/lit/ - Literature

>>19327533
>Hitler regarded Marxist economic policy as no less repugnant to genuine socialism as the concept of class warfare was. Marx advocated de-privatizing all production and property. State control would supposedly insure equitable distribution of manufactured goods and foodstuffs, and protect the population from capitalist exploitation. Hitler advocated private ownership and free enterprise. He believed that competition and opportunities for personal development encourage individual initiative. He said in 1934, "on one hand, the free play of forces must be guaranteed as broad a field of endeavor as possible. On the other, it should be stressed that this free play of forces must remain for the person within the framework of communal goals, which we refer to as the people and the national community. Only in this way can we attain ... the highest level of human achievement and human productivity."

>Der Schulungsbrief dismissed Marx's disparate clamor for equitable shares in national assets and equal pay for all work as stifling to personal motivation: "The man capable of greater achievement had no interest in realizing his full potential, when he saw that the lazy man sitting next to him received just as much he himself... Any initiative to do more and willingness to accept responsibility could only die out under this system.

Why don't stormfags and Fascists literally just read Marx? These are literal boomer conservative talking points that are made against it. Don't like historical materialism and anti-nationalism? Fine! Then drop the internationalist rhetoric. You can apply Marx's solutions without the internationalist rhetoric—you'll still end up having to fight against capitalist countries who want to fuck you up and steal your shit anyway. Which is why Marx recommends internationalism anyway, because capitalism is international. The solution then must be international.

It's like trying to watch midwits deboonk Aristotle.

>>19327576
understanding marx is what drove me towards national socialism

>>19327588
And what did you understand?

>>19327591
mainly his view of history as a matter of class conflict and the theory that material conditions would drive a dialectical evolution from capitalism to socialism to communism

>>19327605
Did you understand his economic theory, the bread and butter of his work? The contradictory nature of capitalism which produces conflict, and dooms everyone by said contradictions? We're actually already at that stage. The reason the whole machine is still running is because the inflationary money still being produced. When banks stop giving out loans, what'dya get? Recession.

>>19327626
yes

>>19327588
How?

>>19327742
I agree with much of the sentiments but disagree with the way he thinks capitalism imploding on its self or a dialectical process will cause it to evolve the way he thinks it will, and i also have disagreements regarding what he sees as an inevitable or even desirable solution to class conflict.

>>19327742
also it apparently might surprise you to know almost all fascists are former socialists or pro labour unionists

>>19327576
Perhaps im being a tad bit ambitious but i would argue that national socialism is everything that matters in marxism in action. a synthesis of capitalism and socialist theory build on an infinite line of progression based on infinite population growth growing demand, a infinitely growing private economy whos growth is tied in with infinitely expanding massive scale public labour projects and infrastructure development that would have put us out in space with such highly developed infrastructure and productive forces so infinitely vast that the end result would be material commodities becoming virtually worthless in any conceivable market due to the sheer quantity of supply of material, with labor its self being literally the only thing in existence with any real value, effectively moving humanity out of the adolescence of capitalism and into the next stage of human civilization without any convoluted plans for brute-forcing a new theoretical re-invention of economics into existence. more marxist than marxism

>>19327576
But Marx was wrong, Baudillard killed what was left of him

>>19327576
>Drop internationality bro
>Drop antinationalism bro
>Drop the class warfare bro
>Drop atheism bro
>Drop the abolition of private ownership bro
>Drop the communist revolution bro
>Bbbbu butt itt itt s its still Marxism bro!

This is how retarded you sound like, how about you read Spengler and Feder instead of Marx

>>19327576
Based Hitler.

Lately I have been learning about the history of economics and realizing that economic thought in the 20th century was one gigantic propaganda campaign to foreclose certain possibilities. People used to be able to think economically, think through economics, the same way they now think through any other mundane technical issue, which is to say it has its own technical jargon and you have to do some initial work to understand things but it's fundamentally understandable and not magic.

Compare what Hitler says with what Friedrich List was saying:
>List's theory of "national economics" differed from the doctrines of "individual economics" and "cosmopolitan economics" by Adam Smith and J.B. Say.
>"It is bad policy to regulate everything and to promote everything by employing social powers, where things may better regulate themselves and can be better promoted by private exertions; but it is no less bad policy to let those things alone which can only be promoted by interfering social power."
>List repeated his assertion that economists should realise that since the human race is divided into independent states, "a nation would act unwisely to endeavour to promote the welfare of the whole human race at the expense of its particular strength, welfare, and independence. It is a dictate of the law of self-preservation to make its particular advancement in power and strength the first principles of its policy."
>In a thousand cases the power of the State is compelled to impose restrictions on private industry. It prevents the ship owner from taking on board slaves on the west coast of Africa, and taking them over to America. It imposes regulations as to the building of steamers and the rules of navigation at sea, in order that passengers and sailors may not be sacrificed to the avarice and caprice of the captains. [...] Everywhere does the State consider it to be its duty to guard the public against danger and loss

Who was List, some kind of obscure literal who? Nope:
>List's principal work is entitled Das Nationale System der Politischen Ökonomie (1841) and was translated into English as The National System of Political Economy.
>Before 1914, List and Marx were the two best-known German economists and theorists of development
>This book has been more frequently translated than the works of any other German economist, except Karl Marx.

Ironically Marx himself pointed out what happened to economics: it started to be "mystified" around the middle of the 19th century, as the theories of classical economics started to be applied pragmatically and self-consciously to the practical exigencies of nation states by people like List, and this was deemed injurious to the propaganda of "free markets," which only benefited the then-rising international banker class.

We need a whole dissident school of economics to recover what is living beneath all the shit that has deliberately been heaped up on it to hide it from normal people.

>>19328231
>Baudillard killed what was left of him
How? Where?

>>19327588
This. Understanding Marx led me to understand that he only anticipated industrial capitalism, and not finance or managerial capitalism, which only even began to exist around his death. The revisionism crisis around Bernstein was absolutely necessary and was fundamentally correct: Marx was empirically wrong in the letter of many things, and if you want to keep the spirit of Marx alive, you need to have the balls to take what is living in Marx and discard what turned out to be dead on arrival. This is a very Marxist thing to do, and it's sad to see his followers worship every last dead letter he wrote instead of keeping the spirit alive.

The people who actually tried to go beyond Marx were Rosa Luxemburg, if you for some reason like the utopian-cosmopolitan workers' utopia vision of post-capitalism, Lenin, and Gramsci. All three realised that Marx's economic projections had been wrong in certain respects, which is healthy, and all three realised that Marx was too much a child of the 1830s (read: too much an Enlightenment liberal of Prussia's brief liberal experiment) to see the need for voluntarism and irrationalism in social movements.

Lenin was a purely praxis-oriented blanquist trying to wage an apocalyptic world war on capital. Gramsci was a theorist of how to fight a "long war" with capital along essentially similar lines. Both had irrationalist, voluntarist presuppositions Marx didn't have.

Just like national syndicalism was a perfectly rational outgrowth of these crises of redefinition in organised socialism, so was national socialism. National socialism is one of the legitimate heirs to 19th century socialism and Marxism itself. Mussolini was one of the best Italian Marxists. All of them are predicated on the need for an irrational, voluntarist turn, because of the failures of the crypto-enlightenment Hegelian rationalism of Marx, which was itself an irrational faith.

Marx essentially believed that the proletariat would naturally organise and that the revolutionary class war they were waiting for was absolutely imminent. Hell, Marx and Engels believed it was imminent in the 1840s. Then they got blue-balled and pinned all their hopes on tactically radicalising the SDP, which failed miserably.

Absorb what is good in Marx, ideological critique and absolute terror of being false consciousness'ed by the bourgeoisie (like happened to the SDP), abandon the rest. Fuck the DSA tier fetish for internationalism, fuck the DSA tier fetish for an international industrial working class that hasn't existed for a century and didn't even really exist during the SDP golden age.

>>19328321
Books for this?

>>19327742
class war is really just race war
if you actually examine the british capitalist system, you will see that it's the product of the ubermensch Normans conquering and subjugating the untermensch Anglo-Saxons

read mitch heisman

>>19328439
>mitch heisman
well that sounds like and interesting schizo-core rabbit hole to go down

>>19328381
These four articles are a good primer: https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

For mainstream academic stuff:
Zeev Sternhell, Neither Right nor Left
A. James Gregor, The Ideology of Fascism

For third position primary sources:
Alain de Benoist, Edouard Berth ou le socialisme heroique: Sorel, Maurras, Lenine
Pierre Drieu la Rochelle, Fascist Socialism
Werner Sombart, A New Social Philosophy (translation of Deutscher Sozialismus)

For mainstream work critical of Marxism that show its breakdown and splintering into equally valid and equally contentious re-interpretations, including Leninism and Gramscianism but also Sorelianism, anarcho-syndicalism, and national syndicalism, read Kolakowski. Generally the more understanding of Marx you have the more confident you will be in demystifying him and frankly asking what he did and did not anticipate about the entrenchment of capitalism in the 20th century.

It is theoretically valid to say that internationalist Marxism can be adapted to some of the stuff he didn't predict while maintaining the internationalism, but this is only ONE valid option. It is equally valid to simply discard the internationalism, even if only provisionally (which is in fact what many Marxists have done and continue to do - look at Mariategui admirers in contemporary Latin American Marxist movements, look at Marxist "third worldism" that was obviously just national socialism or even national bolshevism, like many movements in Africa and of course Vietnamese "communism").

Even just watching a documentary on what Ho Chi Minh actually thought is instructive. Both the Vietnamese and the Cambodians were fighting on an entirely "irrational" basis and that's how they saved their nations and their peoples.

Also keep in mind, what today is "racist" and "antisemitic" (any criticism whatsoever of minorities or Jews) was in Marx's and the SDP's day completely normal. If you told the average "internationalist" SDP member in 1895 that his country would become a glorious communist semi-autonomous zone in the global workers' alliance 100 years hence, but by "his country" you meant German-speaking Turks and Somalis, do you really think he would be enthusiastic? Internationalism is not a necessary component of socialism and never has been, the average working man has never had an interest in it.

>>19328490
I got u.. I only read it because a /pol/ schizo kept spamming it. it's based

Here's the link to the text:
https://legacy.gscdn.nl/archives/images/suicide_note.pdf
(Read pp. 32 - 625)

TL;DR: https://www.scribd.com/document/198985140/Mitchell-Heisman-s-suicide-note-overview

Alternatively you can listen to it while gaming: https://youtu.be/BiMZi5P7WJA

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkg6y0uFLHOyAX4BlU6tlnp1qW4l2aFEA

>>19328508
thanks

>>19328439
Heisman has normie tier understanding of his own people though. He also doesnt seem to reply grasp the more granular group dynamics at work. I mean "anglo saxons vs normans" is meme tier analysis of the situation of British aristocracy and the past 1000 years of political and economic evolution.

>>19328693
>"anglo saxons vs normans" is meme tier analysis
not at all. Regression of the castes is the real historical analysis.
Heisman was Evolapilled
>class means caste, and caste means race
-Hitler

>>19328742
Appealing to Hitler and Evola does little to assuage my doubts, to be perfectly frank with you anon. Heisman seems unaware of who actually coordinated the overthrow of the European monarchies and why they did it.

>>19328527
>1900 pages
sweet jesus

>>19327533
Juggling either buying this or "The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit" by E. Michael Jones right now. Pitch me.

>>19327533
"right-wing" socialists are retards
Rohm got what he fucking deserved

>>19329133
Why not both. E. Michael Jones is a bit of a meme but he is right that you cannot understand history without understanding the Jewish question. I believe he even shows a favourable view of Marx in either this or Barren Metal

>>19329166
I avoid buying new books until after finishing another first, so I'm really just juggling which to read first.

>>19328439
Oh. So you didn’t understand Marx.

>>19329188
>getting self important over the guy memeing the schitzo book

>>19329164
You're right, the only real authentic socialists are anarchists who dissolved as a real political force and rehash the same speculative fiction about the world spontaneously joining hands and dissolving all politics, the 95% of internationalist Marxists who are full time employees of the bourgeois state's educational institutions (which mostly churn out bourgeois managers and financiers, with just enough experience of "leftist culture" to manipulate it), and the other 5% of internationalist Marxists who are drug addicted former college students still posting online about Marxism as a hobby and occasionally talking about the necessity of "organizing" and "praxis" in some feckless way (while all actual opportunities for such organizing are monopolized by bourgeois astroturf NPOs that are really just pyramid schemes for the managerial strata to pad out their resumes by saying they managed an NPO).

Only gritty, praxis-oriented, realistic leftists like the aforementioned employees of the bourgeoisie and pothead hobbyists could believe in something as subversive and radical as post-nationalism in a world where the World Economic Forum, the Bilderberg Group, and every neocon thinktank since Reagan also believes in it and pushes it.

Bump

Bump

>>19328260
Simulacra and Simulation, the value of products isn't based on the time or skill of the worker, nor on the material used.

>>19329188
what is so hard to understand?
R E F U T E D
B Y
H E I S M A N

>>19329232
Socialism is completely incoherent, so yes the only socialists with any integrity are the utopian ancom types, who will never achieve anything beyond a small commune. The sheer amount of dishonesty wrapped up in socialist justifications of repressive dictatorship is actually breathtaking to me. These people have lies pouring out of their brain like a worm infestation.

>>19328527
Can I get a QRD?

>>19330838
read the pic
he basically analyzes the germans vs anglo-american-jews factions
it's pretty interesting actually, especially if you are Hitlerpilled, Spenglerpilled, or Marxpilled

>>19330928
You got a higher res image?

>>19330939
unfortunately not, but the TLDR link covers the same stuff

>>19328527
I swear i've heard Sam Hyde talk about the 'Technology is God" subject

>>19327533
The only good type of socialism is the libertarian.

>>19331315
is this intentionally meant to be a joke play on words that the only good socialism is the socialism that will literally never manifest in real life in any meaningful way?

Good thread. It's making me think.

>>19332646
maybe it would have had a chance in some latin american country if the cia wasn't run by a bunch of alcoholic schizos

cuba would have eased up a lot if the massive imperialist borg to the north of them wasn't obsessively plotting against them at every turn

>>19333281
>it will work when geopolitics comes to an end and we all hold hands and sing kumbaya!

>>19333697
stopping the US from constantly acting in bad faith and undermining other nations is not "geopolitics coming to an end"

>>19333759
lmao yes it is. never mind the fact that the stateless classless utopia was never going to happen from the start, nations regime changing and identifying as communist and falling into the sphere of influence of rival superpowers is 100% a matter of geopolitics you absolute smoothbrain

>>19333773
in americas back yard no less, i should add

>>19327576
>You can apply Marx's solutions
Shame he doesn't have any actual solutions. Just different ways to make things worse

>you'll still end up having to fight against capitalist countries who want to fuck you up and steal your shit anyway
Not really Marx literally believed in basically the end of history theory where workers would just rise up by themselves because capitalist societies would always fail in the end. Internationalism was just to unite all the workers in a cute and valid utopian communist state not for self protection or some shit.

>>19327576
>The solution then must be international.
which completely negates human psychology, human sociology and man's natural state as a culture creator.

The nation state is something one should built upon, after so many emporers, kings and popes tried the internationalist appraoch, i.e., imperialism.

>>19327626
>The contradictory nature of capitalism which produces conflict, and dooms everyone by said contradictions?
It is multiculturalism that produces conflict; it wrecks all social cohesiveness and introduces entropy in all layers of society.

>>19333773
Cuba absolutely, 100% would have preferred to be on the good graces of the world's largest economy and military, which is mere miles away from them. The only reason they ever got as close as they did to the Soviets is because the US IMMEDIATELY began nakedly plotting to invade them as soon as the civil war was over. The US was clearly an existential threat to Cuba's socialist government. If Cuba did not work with the Soviets, the US would have illegally invaded Cuba within just a few years, killing who fucking knows how many civilians.

>>19333837
Also worth mentioning here is the US-backed Indonesian mass murder campaign against communists.

>>19333837
>killing who fucking knows how many civilians.
Indeed they US can't steal kills from the Cuban government

>>19333837
sounds like a matter of geopolitics to me?
>illegally invaded
lmao

>>19333855
State killings by socialist Cuba are trivial compared to what the previous regime got up to (US-backed btw, gotta get that sugar cane right). Maybe the US govt could have prevented these killings that they claim to be so horrified by if they didn't give the Cuban govt every reason to be paranoid

>>19333862
Okay if international law means nothing to you, then what about basic morality? What if we just chose not to mindlessly slaughter rubes en masse for no good reason?

>>19333886
yea man the US should have just chilled out and smoked some weeed instead of sending bad vibes during the height of the cold war when a potentially serious threat appeared a few miles off their coast

>>19333907
what do you think international law means when the violation is committed by the only party capable of enforcing it? international law and human rights are literally just back door imperialism for whomever is in control of the world order to project their will

>>19333886
>30 to 40 thousand people killed by the regime by executions or imprisonment and around the same number of people killed while trying to flee.

Yeah bro they were just paranoid so you have to kill everyone. Kind of pathetic hoe people like you always feel the need to blame everything on the US while they were just executing people left and right for the most menial things.

>>19333918
>30 to 40 thousand
lmao not even the black book of communism claims that amount

>>19333908
What serious threat? The US already had their spooks swarming all over the place and plotting an invasion before Cuba could even think of restarting formal relations with the US

>>19333954
...the existence of the regime is inherently a potentially serious threat, and I think having the privilege of making an optimistic assumption of logical good will on the part of the communists is a little bit easier for you to do sitting comfortably in 2021 than it would be when you're sitting in the hot seat at the height of the cold war on the brink of potential nuclear annihilation,

>>19333971
You had to be deranged to think the Soviets would just drop a nuke on the US unprovoked. Besides, the US was the one pointing their nukes at the USSR from Turkey before the "cuban missile crisis" ever happened.

>>19333998
and? The existence of the cuban regime was a potential threat whether or not literally who 21st century communist larper on 4chan wants to moralize about who is responsible for the cold war, or assert the US should have assumed the best and acted based on an assumption of both good will on behalf of them and dismissal of any potential surprises or threats that could arise, good will or not.

>>19333998
also
>You had to be deranged to think the Soviets would just drop a nuke on the US unprovoked.
Amazing insight from captain hindsight! unfortunately in real life fear of escalating tensions was a very real and common fear and limited to people who were "deranged"

>>19334072
*not limited

>>19333948
>Everything against muh ideology is propaganda! American Imperialism tho!!
Fuck off retard.

https://cubaarchive.org/

bump

>>19334097
>inb4 "it's ONLY (only) 10,723!"
That's the number the project has confirmed according to their standards which only entail detailing active execution. (Also, I'm not the anon who posted 40,000 executions and, frankly, how high the final tally is doesn't matter when it comes to recognizing the regime is evil).

>>19333886
>State killings by socialist Cuba are trivial...
This is how ideologues compute.