/lit/ - Literature

>>19143733
what is this

>>19143733
never heard of it senpai tbqh

>>19143733

>>19143753
>>19143760
It's a modern retelling of the Iliad that expands on the gay love between Patroclus and Achilles. OP is angry it has gays in it.

>>19143733
It's okay. Prose reminded me of Hemingway but more teenage and gay

>>19143775
>Patroclus and Achilles
Them niggas were definitely gay though

>>19143775
>It's a modern retelling of the Iliad
it's almost entirely invented by the author.
>OP is angry it has gays in it.
You have to be supremely retarded to suggest respect for the classics is rooted in homophobia. The Iliad has no lack of gayness.

>>19143733
>Universal literacy was a mistake.
Waahh a woman wrote it and they are gay, but not the based kind of gay wahhh so I'm going to whine about it on 4chan

>>19143800
>it's almost entirely invented by the author.
so just like the original iliad?

>all of these seething poltroons failing miserably at misdirection

>>19143820
>>19143733
Is it a bad book? Yes. Should all women be killed or chained? Also yes. But I ask you /lit/, in practical and immediate terms, what is to be done?

>>19143774
>check out the rest of the list
>it's ALL self help books or YA literature
>this on a fairly 'niche' website for pirating ebooks

Everywhere I go I see women reading this book.

>>19143733
A girl I was trying to fuck a few years ago told me about this when I said I was reading the Iliad. I said I'd consider reading it but I knew I never would read it. It seems to be popping up a lot, I see it in irl shops more often these days

>>19143733
The thing I like the least is that the title makes it sound much more intricate than it is. If it was titled "Gay Iliad" it would have 1/10th of the sales

>>19143787
>>19143775
>all love between men is gay

>>19144302
Plato, Aeschylus and Aeschines describe it as an erotic relationship

>>19144403
t. never been accepted by his peers

>>19144414
Huh? Upset?

You know, clicking on this thread I thought the book would have been an exploration of oral tradition and what might have been lost or gained from a transition to a permanent medium but it turns out it was just an outragebait thread. What a shame.

>>19144293
Idk, I would definitely read a book called "Gay Iliad"

>>19144460
Read Albert Lord and Milman Parry brah

>>19144524
then finish it off with the guy who actually tackles the topic you mentioned, Walter J. Ong. Read Eric A. Havelock as well, preferably before you read Ong, if you want to be a completionist.

>>19143733
>female take on a story
>always adds faggots
what is it with women? do they really not understand the concept of friendship and comradery? are the incels right and women dont know what friendship is?

>>19143733
Sorry for blogposting but
>have a gf who reads very basic /lit/, YA and whatnot
>starts complaining about how I don’t give a crap about what she reads
>read some book a friend recd me
>she complains even more because I’m influenced by my friend but not her, start feeling kinda bad, might give her a chance
>she starts reading this book, says I would enjoy it (I’d recently read the Iliad)
ok I will give it a try
>check what the book is about
>mfw

Maybe if you weren’t a dumb normie I’d read your fucking suggestions reeeee
The fact that she thought I would like this was kinda insulting desu senpai

>>19144575
>>female take on a story
>>always adds faggots
Aeschylus was the first (surviving) playwright to depict Achilles and Patroclus as homosexual and he was a million times more manly than you will ever be. He was a war hero

>>19144575
pretty sure every source but homer has them as eromonos and erastes. homer is just anti-homo

>>19143775
dude it's gay porn for straight women and patroclus is even designed to be a female self-insert like these things usually are. what a joke. why are we pretending some silly pornography is literary?

>>19144403
And? How would they know?

>Reviewing The Song of Achilles for The Guardian, Natalie Haynes commended the novel as "more poetic than almost any translation of Homer" and "a deeply affecting version of the Achilles story."[5] Mary Doria Russell similarly praises the novel in her review for The Washington Post, favorably citing its "prose as clean and spare as the driving poetry of Homer."[6] In his review for The New York Times, Daniel Mendelsohn criticized the book's structure, and in particular, its tone. He compares the book unfavorably to young adult literature, describing The Song of Achilles as "a book that has the head of a young adult novel, the body of the Iliad and the hindquarters of Barbara Cartland." He also compared the novel's prose to SparkNotes and softcore pornography.[7]
kek

>>19144637
yeah but it's gross women schlicking to hyperfeminine gay men with completely fantastical ideas about homosexuality and homosociality.

>>19144650
God dmmnit, women are pathetic
How does take herself seriously after something like this is beyond me, zero self awareness

>>19144637
He wasn't talking about men you dumbfuck

>>19144647
You might as well ask how Homer knew, or how anyone knew anything about any of their mythological heroes and deities
>>19144662
Is it any worse than guys jacking off to lesbians

>>19143828
stop glowing, glowie

>>19144650
>more poetic than almost any translation of Homer
>a yaoi fanfic written in prose is more poetic than literal poetry

>>19144667
What? I’m pointing out that the first recorded person to “add faggots” to the Iliad was a man (and a quintessentially manly one, according to Aristophanes)

>>19143733
>W*MYNS LIT
why bother? pic relis the average femcel who is even reading this garbage

>>19144650
>w*myn reviews a book by a w*myn and makes propaganda tier write-up about it
colour me shocked. do not read anything by w*myn because it is pseud, forced, and gets platformed based solely by other femcels

it is not surprise the latest book from the femcel w*myn dyke pant suit wearing cult is trying to demonize male-to-male relations. they want to make men docile, homos... walking jokes that cannot be masculine (masculinity = freedom = resistance to tyranny remember that). reminder that in neolithic pre-neolithic europe the "men" were living in longhouses..20-30 retards eating slop off the floor while fat, disgusting looking matriarchs ruled over their swamp. it wasn't until the patriarchal Indo-Aryans came and genocided this disgraceful culture that Europe became great. remember that all the greats in Europe were descended from indo-aryans. the greeks, the romans, etc.... all indo-aryan traditions. the femcels know this and thus need to try and revise history - especially beacuse lately many men are rejecting this shitty society in favor of rediscovering alternative life.... of free life w*myn naturally hate freeedom mind you

>>19143805
Well... no, because all Homer did was take mythological stories that had been told and passed down for generations and write it down as poetry. The mere fact that the Iliad takes place over such a short period of time during the Trojan War, and that the rest of the war was written into poems by other writers and most were completely lost to time, shows that Homer didn't invent shit.

>>19144668
>Is it any worse than guys jacking off to lesbians
who does this? never heard of it before. seen people mention it a lot for some reason. granted i don't know anything about porn. meanwhile i see this fujo, etc. shit in normal places.

anyway, all of this is fine so long as you don't pretend you're writing anything other than masturbation material. you're not writing something pure. you're not writing something historical. you're writing something literary. i think porn and people's consumption of it is always gross so i don't want to see that shit in normal places i happen upon. it's like fetishists crossdressing in public.

>>19144650
Didn't know the New York Times could be so based.

>>19144683
you swallowed BAP's entire cock didn't you

>>19144692
No i am an archaeologist that pre-dates BAP. I have been talking about this in lectures since 2014.
not my problem you don't read.

>>19144683
>they want to make men docile, homos... walking jokes that cannot be masculine (masculinity = freedom = resistance to tyranny remember that)
You’re so close anon, you just need to make one more step before you’re fully redpilled…
“In Ionia and many other places ruled by barbarians, it [male eros] is shameful. Yes, it is actually held to be shameful by the barbarians, along with philosophy and the love of exercise, due to their tyranny; for it is not, I think, to the advantage of the rulers to have great thoughts engendered in those ruled, nor strong friendships and associations, which Eros above all others is especially wont to instil. Tyrants, in fact, have learned this by actual deeds; for the Eros of Aristogeiton and the Philia of Harmodius, steadfastly abiding, overthrew their rule. Thus, where it is settled that it is shameful to gratify lovers, it is settled by the badness of those who settled it, by the overreaching of the rulers, by the cowardice of the ruled…”
—Pausanias’ speech in the Symposium

>>19144694
cool if true, share your sources

>>19144690
>anyway, all of this is fine so long as you don't pretend you're writing anything other than masturbation material. you're not writing something pure. you're not writing something historical. you're writing something literary. i think porn and people's consumption of it is always gross so i don't want to see that shit in normal places i happen upon. it's like fetishists crossdressing in public.
Anaemic view of art, very Protestant notion that eroticism ought to be expunged from art

>>19144704
Start with the Venus of Willendorf. I'm assuming you aren't European because this is common knowledge here.

>>19144706
>very Protestant
The best artists are culturally protestant. Debate me.

>>19144694
I am in school to become an archeologist and am very interested in this topic any advice?

>>19144620
Maybe its time you sat her down, took her phone away for the evening, and forced her to listen to you recite the Iliad

>>19144745
A classic paper is The Warriors Beauty by Paul Treherne. Read that and the works cited.

>>19144745
This is an OK introduction - keep in mind the author has to make a billion disclaimers about LE HECKIN NASHESES because you can't write anything these days due to w*myn, femcels, and dour-faced camel looking left0ids who want to turn archaeology into a political science.

>>19144767
Not him, but do you happen to know any other interesting material about the topic (besides Dumézil)?

>>19144760
>>19144767
I read the horse the wheel and language and came to the same conclusion but I'll definitely check out that article thanks anon. Any career advice? Is it actually realistic that I can make a living off of researching the aryans?

>>19144780
Yes and no. You will need to push hard to become a professor most likely. Archaeology is a strange field, especially these days. However you can also make a lot of money on the side doing jobs as as a surveyor, etc. Not sure what country you are in, but in mine this is a viable option.

>>19144777
about matriarchy in europe in the neolithic era...?

>>19144797
I'm in the US unfortunately but I've thought about getting my phd in europe

>>19144797
I should have clarified, I meant (P)IE history/culture/linguistics in general.

>>19143733
I listened to it on audiobook.
It was ok up until Achilles and Patroclus, despite both being gay for each other, are forced to fuck the author self-insert character - a sheltered spoiled white girl princess.
I stopped it there. The mood was ruined. I was reminded of why I discriminate against women authors / academics.

>>19143733
literal yaoi fanfic

>>19144524
>>19144530
Thanks a ton

>>19143733
People are always like “it’s a modern retelling of the Iliad” as one of its selling points while never having read and never intending to read anything by homer.

>>19144650
Even the jews hate it. Kek

>>19144825
based
>I don't hate it because of the portrayal of gays, I hate it because it was written by a woman

>>19143733
te

>>19143733
I'm going to go on a tangent, but here goes.
The claim that Achilles/Patroclus' relationship has a modern day equivalent in homosexual ships is problematic. So is the absolutist claim that if men in antiquity engaged in same sex relations then that makes them "gay". Obviously, these people didn't view same sex relations with the same lens or apply the same labels that we apply nowadays. 2 men of similar social ranking, or different may fall in love with one another and act on that passion via sex. The idea is that same sex relations could not be based on just lust (as modern homos) but need to transcend a moralist, ideal and reach the pinnacle of Eros. Thus, "Love" between 2 men is an umbrella term for friendship, companionship, trust, brotherhood, being soul buddies (as well as butt buddies). No one is denying that the sacred band of thebes weren't casually fucking each other in the barracks, but narrow down their relationships to the simple term "homosexual" is doing them an immense disservice, as that ideal of brotherhood has no real life modern equivalent. Not really.
For the Achilles/Patroclus bond, given that many artists in antiquity took liberties with the interpretation of the text, that bond became a vehicle to communicate the resident playwright's views. Thus Aeschylus turned Achilles into the elder, because if he was going to keep his headcanon about the penis flapping, he couldn't have a mighty warrior such as Achilles be the passive partner. Plato was the one who solidified their relationship as the ultimate marriage between Eros and Philia.
Any modern day retelling of this, especially by woman, is sure to miss some of "Philia" nuances and put more emphasis on "Eros". It's true that women writers dabble more in the sentimental narrative of their characters, but they sort of miss the mark on what makes masculine companionship unique, and either write exclusive no homo macho friends, or extreme "I wuv you" flaming queers.

>>19144647
They were temporally closer to homer

>>19144809
Gimbutas and Renfrew but not all of their theories are supported by the mainstream (anymore)

>>19143733
agreed

>>19144460
it's definitely an exploration of someone's oral traditions, if you catch my drift

>>19144646
gay porn is really weird when you think about it. You hear stories about gay women trying to stop their sexuality being fetishised, so you'd think that they were copping the most shit from horn-dogs. But then you have something like this, an obvious and observable trend of gay men in what is effectively women's equivalent of porn.
Is their something about homosexuality that is attractive to straight people? If so, what is it? Is it just as simple as their being twice as many tits or dicks as per usual, then stuffed with pandering to the gender that happens to be their target demographic?

there is only one good gay author

>>19144650
Based Jew defending the Western Canon

>>19145273
>is their something about
For straight women, it's two intense, masculine characters combined with sexual tension, and that's hot for them.

>>19143733
Are we just going to pretend that no one ever wrote this kind of shit prior to the last few decades? Half of literature is just fucking fan fiction, and half of that is gay fanfic at that.

>>19145256
kek

>>19144683
Have sex

>>19143787
You ever read the Iliad? The gay shit was made up later.

>>19143733
>it's a woman takes a minor footnote in Pltuarch's histories and turns him into the one true love of a historical conqueror, thereby reshaping the entire academic narrative around said conqueror's sexuality for decades to come

I love these episodes. Based roasties revising history episode

>>19145428
the iliad where patroclus and achilles were sleeping in the same tent while the rest of their nation were dying on the battlefield? yes, I've read that one

>>19144683
>latest book
This book is 10 years old retardcel

>>19143733
universal literacy wasnt a mistake lol. if you are angry about the gay stuff then grow up. when women read about bonds of brotherhood forged in hardship or war, their mind thinks 'well they are gay obviously.' thats why picrel existed and was taken seriously. its just women being women.

>>19145296
Most good authors are at least bi-curious. You can't be a good writer if you ignore the beauty of manliness.

>>19145273
There are a few studies about it. There's also a Goodreads poll made a few years ago, with a lot of comments by women: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/71069-why-do-you-read-m-m-romance-books-bc-why-straight-women-love-gay-romanc

>>19145871
Why do heteros think male love has to be non-sexual.

>>19145829
sleep = gay

i like the book, its entertaining.

>>19146076
what would make you even question whether they were gay? If homer was describing the intercourse?

>>19143733
i was honestly moderately hopeful for this book. my expectations were exactly midbrow and it plunged to the litosphere.
dropped about a 1/3 in because it was so bland and weightless. I've read literal fanfiction by schoolgirls (which op pic is most often likened to) with far better conflict escalation and character depth.

>>19143733
women were a mistake

>>19145296
rare mishima
saved

>>19146758
did you know that comrade comes from soldier you divide bed with? fags keep trying to change history to justify their behavior.