/lit/ - Literature

good thing i'm a christian

Read, atheists - the level that's gotten the movement this far isn't going to get it where it needs to be next.

Yes, the neo-atheism movement is retarded. This is not new stuff here.

> Maybe the problem is that a lot of people who participate in the debate online and then attend the events are severely lacking in real life social skills?
> It wouldn’t come as a surprise to me that the majority of people who attend atheist conferences would fall into this category. I also wouldn’t be surprised with the number of people posting such disgusting posts online to you. No one should have to deal with that. I have to be honest though, I’ve received messages with comparable hate, racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism and in just as explicit detail online.

AHA, that awkward moment when internet atheists hit daylight and their new friends don't like the smell of Nachos either!

More like that awkward moment when you find out what weak men are attracted to a morality based on survival of the fittest.

lol at filename

What's interesting here is that in the US atheism is as much a position of the libertarian right as it is the social democrat left, which is much less the case in England, so it doesn't surprise me she's encountered some guys who think women want what Ayn Rand wanted. The Atheism Inc. franchise of the four horsemen (Iol) attracts a lot of guys who want to reify existing power relations by obliterating Christian notions of mercy and charity.

There must be a better phrase than Atheism Inc. Big Doubt?

big doubt you'll get out of the elevator without three fingers in your cunt

>>1909806
>reify existing power relations

Kill yourself.

It begins.

>>1909818

Sorry for giving the game away man, but that's why you want to kick Christianity out the picture, not the kind of socialist utopia the English atheists largely dream about.

Dawkins was always going to pay for his personality problem.

There are atheist events? What the hell?

Why do people even care?

>> my fellow skeptics and atheists

WTF? If you are a skeptic you cannot be an atheist, because that means you believe there is no God. If you were a real skeptic you would, like Protagoras, say that as to the existence or nature of the gods you cannot know about that.

>>1909850

Dictionary definitions, and what people use words to mean, are two entirely different things. Many people take 'atheist' to mean 'one who thinks Dawkins is nicer than he looks'. I'd say this required a leap of faith.

>>1909865

She also says "how their goals so clearly overlapped those of the humanists and skeptics and secularists", which shows quite clearly that she has no idea of what Humanism means, either.

>>1909845
>There are atheist events? What the hell? Why do people even care?

Because everyone wants to be a minority.

>>1909870

Of course she does. What you're doing here is trying to invalidate her standing as an atheist because she doesn't want to be raped. That's very sad. 'No true atheist woman would dodge my malty paws', you're saying.

>>1909876

I think I see what you did there, and I approve of it. Keep up the good work.

>>1909879

Thank you!

>>1909899
Just to make sure: I was referring to the fact that Humanism is NOT an atheist endeavor, neither historically nor if you look at Feuerbach, conceptually. You then "trolled" me, as it were. Correct?

Her whole shtick on YouTube is mostly bad Bible jokes, so of course she isn't that bright. But she's also correct.

Atheists are all ugly, sweaty & piggish in real life, yes we know. However, the claim that women are not logical is by no means a rash nor untrue statement.

If I had a dollar for every time an otherwise "rational" & intelligent woman told me to excuse some heinous act of idiocy of hers for no better reason than her self-admitted (& "natural womanly") unreasonableness, I'd have no shortage of dollars!

why was i not told about either organized atheist events, or sexual harassment being accepted and widespread during them?

too think i used to pay for the privilege of guilt ridden sex.

need to find one around me.

>>1909915
Any kind of person would use an excuse for their faults if given the chance.

Look at this travesty of a presentation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkXcbySuSvI

>>1909971
Oh Lord, I cannot believe these people are not only having these conventions, but their whole community revolves around the idea that what is going on there is superior to organized religion...

I have yet to meet somebody who was an in your face atheist who wasn't a totally creepy prick.

>>1909971

UGH. Why would anyone need to attend an atheism seminar or conference?

If you don't want to follow a religion stop fucking dwelling on it.

>>1910040

It's similar to racial seperatists. When you want credit for something which was no achievement, you've probably failed yourself a lot. Being born white is not an achievement. Disbelieving in something the whole point of which is to be easy to disbelief is not an achievement.

>>1909915

There's no place for the word 'but' in a condemnation of rape culture.

>>1909971
I'm an atheist. I managed to last a minute.
Also sage for non lit.

>>1909806
That's very interesting was to look at it, atheists wanting to destroy the reverence for things like mercy and love. It's like how the Chinese Communists use the love of "reason" and "science" to justify the oppression of the "irrational" Tibetan Buddhists. After all, if they aren't going to behave and act rationally, then why should they be treated like humans after all?

>atheist event
What the fuck am I reading?

>>1910146

Exactly!

>who want to reify existing power relations by obliterating Christian notions of mercy and charity.

>implying ideas of mercy and charity aren't built into power relations
>implying Christianity is an escape or exception from power relations rather than a part of them

lol

Atheism is as much a non-falsifiable belief as theism is. I love explaining this to in-your-face atheists.

>>1910166

When you obliterate Christianity, you're going to have an elite with no compunction or charity. If you think the way to bring forward the Revolution is by removing from a cutthroat capitalist society the one element that curbs the selfishness of the elites, you're insane.

>>1910172
So, for you, charity, mercy and love is impossible without Christianity. Talk about self-centered and blind to any other cultures.

>>1910172
>you're going to have an elite with no compunction or charity

Charity is build into capitalism. Charity allows us to wreck the environment and leave in self-indulgence while others in poverty and feel good about it -- charity let's us off of our idleness.
It allows rich men to be idolized as selfless, caring individuals (rich philanthropists).
It has barely anything to do with Christianity.

4chan's /lit/ board

The only place on the Internet that criticises annoying atheists logically and accurately.

Who would have thunk it.

>>1910175

Noone is going to care about that if you lose Christianity. Do you really not understand this? America is kept from being a miserable oligarchy only by notions of mercy and charity which are INTRINSICALLY Christian. If you lose the appeal to the sovereignty of each individual soul, you lose any argument against perfect selfishness.

>>1910181
we're biologically hard-wired to care about harm/care structures and fairness/reciprocity

Christianity is an expression of that, not a cause

>>1910177

The American atheism which seeks to abolish Christian values is at its root Objectivist-influenced, pro-selfish, survival-of-the-fittest libertarian. To them, rich people are just better than others. There will be no counter-argument, there will be no discourse, there will be no hiding place. If you eliminate the notion that all men are created equal, you're not going to replace it with socialism in American - you're going to replace it with social Darwinism.

>>1910183

Any study you can find, you can find another to contradict.

>>1910184
>The American atheism which seeks to abolish Christian values is at its root Objectivist-influenced, pro-selfish, survival-of-the-fittest libertarian.
It sounds terrible.

>>1910181
>America is kept from being a miserable oligarchy only by notions of mercy and charity
Love and charity don't disappear with Christianity.
>which are INTRINSICALLY Christian
No they aren't.
>If you lose the appeal to the sovereignty of each individual soul, you lose any argument against perfect selfishness.
Humanism has superseded Christianity for many in providing a reason to not be a prick.
You think only Christian's have notions of human decency and everyone else is a heartless prick? You're a fucking blind moron if you do.

>>1910179

Indeed.

>>1910187

Are you genuinely illiterate in the discourse of your own society?

>>1910187

There are no post-Christian democracies.

>>1910184
>The American atheism which seeks to abolish Christian values is at its root Objectivist-influenced, pro-selfish, survival-of-the-fittest libertarian.
Or maybe its roots lie in the writings of people like Thomas Jefferson and Mark Twain, lol.
>To them, rich people are just better than others.
I thought these atheists of your imagination tended to be more petulant, fuck-the-establishment-maaaan, youths.
>If you eliminate the notion that all men are created equal,
Not the same as eliminating Christianity. And denying this notion doesn't necessarily lead to social Darwinism.

>>1910192

Apart, I should note, from socialist ones. But you are not going to get socialism in the US.

>>1910190
I'm not American. You don't know what my "own society" is.

>>1910193

Will you please get real? The ascendency of the nu-Atheism is entirely a result of the efforts of right-wing libertarians.

>>1910192
Democracy was seen as a secular movement in its origin, in France and the US, not as a Christian one.

>>1910195

Then butt the fuck out.

>>1910199

I'm talking about here and now.

>>1910197
>The ascendency of the nu-Atheism is entirely a result of the efforts of right-wing libertarians.
No, you just think this. There are plenty of atheists who didn't know what libertarianism was when they recognized themself as atheist. There are atheists who despise libertarianism completely.

>>1910203

It doesn't matter what some neckbeards with no money think. Once there's no mysticism about the human soul, there will be no reason for the rich not to grind the poor into the dirt. This is why atheism is being promoted, this is the interest that will benefit.

>>1910200
>you're not 'murrican, you have no right to speak with us
How Christian of you.
>>1910202
You said that there have been no post-Christian democracies.
This is absurd, because there have been no Christian democracies in the first place, from the inception of democracy to now. There has been a movement in the US by one Party to try and classify their country as being such a thing, but everyone else in the US has resisted it and everyone else in the world has no such delusion.
The separation of Church and state -- which basically says, "we aren't a theocracy" -- has persisted in America.

Man after reading through this thread....

I don't know SHIT about atheism.

I do know that feminists are usually pieces of shit though. I understand in other parts of the world women really have it hard. But, in America, don't you fucking tell me women have it tough.

>>1910209

You're basically ignorant of the history you're sounding off about.

You don't know what you're talking about at all. You assume out of ignorance. THERE HAS BEEN NO DEMOCRACY THAT SAW THE OBLITERATION OF CHRISTIANITY. I did not refer to 'Christian democracies', the term 'post-Christian democracy' means just what it says - a democracy that exists after Christianity has left a society.

I'm not saying that Christians are perfect, but they really wrote the book on a lot of shit that would not otherwise be included in our culture. Greek and Roman cultures were preeminently rational and reasonable, yet there was a lot wrong with them. Their cultural ethos stressed competition, personal glory and the state, whether in the form of the polis or the empire. You more or less weren't supposed to care about people who weren't like you. Now, go read the Gospels. There is nothing like it in the Greco-Roman tradition. The statement, "Give unto Caesar what is due to Caesar, but give unto God what is due unto God" is the antithesis of the Greco-Roman mindset, where nothing was above Caesar. A community of believers who hold ideals that go higher than those of the state: this concept would have been alien to our culture had it not been for Christianity.

>>1910208
>It doesn't matter what some neckbeards with no money think.
Your charitable, merciful Christian soul is shining through.
>Once there's no mysticism about the human soul
Why do you believe that Christianity is the only source of this? There's fucking trite love songs abound everywhere that contain mysticism about the human soul and most often Christianity is not even implied.
>This is why atheism is being promoted, this is the interest that will benefit.
There's a lot of discourse on Atheism that is entirely removed from economics. Libertarianism might be a strong phenomenon in America but it isn't so anywhere else and the idea that all atheism in America is solely libertarian is false.

In America, atheism is a right-wing position. That is all.

>>1910214
>I did not refer to 'Christian democracies', the term 'post-Christian democracy' means just what it says - a democracy that exists after Christianity has left a society.

Well you might have mentioned that before, you mouth dribbling neanderthal.
To characterise democracy as "Christian democracy" because Christianity exists within it is stupid. Islam exists in plenty of democracies too, so why don't you refer to "Post-muslim democracy"?

>>1910217

The point is, in a post-Christian society it WON'T MATTER WHAT SOME NECKBEARDS WITH NO MONEY THINK. I'm trying to point out to you why the notion of obliterating Christianity is, even if it were possible, a foolish ambition. It would end in your slavery.


>>1910215

This.

>>1910209
>There has been a movement in the US by one Party to try and classify their country as being such a thing, but everyone else in the US has resisted it
Wait, why are the Republicans "one party" while the Democrats get to be "everyone else in the US"?

>>1910221

You're now blustering because your ignorance is leading you astray. No-one's used the formulation 'Christian democracy' apart from you. Stop wasting your life.

>>1910218
Despite the fact that the right-wing has used religion again and again in its campaign efforts and propaganda.
Despite the fact that the liberal and socialist left tend to be more atheist.

>>1910224

Because he's presumably a britfag with no fucking idea what he's talking about.

>>1910227
>No-one's used the formulation 'Christian democracy' apart from you.
What the fuck. I only used it to refer to how stupid it was when somebody else used "Post-christian democracy"
Do you not realise that post-christian democracy IMPLIES "chrstian democracy". Lol, this is simple shit.

>>1910228

This is only true in England. Which was my initial point, 500 years ago - these are different cultures for whom atheism means entirely different things, and for them to form an alliance of convenience is unwise, and will have consequences later.

>>1910224
>Wait, why are the Republicans "one party" while the Democrats get to be "everyone else in the US"?
I didn't say the Democrats were everyone else in the US. It's only the Republicans that have used such tactics, and everyone else, Democrat or not, hasn't.
You people's basic logic and reading comprehension is god awful.

>>1910234
>Despite the fact that the right-wing has used religion again and again in its campaign efforts and propaganda.
>Despite the fact that the liberal and socialist left tend to be more atheist.

>This is only true in England.

Are you kidding me?

>>1910231

Just say 'I'm sorry I missed your point because I wasn't paying attention', that's all you need to do.

>>1910240

The right of the Republicans is not Christian - Christianity is used as a smokescreen by them, and this always provides the liberals with a standard by which to find them wanting. In an atheist society, no such (ostensible) shared standard would apply.

>>1910215
And since that day, when the Christian's cured the Graeco-Roman desire for conquest and hatred based on race and creed, everybody lived in perfect harmony.

Back on-topic: why does it matter if some atheist snatches get raped? They minister to each other.

>>1910243
>The right of the Republicans
You refer to a fringe element in American society.

>>1910245

Fuck off, troll.

The Nu-Atheist will not educate himself in history. This is why they will fail.

>>1910215

And these all gave rise to an otherworldly culture of weaklings, pity-partiers & hopeful, hopeless saps who'd rather invest in imaginary treasures than esteem properly their lives, their flesh & their selves.

Which is not to say that the Hellenistic culture was the ideal; it was far from it. Yet the Christian culture took the worst parts of the Greeks & Romans (Platonism) and the worst parts of normative Judaism (monopolistic, impish god) and we are none the wiser for it.

Certainly some aspects of Pauline Christianity were beneficial in producing our obsession with the inalienability of the individual will, etc. That I will grant them.

>>1910247

I refer to the people who have funded the Nu-Atheist Crusade. These are the people who want charity and mercy to be relegated to the status of superstition.

>>1910252

You grant nothing, shitspeck. You earn the remedy Hitler gave eight million.

>>1910252

The competition & personal glory of the Greeks & Romans were the most regretful victims of Christianity's castrating effect.

No, seriously. Atheists are weak people who can't take or give a beating, of course they're going to be creepers. Why should I care? Let them suffer each other's company.

>>1910253
>I refer to the people who have funded the Nu-Atheist Crusade.
Who?
>These are the people who want charity and mercy to be relegated to the status of superstition.
Where do you get this from?
Let me see once reliable source which shows this to be the case.

>>1910255

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND NOW, YOU VAIN IDIOT? This is what returns when Christianity goes - the totalitarianism of entrenched wealth and power.

I've nothing more to say. If you don't get it, I hope you never get a more direct lesson.

>>1910254

Are you somehow implying that me not liking Platonism & normative Judaism is somehow equitable with Nazism?

neat

>>1910259
>the totalitarianism of entrenched wealth and power.

Thank God Christianity is around to save us from that, lol.

>>1910260

No, I'm saying you deserve to be gassed to death.

>>1910259

I just appeared in this thread...

In any case, I understand perfectly what leaves when Christianity leaves: the idea of submissiveness, meekness & weakness as virtues.

Note: Competition & personal glory are not bad things.

>>1909971
Fell asleep from boredom a minute into it.

>>1910263

It was the only thing that did. Learn your history, britfag. You owe Christian reformers all your major freedoms.

I'm done with this thread and your ignorance. Enjoy talking to the Nazi and the rape advocate.

This dyke should realize that man like any other animal is their prime instinct is to pass on their DNA and that her destiny is to be the receptacle for their sperm.

>>1910265

There. See?

Whatever, enjoy.

>>1910244
I never said it did. All I'm saying is that Christianity empowered people with the notion that a community of believers could legitimately hold ideals that were not endorsed or condoned by the state. For instance, in Latin America, people developed and embraced Liberation Theology to resist US imperialism, and in Poland, Solidarity evoked Poland's history of Catholicism to resist the Soviet-backed Communist ideology, Christianity began as an ideology of the little guy; it is the story of conscience standing firm (and winning!) against violence and worldly power, and no matter how badly the Republican party tries to distort this tradition, it's unmistakable to anyone who takes five minutes to leaf through the Gospels.

>>1910269

^ This is what Richard Dawkins fans actually believe.

>You owe Christian reformers
Name some. Let's see how well you've learned your history.
>britfag.
There's more than Britain and the US in the world.
>Enjoy talking to the Nazi and the rape advocate.
How can you talk about Christian decency, mercy, charity and all that shit and then turn around and say something as spiteful as this?

>>1910273

> mfw those posters are literally a Nazi and a rape advocate

>>1910265
Competition and glory aren't bad, but they can quickly get out of control. I mean, just look at how Goldman Sachs completely fucked over the world economy in the name of competition.

I'm not advocating rape, I'm enjoying the fact that every recessive gene in the book gathers for "atheist conventions" and they're surprised when some of them want to rape women.

>>1910276
>mfw the Christians in this thread are an embarrassment to Christianity, and when I would make a far better Christian than them.

>>1910273

Godwin's law in action, my dear anon. He is merely mad, & will bless the fruits of anonymity should he see his posts to-morrow.

As for the subject at hand—much of the Enlightened conceptions of individualism & freedom owe themselves, strangely enough, to the Protestant dissenters. I won't go into too much detail but I will say that Pauline Christianity's individualism is its only redeeming quality. Much else (the Platonism, the self-loathing, the cowardice) is rubbish.

Gospel Christianity (so hard to distinguish from its later distortions & revisions by the aforementioned Paul) is much cooler, though it takes an active imagination to appreciate it. I like Oscar Wilde's and William Blake's radical revisionist interpretations.

>>1910283

Oh look, hipster Christianity, lol.

Atheism is a subset of Protestantism. It's true, I'm afraid. Protest all you want, that's the genus.

>>1910192
What do you mean by "post-christian"? How secularized must a society be before you would accept it as such? Most of the Nordic countries should qualify, being highly secularized and democracies.

>>1910282

> mfw when you earn the remedy Hitler gave eight million

>>1910265
Yes and no. Yes, the church has often taken the side of the powerful against the weak, though when the church and state become too close, the legitimacy of the church tends to suffer. But Christianity is at its best when it takes an oppositional stance to power. And it's not just the early Christians getting eaten by lions. It's also the Puritans who stood up to the English monarchs, or the Latin Americans who faced down a global superpower (i.e. the United States) armed only with their belief that God was on their side (this is, of course, the story of Liberation Theology). History and ideologies are much more complex than you make them out to be. I suggest you stay away from cleches.

Odd that people are arguing as if there's going to be an end of Christianity.

Pat Robertson is richer than Richard Dawkins. Therefore Christianity is correct and atheism is incorrect. By atheism's own standard. Money is power. That's "reality".

/thread

>>1910303
The Free Market (TM) has spoken.

>>1910312

Yeah yeah, enjoy your RATM mp3s, faggot.

Atheists have repeatedly shown that the only thing they respect is superior force, so why should young atheist women be surprised when they turn out not to be gentlemen?

>>1910315
Oh Twilight, leave him alone.

Guys with only one topic of conversation in 'creepy' shock, film at 11.

This wasn't intended as another atheist vs. Christian thread. We atheists have a cultural problem we need to address. Obviously, some Dawkins-kiddies are finding this difficult to process. I have no words, really.

The Christians on /lit/ are, generally, above-average in smarts. The atheists on /lit/ must be among the dumbest atheists on the internet.

>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303
>>1910303

/thread

>>1910340
That's a little unfair, but I too have noticed that, as a whole, the calibre of neo-Atheist thought is generally sub-par. If anything, neo-Atheism has breathed new life into Christianity by forcing it to clarify its core beliefs and values.

>>1910348

I wouldn't say so, I'd say it's more that it's reminded them that if you just assume everyone knows where you stand, people will step in and make capital out of deliberately misrepresenting you.

>>1910340
Well this thread must be an odd exception.

>>1910352

No. You always danced to the tune we called.

I've yet to encounter these so-called intelligent Christians of /lit/.

But this newly invigorated Christianity of which you speak is but a cornered Christianity that has revealed the utter tasteless boorishness behind it all; or else it has resigned into some strange & cowardly version that is embarrassed of itself.

Atheists remain ugly.

>>1910361

> of which you speak

Yeah, again, that kind of thing just makes you seem tragic.

We're not cornered, we remain in possession of the mind, the will, the eye and the hand.

>>1910350
True, but by the same measure, (the true) Christians lose points for not raising hell when the Republicans "stepped in and make capital out of deliberately misrepresenting you." I mean really, when you got religious fundamentalists white knighting for the Republicans and saying things like Jesus would have supported lower taxes and gun rights and (my favorite) capital punishment, you know you have a problem.

>>1910358
What tune was that? Pretending to be morons to purposefully incense me?
Yeah I danced to that.

>>1910361
>Atheists remain ugly.
This new Atheism is pretty droll but atheism in general is not.

It's a pity this item wasn't about atheist men being raped - most of them need it.

>>1910368

They do raise hell, you just don't pay attention because you want to imagine all Christians are like Dubya.

>>1910369

It won't work. Recall the mind, the will, the eye, the hand.

>>1910364

O behold the tragedy of grammar!

And no, my dear friend, you are certainly cornered.

Note: While theism carries certain respectable weight, religion (in particular, the cult called Christianity) certainly does not. S.V.P., study thy history (in particular, the development of your scriptures, your practice & your theology).

Two points every atheist needs to understand:

1: All you have to do to be a Christian is believe in the divinity of Christ and thank him for saving you. No other beliefs are prescribed or proscribed.

2: No atheist's valuation of the moral standing of a Christian will ultimately matter to the Christian. Nothing that needs to be done can be countermanded by an atheist's notion of niceness.