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/lit/ - Literature

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19184368 No.19184368 [Reply] [Original]

Too few book threads on the front page right now. Let's have a Ulysses thread.

I'm rereading it for the first time in a few years. Just finished "Proteus." It's interesting how the different perspectives of the various characters weave in and out of the narrative. Obviously Stephen is dominant, since he's on of the main characters, but the couple digging for cockles gets metanarrative focus, too. Not to mention that we get glimpses into the perspectives of all the people Stephen met in Paris.

Also, the engagement with Berkeley is neat.

>> No.19184479

>>19184368
what about the people Stephen met in Paris? are they representing real people like Hem, Pound, and the likes?

>> No.19184493
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19184493

I'm not sure. That's because I'm no longer sure how much bleed-in there is between Stephen and Joyce by the time of Ulysses. In Portrait it's pretty clear that Stephen is Joyce. By this point, I'm less sure that Stephen is meant to be Joyce. I think Joyce has grown beyond Stephen, to a certain extent, which is why Stephen becomes the novel's junior protagonist as Bloom takes the main role.

>> No.19184499

>>19184493
Mean to quote >>19184479

>> No.19184673

I always love that when writing this Joyce was still bitter as fuck towards Gogarty and tried to make Buck Mulligan into an antagonist

>> No.19185655

>>19184493
was Joyce a cuck ?

>> No.19186453

>>19184493
Kevin Egan = Joseph Casey

>how much bleed-in there is between Stephen and Joyce by the time of Ulysses
Don't be fucking stupid.

>I think Joyce has grown beyond Stephen
>which is why Stephen becomes the novel's junior protagonist as Bloom takes the main role
You really have no idea what the book is huh?

>> No.19187141
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19187141

>>19186453
Why don't you tell us what it is then, Anon?

>> No.19187704
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19187704

>>19187141
What does Joyce... do... in Proteus?

>> No.19189194

What's Ulysses?

>> No.19189329

>>19184368
Currently reading, but I don't have enough time with work and school and all that. I'm currently in the Circe chapter, hopefully I'll be able to finish the novel by next week.
I was actually thinking of maybe doing a chart of all the styles parodied on Oxen of the sun, would anyone be interested? I'd maybe include some other important works referenced in the chapter.

>> No.19189345

>>19189329
I'd be interested, Anon. That could be useful.

>> No.19189349

>>19189329
>all the styles
all the authors and books*

>> No.19189466

>>19189345
Might take some edibles and do it tomorrow night.
Does any anon have any recommendation on where to do charts? I tried to make one in photoshop but I quit because I couldn't get all the book covers to be symmetrically in the page.

>> No.19189498

The Ithaca chapter is the height of human beauty. I'm not sure anything else will ever surpass the prose and wordplay.

>> No.19189555
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19189555

>>19184368
Seriously, I'll get to this book one day, but I'm still mucking my way through Portrait of an Artist

>> No.19190577

>>19189349
We all pretend to know that Joyce made fun of smut and cheap romance novels, but isn't his fake romantic style not very enjoyable and probably also unironically celebrated by the author up to the very point where Bloom plays pocket pool ?

>> No.19190610

>>19184368
this dude, Pound, and Eliot seriously fucked the english language.

>> No.19190723

>>19184493
>In Portrait it's pretty clear that Stephen is Joyce
For me the end of Portrait made it very clear that Stephen is not Joyce. By that point in his life Joyce had Nora, and he went into Europe together with her. Stephen, on the other hand, balks at a crucial moment and does not ask Emma to accompany him, or even confess his feelings to her.
In many ways Stephen is all the failures of Joyce; he is what could have been, but unlike most might-have-beens, Stephen is not a man from the best of possible worlds, the James that had the courage, the fiction that succeeded where reality did not, but the very opposite: Stephen is what Joyce could have became had he not had the courage.
Joyce had a fulfilling relationship and became a respected novelist. As you note, this is all the more apparent in Ulysses where Stephen is still single and teaches at a grammar school, his dreams unattained. Still, I would say that Joyce has grown beyond Stephen already in Portrait.

>> No.19191637

>>19185655
Yes. He was spiritually cucked. You remember the story of the wife in The Dead, right?

>> No.19192281

I dunno anon ppl seem to dislike this novel due to its complex literary style, I don't blame Joyce for it tho xD. Any guide to where to start with Joyce and how to get an acquaintance with his literary style ?

>> No.19192483

>>19184368
Proteus is the best chapter. Or, it's at least up there with Sirens. When Stephen walks along sandymount strand, isolating the senses of perception, analyzing and synthesizing--cutting and editing--them into a kind of "movie you're always watching", I am reminded of my younger, more autistic self. That feeling of cozy estrangement hits me so fucking hard

>> No.19192659

>>19192281
Finnegans Wake is like a fairy tale

>> No.19192764

>>19192281
a portrait of the artist as a young man or just get into ulysses, i read ulysses first and didnt have any problems with it.