/lit/ - Literature

Stupidest possibly world geometries GO

>>19408171
Are these even in any book?

>>19408177
Pretty sure that's just flat earth theory bullshit.

>>19408158
this guy sucks

Is this worth reading?

>>19408177
Hunter X Hunter

Just finished reading Judging Eye (Bakker (pbuh) is good as ever), but I suddenly realised one thing thst didn't make sense: why the fuck is Mimara written like a teenage girl, when she has to be at least 35? Maybe I missed something, but there's been a 20 year timeskip since PoN, Achamian was seeing Esme till that point for years, and he never met Mimara, who was sold into anal slavery as a small child. So she has to be AT LEAST 30, possibly older than Esmenet was in PoN. Yet she's written like a rebellious YA character fresh outta puberty. Did Bakker fuck up or the judging eyes makes her extravirgin pure despite literal decades of getting stretched in a brothel?

>>19408342
It's not terrible, apart from the full flashback books in the middle.

>>19408346
Mimara was probably 26 or 27 post time skip.

>>19408468
That would mean that either Mimara was sold as a fucking infant, or that Achamian fell in love with Esmenet after knowing her for a couple of years, which given his job and medieval logistics means seeing her maybe a couple times.

>>19408504
I'm pretty sure there are more revelations later on in the series, particularly during the White Luck Warrior. I don't entirely recall the whole Achamian/Esmenet/Mimara backstory all too well, but Mimara was already alive by the time Achamian met Esmi, I believe.

>>19408504
Mimará was sold very young yes.

>>19408299
yeah, worth it more than wheel of time

>>19409450
I've read the first 4 books from the Wheel of Time and their were absolute garbage. Like they were an insult to anyone's intelligence. Are those books actually challenging? I have being spoon-fed when I read.

>>19408158
So, is this guy actually worth reading? I see a lot of people argue over him.

>>19408299
Malazan is really divisive because it loves to wipe the slate clean every other book. Also, the very first book is a huge filter for your average reader. Series is an example of epic fantasy where not everything has to build to a single conclusion that ties it all up.

>>19408346
>So she has to be AT LEAST 30
She is in her mid 20s - she was about 5-8 yo when Esmenet sold her.

>>19409462
malazan is great if you hate spoonfeeding, you really have to pay attention.

a lot of the time something is shown and hinted/foreshadowed at super vaguely and if ur paying careful attention you might realise it, then a bit later its done again but more obvious so as long as you are paying attention you'll get it and then evenetually it's made obvious for the speedreaders

>>19409534
>>19409502

Can you read them in any order?

>>19409539
you might be able to I guess.

theres 10 main series books starting with gardens and ending with the cripped god, then there's spin offs and prequels etc.

Imo you should just read chronological first book really is overhated just pay attention and read prechapter poems etc because you get dropped into the action with no infodump, also a lot of characters have multiple names they are called by different people/races kinda like lord of the rings.

>>19408158
All /sffg/fags must hang, twice today

>>19408346
>Yet she's written like a rebellious YA character
Uh, I don't thing you're entirely wrong, albeit a bit unfair. She's not exactly powerful (physically) and what else could you expect from her? She joined the Aspect Emperor's court. And considering her past, it is not unreasonable to think that she rebelled.

>>19409481
He's the Duran Duran of SF. Great for his time, at best competent on a 50 year window.

>>19409564
i could definitely see him being 10x more popular in 20 years

>>19409564
I enjoyed Bakker's works, but I do understand why people praise him like crazy here.

My real problem is that literally no other living fantasy author has produced works with the same quality.
Almost everything else I've read was shit, which is why I mostly read fiction.

>>19408346
>"Why is (woman) character written like a teenager?"
Truly a mystery that will baffle scholars for ages to come.

Why do women write female characters?

Genuinely curious, since I've never read one.

>>19409564
Bakker is definitely going to join the pantheon of classic genre authors 50 years from now

>>19409562
It's not her actions, but rather how she's written that smacks of YA. Her motivation is "I want to destroy the world cuz men are trash but not like for realz lol", she snarkily talks Akka down, and ends up saving everyone with her out the ass chosen one powers. Her character was overall the biggest letdown in the book for me, shame because she has an amazing introduction, her campfire conversation with Akka where she realizes that he's utterly broken and mad and gives him some puss is some of the best shit Bakker ever wrote.

>>19409592
Glen Cook isn't dead yet.

>>19409936
Not quite there.

Any fantasy stories where the main characters love interest is not a fighter?
I feel like it's been a long time since i've read somthing like that.
Maybe she's a healer or isn't even involved in the battles.

>>19409952
Yes, The Bible

>>19409936
The guy from Black Company? Never read him. What can I expect?

>>19410001
Slapdash prose, waifus, and rambling grandpa stories about 'the war'. The man writes to give vent to the demons in his head, and as he gets older his characters get sharper and more kinesthetic despite everything else growing more cursory and vague.

>>19410092
So, not worth it then?

>>19410101
Not a must read, but it's fun. Like Bakker.

>>19410121
What are must reads then? Because I can't think of a single fantasy book that meets that criteria.

Bros, I'm finishing up God Emprah, and I'm definitely reading Heretics and Chapterhouse. Is Brian Herbert truly worse than testicular cancer, or it's just a case of people hating Nickelback for no reason? Surely they can't all be bad, right?

>>19410121
>Not a must read, but it's fun.
This desu. I find myself picking Prince of Nothing apart more than most fantasy I ever read, and simultaneously more driven to read more.

>>19410131
Tolkien, duh.

>>19410142
>Tolkien, duh.
Tolkien is not particularly good. And I'm saying this unironically, not just to trigger a reaction from you.

>>19410140
I really want to read this series, but it looks like one of those things that you've heard about, but know next to nothing about it. I thought it was just one book.

>>19410149
Maybe, but he's still a must read.

I generally don't think that must reads in any genre are necessarily GOATs - they are the elephants in the room whenever you dive into that genre. For example, I disliked most things written by Heinlein, yet I still think it's must read sci-fi.

>>19410140
>Is Brian Herbert truly worse than testicular cancer
Generally comparable to it.

>>19410162
It is, sort of. Dune is a self-contained story, all following novels have quite little to do with Arrakis

>>19410140
I will never understand what drives a son to ruin his father's legacy.

Not like Christopher Tolkien. All he did was publish what his father had already written.

Why does this general suck so much?
It's literally just Bakker and Sandersonposting 100% of the time

>>19410225
Go back to the other general, faggot, Bakkerposting Shines!

>>19410225
>>19409952
I Really didn't ask.

Now fuck off to your schizoid containment general. >>19408172

>>19410236
Based.

>>19410241
oh this was the schizo thread
sorry for intruding

>>19410293
>NO U
I accept your surrender.

>>19410293
You didn't know when it had the faggot ass Bakker as the OP pic?

>>19410140
Are all of those in chronological order?

>>19410225
>Sandersonposting
Not a single mention until now.

>>19410131
Like the other Anon said, if you're qualifying 'must read' as 'fun like Bakker but more so', there might not be anything like that for you. Cook is more fun for me, and I put them at similar literary merit. Which is to say they're equally outclassed by Dunsany, who is indisputably must read, but not as fun.

>>19410223
Its melancholic in a way, watching all the old and popular fantasy or sci fi novels being plundered by big business. For example, love it or hate it, WoT was a work that Jordan dedicated his life to, and it is now being twisted by some talentless fag into his ‘retelling’ (aka, keeping just enough of the good shit to keep people interested while deforming the rest to soapbox).

>>19408158
can anyone help me find the name of this book

its a well known series and it has something to do with mars

it was mentioned by the book chemist but i cant find the video now.

>>19410466
kim stanley robinson?

>>19410451
I never liked WoT, so I really don't care. But it's funny to see them butcher the story nonetheless.

i like how this thread is all but dead, but schizos still bump it to save it. Really makes you think.

>>19410663
Isn't that coming out this month on Amazon?

>>19410663
I enjoyed reading it when I was younger, and imo it was already butchered by Sanderson finishing the series. It’s more so the act; that it’s just being pilfered for cool shit, then the pilferers passing it off as their own sort of creation that depresses me.

Like, it wouldn't be popular or good without the shit they're removing for being toxic or in favour of adding in quotas. But they're keep enough of it to trick people into thinking they can create shit themselves.

>>19410466
Red Rising?

>>19410681
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H5yveVqto
3 Episode premier on Nov. 19.

Still unsure if I will see it. Looks cheap for some reason.

>>19410451
Reminder that Hyperion already got greenlit for adaptation. Everything you love shall be raped and raped again

>>19410451
I can’t see them ever adapting Book of the New Sun, which is reassuring

>>19410673
This thread is more active. The fuck are you on about schizo?

>>19410737
He's fighting desperately to keep the anime shitter one alive.

Just go through it if you don't believe me. Looks like /a/.

So, this is the schizo thread?

>>19410709
>Tom Spezialy adapting
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0818434/
>Known for Watchmen and some Z-list tier shit.
Its over.

>>19410780
they both are
we're all schizos here

>>19410771
I wish we could maintain two of these. Looking at the discussions on the other thread literally made me cringe today.

Glad to see you /sffg/ niggers are fighting back against the animefaggot. Let the people decide!

>>19411011
The anime cuck is posting from multiple proxies and keep the general on life support for months now. Just look at the unoriginal images he posts on every OP.

>>19411074
>>19411011
That and asking repeated, inane and open ended questions to try and bump the thread. Literally no discussion about specific books there, its just
>Has anyone read any good steampunk novels?
>lets talk about manga and romance,
Grim.

>>19411109
Haha I was actually just scrolling by the other one and thought "I bet these open ended questions are a cheap way to get bumps, he should really space them out more and put more effort into them" and then scrolled down to this one and saw your comment

Weird

I will take Bakker-posting over anime any day.

>>19411118
Three in the one thread. Insane. At least Bakker-schizo posting is A) Amusing to read and B) Discussing the actual work 'in depth'. Unironically more worthwhile than 'req me a book' and arguing about how 'anime is totes great lit guyz'.

Pic related

>>19410140
So, did this guy's son write all of the books on the bottom row?

>>19410223
Christopher honored his father. He wasn't intrusive and did his best to publish his father's works, even those who were mostly unfinished.

At least he didn't pull a Bando Sandro on The Unfinished Tales.

>>19411262
Kevin J Anderson probably wrote them and he shared half credit

>>19411262
>>19411662
>>19410140
Is there anything more pathetic than living in your own father's shadow and chose the same artistic career path knowing you will never surpass him?

mnnnhgggggkellhusszzz fuck me kelhuse

>>19412008
P-Proyas?

Based Bakker Chad Thread.

and quintessential sci-fi /lit/ images? just lookin for some good books to stockpile for a /lit/ nub

>>19408299
chain of dogs

>>19408171
>possibly hollow
Hahaha. And it’s filled with dinosaurs!

It's been a bit, /sffg/
Is there an updated degen approved litRPG chart?

>>19413507
tomokodev is that you

>>19410736
you say this but zoomies are gonna move on from blood meridian posting soon into this shit. lets just hope the gate holds another 4 years.

I feel sorry for hawat
God damn

>>19413742
Why?

>>19410140
>I'm finishing up God Emprah, and I'm definitely reading Heretics and Chapterhouse
what made you decide that? i'm reading children of dune and plan to stop at god emperor because, frankly, i have too much other shit i'd like to read.

Haven’t read Neal Stephenson since forever.
Thoughts, you smarmy catamite?

>>19414661
What's a catamite?

>>19414750
homo

>>19414661
what was the last book you read?

Is this true?

>>19414750
>>19414760
A catamite is not just "a homo". A catamite is a young male homosexual prostitute.

>>19414928
Yeah

The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe

This was the first time Wolfe felt like a mere mortal and not some wily but ultimately benevolent mad wizard having a bit of fun at my expense. The story felt too straightforward for a Wolfe book. I was even able to correctly predict plot points a couple times throughout. It's still Wolfe though, which means it's a damn good story with damn good prose topped off with a string of sucker punch reveals that feel almost completely obvious with hindsight. I'll have to brush up on Arthurian and Germanic mythology before my eventual second read.
9/10

>>19415293
Is this fundamentally different from The Book of the New Sun? I certainly can appreciate all the vagueness and surrealism in his writing, but e overdoes it sometimes.

does anyone have good sources of fantasy history/terms/"tropes" etc? I'm normally a sci-fi guy so I'm well acquainted with places like projectrho, technovelgy, and other such repositories for interesting stuff, so I'm wondering if there's fantasy analogs for such sites. Additionally, lists of any fiction from like, pre-human to pre-victorian would be really nice.

sorry to just barge in with a request, i've not had any interest in fantasy until last month and i want to feed this momentum as quickly and heartily as possible

>>19408299
Hard to get going, but worth it eventually.

>>19416005
The most annoying thing about is the constant hopping between continents and times between books.

>>19416005
The default sunk cost response from brainlets.

>>19408158
>mfw reading that fan made prince of nothing timeline/big ass PDF summary was 1000x more interesting than actually reading the books themselves
any other series like this?

>>19416030
No, not really.

>>19416046
Yes, yes really.

>>19416052
I wasn't asking.

>>19416013
It's much easier to view each story as its own thing rather than a continuation of the previous book. Completely different stories told in the same world, rather than one story spread over several novels.
My main complaint would be the lack of exposition on shit like warrens and the deck of dragons. I get I'm not supposed to understand everything right away and it's to give the world a kind of mystique, but sometimes it feels like Erikson's just being a cunt on purpose.

>>19416029
I mean, a little? They're books I don't necessarily love reading, but after I've finished them the stories and characters stick in my mind for ages afterwards.

>>19416096
Over-exposition cheapens any literary work. I like vagueness, as long as it's within the boundaries of the author's world.

Just look at how bad Sanderson is in comparison.

>>19416089
Well you got told anyway.
#gettoldkid

>>19416121
Not my problem.

>>19410709
Good. The series needs to be critically re-examined, so that we can better understand how much about it sucked. Mixing it with shit will help us see.

The good parts will remain with us untouched. I.e. I can still re-read the first book the way it was.

>>19416146
Cope.

>>19416185
I accept your defeat.

I secretly hope that GURM never finishes the next book cause I don't want to re-read the series from the start.

>>19416191
I accept your concession.

Please quote good Bakker quotes that legitimize all the fanboying over him

>>19416212
The books are not good. The setting and ideas are fantastic but the writing itself is dogshit. It starts out okay but gets very, very bad later on.

Just read the fan made plot summary.

>>19416218
By thay logic Wheel of Time is the GOAT series

>>19414928
One Piece worldbuilding is unironically better then Sandersneed, but not because One Piece's world is more than thoroughly mediocre with the exception of a few tiny islands, it is because Cosmere is fucking autistic and reddit/r/worldbuilding incarnate.

>>19416218
Quite the opposite desu.

>>19416221
I read the first book of WoT and it was nothing special

>>19416212

>>19416237
What does it say that she doesn't make the connection that the only guy using the term womanish is a bloodthirsty Barbarian

>>19416218
What a retard post

>>19416237
she's right. the book is filled with incel misogyny kek.

>>19416237
The first paragraph has to take the cake.

She liked the book, despite of her rant.

Christ. Are women and niggers the only people putting out fantasy nowadays?

>>19416249
Not just any bloodthirsty Barbarian either. But a self-hating gay.

>>19416340
He's not gay.

>>19416353
He's bi-sexual then. It's what his entire character revolves around.

>>19416326
any fantasy that isn't faggot globohomo shit is ignored by publishers
to get anywhere nowadays you need to be a nigger, a woman, a tranny or both

>>19416361
That's always been a problem. Goodreads is completely pozzed.

>>19416361
That has always been the problem. Goodreads is completely pozzed.

>>19416353
Fucking retard

>>19416389
Did I hurt your feelings, sweetie?

>>19416232
this. his prose is what I honestly take notes on, but his ideas and setting are simply the first competent confluence of Herbert and Tolkien. Almost nothing to write home about.

>>19416212
>If war does not kill the woman in us, it kills the man.
>- TRIAMIS I, JOURNALS AND DIALOGUES

>The vulgar think the God by analogy to man and so worship Him in the form of the Gods. The learned think the God by analogy to principles and so worship Him in the form of Love or Truth. But the wise think the God not at all. They know that thought, which is finite, can only do violence to the God, who is infinite. It is enough, they say, that the God thinks them.
>- MEMGOWA, THE BOOK OF DIVINE ACTS

>>19416429
>his prose
ah yes, descriptions of jesus psychic kung fu and black demon seed.... what profound prose!

>>19416446
didnt ask

>>19416446
Go read the books before commenting on them.

>>19416502
These people literally got filtered, can't you see? They tried and failed. That's just jealous/desperation posting at this point. Pathetic desu.

>>19416446
Kellhus is barely a side character in the series named after him. Black seed is mentioned a few times in the first novel and never again. Stop falling for the Bakker antis maymays like a faggot.

Prince of Nothing history:

>Elves ('Nonmen' or 'Cunuroi' in the series) were the first people on the planet Earwa
>They knew magic and were incredible warriors. They lived for up to 400 years. They subjugated humans and turned them into slaves
>Giant (and I do mean giant, many miles in length) spaceship crashes down on Earwa, killing countless elves.
>Said spaceship is full of horrors. These horrors are most likely bioweapons made by some long dead race.
>The greatest king of the elves takes this chance to wage war on his fellow elves, to unite all of the clans.
>The king of one of these clans is bitter and wants revenge.
>The horrors send an envoy to this ex-king. They say their crash was an accident and the devastation unplanned.
>They make a deal with the ex-kin to join forces and revolt against the new elven high king
>Shit hits the fan, but the elves win out in the end. However, other elves clan revolt around this time, so the high king goes to deal with that instead of finishing off the space horrors. Big mistake.
>Centuries pass. The high king is old and doesn't have much left to live. The ex-king had joined forces with the space horrors comes back and begs forgiveness. the high king gives him an audience and is shocked when the ex-king is still as youthful as ever.
>The high king says he will forgive the ex-king and the space horrors if they grant the rest of the elves eternal youth.
>The space horrors gave them the eternal youth and immortality they asked for.
>They also released a virus that killed all the elven women and made all the males infertile, thus dooming the race of the elves.
>The elves mount one last, final assault against the space horrors. They kill all of them. Except for two. These two hide for millenia in their spaceship. This spaceship turns out to have a super intelligent AI system onboard and also a 'power armor' that is able to conjure a giant storm and repel magic. This power armor is called the No-god.
>The remaining elves slowly descend into madness as the ages go by. Humans naturally surpass them and become the ruling species on earth. The two remaining space horrors come out from their spaceship and attempt to take over the earth. This is where the book series begins.

>>19416563
>Kellhus is barely a side character in the series named after him
What are you talking about? The entire plot of both series is focused on Kellhus and his actions.

>>19416378
they literally hire "diversity readers" for fantasy books (dumb niggers) to check if the book has enough globohomo poc shit

>>19416585
He's more of a theme than a character, Kellhus is like the One Ring from LOTR

>>19416570
Prince of Nothing current story:

>A group of dudes learn to look at people's faces, and somehow become demigods who are able to dominate humanity by reading facial expressions and sweet talking them. lmao.
>This group interbreeds for a very long time.
>The main character comes from this group and proceeds to take over the world by sweet talking a few people
>There is a copy/pasted crusades storyline here. It seems like the author just took the wiki article of the crusades and changes some names around and called it a day.
>The rest of the story is about the autist MC dominating humanity to try to fight back against the space horrors
>The final battle against the No-God, the MC's child is taken as sacrifice to revive the No-God power armor, the protagonist is killed all of a sudden, the last book of the series ends abruptly with the No-God resurrected and seemingly about to genocide the planet

Oh and btw the space horrors/bioweapons do all of this because they want to reduce the population of intelligent beings on the planet to something like 140k, thus killing millions/billions in the process. They have done this countless times in other planets.

Why are they doing this? To keep the gods from interfering in their reality because apparently when you have that number of intelligent beings, it isn't enough to sustain and give powers to these gods or something. We know nothing about these gods or if they are even real. These space horrors/bioweapons could very likely be insane and are just genocidal maniacs because they are bioweapons with no purpose since the race that created them is long dead.

There. Now you don't have to read this shit.

>>19416612
btw in the latter books there is a giant cannibalism/gay sex/scat orgy in one of the latter books. there is also a dragon who loves the smell of pussy. he loves pawgs.

and no i am not making any of that up.

>here's that literary fantasy you wanted bro

>>19416612
Not asking was committed, back to pleb version of sffg
>>19408172

>>19416618
>>19416612
>>19416570
That doesn't look too bad. I might give it a try.

>>19416640
i actually enjoy the setting and some of the concepts. but the latter books really shit the bed.

>>19408171
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBt_jjCzZAnUvl4zxl_FFuA/videos

Prepare your anus

>>19416597
Seriously, dude?

>>19416711
he is yah

>>19416711
yes. i'm not even joking. they get a 50IQ nigger to check if your story has frizzy haired mullatoes in it
modern fantasy is a joke

>>19416570
>>19416612
>>19416618
Sounds like shit. No wonder the publisher dropped it.

>>19416784
Yeah the first 3 books were promising, but the second trilogy was fucking atrocious. Really no surprise sales tanked and he couldn't get another deal.

>>19416776
Are there any sites good for sff discussions and recommendations that aren't filled with retarded women crying in reviews about the lack of "strong female" leads?

>>19414928
The worldbuilding on sanderson's books is retarded, it is a bunch of random things that makes no sense like animals with precious stones inside them or the hero have to hold his breath so he can use the powers he sucked from a stone and the ultimate reddit tier retarded thing about the world is that men are not allowed to read only woman are so all the intellectuals are woman and all men are analphabets. its bad

he is a pretentious asshole just watch his podcast on his youtube channel

>>19415293
>"Wolfe is our Melville." - Ursula K. Le Guin
there's so much wrong with this

This is the best thread.

>>19416570
I thought the no god was supposed to be an aeon. I'm in the last half of warrior prophet, and in the mandate dreams the no god begs "what do you see? what am I to you?"
and I thought it needed to ask because it had a suspicion that the world viewed it as a horrible demon bringing destruction and nothingness (that of course being the case). its own "self perception", having come from the pleroma to cleanse the flawed material world, isn't malicious.
the twisted accidental universe of material skewed the truth of the savior aeon into impossible horror.

and then the mandate gnosis would be awareness of the mystery (or call it falsehood) of "the god" and the divine cults. but for some reason still perceiving the no god as evil.

I was kinda aware of aliens and their originating "the tekne" but thought that was just another element in the world

>>19416957
We won.

>>19416570
>>19416612
>>19416618
wtf I love bakker now

>>19416803
>Are there any sites good for sff discussions and recommendations that aren't filled with retarded women crying in reviews about the lack of "strong female" leads?
apart from 4chan then not really. there's probably a few boomer forums and facebook groups about but even those are getting trannified at a huge rate

>>19409564
>Great for his time
So who would you say wrote better dark fantasy since then?

>>19417387
>dark fantasy
I fucking hate that retarded label.

What's the best light fantasy?

>>19417548
What do you mean?

My feed stink.

Any books for this feel?

>>19417566
IF there's dark fantasy there must be light fantasy

Fifth Head of Cerberus Book of the New Sun many of his '70s and '80s short stories The Sorcerer's House The Land Across Peace An Evil Guest Pandora, by Holly Hollander

What Wolfe book should I read next? Is 'Long Sun' too different from BotNS?

>>19417864
Who the fuck is that guy?

Bakker probably looks kind of old
If he isn't dead

Hasn't he updated his Blog yet?

>>19417387
Wolfe and Vance come to mind. I agree dark fantasy is a gay label, and you're moving the goalpost when you phrase it like that. You'd have to narrow the field down to Canadian gay molestation fiction before Bakker looks like a great writer, and even that is probably ignorant hate speech from someone with no knowledge of the Canadian boy touching community.

>>19417886
>>19417891

>>19416353
>>19416358
>>19416389
Is he actually gay though, or did he just get Dunyain'd? They can manipulate people pretty damn hard after all. Kellhus literally convinces people to love him, genuinely love him, in very short spaces of time.

>>19416570
>Elves
Nonmen are more a combination of elves and dwarves, I think. They're like all the generic elder races rolled into one them made edgy.

>>19418229
They're like a subsersion of typical uppity elves who behave as smug cunts for eternal eons. Nonmen are all deranged schizos who lost all touch with reality
>The scalpers, Achamian could tell, thought them representations of devils: More than a few whispered homespun charms. But he knew better, recognizing in the figures a sensibility kindred to that of the Wolf Gate. It wasn't monsters that glared from the walls, he knew, but rather the many poses of natural beasts compressed into one image. Before they began forgetting, the Nonmen had been obsessed with the mysteries of time, particularly with the way the present seemed to bear the past and the future within it.
>Long-lived, they had worshipped Becoming... the bane of Men.
>They had palmed their lives, as the Conriyans were fond of saying. They had palmed them and given them to a Nonman - to an Erratic... To someone who was not only insane, but literally addicted to trauma and suffering. Incariol... Who was he? And more importantly, what would he do to remember?
>Kuss voti lura gaial, the High Norsirai would say of their Nonmen allies during the First Apocalypse. "Trust only the thieves among them." The more honourable the Nonman, the more likely he was to betray - such was the perversity of their curse. Achamian had read accounts of Nonmen murdering their brothers, their sons, not out of spite, but because their love was so great. In a world of smoke, where the years tumbled into oblivion, acts of betrayal were like anchors; only anguish could return their life to them. The present, the now that Men understood, the one firmly fixed at the fore of what was remembered, no longer existed for the Nonmen. They could find its semblance only in the blood and screams of loved ones.

>>19417375
honestly, would love if there's a /sffg/ channel on irc. i know there *might* be one on Discord, but i can't stand using that shit platform.

>>19418199
Maybe Dunyain'd, or maybe he was latent homo and Moe was able to read him and take advantage of him. But at least he has his skin spy servant wear Serwe's face and not Moe's so he's not that gay

>>19414928
Sandersnore wishes he could foreshadow like Oda.

>>19418628
Even Will Wight writes better smdh

>>19418679
Nah, he stagnated too and hit a point where his writing never improved, like Sandersnore. Early Cosmere was rife with great ideas and theorycrafting; now it's a convoluted fucking mess because it'll never be completed, it grew too big, and he wants it to become a brand, like Marvel.

>>19418628
Anime is for children.

>>19418199
How is someone with multiple wives, offspring and who's "love" for Serwe was so evident can be gay? He's bisexual at best, but even that is debatable.

>>19416326
johm gwynne isnt either of the two, but he sucks regardless

>>19416326
I unironically never heard of a single author on that list.

>>19419682
In case you missed it, Cnaiur's entire life was about proving Moenghus wrong. He spent 30 years larping as big dick gigachad, fucking and killing as a 'look I'm totally straight you guise!' statement of denial that he loved Moe and was a poofster in a culture that tolerated no poofsters. Naturally Scylvendi couldn't take this shit seriously and plotted to kill him. Kellhus at some point blankly explains that Cnaiur never loved Serwe, she was his proof (as in, a shield) against against faggotry which he mistook for manipulation. But Dunyain do not manipulate, they only condition what's there already.
Not to mention the episode where Cnaiur, ahem, "disciplines" Conphas.

>>19419821
His rape of Conphas was just a power play. I never got any sense it was done out of attraction, just domination. But, yeah, Cnaiur was definitely a faggot.

>>19419821
So, is Proyas gay too?

>>19414928
Both are shit.

>>19418628
>wan piss
Fuck off to >>>/a/

>>19408158
bakkerfags: write me a 2-3 paragraph analysis of one of your favorite scenes from any of his books and maybe i will read it. please provide a proper hook and 2 or 3 supporting reasons for you argument. remember to end it with a nice conclusion. get it done before the end of the thread for full credit

if no one does this then i know it's just a meme and all of his readers are illiterates idiots who can't write a persuasive essay to formulate their thoughts

>>19419990

>>19420000
nice quads but that gets an F. my research indicates that 4chanites respond best to mocking criticism of media so i expect the essays to come rolling in in just a few minutes as anger-motivated hands type /lit/-worthy arguments

>>19420000
Based.

I really enjoyed Bakker, but I do not give a single fuck if people read him or not.

@19419990
Who the fuck are you for anyone to waste time on you?

>>19419990
One of my favourite scenes is right in the beginning of The Darkness That Comes Before. Kellhus, upon leaving Temple Ishual, takes an arduous trek through the frozen lands, and nearly succumbs to the elements, brought into a catatonic state by sensory overload acquired from his Dunyain training. He's saved by a lonely trapper named Leweth, who nurses Kellhus back to health and eventually forms what he belives to be a deep friendship with him. However, to Kellhus Leweth is no more than a subject to study, barely sentient worldborn man consumed by the darkness that precedes him. Eventually, both are on the run from the ravenous Sranc monsters, Leweth is wounded and cannot go on. Kellhus, realizing that the man has outlived his usefulness for him, leaves poor Leweth as a bait for Sranc, feeling no remorse. But before he departs, Kellhus leans over Leweth's shoulder and whispers softly - "Not my problem".

>>19420050
>Kellhus leans over Leweth's shoulder and whispers softly - "Not my problem".

So who was the Nonman in the Darkness that Comes Before?

>>19420063
Nonmen are a race

>>19420068
No, Nonmen are. Only one Nonman shows up in The Darkness That Comes Before.

>>19420073
Cet’ingira, also known as Mekeritrig

>>19420078
That is not revealed in the books, is it?

>>19408504
>or that Achamian fell in love with Esmenet after knowing her for a couple of years, which given his job and medieval logistics means seeing her maybe a couple times.
yeah he did.

>>19416358
No it's not you fucking retard. Imagine reading something and just writing it off as some infantile coming out story. There's so much more to it and he's not really gay. He's gay for one man only.

>>19420078
He says that he fought both against and for consult in apocalypse so no way it's him. Probably just some erratic of no particular importance who has nothing better to do than squat in a forest.

>>19420112
last book I think
>>19420134
https://princeofnothing.fandom.com/wiki/Cet%E2%80%99ingira

>>19420206
I thought that Bakker revealed it in an interview.

>>19420134
Literally every Nonman in existence fought against the consult at some point.

>>19420226
cet'ingira formed the consult with shaeönanra, aurax and aurang, all nonmen have fought against the inchoroi but the consult was formed after the cuno-inchoroi war
the consult and the inchoroi are not the same thing and the consult didnt exist when the nonment fought the inchoroi
no one whos gazed into the inverse fire would fight against the consult not even an erratic and cet'ingira gazed into it before/when the consult was formed

i cant remember if the nonman kellhus meets specifies if he fought against the consult or if he says golgotterath or the inchoroi or whatever but if he specifically says the consult then he cant be cet'ingira or hes lying since cet'ingira formed it and has never fought against it

>>19420262
Mekeritrig was a double agent for the consult. After gazing into the inverse fire he killed the other two nonmen with him and returned pretending to be sane still.

>>19420262
He says for and agains the No-God

SHUT UP!!!!

I DON'T WANT TO RE-READ BAKKER!!!!

But I'm tempted...

>>19420282
that was like 1000 years before the mengaecca became involved and the consult was formed hence why i was saying its important to distinguish talking about the inchoroi or the consult but
>>19420283 says he says the no-god which means its not cet'ingira or hes lying

>>19420309
Ugh, I thought when he said against the No-God it didn't necessarily imply that the No-God was "alive". But I might be wrong.

>>19419695
How does he suck?
People here seem to like Malice.

>>19419704
Because it seems only women, faggots, niggers, or a combination of the three only read fantasy, which is a real shame.

>>19420317
no one knew the no-god even existed during the times when cet'injgira fought against the inchoroi or even when he was being a double agent but i guess he could be being weird in his phrasing and you could interpret that way, or hes just being dishonest or crazy

he was certainly a lot more lucid in the unholy consult than he was then though if it is him and i dont remember anything implying it was him directly in the books

>>19420346
There was also no mention of his skin cloak and his Armour or sword in TUC, which was rather strange in my opinion.

>>19419882
>an extremely pious politician of high rank
>never seen visiting prostitutes, unlike even the more zealous Inrithi priests
>not a single thought or opinion about a women when he's POV
>spent his childhood drooling for Akka
>spent his YA drooling for Maithanet
>spent the rest of his life drooling for Kellhus
>literally does the homoseks with Kellhus
Why do you even have to ask?

>>19420392
>if a married man with children gets raped by jesus that makes him gay

>>19420402
If a man spent his entire life dreaming of being raped by Jesus so that finally someone appreciates him - no beard wife can hide the issue.

>>19420434
being raped by said messiah was so horrible and unwanted for this married and virtuous man that it was the only way the messiah could stop him from believing in him even after being told by said messiah that he was false directly means hes not gay

>>19408299
Malazan good

>>19420484
What series did Le Guin write?

>>19420518
Anon Ursula Le Guin has nothing to do with Guin Saga. She wrote Earthsea.

>>19420573

>>19416030
Post pdf link

>>19420621
Pretty sure there isn't one.

>>19419125
I don't think you are correct. The worst thing he ever wrote was the ending of the Wheel of Time.

>>19420670
>The worst thing he ever wrote was the ending of the Wheel of Time.
Sorry, haven't read it yet.

>>19420798
The Wheel of Time or the ending of it?

Can somebody help me recall something?

There’s a book that’s is some way tied to Gene Wolfe, but it’s authored by someone else. I think maybe he just praised it? Or have it publicity?

Anyway, it’s title is something akin to “The Wizard Knight”. Not that obviously, but something in that sphere of generic fantasy title. The Wizards Apprentice, The Mage Apprentice, etc. anyone know what I’m talking about?

>>19420670
I’ll take Sanderson over what the Amazon live adaption is gonna do to WoT.

>>19420799
both

>>19420846
If you wanna know how bad is it going to be, just know that Sanderson bailed from that project immediately.

>>19420936
Source?

>>19420938
It was an interview posted on /tv/ yesterday, didn't save the link...
If you stalk the wot threads on /tv/ you should be able to find, it gets posted often.
It was a snippet where the director (or screenwriter? Both?) talked how he discussed with Sanderson about the changes for the show.
Sanderson said some were really, REALLY bad changes and the other guy said that they were gonna ignore his complains and keep going.

You literally can't make this shit up

>>19420970
What the fuck does "Unproblematic" even mean?

>>19421041
Woke, SJW. Lacking in traditional values.

>>19421041
in this case it means not harry potter

>>19421067
Isn't Dumbledore gay?

>>19421079
That doesn't mean anything when Rowling said women menstruate.

>>19421092
Is this an American meme? Because I seriously don't get it.

>>19421111
There's no meme. She said women menstruate. This is a transphobic statement so the people with colored hair all turned on her. This is what happened, literally.

>>19421111
She dabbed on trannies and is now a persona non grata

>>19421126
>>19421122
What's the problem with saying that women menstruate. It's a fact of life, is it not?

>>19421130
It is a fact, but you don't understand that trannies are mentally ill.

Started reading White-Luck Warrior
>mfw Mimara starts hatefully bullying Soma because he abandoned her in Cil-Aujas
What the fuck is her problem? Bitch you didn't suck his dick, you barely even spoke to him and ignored all his awkward incel advances. He owes you literally fucking nothing, and now you won't forgive him because he left you when you all were running away from Satan? I'm starting to think Bakker wants me to hate women.

>>19421177
>He doesn't know...

>>19420970
and then they wonder why people don't read

>>19421383
Have you read any of those?

>>19421450
Yes. Earthsea is the only good novel there.

>>19408158
What was the point of Kellhus assraping Proyas?

>>19421494
Utterly break him and degrade him in order to survive the meat craze.

>>19421514
How do those things work together?

>>19408158
When people dis fantasy—mainstream readers and SF readers alike—they are almost always talking about one sub-genre of fantastic literature. They are talking about Tolkien, and Tolkien's innumerable heirs. Call it 'epic', or 'high', or 'genre' fantasy, this is what fantasy has come to mean. Which is misleading as well as unfortunate.

Tolkien is the wen on the arse of fantasy literature. His oeuvre is massive and contagious—you can't ignore it, so don't even try. The best you can do is consciously try to lance the boil. And there's a lot to dislike—his cod-Wagnerian pomposity, his boys-own-adventure glorying in war, his small-minded and reactionary love for hierarchical status-quos, his belief in absolute morality that blurs moral and political complexity. Tolkien's clichés—elves 'n' dwarfs 'n' magic rings—have spread like viruses. He wrote that the function of fantasy was 'consolation', thereby making it an article of policy that a fantasy writer should mollycoddle the reader.

That is a revolting idea, and one, thankfully, that plenty of fantasists have ignored. From the Surrealists through the pulps—via Mervyn Peake and Mikhael Bulgakov and Stefan Grabiński and Bruno Schulz and Michael Moorcock and M. John Harrison and I could go on—the best writers have used the fantastic aesthetic precisely to challenge, to alienate, to subvert and undermine expectations.

Of course I'm not saying that any fan of Tolkien is no friend of mine—that would cut my social circle considerably. Nor would I claim that it's impossible to write a good fantasy book with elves and dwarfs in it—Michael Swanwick's superb Iron Dragon's Daughter gives the lie to that. But given that the pleasure of fantasy is supposed to be in its limitless creativity, why not try to come up with some different themes, as well as unconventional monsters? Why not use fantasy to challenge social and aesthetic lies?

Thankfully, the alternative tradition of fantasy has never died. And it's getting stronger. Chris Wooding, Michael Swanwick, Mary Gentle, Paul di Filippo, Jeff VanderMeer, and many others, are all producing works based on fantasy's radicalism. Where traditional fantasy has been rural and bucolic, this is often urban, and frequently brutal. Characters are more than cardboard cutouts, and they're not defined by race or sex. Things are gritty and tricky, just as in real life. This is fantasy not as comfort-food, but as challenge.

The critic Gabe Chouinard has said that we're entering a new period, a renaissance in the creative radicalism of fantasy that hasn't been seen since the New Wave of the sixties and seventies, and in echo of which he has christened the Next Wave. I don't know if he's right, but I'm excited. This is a radical literature. It's the literature we most deserve.
>t. China Mieville

>>19421372
I will never understand this meme.

>>19416361
This is what untalented hacks actually believe in order to cope with not being good enough.

>>19421624
You're not really missing out on anything. It's like elementary school levels of "hehee naughty word" humor, which explains its success here.

>>19421650
I meant the original meme with the entire description associated with it. This is just a niche version of it.

>>19421650
>It's like elementary school levels of "hehee naughty word" humor
That only applied to the original joke in the Simpsons and is better than the shitty "meme" which itself isn't even about the actual joke. Sneed is just about saying Sneed and that's it, it's the culmination of shapeless, contentless "meme" culture.

no u

>>19419990
Tick tock, bakkerfags. Only one of you managed a meme paragraph.

tiggety tock
tiggety tock
imagine the surface tension of water
and again
strange
we are drowning
it fills your precious breathing organs
fools
fools
do not mess with water

>Schizo hours

heehee look at all those useless breathing holes

>>19421518
He needed proyas to think like a realist and not like a true believer

>>19421775
didn't ask

>>19421859
I don't understand why people can't see this.

>>19421883
when was the last time you saw a single effort post here? the only people of any value are the review anon and the people who continue to make the threads (without a shitty OP). everything else is just shit memes or 1-2 line opinion worth as much as salt in the ocean. the fact that anyone considers this the "best place to discuss literature" is pathetic

>>19421564
this is what happens when you see art (specifically literature) as a political/ideological tool instead of, you know, art

>>19421986
ok, but exactly where did I ask?

>>19421986
Didn't ask.
Not my Problem.
Don't care.

>>19422002
>>19422014
besides the fact that i'm just better than you in general, it doesn't really matter whether or not you open your filth-filled mouth to ask

>>19422034
I accept your surrender.

>>19422047
Based.

>besides the fact that i'm just better than you in general, it doesn't really matter whether or not you open your filth-filled mouth to ask

Wtf, I thought the Aes Sedai were supposed to be hot milfs.

>>19422281
I bet you thought the dragon reborn was supposed to be a man too, shitlord.

>>19421564
Tolkien is great and Mieville is shit

>>19410131
Just read Malazan you fucking faggot, then read The Black Company.

>>19416361
why can't you pose as a tranny in order to get published? i genuinely considered becoming a tranny (in name) to get work recently.

>>19422546
I did read the Malazan until he drops the flashback book about the shadow elves in the middle. I couldn't give two shits. It's bad writing.

Just finished reading the Wisdom of Crowds. What an ending, wew. Rip Orso.
I look forward to the next trilogy and or standalone novels in the series.

>>19422980
How good was it?

>>19423013
Pretty good, lots of payoff from the other two books in the trilogy. It had a bit of my usual problem with Abercrombie's writing where stuff is simultaneously super telegraphed and also seemingly rushed out of nowhere. The end of the book has lots of his usual last act twists and turns (that he blatantly sets up hundreds of pages in advance) and the middle has some character arcs that kind of read like they're on fast forward but it still maintains the usual level of quality. I was really worried going into the Age of Madness after reading the Shattered Sea trilogy, which I hated, but my fears were unfounded (except for a few bits in the second book). I definitely rate it.

>>19420323
have you read the books? its ok if you enjoy sanderson and stuff.
The mc is your typical village boy who struggles with right and more right, he finds a magic wolf and their relationship is very strong, his friends, people who fight for him die and he does not give a second thought, his wolf suffers a scratch and his concern goes on for half a page.
The mc's sister is fiery (both with tongue and limbs) with every perceived enemy, the cartoonish villains are always "next time i'll not be so indulgent" and someone in the background saying "i like her". The villains here are the king-of-kings and his chief demon (literally walking the earth in human form), no lashings, maiming or even a little slap, nothing and this is when she is a literal who.
You have strong woymn (five foot somethings killing ten feet giants), one becomes adept at politicking without any background, rogues with heart of gold with the not women and children platitudes, inept administration (in one kingdom, there is a seat of power, and a fortnight's ride away lies the rebel stronghold in a marshy area, no one (not the kings councillor for many years) can even locate it, but there people aplenty.
Read it if you want, it is a hilariously contrived book .

>>19423153
I have read Sanderson.

Never again.

Did this poll actually happen?

How legitimate is it?

>>19423725
Yes, 0%.

>>19423725
That was during peak /sffg/. I was there when that poll was first posted.
Seems legit.

>>19423725
Here's the poll itself
https://www.strawpoll.me/42645655/r

Here's the posts it was in:
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.strawpoll.me%2F42645655

>>19423725
What the fuck? I thought that Bakker was just a meme.

Is he really that popular around here?

>>19423765
No, he isn't. By any measure not easily manipulated he isn't.

>>19423765
Bakker is unironically the best living fantasy author. He is extremely popular here.

>>19423765
He will ruin all other fantasy for you.
That's how good he is.

>>19423725
this was from thr glory days of the great ordeal before the once-noble coterie fell to the madness of the meat and the constant attacks by the chinkshitters/sanderfags. o’, what glories we once revelled in, when once we were…. brothers.

Next thread should be /BTW/ - Bakker, Tolkien, Wolfe.

>>19420518
She's a woman. No one cares.

>>19414943
So, yourself.

>>19423765
>Is he really that popular around here?
No.

>>19423840
Back to your containment thread!

>>19423840
He is, though.

>>19423816
based

Did Bakker ever read Wolfe, or vice-versa?

Thread Breakdown By Posters
75 total posters
1 poster had 100+ posts
1 poster had 50+ posts.
4 posters had 20+ posts
The rest had 1.5 posts each on average.

>Thread Breakdown By Posters
>75 total posters
>1 poster had 100+ posts
>1 poster had 50+ posts.
>4 posters had 20+ posts
>The rest had 1.5 posts each on average.

>>19411109
>>19411074
>>19411074
He's still seething right here in this thread.
Literally rent free.

>>19423876
>not charging them rent
You've swindled yourself.

>>19423885
Didn't ask.

>>19423888
Did respond.

>>19423891
Not my problem.

>>19423894
Still responded.

>>19423859
Or each poster posted an average of 3-5 times, which has been the running average in /sffg/ for years. Kys

>>19423859
That's actually good. Are you new here?

>>19423899
Clearly and evidently wrong as made obvious by the arguing in this thread, including right now.

>>19423913
You should take English classes.

>>19423922
They don't teach Bakker there.

>>19423922
At least we know why he hates Bakker. He literally can't read him.

>>19424000
One doesn't read Bakker. Bakker reads you.

>>19423859
how the fuck do you think youre gonna prove this

>>19424268
Do not doubt the inverse fire.