/lit/ - Literature

>>19290468
It's okay, you can say you are angry about Cuck's book.

>>19290468
>fuck anyone who is using him to promote another egalitarian project
ok, where. where the trannies

>>19290483
All those pomos, and cuck philosophy's new book, and other trannies sanitized him and turned into a tool kit to promote egalitarianism

>>19290476
Yes I am
He's another leftie portraying a false picture of nietzsche

>>19290468
>>19290486
>>19290494
>noo!! stop using nietzsche for your egalitarian project!!!! it's WRONG!!!!!
Cry more.

>>19290521
You literally can't reconcile nietzsche with the left
Read that book
People tried and it never worked out for a reason.

If you are desperate to ‘claim’ Nietzsche as either a rightist or a leftist you are low iq

>>19290544
His entire work is an attack of the left and everything it represents. That doesn't mean he's a nazi or your average conservative. His politics are nuanced but they fall on the right. That's why I called his politics aristocratic radicalism.
Retarded statements like what you just said is a result of pomos sanitizing and decontextualising his work.

>>19290559
His work is a critique of the entire basis of modern Western culture, especially its religious and moral (and therefore a hefty bulk of its conservative) aspects. It is better to speak in ‘thick’ descriptive terms like aristocratic than ‘thin’ ones like rightist, which are so broad and emotionally loaded they’re apt to lead to all sorts of unhelpful associations. Why are you so desperate for Nietzsche to be identified as part of one team and not another? Both teams are symptoms of the same sickness.

>>19290578
You can reconcile his work with the non-Christian right but you can't do that with the left. His critique of modern western culture is mostly about launching an attack on liberalism and socialism. To think Muh he was against everyone is retarded and useless. His views match with a lot of reactionaries of his time.

>another thread for people who haven't read N to debate people who didn't understand him about whether it is based and redpilled to agree with him or not

>>19290590
what is the 'non-christian right' and how is that any different to you just saying 'only the people on my side that I agree with can't be refuted by muh neetcha'.

The problem I noticed is that anyone who rebels against the master nowadays would be people on 4chan. As our master now is women, who have won by effectively charming and seducing the world into taking all the money. And have turned science and engineering into caste systems, status now means more than merit in any of the traditionally scientific disciplines.

So we are the slaves and morality is now owned by the might of women.

It's because modern left is reduced to just coming up with negative lodestars and it is unable to come up with any positive content for their egalitarian project
That's why they resort to nietzsche to mount an attack on neoliberalism and conservatives

>>19290590
You mustn’t forget that Nietzsche was an admirer of the Young Hegelians, of their subversive energy and dynamism if not so much the content of their beliefs. But consider, what kind of thing do you mean by liberalism and socialism? Liberalism and socialism are the only things the right and left in the modern Western world actually offer. There is no politics outside of liberalism and socialism. And when I think about the radical right in the 20th century who were influenced by Nietzsche they were all also in some way ‘socialist’: Spengler, Mussolini, Junger, etc. And it seems fitting to describe ’left socialists’ like Jack London, George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, and Andre Gide as Nietzschean.

>>19290610
>the master is x
>x is bad
>i am the good guy because i'm not x
>sadly i am a slave but i SHOULD be the master grrrr
Fucking kek another person who hasn't done the reading. Why do you come here?

>>19290468
race isn't an inherent component of nietzsche's thought, but it is a convenient framework to which it can be applied.

>>19290625
>race race race race race race
Americans should be banned from discussing anything

>>19290632
i like racecars go VROOOOM

>>19290622
No the opposite.. I didn’t mean that Nietzsche was wrong I meant that people claim he was supporting the individual despite his philosophy defending postmodern more critical texts if he existed and wrote for now.

I was saying by Nietzsches standards the leaders determine what’s good. Because good changes based on the time.

I’ve only read human all too human and yes I do think that people have made him out to be whatever fits into their ideology. But I was told about him by the wrong people, and I should have avoided those movies and groups of people because the first views I heard of him stuck with me.

>>19290639
Racecars are very Nietzschean. They have to do 500 laps of eternal return before they ascend.

>>19290619
>Liberalism and socialism are the only things the right and left in the modern Western world actually offer. There is no politics outside of liberalism and socialism.
Nah, there is a potential for politics outside of conceptual hallucinations of modern philosophy, and nietzsche shows that way. What bothered him was that modern liberal/socialist philosophy is a continuation of Christian philosophy and they always hide a possibility of egalitarianism or weak mentality. It's always a matter of how much of it is expressed.

>>19290643
You should read Beyond Good and Evil, and Genealogy of Morals if you want the full explanation of master/slave morality, but the important thing to remember is that if you are already complaining about who is the most powerful and defining everything they have the power do as "evil" while your lack of power somehow qualifies you as "good," it means you are a slave moralist and even if you were put in charge by means of a revolution or a struggle against your superiors, you would still behave like a slave and feel anxious to punish people for being stronger than you or smarter than you or wealthier than you etc because of your ressentiment.

>>19290665
I didn’t say they were evil though. I said they’re in charge and we have to do what they say.

>>19290611
Also, That's the side-effect of leftists obsessing over nietzsche. This will never allow them to build positive content of their egalitarian project. This is what I find funny about them.

rightist tarantula virgins resenting the academic BEASTS who dominate nietzsche scholarship

>>19290670
Don't be coy. You're complaining that "women" have monopolized wealth and used it to promote a status-based society that subordinates merit in science and engineering. Even if this were true, you're obviously not endorsing it and are clearly upset that someone else is exercising power, and trying to figure out a way to "argue" against that power being used.

>>19290683
They filter through anything and look for a compatible reading. It’s the same as burning the book or editing it because they disagree.

>>19290695
The Christian Neoplatonist tradition is alive and well!

>>19290693
Okay well if I can’t explain that I’m not resentful without it seeming fake.. then I will talk of how interpretations of Nietzsche by any political group won’t take into context that he is a critic. He’s criticising what happened when it happened. And I made the post to see if I’d misinterpreted what slave morality is.. as I’ve tried to read excerpts and not quite understood.

>>19290711
>if I can’t explain that I’m not resentful without it seeming fake
Defining who "the masters" are and then arguing that they are doing harm to you outs you as a slave moralist.

>pro slavery, pro eugenics
>believes you should always carry a whip when entering women quarters
>believes it's okay for millions to sacrifice for one exceptional man
>loves privilege and hierarchies
Why is he so edgy?

>>19290691
Academia is a scam to
There's a reason only leftists are allowed in it

>>19290721
So the master should be my individual spirit?

>>19290735
Meds

>>19290604
Alt right? I also can’t think of a non Christian icon for conservatives

Both left and right are guilty of interpreting anything they read through an ideological lense. Nietzsche was clearly not concerned with ideology, and wasn't particular antisemitic at all. He was critical to race theory, since what he meant with "the blood" was more in a spiritual sense. So the nazi shit does get debunked mostly.

However you are correct in saying the left misinterprets him the worst. They literally just read genealogy of morals and takeaway from it only "religion bad" and "everything is relative". Leftism is a mental illness

It’s amazing how any mention of Nietzsche and we talk about him and not his books. He is so muscular in his work that he’s the Superman of philosophy.

Nietzsche supported the supression of the Paris Commune. Saying he'd be a leftist makes no fucking sense.

>>19290619
Nietzsche and Stirner both suffer from socialists using their work to push their ideas when they were both highly critical and dismissive of it. Stirner calls communism a sham, an empty theory, and makes the same arguments Nietzsche makes about it being the movement of resentiful paupers who are opportunistically using the idealogy to gain politcail power at the expense of individual freedom.

>>19290835
>>19290841
I don't see how this aspect of Nietzsche is appealing from a radical right wing perspective. Things like the Paris Commune were fissures in the very bourgeois society he detested.

>>19290852
Its very appealing - Nietzche was extremely supportive of hierachical beliefs such as slavery, denounced democracy as a sham that was quickly being manipulated by socialists to gain progressive demands, and he had an affirnity for Roman culture - just as they do.
>Things like the Paris Commune
To Nietzsche, the cure was no better than the diease - socialism he said would create a society for "meanest, cruelest, and dumbest" - the essential Last man of this era because socialists only concerned with the low lifes - the people too weak to walk on their own. Nietzche only provides the tools to deconstruct it by rejecting the enligthement ideals of Rousseau, and the Socratic dialectic, for the might is right arguments of Callicles and Thrasymachus. The problem for Nietzsche, however, is Zarathustra doesn't win his struggle against modernity. Nietzsche is pessimistic about a life after the death of god - he doesn't expect the Ubermensch to become one with the Earth.

>>19290468
What's crazy is that Losurdo himself is a fanatical Stalinist.

>>19290693
It is true, and it is evil.

>>19290880
Its not that crazy. Stalinists hate Nietzsche, and they believe they can push people towards Stalinism by pointing out how fascist Nietzsche is, and his beliefs are connected to post-modernism, post-strucutralism - which is a threat to their heregemony.

Nietzsche states he believes there is no social combination, or ideal world, that will solve the crises of human existance. He only has some outlines - which are by in large anti-egalitarian (denouncing equal rights, denoucing use of the stat to enforce equality, defending slavery & imperialism). The man loves, and wants, a world of conflict that breeds higher men like Napleon and Caesar.

>>19290877
Can Nietzsche be described as unequivocally opposed to democracy as a phenomena or stage in civilisation? Democratic ideals, yes... but Nietzsche idealised demagogues like Pericles and Caesar and Napoleon more than the staid oligarchic classes... The great man uses the people as a kind of truncheon against the fat gentry, exalts the people. And it bears noting that Nietzsche wasn't so much anti-Enlightenment as post-Enlightenment. Consider his affinity for Voltaire and his self-professed interest in 'French scepticism'. He doesn't want to turn the clock back so much as turn it forward, or rather, reconstruct the clock entirely.

>>19290468
All the so called leftists are bunch of fucking retards for appropriating Nietzsche. He was clearly a thinker of right-wing or neo liberalism.

Let's see what Saint Nietzsche has to say about civilizational spirit and morals in "On the Genealogy of Morality"

>They return to the innocent conscience of the wild beast, as exultant monsters, who perhaps go away having committed a hideous succession of murder, arson, rape and torture, in a mood of bravado and spiritual equilibrium as though they had simply played a student’s prank, [...] At the centre of all these noble races [...] the beast must out again, must return to the wild. It was the noble races which left the concept of ‘barbarian’ in their traces wherever they went; even their highest culture betrays the fact that they were conscious of this and indeed proud of it

>The erotic relation of men to youths was the necessary and sole preparation, to a degree unattainable to our comprehension, of all manly education (pretty much as for a long time all higher education of women was only attainable through love and marriage). All idealism of the strength of the Greek nature threw itself into that relation, and it is probable that never since have young men been treated so attentively, so lovingly, so entirely with a view to their welfare (virtus) as in the fifth and sixth centuries B.C.
—Friedrich Nietzche, Human, All Too Human

>What does our chatter about the Greeks amount to! What do we understand of their art, the soul of which is passion for naked male beauty!
—Friedrich Nietzsche, Daybreak, Aphorism 170

>Even the boldest remained still before Holbein's self-portrait in the hall of drawings! And I now struggled futilely in Nietzsche's presence to define the magical attraction of that wonderful portrait. It did not help that I so-to-speak traced line after line of that face. This approach was powerless to describe the expression of fully developed manhood combined with the charm of fresh youth (Holbein's self-portrait, as is known, presents him without a beard). And I failed to capture even the individual traits in their full value. I faltered when I came to the mouth. I could see the lips before me. So fully rounded yet so energetically closed! Not avid, yet as if created for pleasure!
>"A mouth . . .," I stammered bewilderedly.
>"A mouth to kiss!"
>Disconcertedly I looked aside. Truly, it was Nietzsche who had spoken, in an attitude and a tone which seemed to contrast most strangely with the mildly sensual coloration of his words. For leaning far back in his armchair, his head bowed onto his chest and his arms hanging limply on the armrests, he seemed to have spoken out of a dream rather than as a comment on my report.
—Ludwig von Scheffler's recollection of Nietzsche

>>19290907
Nietzsche isn't against oligarchs - he believes only people who capable of using their own natural inclinations are worthy of wealth and sucess. He opposes wealth earned by people simply for the sake of their misery and pity for them. He's arguing against Plato that the Sophists ultimately were correct about human nature i.g. might makes right, sardonic wit, and fearless war-like individualism, domination are all the traits the higher man should strive towards. None of these arguments support leftism, socialism or any liberal project.

>>19290937
I.g. if you were playing Fallout New Vegas - Caesar's Legion or even Mr House would come the closest to Nietzche's ideal world. A world ran by efficient, expansive autocrats. NCR and Yes Man can be ruled out because one's a dedecant democracy, and the other is anarchist non-sense - a school of thought he hated just as much as socialism.

Losurdo also debunks Elizabeth manipulation theory
Apparently she toned down his anti-semitism

More so, to Nietzsche, the strength of one's arguments come from the battlefield. He ridicules Socrates - saying dialectics are men who are too weak to fight back.

>>19291003
schizo.

>>19290999
Mussolini & Nietzsche had similar views on the Jews. They didn't like them, but didn't hate them as much as Hitler.

>>19290835
>Hope is possible again! Our German mission isn’t over yet! I’m in better spirit than ever, for not yet everything has capitulated to Franco-Jewish levelling and ‘elegance’, and to the greedy instincts of Jetztzeit (‘nowtime’). There is still bravery, and it’s a German bravery that has something else to it than the élan of our lamentable neighbours. Over and above the war between nations, that international hydra which suddenly raised its fearsome heads has alarmed us by heralding quite different battles to come.
He's also anti-women empowerment and thought women empowerment will lead to other empowerments
>Continuation of Christianity by the French Revolution. Rousseau is the seducer: he again removes the chains of woman, who from then on is represented in an ever more interesting way, as suffering. Then the slaves and Mistress Beecher-Stowe. Then the poor and the workers. Then the vicious and the sick – all that is brought to the fore.
It's hilarious because leftists believe feminism is fundamental to all other empowerments

>>19291009
Nietzsche praises Jews repeatedly.
>>19291010
>He's also anti-women empowerment and thought women empowerment will lead to other empowerments
Yes but he also petitioned for his university to accept female students.

>>19290999
>nooo it's all her sister's fault. Nietzsche is a good boy.
Retarded leftists yeah

>>19291014
No, there's more context to that actually.
>"In the manner of Gobineau, Nietzsche then goes on to incorporate the struggle against socialism and the commune (the most primitive form of society) into a crude racially-based depiction of historical development: “Who can say whether modern democracy, even more modern anarchism and especially that inclination for the “commune”, for the most primitive form of society, which is now shared by all the socialists of Europe, does not signify in the main a tremendous counterattack —and that the conqueror and master race, the Aryan, is not succumbing physiologically, too?”"

>>19291014
>Yes but he also petitioned for his university to accept female students.
So what? He though there are rare females with aristocratic spirit and most females are dumb.

>>19291020
>Nietzsche continues: “These carriers of the most humiliating and vengeance-seeking instincts, the descendants of all European and non-European slavery, especially of the pre-Aryan people—they represent mankind's regression!” And finally Nietzsche concludes with a hymn of praise to the “blond Germanic beast”: “At heart in these predominant races we cannot mistake the bird of prey, the blond beast who lusts after booty and victory.... The deep, icy mistrust the German brings forth when he comes to power, even today, is an echo of the indelible outrage with which Europe looked on the rage of the blond Germanic beast for hundreds of years.”
>>19291014
See >>19291010 he literally denounces The Paris Commune as a Jewish scheme. He was doing what Mussolini did - praise Jews, but then actively say what he really felt when he had the chance. He also called for restrictions of Jewish immigration to Germany.

Most leftists rely on Kauffman or dueluzean or foucaultian interpretation of nietzsche which is pretty selective.

>>19290999
>Regarding the text of The Will to Power, there are no particularly relevant
differences between it and the Posthumous Fragments, and it is a waste of time hunting for instances of manipulation and distortion capable of compromising the work of the interpreter
>One can even ask whether the liberties Elisabeth took were any greater than those taken by today’s editors of Socrates and Tragedy: the paradox is that, in censoring the lecture’s Judeophobic conclusion (see below, Appendix 1, §1), they sail in the wake ofthe philosopher’s sister they so despise.
Leftist schizos btfo
He's right that it's actually them who distorted nietzsche more than his imouto ever did

>above 1000 pages

At least leftists never try to claim Nietzsche was a leftist. Meanwhile rightists constantly WE WUZ

>>19290880
No, he's a marxist.

>>19291075
They do in that they think if you try to be more nietzsche than nietzsche then you'll arrive at your leftist utopia. Their point is that nietzsche himself didn't realize the emancipatory potential of nietzsche.

Why are antisemites so obsessed with someone who thought they should all be shot? Are they cucks? Masochists?

>>19290880
He literally never said "Stalin didn't nothing". He just brought nuance to the discussion surrounding Stalin which always devolved to two positions: 1) muh Stalin is good and 2)muh Stalin is evil. And yet his critics still criticize him by engaging in these retarded reductive takes.

>>19291105
Why would I be shot? I am not an NPC.

>>19291112
No, we should have reductive takes of a degenerate like Stalin. He represents the lowest society can produce.

>>19291124
To understand him, to understand history, you shouldn't start with moral judgments or preconceptions only to find evidence to justify that. In the end he does paint Stalin as a retard so I don't understand his critics.
Even in the book OP mentioned he just soberly analyzes nietzsche without bringing in any moral babbage.

>>19291139
No, you absolutely should use moral judgements. They're useful to weed out worthless people and ideas. There's no need understand "Stalin" besides realizing his actions were only a net benefit to humanity when he died.

>>19291147
That's what online imageboards and other social media are for
Academics need to be nuanced and objective.

surprised no one's posted this yet

I mean have you tried bringing up nietszche or any western philosopher for that matter around your local lgbtsjwtfnpc marxist cattle? In no time you will see their beady stupid cowlike eyes light up in panic. Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating "wasnt he sexist? Arent you being dangerously eurocentric? Hasnt it been debunked as fake news russian bot pseudoscience?Why read books by dead white men when you could have been streaming the latest diverse and inclusive workplace comedies at netflix hulu and disneygo? Didnt you know reading antything beyond YA literature is ableist towards people who are too retarded to read? How does this further the short term electoral goals of the democratic party? Are you saying child sex workers arent real sex workers?Have you been taking your daily recomended dose of high fructuouse corn syrup your SSRIs and HRT? it is very important that you take the medication dr goldstein prescribed otherwise we will report you to corporate for mandatory sensitivity training as per the domestic terrorism act of 2021"

>>19291161
Literary never happens
All you need to do is look at youtube leftist sphere(they call it breadtube or some shit) and how they slobber all over nietzsche
Cuck philosophy literally wrote a book about how you can use nietzsche to realize your egalitarian efforts

>>19291157
No, you absolutely must use whatever rheocratical tool you have to assert your beliefs - piously fetishizing reason is no different than asserting objective morality. You care too much about optics over persuasiveness

>>19291124
Stalin is a superman

>>19291181
Well, not everything you write is an exercise to assert your moral beliefs.
If you're approaching a topic from a certain vantage point, like to prove that someone is evil, who is to say you won't distort evidence towards this end.
You should only assert the edifying power of your analytical lenses and methodology. You can reserve all that moralizing bullshit when you go to a clear view of what you're actually looking at.

>>19290538
>>19291161
>picrel
??
>>19290544
>>19290578
Based as fuck, and also important to clarify. Cheers for beating me to it anon.

So what does Nietzsche’s "utopia" looks like?

>>19291161
Who’s the third one?

>>19291250
https://sites.williams.edu/cthorne/articles/against-joy-or-deleuzes-empire/
>We can hail Deleuzian thought, in eulogy, as one of the great emancipatory projects of its generation and still want to explain our disappointment with its course. We know that Anti-Oedipus took 1968 as its prompt, because its authors tell as much; and we know that the most important sections of A Thousand Plateaus were first published in the lead-up to the Italian Movement of 1977 and the Bologna uprising, which huzzah’d Guattari as one of its teachers and heroes. We will need the intellectual historians and sociologists of knowledge to explain to us, then, how such books have ended up in the appreciative hands of the Israeli Defense Forces and the dot-com philosophers of the utopian-but-profitable Internet. It will not be enough to say that the Israeli military is “abusing” Deleuze by “taking his ideas out of context”—or that the paid poets of web and wire are “appropriating” schizoanalysis by putting it to non-Deleuzian ends. A theory that expects thought to be divvied up, composted, and recycled—a theory that, indeed, prefers thought when it is mobile, beyond itself, and out of context—confers no authority on those who would object to its repurposing. Anyone who says that Deleuze and Guattari need to be “reclaimed”—that they need to be retrieved and led back to their proper place—is defending his masters in terms they would not recognize. So we might instead frame our disappointment with Deleuze as a simple matter of theory and practice, and this in some classical sense: Deleuze and Guattari recommended rhizomes to us; we have tried them out at some length, typically in the form of “networks”; and we can say now upon reflection that they just aren’t working out, that they have never been as smooth as promised, never as horizontal in their growth. Networks continue to generate winners and losers. Our yams all have lumps. We might not have known in 1980 that a world of maximally deregulated flows—the Deleuzian pure economy uncontaminated by power—wasn’t much more than the left-wing path to neoliberalism, but there is no excuse for not knowing that now.

>>19291250
If you're using him for egalitarian emancipatory projects, you're still engaging in that weak mentality inherited from Christianity to liberal/socialist tradition and you misunderstood him.

>>19291284
>comes to 4chan to start larping as an 80s yuppie edgelord

>>19291291
>why are edgelords obsess over this edgelord philosopher, who unironically thinks you should always carry a whip when interacting with females
Who knows

>>19291310
Quiet roastie.

Men
-
Women
-
Children

>>19291263
>and we can say now upon reflection that they just aren’t working out, that they have never been as smooth as promised
No shit, with 4chan being closest to the deleuzian concept of rhizome.

>those deceitful concepts, the supporting concepts of morality – “soul”, “spirit”, “free will”, “God”’; they ran the risk of ‘the physiological ruin of humanity’, by affirming the inviolability even of the hopelessly malformed and thereby blocking the necessary process of selection
Based and redpilled

>>19291263
Is this just a large strawman?
D&G proposed rhizomes and flows as concepts that merely found their analysis - of course they can be applied elsewhere to examine and create structures. Power to them if anything.

t. that one anon thats looking for corrections

>>19290815
Read Foucault and maybe you’ll stop attacking only strawmen one day.

>>19291369
>read this dude who only selectively interprets nietzsche
???

>>19291376
You’re thinking of Deleuze

>>19291376
>They literally just read genealogy of morals and takeaway from it only "religion bad" and "everything is relative"
This is the part I was referring to.

>>19291369
Foucault is an idiot and he's not a leftist

>>19290578
Leftism and egalitarianism is an expression of Christian morals

Have you even read Nietzsche?

>>19291449
>egalitarianism is an expression of Christian morals
Marx agrees.
>Have you even read Nietzsche?
Have you even read Marx?

>>19291187
The irony of this statement is that Nietzsche said a someone like Stalin would refute socialism by creating a society based on its principle of decadence, and that it would kill so many people it would be self-refuting.

>>19291161
meds

>>19291457
>Marx agrees.
He does not, because his economic policies are for the promotion of equalization through economic planning and progressive taxation. Its just sophistry on the part of Marxist to hide the fact they are humanists obessed with the morality of lesser men - the pathetic and weak workers

>>19291457
Are you going to pull the ”Marx didn’t believe in equality, (but we marxists secretly do)”?

>>19291403
I was referring to leftists as the rule, not the exceptions.

>>19290653
This

>>19291465
>because his economic policies are for the promotion of equalization through economic planning and progressive taxation

>>19291465
>>19291466
>Nevertheless, the political annulment of private property not only fails to abolish private property but even presupposes it. The state abolishes, in its own way, distinctions of birth, social rank, education, occupation, when it declares that birth, social rank, education, occupation, are non-political distinctions, when it proclaims, without regard to these distinction, that every member of the nation is an equal participant in national sovereignty, when it treats all elements of the real life of the nation from the standpoint of the state. Nevertheless, the state allows private property, education, occupation, to act in their way – i.e., as private property, as education, as occupation, and to exert the influence of their special nature. Far from abolishing these real distinctions, the state only exists on the presupposition of their existence; it feels itself to be a political state and asserts its universality only in opposition to these elements of its being.
>But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only – for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.
Please do minimal research.

>>19291474
>The nationalisation of land will work a complete change in the relations between labour and capital, and finally, do away with the capitalist form of production, whether industrial or rural. Then class distinctions and privileges will disappear together with the economical basis upon which they rest. To live on other people's labour will become a thing of the past. There will be no longer any government or state power, distinct from society itself! Agriculture, mining, manufacture, in one word, all branches of production, will gradually be organised in the most adequate manner. National centralisation of the means of production will become the national basis of a society composed of associations of free and equal producers, carrying on the social business on a common and rational plan. Such is the humanitarian goal to which the great economic movement of the 19th century is tending.
>2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
He was very explicit in this - yes

>>19291465
Capitalism arbitrarily frustrates the ascendance of great men.

>>19291486
>The manifesto
Everyone take a shot.

>>19291003
Bro, Socrates fought, he was renowned for it.

>>19291485
This has been refuted, see >>19291485
You just posted non-seqituor qutes from the Critique of The Gotha Programme which is irrelevant because Marx is discussing what a communist society might look like. However, the policies he calls for makes it prety clear communism is form a primitive society in which the government gives rise to the last man.
>"and Marx and I never doubted that in the transition to the full communist economy we will have to use the cooperative system as an intermediate stage on a large scale. It must only be so organised that society, initially the state, retains the ownership of the means of production so that the private interests of the cooperative vis-a-vis society as a whole cannot establish themselves."
The man was a pathetic fool who was simply envious of wealth he could not get himself, on his own merits, and instead incited mobs of paupers to do his bidding save him for his wretched condition.
Nietzsche correctly predicted his policies, and they were somewhat adopted in America, would create a large enough middle class to fend off socialism, but accomplish its goals of making society a bunch of low life consumerist last men. Revolutionary governments, as he rightly pointed out, would show socialism would be nothing more than a murderous clown show - as it was.

>>19291457
Marx just buries his morals behind the reason, the kind of reason that is fine-tuned to implicitly promote democracy and egalitarianism and a sympathy for the weak.

>>19291502
>Nietzsche correctly predicted his policies, and they were somewhat adopted in America, would create a large enough middle class to fend off socialism, but accomplish its goals of making society a bunch of low life consumerist last men.
Incoherent. Otto von Bismarck implemented policies more socialist than anything America has ever had. Read 'The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism' to learn how the Protestant ethic necessary for sustaining capitalism is eroded by the decadent consumerism capitalism inevitably produces. The human type responsible for the successes of capitalism is itself selected against by capitalism.

>>19291502
You are dumb as hell. I don't have time for this so I'll just point out that one of my quotes is not from COTGP and that the "refutation" is quoting from the manifesto, one of the worst sources for Marxist theory in the absence of careful reading.

>>19291490
The first passage, you ignored, which is great because it shows how dishonest you are - you will play sophistry to argue Marx really did not mean what he said - however, they were literal economic demands he never abandoned. The argument that "Manifest doesn't count" is just dishonesty and evasiveness by Marxists who think people who are stupid enough believe them when the Boleshiviks, pretty muche very socialist government and party that exists todays has these demands. Socialists have a minimal and a maximumal programme - higher taxes are almost always a part of them.

His "nationalization land" again calls for that equalization of wealth by using state coercion. That was something Nietzche never supported because saw the state using its power to supply leech off of human's best to increase its degenerative power on society.

>>19291503
Correct - he never hid it.
>>19291511
The retort about Bismack literally doesn't even refute my point - it makes it stronger because Nietzche literally hated Bismarck's social reforms for degenerating society.
>>19291519
You're just a sophist, and you're making a special pleading argument that we must think Marx was simply joking when he made those political demands. Don't be a fucking retard - socialists make these demands all the time, and its clear what Marx's intentions were. For fucks sake, retard, Marx though a peaceful path towards socialism could be possible through social democracy using elections to tax the wealth away from the rich. Socialist parties pretty much make this their central idealogy. You simply can not deny reality because you don't want to acknowledge the clear stupidity of your beliefs. Nobody takes you fucking losers seriously anymore, and you seem to wonder why.

>>19291485
Just cause you acknowledge that "humans are not equal" doesn't mean your ideology doesn't treat every individual as entitled to certain privileges like no exploitation, no domination etc.

>>19291540
Is there any more banal use to put Nietzsche to than to defend liberal economics?

>>19291543
>criticizing marxist bullshit is defending liberal bullshit

>>19291519
Actually, I have to attack you again because you keep citing Marx's theocratical plans of socialism - ignoring the fact that abolition classes, the state in itself is not an egalitarian demand. You're just playing language games to act as if its not. You're an absolute fucking clown. You want to abolish class distinctions - Nietzsche does not - he wants genetics to make the case for them. Not the state, not the socialists, not your pathetic pity for weaklings and degenerates.

>>19291552
What policies do you prefer, exactly? What social system?

>>19291543
I never cited Nietzche to defend liberalism, you faggot. Nietzche makes the connection between liberals and socialists - dedecants who are obessed with democracy and the happiness of humans They don't want a world where people have to actually suffer to grow as a person - there's no self-affirming purpose for them. You just want to play the blame game, and not blame yourself for your ineptitude.

>>19291557
There should be a state that enforces a hiearchical social system that tests the merits of man solely based on his culture, his accomplishments, and his genetic health. The state should have no role in baby-sitting individuals, and should seek competition with friend and foes alike.

>>19291557
The roman empire under Aurelian

>>19291572
The vaguest thing I've ever heard. You have no notion of how to bring about a situation like this. Certainly capitalism doesn't value men for their culture or genetic health.

>>19291583
Its already happening with people Thiel making it possible. You're just too stupid to understand how the game is being played.

>>19291557
People with intellect and superior genes should be given slaves(who are retarded with inferior genes) that he can use as his property to achieve big things.

>>19291603
So, when will you be arriving at my residence?

>>19290632
It's coming for you soon enough my friendolino

>>19290931
What does Paglia have to say about Greek pederasty again?

>>19290468
This book is not incompatible with Klossowski's, so...

>>19291316
Umm, it's

Children
>
Lions
>
Camels

>In the first place, the term 'master', which is borrowed from hierarchical societies, merely expresses, in Nietzsche's thought, an attitude of refusal with regard to a society founded on work, money and surplus production. If Nietzsche had remained here, his protest would have been purely oneiric, no different from the similar reactions of a Baudelaire, a Poe, a Flaubert and many others - those 'decadents'. But Nietzsche did not pursue his prophetic combat as a dreamer in revolt against the existing order of our industrial societies. The point of departure for his projects is the fact that the modem economy depends on science, and cannot sustain itself apart from science; that it rests on the 'powers of money', corporations, and on their armies of engineers and workers, whether skilled or not; and that at the level of production, these powers cannot develop their own techniques except through forms of knowledge required by the manipulation of the objects they produce, and through the laws that govern the exchange and consumption of these products.

>Nietzsche's 'aristocratism' has nothing to do with a nostalgia for past hierarchies, nor, in order to realize this aristocratism, does he appeal to retrograde economic conditions. On the contrary, convinced that the economy has an irreversible hold over the affects - and that the affects are exploited totally for economic ends - Nietzsche constantly interprets socialist systems as pessimistic negations of life's strongest impulses, even though some fragments go so far as to suggest that a socialist society might have the advantage of accelerating the massive saturation of mediocre needs - a process that would be indispensable to the setting apart of an unassimilated group, this group being the 'higher' caste. Consequently, he believes in the ultimate failure of the socialist experiment, and even expresses a desire to see the attempt be made, certain that it will end in an immense waste of human lives. This indicates that Nietzsche did not believe that any regime could escape the process of de-assimilated forces that must ultimately turn against it.

>Nietzsche more or less describes the 'aristocracy of the future' in terms of a behaviour that is at once aggressive with regard to the so-called ends pursued by economic (Anglo-Saxon) optimism, and complicit with every phase of the process that would lead to a generalized (and hence planetary) levelling. Nietzsche expects a movement of resistance to come from the extreme perfection of the mechanism.

>Here again, it is clear that Nietzsche is not concerned with the fate of humanity (a pure abstraction, in Stirner's sense); that he envisions humanity as something more like a raw material, and this always from a strictly 'artistic' point of view; and that future generations are and will only ever be valuable because of their rare successes, which are always individual.

>>19290468
I mean have you tried bringing up nietszche or any western philosopher for that matter around your local lgbtsjwtfnpc marxist cattle? In no time you will see their beady stupid cowlike eyes light up in panic. Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating "wasnt he sexist? Arent you being dangerously eurocentric? Hasnt it been debunked as fake news russian bot pseudoscience?Why read books by dead white men when you could have been streaming the latest diverse and inclusive workplace comedies at netflix hulu and disneygo? Didnt you know reading antything beyond YA literature is ableist towards people who are too retarded to read? How does this further the short term electoral goals of the democratic party? Are you saying child sex workers arent real sex workers?Have you been taking your daily recomended dose of high fructuouse corn syrup, your SSRIs and HRT? it is very important that you take the medication dr goldstein prescribed otherwise we will report you to corporate for mandatory sensitivity training as per the domestic terrorism act of 2021"

>>19291171
I mean, these people's idea of 'revolution' amounts to demanding to be fed psychiatric medication and watch tv shows that 'represent their authentic identity' and have the psychiatrists and the professional managerial class protect them from their own bad thoughts. which would be fine, if they didnt think you should be forced to do the same, which makes them cross the line from mere objects of pity to outright enemies.


the last man has nothing left but 'identity' that is, consuming product and proudly getting fucked in the ass. (literally as well as metaphorically)

>>19291263
Virgin right nietszchean and marxist incels v Chad IDF rhizomatic
pansexual polycule

https://www.timesofisrael.com/graduate-of-elite-idf-unit-8200-breaks-barriers-with-her-free-love-commune/

>>19291600
Businessmen were looked down upon in pre-socratic Athens

>>19291557
Immediate policy is striking out against the levelling monoculture, through radical and uncompromising action.What is the left if not a mindless, bleating herd of consumer cattle ready to follow marching orders from psychiatrists, pharmaceuticals, the mass media, and the democratic party. I mean look at your average marxist tranny, a thing which cannot be considered as fully human, but as a subhuman vessel for corporate social engineering agendas, whose aim is to lower the biological level of human life, as to further government control and corporate profits and to lead up tothe normalization of pedophilia.this is bioleninism and these are biological enemies, the struggle against marxism is life's struggle against death. against those who would hold disease as preferable to health.

>Ye preachers of equality, the tyrant-frenzy of impotence crieth thus in you for 'equality': your most secret tyrant-longings disguise themselves in virtue-words
>Fretted conceit and suppressed envy, perhaps your fathers' conceit and envy, in you break forth as flame and frenzy of vengeance.
>What the father hath hid cometh out in the son; and oft have I found the father's revealed secret
>With these preachers of equality will I not be mixed up and confounded. For thus speaketh justice unto me: 'Men are not equal'
>That there is struggle and inequality even in beauty, and war for power, and intelligence: that doth he teach us in the plainest parable.

>>19292489
You're just a leftist shitting on the masses. The people who you think are 'marxoid trannies' are 9/10 times not even familiar with his work. Lichtenberg said a book is like a mirror. What you get out of it depends on the kind of person you are. You can read Kapital and use what you learn to create an 'egalitarian' society or an 'overman' society.

The fact of the matter is that the consoomer society you're ranting and raving about is actually the slave society, and the machine which sponsors the slave society is capital.

Equality is impossible for Nietzsche because it is a levelling metaphysical system that denies perspectivism and the ”uniqueness” of every perspective

>>19292530
The movement for the people's renewal can only begin with the wholesale purging of diseased elements. The machine relies on its rainbow priesthood to promote its putrid liturgy.

>>19290889
t. slave

>>19292530
Based. We need a Nietzschean anarcho-syndicalist society of pirate aristocrats.

>>19292547
The 'diseased elements' just respond positively to whatever the rest of the sheep is bleating.
>>19292545
If you change the primary ideology, the sheep will follow suit.

>>19292576
Did not mean to mention >>19292545

>>19292545
what do leftists want if not a world run as a total institution, where there is a myriad biopolitical identifiers but they all converge in the same ideology and the same conception of psychological normality?

>>19292530
but what are the marxoid trannies if not the ideal slaves?

>>19292615
The state gave them political rights and living with them is horrible.
The state also gave an alien people voting rights.

>>19290578
and what is the politcially correct LGBTSJWTFNPC left if not a snivelling priesthood preaching a putrid liturgy of slave morality and victimhood? I mean what have leftists and their corporate masters ever done if not replace christ on the cross with a pink haired obese faggot on a wheelchair? Except the queer wont grant me eternal life or even forgive me for the sins of my bigotted white ancestors. I m just saying it'd be pretty funny if we could get together two planks of wood and a bucketfull of nails and actually crucify that fucker for real.

>>19292511
source?

>>19290468
What’s more aristocratic than misreading an aristocrat as a populaire?

>>19290594
lol yup

Is Geneaology of Morals worth the read?

>>19292560
Wrong

>>19293080
Ofc. Why are you even asking. It's either that Gay Science if you want the rundown on Nietzche

>>19292511
>He cites On TARANTULAS
SO many good posts. On The New Idol is also a great critique of leftism too - lefties always want to use the state to set up a new dogma, a new idol of worship to create new slaves.

>>19292700
fuck you bigoted fascist