/lit/ - Literature

Truer images were never posted.

/book/

Isn't that Sir Isaac Newton? How is science literature?

>>1914827
And you've got sculpture and film in there too!

>>1914821
Sticky please. INB4 Scifi/fantasy/comic book nerds come in and say that everything written is literature. Fuck off you fat pimply idiots.

>i know that feel is /lit/

fuck right off

Just ignore this cunt - he's already got a life ban with that popfaggio name, eventually some kindly mod will do it again.

In the meantime, just ignore him, for fuck's sake. Don't bite the hook.

>the bible...not atheist literature...

>the great gatsby
>anything but a vastly overrated child's book

pick none

>DFW is lit
>Dune is not lit

0/10

>>1914844
i wonder what it's like to be so uncultured

>>1914842
>>1914843
>>1914844

You morons, you are giving this prick exactly what he wants. He's grinning and fapping at your buthurt.

>>1914831
1. it's voltaire, not newton
2. the sculpture represents philosophy
3. the 500 day pic represents the hardships of a relationship

>>1914856

i am not "butthurt". i am conversing on an imageboard

look at gaiman's steely gaze!

>I know that feeling bro
>literature related

NIGGA WHAAAAAAA?

>500 days of summer is /lit/

i know you're trolling and blahblahblah but some people actually feel like that movie is something intellectual. i watched it and found myself drowning in the enormous wave of OMGSOTUMBLRINDIE that was washing over me

>neutral milk hotel

>>1914833

>calling people "nerds" on fucking 4chan

>literature
>not /lit/
What?

>>1914880
arrogance
cowardice
trollin

STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS
STAGOLEE HAS TWO DADS

bump

>>1914826
>Implying /book/ isn't unbelievably shitty

hey OP, I love your lists! I also love how you put irrelevant subtext underneath the "bad" list!

shit was so classy!

>>1914995
>Implying anyone ever posts there.

>3. the 500 day pic represents the hardships of a relationship

OP confirmed for fag who is not only ignorant of what good literature is, but what good cinema is.

>>1915087
i guess now is about that time of night when the nocturnal neckbeards wake up
not enough wizardy in 500 days for you?

>reading is not lit
>SWED, Stag.

So Herbert and Gaiman, two of the greatest authors of the 20th century, are "not lit" just because they happen to include lasers and fairies in their stories, but a book about spoiled rich people being spoiled and rich IS lit? And Hemingway? Really? Hemingway is what Orwell shat out when he was done writing Homage to Catalonia - a two-bit alcoholic hack with his head stuck so far up Stalin's ass it's embarrassing.

A good book is a good book, regardless of the genre. It takes a special kind of uneducated "literati" fucktard to pretend otherwise.

Fuck you, list. I love audiobooks. They're fantastic absorbing material for while I work.

>>1915115
>So Herbert and Gaiman, two of the greatest authors of the 20th century, are "not lit" just because they happen to include lasers and fairies in their stories, but a book about spoiled rich people being spoiled and rich IS lit?
yes

>Hemingway is what Orwell shat out when he was done writing Homage to Catalonia - a two-bit alcoholic hack with his head stuck so far up Stalin's ass it's embarrassing.
i'm not even gonna begin pointing out what's wrong with that sentence

>>1914821
>/lit/
Stuff about books

>not /lit/
Stuff that isn't about books

>>1915126
no you're wrong

old = lit

i see

>>1915095
1. The sun is bright and shining in my time zone friendo. It would seem you're the insomniac here.

2. I don't give a shit if a movie has wizards. I give a shit if it has compelling plot, characters, theme, etc. (500) Days of Summer has none of those. It probably seems pretty deep to a pseudo-hipster who only watches Nick at Night, but trust me, it's not a very good movie.

>>1915115
>Hemingway is what Orwell shat out when he was done writing Homage to Catalonia - a two-bit alcoholic hack with his head stuck so far up Stalin's ass it's embarrassing.

are you really this stupid

>>1915137
>trust me, it's not a very good movie.
unless you get paid to review movies, i'm not going to trust you.
and even if you were paid to review movies i still wouldn't trust you because your opinion is wrong.

>>1915144
Do you really have so little taste?

>>1915150
i think you just might be really stupid, i mean wow

you are retarded

>>1915150
it's not a matter of taste
you're just wrong

WTF audiobooks are literature.
They are just a slower and worse form of reading.

Quent[y]n's just mad that GRRM wrote him into A Dance With Dragons as a horrible weakling and a failure with women (just like real life).

>>1914864

wear's dem niggurs tho?!?!?>

>>1915145
You don't have to trust anyone ever, but that doesn't change the fact that (500) Days of Summer is pretentious, twee and completely mediocre.

>>1915128
>herp it's also my personal namefaggot blog

Voltaire and Dumas are lit but Herbert and gaiman aren't lit? At least be consistent. If you are going to ban writers because they surreptitiously fall into genre classification on the book shelves then ban dumas, browning, Verne, de Bergerac and the decameron because they all deal with the same shit different centuries. Have you read candide? well probably but most likely you havent read his other prose. if we are going to get rid of books purely one genre then a connecticut yankee in king arthurs court as well as a christmas carol are also not lit.

>>1915174

>itaots
oh you!

How about we compromise: anyone can read whatever they want and talk about it here, and in return nobody says things like

>Herbert and Gaiman, two of the greatest authors of the 20th century,

>>1915193

Don't forget Shakespeare. And Robert W. Chambers. And G.K. Chesterton.

>>1915211
Well I assumed his general painting of literature automatically included chesterton, but you are right macbeth =magic therefore sci-fi fantasy, hamlet = ghosts suspense thriller, the tempest = well a lot of stuff. even maybe true crime

>>1915215
And A Midsummer Night's Dream is a straight-up fairy tale.

And then there's an author like Marquez. CLEARLY not literature by /lit's standards.

Conservative detected

no one has any right in complaining about tripfags

you shitheads like getting trolled, you deserve all the shit spam you get.

bump1

correct opinions, op.

I hate how people automatically classify anything Sci Fi or Fantasy or Horror as not literature.

DO NOT REPLY, OP IS QUENTIN

DO NOT REPLY, OP IS QUENTIN

YOU ARE BEING TROLLED, DOG

PLEASE IGNORE THIS THREAD

READ A BOOK INSTEAD

>>1916835

then stop hating it, it won't change.

>mfw the bible as literature

The Bible should go under the heading /toiletpaper/

>>1916835
if it's sci fi as a first and foremost thing, its not lit. people like pkd are lit because they mix it with good writing.

>>1916858
>>1916867

Edgy Atheist are here, guys! Aren't they so fucking delish?

>>1916873

>if it's sci fi as a first and foremost thing, its not lit

What does that even mean? Nothing, that's what.

>>1916875

Why is it edgy to not get your morals from a god that commits multiple genocide, ethnic cleansing etc etc..?

>>1916894
Nowadays it's edgy to be a bible apologist, get with the times brah

Oh, don't forget to add "metathreads" to the not /lit/ category.

>>1916901
>>1916894

No.

The Bible is /lit/ relevant because of its immense influence on the western canon and because of the artistic and poetic merit of the KJV.

You don't have to believe the Odyssey is true to recognize its strength and relevance.

>>1916907

I think it's a shame that a lot of pre-Christian European culture such as Norse Mythology (see The Prose Edda) has been tainted by Christianity or just plain destroyed, as is the case with many pre Christian writings in Old Irish.

That feel is /lit/, oh you 4chong cancer.

>>1916909

No, imbecile, the only reason you can read that shit is its careful preservation by Christian monks. Do you think you would enjoy living in a society run on Viking principles? I have a feeling they might have a problem with your asthma inhaler.

>>1916901
that pic is fucking gay like it was made by someone who watches theamazingatheist or ray william johnson and thinks they're funny, pretty sure you deserve death for posting that

>>1916915

It couldn't be any worse than Christian 'civilisation' after the Roman Empire adopted it and it went from a radical pacifist religion the religion of the ruling class.

>>1916923

You're just confirming that you haven't the remotest idea what you're talking about. Do you know anything about Roman Christianity during the periods of Constantine and Diocletian (who denounced Christianity and went back to the previous persecution policy)? Or are you thinking of this in terms of how people sell out and become less METTOL when they sign to a major label? You think you could survive in the society described in the Prose Edda?

>>1916918

>implying TAA is comparable to utter shit like RWJ

>>1916929
i really hope ur meta trolling cuz if not, you really are not a sentient human, like you are just tiny bird brains for real

>>1916923
Except that christian civilisation gave birth to science and modern technology.

If you think viking paganism would ever give rise to something like that, you're more retarded than I possibly imagined.

>OP posts a completely reasonable picture
>entire thread denounces him as a troll
>this means most of /lit/ is just here for the cheap fantasy books and tripfaggotry
>2011 etc

>>1916925

You deny that the Church became an instrument of oppression around 300 years after it's establishment?

Viking 'civilisation' was no less brutal than Christian 'civilisation', but because they were pagans they obviously have a much worse reputation. Oh, and why the constant references to metal music? If you want a discussion of musical tastes, I mainly listen to classical and folk.

>>1916937

>like you are just tiny bird brains for real

Your profound words have struck deep. I see myself in a completely new light now.

Modern Science developed despite the doctrine of the Church, which had to change its story and beliefs accordingly.

Modern Science developed despite the doctrine of the Church, which had to change its story and beliefs accordingly.

>>1916954

Sorry for double post, internet d/c'd.

>>1916952
>>1916952
It developed because of the church's holding on to greek philosophy and rationalism.

Vikings would have never become philosophers, or studied the ancient greek sciences. All that stuff would have been disregarded in favour of idiotic nature worship, moar shitty stories about odin et al, looting, plundering and raping.

>>1916941

It's not a reasonable picture it's completely fucking stupid.

It's like me making a list of all the TV shows that I consider to be the cancer of the industry and going to /tv/ saying they shouldn't talk about those shows anymore because it's bothering my sensibilities.

>>1914821
Poor troll or Religious Moron? You decide.

>>1916949
wow you really aren't trolling

you seem upset

>>1916959

Why do you keep thinking I want to live in a Viking society? Haven't I said it was brutal? I was complaining about the Christianisation of European culture, which I said was a shame... that's all.

>>1916959
>All that stuff would have been disregarded in favour of idiotic nature worship
As opposed to idiotic sky wizard worship? I prefer vikings, at least their superstition was exciting.

>>1916944

No, the problem here is, I know something about both civilisations. Repeating your one factoid isn't going to help. Educate yourself on what really happened when Constantine adopted Christianity only for Diocletian to un-adopt it, and what followed. Educate yourself on what your life would have been as a Viking.

Classical and folk? Are you one of those 'neo-pagan' morons who listens to shit like Sol Invictus? That's even worse than I imagined.


>>1916938
>>1916959

This.

>>1916975

Nah, more of a Nich Drake fan. I'm certainly not a pagan.

On topic: No doubt the bible has had an impact on western literature, what atheists need to do is produce a body of work that is based on non christian principles.

>>1916968

You claimed the levels of brutality were comparable when they simply weren't.

>>1917004

You're right, Christianity has been far more brutal and enduring. Except for Liberation Theology... those guys were alright. Too bad the US trained thugs shot them all.

So what criterias does books need to fulfill to qualify as /lit/?

>>1917064

The kind "benjamin braddock" likes, clearly.

>>1914821
ftfy

>>1915115
I swear to god I have no idea who Herbert and Gaiman even are and I have a Masters in Literature.

You fucking kids are idiots, learn to separate guilty pleasures from quality...

>>1917086
Then you're obviously a shut-in isolated from mainstream culture.

>>1917086

How can you know they're not quality if you've never even heard of them or examined their works?

>>1917086

You should check out Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman.

>>1917097
My point is that I would have if they were 'two of the greatest authors of the 20th century,' as anon says.

>>1917105
I assumed he implied a "best writers of pulp fiction"

>>1917094
Not at all true, you dumbass sci-fi geeks don't understand that most people are never exposed to this shit because it is completely for huge geeks. This assumption that any sci-fi/fantasy author is taken seriously is ludicrous. Absolutely NO ONE that matters considers their output seriously at all.

I agree with most stuff in there, except american gods. It may come under the fantasy label, but I think it contains enough merit to be considered as literature.

>>1917109

Who are these people who matter?

>>1917109

>huge geeks

Such as, say, 4chan users?

I'm convinced the moderator is a butt-ranged poopy head with a severe case of the inferiorities because he continues to ban me for attempting to derail stupid non-/lit/ related threads like this one. Well, you know what Mr. Moderator? You win. You win at last, after all of my feeble resistance. Let this garbage fester and you'll simply reap the crops you lovingly sowed.

Wait, sorry, /lit/ is already a shit hole
carry on then

>>1917109

What is inherently wrong with sci-fi/fantasy fiction?

>>1917137
>fantasy fiction
as opposed to fantasy nonfiction?

>Absolutely NO ONE that matters considers their output seriously at all.

Totally ignores the fact many of todays technological advances were foretold, and often inspired by, sci-fi writers.

>>1917141

Typical, empty smartass response.

Neil Gaiman, Dune and Watchmen are great, the Bible is boring, Hemingway is bland, 500 Days of Summer is generic bullshit targeted toward a pigeon-holed, manufactured hipstershit audience, /lit/ is usually very supportive of story ideas, and OP is a stupid cunt

>>1917149
>Hemmingway
>bland
I disagree, though based on what I know of him as a person he was a pretty crappy dude.

>>1917109

This is true.

>>1917109

What do you mean by "taken seriously" ? And by whom?

Planescape: Torment is more lit than anything else on that list.

UPDATED MY JOURNAL
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>>1917195
Planescape Torment is a virtual rendition of sitting in a coffee shop full of philosphy and theology majors.

>>1917208
took 4 years in the making and all it does is spew bullshit?

>>1917227
Yet another thing I've never even heard of and completely unrelated to literature.

>>1917109
Yes, because it's only thanks to some ill-defined category of outcasts and "wrong sort of people" that authors like Gaiman regularly make bestseller lists, or that books like Lord of the Rings and the Narnia series are some of the bestselling books OF ALL TIME.

>>1917275
Sometimes when drinking Coca-Cola, I compare it with a nice Chateau Margaux (95) and think to myself... Since Coca-Cola has so many more sales, it must be on par with that beautiful wine I drank.

After all, they are both only beverages.

ITT /lit/ has no idea what an opinion is

>/lit/
books

>not /lit/
trolls

>go back to /b/
responding to trolls

>>1917291
I didn't claim that popularity equals quality. I suggested that saying only uneducated nerds read some of the books being written off here is flat-out retarded and flies in the face of statistics and common sense.

NOT a difficult argument to follow if you have two brain cells to rub together.

>>1917109
Nah mate, not knowing or at least having heard of Neil Gaiman and Frank Herbert is a bit weird. Understandable for people who don't read maybe but unforgivable in someone who wants to be taken seriously. I'd understand if you don't like them or aren't interested but claiming you haven't heard of them smacks of ignorance, possibly will-full ignorance (which is the worst kind).

Any-who, you're dead wrong, Sci-Fi authors who are "taken seriously" - JG Ballard, Doris Lessing, Ursula LeGuin, Octavia Butler, Samuel R Delaney and Margaret Atwood. Are you claiming ignorance of any or all of these now? I can think of more who probably should be taken seriously but these ones are.

>>1917086

Three explanations for that. Either a) you're lying about having a masters. B) You went to a crap university, or c) they actually were mentioned and you deliberately ignored it.

>>1917313
I said nothing about uneducated. Many educated people read this garbage and know that it is what it is. My issue is the prevalence of children on /lit/ who insist this tripe is anywhere near comparable with what most regard as true literature.

>>1917357

Swear to god I've never heard of any of those authors with the exception of Margaret Atwood.

>>1917498
You have taken graduate level literature courses where they mention Neil Gaiman and Frank Herbert? Really? Where?

Dumbledore Dragon University?

>>1917510

>My issue is the prevalence of children on /lit/ who insist this tripe is anywhere near comparable with what most regard as true literature.

Now be careful now kiddo, when you say "most" do you mean "most academics" or "most people" ?

>>1917510

What is inherently wrong with the sci-fi/fantasy genres that prevents them from being "true literature"?

>buttmad fags trying to argue that their swords'n dragons video game plotline bullshit is literature comparable with the western canon
>2011

>>1917521
Nothing. Borges is commonly heralded as one of the greatest authors of the twentieth century.

holy bible
>lit
atheist "propaganda"
>not lit

>>1917525

If you aren't against the genre as a whole how do you know these authors listed are "tripe" and not "true literature" ? You clearly haven't read their works.

people!
OP is a troll, but look,
everybody has to realize that their is thing that people call literature.
People study it at universities. There is a lot of theory and analysis involved. Once you learn all of it, and then read a piece of 'literature,' you can see all sorts of patterns that give you a massive brain erection.
See, that is why some people don't think that the books we all love are literature. They just don't do it for them anymore.
Really, I think it would be less confusing to call all books 'literature' and come up with some other word for books specifically geared towards lit students.

>>1917510
Really? Doris Lessing - unapologetic sci-fi authoress, Winner of the Nobel prize for literature.

I agree with OP's post and I ain't even trolling

there are two things going on here

first there's notions about artistic worth, merit, depth, etc. this is something that i have some sympathy for and kind of agree with, although i think that there are some works of speculative fiction that do have literary merit, and i think the anger about them is kind of dumb + unreflecting + insecure and arrogant + indicative of some pretty dumb opinions

second there's the argument that things outside of literature are not appropriate for discussion on /lit/ and frankly if you think that fuck you.

peace to the world, saging because jesus do you really need to know why i am saging

>posting on /lit/

its ok op, when you reach 18 or 19 you'll start to form opinions of your own instead of trying to appear edgy and non conformist

like the guy who through high school was all HEAVLY METAL FOR LIFE!!! and DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!, now you see him on the back of the bus listening to Dido, because he stopped giving a shit about trying to impress people with now metalasfuck he was.

>>1919055
>implying liking real literature makes me edgy and a non-conformist

people who dismiss science fiction & fantasy as not literature typically aren't familiar with it at all except the most base and commercials elements
and/or are too far up their own arses due to college self-congratulating courses

>>1919430
liking real literature =/= being an ignorant elitist book snob.

>>1919461

Don't you see that you're the snob here, because you're trying to justify your love of entertainment as MORE, as some kind of connoisseurship? It isn't. Referring to 'base and commercial' elements is totally unfair when it's only because of the buying power that the popularity of that shit has given your demographic that anyone has ever indulged you in the delusion that your incorrect taste is respectable.

>implying a Song of Ice and Fire isn't the best writing in existence

Not reading this thread because it's probably full of bullshit and stupidity, but I'm still posting in it because my opinion is important guise listen to me

1. I'd like to see more of the stuff on the left discussed. I hate coming to /lit/ and seeing a front page full of tripfags and GRRM. Whatever, that's just my preference.
2. I wouldn't say that works on the right shouldn't ever be discussed, just that most people shouldn't bother. I don't want to hear about how comics are like, totally literature because they can be like totally deep and talk about really deep stuff sometimes; that's just boring. On the other hand, a discussion that actually assesses how a particular comic might use parts of literary theory or technique in a way that is specific to its form is perfectly reasonable -- the problem is that most people who post about those things have nothing better to say than 'I liked it because it was cool.'