/lit/ - Literature

>>19226609
>Recommend me some literature about the corrupt banking system, and how it's essentially a house of cards doomed to collapse as soon as banks stop giving out loans.
This is proven to be right. Nobel laureate agrees.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/04/05/the-world-economy-is-a-pyramid-scheme-steven-chu-says/?sh=54f2d3e24f17

>>19226628
Well what's the solution then? Overthrowing the government?

This problem has existed for over a century now, and there is no way you can possibly 'vote out' private banks. The average voter doesn't have the attention span to understand this issue let alone fight against it.

>>19226648
There's nothing we commoners can do. We will collapse eventually and then go back to a feudal system.

>>19226663
>we commoners
I am no commoner.

>>19226663
any day now bro

>>19226691
We still haven't reached critical levels of overpopulation.

>>19226648
It’s the basic system in place since the middle ages. People used to use a kind of money that lasted a day before lords and knights came in to basically capture the populace with their rules and regulations. (I came across this second hand, but I bet David Graeber’s Debt has this detailed in it)

>>19226663
We out number them as we always have. The way they control us is crumbling around the edges. We can have a pre-feudal system, we just need control of the media and proper information reaching the masses

>>19226736
Who is them? (((them)))?

>>19226736
what would a pre-feudal system be like?

>>19226736
The masses will never accomplish anything. They never have.
You need a class of professional revolutionaries. It is the only way.

Capitalism is not about to collapse. As long as the market keeps expanding, [which it it is thanks to immigration and colonialism via 'democracy'] capital will continue growing bigger and bigger.
>>19226747
Issue yourself credit based on the value you produce through your labor.

>>19226741
The upper class, the owner class, the rentier class.
This isn’t a blood feud, this is a matter of elitist scum making mankind do their bidding

>>19226747
I was only meaning the economics there. More reasonable markets of trade. I advocate the non accumulative labor voucher, but it can be even more simplified than that if a place wants.
Again, I’m Graeber (or even Michael Hudson’s Forgive Them Their Debts) covers it quite well.

das kapital ..

>>19226762
The masses do everything around here. Idiotic to think they need some managerial section, much less a lazy sponge section.
>professional revolutionaries
Military coups aren’t revolutionary.

>>19226736
>we just need control of the media
We already have that in Britain. The British Broadcasting Corporation, by the people, for the people. Objective, non-partisan news and information.

the circulation of capital is a necessity for the system to reproduce itself. the slowing or stopping of circulation creates a crisis. read marx.

>>19226817
>some old dead white man said it so it must be true...

>>19226609
>Recommend me some literature about the corrupt banking system, and how it's essentially a house of cards doomed to collapse as soon as banks stop giving out loans.
You probably want Matt Taibbi on HSBC or something but noting interesting is going to start in the banking sector (in developed countries with deposit insurance anways) but the next giga-WTF moment will come from crypto scams and if the government is going to bailout retards when Tether loses control of their peg or something gives over the next decade

>>19226809
>Idiotic to think they need some managerial section
Ah yes lets have the the soldiers voting on what the army should do, students the school and universities, workers the business, the uncultured the arts....

You are also quite literally anti-civilization Butters. You have admitted as much yourself. I dont take your opinion very seriously on this subject, even though your heart might be in the right place.

No the masses have never accomplished anything, ever, period. The masses accomplishing something is 'contradictio in adjecto'. It is precisely achievement which makes someone stand out as an 'individual'.

>>19226816
The Tories channel?

>>19226817
Which is why they’d hate it if we switched to vouchers and stopped paying for their war/security state.

>>19226817
>the circulation of capital is a necessity for the system to reproduce itself. the slowing or stopping of circulation creates a crisis. read marx.
Ok but the reason for this is the banking system.
Did Marx even know that the money banks lend out does not even exist? In volume 3 of capital there is mention of 'fictitious capital' but there is no systematic evaluation on the phenomenon. Capital needs to constantly circulate because banks have to constantly lend out money. Capital is tied to the currency which is in use.

>>19226872
>The Tories channel?
Yes, the BBC admittedly is right wing media, but that only reflects public sentiment. The Tories were voted in by the People.

>>19226855
In the case of a war you need commanders. Not places of business.
I am anti-extinction and realize we need to wind down quite a bit. I like necessary advances wherever the people decide there’s something necessary.
No again. You’ve never been more wrong as this. The masses are the only ones accomplishing anything. For good or ill. Your case is that they don’t unite. And what? You think a glorious leader is all that unites them. Yawn.

Going away for a few hours. Try not to be too dumb.

>>19226894
The people wanted Corbyn. But the UK isn’t a democracy

>>19226901
Believe me, I was there at Glastonbury, summer of 2019, misty-eyed, singing "Ooooh Jeremy Corbyn" just before Stormzy came on. It was legendary, but your claims are total bollocks. Our democracy works, too well perhaps. The People voted and their voice was heard. Some of us dreamed of a more equitable future but sadly, just like with Brexit, the masses voted against their own interests.

>>19226609
>house of cards
It's just a mythology. You know, when you were all first made slaves off, it was with force. But like any domesticated animal, you grow docile. And so any story will do. You will go to heaven. You will have your own house. You will be happy. One day
But the hunting grounds, the fields, the forest, oh no, we better take care of them, you mind the factory, you do the shitposting
AI will send you to pasture

>>19226897
The people I hang out with, 'artists' just as yourself don't care about 'democratic ownership' over the means of production. 'We' want our paycheck, or more importantly free time—for our intellectual and artistic pursuits. I don't want my opinion to be heard in a factory. I don't even want to be near one, if I had to work in one for the rest of my life I would put a bullet in my brain.

'Managers' are not bourgeoisie. They are not the owners. They are not the rentiers. They are workers, employed by the owners as directors, because they contain a special set of skills which is necessary when dealing with an economy as specialized as ours. The fact of the matter is that the masses have poor organizational ability. You cannot 'democratically' run a company that has tens of thousands of workers, each specialized with a particular set of skills. You need leaders.

Workers don't want 'workplace democracy', they want a living wage, they want shorter hours, they want healthcare. If they're not getting their needs that is what the general strike is for, but workplace democracy is hardly the qualm of any working man.

The masses never accomplish anything. The masses still participate in elections, the mass delusion of democracy. I have never voted in my life and never will. Men don't 'vote' they use violence. Your fetishization of democracy is the same stupidity as the social democrats—who the Fascists and the Revolutionary Syndicalists before them rightfully opposed as a degeneration of socialism.

>>19226935
>The People voted
>Sucking off a wanker makes me make you cum
Christ you fucking moron

>>19226956
You are a slave too fucking retard.

>>19226901
>>19226968
>thinks labor will accomplish anything
Even pic related left them because of how conservative they were lmao

>>19226966
Thanks for telling us what "workers" want 4chan shitposter, you seem really grounded and not like a sheltered turd.

>>19227003
>YOU don't know what workers want, I know what works want
At least make an argument shitface.

>>19226609
I've studied this subject to death, and although I wouldn't expect you to just follow some random anon...here are my thoughts.

First - you're starting with a conclusion that the economy is going to collapse. This will lead you down conspiracy lane. Be cognizant of your implicit biases.

Second - I would actually start not with an economics textbook but with something that explains how money is created in a fiat system (via the commercial banking sector). Something like where does money come from by Josh Ryan Collins.

Third - Once you understand the basics of money you can move to the history of money or maybe economics to branch out.

My last piece of advice is to understand early on that "DEBT" is someone else's "ASSET". They are 2 sides to the same coin. When someone says everybody has so much debt....Well that also means someone else owns that DEBT or is expecting to be repaid. So by extension a lot of debt also means a lot of weath.

To touch on your conclusion (which again
you shouldn't assume) collapse and breakdown happens when debts cannot be repaid. This happens during wars. However, in normal times the goverment simply encourages more borrowing or by direct stimulus. This then creates inflation which is essentially a tax on the debt holder. And frankly it can go one without collapse in practical perpetuity.

>>19227085
>collapse and breakdown happens when debts cannot be repaid
>And frankly it can go one without collapse in practical perpetuity.
Again, don't banks have to constantly give out loans to keep the flow of money circulating? If new debt isn't taken on the money supply shrinks and deflation occurs and the market is left only being able to trade with the limited money supply.

>>19226609
the bitcoin standard
though i read it for the crypto interest it covers the history of money, the gold standard and the nationalization of money.

the loss of the gold standard has been catastrophic and the book is valuable due to this

>>19226736
>>19226772
>>19226809
>>19226872
>>19226897
>>19226901
I'm not gonna read your commie garbage.

>>19226966
you sound like a teenager lol the other guy didn't make an argument because you didn't say anything to argue against you just blogged about your feelings and then posited your opinions with no supporting arguments

>>19227186
I told you that workers don't want 'workplace democracy' but better working conditions, shorter hours, higher pay. My support for this is my own anecdotal experience.

>>19227125 here
right now im reading another work on the history of money, more precisely about money in middle ages by jacques le goff. i plan to read What Has Government Done to Our Money? by Rothbard soon. it might be exactly what OP is looking for. anyway The Bitcoin Standard is a good entry point

>>19227125
>>19227204
Gold is literally shiny rocks you dig up from the ground, it's just a commodity. Bitcoin isn't money since it's demand is totally volatile from its primary use for speculative gains. lolbertarian retards BTFO by reality

Sowell, Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, Schiff are some authors for starters.

>>19227255
>lolbertarian retards BTFO by reality
The same reality where gold has been used as money for thousands of year, still held as the #1 reserve to this date?

Alright

>>19227259
>lolberts
Retroactively refuted by Marx

>>19227263
Self issued credit was used in markets a hell of a lot longer than gold has, smartypants. Do you know why the bourgeoisie assassinated caesar? Because he removed the gold monopoly which made money scarce.

>>19227114
Yes it’s my belief that in order for the economy to grow debt must grow as well.

>>19227263
>The same reality where gold has been used as money for thousands of year
No one argues that, Marxist and lolbertians just have a goofy understanding on why commodity money existed which leads to grave contemporary misunderstandings and expectations

>still held as the #1 reserve to this date
Again that's a legacy issue, you'll notice some developed nations have totally sold off any gold reserves they've had. A big national gold buyer today is Russia, a big bitcoin buyer is El Salvador make of that what you will

>>19226935
Wog

>>19227255
yeah and money is just paper printed by banks. what is your point? at least there is scarcity to gold

>>19227351
>scarcity
THAT'S NOT GOOD YOU FUCKING IDIOT. MONEY SHOULD NOT BE A COMODITY. MONEY IS A MEASURE OF WEALTH, NOT WEALTH IN ITSELF.
IMAGINE IF YOU CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE BECAUSE YOU RUN OUT OF INCHES. THAT IS WHAT 'SCARCE' MONEY IS.

>>19227351
I wasn't making any particular point I was just dabbing

>>19227363
money is a reserve of value.

how do you measure wealth? you don't even know how people measure an inch, there is no inch in reality, measure is a mental abstraction. NGMI

>>19227394
>money is a reserve of value.
IT'S A MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE
>you don't even know how people measure an inch
IT'S CALLED A STANDARD
>there is no inch in reality
THERE ARE NO 'CHAIRS' IN REALITY

MONEY IS UNIT OF MEASURE, IT'S NOT A RESERVE, IT'S NOT A COMMODITY. WHEN MONEY BECOMES COMMODITY YOU GET DEFLATION AND BAD THINGS.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHHHH
https://youtu.be/79NobqRcjJQ

>>19227413
you are too juvenile. you will understand things better as you grow up

>>19227431
YOU ARE THE JUVENILE FOOL WHO BELIEVES IN COMMODITY MONEY. COMMODITY MONEY IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM WE HAVE NOW. 'GOLD STANDARD' WON'T FIX ANYTHING YOU FOOL. WERE GREENBACKS BACKED BY GOLD OR SILVER, YOU BAFFOON?

>>19227394
Not that guy but "reserving" "value" is obviously kind of questionable operationally if you believe value is subjective. Measuring wealth can be done with any made up metric and you don't need money for that. Money functions as a means of payment settlement, what works cheapest and best for that will end up being the "circulating" money.

>>19227125
being able to control the supply of money (and therefore real interest rates) in the short term is really important for keeping an economy stable. You do not want an economy where inflation and interest rates are controlled by gold speculation.

>>19226609
If you don't wanna starve, don't listen to commies.

>>19226628
Is he retarded? Literally everyone is talking about the economy needing young workers to pay for the elderly and literally everyone’s solution to the problem of overpopulation is female education. Do people honestly pay to go to uni to listen to this stuff?

>>19226901
corbyn got kneecapped by the blairite wing of labour

There is literally more money than there is things to buy with said money.
If everyone tries to buy everything at once would we have something akin to a bang crash when everyone wants to cash out?

>>19228194
>There is literally more money than there is things to buy with said money.
marx says the opposite

>>19228194
First of all this is a theoretical question that couldn’t happen in a real world scenario.

But in this kind of scenario prices would rise fast causing demand to drop off.

Also remember that just like money can be created it can also be destroyed. All the government has to do is to raise taxes and interest rates. Reducing debt is the same thing as reducing money.

In a fiat system money and debt are the same thing.

>>19227840
>pound
>commie

>>19228135
True. Same shit everywhere. The people aren’t allowed even a slightly left representative in these sham democracies, *dumbocracies*