/lit/ - Literature

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RACISM-FREE THREAD
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I'm writing a bigass book. Right now I'm trying to nail down the structure of the thing and plot the general storyline, but its kind of difficult because it has more than a dozen characters at this point and most of them aren't even fleshed out yet. As cringey as it is to admit, I'm basically writing a doorstopper very much inspired by Gravity's Rainbow and Infinite Jest, but about our dear own /lit/erature board and a certain shadowy institution with a massive sprawling underground library, and a conspiracy that goes all the way back to the creation of the internet in the waning days of the Vietnam War. It's part historical epic, part conspiracy, and part zany comedy at this point. The problem is, I want it to actually have some thematic depth; all of the characters, underneath their wacky names and exaggerated mannerisms, have actual emotional depth, and I'm trying to make it so, over the course of the story, as they unravel this gigantic mystery, they actually have arcs and form relationships. I don't just want to spew /lit/ memes for 600 pages, I want there to be an actual story buried underneath all of it. The problem is, if I don't make it crazy enough, it loses some of its appeal (specifically to fellow /lit/izens), but if I make it too crazy, it has no purpose outside of being a paperweight of /lit/ memes (like the other books /lit/ has collaboratively written for the most part).

Bumping my question from last thread.

Anyone have any suggestions for farce comedy to study? I've studied a lot of early South Park and some funny spy movies like Burn After Reading and I Love You Phillip Morris, but now I'm looking for more literary based works to develop prose and storytelling rather than scenes and sequences.

>>19160543
Any anon here have insight on technical writing? I want to write tutorials on my blog but I feel their lacking. In particular, I'm worried 1) failing to showcase why a person would be intrested in what the tutorial is about, 2) overwhelming the reader with too much information and 3) fact checking.
>>19160592
I like Discworld a lot, (although I only read the first two books so far). The series itself is absurd.

>in the home stretch of my final draft
>swear to myself I'm going to get a lot of progress done over the weekend
>so mentally/physically exhausted from work that I spend the whole weekend reading/relaxing to recover
Covid turned my relatively easy job into a stress-inducing nightmare. I hate it all.

New version of this story, will expire in a week:

https://pastebin.com/FiZTnGKr

2,200 words long. May or may not be complete

>>19160620
Your better off with a video blog bro

>>19160737
>Forbidden
Here, try https://ghostbin.com/

>>19160620
Technical writing is pretty easy.
>failing to showcase why a person would be intrested in what the tutorial is about
Just talk about why what you're writing about is important to the development for good writing.
>overwhelming the reader with too much information
You can avoid this by structuring posts with examples and breaking up long sections with good titles.
>fact checking
What kind of fact checking do you mean?

>>19160620
>technical writing
Spend some time editing a wiki, that's how I got a feel for it. If you do something wrong, someone else'll probably fix it.

>>19160543
I’d like to munch her carpet. And by carpet I don’t mean cunt.

>>19160859
https://ghostbin.com/Jc86j

New version of this story, will expire in a week:
2,200 words long. May or may not be complete

>>19160543
I consider it a crime against humanity that the greatest instructional manual on writing prose has been omitted. How can one write prose if one has not read "How I Wrote Certain of My Books" by Raymond Roussel?

>>19160922
This reads like pedophile wish fulfillment. The pacing and plot are nonexistent and it feels like characters exist just to fulfill an underage fetish/loss of innocence theme. The dialogue feels very unnatural to me which is unfortunate as it seems most of this excerpt is arguments back-and-forth. There's no deep exposition that would motivate my interest in these characters. If YA is your goal that's fine but the content as it stands now is highly questionable and not a great read

>>19161381
Glad someome else said it

>>19161500
I like unreliable narrators
But I would prefer more insight into why this person doesn't like birthdays or rather a repeating memory of a birthday. The reader should be able to piece together the meaning of the poem but there's not enough context to do so. Without metaphor it's just someone fantasizing about suicide for shock value

drat here's my work

>>19160572
nigger

>>19161500
and here's a review, six symbols, and a song

cute. (￣ω￣)

https://youtu.be/MQt5Dy4Au0c

>>19161552
This poster is African-American I can see inside your homes now I know you

>>19161552
Can you at least make an acrostic

>>19161544
>>19161548
You are a tripfag who doesn't understand how tripcodes work. You have offered for our review two non-sequential pages from the same story. It would take too long to point out all the issues, but basically your narrator is bitchy and your prose is sloppy and annoying. And despite your narrator's professed hatred of Hannah, there are undertones of sexual desire.

>>19161611
I have to agree. Narrator comes off as close-minded and arrogant. There's no pushback against her conceited judgments. Maybe that will be included in other excerpts but I don't like what I'm seeing now and it doesn't hook me. The imagery is also extremely lacking

Turn your back on anime to become a great writer.

Turn your back on; anime to become a great writer.

Turn your back on the great to become an anime writer.

>>19160995
Literally who?

>>19161544
>>19161548

i gave you feedback in last thread so here's some more: it's all right, but like someone else pointed out - if Hannah's so disgusting why is there so much focus on the train car becoming the titanic sex scene? Also "her effeminate odor increased"... seriously?

So what we have is some girl who's in college or a boarding school and is disgusted by her roomie, yet we get glimpses of her pantsu and is in love with some other chick. I think this will turn out to be some smutty fantasy of a shut in person... maybe someone's interested in reading that. Good luck.

Ophelia subsumed in the void of her own distress drowned. Faint apparitions of her pale face bereft of life, lights the stream. Ephemeral sight of her face shows her longing, signs of life ... the willow tree with its green veil hides her shame ... clasped flowers held closely to her breasts, while her brunette hair flares out. She at last finds peace in the patient stream's aisle at the end of her transitory life; death's bride —Hunting horns rise from the distant forest.
[...]

>>19160787
Maybe. I'm a faggot programmer, and in that area I prefer text tutorials. I could properly setup a video just to show off what I mean.
>>19160881
>What kind of fact checking do you mean?
I'm afraid I'll just say something wrong. Not the core content, I know this shit at least at an intermediate level. I mean I get something wrong, like terminology, history, etc. So while a user can practically understand the topic, I'm afraid I'll give them the wrong history. Still, thanks anon.
>>19160886
Funny enough, once I'm done with this post I plan on editing Kill-9's Emacs page. But thanks anon, I'll push for that more.

hewwo? can u guys pwease review dis?

https://pastebin.com/83Nf1yfF

I haven't started writing yet but i already have the whole story in my head and I think I dont need to read any material to prepare for writing. Am I making a mistake?

>>19162134
Its sci fi fiction btw

>>19162134
>>19162149
okay write it down

>>19162134
>I'm writing
>I'm not actually writing
Never change /wg/

>>19162160
>I haven't started writing yet
>Literally the first sentence
Reading is hard

>>19160592
Tom Sharpe wrote some good comedies.

>>19162199
It's not like /lit/ reads anyways, so it fits.

I have a conundrum. Let's say you have a main character who's been sick and in pain for most of his life, it's a major character trait that they have. You've already planned out their back story and have fleshed out all of the tragic scenes, drama and whatnot right? You write the prologue that introduces the foundation for all of that.

Now, as I was editing and rewriting my first chapter. I came across the fact that I had wrote a good chunk of the damn thing of him screaming his fucking throat out about the fact that all of his suffering and pain had ended so abruptly (because I'm pretty sure that I would do the same damn thing) So that's a major character trait (that I've busted my ass off to come up with) temporarily thrown out the window. Then he finds out that he changed. (its kind of a magical realism/horror thing that I have going on). So, near the end of the chapter, when he tries to go outside to feel the morning sun - it doesn't happen. Instead, he's burnt by the sunlight and suddenly, all that pain comes back and he's mad about it.

Looked good in my eyes. Perfect in fact. That was until I thought "What would be the audience's view on this be." And then I realized it would be two things. My audience being alienated (over an extremely fast resolution towards something that normally takes entire arcs of story progression to solve) and them having dissonance about a character trait that's a major part of the main character (that was focused on in the prologue and made a serious issue for the MC) suddenly being thrown away for the majority of the FIRST chapter AND THEN having it instantly return - IN THE FIRST CHAPTER all the while. All in all... it's pure raw shit in terms of narrative. Question is. How do I nip it in the bud?

>>19162360
Can't say I understood any of that.

>>19162360
>conundrum
stopped reading here

>accidentally spend the night writing another page of an encyclopedia of a fantasy world

>Accidently wrote a black man into my story
Help!

>>19162048
What

I'm going to start a new job tomorrow, losing both my time to write and my will to live as the wage-gears grind me into pulp.
Escapism. Wondrous escapism! That's the ticket. Self-insert powerfantasy with harems of beautiful women just like the Japanese do. What else could writing possibly offer a wagie?

>>19160922
i didn't even get to whatever the other anons thought was questionable because i got insta-filtered by the dialogue tag autism. you don't have to end every line with i asked she replied i retorted she objected, it just stinks of a person who doesn't read trying to remember what books are supposed to look like

>>19160592
For Farce...
Fawlty Towers?
Moliere plays?
Georges Feydeau?
>>19161500
I liked the end line
>>19161957
Agreed.
>>19162432
>not making an epistolary fantasy book
No, but seriously, write a outline, write the chapters. Don't stop writing chapters until you have a full draft.

>>19162596
>Don't stop writing chapters until you have a full draft.
Oh no

>>19162048
For such polemic rhetoric it really doesn't say anything that matches it in contrariety or interest. Also I can't figure out who it is addressed to, I was expecting at the end for the writer of the piece's identity to be revealed to either make them seem a hypocrite or introduce a startling irony.

>>19160543
googoosh?

>>19162360
>screaming his fucking throat out about the fact that all of his suffering and pain had ended so abruptly
Shouldn't he feel relieved? Even though you said his pain is a "major character trait", I don't think anyone would be this upset to see it go. Also, a tragic backstory is very cliche and overrated, so I wouldn't worry about trying to honor it.

>>19160543
When you're trying to get started, what do you think is a better motivator for writing: applying for publications in magazines, or trying to win contests?

Here's a problem: My fiction starts with a secondary character's pov for the first 10800 words or so, then the main character appears somewhere in the middle, and then the pov shifts to this main character past that word count.
The problem is: The main audience won't like the start at all due to the secondary character not carrying the genres and themes i said this work would feature, which should be revolving around the main character's pov only.
The average reader riddled with adhd might feel betrayed and just discard the intent of being invested in reading this work, so i was thinking of either recreating the story with a little worse pacing to (adapt the main character's pov from the start) or put a warning on the synopsis about when the pov shifts.

>>19162933
Is there a specific reason that you have to do it that way, and how early does the inciting incident occur? See if you can get to that incident sooner.
My story goes from dystopia to utopia after the first chapter, and even though the conflict changes, there's consistent themes and voice to it. Maybe there's a way to convey that the story changes tone several chapters in but sounds difficult. Perhaps if you dovetail the themes between the two POVs and give the most important character POV time in the first scene, people will understand that he is the real focus. This is what I would do:
>first scene involves main POV and the majors themes of the rest of the story, can be short
>second scene introduces the minor POV and some other themes to the story
>inciting incident occurs somewhere in the first chapter and helps dovetail both major and minor themes, then shifts the focus back to the main character as he has more at stake now

>>19163048
>Maybe there's a way to convey that the story changes tone
Yes, this is a good notion for me. When the secondary character meets the main character in the middle of this given period i could already be alternating PoVs although to a lower degree. I had to do these events in this particurlar order because the secondary character is a great "trigger" and context introducer in regards to the story of this fiction, whereas the main character has a more limited yet developing profile in the start, but is also more drawn to said featured themes.

>>19162807
neither, because you'll lose all momentum after your first rejection. Make a bet with a friend that you have to suck his cock, or preferably, buy him a case of booze if you don't write it by X date.
>>19162933
Why does it have to change at all? Why can't you just have the secondary character as a narrator all throughout?
And if you think it's a problem, what's to stop you just rewriting it, should be pretty quick and easy. You'll have to redraft it anyway right?

>>19163178
>Why can't you just have the secondary character as a narrator all throughout?
Unfortunately having the secondary character as a narrator would take away even more focus from this primary character in specifc, for example, say, limiting the latter's relationships with the rest of the cast because the reader only has acess to a secondary scope over them.
This pebble turned into quite a rock to move since it's like 1/4 of the first arc, so i'll try to compress the chains of events with what i said in the post above.

>>19163263
>limiting the latter's relationships with the rest of the cast because the reader only has acess to a secondary scope over them.
Why can't you give him more scope? Make it he pieced together the details after the fact? Got told by the primary character what happened? or even from others in the 'cast' - also, why do you use that word? It's a book, you're trying to write flesh and blood people with real and full lives, it's not a play or a film where you have people getting paid to pretend to be characters.

>edited passages over 2000 words so far this morning
>second draft now easier to read and becoming more consistent
>still have 8 hours left
I finally starting to have fun again, I want to write like this every day. If I keep this up for a few months into the 3rd draft it's gonna look preddy gud.

>>19162134
What do you mean by "read any material"? Instruction guides for writing? You should at least pick up a style guide of some kind, doesn't really matter which one, to make sure that your work will at least have some kind of baseline level of quality.

I remember when I first decided to start writing, the idea of seeking advice or following guidelines of any kind seemed incredibly distasteful. Shouldn't an artist be bold and original? I didn't expect to produce perfection on my first attempt, but I figured trial-and-error would teach me what I needed to know without compromising my unique style and vision. But after two years of trying short stories and one year of working on a novel-length manuscript, I began to sense that my work wasn't hitting the notes I wanted it to, and it wasn't improving at all, no matter how I edited and revised. It was easy to discard the advice I was getting from online writing groups because they had no real authority or experience to justify their opinions, like I'm not going to feel okay about a Star Wars-style exposition-laden prologue just because some unpublished rando did the same thing. And I'm not going to decide that the idea doesn't work just because some other unpublished rando read somewhere that you need to start with action. And when I sought advice on some technical detail, like characterization or setting description, literally the only thing you ever I got from online writing groups was just "read other authors who have good characters/setting description and do what they did!!" Nobody ever bothered to justify any of their advice with outside authority, like pointing out how they had sat down and studied the works of an established author and came away with a list of concise guidelines they could offer me. Very often they would offer advice which I could counter with an example from an established author, someone with authority, and the response would be a smug "Well you're not that author, so..."

Somewhere or the other I saw a quote from "How Not To Write A Novel" which was hilarious in it's own right. So I ordered a copy. It's a great book because it not only points out common pitfalls of beginning authors, it also understands the thought processes behind them. And again, it's entertaining in it's own right. You can find quotes online. Can't recommend it enough, it got me past my "tedious realism" stage where I felt compelled to document every action, like I couldn't trust the reader to guess how a character had arrived at a certain setting, I had to physically detail their journey there, what they saw and what they thought about what they saw. I thought it was characterization, but it turned out to be filler which could be cut.

>>19161957
>I think this will turn out to be some smutty fantasy of a shut in person...
Chapter 2 goes into detail about how Hanna & Rosie join forces to torture and murder a small cat
Chapter 3 is all about Rosie discovering narcotics and becoming a party animal
Chapter 4 is the smut (lust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OskGh5qa6E)) Chapter, wherein Rosie projects an image of Thomasin onto Hannah and the two begin a journey down into the darkest of hedonisms
Chapter 5 is the loss of self chapter, wherein Rosie believes she becomes Thomasin
Chapter 6 is were teh gurl dee-send les depths into hell & pain pain pain 'till Thomasin cause judgement day
Novella is called "Sinner's Descent into the Depths of the Unreal"
>note: chapter one was only written to be disgusting. if you found it "smutty" it's because you're a horny boy.

I plan on self-publishing it alongside another novella based on this album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34UutDrXV2Q

I'm also not a shut-in! quit projecting there friend

>>19161611
namefag ≠ tripfag
you = newfag
Thanks for the feedback!

>>19162134
I binged the Writing Excuses podcast for a few months at work. It leans toward genre fiction, but it's helpful to listen to how writers think and approach their writing as projects. You could save a lot of time by being aware of rookie mistakes.

If you ever want to get into literature though, you will need to hone your prose far more and also have something to say to readers who are seeking enlightenment and not just entertainment.

Can someone please explain to me how prose can be "sloppy?"

>>19162495
Buck break him.

>>19164386
It's sloppy when it appears the writer isn't paying attention to what's going on. A lot of the sentence structures are the same, the words aren't clear, the grammar is wrong, the tense is all over the place, the emotional beat is uncertain. Even if you break the rules, there should be a consistency to the voice of your prose and people can accept it. If it looks like you just spilled words on a page and didn't edit it later with acknowledgement of the work the prose does, it comes off as sloppy.

>>19162495
Ask yourself, "Am I mature enough to introduce a character of a different culture and gender than my own into my story and not perpetuate harmful stereotypes?"
Take at least 5-10 minutes to think about your answer. Drink some tea. Get some fresh air. Then put the pen down because at a white male you literally cannot.

>>19164386
With gusto!

Sloppy prose occurs whenever an author simply throws words onto the page without any consideration for the word which came before or the word which came after, or even the actual meaning or spelling of the word which they currently intend to use. The most common results are repetition and contradiction. This word-level pattern tends to repeat itself in sentences, paragraphs, and even over the structure of the entire piece itself.

I can give you a few examples from a piece which was submitted to this thread for critique.

Repetition:
>long-forgotten friend or relative I had once known
>who's impression on me failed to stick in my conscious memory but might've made it's mark somewhere deeper
>extrasensory powers beyond that which science would suggest is possible
>leaving the room a temporary void of blissful peace. But such things are not made to last.
>taken care to study
>we were forced together

There isn't a tremendous amount of contradiction in individual sentences. It would be nit-picking to point out the two or three clear instances. But on the whole, it's clear that the author didn't put much thought into word choice or sentence structure. It is, in a word, sloppy.

>If you are to remain known while writing books (for the books themselves are likely to have a Mayfly's life), you must either court the media and left publicity be your pimp like Truman Capote, or cling like old ivy to the walls of the Academy, passing your person around from campus to campus like a canape on a party tray.
>One way or another, you are thus able to appear in public often and collect the plaudits of hands which might as well clap since they are otherwise empty. You read your book with histrionic polish, or display a practiced wit, and your increasing ease, on talk shows. You review. Yes, you do, you descend to your opponent's depths, where you'll be seen as just another shark. You sympose. You give interviews. All of it adding to the stuff about and by you which a student, a critic, a scholar, must consult. For you are as large as your library's catalog entries.
>—William H. Gass

>>19164427
How do you keep that consistency when breaking the rules and being experimental?

>>19164364
all i'm saying is since we're on 4chan everything is gonna have that pervy taint to it. But there is too much focus on panties and body odours and the like for it not to give off a sort of smutty vibe. Deflect the criticism all you want, i'm just trying to help you.

>>19164364
i don't understand why you're a tripfag when you have nothing interesting to say. female yuppie hedonism has been done already

How do I level up my imagination?
I thought I'd write a simple fantasy novel, struggle to think about a scenario as mundane as the hero walking through an enemy's castle. All I can think of is, essentially, a big stone warehouse. Maybe with a few floors. I don't really understand what it should have, or why it should have something.

>>19165407
Look at the designs of real castles, think about why they are built that way, visit actual castles if you can

>>19165407
read a book about castles or something retard

When given the choice, are bittersweet endings just objectively better to than good ones? They always brand a lasting memory of the work on the reader's head due to the emotional influx of the final tragedy, whereas it's not always the case with the other.

>>19165407
It's post apocalypse setting and the castle is an amazon warehouse filled with slaves with wagie cages

>>19165407
It has aliens, and alien technology. The protag is a dog, and he must warn the Hero of the impending danger. But this will be a struggle indeed, because the dog can't speak human.

>>19165438
Nah, I'm going over some works I've read in my head and adding a "bittersweet" doesn't really add munch. It's just another tool that works better for some stories than others.

>>19165473
>a "bittersweet" doesn't really add munch
Sorry, I had a stroke

>>19165407
Start with ideas you think about a lot, and decide on something you want to tell from it. Maybe it's a religion, a philosophy, a myth, a historic event, a personal experience. What are the dominant emotions? Are there important symbols for those things? What theme did you learn from it, how did it change you? How might it have affected someone else, or what if you interpreted it a different way?
Deconstruct those elements, say there is a crow as a symbol for a theme. You take that familiar thing, but then add something new to it. Sometimes it's a simple as making it really big, or maybe it has mask on, or maybe it is something subtle like it never leaves its perch at your chamber door. Take those dramatic elements and give them a part in the story: a character, a monster, a setting, a language, anything you can think of. What your story is comprised of can always reveal with double-duty: something in the setting can reveal how characters feel, something in the language can reveal something about the past.

So I found out today my second short story has been accepted for publication. It's at a pretty decent journal - they're even paying me, $30 per page. It feels great to be making some real progress and building up something of a track record. Novel's going really well, too.

Just wanted to share some positive energy. For ages I thought I'd never be published anywhere since I was a straight white male. But it's happening, and in places I never dreamed would accept my work.

>>19165559
Thanks for sharing. I don't know what tomorrow holds, but if I can still write I look forward to the day someone accepts my writing.

>>19165559
Good for you. Hope more fortune is present in your future.

>>19165603
>>19165611
We're ALL gonna make it, anons. I almost gave up writing this year because I produced something truly dreadful, but then just doubled down and wrote these two consecutively, which have both been accepted. I have ideas for a couple more, but I really want to get the novel finished first and shop that around a bit. If you have any questions about the process ask away

When did you settle on a style that felt right for you? Was it difficult, or was it a natural process? I have trouble keeping a consistent third person narrator; my tone tends to vary too much.

>>19165641
It's not writing that I'm worried about, it's the near future. Part of my writing is to help me move past how difficult living might soon be and instead imagine the challenges we will face after they are overcome.

>come across unexpected plot barrier/hole
>fiercely brainstorm thoughts for quite some time
>somehow a miraculous. fitting piece of the puzzle pops up in your mind
>repeat
These contrivances are burning too much of my energy. I spent half of the day conceptualizing a scene and i can hardly bring myself to write it down right now. Should i get energy drinks or just slow my pace?

>>19165837
I think you might need a breather lest you run the risk of burning yourself out.

What do y’all think about speeches/monologues/soliloquies sprinkled into long form prose? In this case, a character relaying all the details of an oath he swore to another woman before his current (arranged) marriage.

I was always down with those soliloquies in Hamlet but not sure if that style works in novels like it does plays.

>>19165998
In general they aren't that good, but when they are great they could be the most memorable part of the story. In the same way that it's good to rewrite the intro or ending until you nail it, if you have any kind of monologue make sure everything about it is perfect. Every line needs a point, and all comes to a conclusion to push the story forward.

>>19161552
Good job, anon.
>>19160631
is this anon me?
>>19162580
fuck waging. there is no reason this shit has to be 40 hours a week. fuck this shit.
>>19162933
i used that format in a manuscript, and personally i love it. fuck the opinion of plebs.
>>19165559
congrats anon

>>19165664
>first drafts of manuscripts were campy and overly fast-paced
>despise it
>trying to turn everything into polished high-brow prose with melancholic tone
Somehow I actually do have nice prose but it is much harder to write like this.
>>19165998
>>19166315
This.

>>19164927
See: Chapter 4. Ultimately I'm not deflecting, I'm embracing. If you think there's smut in chap 1 you ain't seen nothing yet, kiddo

>>19165128
I'm still not a tripfag, newbie

>>19164427
Ah, I see. This is the first draft, so that makes sense. Cleanup happens in later iteration.

>>19164575
This post is great, thanks! Will continue cleaning with later drafts.

>>19162604
Stop caring about the first draft. It's a draft. It can have as many mistakes as you will need to get it done. Once the editing is done, there won't be any more mistakes.

>>19166380
But not everyone writes big, meaty first drafts. Many people write skeletal first drafts.

What would you call the gold standard for stories for where figuring out what happened to the world/what is the world even, is the main mystery which is tied into the plot

>>19166421
Not a book but Blacksouls 1&2 are probably the best examples of that I have ever seen.

>>19166449
>Not a book but
Reading?

>>19165438
I started off my novel telling myself I was going to kill off basically every main character, but now I'm thinking I won't.
Sure you can shock your viewers but leaving them with something to hope for is just another coat of paint, so to speak

>>19166315
Thanks, yea, that’s the general way I’ve thought about it too. I generally comb over each and every line several times, orating as I go, etc. I’m sure when even when it’s finished, it won’t really be “complete” until the there’s a full manuscript around it.

In the end I may decide to split it apart as dialogue so that it isn’t a sustained voice for too long, so I appreciate the insight!

>>19166541
I’m not going to go on /lit/ and recommend people 70 hours of porn story without specifying that it is not a book.

>>19160543
wrote a poem rate it

im like a bird

im like a bird
like a little bird
i spend my days flying
and resting on the tees
i fly through the sky and i admire
multiple sunsets at once,
the reflections of the light
endless fields of clouds.
but if you make me angry
imma shit on you
and youll wonder hey what the fuck
a shit just fell from the sky
i shoulda never bothered that bird
and ill laugh as i cruise the skies
but when the laughter wears off
and when i grow sick of the majesty
ill think of your black ass
and ill shit on your black head again
you nigger

>>19165998
I actually just reread the Wikipedia article about the "Tears like rain" monologue and I think it can be done really effectively, but it has to be absolutely perfect.

>>19166666
I mean, that works because it's only like two lines.

You can hardly call it a monologue at all.

>>19165407
In the particular situation of filling out a location, its a simple matter of knowing what the story is about.
Externalize the internal conflict of the character: a fuckboi is confronted with room after room of sexy harems. So obviously you know bedchambers: four poster beds, tapestries, 'toilettes', ladies in waiting, laundry, children running around since it's a harem...
A happy merchant protagonist is confronted with gold and treasure. Where did the treasure come from? Is it well organized or has it been hastily acquired through conflict? There... you've just turned your warehouse into either the bedrooms of Versailles or the last scene of the Raiders of the Lost Arc or Scrooge McDuck's basement. (of course, I'm not endorsing you use movies and cartoons as your reference, it's just expeditious by way of example).
>>19165837
Start jouranlling the process of how you fix the the plot holes, see if you can streamline the process.
Sometimes, not always, the same questions can help you out of a jam.
>>19165998
>In this case, a character relaying all the details of an oath he swore to another woman before his current (arranged) marriage.
Gonna be brutal. Doesn't exactly grip me as content for a monologue
>>19166380
that's exactly what I was getting at
>>19166417
Skeletal is still a scaffolding

>>19166702
But it is a really effective soliloquy

>wrote 1200 words tonight and tied off some themes
very nice. i have a certain band i listen to when working on this manuscript and it puts me in just the right mood.

>>19166712
I appreciate the brutality.

Perhaps not! But I want to compose the whole thing before I decide how it fits, or whether it does.

Any advice on describing sounds?
I'm trying to get out of the habit of "it made a high-pitched scratching sound"

>>19166722
I know the feeling bro. Well done, keep up the progress but don’t get down when you don’t hit the same standards! Every day’s different.

>>19166777
So let’s say you wanted to roll with your “it made a high-pitched scraping sound” example —

If you wanted to reframe that, maybe “the sound of her cry scraped against his ears like _____” or something. Personifying the senses is a helpful little trick, obv not to be abused but it can work occasionally. Simile and metaphor never hurt anyone sparingly either.

>>19166777
Employ liberal usage of onomatopoeias. It's surprisingly immersive.

>>19166777
I think of the sound I'm trying to describe and make the meta of the sentence around it. If it's a short fast sound, the sentence itself is short and fast. The proper choice of a verb is important too. There's a big difference between the sound crack and the sound slam.

>>19166798
cringe

Been out for a hot minute. What happened to having Deep Work and Atomic Habits in the OP? I thought those were great books for building a routine, even if they're not technically focused on creative writing.

>>19166734
I mean, I could see it work if we already know all the ways he's broken that oath so there's sort of this irony as he recapitulates what we know are lies?
I dunno... just not my kind of thing. I hated the sermon in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, I'm fearful you'll end up with something like that.

>>19166834
I’ll have to read that sermon! No sarcasm, I think it’ll be good to know what to avoid.

Thanks again anon!

>>19166887
Good luck, and who knows? Maybe you'll subvert all my expectations which would be great!

>>19166666
>has to be absolutely perfect
>quints

>finally finished YA historical fiction
>time period is late 1500's transitioning into the 1600's
>waiting to hear back from agents

books for this feel

>>19167053
do you find YA to be kind of limiting? I write hf but for the adult market.

>>19167053
just publish ebook for kdp monies while you wait to hear back from trad pub

>>19167057
Not necessarily. I didn't intend the book to be YA at first, but once a few beta readers suggested I tweak it for YA, it was surprisingly easy to do so. It's technically alternate historical fiction which allowed me far more freedom in what I wrote while keeping true to all the research I did.

I've been really angry lately and I've been trying out this full-bore overcharged adjective heavy style where I pile on the emphasis. I'm not sure how effective it is, though I suspect it is, but it's extremely fun to write this way. You just kind of unleash. You picture what you want in your mind and unleash an arsenal's worth of words in an unrelenting rocket barrage until all that remains is a smoldering smudge of slag. For reference Nietzche's robust, furious style shares some parallels.

>>19167073
>just publish ebook for kdp monies

Does this work? I've been trying Kindle Vella for the last two weeks and I've got one follower and no monies.

I was going to wait until I had a decent collection of stories and post them on kdp.

>>19167109
It absolutely works, theres huge money in publishing on kindle these days.

If you do decide to indie publish, google '20BooksTo50k' and learn as much as you can, it's like the codex of indie publishing.

>write book in a way where i don’t consider the reader at all
>mfw it’s just my writing style

>>19167130
>consider the reader
People do this?

How could anyone possibly think this is smutty?

>>19167374
>cropping out the next part where she starts vigorously licking her sweaty belly button
Nice try

>>19167109
I published an ebook/paperback in the summer and am still sitting at 0 copies sold. I think you need like, friends to make this work

>>19167053
There's one big problem with your concept. Young adults will drop your book immediately at the word "historical"

hey /lit/, thanks for your help with editing/critiquing this piece. this is the final installment of my Balkans travel series. this one's about post-socialist decay, heritage preservation, identity formation, sameness. Let me know what you think of it, if you want.

>https://goodperson.substack.com/p/balkans-vi

Trying to find some good magazines/contests for different genres to submit short stories to, but google can be a real cunt. What are some that are actually worth a damn?

>>19166353
You are annoying, and what is sad is that your pussy is showing through your words. It’s sad cause there’s already enough hate on women on this site and your presense here isn’t helping the general misogyny here.
As for calling me kiddo - i’m 38.

>try to imitate a certain writing style
>fail miserably

This is the only story i had any hope in, its over bros

>>19167374
>"effeminate stench"
it's literally describes a tranny smells bro and you ask how it's smutty?
I mean it's not sexy if that's what you mean, it's too cringe to be sexy.

is it easier to get published in YA as someone with a lot of diversity points?

anyway, i am not an amazing flowery writer but i have stories i want to tell so i want to be good at telling them. who are some authors like this? not the best writers but great storytellers?

I’m stuck at the first sentence. How should a story start? If we pick 200 best openings and consider their merits can we learn anything from that? What is the number one idea that a good start should build immediately towards?

I will write about a bugman gating raped by a dragonwoman.

>>19168161
Start with the end.

>>19165559
great job, anon

Why do i always get inspired at work or when im trying to sleep

>>19168161
>What is the number one idea that a good start should build immediately towards?
uhh the idea that forms the heart of your story I suspect

>>19168280
For me, it's always sleep because my mind is no longer distracted by others wanting to use my time

>>19166777
look up musical terms: staccato, glassando, trills, flourishes, fills etc.

Is YA genre dying?

>>19168161
inciting incident and point of attack. the inciting incident can happen before the story starts, but the point of attack is necessary. hamlet seeing his father's ghost is the point of attack, the inciting incident was his father's murder which happened before the play starts.

>>19168487
Only because LITRPGs are filling the niche of incel wish fulfilment now.

>be me
>only good at rhetoric
>want to write creative fiction
just fuck my shit up

>write comedic short story
>nobody gets the joke
Every time

>>19168617
That’s me with poetry. Feels bad man.

>>19168617
Shouldn't a comic short story be funny all throughout, in it's descriptions, in it's character interactions. Shouldn't it be a series of jokes rather than a story that happens to have a punchline or a witty allusion for those who pay attention?
P.s. I'm aware I'm probably projecting

>>19168624
Most comedy writers will tell you that the majority of the humor comes from having humorous characters doing things, not contriving punchlines.

I thought it was transparently an attempt at humor

sometimes I write down random phrases and sentences that don't make any sense but I like the way the words sound
>Have not the bells been singing? Ringing?
>Clinging dearly to our sacred oars,
>passing through the heat-struck doors, my lord!
>Leading sharp! Through carnal set,
>My good dear! Your boots are dripping, wet!
makes no sense but sounds kind of funny, anybody else do this?

>>19168599
Turn your rhetoric into a story that best suits it, that's what I do. Most of what I read is non-fiction. I wanted to write a story about human nature revealed through history. Instead of writing a history book I decided to make a scifi to show what we might learn from the future about ourselves. Then two settings in historical past: one in a restored nation and the next in a collapsing one. The ones in the past are less creative, but you can still be creative of how the story is told. Honestly you could take examples from the past and make scifi versions if you wanted to, I considered doing that.

I don't read much and haven't written anything but I have this urge to write but I don't know what to write or why to write

He hissed as he swept his cape across the room, a sable batwing that cut the air. The antediluvian count bared his unnaturally elongated teeth as a rabid beast.
“The dick only makes it,” was his expression, pausing for effect, continuing: “Even better.”
As soon as he spoke those dammed words, a flock of bats appeared where he once stood. They screeched and chattered, flying into the onlooker’s screaming face; this man tried, but failed, to testudo himself with his arms. Teeth bit into his limbs and he caterwauled terribly. What terrible beast would have uttered such words and disappeared in such furious violence?

>>19168487
Why would you think it is? It’s oversaturated with no break out novels but far from dead

>>19162724
بله برادر

>>19164686
There’s a fine balance between being experimental and being fucking retarded.

>>19160543
I was sitting alone in the kitchen when “Hey Ya!” by OutKast came on the radio, then I ended that radio’s life. Before I could even understand what I was doing it was in front of me in ten thousand small pieces of plastic and metal and wiring. I HATE that fucking song. As soon as I heard that first “My baby don’t mess around…” my body acted by instinct. I could almost smell the smoke coming out of my ears as I stood there, shoulders tensed, staring at the mess I had just made. Not better off now than I was three seconds ago but at least I was 50 dollars poorer. It was a great relief. There is that strange, cathartic feeling to destruction. I was spared from André 3000’s cheesy, somber lyrics and poppy, RnB- sound. Instead it floated out onto the floor together with the guts of the machine.

The simpleness of the act took me by surprise. I was never a violent man. I am one who builds things for a living. What has occupied my mind for the last 14 years has been how to build and how to do it effectively. Year in and year out I played my part excellently in that dumb game. I kept my mouth shut, smiled and bent over when needed. But hidden under my deadpan exterior always was something that wanted to burn it all to the ground. I look back on years of hard work and sacrifice. Sucess and failures which have allowed me to afford countless luxuries. All of the things that I built carried a piece of my soul in them, still I felt that my greatest achievement yet was that smashed radio laying in front of me at that moment. Since that day I have dedicated my life not to creation but to destruction. Great mother Kali. Her will guides me, I am her tool. Everytime I hear that song I think only of where I should point my anger next.

>>19169546
kek'd

>>19169565
Thank you bro, I wrote it up for an exercise in my creative writing class. It’s kinda shitty but I’m glad you got a laugh out of it.

>stuck between two possible story paths

How do you go about picking which is the better option? Do you make a pros and cons list? Do picture each one in your head and decide which is better? Do you just wing it?

t. chronically indecisive fraud

>>19169723
I pick the one I think is most fun

>>19169723
I usually solve this by writing a little bit of both. After a while I can assess my feelings on writing each then >>19169758

>>19169723
Just go with one that hits the themes and ending you think is best. I had one outline where character A dies then B and C team up and unleash hell on earth. The other option was A survives, but B and C drift apart and oppose eachother in a more personal story. I went with the latter because I like my apocalyptic stories to feel personal and not wanton destruction and autistic fury.

>>19168747
Thanks anon

>>19167940
This guy gets it

>>19169723
Similar problem, but I have a future story path that will be so involved with the development of three central character's development together that I won't have space to write my usual perspective changes every 1-2 chapters. So one of my major characters, who is separate from these three, may just end up taking a whole back seat for an entire book.
It's also forced me to reevaluate if changing perspectives so often is a good thing. I only really am doing it as a hold over from my last book where 10,000 word chapters were the norm for each character, of which there were six.

>>19170365
>"Your breath smells like chewing gum."
And this is a turn-off how?
Also, it's "sexually" with two Ls.

>>19161552
AAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Everytime I try to start a new story I find it to be such a damn slog that half of the time I just want to quit out of frustration. I've tried just about every method of outlining under the sun, and I've tried "pantsing". I've gotten the best results doing a sort of half-and-half method, making shit up as I go with a loose outline to keep things on-track, but even I have a terrible time staying invested while writing those early chapters of the first draft. I feel like it may be because I don't really know my characters all that well yet. At that point they're still just character bios in a document.

Friends have told me to just worry about getting the story more-or-less down in the first draft and worry about going back and fixing up the beginning on subsequent passes. I'm trying to do this with my current project. It makes sense to me in theory, since by the time someone gets to their second draft, they really should have a far better grasp on characters and events.

Anybody else struggle with this? Any solutions? Right now I'm trying to just roll on through until I start getting a better feel for things.

>>19160543
Still pretty new to writing. Which of the recommended readings should I start with first?

>>19171461
There's too many books about how to outline a plot. I want a book that teaches me how to write good prose.

>>19171113
based mindless coomer and typo pointer-outer

Is it possible to write 10k words in 3 days?

>>19171570
absolutely. theres people who can write that much in just one day

>>19171587
Thanks. I'm trying to get a really long story done ridiculously fast because I procrastinated and I'm getting anxious. Back to writing I guess.

>>19171464
people who can write good prose are not writing books on how to write good prose. just read the greats

>>19171661
>people who can write good prose are not writing books on how to write good prose
Why not?

>>19168675
I don't no, but when I'm in bed I'll let noises go through my head that replicate the rhythms of a sentence, often not even words, just vague sounds that hint at a word. then sometimes i do it with words and make nonsense, as long as it sounds nice.

cadaver crone: bly thimble sorn. findle bind and supper, crags and blist, all muster for a whine and son--suffer lithe, nimble sorter, and soothe all perryade.

>>19169723
>>19169885
more or less what this anon said, a theme isn't really for the audience, it's for you. It's a reference point for you while writing, go with the story path that best dramatizes the theme

>>19171570
Assuming you write 30 words per minute, you can write 10,000 words in 5 and a half hours.
So set yourself 2 hour blocks each day, and you can easily make it in three days!

>>19171464
"reading like a writer" is ok, but it's basically just a list of examples with a bit of analysis. you just have to read a lot and very attentively until you develop a sense for how shit "sounds". there's no shortcuts.

>>19165559
Nicely done. Glad to see other anons are making it, too.

>>19171977
>for how shit "sounds"

I was reading A Poetry Handbook by Mary Oliver recently and found a lot of things I didn't know there about phonetics -- I think the ones I read about are called articulatory phonetics. Linguistics is so vast ... but yeah, it was interesting to see her knowledge of the sounds of language and how it all breaks down, and being able to articulate the beauty of a poem by how it chooses its sounds. Of course, I have a very basic knowledge of this sort of thing, I'm aware of hard and soft noises in words, but to see it laid out in the proper technical terms was something else.

>>19167053
Just read Romeo and Juliet, bro.

>>19172057
Reading the Penguin Press version of Gawain and the Green Knight helped me appreciate poetry and language a lot more than I have in the past.

I've written an entire manifesto and now have no idea what to do with it. I've been published many times, and I have two different editors, but I wouldn't dare show it to either. How the fuck do you even get controversial books properly looked at?

>>19172079
Hmm... Normally, I'd day shoot your shot and see what happens. But what do you mean "manifesto"?

There's a small press that has a really good reputation and that publishes books in the genre of my big story. I've held off submitting to them for one big reason: they don't accept digital submissions. They insist that you mail them a query letter and actual, physical sample pages. I've been lazy and reluctant to put the effort in before, but now I'm seriously considering giving them a try. Why not? I guess the demand for physical submissions filters out the non-serious writers.

>>19172321
Or people too poor to drive to FedEx and print and mail 50 pages like I did for my first novel.

I'm an ESL fanfic anime writer. Thoughts of pic rel?

>>19172398
My thoughts are "why are you writing attack of shit"?

>>19172406
Because I'm a retard that got too invested in that shit and now I want to feel that at least it wasn't in vain through an elaborated coping mechanism of headcanon, instead of fucking moving on

>>19172398
It's genuinely awful. That said, put this up on RR and shit out 1500 words per day and you can get a four figure Patreon up and running in no time at all.

>>19172314
>I'd day
I swear I don't actually write like this, I've got to stop mobile posting

>>19172438
>It's genuinely awful.
Thanks for your criticism anon. Could you help me and elaborate, if you wish? And, I don't know what you mean by the last

Anybody have tips on organizing tons of disconnected ideas? (From the same story)

>>19172491
You have a few options:
1. tell (I mean verbally, not online) your main idea to people and start embellishing it with secondary ideas. With each retelling the overall premise and outline should become clearer as you add or discard secondary ideas
2. get a cork board and some post it notes, on each note write down each of your disconnected ideas and then try and shuffle them into a coherent shape
3. basically the same as 2 - open a word document and write down all your disconnected ideas. Put it to the side or print it out and then write it again, but this time try and massage the order so they start to 'flow'
4. Just pick one idea and start outlining it, if your disconnected secondary ideas find a natural fit, good, if not - also good. Just pick one 'anchor' idea and expand outward
5. (DO NOT RESEARCH) embrace the disconnect. Think like a film editor and think in ellipses. See if a 'shadow' story can emerge form the stuff you leave out of the narrative, the unnarrated plot. Maybe have a unreliable narrator, indeed, maybe you can give some motivated reason behind why they leave some parts out and even have inconsistencies... who is the narrator? What is their intention in telling the story this way? Who is their audience?

>>19172398
Way too many characters. And Eren and Erwin is confusing, make their names different. Then you have scouts, and corps, and jean and Connie, Floch... and Armin... wait isn't Armin just a typo of Erwin? Isn't Erwin Eren or are they different?... like who the fuck are all these people!? Why should I care what they're doing by the sea?
There's lots of grammatical errors which confuse subject and object for example
>His cloak dragged him
What is this some kind of magic cloak that is pulling Eren forward? that would be pretty cool, but I'm sure what you really mean is his cloak is so heavy that it's inhibiting his ability to walk and you're trying to use this to convey how emotionally labored he is, right? Well it doesn't convey that... it conveys the opposite - that it's like a magic carpet!
>The commanders met side to side, being Erwin's height taller than him of his right
This reads like you're saying Erwin is taller on his right side than his left, and the commanders are even taller than Erwin's right side - very confusing. Also, who are the commanders? I could forgive the large cast if it wasn't for "unnamed corp's members looked at their leader" - I mean, I feel like you should trim a lot of this fat.

>>19172478
Ignoring the fanfic aspect the worst part of it is that it's clearly ESL. That would have been apparent without you telling us.
One tip I will give outside of the ESL complaint is for you to look at how you start each sentence.
>he
>they
>insert name here
It's very jarring. Feels like a stream of events rather than an actual story if that makes sense.
>and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way and this happened and he felt this way
Even something as simple as changing the first couple sentences to
>The sea breeze made Eren dizzy. A humid lukewarm air that pierced his stomach and brought him from his saddle sick and weak.
It's still not great because I don't really like the idea of sea breeze making someone sick, generally that's a romanticized image that is cool and relaxing, but it still flows better than what you had simply because it doesn't use 'The' twice.

The RR thing was about Royal Road, a website where people post serialized fiction for free and attach their Patreon to make money. It's always the terrible fanfictions that make money there.

>>19172565
>>19172574
Thanks a lot anons for your time and words. I'll see what I can do

Reminder that the worst thing you can do as a writer is post in this general. Writers are all shit people, and you should only talk with them if they're published authors who'll recommend you to their agent or a magazine.

How do I hook my reader in an isekai story?
I don't want to do lame powerlevel shit or waifu bait. Should I try to bank on characters, setting up a greater mystery or maybe establish a threat?

>>19173197
>How do I hook my reader in an isekai story?
By writing

>>19173105
>Reminder that the worst thing you can do as a writer is post in this general.
Nah, its fine. No one here writes anyways.

>>19173198
Yeah but what?

>>19173216
Your story. Surely you aren’t like the rest of the anons who don’t write?

>>19173197
First, make isekai part matter and have lasting consequences. As in, if you remove it, the story will not work.

I guess it is time to look into hiring a copy-editor and self-publishing. They were the only local publisher that publishes fiction, so I don't see any other option.

>>19173220
I already wrote the first volume, but I am rewriting it because it was very barebones and had a bunch of mistakes in it.

>>19173226
I did that, but that won't become apparent until a bit later into the story.

>>19173343
At least make apparent changes that change the protag's life.
My protag had, basically, went from an airplane model builder who streamed the flights as a part of e-sport team to piloting the real combat thing and being a part of research that might change the world.
The latter part is gradually unveiled, but the former is instant to highlight the change.

>>19173269
why would you need a "local" publisher specifically?

>>19173105
true, but it has nothing to do with writers. it's just that all internet communities are terrible and if they're devoted to a goal like "become good at writing" they will inevitably sabotage you more than they help you. i only visit these threads to make myself feel better by reading shitty excerpts from beginners and i'm pretty sure if i actually listened to the advice i see posted here and internalized all of the outlandish anxieties you guys exhibit it would completely ruin me not just as a writer but as a person

Dedicated my life to writing today (27 years old). Previously I dabbled heavily in filmmaking, youtube content, and other little projects. Today I reached a crossroads and decided that for the rest of my life I'll be pursuing writing books (primarily fiction, but non-fiction too).

I guess it won't mean much to a stranger but felt like sharing anyway.

>>19173529
Let us know when you actually write something.

>>19173574
I have already. I've shared my stuff in these threads before.

>>19165559
I think it's amazing this hasn't had more responses. I have never in my life seen that green 'accepted' button on Submittable. These threads are filled with blind leading the blind, unpublished leading unpublished, and here is someone who is of a high enough quality as a writer that they are being PAID for their story to appear in a decent journal. I know the journals, and if this guy isn't bullshitting, $30 per page is a mark of a very high-tier one.

Anon,

>What is your story about?
>Can you post an excerpt of your prose so I can compare it to my own?
>How long have you been writing?
>What would you say has caused the biggest improvement in your writing?
>What's your day job? How do you find the time?
>How have you found the publishing process and any tips for being accepted?

Many thanks in advance. The number of anons posting in the history of these generals who have actually managed traditional publication is probably in single digits. Hope you see my message.

>>19165559
nice. do these journals pay per page and not per word? how much words is their "page"?

>>19173529
godspeed anon

>>19173596
seconding this

Belly dancing scene soon my guys!

>>19174304
Looking forward to it, and so am I

>>19174304
I'm starting the castration scene soon so we're both in for a good day.

https://controlc.com/95e4669a
https://controlc.com/89ff2625
https://controlc.com/e6af8fa0

>>19174381
Not very well laid out, it sort of jumps around. But, it was funny reading it once I re-read it a few times.

>saved up years worth of non-perishable goods incase of hyperinflation
I'm gonna keep working but man if I lose my job this ought to be the comfiest double-time writing experience.

How do I finally get around to doing those rewrites I said I'd do years ago, and how do I ensure I don't repeat this habit?

>>19174809
There's some saying that if you have to ask if it's too late to start saving then it is, so I'm not gonna ask if it's too late, but I will add that the apocalypse will give me plenty of excuses to finish my books.

>>19174881
Open your document, get a bit of an outline going. Then open up other things you do online. Consider your other hobbies, people you spend a lot of time with. What do you want more? I dis this and now I look at time spent not writing, besides work of course, with a little revulsion. I think comparing them herlps you realize what you care about. Look at your documents early and often and you can learn to appreciate it.

How do I write a lot of characters like I see in all these novels?

>>19173596
>>19174004
Hi anons, it's very kind of you to say. I don't think I'm an amazing writer by any means, but I'll try my best to answer your questions:

>What is your story about?
The first one published was a southern gothic/Flannery O'Connor-esque short story with religious undertones. The one that's just been accepted follows a woman reminiscing about her childhood following her brother's suicide, also with a heavy religious theme. All my writing has varying religious aspects because that's something that formed a large part of my own upbringing, and it's something I know intimately, so it comes across as authentic when I write it.

>Can you post an excerpt
I'm reluctant to post too much before the stories are officially printed, but here's a short extract from the project I'm currently working on. My writing style is very consistent across everything I produce, although pic related is still a first draft. I know I abuse semi-colons but there are worse vices! Once the stories are published I can post links here, though.

>How long?
I've been writing on and off since I was really small, like 7 or 8, I've always loved English and I have a first class degree in English literature where I took creative writing modules. I go long long stretches without writing anything though, I'd be much more successful if I was consistent.

>Biggest improvement?
Literally reading and writing as much as possible. And reading the good stuff. Be an elitist. Read Joyce, Eliot, Henry James, Proust, Chekhov, Flaubert, Nabokov, Woolf, Tolstoy. All of those writers have helped me massively in forming an unconscious sense of what should or shouldn't be changed when drafting. Read essays, too, Orwell's and Woolf's are great, as are DFW's, and poetry here and there also helps develop an aesthetic taste. Put it into practice by consistently writing, try knock out a short story every ten days then move onto the next one. It really doesn't take that long to produce a 3k or 4k word short story. The real magic happens in the polishing stage, which is where all that beauty you subconsciously assimilated while reading steers you to make the right choices.

>What is your day job?
I'm a civil servant and tend to write in the morning during my commute, on weekends, and occasionally lunch breaks. Very often I'll read instead, though. If you don't read you won't make it.

>Publishing
I was convinced as a straight white conservative male I didn't have a chance, but I've been published fairly quickly. Erika Krouse has a list of 500 lit mags, google it and pick ones that match the sort of style of your writing. If you write genre fiction, you don't want to submit to a literary journal, etc. Also make sure your manuscripts are properly formatted, with correct font and size, margins, spacing, indentation, etc. Generally, though, just write a really good story - that's what it comes down to.

>>19175671
Excellent excerpt; it reads like a professional piece.

>>19175798
Thanks, anon, I appreciate it. I'm finding the novel a lot more of a slog than the short stories, but I'll get there in the end I'm sure.

>scroll through thread looking for improvement tips
>"bro don't worry whatever you're writting is just a first draft"
But i'm writting serially. I don't have time for this fuckery

>>19175827
>But i'm writting serially.
There was your first mistake

>>19175827
Worm was also written serially and the author published on the first takes. I'm also serializing and mostly publish on first talked. it's tough but you'll manage.

>>19175827
What do you mean you don't have? What about selling 2nd draft on patreon?

>>19176021
You are a slimeball anon but you're taking money from idiots who don't know better so I can respect you for it.

>>19176176
>slimeball
You can just live knowing that if paypigs weren't giving you their money, it would go to someone else who writes rpglit novels for a living

Going to need an index for my book just before self-publishing, since it's nonfiction. Should the index be the literal last thing I get done before publishing? From what I can tell, all that remains is one final look over by an editor, making sure all the reference notes at the end properly correspond to the core text, the index, and to save the finalized PDF from InDesign to send to the printer. I probably could attempt to do the index myself, but I also have the money set aside that I can get a pro who actually knows how to make one right to do it.

Anyone got “warm-up” exercises for writers? Like how an artist will draw sketches to keep the skills sharp when they’re inbetween works.

Nobody here actually writes. LOLLERS I GOT YOU GUYS GUD!!!

>>19176603
I write lots of words in my head though

Hello all, I'm new to writing and decided to try writing a short story before jumping into a novel. Does anyone have any critiques for me?

https://pastebin.com/haUuUZzr

>start reading Walden
>instantly, melancholy pervades my writing

>>19176827
Unless you're still in high school, knock it off.

>youtube webnovel reviewer reviews my story
>He really likes it and says it would be perfect if adapted into an anime
No one may care but I'm so proud of myself that I'm making it this far. We're ALL gonna make it bros!

>>19176679
THESE ARE THE ONLY STORIES THAT MATTER
>THESE ARE THE ONLY STORIES THAT MATTER
... But, yeah, I guess I can, uh, put em on paper, too, y'know.

>>19177064
I'd rather have an audiobook first, but any kind of movie or anime deal would be the dream.

>>19175425
You get a pen or keyboard, and write.

>>19176603
I do 2k+ daily on weekdays, and when my temp job ends, I'll be doing edits on weekends too.

>>19160543

Lifting heads - alan jackson

THe mother goos left her egg uptown. She was now down. Mute to the silence
offracking and goat-herding. Leave everything on the sideboard. Mannilla
envolope besuds isall the saw.


"run-a-mile" she quoted rigbht in the front of theat durtbol.

Helena boomerangered her way out oif fragitly ooppisiytrethe bus stop.

Leave the book here she thoough. Its decent skin INt he end.

And she sid lafter behind her.Lifes a comedy and i aint taking part.like
a gun it rang. YEllow socs were not her favourotoe.

Berkley and zimerbman wwre lifjke that. Dion Grace and David Lynch couldnot grasp even the tounge of this kinda' carry on.

fUTURE seemed so distant. like egypt at war at war with warts. robocop hesistant she enlisted the faith of magnet for that last scapí.

ton of brickqs andlast remark said the clown. crown or not. everyone was goin' unda.

How do I stop myself from spending too much time thinking about a plot and setting to the point it gets out of control before I've written much down?

>>19177385
You actually sit down and write instead of dancing around in your own head like a queer fairy

>>19168487
>>19168519
I see you browse schlock threads. seriously, YA was a blight but at least it pretended to be serious literature. litRPGs are just the zoomerfication of the industry setting in. in the future books will be delivered by text messages and be 30% words 30% emojis and 40% gifs.

>one day, we all become history
I don't remember where I lifted this from but now you can use it if you want to

>>19177425
And you found this quote... profound? That's really embarrassing, anon.

>>19177432
Did I say it was profound? I do like it though.

>>19177473
>>19177425
There are a million different ways to say this better.

>One day, we all become history.

>refuse to put my pet project to paper for 2 years
>working it out in my head but never satisfied with what I have
>agonizing over finding the most effective beginning that would both captivate readers and set up the themes and start the cascade of events which would also then have to tie into how it ends
>suddenly the perfect opening reveals itself to me today
>everything aligns in every possible category
>perfectly in harmony with my favorite option for the ending

I knew I was right to avoid committing to a draft, I would've never even entered the headspace to think of this if I stuck with my original option. It was so obvious too, now it seems so strange I missed it all this time.

>>19177622
nice

>>19177537
Can you think of some I can steal?

>>19175671
nice prose. what a coincidence too that i just read my first o'connor yesterday (a good man is hard to find). thanks for the answers, anon.

>>19177622
This happens to me all the time, very happy for you. Sometimes you're not procrastinating, it's just you know in you're gut you're not ready. I hate the "Just do it!" crowd. I'd rather spend 2 weeks writing out something great in a flurry of productivity than agonizing and hating something for 2 months that always comes out shit. Sounds like you're having the same moment. Good luck!

>>19161500
Nice work

>>19177637
Look up the concept of the second death, the nonbiblical version. The idea that someone experiences two deaths, the first when you die and the second when the last time your name is ever spoken.

I hate how I can pick any random story on Royal Road and it has more followers than mine despite me being over 100 chapters now
I don't really know where else to put my story though, seems hard to find an audience anywhere

>>19167109
>made my first 22 cents this morning.

Well fuck. Now I'm a professional.

>>19177842
Buy ads here and turn yourself into a living meme. We have proof that it works.

Best way to self-publish a hardback and ebook?

>>19177842
>royal road
>100 chapters

Well, there's two of your problems.

>>19178044
what did he mean by this

>>19178050
I think he means that if you post on Royal Road you're shit, and if your book has a hundred chapters its bad.

But I can't read his mind.

>>19178074
Ugh! You couldn't possibly be more wrong in your interpretation!

I'm saying that if you post on Royal Road you're BAD, and if your book has a hundred chapters it's SHIT.

>>19178074
>and if your book has a hundred chapters its bad
What kind of bizarre logic is this

>>19178095
Unless each of those chapters is little more than 1,000 words long, then your book is probably just full of padding and unnecessarily drawn-out plot elements.

>>19178105

>>19178095
>What kind of bizarre logic is this

The logic is if you can't get to the point faster than that you're a bad storyteller.

Longer isn't better.

At the end of the day discovery writing without the ability to go back and change what you’ve written is just poison to a story. Maybe it can be a fun little experiment to tie yourself up with serial writing just to see what comes of it but any talk of it being anywhere close to as effective as a real writing procedure only deserves comparison to the Special Olympics.
>yeah it came out like shit but when you look at how handicapped I was..

>>19178095
Either it's a sprawling, rambling mess or you're doing some kind of weird jump-cut structural experiment which you probably aren't clever enough to pull off.

>>19177842
Is your fiction a litRPG? Does it have harem/romance tags? Do you give unnecessary titles to each chapter? Does your patreon include discord perks? Hit at least three of these boxes

>>19178639

>>19178639
>Do you give unnecessary titles to each chapter?
dare i ask what you mean by this?

everyone in this thread needs to run and watch squid game before they get spoiled now

>>19178789
or I can not watch it and not care if it gets spoiled...

>>19178789
>generic death game trope that is overused in manga gets ported to 3dpd
>normies applaud their newfound masterpiece
This is just like books/movies

>>19178789
yeah, they said the same thing about Game of Thrones, The Hunger Games, and the Joker. I couldn't be fucked watching any of them and now they're no longer relevant to pop culture, unlike the Simpsons. Putting a Lindy Bet on the Simpsons seasons 1-9

>>19178789
Is that an anime? I don't really watch anime. I've seen one in my entire life. Maybe two, if the other one counts. But I'm pretty sure this thread would call me an anime writer just because I like to have fun when I put my pen to paper.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm not going to watch an anime like some kind of degenerate, so get to the point and say what you want to say.

>>19178994
Nah brah, it's a Korean (sci-fi?) series on Netflix which normies love. The production design looks lit af, like most Korean things.

>>19178994
Nah it's cheap Netflix gook drama predictable trash

>>19178789
you watch tv shows? ngmi

Which one is the worst genre? YA, xianxia or LitRPG?

What are some good questions to ask yourself when you're in a rut with your writing?
I really like borrowing from the acting tradition of Stanislavski and really getting into the character's head, shit like
>Is this space public or private?
>Are they hot or cold?
>What is the core of the play [or I guess 'novel'] - the thing without which is cannot exist?
What are some others you like to ask?

>>19179062
>schizophrenic story pacing
>fights fights fights filler
>protagonist is always into some cultivator shit
>characters are chinks with weird as fuck hard-to-remember names
>bloated all light novel main pages
Fuck Xianxia.

>>19179103
"characters" are a made-up thing and they don't have any "heads" for me to get into. writers who talk about their characters being "real to them" and "directing the story" and all that shit are always fucking terrible. to produce writing i need to be attuned to language so i read to get ready instead of playing the sims in my head.

>>19179301
Anon your diatribe doesn't answer the question of what are good questions to ask yourself when you're in a rut with your writing. Please remedy that.

>>19179116
What's the difference between Xianxia and Wuxia?

>>19179062
just normal fantasy. all that retarded meme shit is embarrassing but it's just nonsense for little kids, fantasy fiction has been around for decades and seemingly smart people write and read it and give each other important-sounding awards for it, so it's way more shocking how unsalvageably bad it all is.

>>19179323
Wuxia translates to Swordsman, I believe. While Xianxia is more generalized story about cultivation of oneself.

>>19179323
I think Wuxia is a more generalized term like martial arts while Xianxia is wuxia plus some fantasy shit

>>19179315
there aren't any, it's not a therapy session. you should read and then write. you're only making yourself retarded with these self-help tactics.

>>19179103
I self insert into them, then after developing a line of action/thought i filter and modify it a little by taking in account their personality traits

>>19179343
No questions about structure, about form, about allusions? No of course not, because if you did have any will to critique your own work you'd be a much more persuasive writer, instead you absolutely fail to convince me.

>>19179359
What specific questions do you ask while writing though?

>>19179365
of course your favorite "writing for dummies" youtube channel is going to be more convincing than me relating my own lived experience because self-help is expertly engineered to sooth your dumbass anxieties with a "foolproof" strategy of questions to ask and flowcharts to follow. the reality that absolutely nobody can tell you how and what to write is "unconvincing" because it's not the shit you want to hear.

characters, structure, form, "allusions" are what is discovered in the process of writing. i don't figure them out ahead of time with "questions", i find them by reading what i wrote yesterday.

>>19179367
Regarding character behavior in specific, i often go through a process of:
>is the character supposed to be displaying x emotion in this scene right now?
>if yes, how much on a scale of 1 to 10?
Then depending on the number i start activating mental notes of how clearly this will be influencing their usual modus operandi through actions and dialogue. You would think it's something pretty simple, almost not worth mentioning, but with this concept in mind you avoid the narrative mistake of being too "monochromatic" in a moment were you shouldn't be for the sake of characterization.

>>19179315
Stop being retarded

>>19177842
Have a look at your starting chapters, see if they are on par with your latest quality-wise. Try not to rewrite the plot, just tidy them up.

>>19179418
I was thinking more generally, I was just using the Stanislavski ones about character because they were the first to come to mind.
I didn't anticipate the other anon would have a hilarious sperg out.

>>19178639
What is litrpg?

>>19179639
Write a chart like
>anonymous-kun stats:
>HP: 2130/2130 Mana: 1042/1042 >XP:6000000
>STR: 20
>INT: 40
>DEX: 30
>[+]
>SKILLS:
>First Draft
>Inane prose
>Comma
>STATUS:
>obesity meter 3/10
>trans-formation meter 6/10
And copypaste this tab inside your chapters multiple times

>>19179639
Basically, it read like a recording of a tabletop game, including all of the spreadsheets.

>>19179782
People read that?

>>19179807
Apparently, yes.

>>19179820
Name one bestselling LitRPG novel

>>19179863
>bestselling
As if being a bestseller guarantees that the book earns more than a webnovel with a big patreon/subscriber number.

>>19179408
>the virgin: have I remained faithful to the tone established in other chapters? Is this action dealt too flippantly and made to seem to inconsequential? Are the phrases not Germanic enough, does the poetic Latin-roots undercut the earthiness of these characters and this part of the story?
>the chad: "that's right I never ask questions. hehe words go brrrrrr"

My daily 2k is done, I am now one step closer to big-booby dragon lady.

>>19179863
Want a blackpill? Go to the top read litRPGs on RoyalRoad and check their patreon. You will be amazed to see how many people pay for digital waste

>>19179927
>this greentext was brought to you by the litRPG general

>>19160592
Try hitchhikers guide, it has alot of good set ups but does kinda dragged on sometimes. Haven't gone around to finish the last book of the series

Will be browsing thread
Is there any available material on grammar and specifically syntax? Im talking grade two shit with pronouns and things and then eventually making my way up to a highschool reading level again. My literacy has fallen and I bet I am just functionally literate all things considering.
sneed