Solar Body, and to appear when they so desire, "clothed with the sun."
We read that Christ led Peter, James and John" up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them:

>and his face did shine as the sun, and his
>raiment was white as the light." >3The words
>"For the Lord thy God is a consuming
>fire," 4
and
>"He maketh the spirits
>His angels, His ministers a flaming fire" 5
are literally true.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cdg/cdg04.htm

bump

>>19413664
>as long as it destroys "hidden knowledge" it'll be fine
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

>>19414136
Fuck him and Justin Martyr.

God and the mysteries of all creation fall under the broad term occult anon.

What your thoughts are on Jesus having teachings for the public vs teachings for his trusted disciples? On one hand he taught basic parables to the masses and all who wished to hear his message, and on the other he had secret, hidden (occult) teachings for his disciples.

Luke 8:10
>And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand

>"Every time you find in our books a tale, the reality of which seems impossible, a story which repugnant both to reason and common sense, then be sure that tale contains a profound allegory veiling a deeply mysterious truth; and the greater the absurdity of the letter the deeper the wisdom of the spirit." RABBI MOSES MAIMONIDES.
>inb4 jew

>>19414345
How can one man be so based?

>>19413732
based

>>19413693
occult and cult are not the same you table lamp

>>19414688
Good post

>>19415346
They are not at all the same, but I can see how somebody who knows nothing about them would think that they are the same.

>>19421522
>jewish schizo glowie pathologizing normal behaviour in europeans is le based
Go back to r*ddit and kill yourself.

>>19414345
He is really good at saying nothing but making it sound intellectual.

It has its birth in the earth, its strength it doth acquire in the fire...

>>19413664
>What are some books warning against occult teachings/knowledge?
>Basically anything that debunks pic related is what I'm after.
These two requirements contradict each other. If a work warns against occult knowledge, then it acknowledges that it has real power. If a work debunks occult knowledge as LARP, then it doesn’t warn against it just ridicules it.

>>19415799
so many of those threads on /x/

i wonder how common what you experienced, or something like it, is?

>>19414345
>his has lost the power to think the unconditional and to endure the conditional. Instead of defining both, in their unity and difference, by conceptual labour, it mixes them indiscriminately. The unconditional becomes fact, the conditional an immediate essence.
It's actually the opposite. There are still myriad issues with occultism but this doesn't even intimate a criticism.

>>19413693
>Just be a faggot materialist like me

>>19413664
The Plot Against The Church
Occultism is nothing but a kabbalist trap set by the Jews.

>>19414688
Guenon and Evola were freemasons
>>19414166
>>19414385
>>19414561
Atheism and occultism are both branches of masonic philosophy meant to pull modern man in either direction away from Christ.

>>19423155
>Guenon and Evola were freemasons
Evola wasn't at all. Guenon was but not really. It is so funny when brainlet christards try getting deep into spirituality, you make yourselves look like fools. Fuck freemasonry though.

>>19423317
Evola had too many masonic associates and his "tradition" is too masonic in character to deny any influence. Guenon was a initiated mason who LARPed as a pajeet and then LARPed as a sandnigger.
>brainlet christards
Says the fag pretending to he a wizard.

>>19423140
Isn't the Church still a corruption of Judaism?

>>19423365
Judaism is a corruption if the Israelite religion which became Christianity.

>>19423336
He broke off the UR group from other masons because he hated masonry so much, he was openly hostile towards it and called it a tool of the jews. You have no idea what you're talking about, you're a low info religious zealot spouting so much nonsense ("tradition" is too masonic in character," lol, i would ask you to elaborate so you can humiliate yourself some more but you'll just ignore my request); you read the bible and go to church, that doesn't mean anything when it comes to true spirituality. Hermetic adepts go to "heaven" and are one with God every night, not that you could even begin to understand what that means. You do not "know" through experience, you have blind faith, which leads to delusion and deception, which are tools of "satan"; you are an unwitting accomplice of his, sowing falsehood and confusion because of your false ego.

>>19423416
>I graduated top of my class from the Navy SEALs etc...
Sure, fag. Evola was still just an ex-Mason playing dress-up, just like you.

>>19423438
>no argument and doubling down on mental retard take
>gay anime shit
You're pretty stupid. Is that you logo? Don't lie about reading Evola next time, you dumb commie subhuman grifter.

>>19423446
What was I supposed to argue against? You confusing feeling for knowledge? Evola never created a coherent system of anything, and for hating the masons, he sure cribbed a lot from them. You occultist faggots just playing into the hands of the jews and sowing your own spiritual confusion.

>>19414136
>>19420315
Bless him and St. Justin Martyr

>>19423458
>repeating your low-info opinion some more
You're a retard, logo. You know nothing about spirituality, Evola, or even masonry it appears, since you're claiming it is the same as Traditionalism. Evola wrote many articles calling it a tool of jews, saying it was counter-tradition, is evil, etc., but that isn't good enough for you, because you're too stupid/profane to penetrate things beyond vague religious forms. How would you know if Evola created a coherent system or not, you dumb religitard? And btw, he didn't create anything, he was simply expounding ancient esoteric doctrines as closely as possible. Which is extremely coherent, but you wouldn't know.

My grandma who goes to church is more spiritually enlightened than you, stay out of esoteric threads.

>>19423510
Evola took the Arthurian stories, de-Christianized them out of autism, threw in some masonic and pajeet shit for pseudo-depth and called it a day.
>My grandma who goes to church is more spiritually enlightened than you
And you by the sounds of it.

>>19423535
>de-Christianized them out of autism,
The christian elements were added on to a far older European legend, which exists in other ancient civilisations, it is fundamentally non-christian. You are so stupid. Please explain to me the masonic and indian elements he added to the grail, logo, you fucking dumbass

>>19413664
The vast majority of anti-occult material is either Christcuck retardation or Randi/Shermer-tier skeptical superficialities about astrology/numerology/bullshit.
Nothing I've read really drives home the point that occultists spend years reading escapist books to accumulate limp factoids that don't translate to anything actionable. All these occultists are just wordswordswordswordswords windbags offering nothing but boring mythological minutiae a three-digit IQ can't relate to and ceremonial daydreaming activities such as the LBRP, MP, etc. None of the shit works for anything useful and is at best sensationalized psychotherapy.

>>19423551
The Arthurian Tales that Evola took from were specifically created within a Christian context and could not exist without it.
Evola's philosophy is nothing but esoteric pajeet shit. No wonder he ran cover for Kalergi.

>>19423584
>Atheists calling anybody cucks
You stupid faggots are the reason this occult shit took off in the first place.
There's a reason it only gets popular in fedoranigger countries.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150430152709/https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122178219865054585

>>19423590
There you go ignoring everything, refusing to substantiate your own point, and then doubling down with your idiot opinion. You are so stupid dude, you have no idea what you're talking about too, which is why you cannot go into any depth whatsoever. Explain to me how pulling the sword from the stone to identify a king, or having a wizard/druid guide you, or how the sacred draught of immortality (also found in numerous ither traditions predating christianity by millenia), or the sacred isle of Avalon (land of immortal heroes) is christian. These are far older than christianity, you're unironically a fucking brainlet.

I'll also ask you again how Evola introduced masonic and indian elements into grail lore. Please explain these things to me logo, you fucking dumb queer.

>>19423615
Occultism is just degenerated offshoots of esoteric/initiatic knowledge which all ancient civilisations worthy of the name had, reserved for he upper castes.

>>19423615
Thanks for the response, but I don't take Christcucks and their absurd desert cult seriously.

>>19423633
Have you ever read any of the Arthurian Legends, the Vulgate Cycle, the Perlesvaus, or have you only seen the sword in the stone?
>I'll also ask you again how Evola introduced masonic and indian elements into grail lore
I never said he did in the first place, read my post again you illiterate faggot.
>>19423640
>offshoots of esoteric/initiatic knowledge which all ancient civilisations worthy of the name had
No, that's just what some gay italians and Jews in the renaissance told themselves to make their LARP feel real.
Point is fedora fags are all hypocrites and take up palm reading as soon as they stop going to church.

>>19423652
>desert cult
You mean like the one you cunts are getting replaced by?

>>19423658
Wait, you're a "racially conscious" Christcuck? Oh boy, it's basically a self-own.

>>19423674
Atheists have no consciousness. You are the perfect goyim.

>>19423681
>goyim.
(KJV John 4) "How is it that thou, being a (((Jew))), askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? [...] (((Jesus))) saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: (((we))) know what (((we))) worship: for salvation is of the (((Jews)))."
>inb4 desert-cult mental gymnastics

>>19423685
>using a modern translation
Stupid faggot.

>>19423685
Heh, "B-B-B-BUT THERE ARE BASED JEWS."

>>19423685
Yeah, we should listen to based and redpilled atheists instead.

>>19423653
>Have you ever read any of the Arthurian Legends, the Vulgate Cycle, the Perlesvaus, or have you only seen the sword in the stone?
Deflection. I've read all of the major ones and am highly interested in grail literature. You need to explain how those elements i mentioned are christian instead of pagan, you keep avoiding having to explain yourself, like a jew.
>I never said he did in the first place, read my post again you illiterate faggot.
You did right here>19423535

>>19423653
>No, that's just what some gay italians and Jews in the renaissance told themselves to make their LARP feel real.
So tantra, buddhism, hermeticism, the egytian mysteries, the greek mysteries, etc etc etc are all made-up by jews and italians? Wow you are an imbecile. Your exoteric, watered down religion is not objective metaphysical truth.

>>19423702
Mental gymnastics as expected.
The word Jew literally means 'of Judah', you knuckle-dragger, and even those mental gymnastics admit that Jesus was of Judah. Why? Because they have to thread the needle that the Messiah must be a Davidic Jew.
Jesus was a Jew, and the "infallible" KJV says so too.

>>19423713
>based
A black rapper.
>and redpilled
A black Morpheus from The Matrix.
The absolute state of /pol/tard Christkikes.

>Have you ever read any of the Arthurian Legends, the Vulgate Cycle, the Perlesvaus, or have you only seen the sword in the stone?
Deflection. I've read all of the major ones and am highly interested in grail literature. You need to explain how those elements i mentioned are christian instead of pagan, you keep avoiding having to explain yourself, like a jew.
>I never said he did in the first place, read my post again you illiterate faggot.
You did right here >>19423535

>>19423727
Does it say so in the original Hebrew/Greek as well?
You're on /lit/, you know how much translators fuck up.

it is very amusing when christians who have nly studied biblical works think they know anything about higher spiritual truths. it's like if a muslim came in and started telling everybody their side of the story. if you don't see how retarded you sound, or if you think guenon was full of shit, just stick to reading the bible, praying and going to church, stop trying to solve the mysteries of the universe, god forbids it anyway, otherwise you would have allowed esoteric orders in europe; instead, they all went underground.

>>19423336
Based

>>19423713
This retarded nigger acts like atheism is an organized religion where if some atheists do something like defending israel or trannies every other atheist have to do the same. Just shut the fuck up sandnigger death cult worshipper

Traditionalists are the incels of occultists

>>19423795
>seething religitard
Jesus would not be impressed

>>19423738
The Greek word was Ἰουδαῖος. The dispute is only whether it should be translated 'Jew' or 'Judean'. It's a dispute centered on Jesus' religious beliefs, not on his racial descent.

>>19423681
>94% of protestants are retarded
lel

>>19423817
>Anyone I don't like is religious

>>19423155
> and occultism
Wisdom is the key to everything. Pythagoras believed in a triune God. Plato's complete works describes Christ's sacrifice and resurrection twice.

>>19423155
Oh I forgot, the words in red also say

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. KJV

Truth is reached via wisdom, truth disarms any argument

>>19414345
Once more, but in English

>>19414345
>>19414688
What the fuck are youo talking about? What are you actually referring to? What specifically is this shit that you vaguely allude to?
Are occult teachings about learning to do magical spells? Are they about meditating yourself into another dimension? What the fuck are you actually referring to with all these terms and indirect sentences? Is it hidden knowledge about God? About physics? About the soul or spirit or something? And if so, what specifically?

>>19424264
You're seeing 'exhibit A' of >>19423584:
>occultists spend years reading escapist books to accumulate limp factoids that don't translate to anything actionable. All these occultists are just wordswordswordswordswords windbags offering nothing but boring mythological minutiae a three-digit IQ can't relate to and ceremonial daydreaming activities such as the LBRP, MP, etc. None of the shit works for anything useful

>>19423590
>No wonder he ran cover for Kalergi.
Can you elaborate on this?

>>19413664
Forget the author, but actor Christopher Lee had a friend that penned a book on the topic from a Roman Catholic lens that influenced him (regarding his 'occult library of over 5k books'). Any number of similar writings against Freemasonry around.

>>19414345
>X but with extra steps
A diseased mind is a broken clock

>>19415346
>Esotericism and occultism literally mean the same thing
Inaccessible vs. hidden/concealed away by design. An occultist won't show his cards when asked unless it's by a fellow traveler. An esotericist can be as candid as he likes -- if it falls on deaf ears, that's another issue.

>>19423336
>and his "tradition" is too masonic in character to deny any influence
What passes for 'masonic' varies wildly. Some could even be said to have a Mithraic, or Orphic character.

>>19423458
Selfie, Suicide is self-parodic self-insert. You weren't pretending to be retarded in it, and your act fools no one now. Go home carpetbagger

>>19423713
>Yeah, we should listen to based and redpilled atheists instead.
William Pierce is especially egregious-- the 'Nietzschean' gloss on what remains Sam Harris tier apostasy is unconvincing, and left oriented Last bugManisms will prevail, if only through being at least honest with themselves about their motivations, and a Varg is more convincing by dint of adjacency to that on the Epicure 'back to nature' end.

>>19415799
its called sleep paralysis and there is nothing supernatural about it

>>19414345

I love Adorno but holy shit, thats such a brainlett take.

The occult and the weird (wyrd) have always existed parallel to mainstray culture. Its not even most of the times an uncoditioned cause running parallel to monotheism , but a secondary effect of cultural output casting a shadow on mainstream narratives.

Somehow his Hegelian uncoditioned "occult" narrative is better than the lumpen "occult" narrative because its more philosophical and wordy, but there hardly is a difference. Kant , Schelling and Hegel read Swedenborg and condidered him a serious interlocutor. But somehow his big brained enlightened take trumps all of art and knoledge of the unkown for all time. This what neo-Hegelian brain rot does to your head.

>>19414345
>the chinks in its walls
ha ha

>>19424860
this.
>vibrations in my body along with loud roaring in my ears
classic symptoms of nigga falling asleep lmao

>>19415985
I am mocking Hegel as well, retard. I don't take Hegel seriously either.

>>19424860
>>19425605
I also experienced sleep paralysis, and that was something different. Many of my experiences happened while wide awake