/lit/ - Literature

>>19100482
Too close to Guenon. We finally drove that fag out of here can't have some acolyte of his sneaking back in

>>19100482
Association with annoying schizo e-celebs like Roosh and that black guy.

>>19100496
Kabane and Truglia are the most insightful e-orthos, IMO

https://www.youtube.com/user/kabanethechristian

https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/author/craigtruglia/

https://kabane52.tumblr.com/

I am a Protestant, I do not hate Eastern Orthodox.

What you have to understand is that Eastern Orthodoxy is foreign to most of the people that frequent this site. Most people then assume that anyone who posts about it is a Western convert hence the accusations of larping. It doesn't help that most Western converts didn't convert because they were convinced of the truth of Eastern Orthodox theology but because they perceived it to be "trad" or "redpilled".

They see the world through internet goggles.

>>19100562
I read a book about the orthodox church and I found it very convincing. They are the only ones that have an unbroken chain of mutual agreement since the times of Jesus. I am not a Christian but if I were going to be one they seem like the logical choice

Certain protestant ideas also seem logically consistent. The catholic church though is blatantly a meme

>>19100482
>other Christian denominations
>implying Satanic paganism is Christian
We worship and pray to only God, come out of Babylon.

I am a roman polytheist or what you would generally call "pagan". I respect all religious traditions but I consider YAHWEH to be the hebrew equivalent of Jupiter.

>>19100487
>We finally drove that fag out
Guenon(pbuh)-posting is eternal

>>19100482
Because I'm a theologian well-read in the history of Christianity.

/lit/ is becoming a Bataillean board. You're next

>>19100562
I did begin attending an orthodox church for 'trad' reasons. I decided to become a Christian and wanted the most unchanging form of it. That line of reasoning quickly gave way to the actual profundity of the faith. The 'foreignness' of it was lost on me, though, because I'm more eastern than orthodoxy is. It's less foreign to me than anything else.

As for Guenon, I confess I don't know who he is. I've heard his name. Sounds french. What's his deal?

>>19100482
Because it's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The gates of Hell are trying to prevail against it (they can't).

>>19100482


1. THERE IS ONLY ONE CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION: CATHOLICAL.

2. IT IS HETERODOX ORIENTAL SCHISMATICISM, NOT: «ORTHODOXY».

3. WHILST CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANIZES THE WORLD —AS COMMANDED BY JESUSCHRIST— «PROTESTANTISM» DECHRISTIANIZES IT, AND ORIENTAL SCHISMATICISM FESTERS IN HERMITAGES.

filioque

>>19100482
I don't hate Orthodoxy. But something about it does subjectively tend to attract tradlarp midwits who only like it because
>it's "trad" and exotic
>they don't like Protestantism because they think it's dumb
>they don't like Catholicism because they don't like its internal politics and the bad press it gets from scandals
It's not bad, but there are a certain group of people who only care about it for meme reasons and are ironically weirdly hostile against other Christian sects even though they were atheist 2 years ago and only (loosely) converted because of memes.

>>19100647
People convert for lots of other reasons than because it's trad (I hit rock bottom with worldly degeneracy and found God), but it is a shame how some converts act

>>19100487
What the fuck is a Guenon? Some kind of cyst or benign tumor?

>>19100562
There is a very strong emphasis on tradition in the Orthodox Church. When you’re a western guy watching trannies being promoted on TV and seeing half the Protestant churches being taken over by dykes who put BLM signs in the church windows it can be a little tempted to seek out a group that isn’t so concerned with being “with the times” that they start unironically advocating to force hormone blockers kids until they decide to pick a gender.

>>19100720
Traditionalist with a capital T. Seraphim Rose was into him before he converted to orthodoxy. Rose is the face of orthodoxy here

>>19100740
When you're dealing with a 2000 year old revealed religion being "trad" is in fact a very logical requirement. I mean any church that is really keeping alive a religious feeling from thousands of years ago is going to seem highly archaic in some ways

>>19100640
Thank you for another insightful post Cum Genius. Another 500 years has been taken off of your time in purgatory.

>>19100482

Converting to Orthodoxy has been a meme from /pol/ for at least a decade. Matt Heimbach is the most prominent example.

>>19100774
Fatt Hambag

Hello. Are there any fellow Dyerbros here??

>>19100774
Yeah but he was literally excommunicated for being a retard

>>19100786
I was. I introduced David to Jay. David is my buddy. Jay is cool, but I don't have much appetite for apologetics right now.

The Orthodox Church seems to be the only one resisting the covid jab (preparation for mark of the beast) in large numbers.
Of course there are more liberal Orthodox who promote the jab but many are strongly against it.
Even "conservative" southern Baptists and Catholics are all getting jabbed.

>>19100591
>anon claims to worship Disney characters
>zero(0) accusations of LARPing
>anon claims to follow one of the worlds largest religions
>REEE FUCKING INTERNET LARPER WANNABE REDPILLED “TRAD” LARPER LARP LARP LARP
Hmm…

>>19100800
Do you mean this David?? He is cool.
https://youtu.be/9vpeWc-sBjY

>>19100806
T.

>>19100601
>Guenon (pbuh)
Based

>>19100805
Bitchin robe. Is he a wizard?

>>19100822

>>19100827
Looks like early 2010s streetwear lol

>>19100827
Is that skull and crossbones on the hood? Orthodox is cooler than I thought.

Any COTELbros here???
https://youtu.be/s7zTsu4X7X0

The only major Christian communities that jumped onto contemporary e-reactionary nonsense like anti-vaccination were ROCOR and SSPX. SSPX is on the verge of excommunication so ROCOR it is.

>>19100496
how do you even know or care about these people? this post wreaks of faggots who love ecelebs becoming insecure about "bad guy" ecelebs who their "team" opposes

>>19100562
Why the fuck would you choose to be Protestant?

>>19100647
>>it's "trad" and exotic
Only as exotic as fucking olive oil dude. You forget we all live in a Post-Christian world and are deeply impacted by Christian ideals. Even the enlightened liberal Atheists have preserved a massive chunk of Christian morality(minus sexual morality because what a surprise they’re all faggots) with their universalist human rights centered secular religion.
Nobody spergs out about the actual LARPing that goes on all over the West but especially in places like California with neurotic white women calling themselves “Buddhists” and doing “”””””Yoga”””””” talking about chakras and other nonsense that they have completely ripped from an entirely alien culture and largely jammed into the Jesus shapes gaps left by post-Christian materialism.

>>19100482
Huh I didn't know people hated orthodoxy. I was raised with it since I'm Serbian and recently educated myself on what regular Christianity is like; I still prefer orthodoxy. I am likely biased for being more familiar with it though.

>>19100853
Do you know Borat?

Ancient Faith Radio is run by liberal subversives and they banned Abbot Tryphon for saying that he won't be getting jabbed.
One of the AFR guys has also been publicly insulting Jay Dyer and Fr Peter Heers.
Pic related is a good book by the way anons

>>19100856
? I'm familiar with the movie

>>19100853
Most people who shit on Orthos on the internet aren't mad at Serbs or Greeks, but Americans who call themselves things like AntiFilioqueGroyper1054.

>>19100836
>e-reactionary nonsense like anti-vaccination
How is that nonsense? How can you not see that the covid jab is a prefiguation of the mark of the beast?

On The Cosmic Mystery Of Jesus Christ by Saint Maximus The Confessor is a good book for learning about Orthodox metaphysics and once you see through the Orthodox lens you see how everything comes together coherently and it answers all the questions that other religions and worldviews cannot amswer.

>>19100846
Exotic relatively speaking. Yes, just about any form of Nicene Christianity will be more palatable for Americans than some shit like Jainism. But Orthodoxy specifically is much less in the American consciousness than Protestantism and Catholicism are.

Hell most of Orthodoxy is just the national regional churches of liminal Eastern European countries that are too far-East to be a true part of "the West" but too far-West to be a true part of "the East."

>>19100741
>Seraphim Rose (born Eugene Dennis Rose
I inherently mistrust people who change their name, especially to something as LARPy as Seraphim Rose. A very charlatanesque move.

What I want to know is why Oriental Orthodoxy never got any attention. They split off from Rome 500 years before the eastern Orthos did. Then there's the Church of the East, that split off a few decades before that.

>>19100919
That is Orthodox tradition. You are so used to seeing everything through your cynical nihilistic Internet lens that you think normal tradition is "larping"

>>19100919
He had a boyfriend before he converted. They lived together in San Francisco

>>19100919
Orthodox monks are given new names once they've been doing it for long enough. Their old name is considered dead to the world.

>>19100927
https://youtu.be/gTJm-E5seR4

>>19100774
I doubt more than a dozen /pol/acks converted to any Christian denomination. Much more likely to join some Neo-pagan LARP

>>19100932
That doesn't matter at all, once he converted he left all of that behind

>>19100934
>orthocucks can get "dead named"
That explains why so many troons are becoming orthodogs all of a sudden

>>19100932
We all know this. He was honest about it. What are you trying to prove? He didn't try to hide his sins. He turned away from that San Francisco lifestyle and spoke very honestly of how evil it was.

>>19100630
>What's his deal?
He is the most important thinker of the 21st century, I would highly recommend reading his books

>>19100945
It would definitely matter to the conservative crowd. That's why you see that left out of so many of his official biographies.

>>19100956
It wasn't left out of his biography. It talked about his time with the Alan Watts school in San Francisco. He talked about how evil all that stuff was.
You seem to be trying to do some sort of character assassimation but he never tried to hide this. He turned away from it.

>>19100932
do you think he was the catcher or pitcher?

>>19100946
Orthodox condemn trannyism and all other gnostic heresies.
Ancient Faith Radio does not represent of all Orthodoxy by any means.

>>19100956
Everybody knows that Rose was a gay guy. The bigger Rose controversies are over his hardline stances on young earth creationism and aerial tollhouses, which are why he will probably never be canonized.

>>19100973
>his hardline stances on young earth creationism
How is that controversial?
Evolution is not compatible with Orthodoxy.

>>19100580
>The catholic church though is blatantly a meme
This. Although my Protestant denomination specifically believes the institution of the Pope is the Anti-Christ so I’m naturally biased

>>19100993
Pope Francis is clearly an Antichrist figure. Maybe not the final Antichrist, but certainly of the Antichrist spirit.

>>19100845
Maybe because I am convinced of the truth of our theology.

>>19101005
All I’m saying is, keep a look out for Climate Sunday. Shit is gonna get real from then on out

>>19101040
>Climate Sunday.
what is that?

>>19101040
Elaborate pls. My years on /pol/ taught me that nothing ever happens but I did not see Corona coming and it seems like normality may be over

>>19100765
I kek'd

>>19100904
Point is there’s nothing truly exotic about these churches. Majority of secular Americans would have a hard time distinguishing an Orthodox Church from a Catholic one or really any church that isn’t one of the tacky evangelical megachurches/abandoned warehouse/strip mall churches where the preacher is a guy in ripped jeans with an acoustic guitar.
For someone who is post-Protestant or even post-Catholic, Orthodoxy might make a lot of sense because it’s one of the least overtly political religious institutions in the US. Mainline protestantism has collapsed into just Harvard/Yale secular humanism. The evangelicals have married themselves to the Republican Party. The Catholics have their own giant weighty Global bureaucracy complete with trillions in assets, huge PR scandals, politically active members on both sides and a pope who seems too eager to be seen as a reformer, as modern, and seemingly thinks of tradition as “backwardness”.

But again, the fundamental question here becomes “is any of this stuff true?” Are you joining a church to be a believer and be saved and participate in God’s creation in the manner laid out to us by Jesus Christ or are you just looking for a refuge from Globohomo during this flare up of (satanic) revelry? If some “based” candidate gets elected in 8 years and suddenly people go back to thinking trannies are just mentally ill people, that black people aren’t objects of worship, that women shouldn’t celebrate ripping their unborn babies from their womb, etc will these people still be interested in Orthodoxy? When the material conditions of the outside world feel a bit more reasonable, level headed, and normal will they drop Christ like a hot potato and go back to normie life?

The Book of Jude is canon.
The Book of Jude quotes from Enoch.
In order for this to make sense, Enoch must be canon.
The only Christians who consider Enoch to be canon are the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo.
∴ the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo is the only church with a full canon.

When I saw that all the """conservative""" evangelical Baptists at my parents' church fell for the covid hysteria and dutifully got jabbed, that solidified for me that something is wrong here and when I see all these Orthodox Christians speaking out against the jab it makes me more and more sure it is the one true Church.
https://youtu.be/_9n3sU_rHJA

>>19100482
friendly reminder that eternal life is the free gift of God with no strings attached if you want to receive it and be 100% sure of going to heaven, watch this gospel video. it's easy to be saved so don't miss out /lit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dqw_fJeBD0&t=9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dqw_fJeBD0&t=9s

>>19101112
>Pastor Steven Anderson
heretical maniac

>>19101097
That's a silly heuristic. Anti-vaccination among protestants dates back to the Birchers. SSPX priests and their parishioners are strongly against it.

>>19101136
I am talking specifically about the covid gene altering drug, not vaccines in general.

>>19101045
>>19101046
Sunday Law

>>19101092
>retarded line of thinking
Paul quotes Greek plays, are they canon too?

>>19101205
???

>>19100934
Should have just picked a non meme name like “Gregory”

>>19100928
It may be but for an American to rename himself “Seraphim Rose” when there are 1,000 non meme names you could pick out of the orthodox tradition is highly suspect, especially giving his past. This is someone clearly seeking notoriety and looking to exalt themself.

>>19101238
Not the same. The passage in Jude attributes the prophecy to Enoch himself, which implies that Enoch must have written the book the prophecy comes from.

Father Seraphim Rose made a very good critique of scientism.
https://youtu.be/Wxin_8BHMhU

>>19101278
I could quote Yoda and everyone would understand what I was attempting to communicate without needing to assume I believed in Yoda actually being really quoted.

>>19101241
The Church will propose a day of rest, such that there will be discord over its observance by God's Remnant people. The angle is climate change hence Climate Sunday. It is a foothold for the Church to once again exert political power
>inb4 LARP
You’d have to accept a long series of coincidences for that

>>19101264
If he had chosen Serafim with an f and a Balkan last name then at least it’d be less of a meme

>>19101250
You don't pick the name. Your teacher does.

Orthodox and Catholic both need to man up and admit that the Mary perpetual virgin bit came from the late 2nd century fan fictional Gospel of James and that it simply is not knowledge given straight from the apostles to the original church. They need to just admit that they got duped into paganism. In other words, embody repentance. The fact that we know these things but they will not repent is in itself Satanic. They are just too proud to admit that their "Tradition" is not only made up, but anti-Christian.

>>19101054
>Majority of secular Americans would have a hard time distinguishing an Orthodox Church from a Catholic one
And those secular Americans aren't the same as the 20-something men converting to Orthodoxy because of memes and "basedness."

>>19101381
Yeah and I don't understand why they are obsessing over his name anyway. It seems like people who just want to find any reason to attack someone, no matter how petty, so that they don't have to actually deal with what he wrote.

When will we get guys who seriously argue Nestorianism and claim the Church of the East the true church?

Seraphim Rose sounds like it could be the name of one of those Precious Moments statues old ladies collect

>>19101381
Ok well then I can’t fault him but the combo of name + images like this >>19101314 scream “I’m very concerned with my image” to me. Never heard of him or read his stuff tho so I’ll reserve judgement. Yes I am a skeptic and a cynic, but there is nothing wrong with that.

>>19101403
Nestorianism sounds retarded. I do think the Orthodox Church came down on the more sensible side of all these debates over heresy.

>>19100839
Truth be told, even knowing or caring to remember the name of an e-celeb makes you gay.

>>19101395
The Lord works in mysterious ways

>>19100956
I know some very conservative Orthodox and he was given to me as an example to look at for me to overcome my own homosexuality

>>19101413
You should listen and read what he said instead of making ridiculous criticisms of his name or his "image". You haven't made one solid argument against him; just petty bickering.

>>19101449
Im not making any kind of rational argument. Im not Aristotle. What I’m expressing is merely an intuition that someone this memeable and who got into new age bullshit, lived as a gay man, and eventually settled on Orthodoxy and became a Monk of all things in the 20th century gives off major Charlatan vibes. That’s especially compounded by the fact that he’s being shilled in this digital ghetto.
Anons are agents of chaos and you’d be dumb to take anything they say without a massive grain of salt.
There are fags ITT saying they’re picking churches based on their stance on anti-vaxx of all fucking things. You people are mutants.

>>19100946
Nigga what the fuck are these dummies thinking

>>19101505
The covid jab is a preparation for the mark of the beast. Many Orthodox priests are saying as much.

>>19101505
Read Nietzsche, it's obvious Angel Flower Child is the kind of person this was designed for, after all, being from San Francisco and being from St Petersberg are two heads of the same, uh, eagle.

>>19101587
This seems to be a clear indicator that Orthodox "priests" are just plain old ignoramuses like anyone.

It's because of the actions and words of the Dyerites and the converts that we despise them. But this goes for all Christian "upsurges" (death throes) such as Tradcaths and the tent crusade monthly public bible-reading evangelical types that you'll sometimes find. There is no further reason, unless you wish to continue to dehumanize (demonize) your opponents and thus demonstrate why they despise you in the first place.

>>19101651
What do you have against Jay Dyer? Are you one of those people who whine that he is "too aggressive"?

>>19101642
enjoy your myocarditis at age 27, tard

Orthodoxy causes so much seething from liberal and demonic people which is why they desperately make up any insult they can.

>>19101657
Vaporwave /x/ shit doesn't help his credibility. Seems on the same level as Rose wouldn't be surprised if he was ex-gay too.

>>19101668
Are you saying that his talks on secret societies and conspiracies are wrong?

>>19101657
No, the fans are what annoy me. I can tolerate some autistic strongarming, Darth Dawkins prepared me for that

>>19101664
No wonder, everyone who is not Orthodox is by default demonic in their eyes (why else would they not be Orthodox Christians?); unless they are valuable to Orthodoxy, in which case we invoke "Spermatikos logos" and validate them.

>>19100482
e-Orthodox get hate (deservedly) for being even more obnoxious than any other kind of tradfag on the internet. anything they don’t like is literally demonic, they imply everyone but them is going to hell, and the autistic childish stubbornness they have when it comes to any kind of discourse. it is literally “i’m right you’re an evil demon who deserves hell i can’t hear you here i posted a chad jpeg thats me and you’re the soijack” it’s pathetic and obnoxious. orthodoxy itself is fine though, it’s very beautiful and interesting.

>>19100482
how about you grow out of your delusions and stop complaining like a ho

>>19101587
>The covid jab is a preparation for the mark of the beast. Many Orthodox priests are saying as much.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/vaccinate-or-repent-russian-church-says-amid-hundreds-daily-covid-19-deaths-2021-07-05/
sounds like demons have influenced your thinking anon. try not to be too prideful about it

>>19101711
Russia and Orthodoxy confirmed gay

>>19101695
If you believe demons exist it kind of stands to reason that youd see them everywhere. Actually it would explain quite a lot about reality

>>19101136
Maybe not the same vaccine itself, but the whole mentality behind ("you MUST get the jab or else you will not be able to work nor participate in society, and we will have no compassion for those who do not get it.") is clearly a sign of the times.

>>19101711
You cherrypick that one and ignore all the ones who say the opposite.

How many times have we found signs of the times in history? Why are we so eager for everything to end, now? A devalorization of life, or a lack of faith?

>>19101774
There are many Antichrist figures before the final one.

>>19101781
"Many" means nothing. It could be ten, hundreds, thousands, millions. Even a pickup in frequency means nothing, there could just be a later trough.

ITT people prove OP right

I was raised Episcopalian but they’re a really shitty wing of the Democratic party now. An “Anglican” church seems like it’s trying to come off as an autocephalous Ortho church under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome but that’s ultraLARPy.
Vatican II services feel borderline Wesleyan or some shit. I like older Catholic writings, I pray the Rosary and I recognize that traditionally the RC church has been tolerant of Christians like me who have also read Tomberg cover to cover but… that’s not the Vatican II church and it’s not Francis’ church.
I like Hopko. I don’t like the phronema book I have to read for homework and it’s probably going to be a year plus before I take communion. So Ortho is like the least fucked for me but I’m still not 100% sold on it. Life of Moses is a good read though.

>>19101850
Yeah so it seems

>>19101587
Far more likely it’s a cash grab by big pharma

>>19101850
If you had self-awareness you would know why they despise you, but it is far sweeter to believe you are like the prophets.

>>19100765
Only 500,000,000 more years to go

>>19101772
ah yes sorry just cherrypicking from an actual metropolitan of the moscow patriarchate and not your local priest instead how silly of me clearly the orthodox church has made its first mistake in 2000 years.
Anon it sounds like your pride is blinding you. Seek help for those demons inside you.

>>19101852
Episcopalians are like the Wasp version of Ashkenazi

>>19100810
yes

>>19100482
Look at this thread and tell me we aren't being brigaded.

>>19102146
Could all be the same guy like Guenonfag. This orthodoxy shit seems like it would attract autists

>>19102146
What about this thread makes you think the board is being brigaded?

>>19102146
Brigaded by whom are you implying, the Orthodox or antiOrthodox? I doubt either way, there have been countless threads with plenty of both for quite some while so it's obvious the presences are usual.

>>19102181

>>19100833
>>19100810
>>19100786
>>19100858
>>19100805

Not only Orthodox, but also stuff like:
>>19101112

It implies organization

It was a sad loss to the Orthodox literature community. If he had lived another 20 years his writings on the internet would have been astounding. Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future is one of a kind.

>>19102214
People posting books and YouTube links? What do you think organic interest looks like as opposed to this?

>>19102221
He foresaw the "woke" nonsense and the liberal subversion of the church coming even back in the 70s. His writings are even more relevant now than ever. He saw not just the problems of his time as they were then, but where they would lead in the future. He was right.

>>19102234
The odd formatting on >>19100858 and >>19100805 means it's the same person. >>19100833 and >>19100786 are naked posts that don't respond to anything same as the first two

>>19102243
That could just be some autist, I also posted about 20 times in this thread but I just have no life

>>19102234
Organic interest is literally any other post; these just sound like in-group chatter from the Orthodoxy discord channel. "Any COTELbros here?" "Anybody heard of this obscure drama relevant only to us Orthodox?"

C'mon, you really think there's no overlap between this community and another, more organized one?

>>19102243
those were all me!

>>19102243
based fellow schizo. There is a ortho discord for raids here 100%

If you cannot prove that they are not part of a raid, you also cannot prove that they are all you, or not part of a raid. No, posting a possibly inspect elemented screenshot doesn't count.

>>19102258
Well I tend not to but I recognize I'm biased because i have never been part of such a community and I also get accused by people of being a shill sometimes merely for posting in a thread about certain things. I guess it is naive to think there are no little groups who spam stuff but people also get overly paranoid

>>19102270
what do you think is more likely: the orthodox are raiding here to recruit more members and defend the faith or that there is a dedicated group of anti-ortho autists who scour the site for orthodox posters to harass

>>19102275
Your secularism blinds you to the third possibility. Demons.

>>19102280
demons harassing orthodox posters on an anime imageboard? those are some pathetic demons

>>19102275
Ortho, definitely. Man, I waste enough time here on a daily basis to notice trends in numbers of people arguing for positions/shilling positions and the types of threads being constantly made (usually innocuous questions designed to evangelize via theological loredump/discussions). It's turf war

>>19102280
kek
>>19102293
kek

>>19102293
You are literally using computers and smartphones that are powered by demons. Do you control them or do they control you?

https://youtu.be/vWzFf_fR_Ds

>>19102275

>>19102340
>claims to believe this
>used them "him"self

>>19102340
this is sufi shit I thought this was an ortho thread

>>19102552
Orthodox are just cryptomuslims after they got conquered

>>19102552
Djinns, demons. Same difference.

>>19100562
>It doesn't help that most converts didn't convert because they were convinced of the truth of Christianity but because they perceived it to be "trad" or "redpilled".
This should be /lit/'s banner

>>19100846
It's fairly exotic, Orthodoxy wasn't the Christianity that shaped the West. Russia in general had/has very little influence in American culture.

>>19100774
>tfw Orthodox convert
>tfw also like Dugin
That retard is like a down syndrome application of those things, I knew about him before I knew about Orthodoxy or Dugin, funny looking back at it.

>>19102448
I hate most Christian memes but the begome meme is funny

>>19102582
>Islam is a pagan satanic religion! Muhammed was quite obviously conversing with a demon!
>oh but they’re right about the demons in the phones though that part is real

>>19102146
There's a ton of Ortho autists online, just get a twitter and follow trad accounts if you don't believe me.

>>19101544
>Nigga what the fuck are these dummies thinking
It's internet ideology, I've seen troons twitters of every variety (communist, libertarian, neoliberal, fascist, nazi, nazbol, stalinist, catholic, orthodox, etc.) When you get ideology from a discord server, it's not hard to reconcile it with being a homo.

>>19102760
as good a reason as any to delete twitter. I remember there was a monkeydonian clown. Never again.

>>19100482
Because historically it only existed in Western Europe and America in diaspora communities from Eastern Europe. With the internet, there's been a wave of easily influenced young people wowed by icons who tout Orthodoxy with convert zeal while having superficial knowledge of it.

>>19100740
You are exactly the type of larper we're talking about. Your reasons for liking orthodoxy are trannies and BLM.

An Orthodox friend told me that my soul was in grave danger because I do some yoga poses each night for my bad back.

Stretching, it seems, is amongst the endless mortal sins that can result in you burning in agony for eternity. Seems fair...

>>19100740
>half
I don't know where you are but around here, and there are a *lot* of churches around here, I only know of *one* that is openly "affirming" (Episcopalian), and not a single one flying any flags.

>>19100876
Your playful trolling is doing more harm than you realise.

>>19103036
Read The True Believer by Hoffer
You'll never be able to take institutional religion seriously ever again, let alone christianity

>>19100973
>young earth creationism and aerial tollhouses
Something that became """disputed""" only with the advent of modernist degeneracy. Those are traditional Orthodox positions every one in the Orthodox world held as a matter of fact until very recently.
>which are why he will probably never be canonized
lol
Show me a single saint saying evolution is real. There are however many canonized saints affirming young earth and toll houses. Only internet people think this is some kind of esoteric and weird subject.

>>19101112
Pastor Anderson is why i fell out with God, he preaches that I should kill myself for being a homosexual (even if I'm not in a relationship like that)

>>19103239
>Those are traditional Orthodox positions every one in the Orthodox world held as a matter of fact until very recently.
actually delusional I doubt you have ever even been in an orthodox church in your entire life

>>19101036
But why? How is a theology which didn't exist in the the Church Fathers worth following if you still rely on them for the being divinely guided in establishing the canon and ecumenical councils establishing Christology, etc? Even if you take bits and pieces from them, you still lack the fullness of the apostolic faith these people believed in. What do you think they got "wrong" and on what basis do you say this?
I personally see Protestantism as a misguided attempt to right the heresies and insanity of the Roman Church, but without actually connecting yourself to the mystical Body of Christ. This is why you guys accept heretical unpatristic doctrines like filioque without much thought, it's mostly just a reaction to Rome in its false ecclesiology and works-based salvation.
Not meant to be an insulting post, I'm genuinely curious.

I also have a question about salvation, do you believe people believing in heresy can be saved?

>>19103239
Bro my entire family on my father's side is orthodox christian (real orthodox not larpers like your internet communities) and pretty much all of them accept evolution as factual, and none of them even know what the fuck an aerial tollhouse is.
You're like those western "buddhists" who know way too much about buddhist philosophy and metaphysics but have no actual fucking clue what it means to be a practicing buddhist. It's really jarring and kind of embarrassing

>>19103353
this is a nice effort but you realize he’s going to say that your family is a bunch of demon heretics right

>>19103379
kek I don't care that post was just a reality check for reasonable observers who aren't too far gone yet

>>19103346
Literally no saint in our history ever suggests that evolution is legitimate. Promoting evolution only became a recent phenomenon amongst some clergy. It's just a new fad which will most likely be condemned later as a form of gnostic heresy.

>>19103353
>and pretty much all of them accept evolution as factual
So? If you lived earlier, your entire family could be Arians or Nestorians (those are easily more consistently arguable from scripture than evolution btw). People believing a view in your environment is not an argument for the truth of these doctrines and them being Orthodox, an argument for your view would be the unanimous acceptance of evolution by Holy Tradition, which is clearly nowhere to be found. On the contrary, death is seen as the consequence of Adam's fall, which outright destroys any possibility of evolution.

>have no actual fucking clue what it means to be a practicing buddhist
Judging by your language, you don't seem to have a clue what it means to be practicing Orthodox either.

>>19103383
I really don't care about your theology, I'm not orthodox, my family is. Just pointing out your extreme larper autism since I've actually met real orthodox, lived with them, talked to them, even went to church with them, and all of them would consider you an unhinged caricature making a parody out of their faith

Once when a certain theologian came near Elder Joseph the Cave-dweller, the elder sensed a bad odour. He brought it to the man’s attention, admonishing him to go and make his confession. As a result, it became clear that the cause of the odour was the theologian’s misguided belief in Darwin’s theory of the evolution of mankind.

With our own eyes we witnessed many instances of his gift of clairvoyance. Once, when Geronda was still at St. Basil’s Skete, he met a layman near the skete’s main church. Geronda approached him and said, “You are making some serious mistake.”

“What mistake?” the layman asked.

“I don’t know,” Geronda replied, “but you are definitely making some serious mistake.”

“Can’t we figure out what it is?”

“Right now in the daytime we can’t figure it out. But if you like, come down to my place at night.”

“All right, Geronda; I’ll come after midnight.”

After midnight, the layman went and met with Geronda. They began discussing things, and it turned out that this layman, even though he had a degree in theology, had written an entire book supporting Darwin’s theory of evolution!

Geronda said to him: “When you present a theory or an opinion, why don’t you draw from the writings of the holy Fathers and Orthodox theologians rather than heretics who aren’t even Christian! A theory or viewpoint becomes fortified when it is confirmed y the Bible or by the holy Fathers of the Church. You will not be welcome here in my hut until you renounce that theory.”

The theologian acknowledged that he had an incorrect viewpoint with this theory and he asked Geronda to tell him how he had recognized it. Geronda answered, “When I approached you yesterday, a stench was coming out of you, and this made me realize that you have made some grave error.” When it came to matters of the faith, Geronda tolerated no deviations.

>>19103400
based orthobros btfoing libtard evolutionist demon heretics with faith and logic god I wish daddy seraphim rose (pbuh) was still alive to witness this sick burn

>>19103383
>says nothing about toll houses being common orthodox doctrine
It was an idea completely forgotten until seraphim rose dug it up (or pieced it together). you know that but you’d rather larp like it’s otherwise

>>19103392
>since I've actually met real orthodox, lived with them, talked to them, even went to church with them
What is your point? I've done all of this too. I live in Russia and anyone in church knows what aerial toll houses are to the point that I would be genuinely shocked to see any church-goer not know about it or have a basic understanding of it. There's also a surprising amount of people who don't believe in evolution or treat it with skepticism.
>making a parody out of their faith
Why do you exclude the possibility of the entirety of your family being in error/ignorance, thus making a parody of the faith they follow? False teachings in the church were common before and them being widespread is not an argument for their truth.

>>19103417
>the possibility of the entirety of your family being in error/ignorance
lmao, it's as the other anon said indeed
I have no stake in this, I'm not even christian so I really don't care either way. I highly doubt you actually live in russia or even among an orthodox community as you say, maybe I'm wrong though. Anyway I'm not interested in their conversation, I only chimed in to point out another instance of larping

>>19103421
>their
this*

>>19100482
Because there is a trend of holier than thou larpers on this board. And I call most pagans larpers too, both really think their religion is all about acting ''based and redpilled'', because that is only thing they themselves care about.

>>19103415
>It was an idea completely forgotten until seraphim rose dug it up
Maybe by 4chan's /lit/ board or liberal westerners, but certainly not the Church, which has been teaching it in modern times (St. Ignatius Bryanchaninov, St. Theophan the Recluse, St. Justin Popovich) before Fr. Seraphim was writing, and we also have prayers referencing them in the liturgy.

>>19103421
>I only chimed in to point out another instance of larping
You didn't point out anything but a group of people in the Church not believing in Orthodox doctrines (or not caring enough about the faith to learn). This has been happening on larger scale before, is common in modernity and not surprising by any means.

>>19103400
>When I approached you yesterday, a stench was coming out of you, and this made me realize that you have made some grave error.”

>>19103436
Like talking to a wall

>>19100482
Mainly demons, and also people losing the ability to believe in God, thus thinking that other people have lost it too. They find it impossible that other people would actually think Orthodox Christianity is true because they instinctively despise it and fear it.

>>19100973
>hardline stances on young earth creationism
The best midwit filter of our times.

>>19103445
>why don't people believe in my religion?
>could it be they simply disagree with the theology, or that they just don't find the faith-based claims believable?
>nah must be demons

>>19103456
Christianity has a built in defense mechanism where being shat on and hated by everyone is a good thing (we're persecuted, it's the end times etc) and you can just conveniently dismiss whatever you find scary and strange as muh demons (some other doctrine makes more sense? it's demonic deception, stop thinking about it). It's very effective, it took years for me to clean my mind from this bullshit but on some level I can understand the people who willingly choose to buy into this since it definitely provides a rigid kind of guidance to those who feel lost and aimless and want what they perceive to be an alternative to modernity

>>19103456
>disagree with the theology
>don't find the faith-based claims believable
This is only a result of demonic influence, cooperating with them and lacking God's grace. It's basically a result of being spiritually blind and unwilling to let Christ heal you.

>>19103459
Case in point here >>19103461
It's extremely pernicious, literally preying on weak minds.

>>19103036
Yoga is inseparable from Hinduism

>>19103280
Please don't let retards like him inform your view of Christianity. He is a heretic and shouldn't be taken seriously. Yes homosexuality is a sin, but you should never give up hope

>>19101092
Based Kangz

>>19103469
>preying on weak minds
A weak mind is the one that is unstable and has no concrete truth, like the atheist's. His mind literally is running all over the place and unable to witness or accept truth as it is, placing too much trust in a clearly defective and susceptible to deception faculty.

>>19103480
Sorry but I've gotten out of the cult.

>>19103484
Instead you've joined another cult, perhaps even unknowingly, which doesn't give you truth.

>>19103492
Nah I'm done with all that stuff, I haven't "joined" anything else although from your cultish perspective I've been misled by demons or whatever other ridiculous concept, but that kind of fear mongering narrative and threats don't affect me anymore. I feel more at peace and fulfilled than I ever have

>>19103496
>turn your brain off
>i feel at peace
I now understand social psychology.

>>19103472

>Yoga is inseparable from Hinduism

Stretching my hip flexors because of my near constant lower back pain is an endorsement of elephant gods?

There really is no hope for the "saved"

>>19103508
>>turn your brain off
I said I've gotten out of the cult, not that I've convered to Christianity. Read slower.

>>19103510
These people will tell you without an ounce of irony that sitting down, closing your eyes and paying attention to your breath is inviting demons into your body. From an outside perspective it's so laughable I have trouble imagining how someone from a non-christian upbringing could take this shit seriously or even entertain the possibility

>>19103520

I agree. However, I must admit than even I still suffer from the "what if?" fear of hell sometimes. It seems that once that seed is planted in your mind, however irrational and nonsensical it appears, the underlying sense of fear and guilt is very hard to escape. It really is the ultimate form of control.

>>19103510
>Stretching my hip flexors because of my near constant lower back pain
This is not yoga though?
Adding some form of codified breathing exercises to this to induce some kind of feeling/emotion (even of calmness, etc) would make it into a form of yoga.

>>19103520
>closing your eyes and paying attention to your breath is inviting demons into your body
Yes, these techniques are known all over the world, they legitimately work in making you more sensitive to the spirits. Christians know about the angelic fall and the fallen angels running rampant all over the earth, so naturally we would say this.

> I have trouble imagining how someone from a non-christian upbringing could take this shit seriously
Most non-modernized/westernized people still have an understanding and experience of a world which goes beyond mere materialism.

>>19103520
>These people will tell you without an ounce of irony that sitting down, closing your eyes and paying attention to your breath is inviting demons into your body
No one will say that except people as retarded as yourself. And have you never heard of Hesychasm? Please don't make claims like that when you are entirely ignorant of Christian traditions and practices,

>>19103559
You too, you are also an idiot. Stop making posts.

>>19103550
>the underlying sense of fear and guilt is very hard to escape
Because every person is made in the image of the Logos. You feel bad in your heart of hearts whenever you wrong Him by doing these behaviors. You can never fully escape it, only dampen it by excessive entertainments and fleshly (or even vain intellectual) pleasures.

>>19103510
>>19103520
It's been a while since I've read Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, but if I recall correctly, the central argument regarding yoga was that it serves as a gateway to "alternative spirituality," a kind of New Age interpretation of Hinduism; first, it's presented as exercise, and then increasingly spiritual elements are introduced - posture leads to deep breathing leads to mindfulness leads to activating one's chakras leads to bhakti or further esoteric practices - at which point the student is indoctrinated without even realizing it. It would as if Christianity introduced prayer as a purely secular practice - a great activity for the mind and body! - and then slowly introduced theological elements until the practitioners were full-blown crusaders. Of course, most yoga students aren't fully indoctrinated; most will be content with the stretching and breathing. But the fact remains that it was introduced deliberately by certain swamis in the West to sway the easily swayed.

>>19103550
>"what if?" fear of hell sometimes.
The cult mentality can be overcome. This >>19103093 is a genuinely good book that tackles this exact issue (religious indoctrination and subsequent fanaticism, the way the control structure works so that you'll always doubt yourself and have a lingering fear of "what if it's true" etc). The cult mentality is self-reinforcing with guilt tripping and fear mongering like >>19103570, I'd say read the book and take a break from this place until the zoomer orthodox meme has been replaced by something else.
You need to simply take a step back and observe these things from afar. You'll realize and really feel for yourself how utterly ridiculous it is in retrospect.

>>19103576
Just do zazen/shikantaza then, problem solved. You can't be indoctrinated if there's no doctrine.

>>19103559

>Adding some form of codified breathing exercises to this to induce some kind of feeling/emotion (even of calmness, etc) would make it into a form of yoga.

Yes I breathe deeply whilst stretching as it helps to relax the muscle. "Calmness" is now a sin? No, no we can't have that, we must all live in constant fear and guilt instead and "carry our crosses"

>>19103559
>>19103562
>orthobros can't even agree on their retarded doctrine
oh no no no

>>19103580
>You can't be indoctrinated if there's no doctrine.
>no doctrine
is this a point of doctrine? or does "zazen/shikantaza" not teach any doctrine at all so how do you follow it?

>>19103584
>is this a point of doctrine? or does "zazen/shikantaza" not teach any doctrine at all so how do you follow it?
You just shut the fuck up and sit down is what you do

>>19103583
Those posts are not actually in disagreement if you look closer. Nothing the other anon says contradicts my post.

>>19103588
>sitting down, closing your eyes and paying attention to your breath? that's demonic
>sitting down, closing your eyes and paying attention to your breath... but christian! now that's heckin' valid
At last I truly see...

>>19103581
>"Calmness" is now a sin?
Indulging in it excessively would be a sin. Physical calmness of the muscles isn't the same as the emotional calmness/stillness people try to chase as a high when doing yoga.

>>19100482
Everyone hates you because you shill your bullshit in other threads that don't care for it and you don't fuck off when told. Schizo posters from other religions do this occasionally too (like guenonfag) but they're not as numerous and cancerous as you.
If you don't want vitriol, start by behaving in a respectable manner.

>>19103583
>>19103595
To be fair, such methods of meditation in Christian tradition are accompanied with prayer.

>>19103595
>that's demonic
Yes, because it attracts evil spirits and you are unguarded by constant prayer to Christ. It's a sure way to experience direct demonic activity and deception.

>>19103596
>equanimity is a sin
kek holy fucking shit you are a living meme

>>19103456
I have had one of these trad orthos tell me with a straight face that people of other religions know they’re talking to demons and continue to worship them because....they’re just evil. and then he got mad when I tried asking more questions about it

>>19103580
There's an underlying Buddhist philosophy, though, and those practices are closely associated with schools of Zen Buddhism which absolutely have, well, maybe "doctrines" isn't the right word, but at least precepts.

But that wasn't the focus at all of Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. The book didn't rail against other religions in general, but focused on the vague globalist religion looming on the horizon and the elements (New Age stuff, corrupted Christian stuff, UFO cult stuff) that the author believed would form its basis.

>>19103604
Such methods are also accompanied by prayer in some other traditions, pure land being the first example to come to mind but far from being the only one.
But other traditions are satanic and demonic and only christianity is heckin' valid so we're back to where we started.
>>19103605
oooo spooky
Do you never get tired of spouting fear mongering bullshit to try and scare others into converting to your meme?

>>19103609
>people of other religions know they’re talking to demons and continue to worship them because....they’re just evil
There literally are such people in pagan countries. They sacrifice to what they themselves believe to be evil gods, but still do it to obtain certain benefits. Also luciferians and other such degenerate groups practice this. There are people who genuinely love the idea of serving evil or of subverting God.

>God is an infinitely intelligent being that transcends all pathetic human thinking and emotion
>All loving and all merciful
>Someone suffering from anxiety or mental agitation as a result of life conditioning that was not their fault tries meditation to calm their mind
>They sit and observe their breath for an hour each day >Person has no interest in Eastern religion, chakras or other such nonsense whatsoever, they just want some respite from their mental anguish
>After a while, they begin to overcome their problems and are far more compassionate, forgiving and non-judgmental as a result - the embodiment of what Jesus encouraged people to be
>God condemns this person to incinerate in agony for eternity, all consuming pain without end, the worst punishment one could possibly conceive of

>>19103610
Zen is particularly elusive. There are precepts, but the practice itself is as divorced from any kind of doctrine or religious dogma as you can possibly get, to the point that trying to ascribe some kind of higher meaning or end goal to it will have the monk get angry at the student. You just sit.
>focused on the vague globalist religion
I'm aware of what Rose wrote about and that his entire criticism of foreign traditions essentially amounts to a strawman that actually describes the new age movement and nothing else.
I'm not surprised he's shilled by orthozooms on here so often though, considering he was basically an archetypal /lit/ poster.

>>19103615
well maybe I should have specified the discussion was about buddhism

>>19103615
Moving goalposts. He talked about "people from other religions" in general and you bring up fringe tribal cults and esoteric satanic groups which don't represent a sizable portion let alone the bulk of non-christian beliefs.
>>19103618
The guy will just answer "if the person wants respite they should pray to christ"
These people can't be reasoned with, they're too deep into the cult. They can't conceive of other beliefs as anything else than evil trying to get them. It's sad

>>19103618
>the embodiment of what Jesus encouraged people to be
Jesus Christ encouraged people to believe in Him as the Son of God. Only He can provide true respite from your mental anguish. Meditation would be seen as a surrogate tool you used instead of turning to Christ for help.
That is why you would be judged, not because you sat around and experienced some emotion. It's that this emotion was more valuable to you than believing in Christ.

>>19100482
Catholic here. I respect Orthodoxes for what they are and I understand why people would convert to Orthodoxy rather than becoming Catholics, especially after Vatican II.

I think the vitriol is mostly coming from the usual suspects. They really spouted anti-Catholic rhetoric during the kulturkampf of the last century. After they've beaten the Catholics they singled out Protestant denominations until they got in line with the new secular world. All while Orthodoxes flew under the radar. Now they realised that while they stomped on the carcass of Catholic and Protestant communities, many converted to Orthodoxy because they were seeking out the sacred and the mysterious.

Also since Russians are Orthodox Christians, and Russia is the boogieman in the West, it's natural that Orthodoxy became suspicious among the Western cultural "elite".

With that being said, I was raised as a Catholic and I'll die as one.

>>19103628
>The guy will just answer "if the person wants respite they should pray to christ"
Correct. Placing your trust in anything else will only lead to disappointment in the end.
>These people can't be reasoned with
Yes. I don't believe fallen human reason can judge God.

>>19103628

Someone could murder 100 Christians and then simply mouth the words "I accept Jesus as my saviour, please forgive me Lord" and they get into heaven whilst a selfless agnostic meditator must writhe in excruciating pain forevermore

>>19103628
Fucking called it >>19103629
>>19103633
Yes, I'm aware your cult tells you to distrust everything including your own reasoning in order to avoid noticing how nonsensical and ridiculous most of its claims are. I understand how the organization functions and how it manages to keep its believers.

>>19103634
>simply mouth the words "I accept Jesus as my saviour, please forgive me Lord"
>simply mouth the words
>they get into heaven
no.
>selfless agnostic meditator must writhe in excruciating pain forevermore
yes, because he did not accept the deliverer from this pain.

>>19103634
It makes complete sense bro. Just let Jesus in so he can save you from what he was going to do to you if you didn't let him in, as this poor indoctrinated chump succinctly puts it >>19103639

>>19103637
>distrust everything including your own reasoning
It doesn't though. My reasoning is perfectly good when it does not contradict God's reasoning. He is the source of all reason and truth.

>>19103643
>my reasoning is good when it goes along with the cult, but it's bad and demonic when it goes against it
Oh man it's like I'm reading a pamphlet straight from a CAN meeting

>>19103646
Yes, because the cult is divinely guided by the Logos. Why would I not believe in deficiency of my reason when I believe in Christ and have experienced Him? I've also experienced demons before, and don't accept materialist cope justifications for these experiences, so why should I not believe this according to you? Give me a good reason.

>>19103669
Oh you can believe if you want, as long as you're not being an obnoxious faggot about it. Just don't be surprised when some people aren't ready to accept this obvious bullshit at face value and disregard your claims as nothing more than superstition.

>>19100765
Kek

>>19103577
>take a break from this place
This
When your main board is an interest board it doesn't matter what is shilled, but when you spend your days on here and are constantly bombarded with shilling of various ideologies, philosophies, religions, doctrines etc it's not an overstatement to say that it takes a toll. All this place does is try to sell you new meme worldviews every six months and make you doubt everything

>>19103669
>because the cult is divinely guided by [cult leader]
Edifying.

>>19100562
>I do not hate Eastern Orthodox
Then why not join it

>>19100482
Because as soon as someone mentions orthodoxy there is a 95% chance of him being an retarded american teenage LARPer

>>19101772
The patriarch of constantinople says the same
>The current great crisis in the field of healthcare affects Orthodox Christians along with all of humankind. Of course, we are being criticized for dealing with and fighting against the pandemic by supporting the development of useful vaccines and other countermeasures. However, the refusal of vaccination and other protective measures is irrational and unjustified by theological or scientific criteria. I have said from the beginning that the pandemic threatens our faithful, but not our faith. It is a fact that a large number of believers who refused protective measures have become victims of this virus. That is why it is unacceptable in the face of so many victims and so much suffering to deny the existence of a pandemic, to regard it as created by someone, or to spread conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, this attitude shows indifference to others. However, anything that contradicts the commandment to love one's neighbor cannot be the will of God. The Church of Constantinople encourages the faithful to consult with their doctors and to vaccinate according to their instructions. Naturally, all of us at the Phanar, including myself, have been vaccinated.

>>19104187
oh no no no orthobros... I thought we were based...

Orthodoxy is a primitive voodoo religion, there's a reason people call it "christian islam".

>>19103669
Okay, detail your experiences of Chrost and demons (which you presume, without evidence, are Christ or demons, when they could be anything else, especially if deceit is involved).

>>19104209
Bro who fucking cares about his hallucinations

Look how much hatred and vitriol all these people in this thread have for the Orthodox Church. And you are telling me that there are no demonic motivations here?

>>19104281
>look at how people dislike us being obnoxious larping faggots, this must be demons
The amount of self-delusion required to make such posts is barely conceivable

>>19104187
Yes, I know. The patriarch of Constantinople has been very liberal about many things. Unlike the Pope in the RC church, however, no one considers patriarchs infallible and we are not required to follow them when they are heretical.
https://youtu.be/V5s5YU3YXKM

>>19104287
Why are you like this? Go back to your anti-Orthodox discord server.

>>19104281
>if I insult your religion, I'm righteous and based
>if you insult my religion, you're a demon and hateful

>>19104290
unlike you I'm not a larper who gets his identity from discord zoomers

ITT people respectfully talk about Orthodoxy while Catholic discord brigaders hatefully accuse them of being obnoxious memers

>>19104291
>orthodog memer telling other people to go back to discord
lmfao this is like a tranny telling me to go back to twitter, have some self-awareness

>>19104297
I have literally never used discord

>>19104281
If anything, these reactions are a great boost to my faith. I see the real hatred demons feel for the West slowly converting after being under their dominion for so long.

>>19104299
/lit/ is moving away from your cult as a whole

>>19104308
>people hating me for being a proselyte boosts my faith
Literally how cults work kek

>>19104209
>without evidence
False assumption.

>>19104318
Can you show evidence? That's what I thought
>>19104308
>slowly converting
Nobody tell him...

The Judeo-Bolsheviks performed literal Satanic rituals to desecrate Russian Orthodox churches. It involved literal orgies and feces. That is the demonic mentality of these people.
https://youtu.be/OmZmLQeYT7Y

>>19104336
>It involved literal orgies and feces.
Your jew god told you to cook bread with human feces though so why are you made about this?

I wonder if Holy Water would them react in anger or fear. The demonic activity is reaching peak levels in these threads.

The beginning of evil is in the false thought. The source of self-delusion and demonic deception is the false thought. By means of falsehood, the devil infected mankind at its very root, our first parents, with eternal death. For our first parents were deceived, i.e., they acknowledged falsehood as the truth, and having accepted falsehood in the guise of truth, they wounded themselves incurably with mortal sin, as is attested by our ancestor Eve, when she said: “The serpent deceived me, and I ate” (Gen. 3:13). Thenceforth, our nature, infected with the poison of evil, has, voluntarily or involuntarily, inclined toward evil which, to our perverted will, distorted reason, and debauched heart, presents itself as good. I say voluntarily because there still remains within us a remnant of the freedom to choose between good and evil. And I say involuntarily because that remnant of freedom does not function as complete freedom, but rather under the unavoidable influence of the wound of sin. Thus is every human born and cannot be otherwise; and for this reason we all, without exception find ourselves in a state of self-delusion and demonic deception. From this view of man’s state with regard to good and evil, the state which is necessarily characteristic of each human being, we arrive at the following definition of spiritual deception which explains it satisfactorily: spiritual deception is man’s assimilation of a falsehood which he accepts as truth. Spiritual deception first acts upon one’s way of thinking; on being accepted and having perverted one’s thought processes, it is forthwith communicated to the heart whose sensibilities it distorts; having mastered the essence of man’s being, it seeps into every one of his activities and poisons the very body which the Creator has indissolubly joined to the soul. The state of spiritual deception is the state of perdition or eternal death.

>>19104318
How do you prove that a vision you have is of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent deity outlined in the Bible and a certain period of church dogma? Or that your experience was of a fallen entity created before earth's making that decided to follow another rebellious angel? How do you prove any of this without begging the question (the church teaches that demons try to pull man from His faith, my experiences tested my faith, therefore it was demons).

Bold of me to assume that anon would even recount his experiences here, instead of leaving us to beat around the burning bush. Don't you know it's a sin to lie, even if it's a pious fraud?

>>19104359
From the time of man’s fall, the devil has had free access to him. The devil is entitled to this access, for, through obedience to him man has voluntarily submitted to his authority and rejected obedience to God. However, God has redeemed man. To the redeemed man He has given the freedom to submit either to God or to the devil; and that this freedom may manifest itself without any compulsion, the devil has been permitted access to man. It is quite natural that the devil makes every effort to keep man in his former subjection to him, or yet to enslave him even more thoroughly. To achieve this, he implements his primordial and customary weapon — falsehood. He strives to deceive and delude us, counting on our state of self-delusion. He stimulates our passions, our sick inclinations. He invests their pernicious demands with an attractive appearance and strives to entice us to indulge them. However, he that is faithful to the Word of God will not permit himself to do so; he will restrain the passions and thus repulse the enemy’s assaults (see Jas. 4:7); struggling against his own self-deception under the guidance of the Gospel, subduing his passions, and thus gradually destroying the influence of the fallen spirits on himself, he will by stages pass from the state of deception to the realm of truth and freedom (see Jn 8:32), the fullness of which will be given through the overshadowing of divine grace. He that is not faithful to Christ’s teaching, who follows his own will and knowledge, will submit to the enemy, and will pass from a state of self-deception into a state of demonic deception, will lose the remnant of his freedom, and in the end he will become totally enslaved to the devil. The state of those who are demonically deluded varies, depending upon the passion by which the particular individual is deluded and enslaved, and corresponding to the degree to which he is enslaved by that passion. And all those who have fallen into demonic delusion, i.e., those who, through the development of their own self-delusion, have entered into fellowship with the devil and have been enslaved by him, are temples and instruments of the demons, victims of eternal death, of life in the dungeons of hell.

There is a very strong and nasty anti-Orthodox sentiment among many Roman Catholics. Very vicious people.
https://youtu.be/jho6MaLwmKE

>>19104339
Are you some sort of atheist/agnostic? Do you not understand that the transcendental argument for God destroys all of your arguments? It is irrefutable. All your little heroes like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris have NO ANSWER to or.

>>19104385
*no amswer to it

>>19100482
Burgers have a perception of protestant and catholic churches that they know as being cucked, debased, corrupted, etc due to widespread scandals around them and knowing a plenty of people who are protestant and catholic and yet they are complete faggots. Those organizations have a tainted, vulgarized image. So instead they turn to orthodox Ccristianity, which they don't see as a cesspit of corruption since they don't know jack shit about it. It helps them feel different among other converts, distancing theme from Auntie Maudine and her baptist choir towards "true tradpill".

Orthodox christianity is essentially veganism of burger religious converts. So of course they are treated like fucking vegans here.

>>19104392
Orthodoxy is strongly against veganism.

>>19104385
>transcendental argument for God destroys all of your arguments?
hahaha holy fucking shit are you baiting or actually serious?
"I don't believe" is enough to destroy literally every single one of your arguments. Cope harder

>>19104397
Praying to Lord Jesus right now so that He can help me see WHO THE FUCK ASKED

>>19104399
"I don't believe" is not an argument.

>>19104339
>Your jew god told you to cook bread with human feces though so why are you made about this?
In my view, nobody but a person cooperating with a demon could write this.

>>19104385
>Some reject the validity of the argument pointing out various flaws, such as a category error involved in the first premise of the argument, namely that just because there is a statement that is universally true it will not make that statement a part of reality in itself.[6] Another issue pointed out is that it is not needed to have a god to have logic or morality.[7] In particular the existence of multiple logic systems with differing axioms such as non-classical logic[8] as well as multiple radically different moral systems[9][10][11][12] constitutes evidence against the idea that logic and morality are actually universals. Furthermore, the existence of theorems like Goedel's completeness theorem and the soundness theorems for classical logic provide justification for some logic systems like classical propositional logic without using any god hypotheses thus contradicting the first premise of the argument.
bro even wikipedia btfos the argument in a single paragraph, this is embarrassing
there are other, more interesting arguments for the existence of god than this. none of them are irrefutable though

>>19104403
That would mean that "I believe" is not an argument either.

>>19104407
>wikipedia

>>19104404
Yes, your god is a volcano demon

>>19104407
>Another issue pointed out is that it is not needed to have a god to have logic or morality.
incorrect.
On what basis do you ground any logical or moral claims with no God? YOU HAVE NONE.

>>19104385
>Do you not understand that the transcendental argument for God destroys all of your arguments?

>>19104403
it is when your entire religion relies on the belief that a rabbi rose from the dead 2000 years ago in order to make sense

>>19104410
No one said that it is an argument. You don't even know what you are talking about.

>>19104424
Why is God the ground for moral and logical claims? What does He provide to these claims?

>>19104399
>"I don't believe"
>>19104429
>NOOO JESUS WAS JUST A HUMAN RABBII HE WAS NOT THE LOGOS INCARNATE

>>19104336
>The Judeo-Bolsheviks performed literal Satanic rituals to desecrate Russian Orthodox churches. It involved literal orgies and feces.
wt I love Bolsheviks now

the age of christkikery is coming to an end on this board, larpers will finally go back to rooshv

>>19104418
Not an argument.
>>19104424
On what basis do you ground these claims on God?
>>19104433
Not an argument.

Without God, without supreme absolute divine Truth, ANY CLAIM THAT YOU MAKE IS ARBITRARY. YOU HAVE NO METAPHYSICAL FOUNDATION FOR ANY LOGICAL, ETHICAL, OR EPISTEMOLOGICAL CLAIMS. YOU CAN'T EVEN PROVE THAT 2+2=4 BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BASIS BY WHICH TO SAY THAT LOGIC IS VALID.

>>19104448
Yes.

>>19104448
But we can't prove that 2+2=4. We just made an a priori agreement that Peano arithmetic works this way.

So let's say that I accept one of the arguments for the existence of god a priori (which I am not obligated to do since metaphysics cannot be proven and any metaphysical claim basically relies on belief).
How do you go from there to believing the bible is true? I can go "sure, god might exist" or even "I believe in god" but this says nothing of the bible, which is a collection of stories I can very safely disregard as pure invention.

>>19104448
Once again, how does God function as a foundation for what you mentioned? What does He provide to our ideas of epistemology or ethics that we could not have without God?

It's meaningless anyways when Christianity's ethics are so subject to a plurality of interpretations, circumstantial softenings and hardening, utter lack of evidence, ease of fabrication, etcetera.

The other problem is- which God? Any God can be configured so as to found logic and ethics, even if a tribal pagan god.

>>19104460
Thomistbros, not like this...

>>19104468
>metaphysics cannot be proven
Your empiricist worldview has no empirical proof that it is valid. You hypocritically and inconsistently rely on metaphysics.

>>19104475
My worldview isn't empiricist, cope more. Nothing can be proven, not even this.

>>19104472
Orthodoxy is not Thomist. They disagree with Thomas Aquinas's argument.>>19104479
>Nothing can be proven, not even this.

>>19104479
prove it

>>19104490
>christian is illiterate
many such cases

>>19104469
Only the Triune God of Christianity transcends the dialectic of unity vs multiplicity.

>>19104490
It's a negative assertion, not a positive assertion. "There is not," not "there is"

>>19104496
proof?
>>19104499
prove that there is not

>>19104498
Did it have to be a triune? I can conceive of a tripartite or bipartite deity that fulfills the same role.

And why does this dialectic need to be actively transcended, or transcended at all?

>>19104490
Prove the bible is true and rabbi yeshua rose from the dead two millennia ago.

>>19104505
>prove that there is not
christian is uneducated about highschool level basic logic
many such cases

>>19104505
The point is that you don't need "proof that there is not," because the position itself consist entirely of attacking the veracity of proof (I'm not sure what kind of proof that anon was referring to, so you'll have to speak to him)

>>19104510
So you claim. Where is the proof?

>>19104511
>The point is that you don't need "proof that there is not
You keep making this claim but you have no grounds by which to state that this is absolutely true.

>>19103350
I don't think it's fair to say you won't find our theology in the church fathers. The Reformers relied heavily on the fathers in their refutations of Rome.

I think the problem we have today is the way people use the fathers now. Simply quote mining them and acting as if they never disagreed or contracted one another or themselves has done a great disservice to the church. Everyone is guilty of using them this way.

>do you believe people believing in heresy can be saved?
I'd have to know your definition of heresy first.

>>19104523
>proof of nonexistence
log off discord, graduate high school, acquaint yourself with basic logic, and then come talk to me

>>19104359
>>19104368
this is the paiful truth. and what is ironic and majestic at the same time is that *spiritual pain* is actually experienced when letting go of the things that hurt us.

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11)

>>19104508
>summoning the epistemological weight schizo
Anyone with half a braincell, even Christians, will readily admit that there is no actual evidence for the core tenets of their faith. That's why it's a faith.

I strongly encourage all you atheists/agnostics/whatever you are to WATCH THIS AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES ON THE FUTILITY OF YOUR ARGUMENTS.
https://youtu.be/AajJBhdRpDA
https://youtu.be/AajJBhdRpDA
https://youtu.be/AajJBhdRpDA

Why do I need a foundation- I can simply use logic; the purpose is to show that you can't prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, even this statement. Once again, what does God bring to the table with regard to logic? How does He found it?

>>19104537
>bro just watch a three-hour video about theology I swear it'll convert you. Making an argument? no just watch the video it'll refute atheism you'll see haha
Christians are getting really desperate holy shit.

>>19104540
>the purpose is to show that you can't prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, even this statement.
DO YOU NOT SEE THAT YOU JUST DEFEATED YOUR OWN ARGUMENT?
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW INCONSISTENT AND FUTILE YOUR CLAIMS ARE?

>>19104542
You don't care about truth. You don't really want to learn. You just want to be snide and snarky on an Internet forum.

>>19104543
>DO YOU NOT SEE THAT YOU JUST DEFEATED YOUR OWN ARGUMENT?
Do you not understand why it does not matter?

>>19104498
be wary, you are struggling to cast pearls against swines. man is a free being and if he can freely choose his demise. that is why Origen was rightfully casted away -- we need to adjust language and metaphors to the level that people can grasp sufficienty that the decision can arise from their own volition. otherwise we are doing more harm than good; hence "casting pearls against swine"

>>19104548
Like I said, you don't care about truth.

>>19104546
>You don't care about truth.
But I do, very much, which is why I'm not a Christian lmfao.
You on the other hand have based your entire life on a lie.

>>19104555
>I do care about truth!
>dude bro I don't care if my claims are inconsistent and self-defeating lmao

>>19104552
>if you think my arguments are bullshit it just means they're 2deep4u
KEK
This is getting increasingly pathetic and your desperation is showing

>>19104559
>reading your posts? no, I'm just going to repeatedly state my position and talk over you instead
A common Christian method unfortunately.

>>19104562
Just give up. You lost. You have already conceded that you don't have any claims to truth. Your whole worldview is a black hole.

>using "truth" and "christianity" in the same sentence
ishygddt

>>19104567
>gets blown the fuck out and refuses to answer questions while repeatedly stating his own position over and over again instead to avoid making a point
>"j-just give up, y-you lost"
Jesus christ you're absolutely fucking pathetic. Please acquire some self awareness.

>>19104560
that was my first post in this thread, anon. be well and don't forget your true hobbies, it's easy to go dry in these times

>>19104593
My bad, but my point still stands and your post comes off as self-righteous and out of touch.
Yep these threads are amusing but most of the posters here would do well to get some fresh air. Appreciate the thought, take it easy

>>19104543
I didn't defeat my own universal claim, I just admitted that it could be wrong, like any claim to truth. Just as there is no "proof for anything (nothing can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt), the argument itself still retains the possibility of being wrong, and there existing something provable.

What happened to "the meek (restrained )shall inherit the earth?" Read over the posts I made and stop acting desperately.

>>19104602
This is genuinely just cope now. You know that you're wrong.

>>19104609
>gets btfo
>proceeds to enter damage control mode and deflect
I'm not the guy you're replying to but you're really bad at this.