/lit/ - Literature

>>19188246
No, but Ligotti himself does a good job of capturing it. Lol imagine if you looked like him.

His non-fiction is scary. As for the short stories: no. They are great, but only basedboys feel scared by cosmic horror.

>>19188246
More pussy ass faggots that haven't gone through Ego Death and are clinging on to a precipitous reality of death and decay instead of just being Confident.

>>19188246
I’ve only read one thing by him, and that was the Gas Station Carnivals. The beginning part about the actual carnivals was interesting and imaginative, it had a peculiar ambience to it, but the ending was a bunch of goofy creepypasta bullshit. However, I understand that story is neither his most popular nor his most acclaimed, so I’m open to recommendations for what else to read from him

Many people are too low IQ to fully comprehend the horror. In fact it serves as an IQ ceiling of sorts, where above a certain level, you don't breed

>>19188697
The Frolic is creepy

>>19189575
The character in the Frolic is pretty much a proto-Joker (from Batman)

>>19188559
>They are great, but only basedboys feel scared by cosmic horror.
Based, cosmic horror is an oversimplification of the infinity that philosophers have spoken of for a long time, it’s not scary so much as it is humbling. Though being humble is quite scary for most modern people

>>19189563
Midwit take

>>19189608
I'm in the top 1% of IQs, tested in school. Now you can get really mad and tell me I'm an idiot or that IQ isn't a measure of intelligence like the moron you are

>>19188697
Gas station carnivals is one of his best imo. You can't fully appreciate the ending if you are not already familiar with his philosophy, also true for the rest of his work.
His Lovecraft homages might be immediately appealing to you:
Last feast of Harlequin
Sect of the idiot
Masquerade of a dead sword
Nethescurial

>>19189600
>proto-Joker
Not at all. The Joker is a character from the 1940s, based on a character from the 1860s. The Frolic does not predate all that.

I like his stories and he's undoubtedly a great writer but I don't agree with his nihilistic philosophy.

>>19188246
this sounds like a high school book report on Heart of Darkness

>>19188246
All of these Jew-worshiping neocons and also liberals are subversive nihilists. Thanks for proving it with that image.
They think they're smart, but at the end of the day, they're just a bunch of depraved lunatics and edgelords who will eat shit in hell alongside all of the Jews.

>>19188246
Why horror? existence isn't a "nightmare", it just is. It's neither good nor bad, it has no affiliation towards either or anything in-between. I feel like people who view life through such a dark lens are just choosing to apply that darkness to the absolute neutrality of the universe. It's quite silly if you ask me.

>>19190116
maybe people have different experiences than you

>>19190126
Then they're just viewing all of reality through their narrow perspective of the world. Of course bad things happen, and existence isnt something you could call happy, but to claim that existence is a "nightmare" is just a bit much if you ask me. Just because you have had some bad times in life doesnt mean the universe is an endless nightmare of evil and torment.
Sometimes good things happen, sometimes bad things happen, there is no cosmic reason for any of it, the universe isn't evil.

>>19190139
maybe you're viewing reality through your own narrow perspective

>>19190165
Care to elaborate on that?
I try not to, I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume the universe doesn’t have a will and doesn’t fit the description of “nightmare” but whatever.
Maybe I could agree that real life is a type of mask, as the OP pic states, but I don’t think this mask covers up some kind of evil nightmare. It’s neutral. You’re choosing to view it as evil.
Think of it this way, a meditational practice is to remove interpretation and emotions from sensations. When you hurt yourself, your nerves send information to your brain saying that it’s injured, then your brain assigns a negative emotion to that, it’s survival instincts. But if you simply remove the emotion that your mind assigns to the sensation, you realise that it’s just a sensation and nothing more. How do you think monks are able to walk barefoot across hot coal? They remove the emotion and interpretation from the sensation. I honk it’s good to view the Universe the same way. Any emotion or interpretation you assign to it is something you yourself assigned, it isn’t what the universe truly is.

>>19190202
*think, not honk

>>19190202
people's experiences paint their perception and i think it is largely out of our control. maybe small shifts here and there with effort or adjustment. monks can block out pain and achieve feats because their experiences lead them there, just as your experiences lead you to a detached perspective, just as mine lead me to where i am. i don't believe there is escaping who we are

>>19188246
Ligotti is one if ten living writers(along Don DeLillo and Pynchon) to be published in Penguin classics. You can disagree with his philosophy but he is one the greatest American writer. He is defiantly up there with Poe, Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith etc.

>>19188246
no. that's pseudo-intellectual nonsense but it's delightful and fun.

>>19190202
You're applying your own narrow view of indifference towards universe.

>>19190029
so you're saying their existential despair will be rewarded with a state of existence of eternal torment and horror.
sounds to me like they're quite justified in seeing existence as a hopeless nightmare, then

>>19190202
>How do you think monks are able to walk barefoot across hot coal?
ARE THEY?
in any case, if they were, I would think this depends on something more than "removing the emotion and interpretation from the sensation".

>>19188246
His work is derivative of the originals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9OhYroLN0

>>19190568
It really is just that. Of course it’s not as easy is just thinking “lol it’s just a sensation lol” it of course takes much, much practice. But it’s a useful skill to have, like when you start to feel ill you can realise that the sensations your feeling are actually neutral, so it might make you feel a bit better. Again, it takes a bit of practice but it’s worth it.

>>19188246
Most of his stories I've read involve, and derive most of their suspense from deception. Usually the characters are involved in some degree of self deception as well.
The pessimists would probably assert that everyone is essentially deceiving themselves in order to go on, so I think Ligotti is largely communicating what hes trying to
>>19189605
>cosmic horror is an oversimplification of the infinity that philosophers have spoken of
This seems like a reductive view to me, theres many more ways of communicating insignificance or powerlessness than just difference in scale. Maybe you'd start calling works along those lines Existential Horror instead, but I think that's a very blurry distinction

>>19191352
really anon? so that makes them impervious to burns?

>>19192578
Not him but they aren't impervious to burns, I believe this is accomplished by shifting your weight very deliberately through the motions, such that no part of your skin has long enough or enough pressure on the coals to burn or blister.
Its seen as a feat of presence of mind because it is basically dangerous, and requires you not to panic or stiffen in any way to avoid injury

I could kick ligottis ass therefore he is irrelevant.

>>19189620
I like "The Shadow and the Darkness."
Its another good story that makes people understand illness.

>>19189863
He analyzes Heart of Darkness in The Conspiracy Against the Human Race.

>>19193531
He's from Detroit, though.
He'll probably just gauge your eye with a broken Vernor's bottle he keeps in his coat pocket from the eighties when Vernors came in glass bottles.

>>19188559
How is his nonfiction scary? Isn't it just about how pain outweighs pleasure and Rick and Morty-tier nobody asked to be born nonsense?

>>19193589
Never read it but that actually makes sense I guess. The quote they used still seems juvenile compared to Conrad's presentation of the same idea.

>>19193774
The full title of the conspiracy has the subhead "A Contivance of horror", and people seem to keep missing this.
He's well aware what he sounds like, and pulls a really bleak sense of humor from that, honestly it helps to have read some of his other work to really pick up on that tone.
He isn't happy to report all these ideas to you, but you are invited to kind of laugh along in a way, and if you find yourself doing it, well then that might suggest some uncomfortable things to dwell on.
It's more of a self-aware overview of Pessimism than a tract meant to convince you, the idea being you'd know for yourself of you've struggled with these before. And in tracing a brief history of pessimism, some of these ideas have stuck around so long in spite of their unpleasantness because you really cant help but dwell on them

>>19193896
>seems juvenile
Honestly, read Ligotti. He is very purposely like that.
He repeats phrases almost in order to induce cringe, inserts rhymes and whatnot. I'm not going to bat for him or anything, but there is this childish nature in his writing.

Its all the more fucked up when contrasted to what he is writing about. A juxtaposition, I suppose.

I enjoy his stories. Yes sometimes I feel scared by them. I like to get very high in the middle of the night and read him. Mostly though I read for his aesthetic which is really nice to me and my internal imagination. I especially enjoy the lurid (he loves that word) skylines & cities he describes

>>19188246
Ligotti did not write this article by the way. He’s not so conceited if you read interviews of him.

>>19188613
How the fuck is ego death supposed to make you confident? I've experienced ego death on psychedelics multiple times, and I'm still the same loser I was before.

>>19188246
Why doesn't Ligotti just kill himself if he actually believes this?

>>19194020
How do they measure agony?

>>19194020
If you hate yourself and hate life, why would that make you kill yourself? Wouldn't you want to punish yourself with life instead?

>>19194020
Extreme pessimists doubt salvation even in death.

>>19188246
Yes but only if it's read by David Tibet

>>19194020
Idk senpai this charge has been levelled at just about every pessimist ever published, maybe you could read what they've said about it.

>>19194011
Psychedelics are cheating
You have to meditate your mind away to understand

>>19194035
I was wondering the same thing. It's not like they can ask lol.

>>19194226
>maybe you could read what they've said about it
I doubt that will happen.
Most people just say "kys," assume they've won, and run out the clock.

>>19188246
what the fuck? since when, why and how would bill kristol be into thomas ligotti?

>>19194249
asking survivors i guess. even shotgun to head leaves 1 in 100 alive (probably far less than that able to answer questions but still more than zero)

>>19194343
The pandemic has really boosted pessimism.
Take a look at r/antinatalism, it has exploded.

Its like this is the first real challenge some people have faced.

>>19194454
it is. also. world is getting objectively worse and does not seem as though it will get any better for some time. this creates anti-natalism. as bob dylan said, something about worst crime & fear of bringing children into the world

>>19193595
Kek he's probably strapped

>>19190116
>>19190202
Keep in mind Ligotti has suffered from several debilitating mental and physical disorders all his life, the second of which has come close to killing him a few times
>>19194020
Same excuse every pessimist gives, he doesn't do it because his mom and brother would be sad. In one of the last stories he's written he's pretty much begging to be euthanized also

>>19194454
>The pandemic has really boosted pessimism.
yeah this. its becoming noticeable in real life. well at least here.

>>19194731
>In one of the last stories he's written he's pretty much begging to be euthanized also
sauce? I wanna read it.

>>19194684
I picked a weird time to drop pessimism and antinatalism.
Now it just seems incomplete.

>>19194745
https://files.catbox.moe/0wtdeo.pdf
First story of the two, it's completely obvious the narrator is just himself

>>19194789

>>19194684
>world is getting objectively worse
We live in an era of unprecedented freedom and technological progress , there is more our species than ever before and we've actually made immense forward progress in combatting pollution and climate change compared to the 19th and early 20ty centuries. This is the best time to be a human being. Keep in mind how much more miserable your ancestors were the next time you complain about your life. Most of the people here are bitter, sheltered people who have had the benefit of modern technology keep them around. Ligotti is the same. In previous generations he would've just fucking died young and stopped moping around

I wish more people actually cared about his stories than just about his crummy attitude to life

>>19194860
Well, his most popular work is his one non-fiction.
Its not surprising his fiction is taking a back seat.

>>19193493
okay so it's a trick, not a miracle we're talking about then, but I'm almost more doubtful. any concrete information on this, the physical aspect of it? I know under certain conditions you can stick your hand in extremely hot molten metal and not get hurt and so on, but walking on coals? is this something there's any info on beyond monks doing monk things?

>>19194827
>Keep in mind how much more miserable your ancestors
this is a massive cope, not in line with reality at all

>>19194199
based

>>19189618
>he thinks being high IQ prevents him from being a midwit
>he thinks that top 1% is high
Kek

>>19194827
ASS

>>19196241
>It's a massive cope to say that technological progress has madd life easier for people who would've fucking died painful, young death or else died of diseases which we didn't know how to treat because fucking germ theory didn't exist then
Leave it to /lit/ NEETS and art major fags to determine the meaning of life lmao

>>19196608
The scienceman strikes again.

>>19194827
Ask me how I know youre an anglo that admires Elon Musk

>>19188246
I honestly can't listen to "I Have a Special Plan for This World" without sniggering

>>19194020
How is the agony number calculated? You can't know how painful a bullet to the head is until you do it, it seems like these calculations are just guesses based on how much pain the person seems to be in, as if an incapacitated person can't feel extreme agony.

>>19188246
>Ligotti
Redpill me on that one story with hermaphrodite.

>>19198017
Purity

>>19194011
You don't exist, nobody exists, and nothing exists, don't even attempt to associate anything in this world with the real when you load in when you wake up. Just see through the textures, see through the code and detach from the screen and understand yourself as all seeing and all knowing, confident in your vision and high power. Having 200 zombies rushing at you in under 10 seconds might be frightening, but experiencing the same thing playing left for dead shouldn't terrify you at all. The same is true with anything, you fly within the open skies of possibilities nearto the all encompassing confident light of the Sun. You then condense yourself into a cloud and precipitate, falling into a puddle prison because you make your suffering and yearning of the human condition into something real and heavy and thus prone to fall. You're the one that's making your suffering and mediocrity real by attaching it to "you" a horrifically flawed and imperfect little drop of rain destined to fall under dark gloomy skies of doubt. Cease this behaviour. Detach from "your" "self" and see the beautiful grandeur of the illuminated world under the light of the Sun. Confidence is like light. We forget that light(weight) and light(illumination) both describe an essential quality less heavy, dense and opaque than even the air itself. Confidence has no weight, it's lighter than you, you metaphysical fatty fatfuck. Stop wondering why you can't fly or even run when you're weighing yourself down.

Know that "you" and everyone around you is a merely biological reality of 80 years of strife and then becoming wormfood. It doesn't matter because it might as well not exist in the larger situation. Strip away all the bullshit and just be confident bro.

>>19194343
Yeah this was my reaction too. Are neocon kikes secrectly just ligotti pilled and hate existence?

>>19198309
Okay UG

>>19194827
People in the past were freer and happier than we are now. Technological progress is meaningless for happiness, because technology is relative when you've never experienced anything other than your current basic standard of living.

>>19198309
Shut the fuck up monad, he's trying his best.

>>19198452
Even if that were so, do you think it was lack of iphones?
My guess is it would be cause by god not having been chased out of every explanation for the natural. I think Neechee was correct that we can't recover from this.

>>19196608
I don't think technological progress made life easier considering we fought two wars of technological hell in order to get to this point. Both World Wars were senseless death, driven by technological advancement.

>>19194343
>>19198394
Kristol and the other Neocons liking Ligotti actually makes a lot of sense given their foreign policy.

>>19188246
Kobo Abe: The Woman in the Dunes.

>>19196368
Wrecked. (You didn't even have to make fun of him for using high IQ as cope for not getting laid).

>>19198452
>People in the past were freer and happier than we are now
Yeah im sure those millions of castrated African slaves sold into the Ottoman Empire had a fucking swell life, must've been great to no understand how germ theory worked and see the Plague of Justinian wipe out literally everyone close to you. Please, the modern luxurious you can afford means you can live like a king.

>>19199673
>Two wars of technological hell
>both world ears were senseless death
No and no. War has always been brutal and disgusting and quixotic visions on the honor and glory of war is purely fictional. War does have an evolutionary purpose , and the Second World War in particular was a war of ideology. The overall technological impact only highlighted facets of war that had already existed. Instead is sacking, raping, and burning an enemy city to the ground while salting the earth beneath it they would just drop a fire bomb raid instead. The intent was always the same, the means is the only thing that changed.

>>19197114
>Anglo
Hispanic mutt
>Admires Elon Musk
He's done about jack shit.

Whenever you see his name/oeuvre posted, just picture his chin in your head

>>19194343
>>19198394
>>19199692
It wasn't written by Kristol or anyone from the Bulwark staff. Bill Ryan, who wrote the piece, is good friends with their cultural editor and he's been writing occasional pieces for them for a year or so now. His writing is great even if the Bulwark is a garbage publication.

>>19200694
That, son, is a healthy Michigan chin.
Solid jawline. 10/10

I wish Ligotti would put out one more collection of stories but I don't think it will ever happen and he'll just die. He's probably one of the most interesting authors in terms of observing the evolution of his writing style and themes

Anymore literary short story horror writers and surreal horror writers?

>>19201367
Clark Ashton Smith

>>19196232
I did this anon. You just literally walk and sweat on your soles does all the work for you. No miracles or even willpower involved.

>>19192578
Are you fucking stupid? Is that a serious question? They aren’t fucking impervious to damage you Neanderthal, they’re just able to endure the pain more effectively than most other humans. Haven’t you ever seen those pictures of monks meditating while being burned alive? They aren’t just not feeling it, of course they are, you’re so fucking stupid. Fucking dunce.

>>19201570
Damn you can't endure your emotions. Learn a thing or two from monks.

People who honestly don't think reality isn't worth living in aren't worth arguing with and should just cull themselves.

>>19201613
I'm profoundly pessimistic and misanthropic but I'm self aware about it and realize that's because I'm mentally ill and have been dealt a bad hand in life. I don't project my worldview on others like these pessimist pholosophers do and I know most people would say life is fine and worth living, what does that make me then

>>19201613
Thank you for your motivation
I am going to kill myself.

>>19194020
My friend Dan must have read that list. Shotgun from Walmart an hour drive away. His sister found him. She died from cancer twi years ago.

>>19201367
Brian Evenson, Robert Aickman, Ramsey Campbell, Mark Samuels

>>19202564
Sad

>>19202638
Yeah well he kept it secret from anyone who would have stopped him. He had a plan and he followed through on it.
Still remember we were playing Heavy Rain, and there was this part in the game where the main character has to decide whether to take poison or not, I told him, "don't take it, you can find your son without it." He REALLY wanted to take it, and was visibly angry at me when I convinced him not to. If not for me he would have gotten the Five Trials Master achievement. Guess he showed me, though.

>>19198309
You are going to exist forever, in either heaven or hell.

As will Ligotti, and everyone who reads these words.

>>19203096
>Heavy Rain
Fuck, this story is getting more sad. The broke me use watch the walkthroughs of Heavy Rain in rainy season. I cried like a bitch. What happened to his sister? She took the despair upon herself? What about you? Are you doing alright anon?

Shit man now that you have reminded me Heavy Rain, I am feeling melancholic all of the sudden and the story that you have told me.....

>>19201570
lmao what a retard

>>19201613
how will that strawman ever recover from being btfo by your screencap? pessimists all over the world are killing themselves right now not because of their philosophy, but because they’ve been destroyed so badly by this post. great job!

>>19194789
Okay, finally read.

You have to admit that was pretty funny. What makes you think he wants to be euthanized? It can't be him saying "I WANT TO BE ANESTHETIZED TO DEATH" every few paragraphs.

btw, I just found out Ligotti's publisher is right down the road from me.

>>19203140
I don't want to sound egotistical, but I think of myself as a very spiritually healthy person. Part of that is being honest, or trying to be when I remember to stop being so afraid. I'm still angry, because he was a smart guy and would have found some way for him to get to the next phase of his life, I think he was having some delusions as well and didn't want to get treated. But life is pretty good for me and I'm very, very grateful for what I have. His death helped prepare my for my own father's death 7 years later.
His sister had breast cancer. I think it (finding his body, not breast cancer) really messed her up but she was still mostly a happy person and got to travel around to beautiful places for the last part of her life. His parents are boomers and trying to envision the reality of both of their kids dying in a positive light; I don't want to judge them as I don't know what I would do in their situation.

>>19188246
I'm reading Teatro Grottesco and it's awful.

Ligotti refutes himself.by honing his craft and creating art, he established meaning for himself, not to mention the steak dinners he's had from his writing career. His brand of pessimism is pure affectation.

>>19188246

Doesnt the Bible already do a good job of that?

>>19204876
He was almost exclusively published in small-press editions from 1985 to 2013, not sure how many "steak dinners" there really were. Not to mention he's from Detroit, which is enough to turn anyone a bit morbid.

>>19204876
His stories are written out of pure artistic creative impulse, not churned out for money like best selling authors. He's also gotten increasingly depressive and pessimistic as the years go on, he used to be somewhat more... not quite cheerful but more lively maybe

>>19205514
I think he got tired of writing monsters

>>19193595
>Detroit
No wonder he's so depressed. Why would anyone live in Detroit? How would anyone live in Detroit?

>>19205832
He should go to Miami, unironically.

>>19206400
He moved to Florida many years ago