/lit/ - Literature

>>19195883
>existence is meaningless because...it just is ok!

>>19195908
What meaning does it have other than the one that you define for yourself.

>argument is false because... it just is ok!

>>19195908
An eternity has passed before your birth and yet it all felt like an instant to you. So why you're fixated on "meaning" when all will be lost in dust and another eternity will dawn on you.

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

>>19195940
Did you write it? Nice.

>>19195883

Nihilism is good
It makes people behave more honestly

>>19195928
>implying personal meaning isn't real

>>19196345
>implying coping is enough

>>19196345
Never said it wasn't.

>>19195883
Nihilism isn't bad, it is simply incorrect.

>>19196351
>implying finding meaning is a cope
You're starting from the premise that nihilism is correct.

>>19196344
I prefer a world of altruistic lairs than honest misanthropes.

>>19195883
It's a childish way of viewing the world. Instead of doing serious inquiry into the difficult problems and questions of the universe, you pretend there is no solution because this scenario doesn't require you to do anything. It's the simple notion that "if I don't see it, it doesn't see me". It's easier to pretend there's no solution because if there is a solution, it requires you to put actual effort into the problems you complain so much about. A solution holds you accountable for your future and your happiness. Nihilism is the most complicated way of pretending that the answers to our questions don't exist simply because they are too difficult for you to answer.

>>19196358
You are starting from the opposite. Why would personal meaning be anything but a cope?

Ok, my logic is that meaning defined and experienced by a temporary subject is practically worthless when compared to vast nothingness that surrounds it objectively.

>>19196393
> meaning is worthless
> defines the universe and the "nothingness" using the concept of meaning
You're whole ideology is based on the concept of meaning existing in the first place. How do you apply meaning or meaninglessness to things without an underlying belief in meaning in the first place? If nothing means anything, then wouldn't applying meaning to meaning itself be paradoxical to the original statement?

>>19196393
That's not logical though. You've simply decided that the vast unconscious nothingness is of more value than the temporary subjects capable of generating meaning. But who is that vast nothingness valuable to?

>>19195883
> BECAUSE IT JUST IS, OKAY!!!
yes

>>19196351
>implying it isn't

>>19196370
It would seem you're attenuating nihilism to a pedestrian degree. Eating, sleep, shitting and fucking is your primary biological imperative; anything to the contrary is of ancillary concern. This creates a problem in the modern world, where as all of these needs can be satiated with ease; not only, but the abolition of religion has reduced existential outlets. All this not only lead to inertia, but suicide.

This is why the western world is as it is; all primary needs meet and few heteronomous causes leading down the road to perdition. You have a society of people living like hermits, playing video games and watching television with no reason to do otherwise - work included; on the other hand, you have people that have placed all their chips into the political machine, dogmatic fervor and all - the only source of heteronomy left. Trooning, gender cascade, political extremism, feminism, race realism, furries, bronies: all attempt to find meaning in a meaningless world.

We're living nihilism on a societal level, in spades.

I believe that's Shakespeare, can't remember where from

>>19196578
>>19196337
Forgot to quote the post

>>19196553
>We're living nihilism on a societal level
Extremely retarded. We're living in post-Christian humanism. Like Rome when Christianity started penetrating into its fabric.

>>19196605
>We're living in post-Christian humanism

Precisely the point; we live in a society that satiates all our individual needs. What follows is idleness, then cogitation, then realization - the realization that you existence is idle and goals hedonistic. What follows that is our hubristic tendency toward existential dread.

>>19195908
surely you must be able to tell us what meaning there is then

>>19196833
passion

>>19196363
that's because you're a pathetic faggot who was raised by domineering women

>>19196836
>not being raised by domineering women makes you a nihilist
wtf I love my mom now

>>19196411
Inherent meaning is literally impossible in my view. Even if there was a god who had a set of rules that you get sent to hell for breaking or heaven for following, that's just another factor to influence your own decisions like how touching a hot stuff burns your hand so you probably won't do it (and no one is saying *that* would consititute the meaning of life).

>>19196841
I love my mommy too but I put her in her place when I need to, my dad is based and knows life is meaningless, as do all the other male influences in my life

>>19195883
No, it's because it's the laziest midwit ideology there is. It tries to sound deeper and more intelligent than it actually is

>>19196850
*hot stove

>>19196813
I welcome humanity ascent towards its roots. The same existential dread which our ancestors once felt is getting fried up again. In the warmth of this dread we feel our lost primitive wonder. We're standing on the brink an other mad epoch.

>>19196855
No it doesn't, it's just a one line statement. No one is 'just' a nihilist, everyone has plenty of opinions and isms on many different things.

>>19196854
they sound like sad men, these male influences. What makes one go on if one does not see, or atleast hallucinate, a light at the end of the tunnel?

>>19196855
It seems you've misunderstood what Nihilism is.

>>19196862
Then I don't think you've ever met a true nihilist.

Talking with a nihilist goes one of two ways: either they really don't care about anything, therefore making them useless or they actually have moral stances, therefore negating any sort of "meaninglessness" they might believe in. If nothing matters, why care about doing good or bad in the world?

>>19196866
>"What makes you not kill yourself if you don't think there is a better life after you die?"
You really are stupid.

>>19196873
Enlighten me, then

>>19195883
kill yourself on live right now

>>19196884
Because most of so called "nihilists" are retards. It is so embarrassing that Philosophical Pessimist often get lumped with these cunts.

>>19196888
No, you are stupid. You seem to deliberately misunderstand my point. What is the point of doing anything if it is entirely futile and has no capacity of any relevance or positive influence whatsoever?

>>19196892
If a nihilist has no reason to live then he also has no reason to die.

>>19196884
Nothing matters in some kind of silly metaphysical way, like the universe actually gives a shit about us. Plenty of things matter to us situationally.
>nihilism means not caring about anything
No idea where this retarded meme came from, that's no where close to the truth and isn't even possible unless you're literally braindead and on life support.

>>19196897
Then why do they go on and on about how terrible life is?

>>19196895
For an infinite number of temporary and situational reasons, retard. I'm going to go get coffee because I like the feeling it gives me in the morning.

>>19196900
>>nihilism means not caring about anything
If this isn't the case then you can't call yourself a nihilist. Just a call yourself a moralistic humanist.

>>19196893
Then fucking explain what it actually is. I've had this convo a million times and not once has the "true nihilist" given me a solid explanation

>>19196905
every reason is situational you absolute imbecile lol

>>19196902
A true nihilist wouldn't make any grandiose statements. You're talking Philosophical Pessimists.

>>19196913
What would a true nihilist do with their lives?

>>19196906
First of all, I am call myself whatever I want and you can't stop me. More importantly, no, you're just a retard who thinks some ifunny meme you saw one time counts as a definition.

>>19196911
Yes, thank you for accurately explaining nihilism.

>>19196915
Whatever they want, retard. They don't have to follow your stupid ideas of what they should do. That's the whole point.

>>19196919
>actually everything is nihilism
good job retard, you're just a midwit dogmatist playing arbitrary favourites

>>19196910
A True nihilist would simple negate everything, even the possibility of the effort to negate anything. But you know for some reason humans just can't shut the fuck up. If some cunt start babbling about this or that he stops being a nihilist. If you're truly a nihilist you will die from starvation, even refusing to move a single finger.

So nihilism isn't really possible.

>>19196910
You've gotten it a hundred times in this thread, it means not believing in absolute morality and *inherent* meanings in life. That's it.

>>19196921
So they do whatever they want to do, unless they want to make grandiose statements? at last, I see

>>19196900
If nothing has inherent/given meaning, tell me, why the absolute fuck would I care about anything? What's the upside?

>Plenty of things matter to us situationally
Here's an example: every human tries to avoid pain. In that situation, your interest lies in your own self-interest and your instinct to avoid pain. That's something that matters to you situationally.

Okay... I still don't understand what you're trying to say in regards to nihilism with that concept

>>19196923
No I just get baited into arguing with extreme retards like you who can't understand a basic concept. I don't use the word 'nihilism' outside of these shitty threads, it's like going around making your identity about how you think the sky is blue.

>>19196915
Die from starvation after coming to the conclusion of nihilism.

>>19196916
Nice egoist attitude there you have it bro.

>>19196916
> I am call myself whatever I want and you can't stop me.
Lmao and nihilists wonder why we don't take them seriously

>>19196926
Yes I am drinking coffee right now because I believe doing so fulfills the higher meaning of life, not because I just want to.

>>19196935
If nihilists only care about purelt situational reasons, and every reason is purely situational, then everyone is a nihilist, which is patently untrue

>>19196930
I'm not that retard, they can make whatever grandiose statements they want. This really should not be a complicated concept.

>>19196939
This is existentialism 101. You're not a nihilist but an individualist.

>>19196943
sounds like hedonism more than anything

>>19196937
That's why you make threads crying about us every day

>>19196942
Everyone is a nihilist, not everyone is a Nihilist (registered trademark of Raskalnikov trench coat co.)

It's a very simple concept that you guys are desperately trying to misunderstand

>>19196926
That's what I'm trying to get at. The whole "point" of nihilism is that there is no point (and not only that but that giving yourself meaning is also meaningless), so the logical conclusion is literally killing yourself. Because if there is no point, why even stay in this human meat sack you hate so much? If you dont off yourself because of your family and friends then you actually care about their feelings, therefore giving meaning to something outside of yourself.

>Meaning does not exist!
>What do you mean to tell me by that?
>REEEEEEEEEEE

>>19196956
Prove it. Show me how everyone is akshually a nihilist that isn't willing to admit it

>>19196944
>>19196948
There's a lot of overlap between these concepts. I go with 'egoism' myself, it's just a more fleshed-out and less implicitly edge approach to the basic premise of nihilism.

>>19196902
>Then why do they go on and on about how terrible life is?

>>19196902 #
>Then why do they go on and on about how terrible life is?
What are you even talking about?

>>19196928
>not believing in absolute morality
Again, midwit take. This meme about "hey, it's okay for indians to decapitate little kids's heads down a hill for the god of wheat because it's just their culture" is stupid propaganda. Maybe in the nuances of cultural differences I could agree there is no absolute morality.

But in terms of human actions, there are actions that make you a better person and actions that don't. That's just a fact. So yes, there is absolute morality unless you're a psychopath.

>inherent meanings
That's the age long debate. I'm not saying it exists but that as a default, humans will make their own meaning or try and search for inherent meaning. However, the fact that humans, unlike other animals, gravitate towards that inherent meaning gives us reason to believe there is a higher power out there.

>>19196959
Nihilism doesn't mean "I hate life", that's a whole separate issue. Sure, most of them think/claim to think that, and it's a very common philosophical belief about the nature of life, but you can be a nihilist and enjoy life or at least think it's not worth going through the trouble of ending

Who are some actual Nihilistic Philosophers? Do they even exist?

>>19196949
>kills someone
>someone calls you a murderer
>"actually, you've got it all wrong. Literally everything you've heard about murder is wrong and I'm right"

>>19196970
Yes, every retard with a nihilist label is an egoist larping for edgelord points because that term is so mainstream. Even that egoist will stop being an egoist when he will start babbling about muh greater purpose of humanity and collective meaning. Then he will become a humanist.

>>19196956
>Everyone is a nihilist, not everyone is a Nihilist (registered trademark of Raskalnikov trench coat co.)
Elaborate, please?

>>19196994
>Who are some actual Nihilistic Philosophers?
All inorganic matter is a Nihilist philosopher.

>>19196967
That's obviously not what I'm saying, retard. They're unknowingly nihilists because they haven't really thought about what they mean by "meaning", I touched on it here >>19196850 (hot stove not stuff lol), even in these beliefs where there are higher powers it still just comes down to "do this and it'll benefit you in the goals you already have", and even if god personally told you what the meaning is that's still just another subjective value judgement from one perspective that you could take or leave.

>>19196990
Fair enough, I just think that that version of nihilism is "nihilism lite". Finding the beauty in life despite being cynical is literally trying to find SOME meaning, which is what nihilism says is useless.

I personally believe there is inherent meaning but at the same time, not at a cosmic level. I guess I could agree with cosmic nihilism but at a human level that shit just doesn't fly with me. If you have a conscience, you WILL try to find meaning

>>19196986
>it's okay
No it doesn't mean "it's okay", retard. It means there isn't some external power declaring its value, it's up to human beings to decide how to handle it. 'no morals' applies to me as well, I'm not bound to not kill them for killing children by any philosophy or idea of 'consistency'.

>>19197007
I don't think I read them though.

>>19197015
The difference is you (and many others here) are defining nihilism by what a few retards on reddit who call themselves nihilists say and do and I'm going by the actual definition. They're just completely different things.

>>19197025
But you're not refuting anything I'm saying. Saying "there's no absolute morality or inherent meaning" without wanting to expand more on it is not an argument. I made you the case against that definition of nihilism and all you can say is "oh, you're thinking of ledditors, not actual nihilists". Which, again, isn't an actual argument

>>19197016
Then you're arguing for absolute morality. If you believe cutting off kids's head is bad and some cultures do that, you're assigning absolute morality to human actions. It doesn't matter whether there's a power behind it or not. There are bad actions for humans and good actions. There's literally no argument against that

>>19197019
Just stare and they will teach you.

>>19197042
Okay so it seems like your actual argument comes down to "looking for meaning through beauty" and I will concede that if that is an inherent meaning, it's not really nihilism. There's a lexical gap here for someone who is sort of "an agnostic" to meaning, "nihilist" implies you're decided against the concept of inherent meaning but you could think there is/may be some inherent meaning out there without being sure and being able to say what it is. But that's as far as I'll go, there's no "meaning" that anyone believes in that actually makes sense by how we define inherent meaning if you analyze it.

In any case, that's not what I'm doing. I don't look for inherent meaning in things like beauty, I openly look for temporary and situational meaning. I'm not an emotional teenager "finding himself", I'm an adjusted adult who is used to this.

>>19197051
The argument is I know it's just me enforcing what I like and don't like. There's no pure good and pure bad, it's just things that are fucked up enough that they can almost universally break through to our natural instincts.

>>19197051
I want to add that I think you should make a point of seeing liberal autism that was loosely inspired by a philosophical concept and the concept itself as different things, liberals bastardize all of these to an absurd level because they are retards.

>NIHILISM GOOD BECAUSE... IT JU- WAIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING NO YOU CAN'T DO THINGS I DON'T LIKE
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN IF THERE ARE NO OBJECTIVE VALUES MY SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS DON'T MATTER RENDERING EVERYTHING I SAY NIL?

>>19197095
I'm a nihilist and I think it's ridiculous to call nihilism "good" lol

>>19197101
>I'm a nihilist
No you're not.

>>19197118
I'm sorry you feel that way

>>19197142
Now you're being an empathic humanist, cool.

>>19197151
>doing something proves you have an autistic moral value system you consulted beforehand that made you do it
this is projection, mate

>>19197169
No, projection I am telling you about the philosophical basis of your beliefs. As I have said earlier that a true nihilist will die of starvation after coming to the conclusion of nihilism. You're an egoist or a humanist.

If everyone can find their own meaning doesnt that imply there is a sort of inherent meaning to life? Or are some actually incapable of finding their own meaning? Are they the nihilist masters?

>>19196986
>So yes, there is absolute morality unless you're a psychopath
So psychopaths are excepted from absolute moralities,and there is actually no absolute morality after all?

>>19197179
Yes, I am an egoist. Egoism is founded on the tangible basis of nihilism.

>>19197258
Yes, but your egoism negates your nihilism so you can't claim to be a nihilist any more.

>>19195940
Wow, anon, this is really good. you wrote this?

>>19197301
That's the magic of Shakespeare bro

>>19196833
Whatever I want it to mean to me.

>>19197292
No it doesn't and even if I did I'm an egoist so I can claim whatever I want, lol!

>>19197310
okay based, we're on the same page minus how we define nihilism then

>>19197311
Then you're still cucked by useless spooks and you're stuck in a feedback loop.

>>19197316
um, no??

>>19197306
yes, it does sound sort of shakespearean. very nice work

>>19195883
O. K.
Nihilism doesn't exist.

>>19197529
>Nihilism doesn't exist.

>>19195883
What is Nihilism?

>>19196578
Macbeth Act V Scene V

>>19198275
baby don't discourse me
don't discourse me
no more

>>19196370
>Nihilism
Doesn't mean you just give up. You still have to live, eat, sleep, do the basic human needs. Anything outside of those basic needs are copes and wants. What problems and solutions are you actually talking about?

>>19196932
Boy oh boy how are this bad at reading mate? He said the universe doesn't care about YOU but YOU still care and feel. YOU have needs as a living human being.

Humans give meaning,the universe has no meaning. Without us on this rock through space it would just be empty space devoid of meaning. Meaning and purpose are human inventions.

>>19198950
Why you're separating humanity from universe?

>>19196932
I don't know how to respond to that because that was just a stream of consciousness without a point. I'm not even trying to insult you, that was just unintelligible.

>>19195883
why don't you kill yourself instead of posting then

>>19197001
>everyone will agree with me in the end
okay retard

>>19198961
spend about 20 times as much time thinking before you post as you currently do

>>19195883
I don't need a reason to want to live. Love life and be not afraid of death, for death is just another beginning.

>>19196357
What if it is, though?
That's my whole problem. What if there is a definite point to existing and we in our hubris have ruled it nonexistent?

Is there a such thing as agnostic nihilism? Like I there could be a purpose but I may never see it?

>>19199670
Just because there isn't a word for it doesn't mean it's not "a thing", fucking servile child. I already mentioned it here, anyway >>19197068

Just zoom, bro.

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