/lit/ - Literature

>>19246317
hes so based u cant handle it

Zizek is an orthodox communist, he thinks the government should own everything and tell people what to do and think. All leftists agree with this.

>>19246330
no, not at all actually u are just saying stuff that means nothing

>>19246338
not an argument, libtard

>>19246344
u cant handle how based zizek is

Zizek and Greta want the "goyim" to stand in breadlines every morning and only have electricity on Wednesdays. All leftists agree with this.

As a right winger this is actually a form of Communism I can be on board with. I don't want retarded low IQ workers to run the world.

>>19246362

>>19246362
Based and Schwab-pilled.

>>19246317
>Are the more or less "libertarian" (or at least non- authoritarian) leftists who consider him an important political theorists even understand what he is arguing for?
Yes, at least the ones I know are aware he's this way. It doesn't really matter because the value of his thought is other things like his critique of ideology.

>>19246362
this is real leftism, most other things deemed "left wing" are just liberals

>>19246375
Then explain how denouncing worker control of the means of production as a leftist goal is "real leftism". Was Marx a liberal?

>>19246375
i certainly think it is truly "real" leftism but i disagree that "most other things are just liberals

its "real" leftism because its is literally leftism transmuted into real life action. the marxists and anarchists and such who dream of a stateless classless society where the workers own the means of productions are leftist theorists, but the stalinists and maoists and leninists and authoritarians are the literal "real" leftists, they are what happens when the theory exists the vacuum of thought and collides with material reality, they are praxis.

unfortunately most leftists are brain dead retards who dont understand that not everything that exists abstractly in the form of ideas can transmute 1:1 into material reality

>>19246317
We already live in the society that he's talking about. Most people don't even have to be active politically, and can live a decent life.

>>19246419
*exits the vacuum

>>19246375
Based and Fitzhugh-pilled

>>19246419
you sound like a leftypoler

>>19246419
Imagine thinking "real leftism" is better because it results in "real action" like the holodomor and the great leap forward. Fake leftism is better because it doesn't challenge an already great system, and can be commodified as entertainment.

Communism is when the government takes care of things and people can live comfortable lives. Singapore is a communist country.

>>19246393
not talking about marx, Im talking about a lot of people who identify as leftists are just liberals, and how a lot of rightoids call things left wing like the news when they really are just liberal

>>19246432
>already great system
ur funny

>>19246451
What's so funny about an obvious fact? People are living longer, working less, have a higher consumption per capita than any time in human history by being much safer. By all empirical measures - people are doing better than they have anytime in human history. You'd have to be melodramatic retard to think otherwise.

>>19246429
im not even a leftist
>>19246432
I didn't say anything about it being "better" im just saying, thats how it is, thats reality, and it doesn't "result" in action, it IS action. there is no waving a magic wand and suddenly the workers utopia springs into reality just like that, you have to get from point A to B to C, you have to remove those in power, you have to have power to alter the very fabric of society etc etc. it Is LITERALLY "real" leftism, leftist theory turned to real tangible actions. im not telling you this is "good" or "bad" im telling you this is simply how it is, the reality of leftist ideology

>>19246317
So, he's a bugman with limited interests, who doesn't trust himself to have control over his own life, and he's extrapolated it to mean that everyone is like that?

About expected from a leftard.

>>19246432
The Great Leap Forward was a tragic mistake driven by idealism in disregard of material reality. Mao's comrades-turned-enemies within the party pointed this out, e.g. Liu Shaoqi, Peng Dehuai, these were the true communists in the party (i.e. capitalists) but they were persecuted and killed by Mao's libtard faction.

>>19246465
yes instead of getting killed by disease or whatever they're killing themselves with drug abuse, gluttony, intentional suicide to cope with the gaping spiritual void in their lives. not a leftist or advocating for leftism but i cant ignore such a silly argument

>>19246470
>The Great Leap Forward was a tragic mistake driven by idealism in disregard of material reality.
Communism was a tragic mistaken driven by idealism with a disregard of material reality.

>>19246465
people are the most unhappy they ever have been, people commit suicide at a rate that is so astronomically absurd

>>19246485
Finally you’re abandoning the IIeme red international for the real proletarian praxis. Football beer and riots.

>>19246485
Exactly, that's because Communism is Liberalism. True leftists like Tony Blair greatly improved the material realities of the Proletariat by expanding the Welfare State and liberating huge numbers of people from wage slavery.

>>19246482
>People are living longer, and have more time to freely do the things they want instead of starving to death on a commune in rural Mongolia
Yeah, it would better if being died in their 20s in Pol Pot's killing fields and Stalin's gulags. You're totally making such a strong argument here.

Can anybody point to an example of an exceedingly efficient, wholly centralised bureaucracy that achieves anything like what Z-Man is talking about? Closest thing that comes to mind is China but they still managed to introduce the odd famine and genocide here and there, to an extent that it rather undermines the point. Plus it's hard to argue that a randomly chosen Chinese citizen has a better quality of life than a randomly chosen western one.
The myth of centralised efficacy is the foundational mythology of gommunism in the same way the rising tide lifts all boats thing is for modern capitalism.

>>19246469
u sound like ur projecting

>>19246498
like i said im not a leftist or advocating for leftism, i just disagree with your argument

>>19246492
China has a higher suicide rate than the United States though. And "happiness" is such a vague metric that changes all the time, so, its rather pointless to even take such a view seriously. Nobody is happy or sad all the time.

>>19246498
pol pot was propped up by the cia and admitted he did not understand marx

>>19246317
if you're paraphrasing his "what happens when things go back to normal" schtick you're missing the point. the whole idea is that a revolutionary period leads to radical change but the real test is when society goes back on autopilot

>>19246500
is china really close to that? arent most Chinese working in destitute sweat shops?

>>19246502
You did not provide a counter-argument; you're not being logical at all. You literally think you can just hand-wave facts such as people living longer, being more wealthier, and working less hours is something you can just ignore because its an inconvenient fact for you. You literlaly can not make any arguments based on facts, but melodramatic non-sense. It's largely why nobody takes your political positions seriously.

>>19246506
Pol Pot's biggest trade partner was China. Therefore China is also CIA. CIA means bad btw.

>>19246470
>these were the true communists in the party (i.e. capitalists) but they were persecuted and killed by Mao's libtard faction.
What the absolute fuck am I reading

>>19246506
It didn't take long to reveal that leftypol trannies are shilling this thread. Pol Pot got the majority of his funding from China and was supporting by Mao Zedong - he used them to invade Vietnam. Go back, tranny

>>19246505
no american has a higher sucide rate

>>19246508
I think if you watch the video you will agree with my presentation of his views.

>>19246519
haha coping so hard

>>19246516
not an argument

>>19246317
Who gives a shit what this fart-huffing pseud thinks. His fanbase consists of antifag trannies and mentally ill bulldyke landwhales

>>19246528
>>19246521
>>19246502
See how easier it was to reveal these people? They just can't contain their autism - they literally have to force the narrative that communism is a workers' paradise, and they really think just coming here all the time and sneaking it in will work. You guys are basically Tom from Tom and Jerry, you just fail every time.

>>19246535
cope

>>19246519
>It didn't take long to reveal that leftypol trannies are shilling this thread
My thoughts exactly. Imagine some hambeast or noodle-armed antifa cuck making these threads

>>19246317
Basato
It's a mix of nostalgia for the soviets, a critique towards the so called new left and a some actual truth. He actually would like a society that functions without much input from the average joe, as in it doesn't have a crisis every 10-20 years for random reasons.
That is not actually incompatible with orthodox marxism, it doesn't need active political participation of the whole society. It might seem like a huge contradiction in his ideas but it works with his whole fixation of hegel.

>>19246500
Communism has no mythology (except the whole holy revolutionaries clusterfuck), only analysis of the material conditions. Also right now China is not communist, socialist or anything like that, they're going for that whole developed country thing following an interpretation of marxism.

Also fuck leftists on the internet, they're either muh lgbt and nothing else or tankies, both types blindly following capitalist notions.

>>19246514
i literally just layed out a few facts in response to your bugman tirade about how wonderful things are right now. believe it or not, there is more to life than living to 80 instead of 60 and having "high consumption" and the masses seem to agree since people are destroying their lives with addictions and dependencies and outright intentional suicide rates and insane degrees right now, human relationships are starting to break down, rates of intimacy are plummeting etc

once again im not a commie, but you would have to be some stereotypical consoomer living through marvel movies, videogames, and camwhores or something to be blind to the fact that things arent exactly sunshine and roses right now

>>19246539
with you being physically and intellectually inferior...makes no sense, learn what words mean commie incel.

>>19246482
Apparently personal responsibility isn't thing. People being irresponsible with their life has little do with the sucesses of capitalism.

>>19246549
if u read more about communism u would be one

>>19246536
for christ sake dude i literally came to this thread to shit on commies, dont drag me into this

>>19246516
This is Orthodox Marxist historiography. No historian at Tsinghua University would disagree with my summation. The Red Guards and the Gang of Four were libtards and SJWs. Current Chinese government is Communist (i.e. Capitalist). Communism is when the ruling class (i.e. The People) owns everything. Capitalism is the method thru which this is achieved.

>>19246554
seethe rolflmao

>>19246557
sorry but no. im not some retarded /pol/tard conservative who thinks communism is when healthcare. i know about all there is to know, i even have this guy accusing me of being a commie lmao

>>19246549
No, you just had a mental breakdown because I rejected your melodramatic non-sense. What people do with their personal freedoms has nothing do with the fact capitalism resulted in the productivity that has made life easier for greatest amount of people. You're just an idiot, and are you are a commie, you're literally spamming the thread now
>>19246521
>>19246502
>>19246492
You're not even fooling anyone you samefagging leftypol tranny. Go back.

>>19246549
How low is your IQ to think anything left wing would solve these problems? Kek you fucking absolute retard, it is global bankers and freemasons and israel.

>>19246556
the way people act are not detached from there environment

>>19246557
HAHAHAHAHA

>>19246566
everyone points and laughs at u because ur stupid

>>19246549
>There is more to life
No, there really isn't. You're just moralizing like a melodramatic retard because you're off your meds. Life is pretty simple. You just live, eat, drink and die. Everything you say is just idealistic non-sense for people who think they are smarter than they really are - you are an ant. You are not an intellectual or a person of high status. Your ego is a bit too big your patheticness in life.

>>19246352
you didn't give an argument either,elaborate on your point and make an actul argument worth engaging on

>>19246573
Oops meant for>>19246562

>>19246566
hey man, i fully agree, you arent going to get any argument from me, if anything leftism helps enable the problems i layed out.

>>19246572
not trying to diss u or call u stupid, i was just trying to say that u get a lot of the points of leftism against capitalism

>>19246567
You don't get to blame the environment when they are concious of what you're doing. People who abuse drugs, are fat, and commit suicide are concious of the choice they're making - so they are responsible for it. Don't blame capitalism because you don't want to accept the fact you have adult responsibilities.

>>19246582
what forms the way people act and think? their environment u dumbass, u think people just wake up one day and want to ruin their lives and life unhappy

>>19246501
Another leftie spotted.

>>19246574
>>19246565
theres no need to samefag. i cant tell if you are a /pol/ tourist or a /leftypol/ false flagger

>hat people do with their personal freedoms has nothing do with the fact capitalism resulted in the productivity that has made life easier for greatest amount of people

and "increased production" and decadence does not equate to quality of life in a 1:1 ratio or better no matter what. theres a reason so many retired old people outright choose to get jobs sometimes just for something to do

>>19246564
Retards believe communism is when there is a stateless society, or when the workers own the means of production, when reality shows communism is just a scheme to enslave people to a higher authority with wishes of free things.

>>19246579
The answer is the traditionalism, which is what virtually all functioning societies had before this modern clusterfuck. The fact that megacorps and global government groups are so against this while they promote leftism makes this more obvious.

>>19246588
Its ultimately genetics, and you're just moralizing without making an argument. Even if we accept the environmental argument; you'd be refuting yourself because all the empirical evidence shows people are doing better than they were in any time in human history.

>>19246595
i wont argue much against that. personally ive certainly dabbled with the idea that leftism was never sincere to begin with and was nothing more than an idea to subvert a given nation by useing a population against itself to enact a regime change

>>19246591
Imagine putting production in quotes. Do you really think having 2 apples is less than having one? Are you that stupid? Machines, technology in general, has liberated man from subsistence farming, and you want man to return to that for some ridiculous reason for some moral supersitution like "decadence" - how pathetic are you leftypol trannies? And you are samefagging because you type the same. Anyone can see it. Stop pretending, faggot.

>>19246548
>Basato...He actually would like a society that functions without much input from the average joe, as in it doesn't have a crisis every 10-20 years for random reasons.
#1.It's the Current Ruling Class who insist on importing non-whites. Living among non-whites is MATERIALLY the worst thing a person can experience. One experiences a drastic decrease in living standards when they have to see and deal with them daily. In a referendum Average Joe would vote to kick them all out.
#2. It's the Ruling Class who insist on decreasing living standards by pushing nonsense responses to nonsense crises like global warming, COVID and racism.
Fact: The Ruling Class are leftist, and like all leftists they HATE to see people comfortable (THEY'RE CONSOOOOMING IN THE SUBURBS), rather they'd prefer to see them in breadlines and stuffed into multikulti high rises.
Galaxy Brained Philosopher Zizek and anon think this is Basato because they're dumb bootlickers.

>>19246599
megacorps are just trying commodify revolutionary ideas and fervor but that proves that there still is a real there that remains of this yearning to be free from capital, liberalism is just that commidfication of left wing ideas without any of the change, communism is both a return to form and a move forward to something new

>>19246599
Yup, it's a complete failure and the best part is that contemporary leftist circles push even more on the failed fronts. All their battles are coopted by capitalism and the only useful points they had are now pushed by the right in some countries. It's a shame how in 20-30 years they went from anti-global, anti-capital, anti-imperial to hey let's do nothing at all.

>>19246621
You do realize you have more in commong with a random african nigger than with any capitalist?
Calling global warming a nonsense crisis is the actual galaxy brain take here, you can already see the effects right now and they're getting worse and worse.

>>19246621
the suburbs are a hellscape, everyone is still poor just behind closed doors, everyone is miserable, Everyone I know from the suburbs is miserable, it a fantasy land to allow you to chase something that never existed and consume ur self to death

>>19246621
Muh suburban paradise, the american dream

>>19246623
u should read capitalist realism, i think you would like it, it has lots of great takes on this phenomenon

>>19246622
Communism is a plebian delusion, used by global financial interests to subvert pre-existing power structures. It will never work, and let me make this absolutely clear: you are a mentally handicapped weakling who deserves to be a slave if you fall for it.

>>19246623
They whine all day about muh CIA infiltration but lack the intelligence or introspection to see how they're being used. I mean even an inbred redneck meth-head would think twice if all of his "revolutionary" ideas were publicly supported by every billionaire and big tech firm....

Traditionalism is idiotic - you'd be sacrificing human progress for the feelings of a even more pathetic minority. Life would be so uninteresting if we had to follow the same ways for all eternity. Life needs a force of unending change, and conflict, to make it worth while. Traditionalism isn't the answer - technological advancement is. More so, I don't understand the retarded talking point from leftoids, and rightoids, that corporations are inherently bad and should not be trusted. They do more for the world than any of you fucking losers. Bezos, Musk employ millions of people, create product that change lives - and we're suppose to believe corporations are the problem and not idiots like you who have no baring on reality?

>>19246633
It's part of the problem, it is THE book for those who do nothing but keyboard activism

>>19246626
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>19246640
You have to be 18 to post here

>>19246641
it is simply a diagnosis for the problems we face, from the way we've seen movements fail we can make movements that work

>>19246317
He seems like a conservative socialist

>>19246639
Actual commies realize it and are outside of the """leftist""" mass, critical of the phenomenon and all. They're also powerless, have no structure and no people

>>19246648
Wanna know how I know your IQ is <100 and you're not white?

>>19246591
The concept of "decadence" doesn't exist. Its your resentiment of the fact you lack ability to shape men into following your will. People who complain about "decadence" are those just displaying their weakness, their inability to persuade others to follow them or their ideas. Its nice scapegoat to blame problems on instead of realizing your problems are self created and are of your own fault. You just do the same thing lefties do, but you use the word "decadance" & "jews" instead of "fascism" and "CIA."

You really cannot refute the fact that all leftists quite literally look like subhumans. The far left and the far right are both losers, but at least the far right are actual men who stand for something other than preschool-tier things like "fairness". I mean it is scientifically proven at this point that radical leftists are lower IQ, fatter and uglier, far more likely to be mentally ill and abuse kids (why is it that every other antifa member miraculously facing charges has a history of abusing children??)

>>19246640
Your son will be a tranny and you will cope

>>19246647
Then you should leave, leftypol tranny

>>19246574
>you are an ant
that's real rich coming from the bugman who thinks production rates of cheap Chinese goods are the pinnacle of human life, and virtues and personal fulfillment, and community etc. are meaningless

anyway im pretty sure you are a false flagger of some sort, i at least want to believe that.

>>19246655
ur stupid as fuck communism is not about fairness , it is not about one class standing up to another but a revolution against the class system itself

>>19246651
Ya man, I'm sure all the antifa idiots are secretly super based and redpilled when they aren't out assaulting christian prayer groups and being let out of jail for it by Open Society Foundation-funded AGs HAHAHAHA

>>19246659
u can always tell whose loosing an argument because they will stay strawmanning and arguing in bad faith

>>19246660
Do you know about the phenomenon repeatedly occurring throughout history called "the revolt of the plebs," you fucking halfwit?

>>19246659
> production rates of cheap Chinese goods are the pinnacle of human life, and virtues and personal fulfillment
This is unironically true, and you say this while even benefit and use Chinese products so you have no reason to talk. You're being a woketard here. I'm being a realist. I don't have time for the kid like you do, and most people do not either.
>virtues and personal fulfillment, and community
You can do both, but leave it to a melodramatic retard, like yourself, who completely disregards personal responsibility can only think in false dichotomies. You're clearly a fucking loser who spends way too much time on social media and not making resourceful relationships. Nobody who is a normal human being whines, and cries, as much as you do over such simple facts of life.

>>19246659
Pretty obviously a falseflagging antifa faggot probably posting with a buttplug inserted

>>19246665
Kill yourself.

>>19246662
Look outside of murrica, I know it might be hard but try

>>19246674
no argument just coping its pathetic

>>19246660
Communism just the dictatorship of the stupidest, meanest and cruelest. Its nothing more and nothing else.

>>19246654
>The concept of "decadence" doesn't exist.
im pretty sure its a matter of both material science AND most forms of spirituality that pleasurable stimulation has diminishing returns when you immerse yourself in it and this often has further effects behaviour. after this you seem to be just projecting or armchair psychologist-ing so im not gonna finish reading

>>19246675
I'm not in the US, what is your point, idiot?

>>19246678
communism is the dictator ship of the bad? seriously? that is the most stupid thing I have ever heard

>>19246671
>You can do both
yea sure if you want your kids to be trannies who spend their time playing videogames and on social media. you clearly live in a fucking bubble

>>19246679
You're trying so hard to validate yourself using a plebian understanding of Nietzsche when you're just a scrawny cracker who got took the short bus to school and got pushed into lockers by chads.

>>19246676
Why would argue with a mentally retarded person?

>>19246362
Do you know anything about Communism? It's always low IQ pricks in charge, ex-factory workers or bakers with no expertise in anything.

>>19246681
Never said that, my point is to look at commies outside of US, so not "antifa" or anything like that.
Stop being retarded basically

>>19246688
if u are unable to debate someone u deem retarded what does that make u

>>19246685
Why are you talking about kids when you'll never have them? They would grow up to be trannys because a beta male like you would be too busy om social media larping as a traditionalist when you're just a clown who can't put down his phone

>>19246687
>plebian
>muh Nietzsche
>scrawny cracker
>incel terminology

youre all over the place, man

Zizek was always a fascist pos

>>19246698
cope liberal

>>19246393
Workers can't even put down the bottle of vodka, how do you expect them to control the means of production?

>20 posters
>118 posts
Its just the same, samefagging leftypol retard crying about corporations and capitalism, schizo-francially changing between saying like a /pol/tard to being a leftypol tard. You faggots do this all the time on /his/ too. Its embrassing. You'll never live to see communism

>>19246682
He's talking about in practice, you drooling retard. Communism/marxism is the only ideology so shitty it can't even begin to be put in practice, always resulting is millions of deaths. Put your helmet on before your next sperg-out, you've lost enough braincells as it is. You should be kept in a barn with horseblinders over your eyes and a muzzle on, dumb cow. Take all the booster shots btw, bill gates is right ro want you euthanized.

>>19246582
>people succeed
>it's obviously the cause of "capitalism"
>people fail
>yeah well it's their own fault duh not my fault they are losers!
You are a hypocrite and more left leaning than any of the commies living rent free in your head.

>>19246694
wait... shouldn't you be PRO clowns who can't put down their phones? youre getting you LARP all mixed up my dude

>>19246705
i'd rather try to be a free man than live the rest of my life as a slave

>>19246690
Yes, antifa and by extension commies exist in my country and i see them everywhere else too. I also look at history. You are unironically too stupid for this board, stop posting, idiot.

>>19246691
Considerate.

>>19246698
This.

>>19246690
Antifa is originally German you dumb fuck, O have no idea why mutts started using this shitty label anyway.

>>19246714
You will always be a slave, due to the innate inferiority of your character. If there was a revolution you would be even more "oppressed" than before

>>19246705
these people really need to get their story straight, its like talking to two different people within one post

>>19246689
>ex-factory workers or bakers
>no expertise in anything

>>19246709
Actually, I already addressed that silly argument here >>19246608 you can't even make that argument without refuting your first argument of things being bad. They aren't tied to any economic system. According to your argument; capitalism is bad simply because people trip, and fall, to their deaths because they don't pay attention to where they step. Its ridiculous - not everything is dependent on the environment.

>>19246719
Ya, they were funded by the same group of people who set up soros; that is, jews.

>>19246725
go back collecting ur funko pops buddy

it feels a lot like someone intentionally derailed this thread, possibly because we were shitting on libertarian commies

>>19246708
>Put your helmet on before your next sperg-out, you've lost enough braincells as it is. You should be kept in a barn with horseblinders over your eyes and a muzzle on, dumb cow. Take all the booster shots btw, bill gates is right ro want you euthanized
Jeez anon, he had a family.

>>19246492
”Happyness” is a slimy left wing fantasy

>>19246710
You admit you're non-traditionalist degenerate as own against me? How does that work - you're admiting even you know beliefs are stupid, and you don't even follow them; which is largely people stop having them to. All the people, like yourself, who screech about traditional values are usually furries, or alcoholics that rape their children - you simply project your insecurities onto other people

>>19246737
Happiness is for women and children

>>19246738
> brings up furries and rape
>say the other is projecting
>is clearly projecting
too funny

>>19246317
Do you actually understand Yugoslavian humour, or are you a septic?

>>19246738
how am i admitting ANY of that? what are you talkign about? im asking how you go from proclaiming that bugman consoomerism is gods gift to earth to accusing me of of being a consoomerist bugman

in short, you cant get your story straight, mr. spammer and thread derailed

>>19246738
holy projection

He's heckin' right. People want to do their own thing not spend their time micromanaging their nation. People even get mad because of jury duty.

>>19246746
Imagine being so fucking retarded you know even realize when someone is calling you out for being a hypocrite. You need to back to leftypol. The way you retards try to sneak in communism by trying to fit in here is just so pathetic. You really don't have any original opinions and you aren't a strong critical thinker.

>>19246732
This thread is leftypol bait. Its the same faggots from /his/ doing the same thing. Put a lefty thread, shill communism by making using the culture war language of the rightoids. You already revealed yourself here
>>19246506
You even type the same way with your redditor spacing - go back nigger

>>19246754
im like 99% sure youre the one who is the /leftypol/ tranny here and everything you just said is projection considering i literally entered this thread to shit on commies and you just spammed the thread with a hundred posts to derail that effort

>>19246317
Herr Mod, Delete this thread

>>19246746
You're the same retard who defends "traditionalism" while using an anime profile picture. You really think people should take a loser like you seriously? You don't even have kids, nigger. What do you do to promote traditionalism besides larp on the internet? I make it clear I'm a normal person who loves to eat and grill. You're out here talking about "dedadcance" like some psued when clearly you're a faggot with no life.

>>19246765
the thread stays

>>19246764
Tranny, you literally defended pol pot. Like why even pretend you're not from there? You are the commie

If you've not read and understood Stalin and Tito in context you can't really grasp Zizek's orientation towards actually existing socialism. It is half joke, three quarters serious, and 7/8ths father fetish.

>>19246762
well they really need to work on their technique, it feels really uncanny valley tier.

>>19246772
i literally didn't though... i came into this thread to point out that commies are fucking retarded and the pol pots and maos and the nightmare they create are the real face of communism and all the theory and everything else is just lies to sell it. youre either a /leftypol/ spammer or you are seriously fucked

meh, Evola and other Traditionalist ideas are much better. The conservative revolution prior to the nazis was best in relatively recent times. everything post ww2 was pretty much capitalist shit or worse, marxism/communism/socialism, which is the revolt of the plebs par excellence. and no, scandinavia are not at all socialist. they have a very free market delivering to them, it is just publicly funded. it is more free-market than the US. leftists are such delusional children, i had a few friends in early high school who were into the antifa shit, mostly because they thought punk music was cool and the corporations were evil. the last i saw of them they were all pretty right wing/libertarian and supported trump. if you're seriously a leftist past college you have issues you need to sort out with your life before you get into politics.

>>19246732
>libertarian commies
good one, next you'll be telling my slavoj zizek is a respected philosopher with good meaningful ideas we should try to employ, while in reality he is a hack with nothing profound whatsoever to say. at least jordan peterson had meaning in his ideas, even if they were only entry-level redpills for boomers.

>>19246773
shut up

>>19246767
cry more pussy

i like how leftcucks derail their own threads by calling people trannies when they get BTFO

>>19246317
>a leftist past college you have issues you need to sort out with your life before you get into politics.
project
>>19246317
>while in reality he is a hack with nothing profound whatsoever to say. at least jordan peterson had meaning in his ideas
hilarious

why do rightwingers always MOG leftcucks? master vs slave morality?

>>19246773
>read the ramblings of insane dictators so you can understand some coked up lunatic
No thanks

>>19246510
That's what I'm saying. It makes for an incompelling case.

>>19246548
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that those 'analysis of material conditions' which lead to the notion of ever more centralisation is a sort of mythos; it's a different kind from the dramatic, epic sort of earlier civilizations but it is rather a more 'intellectualised', modern mythos. Similar to liberal capitalism. Agreed on fuck net gommies, however.

>>19246804
>commie is a redditor newfag who can't even reply properly
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BTFO!

>>19246804
Holy shit youre fucking dumb LMFAO

>>19246810
Leftist are the Niezschean Übermensch, libertines with no regards for social or moral conventions who force their will on the world.
Righties are just wagecucks and proud of it too.

>>19246821
exactly

>>19246804
Kill yourself retarded newfag

>>19246821
Right wingers were more about aristocratic values pre-ww2

>>19246767
lol youre like a toddler, are you going to tire out if i give you one more (you) just to let you continue kicking and screaming and straw manning?

>>19246831
Leftists are dumb babies who need their safespace playpen

Their daddy mark zuckerberg isnt here to censor the bad words and now they poop their diapies

>>19246738
this is either a really good false flag or you should just up and go kill yourself

>>19246830
Aristocratic values are exactly those of disregarding humanity for your benefit and doing whatecer you please to do in your pursuit of power, Antifa leftists are much closer to this ideal than any larping right winger.

>>19246841
seriously, ive seen the shitposting on /his/ but i dont think ive ever seen a display of this magnitude

why are /pol/tards always so angry, do they hate themselves

>>19246848
Not at all, you have a child's understanding of these things. Antifa leftists go around beating old ladies holding american flags and attacking people in wheelchairs or destroying random people's lives because they hosted an event, how is that at all aristocratic? I don't even expect you to respond, because it is totally obvious you don't know the first thing about aristocratic values, because you're a little turd who deserves to work the rest of "her" pathetic "life" at burger king, you're a 3rd world donkey, aren't you?

Jesus what the fuck happened in here boys?

>>19246858
Go back.

>>19246869
not him but do you really think aristocrats are above stomping out opposition?

>>19246857
It is probably antifa, they do the same thing on /tv/. Just bully them as soon as they stop showing interest in discussion. Post pictures of their faggot faces and point out how weak and pathetic they are.

>>19246500
Feudal society except the bureaucracy is replaced by Aristocracy.

>>19246879
ur afraid of antifa like how a child is afraid of a monster in closet

>>19246876
>not him but
But you have another mental retard take to offer me. I'm not even going to respond to such a fucking stupid question, how can you use this board when you are so stupid? why don't you go learn what aristocratic values actually are, you dumb animal?

>>19246885
they certainly arent above killing people just because they are old or in wheelchairs

>>19246884
I'm just pointing out the fact that they infiltrate 4chan all the time. These losers are afraid of a bunch of supposedly virgin teens with no friends taking power somehow. Meanwhile they allow megacorps and big government to centralize more and more power, with these last two often openly colluding together, like what happens in actual fascism. Pretty obvious what their purpose is. They are the definition of controlled opposition.

>>19246897
Depends on the person. But no matter what they certainly wouldn't surround them in the streets for no reason, hiding their faces, and attack with weapons, while the other person is unawares and in a wheelchair with no weapon. You fucking dumb little fag.

>>19246884
very scary xD

>>19246903
of course they wouldn't, they would throw around a bit of coin and have others do it for them.

>>19246632
If this is a safe, clean and friendly community then this is absolute paradise compared to how most people live, even most Americans.

>>19246909
If they weren't upholding aristocratic values they might do that, otherwise no. Again, you don't know anything about this, I don't know why you're so eager to run your mouth on things you know nothing about, probably another unfortunate result of your status as a low IQ subhuman mongrel who should have been aborted by its whore mother. On another topic, are you non-white?

>>19246317
Unironically how do I get this drip?

Leaving the thread, keep bullying and dominating the antifa cucks, it is your duty. I salute you.

>>19246898
antifa is a spook, they dont exist,

>>19246932
>oy vey i've been found out
Post your tree-trunk legs you fucking fat antifa hog

>>19246932
Yuropoor here, they most certainly exist. It's been hilarious to see them suddenly spring up in American conversation the last few years.

>>19246932
Do you people actually feel really clever when you say "antifa isnt a thing! its an idea!" as if no one will ever perceive that is clearly a decentralized thing consisting in small cells and isn't "not real" just because there isnt a conventional structure or conventional organization?

>>19246317
he is just a socdem globalist and has always been, just read his takes on global warming, Greta, or Covid, or the financial crisis, all of his takes could have come out of Bill Gates just as well

>>19246945
i dont feel clever, it just seems like a spook in order to amass power and have an enemy on the left for right wing politicians

>>19246936
Wtf?? stop fatshaming f-type bodies you fucking fascist shitstick

>>19246957
>i dont feel clever
Well that's good, because you're an imbecile.

>>19246962
no argument

>>19246957
Do you have a mental disability? Type in "antifa" and search google, you fucking idiot.

>>19246965
do u know what a spook is

>>19246964
Well done, I suppose in your special ed class they would give you a cookie for that.

>>19246972
i dont what sped classes are like but it seems u sure do

>>19246976
>>19246970
>>19246964
https://www.birthinjuryhelpcenter.org/down-syndrome.html

Show this to your parents.

>>19246995
no u do

>>19246317
>Are the more or less "libertarian" (or at least non- authoritarian) leftists who consider him an important political theorists even understand what he is arguing for?

Well to be honest no I doubt it
Zizek is a man who has come to terms with the nature of people and acts wholly on that position
This does not describe leftists

>>19246932
lol not after my boy Kyle is through with them

>>19246317
We already knew that Zizek was a communist and not an anarchist. What's the point of this thread?

>>19246317
fuck off anarkiddy

>>19246317
>being a Marxist
he has never want to be so? he is much more of hegelian with freudian-lacanian methodology

>>19246689
>low IQ pricks in charge, ex-factory workers or bakers
I dare you to find one communist leader who didn’t come from the bourgeoisie class.
>Engels
>Lenin
>Stalin
>Mao
>Pot
>Castro
>Xi
All are from bourgeoise families, with the exception of Stalin who’s family fell into poverty in his youth (still was born into a financially successful) family.

Communism is free time and nothing else.

>>19246317
>what he wants is to read books and watch music and doesn't want to bother being an active citizen.
Literally me.

>>19248193
how does one watch music???

>>19246884
rofl

>>19248204
with your eyes

>>19247928
wow a child who stole a gun to protect a random car dealership shooting unarmed protesters is so based!

>>19248830
>unarmed

>>19246344
not an argument, libtard

>>19248830
yes very based desu. praxis!

>>19246393
workers are retards this is for their own good

why should i care about the means of production instead of just eliminating abject poverty

the problem with our shithole world to me seems not that proles aren't emancipated bosses of their own destiny, but that people have million dollar mansions while others die from easily preventable diseases and starvation in the streets. capitalism wouldn't suck nearly as bad if you were at least ensured not to be homeless, we have the technology. i don't get why commies have this optimistic view of the working man as if a society run by workers is feasible or even desirable. explain this to me leftoids

t. very simple man

>>19248830
Even if that was actually what happened it would still be based buddy

>>19250517
Ever taken charity? What is given can be withheld. That's why the means of production matters.

>>19250517
because private property in the means of production is what produces and sustains poverty

>If in this society everything that one needs to live — food, housing, means of production — is property, and one can access the objects of need only if one is willing and able to pay the price demanded by the seller, then the conclusion that this society is not concerned with supplying its members with what they need is correct. The gigantic wealth that is produced is not produced in order to satisfy the needs of the members of society, but only for the purpose of using the ability to pay that exists in the society in order to transform manufactured goods into money....
>In a free-market economy, wealth is not distributed badly or unfairly; it is not distributed at all. Only by purchasing can one access real material wealth, the objects of need. And the money necessary for it is also not distributed, but must be earned. How the individual earns money is left up to him, within the framework of laws set by the market and the state....
>What is considered prosperity for a wage laborer — a car, a dishwasher, a microwave or whatever else is used to illustrate this alleged prosperity — is not evidence of luxuries in the employee’s budget, but in truth serves as absolutely necessary means for an economically– and time-limited life as a flexible, available-at-any-time cog of capitalistic business.... The ever-present shortage of money in proletarian households is shown by the wide-spread art of budgeting, although wage laborers pride themselves on this as a high virtue instead of being critical about the permanent necessity of making additional efforts to provide for their private lives after work....
>Wages always mean a shortage of money for the wage laborer because for the employer wages are always a cost to be reduced....
>In capitalism, increases in productivity are not in order cut down on toil. Rather, productivity increases serve only to save on paid work for the entrepreneurs. Companies invest, lay people off, and have the reduced number of workers manufacture just as many products, or more, as the bigger staff did before.... Profit making – and not too little of it – is the reason for poverty; and yesterday’s growth – and not too little of it – is the reason for today’s unemployment. Unemployment, as it were, is the perverse reward the system gives workers for always increasing the productivity of their work. The enormous number of superfluous workers, the extent of their poverty, is almost an indicator of the productivity reached by work, the human source of material wealth....
>Poverty does not exist despite but because of the state’s activities. Only the state’s protection of private property guarantees the crucial basis for capitalistic production, hence poverty – exclusion from the existing wealth.
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/poverty.htm

how is a communist society supposed to fight off a well-armed and well-led army

>>19246623
It's even worse than that, in Australia antifa is rioting in SUPPORT of government lockdowns

>>19253899
That’d be the trots mate.

>>19253026
Just take capitalist backing for your communist moving you idiot, its not that hard.

>>19253976
Seriously?

>>19248131
>>Engels
Bourgeois family, industrialist, true.
>Ilya Nikolayevich Ulyanov was from a family of serfs; his ethnic origins remain unclear, with suggestions being made that he was of Russian, Chuvash, Mordvin, or Kalmyk ancestry.[2] Despite this lower-class background, Ilya had risen to middle-class status, studying physics and mathematics at Kazan Imperial University before teaching at the Penza Institute for the Nobility.[3] Ilya married Maria Alexandrovna Blank in mid-1863.[4] Well educated, she was the daughter of a wealthy German–Swedish Lutheran mother, and according to some sources a Russian Jewish father who had converted to Christianity and worked as a physician
>Stalin
>He was their only child to survive past infancy
>Besarion was a shoemaker who was employed in a workshop owned by another man; it was initially a financial success but later fell into decline, and the family found itself living in poverty.[13] Besarion became an alcoholic[14] and drunkenly beat his wife and son. Ekaterine and Stalin left the home by 1883 and began a wandering life, moving through nine different rented rooms over the next decade.[16] In 1886, they moved into the house of a family friend, Father Christopher Charkviani.[17] Ekaterine worked as a house cleaner and launderer and was determined to send her son to school.
>His father, Mao Yichang, was a formerly impoverished peasant who had become one of the wealthiest farmers in Shaoshan.
>Pol Pot
>His family was of mixed Chinese and ethnic Khmer heritage, but did not speak Chinese and lived as though they were fully Khmer.[4] His father Loth, who later took the name Saloth Phem, was a prosperous farmer who owned nine hectares of rice land and several draft cattle.[7] Loth's house was one of the largest in the village and at transplanting and harvest time he hired poorer neighbors to carry out much of the agricultural labour.[6] Sâr's mother, Sok Nem, was locally respected as a pious Buddhist.[8] Sâr was the eighth of nine children (two girls and seven boys),[8] three of whom died young.
>Castro was born out of wedlock at his father's farm on 13 August 1926.[2] His father, Ángel Castro y Argiz, a veteran of the Spanish–American War,[3] was a migrant to Cuba from Galicia, in the northwest of Spain.[4] He had become financially successful by growing sugar cane at Las Manacas farm in Birán, Oriente Province.[5] After the collapse of his first marriage he took his household servant, Lina Ruz González – of Canarian ancestry – as his mistress and later second wife; together they had seven children, among them Fidel.[6] At age six, Castro was sent to live with his teacher in Santiago de Cuba,
>[...]the second son of Xi Zhongxun and his wife Qi Xin. After the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949 by Mao Zedong, Xi's father held a series of posts, including Party propaganda chief, vice-premier, and Vice Chairperson of the National People's Congress.

>>19248131
>>19254055
tldr
Engels, rich family, full bourgeois
Lenin, poor but educated father who became middle class, wealthy mother
Stalin, stereotypical alcoholic father, lived as a fucking hobo as a kid
Mao father, "richest farmer in Shaoshan" (WHOA...)
Pol Pot, similar to Mao
Castro, illegitimate son of a rich man (not exactly a "bourgeois origin" - Remember the son Tolstoj had with a peasant woman? He worked as carriage-driver for the Tolstojs, as an adult)
Xi, party elite

I wouldn't call all of them "bourgeois", desu. But of course you're free to have your opinion

>>19253899
>eheh
>I made a strawman
>very smart

>>19254071
Probably want to read Poulantzas on how classes work practically rather than using a strict “he himself directs capital that he formally owns and subsists off profit” sense.

None of the above subsisted by selling potential labour power for a wage. Guess they’re déclassé petits bourgeois then eh cunt isn’t that better?

>>19254082

>>19253026
if there's a communist society then armies no longer exist so there's nothing to fight off. if you're asking about the proletarian dictatorship, then the answer is: with a well-armed and a well-led army, of course.

>>19254092
I don't care about a random pic on the internet
>>19254091
So the kulaks were bourgeois after all, not just "rich farmers"?

Leftists are so fucking retarded

>>19254119
true, just like other libs and the non-lib right-wingers. communists are the only sane people left

>>19254092
Seems kinda nationalist desu senpai.

>>19254092
i just saw a union in california that donated 1.75 million to gavin newsom's campaign against the recall election will be getting a vax exemption, lmao

>>19246317
>Zizek argues that ideas like the ownership of the means of production and self-government by the people aren't a desirable goal because what he wants is to read books and watch music and doesn't want to bother being an active citizen.
Too bad comrade, it's labor in the coal mines and living in a kommunalka for you.

>>19254130
ethnonationalism for thee, not for me

>>19246317
>goal because what he wants is to read books and watch music and doesn't want to bother being an active citizen
This is what Marxists want. OG Marxism was "let machines do stuff so we have to do the bare minimum of work" and Modern Marxism is just "let robots do everything". It was never about glorification of work.

The antibureaucratic left was always a fucking meme no one should take seriously.

Based. Central planning is the economic goal for all of humanity. The soviet experiment was better than what Marx desired. We should strive to establish a mixed economy and move towards an absolute centrally planned economy as technology progresses and makes it more feasible.

>>19254427
Side question
Can a society evolve beyond a basic point with no bureacracies? Writing was literally invented by bureacrats.

束帶發狂欲大叫,
簿書何急來相仍。

I am about to scream madly in the office,
Especially when they bring more papers to pile higher on my desk.

—from "Early Autumn, Miserable Heat, Papers Piling Up" (Hung translation). (summer of 758)

>Du Fu (Wade–Giles: Tu Fu; Chinese: 杜甫; 712–770) was a Chinese poet and politician of the Tang dynasty.

>>19254505
>束帶發狂欲大叫,
>簿書何急來相仍。

Could this be given in "literal" translation, just the radical root meanings of each character? So we could see how much distance there is between the English reconstruction of the Chinese meaning, and the minimal Chinese expression of it?

>>19254935
>Could this be given in "literal" translation, just the radical root meanings of each character?
I don't know chinese so I can't help you there

>>19246317
Do you realize you posted a 2 hour video? I am not watching that, I have a lot of drinking and wanking to do

>>19255193
>drinking on Tuesdays
G*D I wish that was me
Today I refrained from buying stalinskaya

You want Communism?

Names of Camp Cemeteries

In the language of the prisoners, camp cemeteries were called:

1. ‘The Embrace of Communism.’
2. 'Into the bright future of Sovdepiya (the Soviet world).’
3. 'The dead-end of Socialism.’
4. 'The slag-heap of human material.’
5. 'The Zek sanatorium.’

The farewell phrase said to a Gulag prisoner dying of constant hunger, excessive work, illness, or killed by other prisoners was: 'Joyfully he arrived at Communism, the bright dawn of humanity!’

— Danzig Baldaev, Drawings from the Gulag

More Communism...

>>19256614
WHOA...

>>19246497
>communism is liberalism.
>but my democratic politician which exists in the neo liberal framework is actually for the people.

At this point I have more respect for the stalinists than those who want to further the agenda of an elite mercantile class consolodating more and more financial power.

>>19256738
source: ministry of truth

>>19246360
Sounds like Texas kind of recently.

>>19253000
>because private property in the means of production is what produces and sustains poverty
No, poverty is the result of the genetic differences that create differences in one's capabilities to earn wealth. Private property is a means for a laborer to end poverty because it generates wealth. That entire paragraph is non-sense - you are not owed food, housing, or anything else simply because you exist. You are only owed what you are capable of requiring through your own wit or strength. Private property exists because of scarcity, and the fact that humans are naturally egotistic and want to be rewarded for what they own.

>>19256971
>I have more respect for Stalinists who kill millions than technocrats who's policies benefit millions
It just sounds like you're retard

>>19256738
To get a better view of the history, it would help if we knew how many people were imprisoned in Tsarist gulags versus Communist Party gulags. I only mention this because a 60% death rate of 10,000 prisoners is not as destructive as 20% of 100,000 prisoners- 6,000 dead versus 20,000 dead. Both are still bad.

>>19246830
>aristocratic values
I just love it when some buck broken wage slave starts idolising his slavers.

>>19258143
>if MORE people get incarcerated in a DEATH CAMP with little to no food, shitty housing, impossible working conditions, the death rate will actually go DOWN!
Do you really?

>>19253026
They're not that's kind of the point
Communist society is not meant to be warlike which is obviously one of the really really important ways it's been screwed up each time it's been tried

>>19253000
>>19257144

Is private property not effectively public property? It ensures that most people benefit from a certain amount of implicitly distributed utility, the alleged goal of public property, that this distribution is changeable, the alleged goal of public property, that the need for its polar opposite, public property, is implicitly abolished, few if any people preferring public or pseudo-public spaces (the wilderness, parks, stairwells, etc.), the alleged goal of public property. Public property simply meaning centralization of private property.

>>19258393
Пycть oн вcпoмнит дeвyшкy пpocтyю,
Пycть ycлышит, кaк oнa пoeт,
Пycть oн зeмлю бepeжeт poднyю,
A любoвь Кaтюшa cбepeжeт.

Let him remember an ordinary girl,
And hear how she sings,
Let him preserve the Motherland,
Same as Katyusha preserves their love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuAfMAvlLv4

Pic: Katyushenka

>>19258495
>It ensures that most people benefit
???

>>19258534

Most Western people own property, directly or indirectly.

>>19258559
>The median net worth for all Americans is $121,760.
>The average sales price of a new home in 2020 was 389,400 U.S. dollars and in 2021, it reached 408,800 U.S. dollars.

>>19258594

Renting is a form of ownership.

>>19258613
Yeah, just one where you don't actually own anything.

>>19258850

On the contrary, I would say that renting approaches pure ownership, at the detriment of the material house, whereas ownership approaches pure material, at the detriment of effective ownership. The only thing that the owner effectively owns that the renter does not is more disadvantages, being tied down to a particular house amounts to the house owning the owner.

>>19259092
The renter does not own any capital in that case, he cant invest or grow his wealth with the equity.

>>19258343
Seethe all you want, but I stand by what I said. The info-graphic should include the numbers of prisoners in each system, until then, it's a shitty picture.

>>19246497
>True leftists like Tony Blair
this is bait kek

>>19246548
>Also right now China is not communist
dialectical materislistlet

>>19260751
>The info-graphic should include the numbers of prisoners in each system
I tried, but I can't help you.

>>19262011
You're right, let's just speculate instead of providing useful info on the topic.

>>19262077
>if MORE people get incarcerated in a DEATH CAMP with little to no food, shitty housing, impossible working conditions, the death rate will actually go DOWN!


In "La strada del Davai", (Nuto Revelli), italian alpines who were deployed in Operation Barbarossa detail how Soviets treated them.

Pattoglio Michelangelo, p 303

>At meal time the friendly nurses ask me if I want soup but I always refuse it. I want milk, I ask for milk, I dream of milk.
>One nurse from the lower floor, a night nurse who barely knew me, comes with her daily milk ration, her family ration, her husband's and son's ration. Every night, for 8 nights she brings me one liter of milk.

This is how Soviets treated Italian POWs. Cope.

>>19262175
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm saying. It does not matter to me whether the Soviets or the Tsarists were actually worse. My whole point was that the info-graphic could be improved by adding total number of prisoners in each system because death rates on their own don't always mean everything. So you can stop with the straw-manning now. I will be saving your pic though.

>>19246317
who gives a shit about him and why do i see him online all the time lately. i swear i didnt know who this fucker was a year ago and now he's all over my yt and tiktok feed. i've never searched for him or anything like that

>>19246439
singapore will also work you to death and force what you will buy and do or not on you. in that sense, it "does take care of things"

>>19262213
>I will be saving your pic though.
:)
>My whole point was that the info-graphic could be improved by adding total number of prisoners in each system because death rates on their own don't always mean everything.
I'm a big fan of actual data. And now please spend some time reflecting on it.

Imagine a Katorga, such as the one Dostoevsky endured. You can read "Memories from the House of the Dead" about it. He briefly mentions the cockroaches in the soup, and how you stop caring after some time. He also passingly mentions how one day they unlocked his manacles (implying he wore them for months, previously). These were all "internal enemies". If you can, check Tolstoy's letters about molokony and dukhobory (people deported for their religious thoughts - molokonys drank milk when it was not allowed - Lev wrote "Resurrection", a semi autobiographical novel, to raise money for them)

Gulags were different: they had many German POWs (you can clearly see it in the graphic), Hungarians, Romanians, Italians, etc. Let me quote Bosio Giovanni, p. 229

>Good people, the Russians: many of us, during the retreat, were helped by the population. It was the Russian peasants who showed us the way to safety.
>We should never forget that we Italians went to their land to wage war...

Bagnis Eugenio p 472
>In my heart a good memory of Russian people, who have been generous with us, who often forgot how we came in their land

>>19262347
Very interesting stuff, anon. Here is a jewess in return for yours.

>>19260751
That tankie is just fucking with you. You can google that shitty infographic. Its fake and used all the time.

>>19262421
Thanks for the heads up. I figured that may be the case.

>>19256738
>>19258143
>>19258343
>>19260751
>>19262011
You should know this graph is absolute bullshit. We can't calculate the mortality rate without the number of prisoners, and the stupid tankie won't give you that data because it doesn't exist and that graph is bullshit. Again, literally google that graph. They spam it all the time. Commies always fucking lie and misrepresent data.

>>19262421
>i-its fak!
not an argument
>>19262402
>i-its a jewess!
not an argument

I think I know her, though. Isn't she that Tel Aviv anorexic Russian slut? Remind me her name

>>19262440
Milana Vayntrub

>>19262440
Its bullshit and its been debunked
>"The Gulag numbers for the 1930s and 1940s look relatively accurate, insofar as they reflect the official rates as described in Vishnevsky's Demographic Modernization of Russia, 1900-200, with the relevant section available as a pdf here, and the statistics on page 432."

>"Now, the tsarist information seems to be coming indirectly from Stephen Wheatcroft's "The Crisis of the Late Tsarist Penal System", which discusses the Russian katorga penal colony system (gulags as such didn't exist in tsarist Russia). I say indirectly because I notice that the citation is actually word-for-word from a paper by Mikhail Nakonechnyi, "The Forgotten Success of Penal Transportation Reform in Late Imperial Russia", which is available here. I would specifically direct attention to his graph of Wheatcroft's figures here, in particular the "crude prison death rate, all categories", because this seems to be where the tsarist figures are coming from."

>"However, the graph in the OP lists the tsarist death rate as a percentage, with a spike of over 50% around 1891. However, Wheatcroft's figures seem to actually be per thousand, with 50 per 1000 as the death rate in 1891 (or actually 5%)."
You post the same shit all the time. Nobody falls for this non-sense.

>>19254071
lenin was practically hautebourgeois, and stalin was arguably petty bourgeois
mao and pol pot were from prosperous peasant families and very well-educated, with pol pot even studying in paris
idk about castro but he was most likely bourgeois

>>19262437
>i-its the commies!
>Good G*D, it feels nice to be AMERICAN!


The US incarceration rate peaked in 2008 when about 1,000 in 100,000 U.S. adults were behind bars. That's 760 inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents of all ages.[27][25] This incarceration rate was similar to the average incarceration levels in the Soviet Union during the existence of the infamous Gulag system, when the Soviet Union's population reached 168 million, and 1.2 to 1.5 million people were in the Gulag prison camps and colonies (i.e. about 714 to 892 imprisoned per 100,000 USSR residents, according to numbers from ((((((((Anne Applebaum)))))))))))) and ((((((((((((((((((Steven Rosefielde))))))))))))))).[37][38] Some of the latter Soviet Union's yearly incarceration rates from 1934 to 1953, however, likely were the world's historically highest for a modern age country.[39] In The ((((((((((((((New Yorker article))))))))))))))))) The Caging of America (2012), ((((((((((((((((Adam Gopnik)))))))))))))) writes: "Over all, there are now more people under 'correctional supervision' in America—more than six million—than were in the Gulag under Stalin at its height."[40]

>>19262449
>Milana Vayntrub
It wasn't the one I had in mind. Not important anyway

>>19262453
>Wheatcroft uses data to make USSR look good
???

Anyway, even if we accept the above mentioned quote, when you filter out WWII, gulags have a mortality rate of 5%, so what's the argument here?

>>19246317
based

>>19262487
What's it like being illiterate? Wheatcroft's data says the Tsar's prison system had a morality rate of 5%, you dumbass. The USSR did not exist in 1891. Read it again, stupid.

>>19262471
>Niggers being put in jail because of drugs is the same as people being put in jail because they spoke out against their government and then were killed in the millions for it
Love the false equivalence.

>>19262497
>i-its illiterate!

Don't worry, I've crunched these data many times. If the gulags had the same mortality rate of katorgas, then THE REDS!!! were not so cannibals as you thought, after all, especially if they had to feed many more people.

>Wheatcroft's data says the Tsar's prison system had a morality rate of 5%
Yeah, that's what I already said. See>>19262487
> when you filter out WWII, gulags have a mortality rate of 5%, so what's the argument here?

>i-illiteatrate!!
>cannot use thingers to count dem numbers

>>19262517

>>19262568
What happens when he faces the wall?

>>19262543
No, retard, you said gulags. The Tsar's prison system wasn't the gulags. We don't know what the mortality rate is in Stalin's gulags because the Soviets forged the numbers. So, again, retard, nobody is falling for this non-sense.
>>19262568
KYS

>>19262517
>i-its de niggers drug!

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf

52) The majority of the prisoners, ***95% of whom are former criminals***, is Russian [...]


Let me guess... CIA is communist propaganda.

>>19262581
>KYS

>>19262581
>t-the Soviets forged the numbers!

> However, Soviet era sources are disputed by historians in the West, who estimate 3.0 million German POWs were taken by the USSR and up to 1.0 million died in Soviet captivity.[4]

that's 30%, according to Western sources

---

>It is estimated that at least 3.3 million Soviet POWs died in Nazi custody, out of 5.7 million. This figure represents a total of 57% of all Soviet POWs and it may be contrasted with 8,300 out of 231,000 British and U.S. prisoners, or 3.6%. About 5% of the Soviet prisoners who died were Jews.[6] The most deaths took place between June 1941 and January 1942, when the Germans killed an estimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs primarily through deliberate starvation,[7] exposure, and summary execution. A million at most had been released, most of whom were so-called 'volunteers' (Hilfswillige) for (often compulsory) auxiliary service in the Wehrmacht, 500,000 had fled or were liberated, the remaining 3.3 million had perished as POWs.[3]

Western sources

>i-its da soviets!

If you understand Italian, check Primo Levi interview about the differences between lagers and gulags.

>>19262591
>Using literal glowies as a source unironically

>>19262619
>t-the soviets are bad! red sources are not good! We good!
>n-no, do n't use our sources! we bad!

WHOA...amazing rhetoric...

>>19262616
>Gish gallop with irrelevant non-sense you are frantically cope-ing and pasting from wikipedia

>>19262633
>no argument, no data, not even an attempt to read the numbers
Fantastic

>>19262619
>>19262633
>>19262581
>>19262568
No argument

BANG!

>>19246317
>zizek isnt even close to being a marxist
>describes how he is a marxist

Marxism was totalitarian from the start. There is no "corruption" that is just how Communism is

>>19246330
All stalinists agree. Thats what this anon means by orthodox communists.

>>19246317
>apparently zizek isn't even close of a marxist cultist
FTFY. How dare he to think with his own ideas

>>19246317
>another marxist turned out to be a fascist
Nothing new

>>19264583
But that's how most marxists think? Why do you think ussr turned out to be a centralized authoritarian shithole?

>>19246317
Corporations love this guy.

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/344272227