/lit/ - Literature

Shirley, this will be an insightful and productive /lit/ thread.

>>19221018
Man, I wish the elite were based enough where they sent all the blacks and non-Whites into the prison system to use them for constitutionally permissive slavery.

Tards just flat-out deny it, call you part of a PC conspiracy, or insist that it's all justified because of a divine

Tards just flat-out deny it, call you part of a PC conspiracy, or insist that it's all justified because of a divine plan confirmed by the data©

>>19221033
>>19221058
Have you read the book?

Im all for not imprisoning blacks or having police in their neighborhoods

2005 oldfag here I have been reading books all my life and this one is just... wow...
I cannot recomend it highly enough only thing that might be better is "Call of the crocodile" by F. Gardner.

>>19221018
What is the central thesis of the book, summed up in a short but concise paragraph?

Her own husband, a federal prosecutor, said she was wrong.

>>19221110
The war on drugs is racist because black people are arrested the most. It is also discrimination because ex-cons have trouble getting jobs and cannot vote in some states.

>>19221104
If I were King of America, one thing I would do is make large areas with no laws for blacks to live in. This would solve systematic racism because they could just act out and kill each other without facing any penalty from The Man.

>>19221110
the naked truth

>>19221118
Where?

>>19221018
Don’t break the law?

>>19221155
Would you say the same to Jesus?

>>19221155
why not?

She's correct but not in the way she imagines.

Subjecting African people to the laws and cultural mores of European societies is cruel and inhuman, much like subjecting European people to the laws and cultural mores of East Asian societies. Their nature is simply incompatible with that cultural framework.

Imagine putting a timber wolf in a petting zoo and whapping it with a truncheon every time it bites a child. You should know better. We should all know better.

Ik ook.

>>19221110
These stark racial disparities cannot be explained by rates of drug crime. Studies show that
people of all colors use and sell illegal drugs at remarkably similar rates. If there are
significant differences in the surveys to be found, they frequently suggest that whites,
particularly white youth, are more likely to engage in drug crime than people of color. That is
not what one would guess, however, when entering our nation’s prisons and jails, which are
overflowing with black and brown drug offenders. In some states, black men have been
admitted to prison on drug charges at rates twenty to fifty times greater than those of white
men. And in major cities wracked by the drug war, as many as 80 percent of young African
American men now have criminal records and are thus subject to legalized discrimination for the
rest of their lives. These young men are part of a growing undercaste, permanently locked up
and locked out of mainstream society.

>>19221394
blacks are dumber when it comes to drugs; they are more conspicuous with their use and sale. and my anecdotal (i know, i know) experience is completely confounded by those studies that say that whites commit more drug crimes, imo massive issues with data collection there. plus i don't have great faith in the predispositions of the people who devote their lives to this type of research. they are more activists than neutral researchers.

>>19221394
So what you are saying isn't that black people are all criminals.
Its that all Americans are criminals and that black ones are just bad at it.
Interesting stuff.

>>19221033
Threads like these should be pruned. It would be the morally correct thing to do.

>>19221394
I mean I wouldnt be surprised if theyre jailed longer but does it account for first time and repeat offenders?

>>19221018
I wish they had some real struggles to contend with, every time I see another manufactured bestseller compiling excuses and post-hoc rationalisations for their constant subhuman behaviour, I want to [REDACTED]

>>19221467
Low IQ and poor genetic health is a struggle. Why can’t they just allow gene editing?

>>19221394
ok if the system is racist then why arent asians and hispanics also targeted by evil whities?

truth is blacks get arrested more for drugs because they are involved in other crimes. Assult someone and have drugs on you? more likely to get a drug charge than some white stoner watching koth in his basment.

>>19221018
"The New Jim Crow" suggests a more comprehensive treatment of the topic than just incarceration and its consequences. When I see a title like that, I expect it to go into voter suppression and issues like housing and education.

>>19221594
yeah, law is too restrictive t b h

>>19221394
White kids committing "drug crime" are harmless high schoolers smoking weed in their friend's shed and giggling at cartoons. Black kids committing "drug crime" are getting high on crack and robbing stores, robbing and stabbing each other over drugs, hopping the train, raping, driving under the influence while filming it on Facebook Live, and generally do not know how to refrain from loudly hooting while committing all of these offences in public.

>>19221467
>waaah subhumans
Dilate.

>>19221624
>>19221519
Proof? Why don't they focus on the more serious charges?

>>19221624
The book mentions Bill clinton watching the execution of Ricky Ray Rector as an example of racism.

>>19221634
To the contrary, in 1992, presidential candidate Bill Clinton vowed that he would never permit
any Republican to be perceived as tougher on crime than he. True to his word, just weeks
before the critical New Hampshire primary, Clinton chose to fly home to Arkansas to oversee
the execution of Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally impaired black man who had so little conception
of what was about to happen to him that he asked for the dessert from his last meal to be
saved for him until the morning. After the execution, Clinton remarked, “I can be nicked a lot,
but no one can say I’m soft on crime.”

He shot four people and wounded two of them before shooting himself (which gave him brain damage)

>>19221652
>He shot four people and wounded two of them before shooting himself (which gave him brain damage)
Well that changes everything, if he did in fact have all his marbles at the time of the crime.

>>19221673
Exactly she is trying to pass off the execution of a murderer who already tried to kill himself as racist.

>>19221018
It's a good book desu, and I'm fairly right-wing before some troon calls me a chud over a book they never read
There is a reason MLK won instead of Malcolm X

>>19221632
>Proof
Have you ever met a black person? I know I'm not being scientific here but come on, you might as well be asking for a source that proves the average pizza is bigger than the average cookie. It is obvious to me, you, and all onlookers that you're pretending not to know as a form of stalling tactic.
(Apologies if you're Icelandic or something and genuinely don't know)

>>19221632
Can it not be that they are also prosecuted for the more serious charge, but when the activist go look for data to feed their narrative, they just count the drug related charge?

>>19221725
This isn't an argument. You're acting like you're the only one who can see that the sky is blue?
>>19221729
Again, do you have proof of this conspiracy?

>>19221725
I know good black people and I have met bad black people. Best thing to do is get rid of welfare. The good ones will stay the bad ones will find some new parasite.

Of course we need to fix the economy first but the left are the ones fucking it up in the first place

>>19221632
>Proof? Why don't they focus on the more serious charges?
Look at the length of George Floyd's rap sheet, and he was out walking free.
White people are given much harsher prison sentences statistically.

>>19221734
It's the book thesis that needs proof, and quoting a statistics that equates all drug criminals doesn't prove anything. If they can show that there is an equal number of white drug criminals with the same surrounding circumstances of the black drug criminals then it is onto something. But we know it isn't so. The white drug criminals are just stoners selling to their rich friends, and the black drug criminals are thugs that are also involved with violent crimes and an all around criminal lifestyle.

>>19221734
blacks know this better than anyone else. and yes experience is an argument for the validity of of larger phenomenon.

>>19221752
lawl, no
http://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
>>19221753
>But we know it isn't so. The white drug criminals are just stoners selling to their rich friends, and the black drug criminals are thugs that are also involved with violent crimes and an all around criminal lifestyle.
You demand proof while refusing to provide any of your own.
>>19221763
It isn't an argument if you have to act like you're the only one who can see the sky is blue.

>>19221783
the stereotype of the criminality is the summed average everyone's experience

>>19221783
I'll make it simple for you since you seem not to be too bright: the book is claiming that there is a conspiracy against the blacks without offering a valid proof. The burden of proof is on them. It's not my job to supply a proof against every crazy theory floating around.

>>19221806
It isn't. Your average person doesn't think blacks are gun-toting murderers in the making, despite the effects of sensationalist news coverage about crime.

>>19221130
What if black people get arrested more because they partake in gang-lifestyle more? What if they are poor because they are more criminal instead the retarded notion that they are criminal because they are poor. During the great depression millions of people were dirt poor but didnt turn to crime.
Black culture seems to be gang culture. Moat of them seem to be unable to partake in civilized society. It is the same with blacks wherever they are around the globe. Seems to be an IQ thing.

>>19221825
You provided your own theory. Seeing as the book presents ideas and evidence (as it should), why should you be exempt from the requirements of providing evidence?

>>19221827
neither do i or the pedestrian racist. the stereotype is about criminality not blacks.

This sounds an awful lot like she came up with a conclusion and then worked backward from there, ignoring whatever contradicted her narrative.

I mean, we've all been to college. We know how this works. Paper/lab due in twelve hours, but you've got some glaring problems. So you ignore the problem!

>>19221783
>lawl, no
https://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/is-the-criminal-justice-system-racist/

>>19221902
Refute the link. Don't just copy-paste a blogpost.

>>19221928
why doesn't the same challenge apply to your use of a link accompanied by nothing other than a snarky post?

>>19221942
I posted the first link. Why don't you lead by example?

>>19221855
It's not just about criminality - it's about black Americans and criminality. Don't be obfuscatory.

>mentally retarded leftist brainwashing
If you read this you're an npc. Remember to sage.

>>19221966
Really the same thing. Blacks are stupid and violent, no matter what country and no matter how much coddling.

>>19221952
i haven't posted any links, just noticed your glaring hypocrisy. seeing this, it is not surprising that you have a view of this thing in the way that you do, i find it is usually a deep-seated dishonesty that gets one to your seeming opinion

>>19221984
Yet the crime rates now don’t compare to the rates during segregation in America. Hell even France in the 20s which had a good chunk of negros didn’t have them commiting the most crime

>>19221993
Ad-hominems aside, are you or are you not the person who posted the link to Ryan Faulk's blog?

>>19222003
Their "culture" (exemplified by rap "music") is worshipping gang activity.

>>19222010
ad hominems are fine. no i am
>>19221442
>>19221763
>>19221806
>>19221855
>>19221942
>>19221993

>>19221966
big difference and it is important to understand
>all blacks are criminals
>all criminals are black
we can tune down the existential quantifier as needed

>>19221442
>they are more activists than neutral researchers.
Absolutely this. Point this out to anybody you know who talks about this with you. These people are not rational and unbiased, they really are little activists. They claim bias is everywhere, which even if we accept as true, they then use this as an excuse to become extremely biased and push their delusional save-the-world bullshit moralfaggotry.

Meanwhile in reality in chimpcongo and other big cities feral animals are being let back on to the streets after beating people and stealing things.

>>19222010
No I am. Ryan Faulk is correct because I said so. He is the authority on this matter. Due to his autism, this is the only thing he cares about.

>>19221836
I'm not providing my own theory. I'm saying that the kind of statistics used in the book is completely useless, and as an example of why it is useless, I'm presenting a possibility that it failed to account for. That possibility just happens to be the common, unscientific experience we all share.

>>19221825
You shouldn't take those claims seriously. According to these people any outcome not perfectly even or egalitarian is racist.

>>19222154
For example if white people scored higher at soccer than black people or vis versa it would be racist

>>19221018
>black people
>struggling
pick one.

>>19222166
You forgot holodomor

>>19222166
>anti-commies and racism
name a better duo

>>19222184
Communists and bread lines

>>19222184
Nothing in that post implies anti-communism and vanguardism is barely even communism.

>>19222020
Then I should be able to call you a racist and end the conversation, right?

>>19222068
>Ryan Faulk is correct because I said so
Can't tell if trolling or just retarded.

>>19222085
You provided a claim and a broader theory. And again, no, we do not all share your personal experiences.

>>19221018
You can find this on 1337x so if you need it for a class dont waste your money on this garbage just download it

>>19221176
this

>>19221835
Blacks and whites use marujana at the same rates and the decison to make crack cocaine harsher punished was cus black people majority used it.

Also, why is black culture the way it is? Ita not an IQ thing because black IQ is steadily increasing over the years as they get access to education, showing IQ is environmental

New Jim Crow but real

>>19222823
Lmao crack and cocaine are harsher punished because they are totally different class of drugs, as in hard drugs retard.

Culture is downstream from race. Sure there is a difference between american blacks and african blacks these days but the difference turned out not that big over all those years. I think it was 5 points or something.

Did you know kids from rich african americans still get into crime double the amount that white kids from poor families do. Funny huh

You black apologists are the worst cancer. Open your fucking eyes instead of doing these mental gymnastics all the time. The sooner you realize whats up its better for all. If its an IQ thing and not white racism why blacks continue to fuck up and people finally acknowledged that on a wode scale there would be so much healing going around. But people like keep burying the truth and with that cripple blacks all the more.
>its not you, its racist white host country blabla
This is why they stop trying. Feminism does the same to girls. You are nothing but a pawn used to destroy the most altruistic societies that have ever existed. Wtfu

>>19222823
>showing IQ is environmental
Effects can have more than one cause. IQ is a heritable trait, but there is an environmental component to it as well.

>>19221394
It sounds like they deserved it to me.

>>19222823
Have you considered that Blacks just commit more crime? I mean, the FBI just came out admitting that Black men, 6% of the population, commit 60% of the rapes, murders, assaults, burglaries, etc in the US.

>>19223327
>2020: 13/50
>2021: 13/60
This just keeps getting better and better.

>>19223391
13/50 is murder iirc

>>19222823
>Blacks and whites use marujana at the same rates
yes but they don't traffic and sell it at the same rate you fucking idiot

>>19221018
>>19221394
I know this thread is probably full of shitposters, but does this book take into account urban/rural divide? I agree a lot of redneck whites also are a part of drug trafficing, but a lot of whites live rural, while a lot of blacks live in big city ghettos, idk if that could largely impact things. I could only assume that law enforcement, personnel, servallence, and actual busts happen much more regularly in urban environments as opposed to rural with the addition of infustructure and lesser ability to disappear into woods.

>>19223443
I dont know I only finished chapter one. My uni is making me read it. I just want to get back to my sci-fi books

>>19222184
Repent, sinner.

>>19223568
Well, its good to engage with things.

Update would be nice. Because that was the first thing that came to my mind. Living in New england, we have a heroine problem, but the thing is, a lot of it is in kinda rural former factory towns. Places that dont have police forces like boston, and you could easily go into a literal who house or trailer a mile into the woods and get some heroine. Is obvious about the number of heroine users (and thus necissarily heroine dealers), but I assume you cant exactly bust them easy. JUst a thought.

That doesnt necissarily mean no racial motivation, if you wanted to boast encarseration numbers, I would think a city would be easer to snoop around in rather than covering a few dozen miles of sparcly populated woodland with a much smaller crew. IDK whhy they would particularly targert black men, one prole is as good as another, and I would think a mix encarcerated class would be better for whatever interests want encarcration so as to lower solidarity and accusations of it.

>>19223391
I'm pretty sure that's for arrests

>>19222391
sure you are completely free to do that but at least not engaging in mental lying like you

>>19221134

We already have places like that. Take Chicago, for example.

>>19223937
just make Alabama into an ethnostate. like Israel.

>>19221018

The "struggle" is made worse by r-selection breeding practices that decrease the quality of the offspring. Let that go several generations, and you end up with the intractable problem we have today.

>>19223990
>worse by r-selection breeding practices that decrease the quality of the offspring. Let that go several generations, and you end up with the intractable problem we have today.
interesting. what is the thesis of this?

I could definitly see predesposed inclinations in terms of general political leanings.

>>19223990
>ANONYMOUS CONSERVATIVE
Ah yes, the only two sides.

>>19224032
true, true

>>19221394
This is an issue of socioeconomics. Blacks are brutally dumb, if you haven't noticed, so are much more likely to be poor and do stupid niggerish shit. The real problem is that they aren't locked up for LONG ENOUGH because they are still getting out and impregnating black females with softball sized heads. IF the bucktard niggers were locked of for much longer sentences then they wouldn't be able to impregnate anything that moves. Over time the really brutally dumb sub nigger 66 IQ bucks would get their terrible DNA removed from the gene pool which would not only help blacks but everyone in general who has to live within 100 miles of them. The only problem with this is the Jews would be furious as the black population would be harder to weaponize against non Jews. So I guess we should just put Jews in concentration camps but for real this time.

>>19222443
t. angry black man

>>19221018
The book's recommendations (letting blacks out of prison; not arresting blacks) has actually been put to the test in the past few years, and particularly since June of 2020 due to the Floyd riots and flu regulations relating to prison capacity.

The results look very shitty so far. Instead of using their newfound freedom from authority wisely, American blacks are using it to slaughter each other. The increase in the US murder rate from 2019 to 2020 was the biggest annual percentage increase ever recorded (over 30% in one single year), much of it driven by blacks choosing to shoot other blacks.

So, Michelle Alexander's ideas about criminal justice reform mostly just seem to result in thousands of extra dead blacks per year.

>>19222823
Yikes. Janny deleted my long post absolutely btfo you and your dump takes. It was the post that starts with saying that crack and cocaine are punished harder because they are in a different drug class, followed by a long plea about how to actually bring some healing to the black community by allowing a different narrative than just white people rayciss keeping da black mane down.

How does it feel to have jannies on your side actively censoring individual posts that try to give a different perspective? Surely if my post didnt hit a very special nerve jew tranny janny would not have had the urge to delete it. This is your side. Only way to keep this bullshit in your head is by censoring others. What a sad joke it all is.

>my magic words must be censored and supressed by leftist ideologues
Thanks for medal and motivation. I shall increase my output, making me better and better in the process. For I will bring seething to every lefist doorstep, the likes of which you have never seen, the likes of which.

>>19224952
Dilate.

>>19225130
The recent spike in crime in America is because the older, experienced cops retired early on in the pandemic because they didn't want to risk catching COVID, and the remaining officers had to stay distanced from each other on patrol. Combine that with the existing shortage of police in some cities, the economic crash, and the massive uptick in gun purchases, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

>>19225741
Janny deletes posts because he apparently doesn't like /pol/ leaving its containment zone, not because he's a leftist.

I don’t understand how African Americans can complain that they are being oppressed when they are the most powerful group of people in America today. You guys do realize you control our government, the corporations, and the media, right? Look at BLM, every company and media outlet in the country was groveling before Black people. Here’s another example: I can go on Twitter right now and say “white people are evil and need to die out” and people will applaud me for it. If I say that about Jews or Indians or Asians, some people will get mad but nothing will happen to me. If I say that about Blacks? I’m losing my job, and there’s a good chance I’ll be blacklisted from society for good. My point is that African Americans are the most powerful group in society and they have a stranglehold on media, business and government. I’m tired of them acting like they are oppressed when it’s literally the opposite.

>>19225940
I havent been on /pol/ since mid 2016 election tourism changed that board forever. And my post was not /pol/ at all. Well, I dont think it was.

>>19224019

Just search for the book title online...there's a free PDF available.

Lol. The white libtards (yes that includes so called leftists as well) here need to watch and read some black women divester content. They'll redpill you on nogs faster than Ryan Faulk.

>>19221144
In my mind. omg muh prooferino sourcerinos gb2reddit

Lmao /lit/ pretends to be intellectual until you bring up a relevant issue and they become mouth frothing retards

>>19225917
your mom's hole, sure

>>19225930
It shouldn't matter in the context of Alexander's thesis in that book specifically. She basically says that 'over-policing' of blacks leads to over-arresting and over-incarceration, which destroys black communities.

All of that has been thrown into reverse. Cops have backed off, incarceration rates have fallen sharply, and instead of helping to heal black communities, they seem to be worse-off and more violent than ever.

There were earlier examples of this same trend - Baltimore cops backed off after the 2015 riots, and instead of pacifying, Baltimore's murder rate exploded to an all-time high by 2017.

>>19227795
Like I said, there's a shortage of cops in some areas - the problem is that they're too finicky about more minor crimes when black men are the suspects. And there's an obvious difference between prospective police and prison reform and a sudden loss of experienced personnel and widespread disruption of law enforcement in general. Your comparison is like comparing a flood to watering a garden.

>>19227830
>the problem is that they're too finicky about more minor crimes when black men are the suspects

But that's not true. Cops have backed way off from certain areas. People aren't being arrested for ANYTHING; not even literal mass-shootings and murders. It's not working very well.

Alexander got what she demanded.

>>19227843
They still are making arrests. Stop with the gaslighting.

>>19225930
>experienced cops retired early on in the pandemic because they didn't want to risk catching COVID
Fuck no, they retired because they didn't want to get prosecuted for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Cops don't give a fuck about the coronavirus. There's a spike in crime because the upper classes find it politically convenient to make a shitload of chaos appear before they use it as an excuse to further crack down on everyone.

>>19226433
Like you're doing right now? Address a post, Jack.

>>19227995
Do your research - cops who are on the streets and potentially face-to-face with people were genuinely worried about catching the virus, since they're face-to-face with people in a bunch of situations. If you're 65 and hearing about a virus that can kill old people, it makes sense to retire with your generous pension and benefits rather than face the possibility of dying alone in a ventilator. They were not worried about being prosecuted for "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" - that's pretty hard to convict someone of. Even when there's a highly publicized case of misconduct that makes it to the public, it's more common for someone to be placed on leave.

>>19225130
>>19227795
>>19227843
Give it up man, these people cannot be convinced. The only hope at this point is a Black person like Harris coming to power so they can be as harsh as needed without having to deal with cries of racism.

>>19228076
Actually they are right, just not in the short and even mid-term. After a century, the strongest black warlords will build somewhat stable kingdoms in each city. As long as everyone else builds walls to keep that shit out of the rest of the country it will be fine. This is the only moral solution.

>>19221394
>whites,
particularly white youth, are more likely to engage in drug crime than people of color
The difference is, niggers are dumb enough to get caught.
They literally smoke weed in the streets, reek of cannabis, then scream "muh racism" when they get arrested.

>>19228061
>Do your research
What, and pore over doctored statistics? Don't waste my time with this bullshit.

>>19228231
I see, anon. Are the doctored statistics with us in the room?

>>19228719
Go to Hell, maybe you'll learn something there. Shiteater.

>>19228076
>The only hope at this point is a Black person like Harris coming to power
They already had their chance with Obama, and that only made things worse.

>>19224124
This. Put us back on the gold standard, Get rid of ridiculous taxes and eliminate the welfare. like I said >>19221742
The good ones will stay and the bad ones will find a new parasite.
>>19226085
They are kept perpetually oppressed because without blacks who will vote democrat?

>>19229832
>if I can make impossible ideas happen then I suggest these reasonable and short sighted ideas because I can’t think of a better world beyond talk radio arguments

>>19223605
I will make a new thread when we read chapter two I guess
All we ever read in georgia are books about racism. Im so sick of the topic. Its either racism (to kill a mocking bird, raisen in the sun, roll of thunder) or books about poor people in the middle east like the breadwinner trilogy. They want to keep us ashamed of our own history not because of racism but because we stood up to the federal government

>>19229837
I have more to say on the subject but im tired. On one hand poor people including blacks cant advance because the economy is designed against them. I think deregulation would fix that. But on the other people dont want to improve themselves because the government gives them money to do nothing.

So I do think the poor should "pull themselves by the bootstrap" But I also understand that they cant for many reasons. Does that make sense?

There are a lot of tags on this board lol !!! Read the book for God's sake before judging it.

>>19221018
Any discussion about an issue as polarizing as race should consider BOTH perspectives. Both sides are sure to have pros and cons, legitimate claims and faults.

The "race discussion" in the West today considers always and only the non-white side. Even the mere suggestion that maybe we should consider the other side of the equation is silenced and suffocated with insults, cancellation and even violence. The same is true for any mention of black-on-white crime statistics (especially murder and rapes) and for any attempt to give black people their share of the responsibility for their own issues. Any such interjection gets immediately shut down, censored and deleted.

This is enough to prove that non-whites have A LOT of guilt to hide and are bad faith interlocutors hellbent in exploiting the current political climate to extract as much money and power as they can for purely selfish and greedy reasons. The book in the OP is just one more propaganda tool to reach this goal.

>>19221110
wypipo bad. gib money.

>>19221394
Jesus fuck, the sheer amount of lies and distortion of statistics.

>These stark racial disparities cannot be explained by rates of drug crime.
Indeed. They could be explained by genetic differences, but it's illegal to talk about it and do research about it.

>people of all colors use and sell illegal drugs at remarkably similar rates.
Simply not true.

>whites, particularly white youth, are more likely to engage in drug crime than people of color.
Also not true. The author is probably using one of the cheapest tricks to lie with statistics: conflating different behaviors under the same label. White youth committ "drug crimes" by smoking some joint. Blacks committ "drug crimes" by selling all kinds of drugs and by shooting each other for it. Tiny difference, isn't it?

>our nation’s prisons and jails, which are overflowing with black and brown drug offenders. black men have been admitted to prison on drug charges at rates twenty to fifty times greater than those of white men.
No shit. Turns out that dealing drugs by the fuckton and killing other people for it is gonna land you in jail more often than buying some drugs for personal use. Who would have guessed? But no, it's certainly raycism!

>as many as 80 percent of young African American men now have criminal records and are thus subject to legalized discrimination for the rest of their lives.
No shit. Felons ALL have a stigma, not only black ones. There's an easy solution (not committing serious crimes) but blacks seem incapable of considering this option.
Notice also the subtle intellectual dishonesty: how the author slides in a word burdened by severely negative connotations (discrimination) in order to make it look unfair that people that have been in prison for dealing drugs or committing drug-related violence are not considered stand up chaps by society.

The entire book is gonna be like this, isn't it? Anti-white, black apologist propaganda.

>>19230545
And it was only one paragraph. Imagine 300 pages of this shit.

>>19230545
The big part of the problem is people are forced to argue about arrests for drug crime without acknowledging the unstated reality that drug crime arrests are an indirect way of removing gang members who also engage in far more serious crime on a regular basis. On paper, is it fair that Jonquavius was locked up for marijuana? Yes. But Jonquavius was also involve in home invasions and a drive by shooting that could not be prosecuted because no one in his hood would give information.

This is why the laws introduced in 1994 helped reduce the out of control crime up to that point.

>>19230545
>but it's illegal to talk about it and do research about it.
lol

>>19230545
Sounds like you're very eager to excuse whatever the government does.

>>19230728
Where's the evidence of all this? Why don't they focus on prosecuting serious crimes? That seems like a very inefficient way of justice that could cause more trouble than it's worth.

>>19221107
kek

>>19230787
'Drug arrests' are largely a myth anyway. In a major city like Chicago, only about 15-20% of actual murders are solved in any given years. Gangs are openly carjacking people (even though carjacking is a federal crime, not just a state offense), engaging in shootouts on major roads and freeways, hitting hundreds of bystanders, and authorities do close to nothing.

Where are all these people supposedly incarcerated in cities like Chicago for 'minor drug offenses'? And cities like Chicago are where this would need to be demonstrated, since Chicago displays all the pathologies that Alexander complains about in the book.

It seems like her core thesis is simply wrong and is contradicted by obvious and measurable reality such as Chicago arrest and prosecution statistics for serious violent crimes.

>>19230814
You didn't answer the question. Where is the evidence that all those drug arrests are/were really ruthless killers or rapists who just happened to be arrested on drug charges, and why is the government taking such a ham-fisted approach?
BTW Chicago isn't enacting police or penal reform or anything. They're short on staff, some officers are doing walkouts, and the police union is playing chicken with the municipal government and the vaccine mandate.

>>19221018
niggers commit vastly more crime of all kinds.
is this fact ever seriously discussed and addressed in this book?

>>19221107
kek

>>19221394
one in three black men is a convicted felon.
black men commit the majority of violent crime despite being just 7% of the population.

Reminder that it has been completely debunked for half a century that blacks are unfairly overpoliced for crime.
They are arrested at the exact same rate for which they are reported as the offender according to the National Crime Victimization Survey consistently.

https://www.amren.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Color-Of-Crime-2016.pdf

https://www.c-span.org/video/?124103-1/race-crime-report

You cannot refute these facts. You won't even try. You will deflect if you even respond.

>>19230842
>all those drug arrests
>arrested on drug charges

I'm saying that there is no big pool of 'drug arrests' in cities like Chicago, let alone 'charges.'

>>19230885
False. This takes like two seconds to see. The book is also older, from the 2000s I think.

>>19230842
The fact that all those other serious crimes also sharply fell once the '94 Drug laws were put in place and enforced.

>>19230907
It's not false; it's absolutely true. Her entire argument hinges on the existence of a large population of incarcerated 'nonviolent drug offenders.' But that pool doesn't seem to exist, as the New York Times itself admitted in 2015:

> Incarceration Nation: How to Cut the Prison Population (See for Yourself)

>...The interactive program allows you to assess for yourself the impact of different policy changes. Cut in half the sentences for those convicted of property crimes? Inmates in 2021 are down by 10 percent.

>What surprised me most in using the tool, as one who has followed the debate on criminal reform, is just how hard it will be to turn back the clock and achieve deep reductions in incarceration. Traffic tickets for pot smokers won't take us there, and neither will making petty thieves sweep sidewalks or retroactively ending the wildly disparate sentences for crack possession.

>There is no avoiding the politically poisonous question of releasing violent offenders or reducing their long sentences. "We need to start what's going to be a long and difficult conversation about violent crime," Mr. King said.

>I was startled by these calculations for New Jersey, for example: Cutting in half the number of people sent to prison for drug crimes would reduce the prison population at the end of 2021 by only 3 percent. By contrast, cutting the effective sentences, or time actually served, for violent offenders by just 15 percent would reduce the number of inmates in 2021 by 7 percent - more than twice as much, but still hardly the revolution many reformers seek.

>New Jersey could reduce its prison population by 25 percent by 2021. But to do it, it would have to take the politically fraught step of cutting in half the effective sentences for violent offenders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/upshot/how-to-cut-the-prison-population-see-for-yourself.html

The whole 'prison abolition' movement has always been about letting violent thugs run free, not 'drug offenders.'

>>19230935
That's the same trend that occurred in most developed countries, and in roughly the same time. Look at the numbers for Canada, France, or the UK.

Her entire argument is that prison is bad per se. But that's wrong; prison works, as Dr. Ed Dutton explains:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/7hnZOG9ou5aG/

So, the book has some interesting individual anecdotes, but as a work of policy, it's catastrophically wrong in what it recommends.

>>19230938
As far as I know, Alexander isn't and has never been a prison abolitionist. And we might be talking about different time frames. The period of scaling up the drug war (crucial to her thesis) occurred in the 70s-early 2000s. By 2021, it's relaxed a bit.

A balanced critique of the book that's not based on racist autistic screeching:
https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://en.wikipedia.org/&httpsredir=1&article=4599&context=fss_papers

>>19230944
>needing to go to bitch-chute to find support
https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittTheEffectOfPrison1996.pdf
Note that it has diminishing returns
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/vera/379_727.pdf

>>19222443
What is your personal experience?

>>19223990
>How conservatism and liberalism evolved in animals
What?

Does the book talk about how black schools are cooking the books to graduate kids, leading to people who have zero skills?
I think that's a huge problem that just gets swept under the rug.
Ghost classes and ghost students are a real issue.

>>19230941
Canada, the UK, and France all saw increases in their number of drug arrests in the mid-to-late 1990s. In the UK they nearly doubled until falling closer to 1997. We had a huge heroin problem (see Trainspotting for a nice example) and some reefer as well. Coincidentally, all crime followed a similar trend in falling with drug arrests

>>19230777
It pretty much is. You might be able to fool the denizens of normieville but you're gonna have to step up your game where people can call you out on your shit.

I FUCKING HATE BLACK PEOPLE!!!!!

At this point I’m pretty black-pilled about White-Black race relations in the United States. I think one of three options will happen:
1. Worst case scenario: One race will genocide the other. Most likely Blacks will genocide Whites, as Whites are too demoralized and mentally weak to fight back. I think it is somewhat likely (~40% chance of a “race war” within our lifetimes) that such a genocide will be attempted, but I doubt it will succeed, and the human tragedy this scenario would cause makes preventing it a priority.
2. Fusion scenario: the Whites and Blacks merge into a mulatto race as time passes. Probably the most peaceful option, but it will take a long time and to be honest this may result in people clashing like how they do in LatAm over race.
3. “Separate but Truly Equal”. I think this is the most likely scenario. Whites and Blacks will operate in different areas, and racial conflict fades as these two races stop interacting outside of work, media, and national celebrations. I think we see plenty of examples of this happening. Look at stuff like universities having graduations for different races. The African Americans have their own flag and anthem at this point as well. I can it becoming a Flanders-Walloon or maybe Chinese SAR type of situation.

>>19224124
You’ve been repeating this same inane shit for 15 years. When will it be enough? It’s not shocking, it’s just boring

>>19232104
Fusion scenerio isn't going to happen despite the propaganda otherwise.
Although mix race couples are more common, people are mostly sticking to their own.
If option 1 or 2 doesnt happen, it will be more likley that the offspring of blacks lower class whites identifying as black and making the black population marginally lighter.

>>19232104
>Most likely Blacks will genocide Whites, as Whites are too demoralized and mentally weak to fight back.
Whites are mostly "demoralized" because they are willing to cede the lip service on racial issues in exchange to live comfortably in the status quo. If it got bad enough for this type of situation to actually happened, I'm not sure how many true believers in the egalitarian ideology would actually be left.

>>19232104
>I can it becoming a Flanders-Walloon
what's a "flanders walloon" situation?

>>19231997
Their prison populations didn't change much, especially compared to the US's. IIRC prison sentences in the US are multiple times longer than they are in other wealthy countries.

>>19232052
Which law?

>>19232472
The sheer proportion of the population being in prison never reached America's epic scale, but actually the growth was pretty similar between the US and the UK. Compare pic related to this link for US stats
>https://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/state_driver_rates_1925-2012.png?v=1
The y-axis data points are different for both (% growth vs. # per 100,000) but you can still see a precipitous growth in prison populations during the 1990s and early 2000s for both countries. I don't know about the rest of Europe in this regard, but I suspect that Ireland and France at least have similar numbers since they had similar crime crises to us back then

>>19231768
I've been on public transport in DC many times and New York a few times, and I've walked around DC and NYC at night multiple times. Never had a problem. If you live in a place like the bad parts of Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Detroit, you might have a higher chance of getting mugged or your house broken into, but it's not like everyone puffing on a joint there is doing so in between breaking into old peoples' apartments and beating them to death before stealing everything.

>>19232543
You see a bit of a rise in the Western European average but it's much larger in the US.

>>19232564
Yeah, while a 100% increase from 50 to 100 per 100,000 is something, the US has a head start with 200 per 100,000 going to jail. There is still a likely link between drug arrests and arrests for violent crimes. It's like Capone getting done in on tax fraud. Drugs are the easiest way to put someone away, especially in the US. They are still very serious offences in the UK, as well, although Britain's legal and police culture is too different from the US to compare them too much

And here's Canada

>>19232462
In Belgium, the Dutch-speaking population (the Flemish) and the French-speaking population (the Walloons) live in the same country but in geographically different areas that with the exception of Brussels don’t overlap. I can see African Americans and White Americans reaching a similar equilibrium, and as a result racial tensions would decrease.

>>19232481
Say "nigger" or even "faggot" anywhere near a leftist college campus and find out. Say you don't agree with how many young men are being convinced that they're women anywhere close to one. I dare you.

>>19232598
ok like quebec vs the rest of canada

>>19223990
All humans are K selected

Her main idea is that basically that putting too many black men in prison was bad for society. But we've had a live-action experiment in 'de-incarceration' and big reductions in arrests since last year. So far, it hasn't gone well. If I were Snopes, I'd have to declare her thesis DEBOONKED.

>>19232912

r-selection involves quantity over quality, absent fatherhood, early onset sexuality, and the assumption of infinite resources.

There are a LOT of humans that match that description, unfortunately.

>>19233069
Like was said earlier, it's not like this is a controlled thing. There's chaos across the board in law enforcement because of the pandemic, not because of penal reform.

>>19233285
It's not so much a thing on an ethnic basis. Not reliably anyways. For example, Nigerians have a fertility rate of 5.3. African-Americans, many of whom have their roots in Nigeria, have a fertility rate of 1.9. Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel have a fertility rate of 7, while their secular or moderate cousins have a fertility rate of 3.

>>19232912
You are right but not for the reasons you think.

>>19233461

It's more than just birth rate.

>>19233452
People have an independent moral duty not to commit crime, even if there are no cops around at all. Alexander's thesis is that putting people in prison is bad on its own. But when they are released, and when arrests drop, things actually seem to get WORSE, not better. This means that her predictions are not supported by actual evidence.

>>19223990
>conservativism and liberalism revolve entirely around sex
The closest a conservative has gotten to being honest with himself

>>19233560
Fuck no, the fact that some people claim that's honesty just goes to show how depraved they are of spirit.

>>19233552
She's not a prison abolitionist. I dunno where you get that.

>>19233452
Yeah and that guy got blown the fuck out and didn't bother to engage when he knew he was toast.

>>19221394
does "drug crime" distinguish between possession and trafficking? and does it take into account when you go into court for a minor possession but also have a felony record sometimes quite long the court tends not to go easy on you?

>>19221827
you'd be surprised how many average people do but are smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it

>>19222823
upping the penalties on crack was a direct response to the murder rate of black males exploding in just a few years. guess who asked for something to be done about?

Gee, leftists really are the least honest people to ever walk the face of the planet, aren't they. If only they'd just come out and say it. They won't, because they're cowards. But we wouldn't be having this problem if they had a shred of decency.

>>19228061
there's not a lot of 65 year beat cops, anon. there's not a lot of 65 year cops period, they get out as early as possible if they're not shooting for upper level promotions owing to the nature of the work

>>19221827
If anything it's swept under the rug

>>19230938
there is some logic for releasing violent offenders once they've reached a certain age. like, how much trouble is a 60 year old going to get in? everybody he knows is dead or moved on or in jail themselves. if he goes around shooting off his mouth he'll be beaten or killed by a carbon copy of himself at 20

>>19232104
the 4th and more likely option is that latinos reach 30-40% of the population and blacks suddenly discover how much they'd been coasting off white guilt

>>19233745
Not really. California is almost 40% Mexican, and blacks are basically revered as Gods in that state, in terms of criminal justice policy and state-level politics. The LAPD is terrified of getting into a use-of-force situation against black suspects, and has pulled back from black areas, leading to an explosion in the state's murder rate (up an astonishing 30% in 2020 relative to 2019).

>>19223617
It’s for violent crime convictions.

>>19233649
You saying so doesn't make it true.

>>19233715
The opposite is true. US media loves to cover crime.

>>19233713
65 was just a random number. A lot of people over 50ish were/are pretty scared of COVID-19, especially in the early months.

>>19233761
Oh I'm sure.
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/lapd-has-already-opened-fire-more-in-2021-than-all-of-last-year/
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-26/covid-outbreaks-plague-lapd-fire-agencies-data-show

>>19233761
LA is actually an interesting example when it comes to Latino-Black relations. In some parts of LA it’s literally been ethnic replacement, with formerly Black areas becoming Hispanic.

>>19233857
They cover man bites dog crime.

>>19233884
They cover unusual incidents but also cover more common crimes on the regular. There's some evidence this actually influenced criminal justice policy in the country.
https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=wmlr

>>19233846
At this point it might as well.

>>19233908
>the law is downstream from media
More news at 11.

>>19232586
It may make it easier to put someone away if you can't secure testimony for more serious charges (this does happen), but that doesn't mean that everyone in prison or jail for drug related charges is there because they couldn't be convicted of a more serious charge. The US and some other countries took the drug war very seriously - it's not like it was all a front for imprisoning people who should have been imprisoned anyways.

How can anyone believe the difference in treatment between cocaïne and crack is because of racism?
I've seen people of nearly every race taking both drugs, and only one of these drugs turned people into zombies shitting in the streets

>>19233942
>How can anyone believe the difference in treatment between cocaïne and crack is because of racism?
Put simply, they don't. Not the ones nagging about it anyway.

The whole point of this thread is stupid. It would make the world a better place not to hold such shameless political propaganda to the standard of being called literature or philosophy.

>>19233857
Not at all. Even mass-shootings in the US are usually local news at most, whereas a mass-shooting in Western Europe becomes the top national story for days. The US media massively downplays the level of violence in American cities relative to their first-world peers. St. Louis last year had a higher homicide rate than Honduras - how many people actually know that, though? The mass-media covers it up.

The thing is, Alexander already 'won.' She was supporting 'reformist' prosecutors like Larry Krasner in Philadelphia, Kim Gardner in St. Louis, Kim Foxx in Chicago, and so on. Her candidates got elected. The conditions in those cities (and others) directly reflect her policy preferences.

She should declare victory and gloat about it, but she seems oddly reluctant to talk about winning.

>>19234027
>Even mass-shootings in the US are usually local news at most
lol
Do you actually believe that?

>>19223990
Africans have always practiced r-type selection which is related to why you see African Domestic Patterns wherever they go and why 100% of the time they have a higher standard of living, greater safety and achievement in white countries under white rule. This realization is what forced me to change my political stance from virulent anti-white Leftist Globohomo Communist to virulently anti-Semitic crypto Nazi. I now believe in ethno nationalism for everyone and that the Jews need to be physically isolated from everyone else, maybe put them all on an island like Madagascar or Crete. In my quest for absolute truth reality based and red pilled me, basically against my will. I came to the conclusion that only an organized white race can protect the planet and thus BIPOCs from the insatiable avarice, brutal psychopathic ethnic narcissism and pure fucking evil of the Jews, the Han Chinese and the Globalist parasite class. Since I had this epiphany I dropped out of my Comparative Literature studies and got a job as an electrician apprentice. I’ve stop taking HRT and wearing dresses as well. Before dumping my black boyfriend I topped him for a change (I’ll admit it was rape) and called him a faggot. Now I’m almost back to normal and going through life as the biological male that I was born. I hope others are courageous enough to fight back against the pervasive toxic femininity weaponized against the planet by the slimy vicious Jewish media.

>>19234048
Yes. It's objectively true. Look at this list - how many of these incidents did you even know about? The media ignores most of them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2021

>>19230882
This post will be ignored

>>19234035
>She should declare victory and gloat about it, but she seems oddly reluctant to talk about winning.
Yeah leftists do that all the time. Their policies fail and then they blame someone else for it and use their own failings as justification to sabotage everyone and everything more.

Anyway, it's obvious the commies that came over here to distract people from the things that really matter aren't going to stop blatantly lying to people, so I guess I'll leave them to it.

>>19234054
The particularly violent or otherwise notable ones usually make national news. Smaller ones usually make statewide news, maybe nearby counties in neighboring states.

>>19234035
You mean the conditions that preceded these reformists? You're like someone who yells at a firefighter for showing up to a burning house because the house keeps burning.

>>19232203
>When will it be enough? It’s not shocking, it’s just boring
When you stop lying, when you stop treating blacks like a retarded child race (even though that’s what they are), when you stop giving Jews, who control everything you see, hear and read through their monopoly of media, a free pass with their never ending passive-aggressive attacks and pathological lying. I’ll stop when you admit that you are a pathetic excuse for a male, devoid of any courage (even within your own mind), devoid of strength of any kind. When you admit that the anti-family, anti-truth, anti-human perversions of globalist propaganda and authoritarian leftism is the root of the growing suffering and malaise and depression spreading through the West like wildfire.
Boring? There is nothing more boring than your herd like, bugman, comfort seeking existence. Jesus man, wake up

>>19232203
This is for you I think lol. Schizoposters are anything but boring, IMHO
>>19234050

>>19234094
The reforms were supposed to IMPROVE things. Instead, we've seen the opposite, like Philadelphia going from 248 murders in 2014 to 500 last year. How does that even happen in a wealthy first-world city inside of a surveillance state?

Well, if you implement Alexander's policies...

>>19232598
This won’t work with black and whites. In Belgium the two groups are equal in ability and civility. This is not true for blacks and whites. Blacks are almost completely helpless without outside support. You see this the world over. Without outside support, without whites or foreign investment blacks devolve into shantytown villages and consume everything in their path. See Haiti, make sure you look at a satellite image of the deforestation and destruction of their side of the island.

>>19234148
Or if you look at the context and data, which shows that much of the country, regardless of criminal justice policy, has been afflicted with rising crime rates.

>>19233705
Leftism is a religion that hides behind a facade of academia

>>19234075
Leftists like Communists don’t care about results. They care only about spreading their ideology. When their hateful woke ideology fails to achieve anything they just double down on it. It’s really scary.

>>19234176
That’s Marxist-Leninism, and other assorted tnakies.
And market fundies.
And nationalists/patriots of any stripe, though yeah, they don’t hide behind academia much

>>19221166
He didn't break the law. Man, /lit/'s as dumb as /his/ about Christianity.

>>19234678
can you explain why only Marxist-Leninism specifically falls into that category?

>>19234913
And other assorted tankies.
Why do they need to prop themselves up as some kind of religion like every other state, both past and present, theological or secularist? To capture the people’s complete obedience to better control them.

“Civilizations” collapse when that confidence withers. Which is a good thing.

>>19234168
also, walloons and flemish aren't different races. Both are western europeans.

>>19221394
big nothing burger unless the book went out of its way to control for
-how much one is carrying
-how often one does drugs
-tendency to buy drugs outdoors/from strangers
-nature of drug crimes and type of drugs
-revisitivism rates
I suspect they didn't do any of this and determined that white people sell and use drugs at the same rate as black people by simplifying the statistical analysis as much as possible, ie asking "have you ever done drugs" and finding out a similar proportion of the black and white population have ever done drugs, meaning a white kid who tried pot in college is equivalent to a crack junkie.

>>19221118
No shit retard, he's a fucking prosecutor. Admitting she was right would make him wrong. You should probably read & lurk more before saying some stupid obvious bullshit.

>>19233857
The Media promotes only information it believes will further the anti-white narrative.

>>19230882
this post has still been ignored.

Jared Taylor has been preaching this message for decades and he has been ignored for decades and never refuted.
Blacks are overwhelmingly criminal and their rates of criminality are are in spite of preferential treatment, not the result of discriminatory selection.
All new books and studies are mere attempts to sweep this under the rug and shift the blame elsewhere. Everyone knows the truth, even if they won't admit it.

>>19221018
>P-PRISON BAD

Maybe don't commit crime or just be better at it so you don't get caught?

>>19230882
Felony convictions are lifetime things. There are millions of black men who were alive during the 70s-2000s wave of abnormally harsh penal policies, and 2/3 of blacks live in the South, where the crackdown was particularly severe and to a degree still is today. In Virginia for example you can be convicted of a felony for possessing more than a small amount of marijuana.

>>19236901
Yes anon, it's all a vast, elaborate conspiracy against you and your fellow travelers.

>>19232416
>We live in the best possible world!

>>19236902
This goes back to the lazy man with the bronze knives taking people as debt slaves. People forced to live in poverty resort to the natural and necessary tactic of taking food that is there, etc. so-called crimes have been putting natural people trying to live behind bars to torture them for millennia. It is extremely rare to see any of them work as a “correctional facility” and reform the inmates. They’re normally for breeding a more fierce criminal mind to later unleash on communities that are considering overthrowing the powers-that-be.
Prison is always bad and always to create MORE crime

>>19221033
Hehe my name not Shirley me airplane man hehe

We are all counting on you, good luck

>>19232416
They were so thankful that they needed to build a wall to secure Roman rule.

>>19226433
Unfortunately yes. If anyone of you guys arguing is over the age of 22 you should feel very embarrassed. This is one of the shittiest dialogues I've read through in a while. If you're under 22 I guess you get a free pass for being this retarded, and I guess it may be time for me to leave this joint

>>19237826
Picts weren't Britons you moron. Unless by Britons we would mean all inhabitants of the Isles but the includes Britain-born Romans, who built said walls. Either way, your quip was shit.

>>19224032
>Butterfly posting Polonskaya
I've seen everything. Time to go.

>>19221018
[Chorus]
Nigga song
Nigga song, nigga song
Nigga song, nigga song, aah

>>19221018
The thesis isn't entirely wrong, but it ignores the fact that this isn't as much of a racial issue as it makes it out to be. A better title would've been The New Debt Prisons.