/lit/ - Literature

Has anyone else read The Art of Fiction by Lodge in the OP links and felt disappointed by his use of metafiction in his own work? He even says he deliberately left his plot threads unresolved and got backlash for it. His book was about two academics cucking each other. Tell me postmodernism isn't for hacks

No one here writes.

>>19341516
I'm writing right now.

I'm trying NaNoWriMo, because I find it really painful to get myself to write, because I'm hyper aware of my mistakes. But since this thing is focused on making progress, I'm just going with that. It's actually really amusing just how quickly you can write something inconsistent with what you've previously written. This would bug me to no end, but again, since progress is the key, I can just force myself to skip it for now.

>>19339520
I try to avoid writing someone completely ideal. My first female character has traits I both love and hate, in the same way that my protagonist does. She's clumsy and uneducated outside of theology and her technical job. I gave her a simple, homely beauty, albeit traditions I'm personally not familiar with. Specifically Apostolic Pentecostal, kind to a fault, but a tragic desire for connection that becomes her downfall.
In my outline for a dark fantasy, there's one character that's an allegory for the service of the Church. She's incredibly tall which I admit is attractive to me personally, and rooms change as she enters without saying a word. I'm not crazy about stoic girls, but she's stoic and by the book. Despite her competence and leadership, she's easy to manipulate.

>>19339520
There are people that don't do this?

Is basing my shitty story on many fantasy magical action scenes with characters development is an alright idea?

>>19339520
The female heroine is basically a waifu for the MC.

>>19341552
That happened to me writing an early Chapter 2 scene. My protagonist is proactive, but I felt bad that day so the character came off as helpless. I made note of the mischaracterization for editing, but kept going. The decision he makes at the end of the scene is still proactive. If you write a scene that fundamentally destroys what you're trying to do, you have to fix it or reinterpret what you're trying to do.

>tfw ESLkek writing in my own language
I wished I wasn't a sandjew and I could just post shit here

>>19341683
No. Ew, pop culture, what are you, a little girl. Gtfo zoomer.

>>19341784
I'm 28 years old bro

>>19341552
>>19341631
>>19341507
>>19341519
>>19341470
>>19341792
>>19341784
>>19341704
You will never be a writer.
You have no brains, no vision, no skills, no courage to be bold and original.
When you look in the mirror you can see your smooth, pale hands, devoid of the calluses a writer would have.
You can see your cheeto encrusted neckbeard, with not a single hair above your jawline.
You can see the thick glasses that you flaunt in an attempt to look like an intellectual, but that are actually due to your masturbation addiction.
Your parents talk about you in their bed during sleepless nights fraught with anxiety and shame.
You acquaintances (you have no friends) mock your cringe intellectualoid persona and your literary aspirations.
All the encouragement you get is from embarassed near-strangers and people who want to keep selling you their writing workshops and courses.
Your keyboard, glazed in dried semen, watches you in mute sadness as you fap and pant. It has never been used for anything more complex than typing "trap genderbend doujin sword art online", and knows that it never will.
You will never be read in admiration to a flock of college girls that will fawn over you like groupies.
You will never put on paper any amazing saga of bravery and magic, you will never conceive any mindblowing insights, you will never depict a generation's experience or craft awe-inspiring worlds out of thin air.
You will never be a writer.

>>19341792
Not a flex, makes it even worse.
>I'm 28 years old. I love magic and fantasy! :D
Ok infantile faggot.

>>19341899
What do you read?

>>19341901
Nobody reads here.

>>19341903

>>19341901
I read nonfiction and memoirs.

>>19341913
Cool, not my thing though

>>19341899
Yes, I enjoy fantasy and magic.

>>19341470
>What are you working on today?
My literary fiction novel. I need to edit the chapter until the end and write at least 500 words. Let's go!
But before that, I'll read some book.

>>19341470
Editing second draft, still in first half of the story. Also writing down some techniques I'd like to try, look through my living outline and see where they could have the most impact.
This weekend I will compose a monologue that explains how the protag ended up in the city, and an essay from another character about the inciting incident. But first, my 8 to 5 and a short story.

>write in English
>3000 words in 3 hours easy
>write in my own language
>smash through page after page
>barely 500 words in 4 hours
Why must every word be so fucking long holy shit

>want to play a video game, haven't played any in some time
>know you must read and write instead or you're not gonna make it
I must sacrifice all cheap pleasure in the name of art.

>>19341895
Why would you need to look in the mirror to see your smooth, uncallused hands?

>>19342026
English is much easier for writing than most eu languages. Most languages have more words, options to use them, to beautify, have complicated style and grammar, random word orders.

>>19342038
>Most languages have more words
Fuck you're retarded

>>19342067
but he's riht
english desn't have as many synonyms as other langages

>>19341934
Exceptionally based.

https://pastebin.com/FagwyFCu
it's frustrating to write because I quite literally cannot tell good and bad writing apart anymore

>>19341507
I leave some things unresolved or ambiguous in the hopes readers will leave and think about it thus endearing my novel in their minds

>>19341470
>What are you working on today?
Cub porn novel. But it's got human loli/shota in there too. Still looking for a good place to host it.

>>19341470
>What are you working on today?
While at work I came up with a scenario where a journalist is interviewing some fat bible-thumper who tells him it doesn't matter if he's fat now because when Earth and Heaven are remade he will get a new body.

>>19341934
You're a fucking millenial tvtropes brain FAGGOT
Cringe

>>19341913
There are no accurate biographies or memoirs. They are all either fluff or hit pieces, usually ghost written by a committee. History as you know it is mostly fake. It was written by the victors and events have been warped for propaganda purposes. This has been ongoing for thousands of years and most of the kingdoms and empires of western (and near eastern) civilization have been ruled by the same couple of bloodlines since the alleged "Flood". The difference between Herodotus/St. Augustine and Tolkien/Robert Jordan is the difference between a McChicken and a McDouble. The modern man is left to pick his poison, but, yes, it is indeed poison. The only winning move is to not play, to not read literal trash, and that includes everything not written by you. The only source you can trust is yourself. So get writing, anon.

>>19342348
Chaddest post I've ever seen on /lit/

>>19342348
Attardé mental

>>19341895
I always find this copypasta amusing because you can tell it's written by someone who also doesn't write

Currently working on a 2000 word short story for a creative writing class. I'm not sure if I should be using my best ideas for this shit though.

I hate writing in cliches, even when it is just for a first draft. But its the only way I can get things done.

How do I make a fictional culture that's inspired by an IRL culture without it sounding cringe or too much of a copy?

>>19342348
Based.

As one of those filthy larpers who doesn’t write I’d like to let you know I’ve posted chapter 14 of my book A Hero Among Monsters. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41979/a-hero-among-monsters/chapter/779139/chapter-fourteen-cant-beat-the-best-bet-for-beets?notification=True

>>19342595
good symbols and iconography
my trick: give the outsider character a stereotype (ie people from this place are loud and bombastic) then make the native character the opposite of those characteristics

I'd post to rr but I want to post chapters once every two weeks (15th and 30th) and wouldn't that be too little for the algorithm?

>>19342643
another important concept: it's almost always better to give a good description of an individual than try to describe a collective or a culture in abstract

>>19342675
This. “The people believe in the god Poopiepants, who is described as a being of infinite shit. Poopiepants is the opposite god of Peeshower.” Is a boring lecture. “Bill (our story’s protagonist) has unwavering faith in Poopiepants ever since that time he shit himself and, while replacing his soiled pants, avoided being gunned down by Peeshower loyalists.” Connects it to your characters and makes it more personal and relatable.

>Pastebin’s SMART filters have detected potentially offensive or questionable content in your paste.
>The content you are trying to publish has been deemed potentially offensive or questionable by our filters, because of this you’re receiving this warning.
>This paste can only be published with the visibility set to "Private".

>>19342691
so yeah, this makes me ask, what do we use now?

>>19342707
I thought Ghostbin was the go-to.

>>19342707
Make your own website and host it with Neocities or some other free service. You can just put a .txt file or whatever as the index/home page or if you spend 5 minutes learning HTML, can make links to chapters.

>>19342567
You can always develop a good idea further in longer stories. Take one thread of a big story, such as questioning an idea, and go with it. Recently read Skeleton by Bradbury, and although it only focuses on the question "what happens if we saw our own skeleton as a monster?" it was still awesome. Only briefly had the desert milieu thread, characters were boiled down and the inciting incident (visiting Munigant) is really just exploring the same question.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bookscirclejerk/comments/qmkz4t/announcing_the_first_bcj_readalong_shitkickers_or/

Reddit mods are making fun of The Shitkickers now

I want to get some practice with a short project that's not a huge commitment. Could you throw me a premise to work with? I'll share the results here for everyone to criticize.

>>19342748
All press is good press!

>>19342748
This is sad to read. Never link me to reddit again.

First chapter of a science fiction novel:
https://www.rainfrogs.games/mars
Very new writer, feedback is appreciated

>>19342753
Guy plays basketball at an outdoor court with his buddies, goes to buy some beers and tries to get the number of the cute cashier.

>>19342755
I feel like only negative press will be the press I can get as a masculine, straight white male, especially given that I am anti-establishment.

Need to find alternative media types that actually want to discuss some of the plot, but nobody was even talked about what the book actually gets into... A couple YouTubers should get the book soon and I think Gentleman Frank Gardner will get his copy soon!

Daily 2k done, tomorrow will be 4k or so. I accept this challenge.

>>19342785
I've written 286 words today, stop mocking me.

>>19342768
>Nooo straight white males = le opressed :'(

>>19342763
Okay, I can work with this. I'll need some time, kinda busy at the moment.

>>19342793
remember to use a non-white and female name if you want to be published or read

>>19342793
Look at any "Writer's Fest" in Canada and look who is speaking, or who is judging competitions, or who is hosting the events...

1. All queer
2. All women
3. Zero masculine men
4. 100% pro-establishment
5. 100% pro-tranny
6. 100% pro-climate change
7. Land acknowledgements
8. Everything is feminist and queer

The recent Vancouver Writer's Fest had a main panel that was 2 or 3 gay men and two feminist sex workers, look it up for yourself!

>>19342815
>100% pro-climate change
Huh. I would've thought they were opposed to the climate changing.

>>19342815
The straight white males have had their time! Now is the age of queer black woman!

>>19342819

Is it better to make decisions when writing or to incorporate every idea I have?

>>19342819
You'll notice:

1. Climate change protesters wear the mask
2. Tranny rights protesters wear the mask
3. COVID fearmongers wear the mask

The mask is the new armband. Everything has to be gay, net-zero everything, COVID is deadly, wear the mask, take the vaccine, worship the BLM, women with penises are real women, must eliminate fossil fuels, no meat, etc etc etc

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/over-a-barrel-the-current-for-nov-1-2021-1.6232557/fossil-fuels-should-be-treated-as-today-s-weapons-of-mass-destruction-says-environmentalist-1.6233079

Politics is downstream from culture, so ask yourself why do you think modern literature in Canada is so completely and totally POZZED?

Here's one for you, look up all of the book award winners in Canada lately, it is like reparations for indigenous people, every fucking book that wins is something about an indigenous person being treated badly, or some other tale of a minority or immigrant, hell, one of the Gellar prize nominees lives in Nigeria. Like clearly the entertainment world is beyond POZZED to the point where it would be hard to make a parody about it.

>>19342768
I haven’t read shitkickers. However, reading the scraps they’re picking on, it seems like it’s satire based on memes. Basically 4chan in novel form. Maybe they just can’t pick up on that because they’re not from here, but they’re ripping on it as though there’s no possibility the writer knew what he was doing.

>>19342815
Sounds good

>>19342862
The first line is clearly allegorical, the book is about vigilantism and the trope is well-worn and used, but it does the trick for a story.

The first person to find the COTC, L'Academie and Gothic Violence references in the book will put a huge smile on my face. :)

>>19342839
I think that not all your ideas need to fit into the narrative unless you have a very meticulous grand plan. I recommend that you integrate your ideas as they fit the narrative, since that is how people tend to act, by improvising based on the circumstances they find themselves into. If the events of a novel push your characters in a certain direction don't be afraid to follow it, and keep up with the ideas that will surge from it.

>>19342856
It's not my fucking fault you live in Canada (cultural wasteland), cry about it

To the little /pol/ circus ITT, are you aware this is the writing general? Are you writing or what?

>>19342896
I’m writing about how I fucked your mom up the ass last night.

>>19341507
lodge was bad, gardner is the one you want. op is a cum gargler and didn't include author. all those fucking gimmicks like framing, metafiction, list inclusion, etc are just cheap window dressing to truss up a zero-substance hunk of shit as if it were something of value. smoothbrains obsess over window dressing while neglecting the substance.

>>19342348
the king of /lit/
>>19342595
all fantasy is cringe and derivative so dont worry about it
>>19342691
is this real or satire?

>>19342940
>is this real or satire?
it's real and there wasn't anything offensive in it

>>19342815
dont forget the browns. gotta have everyone be either brown, cunt, or fag. for diversity you know, you gotta only publish brown people.>>19342856
>every fucking book that wins is something about an indigenous person being treated badly
same shit in america dude. i read recently "hotel on the corner of bitter and sweet" because it was lauded as upmarket and every agent seems to list it as an ideal they want to represent. so i read it and it's cheap whining about how asians were soooooo oppressed and white people are devils. the one white guy, named chaz, is basically a charicature. got held back in school 2 years, huge jock type bully, presented as dumb and mean. it's kindergarten tier. and this is what actual professional agents are seeking.

you could shit out the stinkiest log in 2 weeks and barely spell check, let alone research or edit, and just so long as it has a charicature tier evil white guy oppressing brown angels you'll get published and win a million dollar prize. that's the modern publishing industry. if you're white dont bother. they dont want you. they make that real damn clear.

>>19342748
>reddit
You can't say we didn't warn him. Wake me up when the first novel from this shithole gets published that isn't shit

>>19342896
>nooo complaining about hte literary industry isn't on topic to literature noooo i'm offended that you pointed out our hypocrisy and hateful reverse racism ways nooooo
pound sand. if you're a white male and not overflowing with self hatred and flaggelating yourself constantly at the altar of brown queer feminism you have no chance to get published. there is no greater topic related to /wg/ than this.

gentlemen, continue writing. this shit is going out of style like week old garbage. hoard your manuscripts and in a few years when the pendulum is swung back we can all make it again upon the restoration of meritocracy. hopefully all the brown queer feminist blue haired agents take 14 booster shots and fall dead. i'm tired of beign judged on my race and gender rather than my writing ability. i'm tired of every EVERY agent throwing a bunch of hyper-liberal hashtag buzzwords as their desired manuscript for representation. i'm tired of reverse discrimination. you faggots have pushed too far.

fuck the current year literary establishment and fuck BIPOC-marks. if whites are so oppressive and evil go back to your own fucking country. chinese literature is written about chinese people. but american literature has to be 100% only representative of chinese and other brown people here. every white country and only white countries are subjected to this. asian literature for asians, african literature for africans. but whitey cant get published in the country his forefathers built unless he writes about the struggles of enslaved black people. and then when we point out the absolute STATE of the industry you get offended and ban us.

>>19342991
>if whites are so oppressive and evil go back to your own fucking country
What country?

>>19342991
America is not a white country.
>every white country and only white countries are subjected to this
Oh nice another projecting American FAG, god I fucking hate fucking Americans. All the world =/= The fucking SHITHOLE that you live in. My country isn’t subjected to this at all. You did this to your own “culture”, pay the price.

>>19342991
Does anyone have that list of agents asking for black/brown/gay lit only?

>>19343019
why do you need a list, you can go to manuscriptwishlist and see it any time you want. just click agents and start browsing. every single one, they only want browns women and faggots.
>>19343016
we used to be 90% white less than 100 years ago.
>My country isn’t subjected to this
oh yeah and what country is that? is germany free to publish pro-german novels? is italy free to publish pro-italian novels?

>>19343031
Yes! There it is, thanks

>>19343019
Does that mean it has to be ABOUT black/brown/gay or can my fantasy adventure about goblins and elves count just because I’m black/brown?

>>19343041
just like SAT score acceptance to get into university. so long as you're brown, you're in, even if your score is rock bottom low. doesnt matter what quality of novel a brown person shits out, they'll get published based on their skin color. but if youre white god help you, no one wants to look twice at you. hemingway wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting published today.

>>19343031
>oh yeah and what country is that? is germany free to publish pro-german novels? is italy free to publish pro-italian novels?
Lmao you are such a fucking faggot. I am Russian/French. Russia doesn’t have the woke problem at all, it is simply non-existent. The cultural heritage is doing great. If you try to talk about race people will just laugh at you. Everybody’s white. Nobody wants that shit. France is getting more and more far-right (thank god), outside of Paris nobody is a leftist. Next election will be extreme right wing vs current president, FOR SURE. One of the most popular candidates is very openly islamophobic.

>>19343031
>we used to be 90% white less than 100 years ago
Well, you really need to come to terms with the fact that america is dead and has been for a while now. Its currently this zombie empire still muddling along based on the power of fiat currency and inertia. When it finally collapses no one will shed a tear, least of all so called "americans".
I mean, what even is an american anymore? American used to mean white, slightly puritanical, hard working. Now its brown, gay, funko pop collectors. Death to america and death to the jews. Good riddance.

>>19343066
Most jews are not that bad desu, half don't even support Israel

>>19343072
Agreed.

>>19343056
Sweet. I suppose I’ll have to change my first name, though, since my parents—due to internalized white supremacy—named me Henry instead of the Enrique.

>>19343072
judiasm is a supremacist cult that requires genital mutilation of its members and their slaves. the religion is fundamentally evil at its core. fundamentally. it need to be exterminated.

>>19343072
I have a jewish friend who is completely outcast from jewish society because they don't support Israel.

>>19343085
>evil supremacist cult
You can say the same about islam

>>19343058
>russia
no shit because putin keeps this shit out of the country. so dont come here and lambast me for wanting the same for mine.

>>19343099
I agree. Absolutely. All abrahamic religions that worship yahweh. I'd even go so far as to say christianity is the worst of the bunch because it espouses values tailor made for slaves. The founding myth of christianity is human sacrifice. It tells it adherents to be good, middle of the road people, don't question authority - but what belongs to cesar is cesar's pay your taxes - and in return they get paradise after death. Its a literal death cult the makes a virtue out of earthly suffering. Its nuts.

>>19341470
>What are you working on today?
Resting, might put down a few words on next chapter since I finished up the current ch yesterday night

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes/chapter/778897/chapter-97-embers-of-ishtar-prelude-to-entebbe

>>19342648
It might be detrimental yeah. You will absolutely be buried into the digital earth at this time right now because of Writathon. But you should write at the pace and consistency you're most capable of.

>>19343088
bullshit, there's plenty of orthodox sects that don't support Israel

>>19343128
True, sorry, in this case my friend was actually beaten up by their 3 cousins. Definitely some supremacists in Vancouver. Some jews think they are hot shit, for sure.

>>19343088
There is no “le Jewish society”, attitudes towards Israel vary from country to country and depending whether the people are Ashkenazi (basado) or Sepharadic (cringado) plus their individual opinions

I support Israel just because woke leftists don’t. Really makes them seethe.

>>19343124
what's the lowest possible speed that the algorithm accepts? I might be able to cut it depending on what it is.

>>19343123
this aspect of human sacrifice in christianity vis a vis artifacts of human sacrifice in greek myths such as hyacinthus

>>19343145
Not sure what you mean exactly. I think 23 hours is when it counts the last chapter you uploaded, and then it resets.

Since you’re never supposed to have the characters speak in exposition, what do you do when you’re at a point when a character—who doesn’t know what’s going on—would legitimately ask the characters who know more about what’s happening to explain things? Just cut out the conversation to keep things mysterious to the reader?

>>19343146
sorry i accidentally submitted this early, I am interested in books that deal with this subject, do you have any recommendations? gnostic/esoteric sources ok >>19343123

>>19343160
I mean like, this would be a question someone answers from reading or knowing people who have followers but like, the slowest you've seen someone upload and still get natural retention from the algorithm.

>>19343146
human sacrifice has been an aspect of any number of baying at the moon religions over the years. there may be some greek influence, but at base christianity is reform judaism, and judaism is in no way greek in origin. its more derived from sumerian and babylonian mysticism (and their human sacrifice rituals). being reform judaism, christianity is a house built on sand

>>19343192
based mythology scholar. same reason jews worship the cube of saturn. even judaism is a mutt religion cobbled together from prior mythology. religion is the human centipede version of ideology.

>>19342150
Wasn't able to read the whole thing but from what I saw it kind of reminds me of my own writing in that you have a lot of fancy sentences without the context or setup to make them feel poignant.
>And on he strummed again, as if such a thing was quite normal
You mentioned that the boy heard the strumming earlier but you don't mention the man playing the guitar when he sees him. It may seem obvious to you that he was playing the guitar but it felt awkward when I first read it.
You should also work on sentence structure.
>He batted the fly off his shoulder, despite it looking like the only aged company that’s graced him in some time
The idea of the fly being "aged company" is interesting but the way you put it now is awkward. I would personally go with something like;
>The fly might've seemed like aged company in the way it circled the man, but when it got close to his shoulder he swatted it away.
I would also try and be a little less wordy, particularly when you're describing actions.
>The boy took to sitting
Can be "The boy sat."
>was what he said
Could be "he said."
Like I said, you have some good stuff in there it just needs some cleaning up. If you're having trouble judging your own writing, it might help to take a week off after you finish a draft before revisiting it. Good luck my man.

>>19343207
Thanks for the crit. Hard to not go stirr crazy on oneself when you go from stock no writing for months to nano virgin run.
It's at least good to know that it is not as boring as crackers, which is what I was afraid of. It is at the very least, salted ones.

>>19343178
The only way you could cut it is if you publish at the minimum once a week. If you can publish even twice a week then that's even better, or three or even daily if you can manage it. Every 2 weeks is going to be painful; you're not going to get noticed on the algorithm with that sort of schedule nor will you hit it big that way. It'll be wishful thinking you might get some retention out of it—people are going to get impatient and will forget about your fiction.

But there's no real algorithm to speak of. People will find you organically in the latest updates, the front page, and searches. And if you're really desperate and lacking soul, you can post on the forums and flaunt your signature around.

Redpill me on substack literature.

>>19343228
Huh. Sounds like a lot of hoopla. Updating every day would be damn insane.
I think I'll have to stick to the ol write it all now, publish later kind of idea.

>>19343164
Primary sources are difficult. Herodotus wrote about the Persians, but he wasn't a primary source. The Epic of Gilgamesh, maybe? A lot of stuff has been lost, or was never put to paper, unfortunately.

I think this was a mistake. https://ghostbin.com/MCRi6/fuckit

>>19343281
Ehhh... ain't too bad, needs polish and balancing the floral with the storytelling, but you got it done which is step #1 of getting your novel finished.

The first several paragraphs should be one paragraph setting up the scene and going right to the dialogue. I found the story interesting but the initial part fell flat because it was too long.

I do edits by donation, if you're interested, let me know!

>>19343299
I’ll keep the feedback in mind when I go back to edit.

>>19342748
>antivaxx reeee
Okay while I applaud Mr. Shitkickles over that unnecessary ass-whooping, I have a question. Would you say low wit is your style when critiqueing society? I have mainly taken a higher wit approach, but I'd like to incorporate more idiosyncracies too. Would like to strike a balance between genuine autism and a dignified rebuke of those who dont understand they live in clown world.

>>19343347
I haven't seen a single post here from anyone who has finished the book yet, a few copies have been mailed to readers from here tho.

Mail is sloooowwww as fuck!

>>19342748
If ducks newburyport can get published and critically acclaimed why not shitkickers, they're both just as good. really you cant even tell them apart.

see, ducks is a sincere attempt at being good and fresh that utterly fails. and shitkickers is pointing out how shitty published prize winning literature in current year actually is by mocking them. it's the investigative journalism of the literary world. if it doesnt make a few people angry it isnt doing its job. shitkickers is 140 IQ. shitkickers will save the world from blue haired agents.

How do you introduce magic to your story imo? Especially since people like it to be all technical these days.

>>19343508
>Wizard enters the room
>does magic

Problem solved

>>19343409
The Shitkickers is a fun read!

https://jason-bryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/first2.pdf

>>19343508
I'd probably do something along the lines of "it's magic, I ain't gotta explain shit". There's no magic in my story though, characters might hallucinate as a result of ptsd or oxygen deprivation but that's about it.

Has anyone ever written a novel that critiques society's obsession with minorities and feminism? Like something written by a person who has REALLY lived and knows what's up?

>>19343530
no

>>19343508
Technicalities and magic are incompatible. The fundamental feature of magic is that its logic stops exactly at its execution.

>>19343508
introduce it as if magic has been a thing already for years

>>19343537
Tell that to the Mahouka novel series. Its magic is literally info-dump technicalities. But you are right aside from that exception though.

>>19343530
I don't have the intelligence to tackle it in a meaningful way. It would be biased /pol/-tier drivel.

>>19343537
You've never read any modern fantasy. Brando Sando reads like an MMORPG combat log.

>>19343553
I really don't think you CAN write it any other way than pol drivel. I figured it was a loaded question based on all the previous shitkicker posting.

>>19343563
>I don't approve therefore it is pol drivel yikes!

>>19343559
That sounds dreadful.

>>19343574
>He activated Sever Artery. It was a skill he'd learned to make his opponents bleed when he hit them with his sword. Quickly spinning around, he lashed out with Gash, a technique that intensified wounds and raked across his opponent's bleeding flesh. His opponent thrust forward with his own weapon, but he batted it aside with a Savage Slash that interrupted him, letting the warrior finish the enemy off with a powerful Final Thrust.

>>19343589
video games have ruined fantasy
magic cannot be captured in algorithm

>>19343530
why would the brown and femoid obsessed agents ever let that be published? of course we haven't.

>>19343589
>>19343559
Wow you weren't kidding

>>19343615
That was written as a parody. But it's not far off.

>>19343589
>this is published writing
>some cringelord got rich writing this shit
>someone chopped down a million trees that this could be written on their pulp and shipped around the world
honestly just end humanity, i cant endure the cringe any longer.

>>19343508
Quantum, also philosophy about tree of possibilities rooted in eternal soul.

>>19343615
Famous LitRPG writer here, shut the fuck up.

>>19342748
Kudos to the Mr. Shitkicker. Seeing redditfags sperging over it is funny.

>>19343530
Basically Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut. Dystopia where egalitarian ammended US constitution forces people to handicap everyone in the name of equality.

>>19342748
Damn, it motivated me to write so I can make redditor seethe. Thanks, Mr. Shitkicka.

>>19343646
Is Cringeworld the natural successor of Clownworld?

>>19343646
Yeah I remember writing a samurai short story that read like this with horrible action scenes describing everything. My brother laughed at me and I scrabbed it.

>>19343662
I still listen to Writing Excuses every week Brandon unironically. Keep up the good work.

>>19343563
>you CAN write it any other way than pol drivel.
The reason almost every single "4chan manifesto" novel fails is because they seem to think the best method of thwarting liberalism is by crafting a badass protagonist who will never not say there are only two genders, and I bet that really steams your liberal clams, doesn't it?

Its the "conservative critique" fallacy turned backwards. "LOL these dumbass poor rednecks with their stupid superstitions grasping at straws of relevance in a world which has left them behind ARE GOING TO ENSLAVE US ALL" becomes "LOL these dumbs liberal kids with their cotton candy dreams of holding hands in a perpetual kindergarten ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD"

What makes globohomo liberalism so frightening is precisely that it makes you feel powerless. You have young fanatics who want to have control of your mind, and the corporations and governments all agree that they should be allowed to have it. They're allowed to heckle us endlessly, but when we strike back its "literal terrorism." They're allowed to endlessly police our language, but the "moderators" of public debate call us dishonest when we try to pin down exactly what they're saying about anything. Everything we do is dragged through the media as a spectacular failure (ROFLMAO they're seriously having a rally omg ewww only six people showed up can you even believe how embarrassing this is?) and their failures are trumpeted as successes (six brave activists rallied in bold defiance to Trump's latest twitter post - here's why THE SIX MAN STAND is now the new face of activistism and progress and justice and science and journalism). With their ironclad grip on the media, they can freely choose among the Joe Rogans and Tucker Carlsons and Alex Jones of anti-establishment media to be elevated to mainstream fame to misrepresent grassroots conservatism in the cable news arena. They project their own slavish obedience to intellectual authority onto us and from there on to lunatics: can you seriously try denying your racist motivations when your dear leader Chairman Carlson, officiated president of conservative media, is clearly dogwhistling on national television? Dogwhistling? That's when you use one concept to symbolise another and confuse your audience - like how when you call someone racist for not protesting on behalf of George Floyd, you tacitly imply that they want to build concentration camps.

No right-wing author wants to admit that they're scared, because to do so would forfeit their standing ground: facts not feelings. And a tremendous amount of us aren't even right wing. I support sensible climate policies and a Green New Deal, literally fucking anything to unstick the rusted wheels of American society, but doing so doesn't make me a rebel against anything, and living in a fucking fantasy world where you're the Le Rebel Alliance who must first destroy the Galactic Trump Empire before anything else can happen, isn't helpful.

>>19343530
There’s nothing to critique. It’s called progress. May as well write a book about someone opposing the wheel.

>>19343903
And that's why The Shitkickers makes fun of it all

>>19343913
To be fair, a society that had anti-gravity or battlemechs would certainly be able to make fun of primitive "wheelie" people.

>>19343530
>>19343903
The comedy of Sam Hyde is the closest we have to a 4chan manifesto. I don't think there's any way to do it other than in that grotesque surrealist style.

>>19343934
...Actually, how in the hell could I forget Bronze Age Pervert? I guess he's a Nietzschean to the degree where his ideas can't be a part of democratic politics.

There's a pattern here. The system we live in is too corrupt to save through participation; dialogue is a slow, low-energy suicide. Better to be completely outrageous. Leave "owning" people in arguments to the teacher's pets.

>>19343537
magic is technical, read Ellul

>>19343537
"Magic" as a force is chaotic and wild, like an uncontrolled flood or forest fire. As a result the way people utilize magic requires systematization in order to safely harness that chaos.

>>19341470
>What are you working on today?
Nothing, since we don't write.

>>19343903
Those novels fail because they never aim to persuade. The only goal is to argue with or poke fun at the opposition. Same goes with debatefags, they dream of triumphantly defeating the enemy with superior wit and knowledge, without ever realizing that losing a debate rarely changes someone's mind. It'll only breed resentment and drives them further towards their brethren for support. Ideological victory comes from persuasion, but that takes empathy and understanding, which many anons seem to be severely lacking in.

>>19344116
>Ideological victory comes from persuasion, but that takes empathy and understanding
Finally someone figured it out

>>19344065
I'm working on a 2nd edition to City of Singles

>>19343903
high effort posting. anon will be the new goebbels.

>>19343903
Screen-capped and saved, placed in my "Autism Project" folder that I may not touch for at least a year. If I'm still here to write, I will try. I want to capture the mannerisms of this place with respect and also respect whatever antagonist I have. What a lot of people don't get is anons have no leader. There is a culture that holds us together that is recognizable, but it's far more pluralistic than outsiders understand. Some themes I've considered:
>behavior as a result of warfare on the public (deterministic studies on how to increase autism)
>emergent or transcendent properties of the anonymous experience, such as removing reservations due to lack of eye contact
>conniving, aimless clique on a discord or chat room, one such goes on rampage to stalk or dox a literal who over something small
>the incel phenomenon
>ending is likely emulating golf video game while drunk with strangers at 2AM on New Year's Day

I have plenty of observations to make and no stories to tell. It's as though I have no sense of timing, meaning that I have no comedic timing or feeling for dramatic tension. It makes no difference to me when something happens, with the result that whatever I write turns into a catalogue of objects and people.

I am incapable of playing games of any kind, because the time limits and requirement to focus on multiple changing factors completely stump me. If I'm unable to participate in a game of cards, this leaves me in a poor position to write a novel with multiple characters. My consciousness is linear, existing from second to second, and my memories have no chronological order. I have to puzzle out when something happened based on context, but all of my memories are equidistant in time. There is no basis for drama in the way I experience reality; I'm just accommodating myself to the medium that seems best suited to my abilities.

Aristotle says a tragedy should be based on plot, and that personality emerges from the actions characters take. Despite this being an utterly alien concept, I like it. A character shouldn't be decked out with quirks as though they were fancy dress. But this austere approach isn't easy. I'm in need of some kind of arbitrary plot; and it has to be arbitrary, because no natural plot could ever emerge from an inert and inattentive person like me. Even if I witnessed something interesting, I would turn it into snapshots, like the moment in Flaubert's Egyptian journal where he described the moonlight shining on his sock through a gap in the tent.

I don't have anything to say, other than that I'd like a magic pill to solve this problem. I suppose I'm interested if this state of mind is familiar to anyone ITT, or if you also think like this.

>>19343559
Lots of authors such as Sanderson have a magic system that feels like it is psuedo-physics and chemistry. I think the push for hard magic systems has played a part in fucking fantasy over. I know a lot of people will disagree with this but it is a point I will die by.

Do you favor the use of "he thought" or italics to write a character's thinking? I've been using the former but now i'm on the fence on whether i should change the style since occasionally the tag can be a bit clunky when meshed up with actions.

>>19344514
It’s because of assholes demanding “world building.” “Oh, you can’t write a 100 page essay detailing the how your magic system works so I can masturbate to its circuitous rule set? YOU’RE LAZY!!”

>>19344592
How should we know, we don't write.

>>19344065
>>19344595
When did this meme start, is it because we swapped OPs?

>>19344599
Since the start since no one ever wrote and people were asking for basic bitch questions that they could find the answer to if they search for a minute in google.

So in my story the BBEG is this horrible eldritch being created through being a casualty of an ancient interstellar war, and although in the current setting it is locked away in the planet itself I want it to still have a corrupting influence on the world and specific powerful characters for the protagonists to fight against. I want these avatars of the BBEG to represent the negative aspects of war (like a seven deadly sins kind of deal) but have them also apply to parts of the narrative and the growth (or loss) of characters as well. So far I have
>Longing
>Wrath
>Fear
>Grief
>Desolation
And I'm looking for a few more to either use or keep in reserve. Any suggestions are appreciated.

>>19344805
>Any suggestions are appreciated.
just write.

>>19344805
Slaanesh
Khorne
Tzeentch
Nurgle

>>19344806
I am, but I also would like to hear some suggestions as well.

>>19344822
>hear some suggestions as well.
Just write

>>19344592
i use italics. not sure if its acceptable or not but oh well.

>>19344805
Your monster sounds a lot like the results of bad parenting

>>19344592
It depends which option fits my story and my character. They read differently and they can be used in different ways so it can be useful to be familiar with writing both.

>first 2 chapters are perfect
>have to edit the other 22
>having a panic
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>19344592
Both, when the situation calls for it

>>19344594
That's kinda weird. While for now I'm more interested in Southern Gothic, scifi and historical fiction, here are some things I'd do if I got into fantasy:
>magic system based on motivation, not quantitative power or 4d chess battle of wits
>can highlight character epiphanies, juxtapose will with a concrete image rather than abstract
>consequences for magic guaranteed and vary per system, so no spell-slinging to solve problems
>2x2 quadrant with some combinations of motivations, the most pernicious fourth system is secret for a long time, but hinted at
>avoid magic school cringe
>instead of world building wiki entries in the story, world build by dropping bits of information with something more important (e.g. teach something about setting as we learn about a character, or raise a question about the world when look at the setting)

>>19344844
I was inspired by the Atropal Scions in D&D, gods who were never born turned into giant undead space fetuses twisted with hatred because they were never allowed to be.
The BBEG is the same, the few remaining non-divine races pooled all of their remaining power together to create a hero powerful enough to end the divine war once and for all. Unfortunately the mother was struck down as a casualty along with the rest of all non-divine beings at the time and their hatred for war mixed with the power of the unborn child and created the being that not only ended the war, but sought to consume all living things within it and ensure that there would be no more wars at all.

>>19344805
>Forgery
>Hubris

>>19344805
>Hope
and then it's like Pandora's box

>>19344514
It's like the other guy says, its a result of increasing demand for worldbuilding, which is itself the result of an audience not knowing what they actually like about a story.
>hmmm.... that book was really good. it gave me emotions. probably because it was realistic. reality is made of facts, so logically more facts makes it more realistic
When in reality they thought the book was good because they don't read very often and it was refreshing to interact with a new medium, or any number of reasons unrelated to the author's intentions.

>>19344805
>negative aspects of war
famine, pestilence and death

>>19344997
Good thoughts, I'll keep them in mind.

>>19345001
those are all positives

>>19345001
I'm moreso leaning towards the emotional aspects and not the literal, that way it can represent the struggles of protagonist characters in a poetic way as they literally confront the personifications of these aspects.
>>19344967
Funny you say that, Hope is the one I'm on the fence about because I do enjoy how it's used as one of the seven brides of the Scarlet King, I'm definitely keeping that one in reserves until I find a really good way to incorporate it.
>>19344958
Hubris is a very good idea, I'll workshop how to use it narratively.

I hate magic systems so much. There's always some bullshit like >>19344883 that takes me right out of the story. It can't just be some intuitive thing where it simply exists in the world and is treated as a matter of fact in the same way we would describe an automobile, it needs to be a deeply layered web of give and take point distributions that requires a multiple page tangent just to justifying the JoJo style asspull you know is coming is 170 pages.
The story I'm writing now has only one instance of traditional magic, a necromancer brand new to the trade who has raised up an entire farmland of zombified livestock through trial and error. I don't go into some system of life for death exchange or how she had some training in light magic so she only needed to tap into her dark emotions to conjure up the power of the void. She found a book in the farmhouse and just happened to be naturally gifted. She's in the story because she serves a thematic purpose, not because I need to flesh out the mechanics of magic.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I feel like that's better than pointless world building just for the sake of world building.

Could I get some feedback on this opening lads?

My only experience with magic systems is when I tried to write a fun adventure story about goblins for my nephew, when I was writing the magic scenes I just pretended like it was music. Really impressive when mastered, but frustrating and tedious to learn. But who cares about my magic system? Everyone just wants to watch Mr Beast throw money around on youtube.

>>19345064
good gets awkward around the third paragraph. particularly at
>how big was a germ, anyway?
This should be in first person, because it is a thought the narrator is having in the present tense as he recounts feeling ill at the meeting. Change this and all the other thoughts of the narrator which interrupt the story telling. I really enjoyed it tho anon, very fun

>>19345064
Would read more. There's not a lot to say. You're clearly an accomplished writer. Well done?

>>19345094
Excellent post

>>19345094
When you think about it, Mr. Beast is the modern expression of tribal chieftains

>>19343163
There is nothing automatically wrong with an exposition conversation. But if you want to keep things on the down low you could always introduce some event that prevents the characters from conversing properly.

>>19343163
My favorite thing to do is to exposit incorrectly, assuming you're doing worldbuilding. Have the character's explanation be partially incorrect, and have multiple other incorrect explanations of the same thing so the reader has to figure out the truth on their own.

>>19343163
>Since you’re never supposed to have the characters speak in exposition,
Huh? says who?

>>19345062
I totally understand. When I said "battle of wits" I was exactly thinking of JJBA, or comics that are there to just explore vapid combat abilities. If I can't use magic to enhance the literature itself, I won't even use it at all. I can already see it now why a fan would get upset why one beloved character might die when they thought they understood the "magic system" when that's not how life works at all. If I am telling a story about the tragic naivete of a character, it doesn't matter what that character believes, their glory, wisdom or strength. If that's part of the story, she's gonna die and I'm not going to let magic mechanics get in the way.
>But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Writing 500 words a day isn't good enough for NaNo but I can't think of anything more

>>19345311
Need help?

I'm an endless supply of ideas.

>>19345311
>tfw write 2000 of unedited text and want to show it off for crit but figure I will get crit to edit it before showing it off which would reduce my word count

I'm not even fully finished yet and I'm already starting to feel lost.
Lost as in... Holy shit I actually finished my novel, but what now?
I still have a third left to edit, and at least two more chapters I want to add, but based on my current progress I will have actually finished my novel by the end of the month.
And ngl, I'm really happy with it. It's turned out way better than I ever thought it would, to the point I kind of can't believe I actually wrote it.
The issue is I don't know how good it actually is until I get feedback. No-one else has read it yet and I'm terrified that people will hate it and that somehow I'm fucking delusional and actually a way worse writer than I think I am.
Honestly, this shit is kind of making me want to cry. I've put so much fucking heart, soul and time into this. What if it all of that was wasted?

I want to write a story about a MMA fighter who fights backwards. Similar to something like donkey guard in BJJ if you want a visual. The story will follow the backwards fighter as he is ridiculed in his early fights, but people soon learned that no fighter had ever trained to fight a backwards opponent, while backwards fighter has trained all his life to fight backwards against forward fighters, and thus he easily defeats them. It will be a metaphor for something.

>>19345389
You need to have a scene at the beginning where he gets his ass kicked repeatedly because he's facing the wrong way but he's too autistic to give up.

>>19345395
interesting I will consider it.

>>19345389
and when you think about it fighting backwards really does have many advantages.

>>19345350
>I'm terrified that people will hate it and that somehow I'm fucking delusional and actually a way worse writer than I think I am
are you a woman?
>Honestly, this shit is kind of making me want to cry.
seriously, are you a woman?

If not, don't be such a fag. If you are, sweetie, you should have written the book for yourself first and foremost, and I realize you have social/emotional issues you need to deal with because you're more hard wired to seek approval, but, if anything, getting feedback - even negative - is better than sitting your manuscript on a shelf where it'll collect dust. And then once you get the feedback, you get to edit some more. So you're not done by a longshot.

>>19345350
That's imposter syndrome that you're experiencing. What kinds of things are you editing, anon? Pacing, word choice?

You can write a good story even if the first one isn't. Each project is a learning experience, and you can improve your writing or continue to edit. Sometimes you need to move on to the next project and visit an old story later. Some authors styles and themes are both despised and loved, as is the case for John Milton's masterpiece Paradise Lost which was called a "monument to dead ideas." The most valuable thing you have as a writer is your voice, it's unique and cannot be imitated. You can write things that no one else can.

>first paragraphs poetic beauty
>the rest is shit
every time

>start reading a modern Merriam-Webster dictionary
>soulless clinical definition of a word
>download and start using Webster revised unabridged dictionary 1913
>breathtaking prose examples and vivid definitions
>overflowing with ideas with each new word

Can I get feedback on this? My outline is basically an incel falling in love with a succubus that's placed a curse on herself, any feedback is appreciated thanks

>>19345415
god that's disgusting

Despite the window viewing the world outside, rain had covered it in a murky, blurry sheen. What light fell inside here only moved to soften the muted colors.
Fluffing an unused carpet.
Painting a shut-tight door.
Blanketing the child in a comfort that no grown-up, or anyone his age especially, had ever experienced.
The comfort of nothing. He held a gaze devoid into the misted, dancing air. He held his breath, he breathed slowly, he held his breath. He held it longer.
He closed his eyes. A comfort, to feel nothing when the world’s woes build upon that solid rock. A comfort, to care for nothing when the desires you could hold might simply wash you away. A comfort. A blanket. A never ending cycle of sleeping and waking.
Yes. This was him and his life.
This was the boy without a soul.

The lack of a soul did not deter this boy. He still attended school, socialized with his peers, and attended to all the things that an average boy, at his age, would do. He played meaningless little card games, caught animals and bugs and fish in the creek. He would sometimes forget people’s names, but engaged with them all the same, even if their hair and skin and eyes and voice seemed to all blend together into one pitch that seemed like cement.
He did well. He did well at school, even if days seemed quite long and slow, like honey without its sweetness.
It was almost time to leave, anyway. So soon he could look outside and actually be there, instead of gazing at the window, through sometimes faded sometimes obscured little panes that dotted each side of his many schoolrooms. This one had little rocks in the windowsill, some markered with happy faces, others markered with perplexed expressions. The teacher, he had forgotten her name as well, had taken a liking to giving her pet rocks some responsibility in the class, and that duty was to keep the window-gazers some company. On grey sunny days like today, they certainly did a great job.
“Would you like to take one home?”
He didn’t realize that class had ended. The students were mostly gone, some milling in the back next to the cubby holes. The teacher met his confused stare with a smile that, to him, looked blurry, like the fluff from the inside of pillows.
“One of our pet rocks. Would you like to care for one this weekend? I think you and him have been getting to know each other these last few days.”
She gently picked up the smiling rock from the window sill and gave it to him by placing it on the desk next to his hands. His desktop was clean, not marked with graphite end to end like some of the other students’. He wanted to draw on it, maybe give it a little more decoration. But he could never think of what to draw. He cupped the rock in his hands.
“Thank you,” he said.
“No problem Sam,” She said, “Have a good weekend.”

How do you make a long book "easy to read," "fast to read," "doesn't feel like its length," etc.

>>19345653
it's interesting

>>19345653
Yes.

>>19345463
Have you ever considered that you might be a fucking pseud?

>>19345723
if this is the definition of pseud then it doesn't sound bad at all
now you have me confused about the validity of these terms

>>19345463
i used to own a paper dictionary from the 1980s. shame i had to sell it during a cross country move. when do you think the best year would be? 1940s? 1910s? i wonder if you can order a print of the year you would like.

>>19345653
Make it shorter.

>>19345491
>My outline is basically an incel falling in love with a succubus that's placed a curse on herself,
>any feedback
just don't.
>>19345621
that's nice, anon.

>>19345653
By doing the exact opposite of the average writing advice here
>Do not try to imitate some faggot from 1890
>Do not use words that the average normalfag will need to look up in a dictionary
>Do not spend an enormous amount of time jerking yourself off to your own descriptive ability
>Do not write some boring fucking literary fiction novel about a guy who's life is boring and normal and he's literally you except idealized
>Do write in modern English in a natural speech style
>Do use concise, simple descriptions when they are required
>Do write something that is exciting and at least slightly fantastical
>Do get an editor who is as close to 100IQ as possible so you can tell if you're writing something too complex for a normalfag mind
The average poster here is a first or second year English Lit university student who jerks off to the idea of being a 21st century Fyodor Dostoevsky who also happens to look like Ryan Reynolds. The ones who aren't exactly that are often just older versions of that same person who never grew up. They have no idea of what sells, what people like, or even how to write anything besides fragmented literary masturbation that would have been laughed at by the very people they idolize for being overly pretentious. Do not listen to these people. Find a subject you want to write about, fit it to a genre, then read the last 5 years worth of bestsellers in that genre. After doing that, write your book and mimic what you saw as much as possible.

>>19345762
soulless materialist who wants to retard your mind and craft. write the next twilight, if you please to, and tell me how well or not you sleep at night.

>>19343227
You’re welcome bro. My sister and I couldn’t last a day in Nano Wrino so you’re ahead of us.
>very least, salted ones
They’re saltines anon. Pretty decent on their own but they really shine with something extra.

>>19345783
With a full wallet and a full belly, in my own home with my own car in the driveway because I'm a functional adult and not a complete moron like you who can't process reality without splitting it into extremes.
>durr u can't be good if u r successful lol
Cope, seethe, dilate, rent free, do not pass go, do not collect $200, touch grass.

>>19345788
I have a day career that makes me the big money. If I want more money I take a cert and get an even better dayjob. My art is my own. I don't need to prostitute my soul out to pay my rent.

I'll either get published writing what I want or I won't be published at all. I shall die with my integrity intact. You may sell yours if you wish.

>>19345797
>success = selling integrity
Refer to the second part of >>19345788, also check em

>>19345758
>just don't.
why not...?

>>19345783
>writing modern = twilight
what planet do you live on

>>19345801
there's a difference between being "good" enough for a publisher to write a check and writing what you want to write.
my soul is more valuable than money. my integrity is priceless. i live for my own satisfaction, not the pursuit of temporary fortunes. you can go churn out the next big title YA series and make yourself a "pro" if you please. stop advising other anons down the path of self destruction.
"he drew a cartoon rabbit"

>>19345822
He found a formula for drawing comic rabbits:
This formula for drawing comic rabbits paid.
Till in the end he could not change the tragic habits
This formula for drawing comic rabbits made.

>>19345783
>>19345797
>>19345822
I would love to read something by this artiste, I bet it's really good

>>19345890
>so bitter he (you)s me double

>>19341470
>be me
>write piece of fiction for a month or two
>realize it's going nowhere
>ask anons on here if they'd be willing to review it
>anons said yes
>being editing it to make it presentable
>it's a massive timesink and distraction

Should I just trash it or continue editing?

>>19346065
finish what you start anon

Grandfather Gear (Read at 60 BPM)
Up and down, sands merge together
Left and right, pendulums tether
Around and around all the wheels turn forever
From the onset of time ‘till the last
Fibres of destiny weathered so fast
The carrion, the profits, and a grave
(12:01AM)
Pedomorphosis happened tonight
A cowardly soul with ambition and greed
Cut meiosis by proving might
Like a child with a costume, confidence grew
Science of nonsense at last at,
The afterlife dimmed as the soul lived again
(12:02AM)
Changed by his freakish reincarnation, memory disdained
But the atavistic prison of his soul discarded
The Golem shall care for his nation, the realization
Polluted his memory which now has delayed
Arhythmic rhymes
(1:02AM)
Fourteen past afternoon glowed lovingly on the corpse
The corpse whose mind still had control walked the Earth unseen
Determined to find the past, reverse death as he could cheat it
Scourge of the universe aspires to be like Vishnu, seek orbs
Obscene!
(2:02AM)
Woven gown on a growth without past
Wakes machines
(2:14AM)
And so it stopped to see his hubris go unpunished
Find that which he had lost in the divorce regained
Protecting his one child through crises and thus gain
A newfound sense of immortality
Going beyond, the nominality of his wish
(2:15AM)
How science and the occult bide each other
That a driven man give shape to his own body
As a ghost with iron skin onto his legacy
That now among ghouls he was once revered
And now lives on as God and saviour
By indignant covens was this fire’s fate to meet overseers
(2:16AM)
And so the mind forgot
(2:16:7AM)
To see himself a mech fighting wars,
Blocking threats on every generation
The centuries now flashed before him
What shall they eat? Robot stock?
His force increased as every minute
Spelled technologic innovation
Every circle on the clock
(3:16:7AM)
Spiralling, the genius admits his madness
Yes!!!!!
No!!
Yes!
No!!!!!!!!!!!
(3:30:7AM)
Every century, his massive killing capacity
Enslaved the planet with his weapons
Even Mephistopheles bowed before the Godhead
Elapsed until he was devoured was when,
With his own strength could no longer fight the sadness
(3:31:7AM)
The descent of the sterile machine, annihilated
His gonadal grey-goo devoured itself and now in retrospect accepted destiny as the
omega forever estranged from the alpha
Now alone in the universe, with his body fulfilling destiny
Loving and forcing his dynasty’s bloodline, the wielder of doomsday inverted the
prophecy, asymptotically approaching perfection
Tick
In the end there is nothing forevermore
Talk, singularity
(3:33:3AM)

>>19346078
Even if it leads nowhere? This excerpt is actually fucking worthless. I was only going to post it for technical advice.

>>19346083
Is it a complete book? It can't go truly nowhere if it has a conclusion.

>>19346089
It's a 1100 word piece. I was only going to post it for technical advice, the plot is barely there.

>>19346083
jesus christ just trash it and move it

It's not too late to start over. You only need to write 1930 words per day.

>>19346083
Imagine the story ends at the exact moment where you left off. Rewrite the last few lines/paragraphs to reflect a sense of finality. Ask yourself what it means for your story that it stopped there, and how you might have written the earlier parts differently if you knew the story was going to come such an abrupt stop. Even if it's the most insane worst place possible to stop, pretend like you were going for that all along. Rewrite the story with these changes in mind. Voila, it'll probably be readable.

I'm worried about my grammar almost constantly. Is there a resource I should consult to learn what I can/cannot do? Grammar books are pretty restrictive in the types of things they teach you.

>>19346139
I put my goal at a modest 1,600. More or less.

>>19345491
You need to find a way to deliver that huge exposition dump about the protagonist's background more organically. Either mix it in with some action (such as Nikita's method of getting the succubus to his house) or put it somewhere else.
You don't have to outright tell the reader everything about him to start off with, try to make it easier for them to inference things about him along the way.
Also the "No, she looked too big to be called 'girl', more along the lines of 'young lady', or 'miss'" comes off as awkward in a way you don't intend. Just say "a woman".

How do o make it. Whandnthwn rhe. Not gays but jaunt happy that his son is nmeetinf someone for the first time

>>19341895
How in God's name can somebody write with such unmatchable hatred and resentment, u faggot idiot... Go back to your GRR Martin's fantasy and shut the hell up.

>>19346276
A Joycean passage.

>>19342026
You're writing in Ancient Greek or what, anon ?

>>19346281
It’s a just a aorrfeckry enomala. Question. To ask about how my writi ting.

>>19346276
>>19346304
anon are you having a stoke?

Thoughts on Shitkickers?

8k into my novel (nanowrimo lmao). it's going great. super excited. I hope I finish. any other anons doing this?

>>19346354
progress and rothko

>>19346354
I am and am also roughly 8k in. It's exciting to see the idea I slowly molded over the past month or so finally start to take shape on the page. Most of my previous writing has been short stories so this is somewhat uncharted territory.

>>19345653
Have you ever read a long book and found it easy to get through? If you can identify why you can identify what you need to do. Above all you should keep it interesting, though. If a reader is bored they will flick to the back and check the page count (we've all done it), meaning that they're suddenly aware of how much time they are throwing at a book that feels like a bit of a chore to read.

>>19346354
>>19346366
I'm only like 3k and I hate it

>>19346354
In the official thread I was the first to respond, saying I would be the first one on 4chan finished. So far I have 3200 words, bit of a stomach bug and no will to write today.

I remember a long time ago I said in a thread that I wrote a 50,000 word novel every week as part of a year long challenge. Someone believed me and they were asking for tips and what I wrote about and shit. Can you imagine actually doing that? Would it be possible to even hit a bare minimum standard of quality? Let's say you could pull it off, out of 52 novels at least one or two would probably be borderline genius and you could probably take it to the next level with a bit of revising.

>>19346433
>I said I wrote a 50,000 word novel every week as part of a year long challenge. Someone believed me.
Nope.
>Can you imagine actually doing that?
Nope.
>Would it be possible to even hit a bare minimum standard of quality?
Nope.
>out of 52 novels at least one or two would probably be borderline genius
Nope.

You'd have a heart attack a couple weeks/months in from all the meth you'd have to be doing.

>>19346534

Total non /lit/fag here but I just had a flash of inspiration for a novel and want to begin writing it. I'm not sure how long it should be. What minimum length should I aim for? What's optimal for being successful on Amazon self published?

>>19346433
I wrote a 75,000 word novel in two weeks once. Felt like dying after. Can't imagine doing that all the time. Nanowrimo's pace of 50k per month is still fairly easy.

I'm working on a longer story, possibly a novel length, and my first. But for when I'm not in the mood to jump into that world I'd really like to write some short stories.

Does anyone have any good places to go to for prompts? I don't think I've trained my imagination enough to come up with many good ones. I wrote one for the flash anthology that just happened.

And don't suggest reddit's writing prompts, they all read like Ready Player One but more random.

Is it possible for two male characters to care about each other without being gay?

>>19346991
No

>>19346991
Yes. See: Hannibal

I want to write a story about a skeleton who is awoken by some children poking around in his barrow and he goes on an adventure to find his mommy necromancer
It'd be full of funny quips but I'm not funny so should the skeleton just not have a sense of humour and get told to shut up whenever he tries to make a joke?

>>19347031
Don't make him funny funny, just make him a bit socially awkward and it'll be funny.

>>19347031
Also by mommy I mean she is a goth gf with big boobies and long legs
>>19347038
Yeah that's a better idea, I guess he's not so confident also he'd probably speak another dialect cause he was sleeping for 1200 years

>>19346991
No

What kind of story can you tell when you’re just a bitter old man who feels only mistrust and contempt for his fellow man?

>>19346991
Yes, but be prepared for people to call them and you, the author, gay because apparently men can't be friends without wanting to play Cave Explorer in our brave new world

>>19347134
Yeah they can't fag

>>19347046
Yeah there's a lot of humour in just having a character fumble around in a more modern world.

I’m trying to write a rape scene but it keeps arousing me and I have to rub one out and then I lose interest in writing for the rest of the day. At this rate this tale of a little firl’s coming of age will never get finished!

>>19347147
Your onions latte is ready for pickup "ma'am"

So in my story there's this woman who starts off as an innocent little girl who wants children in the future but as she grows up she realizes she's a lesbian and feels a lot of guilt about it, not from peers or society or anything like that but just herself because she feels like a genetic deadend. She impulsively cheats on her awkward but sweet boyfriend in high school with another girl, soon confessing to and breaking up with him assuring him he can do better. Then later on when she's an adult she has a one night stand with a butch woman, and immediately after the post schlick clarity hits she takes off to a surgery and gets herself castrated since she realizes her sexuality/libido keeps compelling her to make rash decisions.
There's obviously a lot more to the story than this but that's a simplified part of it.
Now, give it to me straight, does this stand a chance at getting published?

>>19347351
only if you're a woman and it's semi autobiographical

>>19347351
I'm not really sure who this appeals to. I read "lesbian" and my immediate reaction was to think that I would never read it in my life, then I got to the part about castration and thought that people who supported lesbians would hate it as well.

>>19341470
>100 percent of my characters are women

Should I be concerned?

>>19347228
>Onions meme
Ebin I can't even!! XDDD Seethe cope dilate XDDD

>>19347351
Use a gender neutral pen name or a feminine one because nobody would accept this from a man.

>>19347408
unironically lurk more

>>19347427
Oh cool I've been using board for eight years so "UNIRONICALLY" kill yourself

>>19345491
You use terms of something happening in someone's brain happen way too often. Try other reactions tp convey the emotion
>women hating forum
Sounds like you're joking. There's a better way to say this that sounds more realistic. When Nik goes to internet forums, he finds many like-minded men. Nik's on to something and he's not alone.

>>19342467
>Mentioning masturbation so much
>You will never be read in admiration to a flock of college girls that will fawn over you like groupies.
You can also tell it's written by an ubercoomer incel

>>19345491
Maybe it's just me but your prose is purple as heck

How do you know how long your story is going to be from the outline/main beats? Is it just something that comes with practice? Or should it work the other way, where you say how long you want it to be initially and hard cap yourself?

how the fuck did this writing general go by in one day and it's all arguing over idpol? I think the /wg/ has failed and we need to go back to /crit/

>>19348051
Stop trying to force /crit/, you failed time and time again

>>19348050
i also want to know the answer to this question

>>19348051
>>19348060
crit and wg were the same thing retards. people are going to talk about writing in both, I was here for crit too, I remember. There was just more critting but there was still complaining and arguing.

>>19348060
I'm not who you're thinking of, I saw other people mentioning /crit/
>>19348074
So you're saying it wouldn't change anything and the lit writing community is just trash, I believe it

>>19348121
You would have to be insane to come here for any for any form of useful criticism

>>19348121
I mean, this is 4chan. If people had any talent for writing, why would they be stuck here? Our only writers are anime fanfic -tier people or schizos like the army diary guy.

>>19348134
Where do you recommend to go instead?

Dialogue is a bitch. Why is it I can have imaginary conversations with people in my head for hours on end but when it comes to writing someone else's words, it comes out as the most mundane, passive shit?

>>19348148
r/nosleep

>>19348165
Because you never talk to real people.

>>19346550
He writes something like 20k words per week
(Which is not really that hard. Writing 2.5 to 3k words per day as a full time job is pretty easy)

>>19348050
It depends on how big the theme is and how many you have. Does is warrant a lot of exploration? Do you need several plot threads to explore it?
Since I've been reading Bradbury, I'll give the example of his short story, the Fog Horn. It explores loneliness as represented by a light house fog horn. It asks the question "can you get used to loneliness?" There's not much to say about it, but it's answered by the end of the story after we see the sea monster and the protag try to cope. Now you wanted to write a story about book burning: Farhenheit 451. You realize the setting, characters, events and ideas warrant exploration because it's extraordinary and important. You could write flash fiction about one aspect but it's certainly novel worthy if you keep thinking about it.

>>19348193
So do you think it's more important to know if your story is flash fiction, a short story, a novella, novel, series etc rather than knowing how many words/pages it will take you?

>>19348168
I don't see how going to reddit for critique is any better than lit.

I am a slave to my desires and unfiltered fancies. How can I possibly focus this uselessness into writing a story?

>>19348358
You don't need to "focus" if it's something you genuinely enjoy doing, you enter a flow state naturally.

>>19348358
Write smut

>>19348316
No, I mean it's more important to know the complexity of the narrative. That can tell you how much you can write about it, and youre able to intersect plot threads creatively. If you don't have much to say or dont want to explore much, it has to be short. How many words it takes you is about the same as whether its a novel or not. If there's four plot threads it's definitely a novel, especially long if you arent concise or have lots of characters, a conflict that keeps on, etc. If you have less than that it's novella or novelette. If it's just one, it's probably short. You can try to write longer stories with one thread but it gets difficult and might as well be writing non-fiction.

>>19348406
I think I understand, thank you. I always try and plan but get lost half way and decide to write up to that point and figure it out as I go. Perhaps I should try and plan more.

>>19348144
You are so fucking stupid.

Mainstream society and mainstream lit are extremely pozzed you absolute fucking retard.

>>19346342
Based

>>19348461
The more complex it is, outlining helps. You dont have to plot every detail, just enough to be aware of what might necessitate too much revision. I often discover more about characters as I write when I see how they act in different settings, to new questions, and after each event. If you get stuck, engage it like Question and Answer. There are lots of moving parts of your story so grab ones that are relevant to the scene and think about what can happen next. If you cant answer your questions, try asking more simple ones. Practically an entire story can come as you subconsciously answer "how will I present death" with "this popcicle will symbolize death". Being new to writing or certain ideas may require a little conscious mastery to organize it.

>>19348558
Or maybe you're just so bad nobody wants to publish you. Improve instead of becoming an incel schizo.

>>19348595
>Or maybe you're just so bad nobody wants to publish you. Improve instead of becoming an incel schizo.

>>19348592
>If you get stuck, engage it like Question and Answer.
Can you give me an example?

I have a story that I know I want it to be episodic. Essentially small quests where a character has to find certain objects in order to cast some kind of spell which resolves an issue set at the start. I have the plan of what the initial problem is, I have a vague idea of some of the 'quests' too. And I have a rough idea of what I want an overarching plot to be - the reason she is casting these spells. And also a kind of character development arc of finding out what happened to her parents who she never met. It seems like enough to be a novel to me.

>>19348603
You're not even trying to improve. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
>oh woe is me, I can never succeed because I am a straight white male!
WRONG! You do not succeed because you don't WORK for it. You expect success and praise to be rained down upon you, but you're not worthy of it.
Git gud

First person narrative point of view is really difficult to me. I end up writing it in the voice of a character in kind of a stream of consciousness way but it always ends up feeling very unstructured and poorly written. But that's almost the point, right? I think my prose can be decent when outside of first person, but when using it I feel like the quality of my writing really diminishes.

>>19348645
I write stream-of-consciousness even in third person POV

>>19348645
emotion -> feelings -> actions
sounds like you have lots of feelings without their inspiring emotions or subsequent actions

>>19348667
I don't think I fully understand what you're saying.

>>19348681
Not that guy but
>Someone calls you a faggot
>Emotion: Anger
>Feeling/Thought: "This guy is a piece of shit"
>Action: Call him a faggot back

>>19348681
If your character is thinking about something they need to be thinking about it because they had an emotional reaction to something—not necessarily something related. And once they think about it they need to do something, like squirm in their chair or go out for a smoke. If it's just a rogue thought that comes from nowhere in particular and leads to nothing it might feel "stream of conscious" but it's going to confuse and mislead the reader who is looking for clues about your narrative rather than trying to appraise your word-tapestry.

>>19348704
Ah interesting. Would the repetition of emotion, feeling and then action not make the writing feel repetitive? I'm imagining this happening on a very short cycle.

>>19348718
Not really, it feels quite natural. Of course great writers know when to state with the unstated.

is this you /wg/?
https://elfm751.com/-1

>>19348797
I'll give it a try! Do you know of any good examples I could read? Any use in short stories?

>>19348050
It's as long as needed to tell the story until there is nothing left to tell for the protagonist and all loose ends are tied up

>>19348616
>what are some themes I want to play with? I've been discussing luck.
>what objects are associated with luck? a revolver for russian roulette, dice, a four leaf clover.
>where will each one take me and do they fit the setting I'd like to go to? Going with the clover.
>how do you find a clover? how rare is it? what does it mean to the characters? did someone take them all and why?
You will find if you keep asking questions, synthesize familiar with unfamiliar, you can create a lot. Read up on literary devices to see what kinds of tricks you can do to enhance the narrative. You also have quite a bit of liberty with the emotional tone so you can really do whatever you want. While it's tempting to go with the revolver for a dark, quaint story, you could just as well make the clover dark. It depends on how the characters react to it.

>>19346082
I usually don't give this advice unironically...Stop using big words, or stop writing altogether, soundcloud rap is better than this

>>19348848
This is a non-answer to the question of how you know in advance how long your story will be. Or if you can know.

If anyone has some thoughts on this short passage I'd appreciate hearing them.

>>19349692
It's shit.

>>19349692
It feels unreal to me that Caelan thought he knew what he was hit over the head with. I don't think he'd have any idea, I don't even think you'd think about what it was!

Is "rasped out" redundant? Could you just say rasped?

Also, "self-contained eruption" already implies only Caelan felt it, I think then saying "only in his head" afterwards is just using up words.

I like it otherwise, seemed interesting and the history the characters obviously share is intriguing.