/lit/ - Literature

>>19401457
fuck off retard, you will never impress anyone irl with this cringe shit, and you will never find spiritual consolation either.

also we both know you don't even go to church so stop larping

>>19401463
fpbp

Continue with the Cappadocians. St. Basil, St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Gregory of Nazianus are rad, especially on the Holy Trinity

>>19401471
Thanks you, fren, but I'm not sure that's a very helpful rec. Those are three authors with vast corpora and if one of them has a work entitled "On the Holy Trinity" I can't find it.

Should I skip them and Chrysostom as too diffuse and just read someone like John of Damascus instead? Seems more manageable?

>>19401592
Perhaps check out St. Gregory of Nyssa’s “The Life of Moses” if you want a specific work

>>19401652
Cool.

Origen, or go fuck your mother.

Rules of Benedict
Short, concise, insightful, and valuable

>>19401784
Quality rec.

>>19401457
You could read in chronological orfer: the apostolic fathers, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch then the apologetic fathers. Check the ante nicene, nicene and post nicene collections by Philip Schaff.

For me it's Ignatius of Antioch.

The Gnostics

>>19401457
>men who had zero to do with actually founding the church which already existed before them
>fathers

>>19401913
same

Since this seems to be the thread to ask, who is the most pessimistic of the fathers of the church? what early christian work is similar to Ecclesiastes?

>>19401457
I can't imagine a more irrelevant, bigger waste of time than reading copetexts from late roman schizophrenics.

>>19402408
With Christ risen from the dead there is no room for pessimism. It’s the great hope and promise of what is to come. If Ecclesiastes is doomer mode, the New Testament is peak bloomer whitepill.

>>19402451
BASED
L
E
S
S
E
D

>>19401463
Insane seething

>>19402216
But they’re the ones who wrote the dogmatic discourse, what would the larpers talk about if it wasn’t for them?

>>19402408
>>19402451
>>19402539
Smells like samefag

>>19402428
I think you overestimate the flavor of these banal texts
but then agian what would I exspect from the lost puppy of deluze and gattari

>>19402660
You might as well be reading Warhammer lore all day you fucking faggot

>>19402682
If two people agree on something but one misinterprets the other as disagreeing do the really agree at all?
I dont think so
I hope to see you on a wire one day. A thin one

>>19402658
Always

>>19402658
(You) just smell like a fag.

>>19402653
The Holy Bible (and that/those which is/are "in it") is all that is needed to read or talk about.

>>19402686
Holy shit you really are schizo

>>19401457
You're going to Hell for believing in God

>>19401457
Read him
>>19401463
I will pray for this poor soul

>>19402451
How is the New Testament a white pill if you can work your ass off trying to be a good Christian but still suffer for eternity if God judges you to be unworthy?

>>19402781
>How is the New Testament a white pill if you can work your ass off trying to be a good Christian but still suffer for eternity if God judges you to be unworthy?
I feel as if such a person would not be going to hell

>>19401463
What else will give my life value?

test

>>19401463

>>19405293
You’re pathetic

>>19405359
Yes Sir, Hello? Sir? Hello please pick up

>>19405293
Based and blessed.
>>19405378
May God have mercy upon (You) and us all.

>>19401457
I once devoted a considerable share of time and attention to the fathers. But, I scruple not to acknowledge, that, after a while I desisted from this study as barren and unimproving. Some excellent things are, indeed, interspersed in their writings: but the golden grains are almost lost amidst an infinity of rubbish. "If a man," says Dr. Young, "was to find one pearl in an oyster of a million, it would hardly encourage him to commence fisherman for life." So say I, of the fathers in general. Even supposing (what I can by no means grant,) that the harvest of instruction would recompense the toil of breaking up the ground; a life-time would hardly suffice to read the fathers with care: and, perhaps, two life-times would scarcely enable a reader to digest them completely. That knowledge which is truly important, lies in a much narrower compass. I am quite of his mind, who said Unus Augustinis, præ mille Patribus; et unus Paulus præmille Augustinus. One page of St. Austin is worth a thousand of most other fathers; but one page of St. Paul is worth a thousand of St. Austin's. I speak not to this, to depreciate the labours of such learned persons as have trod the paths of what is called primitive antiquity; but simply to profess the idea, I cannot help entertaining, of the vanity and unprofitableness, with which I apprehend this kind of chace to be generally attended. If any are otherwise minded, let them follow the chace, and prosper.

>>19401592
St. John of Damascus's exposition of the Orthodox Faith is very good. It clears up so many things. Maybe after it you can return to the Cappadocians, while already having the more advanced terminology of the later fathers.

>>19402408
>Ecclesiastes
>pessimistic
lol
you probably think Job is an epic atheist tale about how 'evil' God is or something...

>>19401457
St. Basil's Hexaemeron.
St. Cyril of Alexandria's Glaphyra on the Pentateuch.
For some quality OT stuff.

>>19406136
Based Toplady. But I suspect much of that is because the fathers tended to write series of sermons or letters rather than more focused systematic works (other than Augustine).

My purpose in starting this thread was to identify either systematic treatises (like Exposition of the Orthodox Faith or Life of Moses) or collections of excerpts (like From Glory to Glory, recced in a different thread) where the density of pearls is greater.

>>19406136
>desisted from this study as barren and unimproving
Prot arrogance.

>>19401457
After you read Augustine skip to the Evangelical Fathers.

>>19406342
I'd rather have a sister in the whorehouse than a full set of JC Ryle on my bookshelf.

>>19406404
This, the sister would have infinitely higher chance of salvation than anyone following that garbage theology.

start with calling no man father

>>19402781
>How is the New Testament a white pill if you can work your ass off trying to be a good Christian but still suffer for eternity if God judges you to be unworthy?

When you actually convert, you'll realize that keeping God's word and commandments is not a toil, but the purest form of happiness one can achieve in life.

>>19401463
>you will never impress anyone irl with this cringe shit
Begone Satan. One seek the words of the fathers not for vainity, but for wisdom

>also we both know you don't even go to church so stop larping
If he doesn't, he will start going. Impossible to have a deep understanding of the Lord and not come to His Presence.

>>19406632
Friendly reminder that every early Christian believed in the Real Presence, baptizing infants, Liturgies, the Ever Virginity of the Theotokos, baptizing infants, and Synergism

Eusebius
- Chronicles (from Adam to Christ)
- Ecclesiastical History (covering 33AD to 324AD)
- Onomasticon (geographical treatise of Roman Palestine)

Greek Fathers - ~170AD-1350AD, Greece/Syria/Asia Minor
Justin Martyr (100-165AD)
Irenaeus (130-202AD)
Athenagoras (133-190AD)
Clement of Alexandria (150-215AD)
Origen (184-253AD)
Athanasius (296-373AD)
Epihanius of Salamis (310-403)
Basil the Great (330-379)
Gregory of Nyssa (335-395AD)
Gregory Nazianzus (329-390AD)
John Chrystostom (347-407AD)
Cyril of Alexandria (376-444AD)
John Climacus (579-649AD)
Maximus the Confessor (580-662AD)
John of Damascus (675-749AD)

Desert Fathers - ~250-400AD
Anthony the Great (251-356AD)
Pachomius the Great (292-348AD)
Macarius the Great (300-391AD)
Moses the Black (330-405AD)

Latin Fathers - ~150AD-1270AD
Tertullian (155-220AD)
Cyprian of Carthage (210-258AD)
Pope Damascus I (305-384AD)
Hilary of Poitiers (310-367AD)
Ambrose of Milan (340-397AD)
Jerome (342-420AD)
Augustine (354-430AD)
John Cassian (360-435AD)
Leo the Great (400-461AD)
Benedict of Nursia (480-548AD)
Gregory the Great (540-604AD)
Isidore of Seville (560-636AD)
Bede (672-735AD)
Peter Damian (1007-1073AD)
Anselm of Canterbury (1033-1109AD)
Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153AD)
Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179AD)
Anthony of Padua (1195-1231AD)
Albertus Magnus (1200-1280AD)
Bonaventure (1221-1274AD)
Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274AD)

>>19406788
Both Origen and Tertullian are condemned heretics.

>>19406654
Wrong, "ever virgin Mary" wasn't established in the church until 4th century. Before that it was a Gnostic fan fiction (Gospel of James). Enjoy having been fooled by Satan and still be simping for him.

>>19406891
Origen is the greatest Christian thinker in history.

>>19406920
Just because something is codified by an Ecumenical Council doesn't mean that the belief didn't pre-date the Council. This is a very typical Protestant misunderstanding where you all think the Councils brought all these changes to Christian belief. They codified the True Faith in order to defend it against the heresies, such as yours, popping up around it.
>>19406924
I imagine you and the guy I just replied to are the same person so yeah, you're a joke.

>another christian thread where the dominant posters are bitter, hostile, venomous, gatekeeping cunts bragging about others going to hell

sad

>>19406930
We know from the specifics of the 4th century debate that it was absolutely not an established church belief. Read moar.

>>19406654
do you have a single bible verse to back that up

>>19406924
>greatest thinker
>broo bodies are evil! we will be like... spheres man!!!
>also satan is saved and we can fall again in the eschaton!!!

>>19406960
>I love being a Christian, it's all about regurgitating summaries of theology I watched on Youtube and picking my favorite denomination and church father like a starter pokemon!

>>19406935
This is why so many people are larping as Orthodox nowadays — they get to throw dogma around and call people heretics while wasting their life because their delusion is based on the promise that they’ll go to heaven.

>>19406653
>Begone Satan. One seek the words of the fathers not for vainity, but for wisdom

lmao any criticism or pointing out how cringe all you larpers are and you get “b-b-begone satan!!”

>>19406970
>their delusion is based on the promise that they’ll go to heaven
>calling Christ's promise a delusion
I wonder who this poster works for...

Fwiw I'm OP and I'm not Orthodox. Just interested in historic Christianity. Sorry if I have caused offense. Maybe I'll just read Joel Osteen or whoever.

>>19406994
Copleston has some really nice overviews of early Christian philosophy going into Pseudo-Dionysius and Eriugena in his Medieval Philosophy volume. The one I read had Jewish and Islamic philosophy as well, and then moved on to Christian scholastic philosophy and its development. It was a nice overview. But he started with the major church fathers and mentioned a lot of little things I otherwise never would have known.

>>19406994
If you’re interested in scholarly stuff then Bart Ehrman is a good primer. He’s pigheaded on some issues but I think that’s just because he’s old at this point. He’s great at bringing centuries of scholarship together into very understandable and un-academic explanations.

I’d also read into the Gnostics so you can learn about all the Christianities from the earliest centuries.

>>19407029
>Bart Ehrman

>>19407023
>Pseudo-Dionysius
>pseudo

>>19407044
He's not the worst biblical scholar if you can read around some of his prejudices, but I don't think I'd trust him on patristics.

>>19401463
More christfugees from /pol/

>>19407047
Yes, literally the guy from Acts wrote wacked out neoplatonic treatises using philosophical vocabulary of several centuries later. This happened.

>>19407023
>Pseudo-Dionysius
>

>>19406977
>"fuck off retard"
>criticism
>cringe larpers like the most influential writers of the past 2000 years
Atrocious post, you're an idiot

>>19407069
>philosophical vocabulary of several centuries later.
ah yes, the neoplatonic vocabulary of the new testament...
but I guess it was also written in 600 AD secretely by a hindu.

>>19406891
If you think reading the works of incredibly important Christian thinkers should not be allowed, then you should have a lot of beef with St. Irenaeus, who plumbed the entire corpus of the Gnostics. There is literally nothing wrong with reading people with heretical beliefs, as long as the intention is to take what is good and right and integrate it, and to develop a strong refutation of that which is unorthodox.

>>19407029
>Bart Ehrman
Yikes!

https://biblehub.com/library/early.htm

>>19407075
>cringe larpers like the most influential writers of the past 2000 years

Larpers obsessing over the writings of schizos leaping as Jews

>>19407099
> Proclus is in the New Testament
No one said he was a Hindu. He's an important Father, just post Nicene.

>>19407069
>an ex philosopher from athens used philosophical language
Oh no Christianity has been refuted!

>>19406920
Martin Luther himself wrote hymns to the Theotokos and venerated her as an Ever Virgin. Only later Protestants deny this.. You won't find a single Church Father that says otherwise

>>19406970
Most people LARP as Roman Catholic because it allows them to act smug toward literally everyone.
>dumb prots don't understand traditions
>dump larpagans got their magic tree cut down
>dumb fedoras don't understand aquinas
>dumb muslims aren't as successful as christian europeans
>dumb orthodox think the holy spirit is emanated from the father alone

Friendly reminder that no genuine, meaningful Christian discourse happens on 4chan. Go find a church near you and visit. Ask a priest your questions

>>19407224
>Martin Luther being wrong too somehow matters

>>19407131
>Proclus
Who stole from St. Dionisius and St. Paul. What's the problem?

>>19407230
but in reality it's more like
>prots believe the same thing, they just don't have the full truth, martin luther had his reasons and was a holy man.
>pagans worship god in their own way even when making sacrifice to idols and can be saved, invincible ignorance!
>fedoras really can't be blamed for not believing because they aren't culpable if there is invincible ignorance
>muslims are our brothers in abraham, the quran is a holy book
>orthodox are the same as us, it's just linguistic differences

>>19407347
>pagans worship god in their own way

The most condescending thing I’ve read in a long time holy shit

>>19407556
>The most condescending thing I’ve read in a long time holy shit

>>19407556
they actually say this though.

>>19401457
Eusebius of Caesarea and John of Damacus. Then go through a list of all the Church Fathers in chronological order.

>>19407562
Schizoid’s retort: “oh yeah well you’re a demon!!!”

>>19407580

>>19407571
>Read our propaganda history and then go down the line of conmen

>>19407598
We're not asking them to read Martin Luther, though.

>>19407593
Cool pic of St. Paul

Bro just read the Gospels over and over. I did that for a while, wanting to get extremely familiar with them, and after that the epistles felt absurdly out of place. Paul doesn’t even mention the ministry of Christ.

>>19407799
>Bro just read the Gospels over and over.
Now listen to them over and over.
https://www.proecc.com/frthwaites-talks
Scroll down to "The Spoken New Testament". No epistles; just the Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.

>>19407580
Schizoid is not the same thing as schizophrenic.

>>19408947
No shit Sherlock

>>19407799
The epistles fit perfectly, you are clearly not reading them right

>>19407347
Based