/lit/ - Literature

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Life and the Truth. All of these other religions may have aspects of the Truth, but they are mixed with worship of demons, evil and other unseemly things to greater or lesser degrees. The Bible is like no other work, seeing it has confirmed prophecies such as those of Daniel 9, etc.

How many jpb threads are you going to make today faggot

>i read the headline of a youtube video and refuted it
>Me am very smurt

>>19383153
Jordan Peterson (PBUH) isn’t even a christian

>>19383225
The prophecies in Daniel 9 pertaining to the Messiah and the destruction of the temple are only found in the Masoretic text dated from the 9th-11th century CE, they are later additions

>>19383225
very based

>>19383153
>Christ cucks can barely be bothered to read the Bible, so it doesn't surprise me that they aren't aware of the mountains of other, non Abrahamic religious and philosophical works.
You answered your own thread, anon.
>>19383225
>Jesus Christ is the Way, the Life and the Truth.
>Jesus Christ is the Way, the Life and the Truth.
>Jesus Christ is the Way, the Life and the Truth.

You forgot all the literature from Sumeria, Babylonia, Persia and Egypt

>>19383384
>only found in the Masoretic text dated from the 9th-11th
Top kek

>>19383225
Oh look, it's Daniel 9 boy again, with his 100% confirmed prophecies that you can tell him are pretty damn subjective, but he wouldn't listen to, since it would destroy his cope in the sky

>>19383153
oh my god please fuck off from this board with your shitty fucking theads i despise you shitters so goddamned much with your bla bla the bible is the greatest bla bla the bible is the worst bla bla jordan peterson how about you grow a brain instead of watching the fucking tumbleweeds get stuck in the traffic of your adolescent head fuckin high schoolers with zero posts of value shitting up my board stick with the facebook meme pages

>>19383610
danielfag would read the second harry potter book and assume it was true because it referenced the first one

>>19383225
Holy based...

>>19383384
>are only found in the Masoretic text dated from the 9th-11th century CE, they are later additions
This is just a flat-out lie. Is this the level of cope you have descended to now? Someone has never opened a Septuagint in their life, evidently.

>>19383610
>>19383675
You haven’t debunked me yet. Is there a Temple today? Is there sacrifices done in this Temple today? Was the Temple not destroyed by foreign armies? Did not the prophecy of the seventy weeks specific exactly when all of this would happen? Cope more. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Amen

>>19383739
Temple was already destroyed once by foreigners. Daniel saying it will be destroyed again is not prophecy it's probability. Moreover I would already have to believe in your God to believe in prophecies that prove Jesus is that God. You're not arguing with a Roman provincial.

>>19383755
>Daniel saying it will be destroyed again is not prophecy it's probability.
You fail to realize that this prophecy gives us a time-table for these events and that the events came true according to the time-table. This is the significance of the prophecy of Daniel 9.24-27, along with the statement that the Messiah will indeed be killed.

>Moreover I would already have to believe in your God to believe in prophecies that prove Jesus is that God.
If the Bible has prophecies that we know were written centuries earlier that have come true in history—history we know apart from the Bible in significant aspects—one may want to stop and think how this is possible and how Daniel knew these things.

>>19383739
So if the Temple is rebuild, that would mean the Bible is wrong?

>>19383774
>one may want to stop and think how this is possible and how Daniel knew these things.
It's almost like it was fitted ad-hoc onto the events or something

>>19383774
>the foreigners who raze the temple will also kill our rebel leader
Yeah that seems likely too, not a miraculous prophecy. Need a lot of chutzpah to keep going there don't you? Remember this is the same religion that made a holiday of fighting a race war against the Seleucid empire. You're larping as the fulfiller of their prophecies? Because your version of Dionysus squares with a quote-mining of their voluminous scriptures? No wonder they rejected this guy as their messiah.

>>19383787
No. The time for the physical Temple has passed. Jesus identifies himself with the Temple in the Gospels, saying in John 2:19-22 that if the Jews destroy this Temple (i.e. his body), He will raise raise it up in three days. Similarly, in 2 Corinthians 6:16, 19 Paul uses language that says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Revelation 21:22 mentions there being no temple in the New Jerusalem either, “for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple”—i.e. its temple is the presence of God in all. The Church itself today is the temple. Any future temple will be a temple of Satan to complement the synagogue of Satan. The Jews are direct rebellion against God so long as they reject Jesus Christ. I have no doubt they will try to build one. It’s worth noting that previous “Third Temple” attempts have been stopped by strange occurences, such as in the time of Julian the Apostate

>>19383828
Why did God have the Israelites build the Temple and then say nah fuck that? Sounds like we're just lab rats to him.

>>19383796
This is more cope. The prophecy gives us an exact time for these things, and specifies what will happen. It’s undeniable that these happened in history, and therefore we see that Daniel, centuries beforehand, somehow knew that all of this would come to past. It’s clearly not a coincidence, the odds would be astronomically unlikely.
>>19383805
>your version of Dionysus
Kek it’s the syncretism schizo again, I already refuted you previously, and again you are ignoring the time-frame aspect of the prophecy in order to deny its evident conclusions in confirming Christianity

>>19383841
Later addition, Jewish forgery and cope. B-but the our temple was ment to be destroyed!! Y-yawheh told us this would happen!!

HAHHAHAHA.

>>19383860
Cope more. Even the fragments of Daniel from Herodian and Hasmonean times that have been found in Hebrew in the Dead Sea Scrolls basically just confirm what we have. Whether we look in the Septuagint, or in the Masoretic, or in any text, we see that Daniel 9.24-27 proves Christianity

>>19383874
It proves that Jews wished to explain the destruction of their religion getting btfo by the romans. Also many Jews supported Christianity, I don't see why they wouldn't add certain passages to cope for what Rome did to them.

>>19383841
>wine god who dies a vicious sacrificial death, is the son of a father god, and brings new life
>noooooo he fulfills muh prophecy he's not syncretic
You're the schizo. Study your Meds. Take your meds.

>>19383874
>the bible... proves the bible
Very cool argument mr priest

>>19383897
>again forgetting the aspect that pinpoints the time
Arguing intentionally in bad faith now.
>>19383911
>doesn’t even understand the argument

>>19383225
There are Christian works outside of the Bible ex. Book of Thomas you fool.

>>19383153
>having pseud pop-philosophy show up in your recommendations

>>19383949
And? They were not deemed canon by the Church

>>19383950
I do the whole “do not recommend me things like this” cycle every time something with JBP comes up, and he still comes up after doing this dozens of times. Something about him is profitable for Google.

>>19383928
Yes we don't know the exact date the Septuagint was written. Also the Dead sea scrolls are missing the proficies you're shilling. Christians and Jews are notorious forgerers and liers.

>"It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment."
Eusibius

>>19383963
>Yes we don't know the exact date the Septuagint was written
Prior to Christianity, we know this much. Now since you can’t deny the truth of the prophecy you have to ad hoc assume it didn’t exist and that someone they wrote it so well that it aligned with the dates determined by secular scholars for the reign of Artaxerxes and similar figures kek

>>19383928
It's not an argument. It's like asking a gambling addict for crypto tips.

>>19383976
Ok, where are the original manuscripts dating back before Christianity which contain the proficies about the destruction of the second temple? You can't find them? Oh right...

Probably means that the version we have now is likely the result of both old and newer proficies compiled many different time periods.

>>19383976
>since you can’t deny the truth of the prophecy
Says who? You? Why does an easy prediction become a god-proving prophecy? Are you an iron age goatherd who doesn't understand where meteors come from?

>>19383153
I read them all, get over it.

>>19384023
The Jewish scribes hadn't gotten to them yet. What's so hard about this to understand? Christianity is the continuation to Judaism.

>>19384023
You’re dodging the point again. The Jews have the exact same prophecy today, and if it was faked by Christians it wouldn’t be in there, because it is so damning for the Jews if they were to realize what it said. For the reason the Talmud pronounces curses on anyone who attempts to calculate the date of the Messiah. And again, if this was a post-70 A.D. fabrication (which you are assuming ad hoc), you still need to explain by what process they knew the exact dates of the reigns of kings from the 6th century B.C. such as Artaxerxes I, which are key to the interpretation of the prophecy of the seventy weeks. “It’s j-j-just a coincidence! They got lucky!” We also know that the Gospels quote 9.27 in Mark 13:14, Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20. So this text existed, evidently, in the 1st century A.D., and very, very likely before the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., but how one dates the Gospels will unfortunately come down to whether one believes that Jesus could have possibly predicted the destruction of the Temple before it happened though. Dead Sea Scroll document 11QMelch, dated to 100 B.C., also directly mentions Daniel 9.25. The passage existed for centuries prior to Jesus, cope.

>>19383153
Christianity is being deployed now as a deradicalization op for Discontent young men. Peterson is poart of that. D.C. Catholics are part of that, and lit is part of it too.

>>19384058
>The Jewish scribes hadn't gotten to them yet.
Just leave rabbi..

>>19384030
>Why does an easy prediction become a god-proving prophecy?
Making a prediction centuries beforehand and nailing the exact time-frame is literally almost impossible.

>>19384095
>nailed the timeframe
>range of decades for the events in question, one of which involves a marvel character coming back to life
Pathetic rationalization for what you already believe

>>19384121
>range of decades for the events in question,
Thanks for proving you have no idea what you’re arguing against

>>19384147
>t. believes that the antichrist has already come and been defeated
lol

>>19384147
Didn't you say 40 or 70 years somewhere? In any event, being correct does not make you a prophet, certainly not to me if I am not of your soothesayer religion

>>19384162
Non sequitur. I’m not a preterist.
>>19384164
>Didn't you say 40 or 70 years somewhere?
No. If the prophecy is calculated correctly it gives us the year 30-31 A.D.

>being correct does not make you a prophet
Predicting something centuries in advance almost exactly is more than just any sort of run-of-the-mill prediction

>>19383225
fpbp

>>19384084
This, something does not sit right with all of this. You are seeing 2016 Kek MAGAtards becoming Christian en-masse online

>>19384192
They probably realize that LARPing about Kekistan and sucking off Adolf Hitler isn’t satisfying their sense of alienation and discontent with modernity, and thus they turn to the oldest and most established religious tradition of the West. No need for conspiracies

>>19383153

>>19384199
Evangelical Christianity dates to the 1950s at earliest.

>>19383153
I cannot escape this mother fucker and any channel that claims to have truth definitely never has them. They just want to dunk on teenage sjws.

>>19384180
Good for Daniel I guess. But that doesn't prove any of the other claims Christains made it's just a corresponding date.
>>19384199
Last time this many surplus men became Christians it was because the Roman empire was caving in

>>19383950
This. I was even a fan of JP's a couple of years ago, and watched the debate between him and Zizek a few months ago, and he never ever shows up in my feed.

Why does the Bible and Christianity in general cause so much seething and butthurt in the Anglo world? Is it because Evangelicals are obnoxious?
Being from a 90% Catholic country I don't get the animus.

>>19384207
Replace IQ with billionaires...hmmm

>>19384192
Same thing happened in the post civil rights era with evangelicalism. Its a great way to redirect peoples' effort from materialist politics into theological purity spiral games.

>>19384287
>Is it because Evangelicals are obnoxious?
tl;dr Yes.

Once upon a time Anglo-Saxons were a peaceful (for Germanoids, of course) Christian people who viewed themselves as a distinct ethnos that were worshipers of Jesus. Then, the French coveted their land, and sent the Normans to go invade it because if they didn't the Normans would break free of the legal constraints placed upon them by Charles the Retarded and run roughshod over France.

The problem with this is that as Christians, the Normans actually couldn't do this. So, they justified it by saying that the Anglo-Saxons were still Pagan, and persecuted any churchmen who said otherwise (specifically, any churchmen who didn't engage in performative anti-Anglo-Saxon measures). The only form of Anglo-Saxon Christianity that wasn't suspect and subject to persecution (because, remember, the Anglo-Saxons aren't Christians by government fiat) was mind-numbingly performative hyper-apolitical Christianity. A form of Christianity that could never challenge political power, namely by willingly adhering to a rigid separation of secular and religious power. To ensure this, a purity-spiral of incompetence is setup, wherein everyone tries to out-stupid each other.

Thus, the Anglo-Saxon came to view Christianity as only really existing in one of two forms: a form that exists solely to cripple and hamstring its practitioners to make them easier to control, and a system of lies and farces that only exists to justify realpolitik. The expressions of these two forms take many forms throughout Anglo history. The end result is that you get whacky shit like Low-Church Anglicans willingly castrating themselves or starving themselves to death, and High-Church Anglicans prefering to attend their pastor's post-mass reading of his latest hymn to Aphrodite than actually attending mass.

You can see how this comes about today, with Social Justice being and Evangelicalism being system approved High-Church and Low-Church Christianity, respectively. Stuff like Buddhism, Asatru, Marxism, Hinduism, and nuAtheism are all attempts at creating alternative system-unapproved High-Church expressions (with the goal being to then move out of the Anglo-Christian framework entirely, thereby destroying the dichotomy and restoring actual religiosity).

>>19383153
because youtube is shilling this mook who doesnt practice his own advice.

>>19383153
>if not the bible then what?

>>19384262
>But that doesn't prove any of the other claims Christains made it's just a corresponding date.
And thus we would have to investigate the historicity of Jesus and discover what happened to Jesus and how his disciples came to believe what they did about him

>>19383225
fpbp

>>19384535
>how his disciples came to believe what they did about him
As we have discussed before, people believe literally anything they want.

>>19384596
This is a cop-out. Beliefs come from somewhere, and even great opponents of Jesus were convinced

>>19384355
Based high effort poster

>>19383153
Like it or not the Bible has been far more influential in creating the West's morality status quo we'd all like to cling to so badly so it's not that bad of an option.
That said Abrahamics need to stop being so braindead when it comes to this kind of shit; most people in the West don't even know what half of those books are.

>>19383153
Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. His Kingdom shall have no end. Call on Him and have eternal life. He loves you so much

>>19384207
Someone familiar with stats and math absolutely destroyed that image in another thread.

>>19383739
>>19383774
Daniel predicts that the Egyptians and Syrians would go to war (they didn’t) and that Antiochus would die in Palestine (he died in Persia).

>>19384180
>If the prophecy is calculated correctly
Lolol

>>19384606
>even great opponents of Jesus were convinced
Apparently not! The world denier accuses everyone else of coping... for not agreeing with him

>>19383950
How is it pseud pop-philo?
>Hu, actually MY subtitute dad's cope for life is deeper
lmao

>>19383828
MEDS NOW

>>19385054
We’re talking about three verses in Daniel 9, anon.
>>19385072
Yes.
>>19385076
>The world denier
Meme-term

>>19385107
>calls someone else a memer
>believes in the ultimate forced meme [prophecy,]

>>19385110
And it objectively came true. I’ve been trying to have someone refute me for days, to no luck

>>19385130
Why would I bother trying to refute someone who won't even acknowledge that he might be wrong? It's worse than talking to a brick wall

>>19385150
Refute me and I will recant. Fail to refute me and I will endlessly bring it up and continue to confound atheists and Muslims

>>19385130
I have to give you credit, it's a new low in arguing for Christianity, that the religion was entirely proven by Hebrew prophecies regarding the next temple's destruction and therefore we can ignore all the other issues with the claims made about sky daddy and his son captain sky daddy.

>>19385159
>it's a new low
>people have been seething for days against Daniel 9.24-27
Lol

>>19385154
Why are you so chauvinist against non-Christian magicians and miracle workers? It's literally the same shit. You have no excuse that you hadn't heard about world religions, it's just a petty provincialism applied to your favorite version of the story. Your answer to all the comparisons has just been "my version has better proof" but proof consists of hagiographic literature anyway. It's like having a witness also be the prosecutor. Gee, wonder what his motives were in telling that story...

>>19385154
All you succeeded in making me do was look up Daniel on Wikipedia. How about you convince me that I should care instead?

>>19385172
It's not proof. I prophesize I'll take a big shit 40 years from now

>>19385175
Non-Christian religions don’t have proof on anywhere near the same level as Christianity. That’s just the fact of the matter. This is why Christianity is simultaneously the most spiritually and intellectually-satisfying religion, because it is the one true religion. The nature of the Bible and its prophecies confirms this. I have seen no other text that compete in this regard. I do not automatically hate all non-Christian works. The Bhagavad Gita, for example, is a very beautiful work, and there are many elements of Truth in it, I would say. It’s clear though that Jesus is the Way, the Life and the Truth, and the only Way that will get one fully to God

>>19383153
>The Vedas - Yes, the thousand repetitive recitations about how Indra, Slayer of Vrtra, Breaker of Forts, etc. etc., destroyed the dasyu niggers
>The Illiad - nice epic story, but hardly morality inspiring, it's clearly pre-axial
>The Theogony - bunch of retarded children stories on why Moon is made out of Zeus' dick cheese
>The Mahabharata - see Illiad
>The Bhagavata Purana - didn't read it lol
>Plato, Aristotle - you're on to something. Shame that Christianity utterly appropriated them
>The Tibetan Buddhist Canon - as far as I know Tibetan buddhism it should be very folk religion-ish
>The Analects - yes, be a bugman to the system
>The Tao The Ching -he certainly was
>The Laws of Manu - the Hindu Deuteronomy and Proverbs
>The Upanishads - it's actually something to ponder about, good choice
>The Egyptian Book of the Dead - just some random magic spells to appease the heart munching crocodile

My point is that the Bible, taken as a whole, present more than each of the texts or authors given by OP

>>19383153
>The Vedas
>The Mahabharata
>The Bhagavata Purana
debunked by the indo-european migration theory
>The Upanishads
6/10 mystical poetry
>Plato, Aristotle
debunked by nominalism and empiricism
>The Illiad
>The Theogony
not even philosophy except in the fever brain of neoplatonic allegorists
>The Tibetan Buddhist Canon
magical nonsense perversion of mahayana
>The Analects
>The Tao The Ching
decent but really not transcendental
>The Egyptian Book of the Dead
from a religion that's been dead for thousands of years

>>19385211
It's a shit test where you force people to affirm something obviously impossible is true as a means of belittling them and demonstrating your power over them. It's like having to comply with whatever ideology is being floated at the time. You're stuck on it for whatever reason, but claiming Jesus is the Way to God already presupposes belief in other beliefs. It's all interlocking. It is gibberish to the heathen who doesn't need a way out of reality to god in the first place.

>>19385178
If one interprets the period of seventy 'sevens' or seventy weeks (depending on the translation) as referring to seventy periods of seventy years, i.e. 490 years (in accordance with the idea of 'weeks of years' in Leviticus 25:8). Several things are predicted in this prophecy. But first, we know that it starts "From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem". This is widely believed to be in the 7th year of King Artaxerxes of the Achaemenid Empire in accordance with the dates given in the Old Testament book of Ezra (Ezra 7). He is believed by secular historians to have begun to his reign in 465 B.C. The seventh year of his reign would be ~458 B.C. The prophecy says that there will be 62 'weeks' (434 years) from the finishing of the restoration of Jerusalem (which would take '7' weeks or 49 years) until the coming of the Anointed One / Christ. So if Jerusalem takes 49 years to restore from the order of Artaxerxes, that brings us to 409 B.C. 434 years from 409 B.C. is 25 A.D., the beginning of the 69th week of the prophecy, corresponding, it seems, with the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist at the start of Christ's ministry. Sometime after the beginning of the 69th week, the Anointed One / Christ will be put to death. There are several possible interpretations of the Hebrew here. Either the Anointed One "will be put to death and will have nothing", or possibly, (and more Christologically) he will "will be put to death, but not for himself". In the middle of the 70th 'week' a covenant will be affirmed with many, and sacrifice will become obsolete in the temple. This would occur around 28 / 29 A.D. according to the math, and would likely be the date when Jesus was crucified. Talmudic evidence shows that the sins of scapegoats stopped being forgiven from about 30 A.D. onwards. And of course, it says that "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed". This seems to correspond with the coming of the Romans into Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, which would of course end sacrifice in the Temple forever.

>>19385105
>How is it pseud pop-philo?
You are fucking with us now, right?

>>19384207
>Jews claimed to have average IQ of 114.88
You just can't make this shit up lmao

>>19385234
Lmao it's literally "seventy sevens" so it's just bullshit numerology and you get to pick post facto what the denominator was fucking incredible 10/10 christkekery

>>19385261
More cope. Truth is staring you in the face.

>>19383153
Only two of those are even worth reading

>>19385280
I'll bet whoever's face that really is would think it's hilarious he's been shopped on to a catamite collector

>>19385307
>literally just commenting on my meme choice
You’ve lost

>>19385018

The image is dumb but it's general argument is correct. There was a study with SAT data by religious orientation that showed the Jewish average to be around 110 in terms of IQ. But I don't have the source saved. But Jewish overrepresentation is not simply explained by the IQ difference

>>19385234
>If one interprets the period of seventy 'sevens' or seventy weeks
>If
What are the other interpretations? How well do they fit the prophecy? Your statement implies the existence of several competing theories, of which yours is just one.

>>19385331
I’m not aware of any other interpretations of this. The numbers come out as nonsense otherwise, especially since this is a prophecy about Christ

>>19385313
I've already disregarded your goatherd mumblings. Now you are insisting I believe obvious lies. You have no power here.

>>19385347
Only Christians believe that. How curious. Why not the people who produced it?

>>19385225
>debunked by nominalism and empiricism
If christcucks can delude themselves into thinking that their stupid god hasn't been debunked for the past millenium, it would be child's play to dismiss a few schools of thought

>>19385351
Pro-tip: Christianity is the true continuity of the religion of the ancient Israelites, appealing to rabbis and Talmudic Jews isn’t going to give you the true interpretation of the author of Daniel

>>19385361
I like how the response to Egypt is a sigh of relief that it can't hurt them anymore since it's defunct. The mosaic reveals his ultimate fear—the priests of Ammon raising their hands to the priests of Aten.

>>19383153
based OP

>>19383225
>>>/x/

>>19385366
Worshiping the sun is henotheistic paganism. God created the sun, cope

>>19385362
>i'm the real hebrew
Yes thank you for confirming this it explains your wholesale adoption of a true-false chosen-unchosen dichotomy wherein everyone must be wrong except you, except you can't enforce this anymore because Caesar has moved on

>>19385380
>god created the sun
Evidence please. As far as we know the sun is a power in its own right and the source of all energy. You don't get to bring friends. Who is this plus 1 who caused the sun? Why do we need him?

>>19385381
Christians aren’t Hebrews. Anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ is of the spiritual seed of Abraham, and is a member of “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession” (1 Peter 2:9)

>>19385347
And thus my interest has finally fallen to zero. Thanks for the hour's entertainment; good luck on convincing people!

>>19385385
>Evidence please.
Genesis 1:16, retard

>>19385400
I’ll pray for you, anon.

>>19383247
>>i read the headline of a youtube video and refuted it
To be fair that's how Peterson refuted Das Kapital

>>19385397
Yeah where did that idea come from?
>>19385403
>the bible... proves the bible
holy based priest-sama i yield

evidence, not scripture. not the same guy btw

>>19385419
Scripture is a valid epistemic mechanism.

>>19385419
this is replying to >>19385403

>>19385416
Well, you are what you refute

>>19385423
Not interested in the Bible's internal consistency with itself, especially the parts written as sequels to the earlier parts. If I asked you to prove Harry Potter wasn't real would you complain about inconsistencies in Rowling's prose or point out that Hogwarts doesn't exist?

>>19383225
Do you think fulfilled prophecies are exclusive only to Christianity? But of course, you will type a screed of cope, detailing how all those other prophecies are forgeries/obvious predictions/works of the devil.

>>19385439
Your are now relying on the assumption here that we can only know God from the Bible. God is a person, and can be directly experienced and related with independently of the Bible.

You do realize If not the bible then what is a response to what is the cultural underpinning of our society and how it would be different if it was not the bible.
Did you just read the title?

>>19385443
Name some prophecies written centuries beforehand that have so clearly come true, I am curious. I know you will be furiously googling in response to this though, assuming you try to answer me.

>>19385448
where is the proof of creation that exists independent of the bible?

>>19385460
Feigning ignorance? I accept your concession.

>>19385448
Ok and you've met him? What's his take on Islam or the other religions purporting to worship him? Is he still, uh, particular about that son he had that got murdered in the planetary ghetto? It was 2000 years ago it's time to forgive and forget humans do some crazy stuff

>>19385468
This *is* something that we know from the Bible. It’s beyond the purview of science, as scientific inquiry would presuppose a uniformity of nature that most evidently did not exist in prelapsarian times.

>>19385460
what amount of cope is this? I just came into this thread and its reminds me of reddit from 2007

Anyways the bible is true come to Jesus

>>19385470
>someone ignorant of my delusions must be wrong
the Sackler family has a bridge to sell you in Wonderland

>>19385470
So you can’t name any, gotcha.
>>19385471
Yes, I have experienced God.

>>19385476
>ok sure ill prove god to you
>so for starters, the bible is true and god already exists
>any questions?

>>19385468
>what proof do you have of X thing? oh btw you can't use anything that proofs X things
>checkmate christians.
people actually think this is a win

>>19385478
The person who believes in talking snakes and flat earth is calling me delusional. Am I on /x/?

>>19385486

>>19385485
Neat, well my experience has been not that so there's not much to discuss and since you have no proof to offer but mere testimony you ought to be much less arrogant

>>19385347
>I’m not aware of any other interpretations of this. The numbers come out as nonsense otherwise, especially since this is a prophecy about Christ
No way this isn't a troll

>>19385486
You said proof of creation. That is a truth that we only know from the Bible. Some things in the Bible can be verified extra-Biblically, like the prophecy in Daniel 9.24-27.

>>19385493
I’m not enlightened or anything, don’t get the wrong idea. I’ve had a few minor but unmistakable experiences. Prayer works, definitely a good practice to cultivate.

>>19385493
>admits his lack of experience
>calls others arrogant
the absolute state of atheists

>>19385494
>No way this isn't a troll

>>19385495
I don't assume the bible is true in looking to determine if the bible is true. That's a massive cope for someone who doesn't actually believe it but is posturing or trying to do social engineering since they don't have a horse in the race anyway if it is convincing or not to themselves, they are just hoping the target is enough of a goatherd not to notice or socially inferior enough to kowtow to an obvious lie. If you can make someone affirm your fiction you govern them.

>>19385503
Imagine being an elitist about having a religious experience. You've learned nothing taught by any religion.

>>19385510
>I don't assume the bible is true in looking to determine if the bible is true.
Neither do I. Luckily we have good pointers that it is such as Daniel 9.24-27. The most important thing is to live a Christian life and experience God directly, and then you will realize that it is all true.

>>19385521
seethe

>>19385528
>If christianity seems false, that's your fault. You aren't believing hard enough. You need faith.
This is gaslighting, a sociopathic tactic.

>>19385546
Struggles and doubts with faith come with the Christian life. Some have more than others. There’s nothing wrong with doubting or asking questions and praying to God for help

“I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” Mark 9:24

>>19385487
not trying to 'checkmate' christians desu. i respect you guys, but don't expect me to believe in a god that couldn't leave a proper calling card.
>inb4 'but thats the point of faith?'
sorry lads, but i can't bring myself to buy this. if god really was perfect, he wouldn't need his ego to be stroked by a population that blindly follows him.

>>19385565
>I'm right. It's your fault for thinking I'm not right. Don't trust your thoughts, trust in jesus.
Gaslighting. Have you, by any chance, ever seen a therapist?

>>19385569
p.s: 'blindly' sounds kind of harsh here, but i mean this neutrally (i.e. people follow god through conviction alone)

>>19385582
Therapists are secularized priests that don’t care for your soul, no thanks

>>19385591
I insist that you see a therapist. You are a thoroughly sick man.

>>19385569
I studied Buddhism heavily before becoming a Christian and ultimately the view I have is that I'm not trying to convince you of Christ's Truth anymore then I'm trying to convince you of gravity.

Its the equivalent of wanting proof that you will fall to your death or something.

>>19385533
Check out Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism. You are confusing spiritual progress with rank egotism

>>19385569
Yeah "god" sounds an awful lot like a petty human despot ruling over a precarious lot. One suspects this was an extremely useful tool at some point before it became legacy software for contrarians

>>19385609
It's really not. Death is certain. God is a claim disputed by billions. Again you have no excuse from lack of worldliness. This is a data point for your side to address, and "the other gods and their miracles are unconvincing" applies just as well to you.

>>19385591
>Healthcare professionals? No, I'll just pray all my sicknesses away.
I agree. You need help

>>19385609
don't get me wrong, its hard to not believe in some abstract higher power, or at least some supernatural/ unexplained phenomena which accounts for the universe existing as is. its hard to assert anything beyond that though...

>>19385591
That doesn't make priests sound all that great either, they're just therapists who went to divinity school?

>>19385693
Even worse. 'Secular priests' rely on empirical evidence, as in actually observing people's behaviour, whereas regular priests base all their advice on 2000 year old desert fable speculation.

>>19385366
>the priests of Ammon raising their hands to the priests of Aten
Aton cult was abandonned as quckly as it's progenitor and imposer, Amenhotep IV, died. What priest of Amon actually did was to destroy the ravings of the madman Echnaton, destroy his statues and impose damnatio memoriae on his accursed reign and kill the "priests" of Aton, if there ever was one genuine beliver in that misbeggoten abomination.

>>19385715
>'Secular priests' rely on empirical evidence, as in actually observing people's behaviour
They don't even do that, lel. They just regurgitate the current consensus, with no regard to integrity.

>>19385742
The consensus which just springed out of nowhere. Of course.

>>19385650
it doesn't really matter how many people dispute it honestly it doesn't effect my salvation if you believe or not.

Also you're approaching this from a scientific method point of view you already missed the point

>>19385655
because its the tradition you were born into as being a westerner

>>19385734
The heirs of monotheism live... in this thread!

>>19385763
Fine I'm unconvinced them

>>19385763
>You don't believe in god? That's your fault, you are using the wrong approach. You need to use an approach which concludes that the christian god is true. You need blind faith.
Gaslighting

>>19385791
you think anyone is trying to convince you?

>>19385802
>Gaslighting

>>19385811
I guess they were only pretending. I've noticed you all place a great deal of importance on simply repeating your doctrines, which isn't really how discussions work.

>>19385815
Not doing any favours for your cult.

>>19383153
>>The Vedas
>The Illiad
>The Theogony
>The Mahabharata
>The Bhagavata Purana
>Plato, Aristotle
>The Tibetan Buddhist Canon
>The Analects
>The Tao The Ching
>The Laws of Manu
>The Upanishads
>The Egyptian Book of the Dead
all of this is judeo brahmin crap compared to the buddhist pali canon

>>19385750
empirical evidence is an oxymoronic invention by the atheist rationalists. Only the NPCs believe in it.

>>19385830
Who cares if he is or not? No one is engaging in good faith anyway.

>>19385823
well you're approaching it from an enlightenment era thinking scientific method standpoint which is a much latter day methodology to how Christianity has been traditionally understood.
And your refusal to budge is your declination of having a discussion
not much i can do for you at this point

>>19385902
Meanwhile, intelligent people with soul and an inner monologue believe in talking snakes and flat earth unquestioningly. Of course.

>>19385920
this is the second time you've brought up talking snakes.
what about the triggers you this much?

>>19383153
cringe
>>19383225
Amen.

>>19385920
What advantage does being an atheist rationalist or religious individual confer? We are all wormfood anyway.

>>19385928
Why would it trigger me? I'm not the one that molds my conduct according to a book with literal talking snakes.

>>19385936
I can engage with intelligent urban professions such as my self and not yokel trump supporters

>>19385938
for talking snakes you seem to be unable to stop obsessing over them

>>19385944
That's a massive cope. You're a dead man walking. Intellectual wankery does not change that. Your smugness is not different and has the same effect as that of the proudly ignorant 'yokel.'

>>19385952
popular society hold us in high regard

>>19385954
And? What will that matter when you're dead?

>>19385947
Because I can see that you are desperate not to talk about talking snakes, for obvious reasons.

>>19385958
as much as the idea of everlasting life, at any rate.

>>19385768
not here anon. i was raised under a cath-conservative family. matter of fact, i considered myself wholly devout until mid-adolescence. and where I am, secularising happens to be the exception rather than the rule

>>19385966
Thank you for your surrender. That was my point. Your smugness is fragile vanity. You are no better than anybody else for your beliefs.

>>19385974
I'm a different anon, you blithering nitwit.

>>19385978
Sure you are. Sure you are.

>>19383225
Verily, verily so

>>19383153
>most profound philosopher
Kek

>>19383225
Meds

>be christcope
>act smug
>wonder why everyone hates you

>>19385899
Shut up shudra

>>19383805
>your version of Dionysus
>wine god
no
>is a son
so unique
>brings life
so unique

some cults heard of Jesus and adjusted their stories after the fact

hopefully this reddit spacing demonstrates how youve been debunked

>>19385385
>Who is this plus 1 who caused the sun?
we know stars are formed over time and are not eternal
they are formed according to natural law
An eternal being is then required

>>19387988
>An eternal being is then required
And why must this being be a who, instead of a what?

>>19387988
>An eternal being is then required
Big if true.

>>19388064
Because I was born into a christian household.

>>19383225
BASED

>>19388134
So your brainwashing is more valid than my brainwashing? LMFAO

>>19388134
So you admit this is solely nurture?

>>19388064
An eternal 'what' is incapable of 'beginnings' by its nature
though Ive read some interesting taoist alternative stuff
a 'who' has a 'will' with which it can initiate a 'beginning'
>>19388134
nice bait

>>19388169
>An eternal 'what' is incapable of 'beginnings' by its nature
>a 'who' has a 'will' with which it can initiate a 'beginning
And this is because...?

>>19388184
Because I've concluded that the christian god must exist, therefore this must be true.

>>19388064
>And why must this being be a who, instead of a what?
God is a ‘who’. We can directly experience this in our lives, no Bible required (this is not to say that the Bible is not an inspired collection of works). Focus on learning *how* it is rather than *why* it is how it is. The Bible tells us to seek wisdom and to ask God for it if we lack it (James 1:5). This same theme is repeated in the Wisdom of Solomon—“Wisdom is radiant and unfading And is easily perceived by those who love her; For she is found by those who seek her. She comes upon those who long to know her beforehand” (6:12-13).

If you wish to truly know God, I recommend that you begin to pray in earnest, regardless if it feels silly at first.

>>19388201
So feels over reals basically

>>19387988
>everything has a cause
>except THE ONE REAL BEING, who is definitely Yahweh
big talk for a volcano

>>19388203
That doesn't answer the question why we should assume a 'who' over a 'what', especially since the former has an intelligent will that requires an explanation, such as where it came from

>>19387967
>im deboonking you!!
>just says no over and over
dunning-kruger/10

>>19388219
Let me explain it this way:

I'm right and always right, you're wrong and probably the devil too. Faith in christ and the inerrant bible unless it's being metaphorical.

>>19388231
And why is that?

>>19388219
We don’t have to assume. Seek and you will find. Pray in earnest and you will eventually experience God directly in one way or another, and you will have no doubt that it is a Who and not a what. One can ask why it is this way and not another, but that’s just how it is.

>>19384084
This, but it was like this for hundreds of years now.

Unless you mean this effort is centrally coordinated by Jews and such, then you're retarded.

>>19388236
I don't know. I try not to think too much, because satan can influence my thoughts. The bible does all the thinking for me. There might be a verse somewhere which explains why. Of course, it only works if you believe it works (of your own free will, of course).

>>19388184
>how an eternal who initiates the creation of space/time
>Chooses to
>how an eternal what does so
>????
Trying to imagine this universe you propose, created by some sort of eternal machine without consciousness, that somehow generates conscious being within it, but only materially
phew
>>19388201
keep it up

>>19388216
>working backwards from the conclusion
pseud

>>19385347
How can someone have so little self-awareness?

>>19388257
Isn't that how theology works? I am yet to meet a Christian who is actually demonstrating god exists rather than rationalizing why god must exist.

>>19388266
And yet I still have not been debunked

>>19388266
One of God's lab rats; he's an npc who is wired to get his food pellet for following the divine maze

>>19388273
I don't think you need to rationalize God's existence. You just assume it (the more unquestionably the more virtuous you are) and work backwards from there.

>>19388273
There is a strong logical case for an uncaused cause
faith is needed to make the jump to any specific religions
but in terms of big picture architecture there's only a handful of options
>>19388289
seething

>>19388289
No you don't "need" to but when trying to sway less squalid heathens there is more mental legwork involved

>>19388273
I don’t think theology is meant to prove God to unbelievers. For most of humanity they don’t need ‘proofs’ to know God exists; they just know, even if more or less vaguely.

>>19388325
Has any atheists have ever been convinced by these attempts? I've never even heard of such case.

>>19388320
>strong logical case for an uncaused cause
No there isn't it's just a projection of the despotism inherent to the cultures which produced and sustain monotheism. You go from "everything we observe is caused" to "there's a first cause we never observe which is uncaused" to "that cause is my highly specific revelation of god which invalidates all other rivalrous proposals of god and causality" and there is simply no way to do this without pulling some hat trick or asking Caesar to raze your opponents if they won't concede to being dominated by your throne-servimg fiction

>>19388320
>seething
My post wasn't intended as an attack. Is it untrue?

>>19388335
>>19388343
That's why /rel/ threads are largely garbage

>>19388357
It’s mainly because atheists keep shitting them up

>>19383153
Imagine being the moron that made this thread.

>>19388351
>asking Caesar
>faith is needed to make the jump to any specific religions
you made up the last step
this chain of logic didnt even exist at that time
scholasticism is fairly recent
>other rivalrous proposals of god and causality
states do tend to do that
even non-exclusive religions get taken up and 'state religions' to consolidate narratives
this applies to secular states as well

>>19388380
>scholasticism is fairly recent
Ok yeah I do remember having professors in college who studied under Aquinas while he was teaching so that's fair. And the early Christians were definitely inclusive towards other faiths and did not have repeated intrasectarian squabbles about their doctrines and hostility towards the un-chosen until the government intervened.

>>19388369
>implying the threads with frogposters and shoops of the chad guy telling each other "christ is the way" aren't shitting up /lit/ in the first place

>>19383225
Based

>>19388394
>early Christians were definitely inclusive towards other faiths and did not have repeated intrasectarian squabbles about their doctrines
I didnt say they were, though it certainly helped to get all that settled
point is it isnt relevant to this discussion

>>19385327
Are you saying that if you normalize for IQ Jewish people are still overrepresented or that you suspect their intentions are nefarious regardless of the statistical probability of their overrepresentation?

>>19388463
No it's very relevant that Christians claim they've nailed the exact explanation of the first cause as exclusively revealed to them in 30 AD and that this is the only acceptable truth.

>>19385362
WE WUZ HEBREWS N SHIT

>>19384207
Why do people act as if its Jordan Peterson's responsibility and obligation to support the idea of a Jewish conspiracy? Nobody even says he's on their side or that he shares their supposed interests, they just seethe at the fact that he doesn't publicly declare his belief in the conspiracy. Publicly dismantling social justice warrior logistics and providing an intellectual bridge between atheism and faith just isn't enough for these people to appreciate or be grateful for his work. My guess is its because he is anti-collectivist and the Jewish conspiracy types tend to lean towards Nazism so they can't tolerate his message as it applies to both the far left and the far right.

>>19383153
>The Vedas
>The Illiad
>The Theogony
>The Mahabharata
>The Bhagavata Purana
>Plato, Aristotle
>The Tibetan Buddhist Canon
>The Analects
>The Tao The Ching
>The Laws of Manu
>The Upanishads
>The Egyptian Book of the Dead
all works of dead cultures which are only relevant in how we relate them to the bible

>>19388510
>my hot enlighted centrist takes will solve everything, through the power of not changing anything, even decripit garbage that should be changed

>>19388515
You relate them by reading them and realizing how shitty the Bible truly is

>>19388519
You didn't like that question, did you?

>>19388550
No, I don't like charlatans who spout midwittery and present it as some kind of revolutionary revelation, especially when they tell me my life's a mess when they're drug addicts themselves

>>19388510
>appreciate or be grateful for his work
Isn't he just a less literate Jung?

>>19383153
I dunno, I'm very content on living on a judeo-christian, greco-roman society. Whatever else that have nothing to do with it didn't produce a society worth of note on the present day. Specially the oriental ones, their progress is directly related on how much they dropped their old values and practiced judeo-christian greco roman values.

So, if I had to pick again to start over, it would be the bibble and greek-roman classics.

>>19388574
His articulation of Jungian archetypes is important because he actually provides a framework for their measurability. For example, he uses the Big 5 personality model to precisely explain the differences between masculinity and femininity without having to resort to metaphorical description. By doing so he not only assists people who would normally have difficulty understanding Jung or accepting his ideas as scientifically valid, but also provides a more consistent and objective basis for Jungian interpretation.
>>19388569
If he's a charlatan then why have so many people become functioning, well-adjusted and responsible adults that are far less susceptible to the media's ideological brainwashing because of his lectures?

>>19388617
>precisely explain the differences between masculinity and femininity
Ah this is why he is memed about as seething over postmodernism. He's actively building obvious meta-narratives to explain experience and presenting them as ontologically or scientifically real?

>>19388636
Exactly, well put.

>>19383153
The Iliad isn’t a liturgical document and you’re not a Greek.

>>19383225
Based and amen

>>19383429
>>19383714
>>19384188
>>19385932
>>19386139
>>19388139
>>19388418
>>19388740
>unironically replying to your own post

Holy shit Daniel 9 boy, you must be the single most pathetic person on /lit/ right now, and that's really saying something

>>19388617
>If he's a charlatan then why have so many people become functioning, well-adjusted and responsible adults that are far less susceptible to the media's ideological brainwashing because of his lectures?
They didn't, they became even harder seething incel faglords

>>19388769
I can't believe we've got someone here writing a hagiography of a guy who is only lauded as a great defender of civilization and masculinity because his views align with 90s Bill Clinton, who to be fair, was a dangerously based warmonger, sex haver, and saxophone player, while JP is a drug abusing pop-psychologist who doesn't even fit in your pocket like that qt japanese woman who tells me to clean my room and throw out his books

>>19388134
>>19388201
>>19388231
>>19388249
>I've concluded that the christian god must exist, therefore this must be true.
>I try not to think too much, because satan can influence my thoughts.
>I'm right and always right, you're wrong and probably the devil too.
Christcope logic at it's finest. God must be real because if he isn't real then I have to accept that my entire life has been a lie and I don't want to accept that.
Honestly amazing how good the church is at brainwashing. Church leaders actively discourage independent thought and weild the power of the church like a weapon to silence """"""""heresy"""""""".

>>19383153

>If not the Bible, then what ?

Deez nuts.

>>19388813
>hagiography
Its hilarious how you people project sainthood onto him simply because he articulates the truth. He admits he was an alcoholic in college and had to work hard to change his life, he admits his advice is directed at himself as much as others and he encourages people to always regard themselves as capable of evil. You seethe and project because you are threatened by his raw honesty which you refuse to examine yourself with.

>>19383153

Jews are the blight of the world

>>19388885
>you people project sainthood onto him simply because he articulates the truth
No no, you are the one anointing him as bearing The Truth, who like any good saint overcame his demon and now preaches The Way, which is of course, just The Truth, and so he is beyond critique and anyone doing so is clearly deficient for attacking The Truth. Grow the fuck up

>>19388910
>only saints tell the truth
I didn't use a capital T you dumb fuck learn to read and stop projecting. A person telling telling articulating the truth as honestly as possible is not someone pretending to be a saint and anybody who isn't crippled by narcissistic delusion is capable of understanding that. I have literally never heard or read a single person claim that Jordan Peterson is beyond critique. Stop. Projecting.

>>19388910
>>19388910
>only saints tell the truth
I didn't use a capital T you dumb fuck learn to read and stop projecting. A person articulating the truth as honestly as they can is not someone pretending to be a saint and anybody who isn't crippled by narcissistic delusion is capable of understanding that. I have literally never heard or read a single person claim that Jordan Peterson is beyond critique. Stop. Projecting.

>>19388961
>A person articulating the truth as honestly as they can is not someone pretending to be a saint
Why do you keep insisting he has the truth instead of just his theory or opinion? You are very consistent about this and clearly you've never examined what it is you're even espousing here. Or are you some sort of pragmatist for whom truth is relative in the first place to the value it holds for the subject, but just being inarticulate about it?

>>19389111
>>19389111
>person says things that are correct
>"hey, this person is telling the truth"
>NOOO THEY ARENT ONLY JESUS AND SAINTS TELL THE TRUTH CHARLATON DEMON JEW
I understand that Peterson is not the incarnation of Truth and that he isn't a saint and that facts =/= truth. I'm sure you would normally have no problem referring to a person who says things that are true to be telling the truth, but you apply a ridiculous standard to Jordan Peterson. Why you do this I cannot know, but if I had to guess it's probably something to do with my original question. Jordan Peterson's work is obviously helpful to people and even Johnathan Pageau, a Christian who criticizes Peterson for not having faith and treating Christ as a mere symbol, is easily able to acknowledge the fact that his work tremendously helpful and needed in our time.

>>19389111
>>19389111
>>19389111
>person says things that are correct
>"hey, this person is telling the truth"
>NOOO THEY ARENT ONLY JESUS AND SAINTS TELL THE TRUTH CHARLATON DEMON JEW
I understand that Peterson is not the incarnation of Truth and that he isn't a saint and that facts =/= truth. I'm sure you would normally have no problem referring to a person who says things that are true to be telling the truth, but you apply a ridiculous standard to Jordan Peterson. Why you do this I cannot know, but if I had to guess it's probably something to do with my original question. Jordan Peterson's work is obviously helpful to people and even Johnathan Pageau, a Christian who criticizes Peterson for not having faith and treating Christ as a mere symbol, is easily able to acknowledge the fact that his work is tremendously helpful and needed in our time.

>>19389219
>acknowledge the fact that his work is tremendously helpful and needed in our time.
I disagree that it's a fact he is true or helpful and all you've done is rehash that every time it is prodded at, and then posture as confused as to why someone could disagree with him. Maybe it's because his champions are so used to making the same arguments for him that they use for Christianity (it's true because the truth teller says so) that all debate becomes impossible anyway.

>>19389250
>then posture as confused as to why someone could disagree with him
Don't be stupid. I pointed out one person who criticizes Peterson (and I agree with his criticism entirely by the way) and you've done nothing but claim he's an outright charlatan who poses as a saint. It should go without saying that disagreeing with someone and treating their work as though its worthless are two very different things.

>>19383225
Amen brother

>>19383225
very based. fpbp.

>>19383153

>>19384411 (checked)
Ourselves.

>>19389380
You have very poor reading comprehension. I don't really care how he self-presents himself and that's not the point. I am criticizing how his fans describe him, as some kind of profound sage because he says boys have penises and should clean their rooms. His stuff as far as I gather is an extremely banal reheating of old meta-narratives in an attempt to overturn postmodernism through ignoring everything that's been said over the last 50 years
>>19388636

>>19389808
>I am criticizing how his fans describe him
You aren't criticizing anything you're claiming that his fans view him as infallible and that's total bullshit.
>his fans describe him, as some kind of profound sage because he says boys have penises and should clean their rooms
No they actually describe him as a profound sage because he taught people that religion isn't stupid, which is something people thought would be virtually impossible.
>His stuff as far as I gather is an extremely banal reheating of old meta-narratives in an attempt to overturn postmodernism through ignoring everything that's been said over the last 50 years
So tell me what's been said in the last 50 years that would undermine Peterson's ideas. That would actually be a criticism, and if you're criticisms are worth anything I'll probably agree with them. Enlighten me, please.