/lit/ - Literature

>>19296724
Guenon talk about the Hyperboreans and the Hyperborean tradition you leftist cuck

>>19296769
I am not a leftist, I am against any type of political or social ideologies.
Guenon's writings about Hyperborea have nothing to do with nordicist racial fantasies.

>>19296724
The existence of indo-europeans is an accepted truth.

>>19296790
>fantasies.

>>19297061
Is just an academic label, the "indo-europeans" never seen themselves as an unified people.
>accepted truth
Darwinism, progress, etc. are also coneidered to be accepted truths. Do you support them?

>>19296724
>some people on 4chan try to do the same with Guenon.
Haven't noticed this, /pol/ lives in your head rent-free. Guenon is automatically above politics, no matter what anybody does this will not change. But by you making this thread, you're pushing him into this realm yourself, insofar as such a thing is possible.

Your post begs the question: assuming Hyperborea was real, would the modern Swedes not be the most pure remnants of this race? There are also the countless references to "pale, tall, golden-haired" men coming to colonise/civilise ancient societies all over the world, like the toltecs or the incas or "pre-incas". There were 4000-5000 year old mummies who were described as geneticists as "Swedish". The tale of the founding of the first chinese empire speaks of tale, pale, blue-eyed "giants" teaching them the ways of the empire as well, which corresponds to the era that these mummies are from, about 4500 years ago. Pic related.

I don't really care about politics that much, but this topic interests me. In ancient egypt, the oldest mummies found have red hair and white skin. This has now been genetically confirmed btw, because they used to say it was henna or aging. Note that red-hair is not Swedish, at least as far as I know. Mohammed, pbuh, was also said to have red hair. The supposed hair from his beard is red, muslim men still dye their beards red to honour him, and his direct paternal descendent is a straight-up blue-eyed ginger.

I believe many of these ancient civilisations were a lot more white than mainstream academic assume. The Scythians as described by Herodotus were said to be all red-heads as well. There are also rare cases of people with red hair in Italy, even in the center/South.

>>19297072
Which race/ethnic group is behind all these languages?

>>19297105
Well, there's something quite fucky about an advanced, sprawling civilization of blue-eyed redheads (who have blond children with dark-haired partners) that existed across the entire continent since before biblical times until Mohammed at least AND LEFT NO TRACES OF SAID EXISTENCE.

Might be that the legendary ginger-talk is literally memes, as people love to invent things that makes themselves and their idols special, and create relations that tie them to said idols. You know, how many Medieval kings loved to trace their genealogy back to Adam/Abraham/Romulus/Alexander the Great, or like how faggots tend to claim that every historical figure they like was actually secretly gay or trans. It's a very old trend. The only difference here is that their hypothesis does not require inventing an entire hidden civilization of homos from Transsexual, Transylvania.

>>19297105
PBUH

>>19297131
The oldest mummy in Egypt was called ginger for his red hair, Ramses II and his father are genetically confirmed to have had red or red-blonde hair and pale skin. Then there is of course Mohammed, pbuh, the description of the Scythians, possibly even Alexander, or maybe most of the berbers....I'm just bringing these facts up and asking for an explanation. What do you mean they left no traces? they have left traces, but as for their phenotype, it is rare and as the races mix would start to disappear. We know that they weren't black africans or asians...

>>19297149
>The oldest mummy in Egypt was called ginger for his red hair
They were also an accidental and pre-Dynastic one, and we don't have a DNA analysis of any sort of it. There are numerous theories for their origin since Egypt happens to be located on the highway of Africa-Europe-and-back tribal migration - shittons of various peoples lived and passed through it. Also, those mummies are remarkably short even for the people of their time, which kinda conflicts with the
>"pale, tall, golden-haired"
thing.

>Ramses II and his father are genetically confirmed to have had red or red-blonde hair
Correct.
>and pale skin
Wrong.

>Then there is of course Mohammed, pbuh, the description of the Scythians, possibly even Alexander, or maybe most of the berbers
And this is just memery.

>I'm just bringing these facts up and asking for an explanation
You're not just bringing up the facts - you're cherry-picking facts and painting an image to fit a preconceived idea, while discarding anything that contradicts it. You're not searching for truth - you're brainwashing yourself and getting angry at others refusing to take your kool-aid.

>>19297105
Even if what you say is true, it makes no difference from the traditional point of view.

Your opinion was refuted by Guenon in the "Atlantis and Hyperborea" article:

"Finally, Le cour takes advantage of these circumstances to affirm once again the anti-metaphysical and anti-initiatic theory of Western 'individualism', which is after all his own concern and involves only himself; and he adds, with a note of pride indicating quite well that he is hardly free from individual contingencies: 'We maintain our point of view because we are ancestors in the domain of knowledge'. This claim is truly a little extraordinary - does Le Cour then believe himself to be so ancient? Not only are modern Westerners not the ancestors of anyone, they are not even legitimate descendants, for they have lost the key to their own tradition; it is not 'in the East that there has been deviation', whatever might be said by those who are ignorant of everything pertaining to the Eastern doctrines. The 'ancestors', to take up Le Cour's word, are the effective holders of the primordial tradition; there could not be any others, and, in the present age, these will certainly not be found in the West."

>>19297132
Funny that according to Islam, Jesus was brown and Moses was black. Only Muhammad being described as white.

>>19297131
>LEFT NO TRACES OF SAID EXISTENCE
They left the R1a haplogroup. But also culture. If you're taking a traditional view, why so quick to dismiss ancient beliefs as memes and idols?
Guénon on material evidence:
>It is a curious fact that there are no monuments in India dating from before this period, the orientalists having tried to make this fact tell in favor of their tendency to find the origins of everything in Buddhism, the importance of which they strangely exaggerate. The explanation of the fact is nevertheless quite simple; it is that all earlier constructions were of wood and have therefore left no trace.
>This is a state of affairs not peculiar to India, but met with in the West as well; it is for the same reason that no traces remain of the cities of the Gauls, the existence of which is however undeniable, being testified to by contemporary witnesses; and here also modern historians have profited by the lack of monuments to depict the Gauls as savages living in forests.

>>19297220
Slight of hand. Are we talking about the state of the modern world or population migrations in the ancient?
>Not only are modern Westerners not the ancestors of anyone
>modern

>>19297279
>They left the R1a haplogroup
The R1a haplogroup predates ALL civilization. By, like, a lot. And haplogroups by themselves denote nothing more than a common ancestry. You can arbitrarily pick any other genetic marker indicating common ancestry (like SRGAP2, showing common ancestry of all Homo and Australopithecus) and use it as an indicator of an ancient Australopithecus civilization.

>If you're taking a traditional view, why so quick to dismiss ancient beliefs as memes and idols?
They are all memes until proven otherwise. They may direct us to more substantial theories if we find more evidence, but more often than not they are fiction.

>Guénon
We have much more material evidence of Gauls aside from accounts of their contemporaries. If they were all we had about Gauls, we would not consider them as undeniable as we do now.

>>19296724
there's nothing that can be done. just like modernity shows increasing signs of decay it is only natural that authors like guénon will be falsely taken as spokesman of an active counter-initiation evolian movement.

the popularization of guénon and all the shitposting around him is only proof of the increasing decline. best that can be done is to not mention him anymore. /pol/ minded people will never care about the higher principles, they put matter above all and fall for american politics/race issues.

the lower man of the will and vanity will proceed to exclaim 'muh race'

>>19297279
>Slight of hand. Are we talking about the state of the modern world or population migrations in the ancient?
The point is that you are not at all better than a non-westerner just because you have western ancestors. Superiority is not based on race.

>>19297314
>the popularization of guénon and all the shitposting around him is only proof of the increasing decline. best that can be done is to not mention him anymore.

Completely agreed. This will be my last thread about him. I will only reply to Guenon threads or replies, but only if they are worth replying to. I hope that others who agree with this will act in the same way and no longer get involved in this shitposting.

>>19297297
>The R1a haplogroup predates ALL civilization
Almost as if R1a and civilization are being spread by the same ancestors.
>haplogroups by themselves denote nothing more than a common ancestry
Which was the point in the Op, right? Whether there's a "community of race"
>They are all memes until proven otherwise.
Why bother with traditionalism if what you actually want is modern western-scientific standards of proof?
Giving the direct accounts of ancient people a fair hearing is, at least, often the first step to proving them.

>>19297329
Okay - and I wonder if that's perhaps a reason why the man himself didn't really want to get into it?
But he did, and I think we can question his conclusion in the same spirit.
There are two separate issues in terms of "did this thing happen" vs "should we rebrand it as 'Germanic' to prop up a political ideal".
You could just as easily frame it as an example of just how far a certain group has declined, rather than anything to proud of.

>>19296790
>Guenon's writings about Hyperborea have nothing to do with nordicist racial fantasies.
Guénon says that the Vedas ( remember that for him Advaita Vedanta is the purest metaphysical synthesis) come from the Hyperboreans
This is even more /pol/ than the classical thesis of the Indo-Europeans

>>19297430
Again, this has nothing to do with CONTEMPORARY racial superiority.

"Finally, Le cour takes advantage of these circumstances to affirm once again the anti-metaphysical and anti-initiatic theory of Western 'individualism', which is after all his own concern and involves only himself; and he adds, with a note of pride indicating quite well that he is hardly free from individual contingencies: 'We maintain our point of view because we are ancestors in the domain of knowledge'. This claim is truly a little extraordinary - does Le Cour then believe himself to be so ancient? Not only are modern Westerners not the ancestors of anyone, they are not even legitimate descendants, for they have lost the key to their own tradition; it is not 'in the East that there has been deviation', whatever might be said by those who are ignorant of everything pertaining to the Eastern doctrines. The 'ancestors', to take up Le Cour's word, are the effective holders of the primordial tradition; there could not be any others, and, in the present age, these will certainly not be found in the West."

>>19297445
your quote talk about individualism you retard
how racial solidarity is individualism?

>>19297518
Are you retarded?

"Not only are modern Westerners not the ancestors of anyone, they are not even legitimate descendants, for they have lost the key to their own tradition; it is not 'in the East that there has been deviation', whatever might be said by those who are ignorant of everything pertaining to the Eastern doctrines. The 'ancestors', to take up Le Cour's word, are the effective holders of the primordial tradition; there could not be any others, and, in the present age, these will certainly not be found in the West."

>racial solidarity
Guenon married an arab and practiced Islam. Is this racial solidarity? We are talking about Guenon here, not your views, just say that you disagree with him.

Imagine professing to believe in something like non-dualism and a primordial Tradition but still caring about biological race afterwards. Most /pol/tards are materialists in denial, desperately trying to LARP with some sort of pseudo-spiritual façade that is ultimately warped to meet their political needs

>>19297600
I am not at all a fan of Evola but even he called racialism "biological materialism". At this point I think that internet culture is just online american culture, everyone is obsessed with race.

>>19297646
Yeah I’ve browsed a few different places before that have attacked even people like Evola and Spengler as ‘cucked’ because they downplay biological race for something like a ‘spiritual race’ of some kind. Bringing in any sort of spiritual angle is moving too dangerously close to ‘egalitarianism’ or something, apparently. I’m not surprised that race is the new hot topic, given what the media has been trying to stir up for the last five or six years, and what has happened in Europe. It’s an obvious D&C tactic everyone is falling for, sadly.

>>19297600
A multiplicity of traditions, appropriate to different civilizations. It's not an argument for putting them in all in the blender of mass-migration for cynical economic reasons. Especially when you're citing an author who believed in the caste system. Just who do you think is coming?

>>19297686
>caste system
I am not going to spend another 10 minutes to write here a long quote from Guenon's chapter on the caste system from his Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines. Go and read it. He said that caste is not necessary hereditary and modern westerners are wrong in thinking so. He also said that "varna" (which means colour) refers to symbolical colours which determinate the quality of the caste but not in a racial way. Also, in India, a northern brahmin with light skin would rather marry a tamil brahmin with darker skin, than a lower caste person with lighter skin from the same village.

>>19297686
I never said that I support mass-migration. Why do you feel the need to be either pro or anti when it comes to such profane topics? This is mob mentality. If the european population will be replaced with non-whites or if will be again fully white, what change will this make from the traditional and metaphysical point of view? 100(and more) years ago, Europe was fully white and they supported the most anti-traditional and anti-metaphysical ideas in the history of this world. Was that good? Europe has nothing to defend, everything was already lost long time ago. Save your soul and finish with this nonsense or perish with your beloved modern europeans.

>>19297686
Look at this /pol/tard who thinks just because one doesn’t sperg over biological race constantly that therefore they support mass-immigration. Every single time

>>19297784
What on earth do you think is the source of /pol/'s racial antagonism if not mass migration and mass replacement? It's implicit in your own topic.
The idea that one's ethnic heritage is irrelevant and interchangeable is just as modern a phenomenon as the misguided attempt to make them the most important element in the equation.
>what change will this make from the traditional and metaphysical point of view
The further eradication Europe's own traditions and the opportunity for their rebirth in new forms as those places which first entered the decline of modernity potentially become the beginning of the pendulum swing in the other direction. As well as the decline of the native traditions of other nations as they are scattered and diluted by diaspora and compromise with the democratic model.
Of course this ALL irrelevant from an ultimately metaphysical point of view. But not so irrelevant that you didn't post about it, that Guenon didn't discuss it. Because that principle metaphysical requires structures to express it on the human level. Structures intimately bound up with ethnic groups.

>>19297784
>>19297890
Ethnic groups which you seem suspiciously intent on undermining any positive view of.

>However, the first manifestations of the revolt of the Kshatriyas against the authority of the Brahmins lie much futher back than the beginning of this age, a beginning that is itself far earlier than anything known to ordinary or 'profane' history. This opposition of the two powers, this rivalry between their respective representatives, was depicted among the Celts as a wild boar and a bear locked in combat, a symbolism of Hyperborian origin and thus connected to one of the most ancient traditions of humanity (if not the oldest of all), the true primordial tradition.

>Hyperborian origin
>the oldest of all
>the true primordial tradition

>>19297890
>muh Hyperborea
LARP

>>19297901
I already wrote about the relations between hyperboreans and modern westerners. I am not going to repeat myself.
>>19297890
>eradication Europe's own traditions
They are already dead in the social domain. Only as an individual you can make use of them.
>the opportunity for their rebirth in new forms as those places which first entered the decline of modernity potentially become the beginning of the pendulum swing in the other direction
Since we are in the Kali Yuga and the 'end times' of christianity, there is no rebirth possible out of the older forms. A golden age will come only with a catastrophe. The majority of non-westerners are also westernized at this point so the whole world has to change.

>>19297928
I should also add that this change can come only with the help of the divine. The second coming of Christ from christianity, Mahdi from islam and Kalki from hinduism. All religions imply this divine intervention.

Niggers tongue my anus
Bump

>>19297928
>>19297976
An individual can still recognize that there /should/ be a connection between spirit, state and ethnos, though. Even if one looks abroad for something better preserved, the motivating factor is still the lack of it within one's own community - and in the end that's need rebirth in a form unique to its own character just as, say, an Egyptian and a Fijian Muslim may be equal in the eyes of God but they're not interchangeable units.
It can come from divine intervention, I don't mind.

>>19298432
>they're not interchangeable units
ok so Guenon's decision to practice Islam and have a family in that "foreign" culture was a mistake?

>>19297240
The berbers were white, most of these ancient raced were, at least in the upper castes, including greeks and romans. The commoners of those last two civs looked more like modern day meds. They have studied ancient grave sites and proven this. Modern day political correctness and events of ww2 keeps people from talking about. They are fucking horrified of the possibility, like this retard>>19297196

>>19296724
Aryan makes as much sense if not more than "Caucasian". But why would i listen to an Islamic convert anyways, of course he will be wrong on this.

>>19297220
>Not only are modern Westerners not the ancestors of anyone, they are not even legitimate descendants, for they have lost the key to their own tradition
Obvously true considering this guy had to convert to Islam to find meaning. But why does he frame it as lost rather than taken by Christians.

>>19297745
>Also, in India, a northern brahmin with light skin would rather marry a tamil brahmin with darker skin, than a lower caste person with lighter skin from the same village.
And that's why India is the way it is now.

>>19297445
It isn't about racial superiority you faggot, it's about the fact that the ancient root race was white af, and modern academia is covering it up. Whether questions of racial superiority arise from this fact shouldn't matter. Just because Guenon was a high-level priest initiate and didn't have to care about race at an individual level doesn't mean that's true for you or the rest of the world. Its like you're trying to use Guenon to push this cucked worldview of ignoring race while at the same time calling people /pol/ incels who are simply interested in the fact that many ancient rulers from what are now non-white lands turned out to be white. Stop using Guenon as a shield to push your retarded racial views while accusing others of doing the same thing. Guenon is separate from this. Yes, it turns out the farther back you go in ancient civilisations worthy of the name the whiter people are. Stop coping and seething about /pol/, they don't matter.

>>19298751
>tradition right
>except when its wrong
At least Guénon sticks to the axioms

>>19298728
He isn't wrong, faggots like OP are using Guenon to justify their cucked modern racial views. Guenon didn't care about race, in the same way he didn't care about politics or academia. That doesn't mean he thought all racial groups were equal or should be mixed up. OP is a retard.

>>19297745
>Also, in India, a northern brahmin with light skin would rather marry a tamil brahmin with darker skin, than a lower caste person with lighter skin from the same village.
But ideally in antiquity they wouldn't have had to make this decision, because the upper castes were pale and the lower castes dark.

Yiu leave mister Guenon right where you found him!

>>19297928
Modern westerners, specifically northwestern europeans, are probably the closest genetically to the hyperboreans.

>>19296724
To be honest, I think the problem lies with you. It sounds like you are eager to associate things with /pol/ or /pol/tards.

>>19298794
Caring about genes to this extent is simple materialism.

>>19298764
Tradition can be misunderstood. Maybe the concept of race and caste got muddled up over generations. No one's perfect, not the Brahmins of India and not Guenon. And it's characteristic of nobility to not care as much about race. It's very White. But it's also an Achilles heel.

>>19296724
>denies PIE and its linguistic reality
>denies the cast system
For someone woke on the Jews as a race you'd think he would understand race in general.

>>19298752
All you are is because of /pol/. Ideas beyond the material are beyond you.
Stop reading Gaynon and become/stay a bodybuilder racist.

>>19297314
>/pol/ minded people will never care about the higher principles, they put matter above all and fall for american politics/race issues.
The trad cuck exposes himself. When I ever get an inch of power, you Guenonfags are the first to go.

the amount of seething in this thread is incredible, I will leave it here. I said ehat I had to say, now keep seething cause idc

>>19298856
This is just a cope for inferior beings, you are not an ascendant master, just common filth and pretending there is a duality to nature is just a trick. When we find your kind and imprison them, it will end right there.

>>19298805
I agree, but what about the occult significance of blood? and the metaphysical implications of melanin rejecting sunlight? or the Traditional belief that the darker "savage" races are just degenerated offshoots from paste cycles far beyond memory? and that sub-saharans and the 3rd world masses in general represent the "inferior demonic" forces of the south and not the light of the north? Biological race isn't as important as many make it out to be, but it is still connected to important things, generally speaking. To imply society should totally forget about it because Guenon, an enlightened brahmin, didn't care about it at an individual level is pure cope. People who do this are just soft, you haven't reached that state of enlightenment yourself, and don't try forcing it on others because you afraid of rejecting modern egalitarian counter-traditional racial views.

>>19298856
/pol/ lives in your head rent free, I don't care about /pol/ at all, I've been on this site since 2010.

>>19298848
>And it's characteristic of nobility to not care as much about race.
you belong on tumblr, Guenon isn't justifying your pozzed, counter-traditional worldviews.

>>19298878
That isn't even a Guenonfag, it's an obvious leftist cuck falseflagging.

>>19298887
Assuming you're OP, you're a fool. You claim Guenon is beyond petty racial views, then you make a thread deceptively making it seem like Guenon was picking a side, more or less openly inviting people to come and argue about this in the context of Guenon. I'm not sure if it was your intent to be this subversive, if so you've succeeded.

>>19298878
>counter-initiatory demon vowing to purge upholders of true Tradition
Sasuga /pol/

>>19298899
I don't imply society should totally forget about it, it's importance is tertiary is my point. You can tell yourself some story where race is more important than that, but it's just a story. The same with Guenon really, it's a nice story that of the primordial tradition, but it is a story.

We don't need to believe in any particular story, the core of spirituality is being here, now, as opposed to making a cage out of words for your mind.

>>19298933
>anybody who cares about race is muh /pol/
You are no less retarded.

>>19298960
what about the occult significance of blood? and the metaphysical implications of melanin rejecting sunlight? or the Traditional belief that the darker "savage" races are just degenerated offshoots from paste cycles far beyond memory? and that sub-saharans and the 3rd world masses in general represent the "inferior demonic" forces of the south and not the light of the north?

This is Rene Guenon with his arab wife and race-mixed daughters. Racialists keep seething when they see this family. Move on to Evola or Miguel Serrano, we don't need you.

>>19298969
Some stories some people made up. Spirituality is not a rigid thing.

>>19299107
Racialists are mad because they can’t even get Arab pussy, let alone White

>>19296724
Another day, another guenon shill thread

>>19299107
redbar me on serrano. Tried to read the last avatar but he lost me 200 pages in

>>19299118
No they aren't you fucking idiot, those are Traditional doctrines believed by both Guenon and Evola.

>>19299107
I don't care, I like both Guenon and Evola. You're using Guenon to justify your cucked, counter-traditional egalitarian worldview. Just because Guenon was a superior Brahmin who became a Sufi, doesn't mean everybody should do it, in fact quite the opposite.

>>19299119
>have sex incel
As if it weren't already blatantly obvious you are just some faggot leftist using Guenon to justify your gay modern worldview.

>>19297131
>AND LEFT NO TRACES OF SAID EXISTENCE
Unironicly what are you talking about?

>Guenon was actually a pozzed sjw cuck like me because he assimilated to arab society!

>Evola was a fascist neonazis but Guenon was actually a liberal!

You leftists know that many Arabs are white, right?

Man, I try so hard to openly be racist every day, then these people like OP BTFO me in being much more racist without even trying

They unironicly think in pic related no matter how much they deny it

>>19299222
Met a girl from Iran who was dirty blonde and blue-eyed with tanned skin. So fucking based. I'm assuming upper class since she could afford to go to an expensive school in the West. I sang her "clashing of swords" in perfect arabic, needless to say she was very impressed.

So as a mixed race person do ethno spiritualist just consider me inherently disconnected from God and tradition or what?

>>19299257

> Iran. Arabic. Sings her a song.
She was not impressed. She was scared.

>>19299173
I don't march in lockstep with Guenon, much less Evola. Neither has a monopoly on what is highest.

>>19299190
> If you are not a Nazi you are an SJW!

Dualistic thinking is a cage

>>19299327
>if you believe in races being different you're a Nazi
le dualist thinking is le cage thinking

as if you were half as enlightened as Guenon, pbuh.

>>19299315
Well we made out later while drunk and she gave me a handy so I was doing something right. swag.

>>19299380
>drunk
>handy
this is haram

>>19299222
>The education the average American receives
Hahahahaha wtf

>>19299419
I'm a practitioner of the LHP.

>>19299448
doubt it, you are just a degenerate

this thread should be renamed into YLYL
imagine some bioleninist creature trying to "unpoliticize" Guenon to take him away from "those ebil /pol/tards" while blissfully and pavlovian mumbling modern McCultural™ ideals as supposed "counterargument" for it

>>19299601
I get laid a lot and then show them my book collection

>>19299380
No, you are bringing up something far more far-reaching than merely "differences between races".

>>19296790
>I am against any type of political or social ideologies
maximym onions

>>19297314
>claims evola is counterinitiation
>implies guenon isn't
good for a laugh, hope you don't have that as your sincere belief

>>19300701
Guenon wouldn't claim Evola is counter-initiation, just that he places Royal over Priestly initiation.