/lit/ - Literature

>>19412932
I do think this is a symptom of mental decline. I would be very interested in how Chinese people respond to this question. I am willing to bet they'd be mostly 1s and 2s.

>>19412932
You cracked the case. That's it. Bravo anon, take a lap. Truly great work. I am so proud of you and your mother is too.

>>19412938
Chink here. 1 for me.

>>19412932
Close, literature is dead because of literacy. People who aren't mentally equipped to be able to read are, and force the market to the lowest common denominator.
Also, I'm a 1, but thought I was a 5 because I couldn't literally trick myself into hallucinating an apple. Imagine my shock when I found out people in 5 literally just think of words. Letters. Imagine what they would think of if they didn't know the alphabet. That's the state in which the should live.

>>19412932
I've always imagined images through the lens of memory. When I read "apple" my mind pictures the bowl of Gala apples my dad always kept on his dinner table for us to eat when I grew up.

>>19412932
The real test of cognitive abilities is mental rotation

>>19412932
this is so stupid. everyone is a 5, no one literally sees things unless you're a schizophrenic.

>>19412949
Are you in China or did you grow up there? It's not the race I'm interested in, it's the education system and society. I'm an Indian in the West, I'm a 2. I see a cartoon apple.

>>19412932
No. You're also a faggot if you think more people have had inner monologues before.
You probably believe they did because of stream of consciousness in /lit/'s fav books. It was nothing more than a narrative conceit popular for cutting edge artists of the modernist era used to open creative avenues for character exploration and storytelling.
It was never done for realism's (in the tolstoy sense of the word) sake. It was done for psychological realism.
Go run 5 miles and tell me you were thinking coherent words even half of the time and i'll tell you you're lying


That being said, part of it is that we live in such a visual age (at least in terms of art) that people can't visualize. Part of it is complex narratives vying for shorter attention spans.

>>19412953
1a 2b

I feel like the apple example is a weird one for people to latch to
I can picture in my head a perfectly detailed apple, especially by going from memory of what it feels/tastes like.
However, when picturing a face in a story it's more often a 2 or 3 since I have to make it from scratch going off the author's description

>>19412956
No, I'm a Chinese-American. Yeah, the US public education is awful, but my parents, being of the Chinese culture, raised me with high respect for intelligence and reading and educating the self outside school.

>>19412964
Similar to me, I guess. I also had an interest in reading stuff on my own, beyond school.

>>19412961
It's interesting. When you say "woman", I think of bits and pieces of a woman: the vague body shape of one, in a white dress, with curly long hair. But I have trouble imagining her face. I visualize "woman" from a perspective of being behind the figure.

>>19412938
I wouldn't be surprised if this is drug-related. Most people are walking around fucked up on pills every day; their brains are mush. I have a very vivid imagination but when my """""doctors""""" put me on antidepressants and benzos my mind became completely blank--no inner monologue, no visualization. Same for when I had a poor diet and wasn't being properly nourished. Got them back as soon I unfucked my shit up.

There's still hope for NPCs.

>>19412975
>think of bits and pieces of a woman
weird, I think of a feminine face and just assume the rest is that of a womans; unless of course I think of the hair and body and whatnot specifically

>>19412961
>going off the author's description
I feel like most people just imagine someone they've seen before with alterations. I have a hard time picturing someone I've never seen before. Thomas Harris is really light on descriptions, which I kind of like. He described the protagonist in one book as looking like a house-painter in a fed suit and I instantly pictured Pedro Pascal.

>>19412975
Yeah, picturing faces is a strange thing for me. I usually keep characters distinct by giving important distinction to the hair of each one, and when characters react in a certain way I can imagine a face making an expression, but it's usually just a face "template" I give to each character (with occasional exceptions, like if special attention is given to the shape of a character's nose in their introduction)

>>19412953
1A
2B

>>19412976
what’s truly concerning is how many don’t recognize the problem
like they hear about people with internal monologues and such and get genuinely weirded out
people who are scared of imagination are doomed

>>19413002
That's fucking weird, man. I watch old-timey radio shows and I close my eyes and have the whole thing play out in my mind's eye like a movie with cinematography and lighting and lip-synching and blocking and everything. Maybe the people who can't do this ruined their brains with ipads as toddlers or something.

>>19412988
>I feel like most people just imagine someone they've seen before with alterations
iirc the Human brain isn't capable of coming up with a realistic picture of an original human face

>>19413010
>people who are scared of imagination are doomed
I was watching an episode of the Breaking Bad behind-the-scenes podcast a few days ago and the show's writer and creator was absolutely baffled that his composer could hear music in his head. He also said he couldn't hear dialogue in his own when he wrote. Scary shit, man. And this is a seemingly creative, intelligent guy, too.

>>19413022
What kind of faces do you give the people you imagine? Are they all distinct or do they often overlap?
Now that I think about it, there are a few books with characters that I can easily give distinct faces to (usually when the character fits a certain "mold" or trope, like Lennie from Of Mice and Men or most major characters in Lord of the Flies).

>>19412956
Forget the apple anon.
You don't need to close your eyes either.
Just flip through the memories of your loved ones, places you've been, a bus passing you on the street, bumping into someone. Tell me those aren't 1s

>>19412932
1 but it blinks in and out

>>19413026
>the Human brain isn't capable of coming up with a realistic picture of an original human face
You have to be legit retarded to think this is true

You guys have internal monologues because you are poisoned with ressentment. You think all the time because you don’t have the power to act, and thus internalize your wish in the form of fantasy, often vengeful. Chad never thinks or had inner emotions, he’s simply an empty head turned towards the world, in a flow state, like a Greek warrior. In Greek stories, barely anybody had internal emotions or monologues. In medieval times people gathered around to watch a guy reading the Bible without reading the words out loud. They literally didn’t have reading in your head until like the 5th century. You think all these people were NPCs? No, you’re just a resentful inwardly facing little bitch who hates the world and life. It’s healthy to be out amidst the world rather than in your own head, scheming and thinking all the time. Cope harder.

>>19413049
>It’s healthy to be out amidst the world rather than in your own head
Post your certification and degree, doctor

>>19412976
Sertraline had the reverse effect, my imagination became so much vivid. Almost schizo-like, couldn't look at the clouds to much without images appearing in them.

I just fucking hate this world. And the human worms feasting on its corpus. My whole life is just cold, bitter hatred. And I always wanted to die violently. This is the time of vengeance and no life is worth saving. And I will put in the grave as many as I can. It's time for me to kill. And it's time for me to die. My genocide crusade begins here

>>19412953
can people really not do this?

>>19412932
I think it has something to do with fluoride, there's no way there's such a drastic decline in mental ... what would you call it... I mean it's literally just mental presence

>>19412932
Couldn't this just be that they don't realize that they're imagining an apple? Like they don't recognize that they're imagining.

>>19413043
Those are 1s. Hell, I can walk through places I've been. I remember everything about this office building I worked in, about my uni and high school, etc. .

>>19413054
Woah, easy there, bud.

>>19413052
My own instincts and self evident experience, retard. Read the Genealogy of Morals if you want a more scholarly source.

>>19413054
Why kill those who (supposedly) enjoy life instead of just ending your own when you're no longer enjoying it?

>>19413061
Put the apple in one of those environments then, is it still a cartoon apple? I think you just imagine it as a cartoon because it's in an unreal world, you're kind of accidentally imagining an unreal-appearing apple. If you put it in a "real" environment you may visualize it as a 1 apple.

>>19413061
I feel like a red apple is actually a bad test. Tell people to imagine a face of someone they know, and you'll get more 1s and 2s from them

>>19412932
I have thousand book read and I am strongly 5 on picture.

I suspect 1 and 2 mostly read genre fiction and young adult novels

If your 5 are you even human? Like what the fuck? You're telling me you can't imagine something as simple as an apple? Get outta here!

>>19413069
Human scum; they've always felt so fucking safe inside their homes. Surrounded by the possessions gathered their whole lives. So weak, so fragile, they don't deserve a natural death unconsciously waiting to be obliterated by my Hatred. Those parasites think their walls can save them, but I will destroy everything they own and everything they are.
>>19413063
Can you hear your guardian angel crying? I can.

>>19413085
Edgiest thing I read in a while, bravo
What of children? Do you think they're guilty of "feeling safe", even those who suffer hardship and trauma?

>>19413085
>Human scum; they've always felt so fucking safe inside their homes. Surrounded by the possessions gathered their whole lives. So weak, so fragile, they don't deserve a natural death unconsciously waiting to be obliterated by my Hatred. Those parasites think their walls can save them, but I will destroy everything they own and everything they are.
Literal Hollywood villain dialogue.

>>19413077
Yep, you're right. It's a real apple.

This has to be a problem of language. I refuse to believe that anyone , when their eyes are closed and told to imagine an apple, sees anything even resembling the exact same level of vividness as if I was holding an apple up to their face.

>>19412932
I love how he says he can’t see pictures in his head and only *imagines* things.

It’s a symptom of mental decline but not for the reasons stated. No one can project from their heads some kind of AR image into the world. When you come to imagine something in your head that’s really the extend of what people can do, when you can think of a clear image, something you‘d be able to paint directly without any changes, provided you possess the necessary technical skills to display, is the extent of your visual imagination.
Real aphantasia wouldn’t even allow you to imagine that. You‘d just say the word apple in your head and there wouldn‘t be any kind of ‘image’: red, shape waxed, location, tree, juicy, smell, sound popping up, no links, no relation to nature, to the world. There would ve no association, nothing to paint or paint with but the word apple, no symbol in other words.

The sign of mental decline to be taken from people who’d rather be mute than speak up - is that—is that they’d rather embrace some pathology than their own faults, to decrease their freedom, possibly and actuality and further. It’s the same for people who in ambivalence embrace a mass or religion or ideology.

You want to be sick to be special, to belong to the group of people who are sick, to belong to a mass; to not have the stress of the able and the miss chances: I have no free time because of work; but do see! that even if I wouldn’t have to waste my time laboring that I would not be able to pursue painting because I cannot image, I can only imagine, and I am bound to speech, oh yes, western speech. If I were to, on the other hand, be (so infinitely) different (that I wouldn’t be my own person anymore) I could be anything I want, I am-in a sense-already so accomplished. But alas I am not so in the indexical here of what you could call me.

>>19413091
>What of children?
Let's see if those "human shields" are able to protect themselves on their own ground.
>>19413095
>Literal Hollywood villain dialogue.
No more useless words.

>>19413039
>What kind of faces do you give the people you imagine?
Just regular human faces, I guess, depending on their voice and character. I don't think any of them are truly original, probably just amalgamations of actors and people that I've seen before. This is the latest episode I watched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GcMSi-_CPA&

If you have the time, please watch some of it. I'd be very curious to hear what you imagine while listening.

>>19413084
There's people out there who don't dream and can't visualize. It's shockingly common.

>>19413097
My mental images are crystal clear. Not everyone has the same abilities, not sure why this is so surprising.

>>19413111
>Let's see if those "human shields" are able to protect themselves on their own ground.
No clue what you're even talking about at this point. When I say children, I mean very young ones. How would you respond to an infant; would you blame them for the world around them? What would killing them solve?
>“Love children especially, for they too are sinless like the angels; they live to soften and purify our hearts and, as it were, to guide us.”

>>19413097
Yeah? And what if he's half-blind anon? He can't imagine a clearer apple from having his glasses on?
fucking checkmate

>>19413100
>No one can project from their heads some kind of AR image into the world.
Literally just pictured a zebra in my room peering over my shoulder in first-person as I typed this. It conformed to my room's lighting and I could feel its snout press down upon my skin, its breath on my arm.

Insane how NPCs treat basic childhood imagination as some sort of schizophrenic superpower. Did you literally grow up with an ipad in your face from birth? Because I was poor and had no toys and my mind was all I had for fun.

>>19413133
Blessed are the meek for they make easy targets.

>>19413140
That answers nothing.
You've ceased loving, so you're already in hell. Dying or killing now would change nothing unless you choose to be reborn

>>19413143
Do you really think it moves me? Not Important.

>>19413150
Then get murdering instead of wasting daylight on this forum, retard-kun. You'll make your own misery regardless

>>19413157
Try harder.

>>19413139
>Insane how NPCs treat basic childhood imagination as some sort of schizophrenic superpower.

This scares me but it makes sense, considering the state of the world.

>>19413158
At what?

I'm more than a 1. I can literally imagine anything. I've never had trouble with visualization except during my read of Neuromancer. Fuck you Gibson

>>19412961
I always picture some famous actor or actress for the characters of a book. It's nearly imposible to imagine a new face

>>19413130
Everyone has the same abilities, just not to the same level. It's like asking why it would be so surprising to hear about someone being able to see infrared.

Ok, in all seriousness though. Isn't this about people having different ways to Imagine things? Some people might use taste, smell and touch to imagine the apple. So, while they can't visualize it they can still conjure up the concept of it through other senses.

>>19413100
People really do love their slavery and have the most faith in their own faults.

>>19413182
There are some people that can taste and smell things others cannot. Colorblindness is common, ancient Japanese didn't have a word for green for example until modern times.

>>19413112
Listened to just the first few minutes. Given the old-timey production of this audio my mind immediately gives characters faces of famous people from the time period (Marilyn Monroe for women, James Stewart for men, etc.). It's a bit different between reading and listening, since I have a character's voice that I can use to further influence how they look in my mind.

>>19413207
>Colorblindness is common, ancient Japanese didn't have a word for green for example

This wasn't a result of the japanese being colorblind.

>There are some people that can taste and smell things others cannot

This is just another example of degree of ability.

>Colorblindness is common

Sure but you can test for it, it's a physical condition that can be measured physically, this is literally a mental phenomenon

>>19413241
>this is literally a mental phenomenon

And we can measure it with tests and testimonies, just like anything else in psychology. People lacking imagination really shouldn't come to surprise; I think the people who lack imagination are surprised how vivid having one is.

You should listen to someone who actually reads instead of pulling shit out of your ass
>>19407910

>>19412932
I see movements vividly but colors are usually faded unless I’m specifically imagining something with color.

>>19413054
Based edgelord

>>19412932
I think these people are thinking that people can literally see these objects with their eyes.

>>19412932
I honestly think most people just aren't people in the same way we are.

Like I think most people just have extremely shallow interests and internal lives. Not a lot going on. Small souls. Very little imagination. Some people have souls, most people don't. They just aren't people in the same way we are, OP. Very depleted inner lives.

There are no such things as mass tragedies because most people are husks

>>19413100
Wow you type like an absolute faggot

>>19413368
How do we help people get fuller and deeper lives

>>19413366
that is what is happening
everyone can do 1, but these people are actually thinking people see 1:1 movies playing in their heads

My parents are 5 and I'm a 1.

>>19413366
But it says you have to close your eyes.

3 here. But my mind need a lot of work to make the image

>>19413426
3s are the most interesting in my opinion, so the image is in black or white or not?

>>19413406
But these people think others can actually project images onto the backs of their eyelids, no i can picture it in my head vividly, not with my eyes.

>>19413397
>everyone can do 1

Aphantasia is a real thing.

>>19413426
The Einstein Factor is a good book for those wanting to improve their visualization. Read up on Image Streaming.

Have they actually done empirical tests for things like this?

I mean for a person I who is a 5 if you blind folded them at home would they be able to do all the chores around home in a similar amount of time and not walk slowly/ grope around at all ?

>>19412932

I unironically believe art is getting worse. Our addiction to stimulus and the inability for anyone to sit in contemplation, or to put in effort without distraction. Our culture is becoming so self referential it is insane. Movies, music, books... all of it.

The only people who have any hope are people who are not ruined by the internet and ruled by popular culture, and that group will only get smaller and smaller.

>>19412954
Hi james

>>19413536
I'm scared of seeing my baby niece and nephew grow up and become slowly entrenched in technology. My sister will be a good parent and limit their time with high-stimulus activity, but I weep for the many who grow up with unlimited access to such stimuli

>>19413521
I tried image streaming (narrating mental images out loud) and admittedly it does improve your visualization skills a bit. I doubt that image streaming increases IQ though.
I gave up on it because I found the process of describing out loud a drag. I can now visualize a bit better, but that's mostly through making sure objects have enough details to be vivid. I think that image streaming is just a trick to get you to visualize objects with far more detail than you usually do, but you can just, you know, add more details to your mental images without having to describe out loud.

>>19412932
>He thinks other beings are conscious
>He thinks
It’s pZombies mate. Pmw.

>>19412953
1. A
2. B

>>19412976
Jesus Christ

>>19412932
I suspect a rich inner life would be a symptom of being a bit of a failure, outcast or misfit and the like. I've tried, in the past, to just stop thinking so much and live in the world more, always ends badly. It's like the world of ruminating, reading and writing is more my home than any people or places in my actual life.

>>19413539
if you reread your post you'll see that you don't make any sense, woman

>>19413434
For me it's just dimmed and foggy. I can imagine detail, texture, taste, smell and sound, but it's always dreamy. Kinda like it slips out from my mind very quickly, and I have to make a lot of conscious effort to keep it in there? Things in motion, changing perspectives and everything to do with movement, paradoxically, come naturally.
Everything's a lot easier when I'm imagining descriptions from a book, tho.

>>19412953
1a
2b

>>19412938
Nigga wut. Why wouldn't the Chinese be any less mentally eroded than the west?

>he visualizes while he reads
why not just watch a film you pleb. i read books for WORDS, not images

>>19412938
> Yeah dude. The Chinese aren't like us! They aren't sovless bugmen at all!

>>19412964
>
W-Wa-waldun-san?? >u<

>>19412953
So does this mean questions like these are unsolvable for people in the OP? How do you answer this without having the ability to visualize the object in your mind?

>>19412932
>>19412938
Literature is not dead, and neither is it in decline - it is just as barely alive as it has been forever. Medieval peasants did not enjoy literature, and the majority of people today are exactly the same as medieval peasants, just transported into another time.
You are just severely underestemating the fact that 50% of a population will have an IQ at 100 or below, and that this equates to being a somewhat-functioning retard with just slightly above animal consciousness.

And of course I see 1, and I can simultaneously imagine the taste, smell and texture should I take a bite.

>>19413055
>such a drastic decline in mental
What makes you so sure it is a decline? I am certain that it is just beause the information age has not only given the common retard a voice, but also made it much harder for them to hide in menial repetitive occupations like sweeping, tilling a field, folding a box on at an assembly line via rote memorization, and so on, making the large part of a population who are retards more visible than they used to be.

>>19413860
Waldun is an awful writer and mega cringe
His writing is souless, its a fanfiction of him being a good writer

>>19412961
For main characters I almost always imagine them sort of looking like the author lol. Though no gender bending for female MCs though, imagination’s not strong enough

>>19413162
Never heard of this Gurdjieff guy untill now. I will check him out.

>>19412953
I have a fun mental exercise that for whatever reason I tried to do in my teens, and I've found it difficult ever since.

Imagine a clock face or a stopwatch with only one hand on it. Now imagine that clock hand moving clockwise, slowly increasing in speed. Abruptly, killing all momentum, try to imagine the clock hand stopping and moving counter-clockwise at the same speed. Then again, revert back in a split second to clockwise.

The first directional change I found relatively easy to do, but from then on it takes intensive imaginative work to stop that momentum in my own mind. I find it quite interesting because I conjured the entire imagine myself and yet somehow my brain fights against being able to control its inertia with any degree of ease.

>>19414080
>I conjured the entire imagine myself
Image, rather.

>>19414080
This is incredibly easy for me. You must be stupid.

>>19414080
I could do this one easily but I know exactly the feeling you're describing, I do many weird 3D geometric games in my head and they can get out of your control sometimes.

>>19413139
Same here. I was surprised when I discovered that not everyone can do this. I also have magnificent dreams that are wild and surreal. I love my imagination so much bros.
When I did SSRIs I lost the dreams and the imagination and it legitimately made me want to kill myself. I had to quit them and they've been slowly coming back over the years since. Sadly the dreams are rare now. Doing SSRIs was the worst decision in my life.

>>19413659
>wOmAN

I think you guys are schizo. I can imagine an apple, it’s colour, shine and flaws, the stem, smell and taste but in my head I see a sort of shadow of it, no way I see it as vivid as I would if I was looking at a real one. I don’t think anyone sees 1.

I seriously lack the attention span for audiobooks, I drift into thoughts and when I pay attention again I missed a lot of what happened

>>19412952
underrated cute post

>>19412938
I'm Chinese and I only see a 5
I do visualise stuff strongly but only mentally, like when I read a book or I have loops of visualisation that I can't stop thinking about when I'm stressed and also horrible things when I'm scared but I definitely do not see a red apple when I close my eyes and think of an apple

>>19412952
Based

>>19414102
so you cant recall images you've seen before like photos? or cut an apple from one of these images and see it alone without the background?

>>19413049
>No, you’re just a resentful inwardly facing little bitch who hates the world and life.

The genre, no, the idea of tragedy itself is defined by lifesuckers crying because they have to swallow.

>>19413049
>You think all these people were NPCs?

Yes.

It's hard to imagine with my eyes closed and sedentary. Skipping about with eyes wide open is the only way for full immersion. Add coffee and music and I will literally fall and bump into crap while playing a fantasy

Everyone born after and including Jan 1 1990 00:00:00 should be euthanized, pic unrelated

>>19414080
Someone told me you can't visualize a shape becoming less opaque or more opaque from entirely one to the other. After trying: what colour did you use (I always used red/pink for some reason); use the spoiler tag

>>19414139
yes I absolutely can recall them in quote some detail, yet still I see them as foggy/shadowed. In no way as vivid as if it was in front of me, which is normal. You're the same and so is everyone, stop larping as some ubermensch.

>>19412952
Proustian pilled

>>19414178
I can visualize it but it doesn't smoothly transition from either side of the spectrum, it happens in slight chunks, as if my brain has rendering lag. blue/beige also

>>19412932
I can't imagine people who are anything other than a 1. I mean are people being real or are you trolling me? Folks having zero imaginative capacity would explain a LOT though.

>>19412953
It would be funny if someone made a version of this where none of the answers are correct

>>19412932
I genuinely don't believe this picture. Even if you can't just imagine an apple you can remember an apple and see it in your mind.

>>19412976
I used to be super present with a well-developed ability to visualize things and had a constant inner monologue, but since June this year my visualization, memory, and inner monologue have gone into the gutter. I half blame the vaxx since I got the first dose the week I lost everything, but that same week I went through a sort of breakup with a girl who was at the time the closest friend I ever had, and I know grief and depression nonsense can really fuck with your head. Just weird that it is still a noticeable issue, maybe a little better than it was midsummer.
Just thought I'd share in case anyone else has experienced something similar.

>>19412953
Twitterfags are just low IQ

>>19412932
No, I don't have an inner monologue and I love reading, but I definitely noticed that I enjoy reading different styles than "regular people". I'm definitely more drawn to shit like DFW, Raymond Carver and those writers who don't "overdo" descriptions and such things. That is probably because I grew overly exposed to images, so I can imagine things by myself just fine.
And that shit of being unable to picture an apple in your mind, I can do that, but I can totally understand that some people might not be able to do it. As in, we definitely don't have perfect pictures of apples in our minds, I can probably get to 2 or something relatively close but blurry. A decent way to test that would be to teach someone how to draw from life and then ask them to draw an apple without looking at anything.

the majority of people are more or less slaves of heredity ,environment and manifest very little freedom
step over plebs and do what you want

>>19414312
But I can get pretty close to 1 if you ask me to imagine an hippo. That is because back when I was drawing I did lots of hippos.

I think one of the best part about books is creating the settings as described. I feel like the one thing that always stays with me is the image I create in my head for the staging of the story. My memory is pretty bad I would say yet I still have vivid images of locations from books I've read as a kid.

There's this one scene from some spin off Frankenstein book that I read as kid which I still picture when I think of Switzerland and Germany. Its of a wooden house on the side of a lake surrounded by mountains. The memory is so pure and vivid that I don't even want to see if something like it exists out of fear of changing the image. I want to learn to draw just so I can draw out the things I see just as I envision them in my head.

>>19414090
If the hands are spinning fast enough, I find it tough to revert the inertia without imagining a secondary force helping it, like something blocking the hand from turning, or as if invisible hands were pulling it in the other direction. To simply imagine it stopping despite spinning incredibly quickly and moving in the other direction is a tough one and gives me an eerie feeling for a second or two.

>>19414199
NPC isn't a meme. These people are literally NPCs. It's no coincidence this poll was conducted on Twitter

I can taste, feel and smell the apple if I think about it.

>>19412932
This gotta be a bait, how the fuck is possible not to see anything other than 1 let alone to see nothing at all? Like how the fuck does one even think about anything without portraying it in some way? For me I see the image and hear/see the word, although right now I'm not sure which one naturally comes first in my mind because I'm overthinking it. Please tell me this is a joke.

>>19414358
I can feel my penis inside of the apple. Now it's out. Now it's back in. Out. In. Out. Then in again.

>>19414374
>how the fuck is possible not to see anything other than 1 let alone to see nothing at all?
>>19414359
exposure to elsa spiderman videos, advertising and porn during key brain development

>>19414382
Yeah but you're naming a cause, my question is like how is it technically possible not to portray anything in your mind, I just cannot imagine (heh) it.

>>19414382
"Children's" anything might just be raw evil. Children should be programmed by the woods and streams, taught with outdoor play and by stick-swordfighting and wrestling with the neighborhood kids and their siblings. Reading beautiful illustrated encyclopedias of natural history, diagrams of war machines, artbooks, etc if they don't want to read actual Great Books. Not mkultra'd with horribly uneasy cringe-inducing images. Screenshot from Art of Thinking by Ernest Dimnet

You explain to people that animals and small children process the world differently it's understandable, but they lose their minds when you explain adults do as well, since you're stepping on the toes of the unspoken myth of the cosmological man. Very intelligent people don't like the idea that others perceive the world and process it very differently, because it undermines the legitimacy of consensuses between adults of any sort.

Most people in this world simply follow their feelings, with little to no visualization, monologue or what we would recognize as thinking; there are no lights on. They cannot separate themselves from their own feelings or urges either, seeking something outside themselves to fill an endless void that they don't even know exists within themselves. The very idea of 'disagreeing with one self' is an alien concept to them, as they are themselves as they would say, but it is an essential for any sort of introspection to have self awareness and an inner world at all.

>>19412932
This has nothing to do with intelligence. There are extremely smart people that lack the ability to visualize things in their mind. It's a condition called aphantasia.

I personally can't visualize anything, but I can easily understand complicated analytic philosophy and math.

>>19414935
You can't visualize anything? What the fuck? You must be trolling. This shit is freaking me out.

>>19412952
That's how you construct images by base.

>>19414939
Yeah, I can't. I know exactly how an apple looks like and I can describe every little detail of it, but I don't actually have a mental image of it. I just know what it is.

>>19414374
If you only knew how bad things were.

http://hurlburt.faculty.unlv.edu/heavey-hurlburt-2008.pdf

>>19414994
This has been "DEBOONKED", as they say. Read into the details of the study instead of just looking at pictures out of context and going "oOOOOOOOOOOOOOO".

you cunts confuse me. do you guys actually see an apple as if it were there floating in an abyss or can you just feel what an apple is like

>>19415015
See it. When I read a book it's basically a movie in my mind's eye.

>>19412932
As someone who actually has OVERTHINKER problem, I am baffled how people can be this retarded.

>>19415043
i envy you. is there anyway to develop this ability. i feel i could do this when i was younger but lost it. if i lost it, it can be regained.

>>19415043
This although it depends on the book. For instance Illiad was joy to imagine while reading, but Bible while reading Romans and other Paul work does not conjure much.

I like apples.

>>19412932
>lack an inner monologue and the ability to visualize

Yeah, they're called "non-whites," and they've been encroaching on the west and importuning western society for a while now.

>>19414945
Can you write creatively? Do you get the images picturing the world or characters you create when you do?

>>19413327
The good posts always get ignored

>>19413054

>>19412932
Most adults are functionally illiterate, tv built the coffin and social media hammered the lid shut. The reason audiobooks are big now is the result of carrying around a device all day that pummels their frontal lobes like a speed bag. Most people are unable to focus and sit still for any amount of time without getting jacked up on serotonin this is also why men in thier late 30s are all acting like precocious autistic 14yo girls, no control no discipline no critical faculties. The world just washes past thier brain and they live purely reactively, no room for reading as it causes too much friction.

>>19412932
I can sort of imagine things, but I don't literally "see" a vivid detailed image as if I had a built in jpg viewer in my head.

>>19412953
Haha women btfo‘d

>>19413063
>>19413069
>>19413363
>>19415118
>>19413091
>>19413095
Anyone who doesn’t recognize this is all from a video game is legitimately retarded

>>19413140
>>19413111
We got an edge lord here.

>>19412938
>Chinese people
>soul, imagination
Pick one

>>19415172
>Chinese
>People

Pick one

>>19415161
Bideo gam? I luv bideo gams!

>>19413054
You have to be 18 to post here.

>>19413054
Based

>>19415015
>do you guys actually see an apple as if it were there floating in an abyss

Yes. For me, if I'm imagining something it's as if there's a photorealistic object floating in the blue-black of my mind. If I'm just thinking vaguely about something, the images will be faded and dark against that abuss. But if I'm doing something like "imagining an apple" then my brain can see a literal 3D apple and manipulate it including taste, smel, sounds, etc.

I've been practicing music and art since before I could talk. My dad was an artist and impressed on me that you have to be able to draw what objects really look like (not an imagined cartoon version of them), but also be able to draw from imagination. And of course in music you have to be able to 'visualize' how a piece should sound if you want to write new stuff.

>>19415258
this makes me think visualisation is a skill that needs to be practiced and developed

>>19414178
Like a dusty, faded blue.
I think this has a lot to do with an individual's prior experience/exposure to visual shape-puzzles in books or toys, like the most common color of the circles used in the textbook when you had to learn fractions in school.
Also, sincerely, good job priming the experiment with the distracting "goal", so that subjects wouldn't consciously influence their reactions.

>>19414199
>I can't imagine people who are anything other than a 1
Imagine an elementary Cantor ternary function.
>you didn't imagine Devil's staircase graph, lel NPC!

People easily visualize things that they commonly visually percieve. Nowsays, lots of people don't visually percieve many things on a regular basis that earlier would have constant familiarity - instead they frequently percieve other things.

>>19415015
If I don't try, I get like a shifting image of an apple, done in various styles (from photorealistic to minimalist), with background changind especially rapidly (real scenes from memory, stuff from dreams, backgrounds of naturmort paintings, etc), but once I focus it does become a clearly defined simple but realistic apple against like, a beige-grey emptiness.

>>19415258
>in the blue-black of my mind.
This is the thing though, isn't it? Any time this subject is brought up, people will trip over themselves misunderstanding each other. Someone will describe visualisation, seeing a thing in one's mind's eye, and others will interpret that as the former 'literally* seeing an image of the thing as if it were a hallucination before them and get upset or conclude that they have aphantasia. It's an incredibly subjective thing, and I don't think most people have the ability to actually describe their thought- or visualisation process with enough clarity to make themselves understood by the other.

>>19415280
ayrt
I've always suspected it is. Most of the great artists have a clear understanding of the 3D form. As in, you can see the way they visualize and imagine the subject, just by looking at their art.

A really basic example of this would be the horse in Picasso's Guernica. As your eyes trace over it, it's meant to evoke the movement of the animal twisting and tossing it's head. A more complicated example would be a lot of great classical portraiture. The image isn't necessarily a 1 to 1 recreation of what the artist saw. It's not a photograph. Rather, the artist is manipulating the image in order to render the features of the face in a way that captures and accentuates specific things. They're enhancing things like shadows around the eyes or the roundness and rosiness of a woman's cheeks. And by re-imagining the individual elements, they create an image that's almost hyperreal.

But you can't do any of that unless you can imagine the subject and create the picture in your mind.

And writing music is the same way. If you can't hear it in your head, you'll never be able to write it very well. ime writing dialog is the same. If the only voice you can imagine is your own, then that's just how your dialog will sound as well.

>>19414255
Ridiculous. This has never happened to anybody because of those reasons. You either have an undiagnosed mental illness or an undiagnosed brain tumor. Get checked out (if you have insurance), if not: enjoy worrying

>>19412932
I visualize detailed objects and rotate them / transmute them / explode them without issue, but I can't visualize color. Is that normal?

>>19414255
youre just depressed

With enough effort I csn conjure specific smells or tactile feelings as if I were actually experiencing them. I think it's part of my photographic memory.

>>19414353
Same

What’s dead about it? Maybe you’re just digging a hole?

>>19412932
Audiobooks are really popular because of long commutes, and the abundance of earphones at any given moment. As well, working while listening to audiobooks feeds into the non-stop working ethic that a lot of these ghouls love, that they are "productive" and "constantly learning" rather than being more sedentary and reading

>>19413644
This. I've always, always lived in my head. Nothing gets in without going through the airlock. I feel underdeveloped and it floors me when I stop and think of how my daily life would appear under simple visual observation. I'm in here with my toys, all under control at all times. My sexual fantasies feel like virtual reality. I recently discovered the best new song I've come across in a long time and it's in my head non-stop with every detail down to the candy (the song is Don't I Hold You by Wheat). I play multiple instruments and sing so knowing how to do all the parts makes it even more vivid. I often think it would be better to not see the damn apple that isn't there so that I could have the clear-minded drive towards things that do exist. I do like my toys but there's a lot of real things out there that I'm missing. A lot.

>>19415509
>As well, working while listening to audiobooks feeds into the non-stop working ethic that a lot of these ghouls love, that they are "productive" and "constantly learning" rather than being more sedentary and reading
my mom listens to audiobooks while working but it’s just to make working more bearable because shit sucks. not everybody is a ghoul bro

>>19415455
I can feel what licking a girl's ass or fingering a girl's pussy is like, despite never having actually done them. Too bad I can't
>Imagine the smell.

>>19415509
I have no idea how people listen to this in audio form. I came across a fancy pair of earbuds, and I do get tired eyes between screentime and reading or writing on paper, so I tried my best to listen to podcasts or audiobooks to rest my eyes, maybe in bed or during commutes. I hate this shit. It's always so meandering and I feel like I have no control over what I am doing. I can enjoy a movie because I will turn off the lights and sit down and give 100% of my senses to the movie but with audio I feel like I'm just wasting time. Sometimes I just don't like the pace at which someone is reading, or the pitch, I only think "I wish I could read this myself" the whole time.

>>19412932
I see something between 1 & 2 but it kind of flickers sometimes. It looks impressionist basically.
If I have a good day of nutrition, proper diet, and exercise, I can do 1. I feel it consumes more calories to visualize all of the fine details.
Sleep quality as affects my visualization capabilities.

>>19415591
>not everybody is a ghoul
thats why I said "a lot of these types..." for every anon's lovely mom, there are scores of those weird neurotic PWC types people who can't relax if you catch my meaning

>>19414185
>stop larping as some ubermensch.
Imagination is not a superpower. I feel really sorry for you, anon. Maybe you'll get it back one day.

>>19415096
No, I'm terrible at writing creatively, lol. I usually get strong feelings and philosophical insights when I read novels or watch films, but I don't get these strong mental images and videos people talk about. I'm also terrible at creative drawing.

I kinda envy people who do get these strong mental images, but on the flip side I'd imagine it can be quite intense and scary.

>>19413907
You're blind and it saddens me.

>>19412954
Do you mean sees as in outside your head? Nobody hallucinates but I'd imagine most can visualize in their head.

>>19412957
>Go run 5 miles and tell me you were thinking coherent words even half of the time and i'll tell you you're lying
Don't see whats impossible here. I go on jogs all the time and have thoughts. Guess it must just be a NPC thing.

>>19412932
I can envision a crisp, wet apple pretty easily. Everyday objects like pens, books, phones and such are easy to visualize accurately, but when it comes to descriptions of people and places in books, it is closer to 3-4 for me.

When reading Crime and Punishment, I could consistently visualize Raskolnikov's apartment and the bridge, but struggled with the dive bars and courtrooms, or other places only mentioned a handful of times. Raskolnikov's face changed often for me.
Sometimes I ignore the author's descriptions. I think Raskolnikov was blonde, but I always imagined him as having black hair and stubble and sallow skin.

>>19412954
>>19412957
>>19412976
>>19413055
>>19413084
>>19413097
>>19413100
>>19414102
>>19414374
>>19414939
How can so many of you be so utterly incapable of understanding that human's think (in the meta-cognitive sense) differently? Do you really think everyone's mind operates in exactly the same way as you?
>>19413130
>>19413193
>>19413310
the only reasonable anons in this thread, gj bros
>>19413528
literally just go look at the aphantasia wiki page and read the research page...

Every sense that you perceive can be imagined by somebody in the world, and by the same token there will be people who are incapable of imagining that same sense. Imagining is different from memory (and from dreaming) although many people use memory as a substitute without even realising it.

>>19413049
t. teenager who scrolled briefly through Nietzsche's wiki page

>>19413054
you

>>19414185
>You're the same and so is everyone, stop larping as some ubermensch.
Yes I can picture it perfe fly. Really not hard.

>>19412932
Why would anyone see 3 and 4? Doesn't make sense to me.
I read Spring Snow that novel would be very bad if I couldn't visualize the beautiful scenery.
There's a Hispanic at work that can't go a minute without noise. He constantly listens to music without headphones or has weird calls with his wife. Even a short walk to the bathroom without music is filled with talking or sounds to himself. Very odd.

>>19412932
look at all these keking npcs, they don't even realize it either

>>19415777
That's very interesting anon. Can I ask if you're generally quite a mentally stable person? I wonder if having access to intense imagination is in line with people being unstable. I'm definitely able to imagine a lot, I'd even consider myself a '1' on the chart in the OP, but I tend to get intrusive thoughts quite often and have pretty bad OCD from time to time.

>>19415914
I'm similar to you actually now that I think about it. I tend to get the 'vibe' of a person more than I do the exact features, like a chiselled chin with stubble on it, or a dusty brim hat rather than just imagining a perfect avatar out of nowhere.
If I've watched a movie before reading the book first, it's pretty much just the actor that comes to mind.

>>19412932
I remember it being a red star. Mandela effect

>>19415924
Ok some people are NPCs, no need to mass reply fag

Help when I close my eyes I see a mech apple destroying a city

>>19412932
>>19412976
literal NPCs

>>19415884
Good. Causing sadness in giant faggots is a moral duty.

>>19412932
I can't wrap my head around people not being able to "see" an image of an apple they've held before. Maybe they are fat fucks who last ate one in pre-school

>>19412932
What did those people think "imaginary friends" were? Or did they never hear of the concept? Also, why close your eyes? It changes nothing, you should be able to visualize things either way. Anyway I'm most curious how those people would solve:
>>19412953
Also, is it limited to sight only? Like, are they also incapable of imagining touch or sounds? Like they never had a song stuck in their heads? This is weird as hell.

>>19416419
based

>>19415161
Is it from Hatred? Only game I can think of with edgy enough dialogue
Why would you expect people on /lit/ to catch a video game reference?

>>19417767
quit ruining my bait

Jesus Christ. You are all desperate to feel superior.

>>19412964
They really should encourage private schooling in the US

>>19414120
You clearly aren’t chinese

>>19417805
i'm guessing it is hatred then
decently done bait, got a reply from me

>>19417834
Wow that's rude of you, i'm ABC

>>19417839
yeah it's Hatred, but I also used one from Postal 1 for the lols

>>19417817
No, I'm desperate because I am superior.

>>19417845
You're so stupid, you don't even know your ABCs

>>19417845
Australian or American?

>>19417907
:(
I don't get why you have to be mean but alright

>>19417914
Australian lol, I'm glad there's someone out there who doesn't automatically think america when they see ABC

>>19417918
That’s because I was also born in Australia

>>19412932
>audio books
No way
Reading is much easier. I can't visualize shit when I'm wasting 90% of my brain power on listening

>>19412932
The only way you can speed read is to read without an inner monologue. Therefore, I don’t think people are listening to audio books due to lacking an inner monologue.

>>19413049

That's a false dichotomy. The true chad inwardly ruminates on his ideas and intentions, then outwardly manifests them in reality.

>>19417962
But listening to someone read would be just as long if not longer than using an inner monologue

>>19417993
Yes, but I don’t see why people would listen to somebody read just because they can’t visualise anything. How would it help? It isn’t necessary.

>>19413049
I blame Shakespeare, Hamlet is literally me

This image is such a troll, people don't see literal images in the same way they don't see the words they are thinking about in their head.

>>19418248
I definitely see literal images.

>>19412953
1. A
2. B

>>19418248
I see it in my minds eye. Some people can’t.

Literature may not be dead because autodidacts exist. Tablet's can be equipped with an endless collection of ebooks. The printed book is superior to the ebook in certain ways, but you cannot deny the unlimited access you can get if you download your education.

>>19418355
In what ways is the printed book superior?

I'm 1. I can see a literally real apple and can even rotate it.

>>19418372
Well, you do not have to charge it. There are privacy concerns that would have if you were reading something on a Kindle. You can share it with your friends, sell it to a used book store , or donate to the public library. You might be able to email your friend an ebook that is in public domain but the printed book is exempt from that.

>>19418439
>You can share it with your friends
Spastic

>>19418448
Arrogance is a defense mechanism. You either have problems with your acquaintances or have no friends what so ever. Try staying in a holding cell for sometime because that is where such toxic behavior will lead you.

>>19414080
I can't get the hand to spin fast enough

How come its all tranny genderslimes and democrats that have no mind's eye or inner voice?

>>19418521
demonstrate it

>>19412956
Different poster; my wife is from China and while I haven't shown her this picture (she's asleep now), I have talked to her about mental dialogue vs thinking in abstract concepts and she falls firmly in the camp of thinking without any mental dialogue

>>19415589
>it floors me how my life would appear under simple observation
Exactly. And to be honest I could continue to live this way if I didn't have an intuition its wrong. My current solution is to do my duty of the moment (work, keeping family relationships, taking care of others e.t.c), but besides that, just create art. As long as my ruminations aren't a dead end, where I'm just playing with my mind, if I can just write about them atleast, then maybe one day I'll be able to write something of worth to someone. If I could influence someone through that I'd be happy.

>>19418521
>genderslimes
Kek

>>19412932
First of all I don't really see any of these, it's much more complex and more like a false memory of an apple with a background, motion, and everything. When I was little sometimes when I was trying to sleep I'd visualize my room entirely and forget my eyes were closed until I moved to get up.

Second of all, """literature""" as a concept is a poorly defined relic of the enlightenment and traditional western academia, both of which will be discarded and forgotten shortly. Intelligent people and the institutional control they had over literature and culture are both dying out, which when combined with the internet and modern (jewish) capitalism means civilisation is racing to the bottom faster than at any other point since the end of the bronze age.

Pic related is high culture now, or will be soon. Don't complain, it's the future you chose.

>>19418677
I honestly can't believe that people accept this. I turn on the TV and half of everyone in movies and ads is black. The black demographic in my country is exclusively rapefugees, there are no middle-upper class black people shopping on Amazon. Literally every single ad has a lesbioid black chick with le fro haircut. Is it really because of women? Are women responsible for this?

>>19412932
I'm a 5, and have never had any issues reading. I have aphantasia and prosopagnosia, so I go through life in a bit of a fog most of the time, but hand me some acrylic paints or watercolours or oil pastels, and I can produce a reasonably convincing apple even without a reference. Brains, I personally think, are funny. You can have a bigger catalogue of images stored away than you think, even if you can't bring them to mind when convenient, but given the correct prompt they will present themselves.

Also, this>>19412951
>Close, literature is dead because of literacy. People who aren't mentally equipped to be able to read are, and force the market to the lowest common denominator.
This seems most likely.
>Imagine my shock when I found out people in 5 literally just think of words. Letters. Imagine what they would think of if they didn't know the alphabet. That's the state in which the should live.
I literally don't even think of the words or letters.

You don’t need one. We live in a society dominated by visuals. in fact if you think you’re intelligent I’d question it deeply. Not even an insult I mean it literally, I do it often. I question is my interpretation of something is creative or if my perception of reality IS reality. Then I considered the dude who started Alibaba is a tier r retard. In fact more often than not it doesn’t pay to be smart. Not that I measure quality purely based off of money, but come on it certainly helps lol.

Plus it’s different when most classic books were written we live in a time when you can download a VPN and watch whatever the fuck you please for as long or whenever you want. And when you’re dealing with such an unprecedented amount of media and data being shared, it’s this hodgepodge of just garbage essentially. plus with the internet many things are now enjoyed ironically but in a universally 21st century fashion.

Everyone has their own little cope echo chamber to retire to, and things are visualized for us we don’t have to imagine them.

>>19412932
if you can jack off without porn, using just your imagination, then you're a 1-2.
if you need porn, then you're a 5-4.

>>19418521
That's your wishful thinking, retard

>>19412953
Lol I just started dental school and an entire section on our entrance exam was this kind of stuff.

>>19412932
I refuse to believe this, any human should be able to see 1.

>>19418941
>We live in a society dominated by visuals.
Wrong, we live in a society dominated by passive consumption. I am horrified that my brother's kids literally cannot draw anything outside of minecraft shit. If you ask them to draw something from their own imagination they will literally stare at the blank page.

>>19413054

>>19419347
>>19418522

#bluewave and tranny flags right there in OPs pic. I would tell you to seethe, but I know you p-zombies don't actually feel a thing.

>>19412932
I vary between 1 and 4, can't seem to hold a static image for long though, mostly flashes, then it morphs into another form of the same thing

red apple > green apple > small apple > big apple > rotten apple > apple on a tree

Maybe I'm ADHD.

Imagine your own face
>heh Of course I can do that I am totally a one
Now project the image of your face mentally onto the desk in front of you
>Lol of course I can do that, I am imagining it now moving flat to the table like an old powerpoint transition
Now put a paper on the desk
>uhhh ok....
Now trace the face
>W-what?
Trace it you are a type one right?
>B-but THATS IMPOSSIBLE NOOOO I AM A ONE I AM A ONE

>>19419719
This isn't how it works. Drawing something implies a layer of abstraction and what you're asking is an inordinate amount of effort. But you can definitely see this at work when you see artists and especially animators drawing from their imagination, as they can not only rotate but also light things correctly on the fly.

>>19412953
1A 2B

Interestingly I think people brought up around videogames (like myself) generally find spatial IQ really easy

>>19412938
Drugs and fluoride in the tapwater, unironically.

I think most people would acc be a 3, there is no way people have no images in their head.
I'm a 1, but I also studied engineering and cad drilled modelling in my head and I can rotate the apple around

>>19414229
When I was scrolling past and caught a glipse of this face I had thought I had gone mad

>>19419874
>there is no way people have no images in their head.
That's where you're wrong. People are different.

The image is just a troll and you guys are taking it seriously. No one has it like any example, people saying 1 and 5 are actually having the same experience, what you answer only tells us how confident you are about it and how you interpret OP's pic.

I'm an illustrator, I can visualize things in 3D and draw an apple anyway you like, that doesn't mean an accurate movie plays in my head. I can imagine an apple, it's not like seeing an apple like 1 implies, it's not just empty like 5 implies, it's not blurry like the others either, simply because imagining something is not like seeing something.

On the reading experience, I remember when I studied psychology I read an essay (can't recall title or author) that said reading was a subjectifying experience, in the sense that you are taking information, emotions, stories, etc while someone sitting right next to you is not having any it. Therefore, you can see better that there is a gap between what goes in your mind and how people around you deal with you. The essay argued that the increase of reading habits in the 19th century Europe was one of the things responsible for the origin of psychology, that people would see their own mind under a different light because of it and feel like talking it out to someone.

I constantly think about this when it comes to our internet age. Each one of us in our own bubble of information. Take any minor subject and you'd still have decades worth of knowledge to dig. We are so sure of the importance of our little interests and frames of mind that when we encounter other people we are absolutely shocked that they think differently. "How can you not see how obviously wrong you are?" seems to me to be a very common perspective, left and right, mostly because all I've been learning so far, you don't know and all that you know, I don't know. And yet the digital space is a public space that mash us all together to discuss things. Of course we all get pissed off at each other.

But I digress.

>>19420002
>I'm an illustrator
You can only imagine a dirty vagina in one of 3 coomer poses

>>19413044
>1 but it blinks in and out
This seems normal to me. The dialogue around this topic is deeply misleading as the people who can "see" and "hear" things in their head are still shit-for-brains, only they phrase it as an Us vs Them. Reality is, if you hear your own voice when you read you are the mental equivalent to a child moving their lips when they read quietly, if you "see" an apple it's likely because you're mentally incapable of more complex thought and have resigned to placing an apple on a surface and staring at it.
I see things in my mind's eye and recall the qualities and tones of sounds and such but they're constructs, and since I'm an intelligent man and not a braindead computer that holds shit in its' RAM endlessly, they go away after I've taken from them the reason I'm thinking of them in the first place.
Don't be fooled by the twats who use these threads to throw themselves a party, they're mental midgets who are as clear as day desperate to be part of something.

>>19413327
Underrated

>>19420075
>actually my inferior cognition means I'm smart
lol

>>19420098
>>actually my inferior cognition means I'm smart
>lol
I made no such confession, but it seems you're still deep in cope from your teacher chastising you in front of the class for moving your lips as you read.

I always ask people if they have an inner monologue and if they can visualize things in their minds. If the answer is no I discard every opinion they have and opinions they will have. No way am I listening to people like that, they're literally brain dead. I'm not even going to bother reading all the cope in this thread.

>>19412932
I'm sick of these larps, everyone's a special snowflake here, no, people don't "see things" in their head, these are telltale signs of you being sick, do yourself a favour and check yourself into the nearest psych ward. You are just boldly repeating white supremacist talking points.

>>19418509
Sperg. I clearly think that point is laughable because you can share digital books as many times as you want while keeping a copy for yourself. Printed books are not superior just because you can lend them.

>>19418761
Yes.

>>19418997
Wait, is this actually true? Can 5s not fantasise to get off?

>>19412951
>I'm a 1, but thought I was a 5 because I couldn't literally trick myself into hallucinating an apple.
I felt the same way and I was genuinely convinced I was some mentally stunted retard for ages

this whole thing is a misunderstanding

>>19412932
>Is this why audio books have become so popular?
You are wrong, audio books require the same ability to visualize to be enjoyed.
The reason they are becoming popular is because most people are not allotting time to literature either due to a lack of desire or just plain because of a lack of time.

>>19420220
I don’t know, dude. Some people don’t have inner monologues.

>>19419719
so true

>>19420220
>>19419373
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-the-minds-eye-is-blind1/

>>19414080
I have trouble with stuff like that when I get extremely tired, or just before I fall asleep. Visualisation of nearly all forms seems to lose its proportion and cease to function how I consciously will it. I wonder if any research has been done into that, it seems kinda tripped out

>>19412932
Ah, this thread again. It's been fourteen years since I broke up with my ex, and I am to this day still living my innermost sexual fantasies with her, in perfect synaesthetic detail. I've mentally dressed her up in all those kinky costumes that she hated, and made her do all sorts of degrading things, like listening to my poetry. Thanks to my perfect eidetic memory and perfect spatial visualization granted to me by low functioning autism, her far-beyond-my-league ass will NEVER escape my grasp! I will fuck the afterimage seared into my brain forever and ever, until Alzheimer's claims my mind! Take THAT you whore!

>>19412951
I think you're a retard. I think "apple" and right away I've got an apple sitting in a void that I can rotate freely like I'm examining an item in resident evil. If there's anybody that doesn't have that ability or even thinks they don't for a second then I refuse to consider that critter a human being.

>>19412988
>Thomas Harris is really light on descriptions
His description of Hannibal made my mental Hannibal a super lean Jeremy irons with an expressionless face. Mainly because of the voice.

>>19420199
i dunno. But if you think about it, substituting a naked body for an apple should be the ultimate criterion for whether you're a 1 or a 5.
And some people absolutely require a physical body to have sex with, they can't get off with with their own imaginations let alone with porn.
Then you have some who can get off with porn, but not with just their imaginations.
Then you have some who can get off with just their imagination, and don't need porn or a physical body.

The "apple test" doesn't have any way to actually test or prove itself. It just relies on people's self-reporting.
The jack-off test has an actual proof in the pudding (so to speak). If you successfully jack off, then you pass the test.

I know, horribly low brow to discuss this on a /lit/ forum, but more empirical than the "apple test".

>>19420408
>okay imagine an apple
>uhm... no... nothing
>okay now imagine Asa Akira
>pic rel

>>19413045
It's a tardbrain cope that's probably honestly true for 99.99 percent of the population. Just like how "science" says that your memories are completely made up and not really the way they happened, I feel like thats probably true for almost everyone but definitely not me. I can remember events perfectly and Ive watched over the past decade as the retellings by my friends have slowly degraded into something almost totally different from the reality. Just the other week my friend was telling a story from highschool 17 years ago and he managed to jumble up three separate events into one before I jumped in and stopped him.

But anyway, yeah my dreams and "minds eye" are full of unique human faces, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that most people just see vague shadows and blurred features, since most people are retarded.

people without imagistic imagination need to be culled in some way

>>19420417
>>19420417
>"science" says that your memories are completely made up and not really the way they happened
I can absolutely recall in what exact position I left something, long-term, to the point where I can know for sure that if that position has changed it's been tampered with. This thing about memory is bullshit and its literally a psyop to convince you that the reality you experience isn't real. Of course things get fuzzy with unimportant details but I remember important places and events perfectly well, like an event when someone hurt himself, I perfectly remember where the scar would be. This insistence that "your memory is unreliable so you should never trust it" is literal MiniTrue kikery.

Literature is dead because of religion

>>19420441
That's a pretty hot take since the death of literature went hand in hand with the collapse of religious values.

>>19420415
Is it a memory you see or can you manipulate her in your mind?

>>19420448
(I don't like Asa Akira, it was a joke)

>>19420451
Homo

>>19420448
I can definitely see Emily bloom slowly lowering her ass right onto my face and sitting there for an hour before she moves out of the way so that alexandra daddario can take a seat instead

>>19420408
This assumes that people need to see things to get off. I jack off to imagination all the time but I focus more on sensations and words than a visual image. I mainly just enjoy how it feels in the moment rather than fantasising

>>19420482
>this assumes that people need to see things to get off
some people do though. Or at least, they self-report as needing to. They justify their promiscuous lifestyle over their need to have physical contact in order to get off (i.e. they're a 5)

Im between 1-2 but can rotate the images in my head at any speed and also zoom in an out, edit them, basically change any element but have it be the same image. Imagine autocad or Photoshop, which is related cause i use both a shit ton and think its where i gained the skill.

So my real conclusion is that this is entirely based on what you spent your free time as a kid doing, and narrative people simply weren't too creative

>>19412932
Literature is less popular than movies or shows but it's more popular and widespread than it ever was.

>>19413139
I can certainly visualize things accurately if I focus enough, but I can't feel or smell things in the same way as I imagine sight or sound. Are you actually feeling the zebra, or just thinking of the sensation of that feeling?

>>19420858
I can remember the sensation. I don’t feel it in my hands.

>>19412954
People with aphantasia blow my mind, how do you people even dream?

>>19413097
Aren't you able to imagines someone's face vividly? how is an apple differently?

>>19413894
>How do you answer this without having the ability to visualize the object in your mind?
Zombie here. Instead of actually visualizing the rotation, you just memorize all the parts in relation to each other and see which of the answers fits that pattern.

>>19413842
so you don't imagine faces, or clothes, or buildings?

>>19414080
I didn't find this challenging. Although I could also imagine the example you described. Are you sure you're not tricking yourself into making the same mistakes? Like riding a bike and hitting a tree because you were looking at and thinking of the tree.

>>19414080
Pretty straightforward for me.

>>19412932
I'm white, 22, high iq (around 130, only verbal), likely to have aspergers, smoke pot daily and used to take psychedelics often.
I'm 5 (sometimes I can barely force a slight image). I have a strong inner monologue and I can often get lost in my imagination which is often very visual, I just can't imagine an apple on command.
The reason is that people either tend to think in words or in images (very rarely can people think strongly in both, and women tend to think more in pictures and men think more in words). If you can't imagine an apple on command you aren't a midwit or an NPC, but you probably are if you also lack a strong inner monologue because at that point your mind is just a passive recipient of the external world.

>>19414080
I scored 5 on op's picture but somehow I was able to do this

>>19423107
Okay I just learned I can imagine geometry on command but not color

>>19423107
its all bullshit dude everyone sees a 5 but with different levels of intensity, when you think of an apple you can sorta "feel" the same feel you get when actually looking at an apple, am i wrong?

>>19423235
*1
not 5