/lit/ - Literature

>>19298327
why abrahamic specifically? plenty of non-abrahamic religions are perfectly fine with eating meat

>>19298340
You'll have to explain their justification.

>>19298349
>the good earth provides for all
is about it across the board. what, in your mind, is the specifically abrahamic justification?

>>19298349
They are tasty, no other justification needed. You're just weak willed. Killing animals is normal and part of our nature, or do you think you know better than Jesus, Moses, Homer, pretty much any civilization besides the Janes and Hindus?
Pathetic.

>>19298382
We should strive to be more than the puppets of our instincts. Or do you think you know better than Pythagoras, Porphyry, Apollonius of Tyana, and Buddha?
Pathetic.

>>19298391
Explain your understanding of the so-called abrahamic justification for eating meat

>>19298391
Instincts keep us safe, so yes. Denying nature is just a mega cope

>19298400
Literally Genesis 9:3. Very low effort bait, not even giving you the (You)

>>19298400
I don't know, I'm not Op. I'm not even a vegetarian. I'm just not sure if I shouldn't be.

>>19298404
That's a bit general. We have a lot of instincts which could easily get us hurt or put is in jail in modern times.
Meat is tasty, women are rapeable, it's satisfying to kill somebody you don't like. But that's not a recipe for a very satisfying society.

>>19298415
To be fair, I shouldn't say "in modern times". All these traditionalist threads have infected my brain. There's pretty much no culture that doesn't put some boundaries around instincts, even dietary taboos.

>Plutarch - On Meat Eating
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/De_esu_carnium*/1.html

>Porphyry - On abstinence from animal food
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/porphyry_abstinence_01_book1.htm

Hitler planned to ban abattoirs and send meatoids to camps:
>Heinrich Himmler made an effort to ban the hunting of animals.[4] Hermann Göring was a professed animal lover and conservationist,[5] who, on instructions from Hitler, committed Germans who violated Nazi animal welfare laws to concentration camps. In his private diaries, Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels described Hitler as a vegetarian whose hatred of the Jewish religion in large part stemmed from the ethical distinction this faith drew between the value of humans and the value of other animals; Goebbels also mentions that Hitler planned to ban slaughterhouses in the German Reich following the conclusion of World War II.[6]

>>19298327
If you don't want to eat animals, don't eat them. eat fake meat and let your teeth fall out.

@19298413
imagine being salty over getting asked for sources

The Prometheus myth about animal sacrifice tells us that the best meats are for humans, while the fat and bones are for Zeus. There you go, King of The Gods and of Justice Zeus ordained it

>>19298415
I want to be honest with you it took years of indoctrination before this idea of rape even popped up in my mid.
I guess genetics are different.

>>19298444
Fair enough, but how much of our meat eating is also enculturated? I see a lot of conflicting idea about early man and meat eating but it's not like our DNA tells us how to braise a duck.

>>19298382
>You're just weak willed.

These kids who bitch about meat being murder are just oversocialized. Starve them and they'll happily eat meat without compunction.

Brutality and death are the law of this world, which is and always has been a massive graveyard. Animals don't truly understand what death is, and thus cannot suffer from its anticipation or experience in the way that humans can. Imagine spending even five minutes of your limited human lifespan worrying about whether it's ethical to eat animals. What a dumb, intellectually mastubatory waste of time.

>>19298462
I got vegan for 2 years and i turned my head to every meat like smelling local i passed by.
I can stop with sugar. I can even go no fap.
But whats really hard is meet and smoking.

>>19298473
Cope. Indian poors have been refusing to eat meat for millennia

>>19298484
go be an untouchable then, see how you like it

>>19298484
I don't care how many retarded Indians are vegetarians. Indians are the clown-slave race of the world.

>>19298444
Meat is for me like the second day of smoking. the third is the hardest. But it doesnt stop it goes on for month and month and month.

>>19298327
B vitamins

>>19298327
nigga gotta eat

>>19298426
None of those Natsoc laws banned eating meat, they are all intended to eliminate waste and unnecessary suffering to the animals.

The time where is stop eat animals is the time where A: israel ramps up the artificial meat production to an affordable price.
B: i got genetically chanced.

Lots of seething anons in my thread but no justification that does not rest upon abrahamic understanding

>WAAAAH BUT U A VEGAN
No I'm not a vegan. I just ate a delicious beef and veg stew. My point stands, if might is not right what justification do we have besides 'God told the Jew Abraham that we can eat anything, oh and cut off the tip of all cocks' do we have? If you agree with the abrahamic interpretation (everything with a hoof was put here for us) then you must also agree with the abrahmic belief that it is perfectly acceptable to have sex with a girl who is above age 3 so long as she is a non jew..... He did say that. Why would you cherry pick the things he said?

So. If might is right then murder is justifiable, as is rape. Come on /lit/ explain it to me, or do you not understand it yourself? Are you a midwit?

>incoming random seething replies

>>19298512
I find myself rejecting battery farming because it essentially puts the animal in a state of suffering for its entire life in a way that seems like it would be fairly universal for warm-blooded creatures. That seems fairly self-evident. But if that suffering is wrong, how not to extend it to the infliction of other forms of suffering like killing it so I can have a slightly nicer lunch? What makes untrammelled meat eating 'necessary'?

Animals are surprisingly smart and form social bonds, live rich internal lives, and can fear and suffer probably to the same degree that humans can (at least pigs, cows, and chickens).

It is pretty gay to be a full blown militant vegan but I try to keep my meat consumption to a minimum just because I want to minimize my role in inflicting torturous suffering. Sure it tastes good sometimes, but impossible burgers are actually pretty awesome and so are vegetarian meals if you can cook them right.

The only thing cringier than an annoying vegan are the anti-vegans who are proud meat eaters and refer to pigs as "lolol bacon so tasty xD"

>>19298528
>Prometheus matched himself in wit with the almighty son of Cronos. For when the gods and mortal men had a dispute at Mecone, even then Prometheus was forward to cut up a great ox and set portions before them, trying to befool the mind of Zeus. Before the rest he set flesh and inner parts thick with fat upon the hide, covering them with an ox paunch; but for Zeus he put the white bones dressed up with cunning art and covered with shining fat (Hesiod).

>>19298528
I don't excuse anything as i had money i bought the well cared meet now i buy the cheap one.

>>19298382
>Killing animals is normal and part of our nature
So is killing people. History and crime stats are full of it.

>>19298528
>>19298565
>Zeus, most glorious and greatest of the eternal gods, take whichever of these portions your heart within you bids. So he said, thinking trickery. But Zeus, whose wisdom is everlasting, saw and failed not to perceive the trick, and in his heart he thought mischief against mortal men which also was to be fulfilled. With both hands he took up the white fat and was angry at heart, and wrath came to his spirit when he saw the white ox-bones craftily tricked out and because of this the tribes of men upon earth burn white bones to the deathless gods upon fragrant altars (Hesiod).
eating meat is a privilege of untold magnitude

>>19298391
>Or do you think you know better than Pythagoras, Porphyry, Apollonius of Tyana, and Buddha?
Yes.

>>19298528
>that does not rest upon abrahamic understanding
You are insane, humanity has been eating meat since the dawn of time, to call that abrahamic only shows you yourself are one.

>>19298577
Yeah thats maybe so for you. But i am pretty sure i will catch something on my own, if i get deprived from it. :D
It just takes 5 hours of no food and no meet for me to start to feel the raw animal inside me. :D

>>19298596

>>19298595
>humanity has been sacrificing children since the dawn of time....
>humanity has been practicing cannablism since the dawn of time....
Do I need to keep going?

>>19298565
>It is not possible to be familiar with a god – not even with one of the particular gods, let alone the god who singly is above all and higher than incorporeal nature – by following just any lifestyle, especially flesh-eating; one can hardly, even with all kinds of purifications of soul and body, become worthy of awareness of the god, that is if one has a fine nature and lives a pure and holy life. (3) So, inasmuch as the father of all is simpler and purer and more self-sufficient, being established far from the impact made by matter, the one who approaches him should be pure and holy in all respects, beginning with the body and culminating in the inner man

>>19298604
Yes i am pretty close to my northern ancestors if its this what you want to say. Maybe even more primordial as this. My town is filled with granny's i wont starve under any circumstances.
I am a pretty reasonable person, but if we run out of food just tell me in advance so i can prepare.

>>19298617
That may be so, but says who?

>>19298615
So you're saying we should start sacrificing children?

>>19298629
ohhhhh, right right uhh take your meds lol

We as humans were gifted the right to eat meat, by the same being that has gifted us Fire. I for one will cherish that fact

>>19298640
I dont care what you think. And i like puppy's more as humans. And if the countdown is at 0%, it rises by 10% evey 1-5 hours, and after 10-20 hours the timer is on kill, and you only a meat sack.

>>19298634
The quote is from Porphyry. The neoplatonists in general seem not to be fans of steak.

>>19298644
I have no idea what you're trying to say here

>Roman Catholic monastic orders such as the Carthusians and Cistercians follow a pescatarian diet. Carmelites and others following the Rule of St. Albert also maintain a vegetarian diet, although the old and sick are permitted to eat meat according to this rule of life.

>>19298649
I know that not everyone is like this, for example some of my friends. But if i am 20 hours awake with no food i will get food no matter what.

>>19298615
Dammit completely missing the point. You are stupid, its your Christian mindset, you have to moralise, it doesnt occur to you that I was not making a moral statement, just pointing out a fact, that is the consumption of meat predates the Abrahamic religion by millions of years

>>19298649
>>19298668
Sleeping time is not included in my timer. :D
The most izzy food source with much calories in my are needs sadly 3 days to prepare.

>>19298617
Dozens of meat eaters would deny this and claim they have experienced God.

>>19298649
You see the main problem is, if people would lie to be about a shortage, and the timer is already at 50% and i need 1-2 days to find enough food that's bad for other people.

>>19298673
There's a good deal of an overlap between vegetarian diet and monastic types through history though. It does seem to recur as a purificatory practice that doesn't easily fit into the PETA-vs-McDonalds paradigm.

>>19298649
I totally know how to sustain my self if i find the stuff i need. But i have an very very short timer before my hunting instincts set in.

>>19298670
I'm not Christian lmfao and you aren't explaining anything. You're arguing for the sake of arguing but won't address any of the points in my thread.

The fact you keep assuming I'm a filthy christfaggot makes me think you must be trolling.

>>19298726
Thats just about getting the body into ketosis and not stimulating the erotic faculties. Monastic groups in more northern countries achieved the same thing with an all meat diet.

>>19298528
>If you agree with the abrahamic interpretation (everything with a hoof was put here for us) then you must also agree with the abrahmic belief that it is perfectly acceptable to have sex with a girl who is above age 3 so long as she is a non jew
How does one follow the other? Do you genuinely believe that if I agree with Hitler saying that children are the future of a nation, then I'm somehow a hitlerist?

>>19298735
Still not getting my argument are you?

Never mind, the world of facts doesnt exist too someone like you, its all emotion and moral posturing. I pity you.

>>19298572
And?

>>19298745
False equivalent. You're doing everything you can to dodge addressing any of the questions.

Where does the justification come from? How does this question lead to you talking about Adolf Hitler? Seriously? Stop with the analogies I'm not even reading them if you won't address the basic morality question in my OP you aren't worth talking to.

>>19298382
As with every time I see this kind of post. here's to hoping a pack of wild niggers rape and eat your family

>>19298748
>I pity you
I don't think about you at all.

>>19298765
I'm not the one who drew the equivalence between that one genesis verse and the entirety of abrahamic theology you faggot.

>>19298770
Thats literally not true, you respond to me.

>>19298772
>>19298778
>still no justification
>still arguing from emotion
You won't justify it because you can't justify it. Go on tell me I'm stupid again while adding nothing to the thread.

i really wouldn't go for farmers, in an all in life or death situation. The food is better in the wild and my bet is that most people try to rob the farmers.

>>19298788
I provided justification beforehand, which, like the disingenuous scrotum that you are, you completely ignored.
>>19298565
>>19298577

>>19298788
Stop lying, you are obviously upset and thinking about me.

>>19298791
I am OP and I am a farmer. So I'm going after myself right?

I only inherited 1.7k acres.

>>19298799
>Muh religious justification

>>19298807
>muh religious justification
>GUYS THE ONLY JUSTIFICATIONS THAT ARE VALID ARE EITHER ABRAHAMIC OR BASED ON POWER
not my problem that you don't see value in honour or tradition or respect

>>19298813
The pagan religions sacrificed children and were pro rape. If you don't understand the issue with religious justification I don't have the will or want to explain it to you.

>>19298807
Yeah the situation is pretty different from where i am. I would probably die on your land. Seems very flat to me. I am from the mountains, most farmers are in the valleys and very little farmers. I guess the towns will stream manly into the valley's. Cause its the "most izzy" source of food. But i would go into the wild cause i know most plants and stuff.
If you have mountains you have "untouched areas"

>>19298825
He, stop making every argument about morality.

>>19298825
Why do you think that agreeing with one element of a religion is equivalent to agreeing with the entire religion?

>ITT: ascended philosophers who complain about morally bankrupt hedonist degenerates taking over the world instantly revert back to chimps as soon as a simple matter of compassion is brought up
you're all fucking pathetic

imagine all the god trusting community people in one place, helping each other out, after an total breakdown. And i with an full belly on my mountain, wondering if the manage it to get there stuff together. :D
Anyone else feel as if we should go all in against china?

>>19298615
anon...

>>19298545
How does one even begin to quantify something like suffering across different species??

I don't really see why not eat meat though? Because it causes suffering? And that's bad why?

Morals aren't even real it would appear.

>>19299061
You can’t. I don’t eat meat simply because I’m over compassionate and sensitive, but creating a universal system to weigh suffering isn’t possible.

>>19298473
>Starve them and they'll happily eat meat without compunction
>le pig on le island

kys

>>19298865
i cant even tell who you're criticizing from this horrible fucking sentence

>>19298327
Because we dont care about animals in the same way as people? You dont engage in ideological conversations with animals. they do not preform the same societal roles as people, they do not engage in higher forms of ideology or dynamic system making. Why does a pig care if it dies by a stake to the head or by porcine colara? Does it make a difference its method of cessation? Its fine to eat animals in the same way that its fine to eat humans. its just flesh, that use to be an active organism. But the Human organism has created mutual or imposed ideals about the treatment of active societal members that care and proactively forwards such abstractions. There is also nothing wrong with eating soilent green (people), its just that we by and large find the ritual distasteful because those active members of society do not want their bodies to be consumed. Its a false equilovent since we dont treat people the same as animals to begin with.

I find the question of why veganism became a thing AFTER the alienation of man from their animal products WAY more interesting then the pretty self evident reasons why we eat animals. No one blinked an eye when the house wife would break a chickens neck and pluck its feathers, but somehow onces people were distanced from animals they started caring about and projecting on them more.

>>19299382
>Because we dont care about animals in the same way as people?
I don't care about you as much as I care about my cat, that doesn't mean I believe that your life is worthless.

You know I've thought a lot about the animal eating issue and the reason why I despise people so much is not that they advocate for the killing and eating of animals, but the carelessness with which they approach the issue. Even in Abrahamic religions, the point of sacrificing a lamb was that it would be something you were depriving yourself of. These ancient people lived in a time of scarcity, where everything they did was necessary. Being a hard vegetarian on the ethical grounds that killing and eating animals is wrong largely comes from a position of privilege, in the sense that someone living today will never have to worry about running out of food. Fuck's sake obesity is a widespread problem now and burger fat fucks are terrified of eating meat as infrequently as once a week because they think they'll suffer from horrible illnesses. I understand that if you live in a cold region and you hunt you probably have a lesser impact than a vegetarian living in the city. I understand all the various conditions of necessity by which people who lived in the past, without the technological comforts of today, would simply have to accept starvation in order to be "good people". I understand this. I cannot condemn the act of killing an animal for food. What fucking pisses me off is the attitude that people have, all of them, all you pieces of shit, that there is zero worth to a beast's suffering. It's appalling that one would have so little respect for anything, even objects, it's disgusting, it's devilish. The vast majority of people who argue about this have this smug positivity about it, almost a pride about it, this thinly veiled sadism. You truly are rotten inside, this is why I hate you and I hate people. There are none who are capable of putting any value into what is killed for them to eat. You're spoiled brats who LARP on a board about knowledge yet you do not know the worth of anything. You really disgust me, this is legit the #1 reason why I want to live my life away from society. You're a bunch of demons, not because of your love of eating, but because the love of eating makes everything attached to the eating also good, you are so narcissistic you won't even allow yourself to think that something has been lost to feed you. Fucking hell, I fucking hate you all.

>>19298473
>Animals don't truly understand what death is, and thus cannot suffer from its anticipation or experience in the way that humans can.
How fucking retarded can you be? It's baffling that there are people like you writing in a literature board

>>19298767
You've really wowed me with your higher sense morality there, bucko.

>>19299472
>as much as
vs
>in the same way as
You are misconstruing my argument as one of degrees rather than one of kinds.

I dont think I put any positivity in my argument at all. I feel you may be lashing out. Its not sadism, I would say its a simple difference in core ontology.
People dont necissarily evaluate suffering equally, or have it as a main criteria of ethics.

>>19299472
Based

>>19299472
Lol, I'll keep slaughtering my rabbits and chickens and goats and you keep seething my friend.

>>19299549
And the worms will eat your rotten soulless husk of a body one day and nothing will be lost. You're just one of the billion pieces of trash the world doesn't need.

>>19299549
Can you really rip the skin off a rabbit/hare like in RDR2? Yes I'm a city slicker.

>>19299587
Anon do you also get mad about lions eating antelopes or some shit?

>>19299587
life is suffering anon, and unless you are hurting something for the explicit purpose of watching it suffer, I see no reason to hunt a rabbit. Of course the guy is being inflamitory.

>>19299592
Never played that game, but you just cut off the head and front feet, slice the skin around the hind legs, cut down towards the anus, cut around the tail, then pull. Comes off pretty easily, some people call it the "sock," and it does work like that I suppose.

>>19298327
Low IQ post.

>>19299619
I might be being inflammatory, but I'm not lying about doing it. I think it's more moral to eat an animal that you kill and slaughter yourself than just buying a burger at some restaurant. It's healthier too.

>>19299587
>spiderman_pointing_at_spiderman.jpg

>>19298473
>If you were starving you'd eat meat
Wow that blew my mind bro. The argument for veganism is that if you're not starving, you don't need to eat any animal products, so why do it if it causes enormous suffering?

>>19299690
> it causes enormous suffering?
a bolt to the head does not cause enormous suffering. stress meat tastes bad besides.
Seems, mayhaps, you are against particular farming practices than veganism proper?