/lit/ - Literature

>>19340570
America's literary corpus is far greater than Rome's

>>19340570
Seems evident enough

>>19340573
hhahahahahhahahahhaahhahahah

Name 1 (((USA))) book that compares to the Roman classics

>>19340570
Incredibly degenerate and filled with second-rate philosophizing which excuses said degeneracy? Yes.

>>19340570
Yeah both countries are famous for destroying the West

>>19340580
Moby Dick

>>19340570
LOL no

>>19340580
Moby Dick shits on the entirety of Roman literature lmfao

>>19340580
Moby Dick

>>19340580
I'm pretty sure America has surpassed Rome already lmao.
I mean even Rome was being mogged by the shadow of Greek civilization.
The Roman's had no serious mathematical, or otherwise, scientific work outside of people like Galen (Greek btw), all of their philosophy is boring as fuck and self-help tier, they endlessly seethed at the Greeks despite their obvious debt to them, and they were only interested in conquering (can't match Alexander btw) and engineering (peak midwit profession). The Romans were faggots. If it wasn't for Horace, Ovid, Cicero, and Virgil the Romans would be unremarkable culturally.
I've probably overstated my point but, hell, I still stand by it.

>>19340570
>Is America the literary successor to Rome?
No, because of their barbaric and poor language. Even any book in romance language fuck in the ass any literary work from the USA. And of course, the roman literature is superior to anyone, thanks to it's rich vocabulary and possibilities in the style. Ask yourself this: is there any immortal american literary work?

>>19340570


1. YOU MEAN: «UNITEDSTATES», OR: «UNITED STATES OF AMERICA», NOT: «AMERICA»; QVOD VIDE IMAGE ATTACHED TO THIS POST.

2. NO; UNITEDSTATES IS PHŒNICEICAL, NOT ROMAICAL; THE HISTORICAL ARCHETYPE OF UNITEDSTATES IS NOT ROMA, BUT, RATHER, CARTHAGO.

>>19340602
>>19340615
>>19340627
>>19340677

ahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahaha

>>19340711
cope.

America is Rome 2.0. It's actually kind of creepy how it lines up. Right now America is going through its equivalent of Rome's late republic.

>>19340690
t. doesn't know shit about latin
I doubt latin vocabularity amounts to 0.1% of the english one, it was a primitive language even by the standards of antiquity, fact bemoaned by Cicero who said he couldn't translate many greek words into a peasant language like latin.

>>19340711
>ahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahaha

>>19340580
Just about anything. You don't even need to go to Melville, McCarthy, Eliot, or even shit like Pynchon. Twilight beats the Romans lmfao

>>19340721
>of Rome's late republic
>implying a rejuvenated empire is coming
One can hope but I don't see it

>>19340721
America is Rome speedrun any% jew difficulty. It took romans 1000 years of state-sanctioned immigration, miscegenation, jewish empowerment, and decant culture to get utterly destroyed, mutts are on track to do all that within a century.

>>19340677
The Romans were better at conquering than Alexander. Just look at the longevity of their empire.

>>19340580
Storm of Steel

>>19340721
RESPVBLICA is based and the Empire is cringe. FACT. S.P.Q.R.

>>19340746
>Longevity
Peak brainlet take,The places alexander conquered that later became kingdoms for greek generals survived for an unbelievable amount of time

>>19340721
It actually isn't very similar. Few to none of the meaningful economic or political factors that led and facilitated the fall of the republic are currently demonstrated in America. This view is just a meme uncritically perpetuated by people who know little about either rome or contemporary politics.

>>19340677
not ennius? no? never got around to reading martial, eh?

>>19340812
Do you not see the parallels between post-Cold War America and Rome after the Punic Wars? A vast territory they controlled, great wealth inequality, questions of who was and wasn't a citizen, the rise of populist movements? Trump in this view can be looked at as comparable to Marius or Tiberius Gracchus.

>>19340570
As in its a soulless imitation of their cultural superior, Greeks for the latter, and Europeans for the former? Yes.
>>19340580
>Roman classics
You mean Greek copy pastes? As someone who can read both Greek and Latin I only enjoy Latin from post fall of Rome.

>>19340721
This is pretty much true. Not a 1 for 1 in comparison but if you are referring to a Spenglerian interpretation I can agree.

>>19340845
um, nope. also, that's a bit reductionist

>>19340780
Would you really consider them more conquered though? My understanding is that they survived for less time, were less culturally impacted, and more fragmented than Roman conquests.

>>19340570
America is Western Rome
Britain is Eastern Rome

>>19340780
Alexander could've Hellenized the east and he tried but it didn't really work out but it could in the future if they start converting them into Greek Orthodoxy. I always found it weird why the Slavs never Hellenized.

>>19341081
You couldn't be more wrong
>were less culturally impacted,
Greeks in egypt left Alexandria and kione greek was responsible for the coptic language to deciphered egyptian heliographics and creating the last dynasty of pharaohs they (indo Greeks) also were responsible for giving Buddha his iconic look and thats just at the top of my head

America was probably more grecoroman back when we roman saluted the flag. Why didn't our founders predict that we would succumb to the same fate?

>>19340570
>Amerika, du hast es besser
>Als unser Kontinent, der alte,
>Hast keine verfallenen Schlösser
>Und keine Basalte
>Dich stört nicht im Innern
>Zu lebendiger Zeit
>Unnützes Erinnern
>Und vergeblicher Streit.

>>19341127
Is that really more than the Roman’s cultural impact? European countries were using derivations of Caesar as the title of their head of state until the 1900’s. Latin was used as a scholarly language for centuries afterward and is the direct ancestor of Many European languages.

Regardless I am ignorant of Alexander’s successor kingdoms. Do you have any book recommendations? Primary sources would be most interesting.

>>19341129
this country is just a masonic experiment. they also knew that blacks would be free and that it would destroy the country and they did nothing about it. "all men are created equal" is our death note.

>>19341178
I honestly don't give a fuck if the founding fathers were masons, plus, no one knew that people would ask for shit like free healthcare back then so you can't blame them there for that now.
Frederick Douglass famously said something along the lines of don't help me, if I fall let me fall, and if I can't get back up don't help me--he'd probably be called a racist now a days. Yup! that's the sure truth folks, I tell ya what.

>>19340570
America has better literature than the Roman Empire.

>>19341178
I really don't know how to feel about the masonic roots of this country. Secret societies seem so anti democratic, so all the democratic le freedom talk is hypocrisy. Surely they don't literally worship molloch or whatever but maybe over time they got too far up their own ass and became evil? Who the fuck knows but I know their gay rituals and furtiveness isn't just a larp. I hope they as an organization die because the youth think it's all horseshit. I went to a mason temple in my early 20s and they wouldn't let me walk passed the front door. They actually started shouting at me when I pretended to ignore them. They were all 60-80 year old ugly jewish looking freaks, but that could have just been their age.

>>19340694
>the states are Carthage
This tripfag actually made sense for once

>>19340910
>Not a 1 for 1 in comparison but if you are referring to a Spenglerian interpretation I can agree.
Spengelerian interpretations are, of course, bullshit; but they are fun thought bubbles to entertain for artistic purposes.

>>19341466
>Spengelerian interpretations are, of course, bullshit
Not really. He has yet to be majorly wrong, which is impressive for a 100 year old model that is pretty granular.

>>19341502
He is wrong in his fundamental premise, in the sense that he is being reductive. Civilisations do not function like living oragnisms. Sure, using that metaphor can be useful sometimes, in isolated instances, but it just doesn't work for a coherent, holistic picture.

>>19340570
Rome had shit lit

>>19341648
based

>>19341525
>wrong in his fundamental premise
Okay, all models are wrong and many make simplistic or wrong assumptions, but it does not make their models bullshit. See Newtonian physics, which is wrong but extremely useful. When you look at it this way its very powerful to look at cultural civilizations as living organism.

>>19340570
The Romans were turbo-autists who made a joke out of western values at large and I, for once, am glad they were made extinct by Jewish subversion and Germanic savagery. So yes, one could say America is becoming the successor to Rome in that regard, although the former's literature manages to be decent (before the 21st century, that is).

America is the masonic atlantis. That is not a good thing. Does not compare to Rome in any way.

>>19341687
>When you look at it this way its very powerful to look at cultural civilizations as living organism.
How so?

>>19340694
It's hilarious how much you seethe about this. There is one country with "America" in the name, the first American country. There are a number of countries with "United States" in the name, including the "United States of Mexico."

>>19341707
If we take the assumptions of the model as "true", even if they can be somewhat wrong, and analyze with what the model has given us and create predictions then we compare these predictions to reality is what I mean by the power of a model.
This also means using Spengler's units of analysis. So in this case we only analyze/predict with what Spengler said we ought to in this case we only make predictions with the West and Russia by comparing them to the developmental stages of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India, Greco-Rome, Meso-America, and the Islamic world. He also analyzes on a broad view so if one or two things are breaking the trend its fine as long as the culture itself is following that path as a whole.

If you consider both of the above after you have seen Spengler's developmental stages he outlines its obvious what things he has predicted to come out and its pretty obvious he has been entirely right for the last 100 years, which is a very powerful model. Not that he can't still be wrong, he may well be.

>inb4 what predictions were right
WWII, Soviets abandoning communism before the turn of the century, militaries becoming mercenary lead rather then citizen soldiers (volunteer militaries becoming the norm, blackwater), the decline of art into formless gigantism (think mavel movies and video games focusing on graphics instead of story), art looking back rather than forward (movie remakes, art needing to reference/deconstruct former art), political movements focusing less on ideology and more on personalities of individuals (Trump but a lot of US and European politics since and during the cold war), centralization of power behind one international power (USA winning WWII and the Cold War), and a general feeling of pacifism/helplessness which overcomes the culture (anti war movements that exist to this very day and feeling that something is broken in culture/government).

>>19341774
>art looking back rather than forward (movie remakes, art needing to reference/deconstruct former art)
Not that guy, but art was always mostly looking backwards, generally speaking. I don't really think this is a prediction.

>>19341795
I think you are right to correct me for not going in depth enough on this idea. A better way of seeing this is seeing how culturally creative art is. For example in Dante's inferno he references older forms which are every in Greco-Roman forms of the past. This is a reference but not the one I'm talking about.
On the other hand Disney's Lion King 3D animated movie is a reference as well. This is the one I'm talking about.

Basically does your form of art add something unique that breaks beyond the past reference? Dante's inferno added a very interesting new cosmological outlook on the world similar to a mix of Al-Farabi's but punishment/reward is self imposed through our actions.

>>19340570
Amerifats biting down hard on the cope in this thread

I was under the impression that Roman wasn’t that impressive

>>19340570
I hope not

>>19342074
Roman literature indeed wasn’t that impressive(admittedly little of it survived to the modern era so it might by really representative).
For example, the only complete roman novel(the golden ass) is a crass sex comedy with piss and shit jokes.

>>19341351
The United States government is pure evil. You can feel it in the air. The secret societies in the top tiers of government have always sucked the soul out of its people and they laugh as we beg for it

>>19340615
Am I supposed to cry or what for Heaven's sake ???

>>19340602
>>19340615
>>19340627
Suppose I finally have to read my copy.

>>19340721
America is actually the Mameluke Sultanate and there are no Ottomans. Wasn't even a Baibars for that matter. Probably won't see a Muhammad Ali either.

>>19343260
>>19340721
actually the Qing might also work as a better comparision than Ancient Rome.

Actually America will become one of the many Empire phenotypes for nations in fifteen hundred years, much like Rome/Carthage/Phoenician/Chinese are occasionally seen as today.

>>19340602
>>19340615
>>19340627
>>19340677
>>19340734
>>19340910
>surpasses everything ever written by mutt claws
>>19340748
>storm of steel
American education

Threads like this remind me why I hold such hatred for Americans

>>19340570
Yes, and Germany was the literary successor to ancient greece.

>>19340744
>America is Rome speedrun any% jew difficulty
Kek

>>19340914
>um, nope. also, that's a bit reductionist

>>19340570
Pre-World War 2, perhaps.

>>19341351
>>19342309
Voltaire, Rousseau, Mozart, Goethe, Burke, Burns, etc. were all Masons btw