/lit/ - Literature

>not having your physical manuscripts stored in a closet somewhere so that when you die researchers will find them and donate them to a university or library so you have your own literary archive
literally NGMI

FUCK ANIME

>>19090767
What's that schizo janitor who wrote like the longest book of all time? I don't think that has even been published yet, but he did what you describe.

I have four books to suggest to a writer, and I think they should be in the OP.

From Where We Dream - Robert Olen Butler
Reading Like a Writer - Francine Prose
The Writing Life - Anne Dillard
The Oxford-Duden Pictorial English Dictionary

My notes on From Where We Dream are in the previous thread, as well as a video of Butler livestreaming him writing a short story to show his process.

>>19090779
Henry Darger, yes
pic rel are his manuscripts and typescripts

bird by bird SUCKS
literally just a mediocre author's diary desu

Asking again from last thread:
How do you personally make promises to the reader in the opening lines and chapter?
For now I nest the dominant themes and mood of the story as soon as I can. Still, I am worried about readers thinking my story is mostly a dystopian setting, when in reality the dystopia is ended in the first chapter and it becomes a utopia in which the protag cannot learn to trust. The whole nature of the dystopian act 1 molds the motivation of characters for the rest of the story and I believe it to be so crucial that merely telling the reader about it wouldn't work. How do I help readers understand that it's not a monster movie only?

I have done my daily 2k, one more day and I'll have another 5ker or 6ker ready.

>>19090694
>Too large a cast of characters. Though there are only two protagonists ... there's a huge cast surrounding them which don't really have a great importance in this first book. I am planning on writing a series (maybe even a long one), ... the rest of the cast sort of gains or loses relevance depending on which arc or book we're talking about ... However, my fear is that the reader might get lost between the many characters, or even forget them. A way I thought to try and remedy is to have a sort of diagetic list of these characters as an addendum to the first chapter (since such a list would actually exist in-world), but then again, that might look a bit on the nose
I did this and readers said it helped them keep track of characters a lot. I think done correctly, as an addition to other appendix lists like maps or family trees, it can seem less like "I know you forgot so here's some help" and more like "here are how all the characters are intertwined". But put it in the appendix, or in the beginning of the book.
>Sometimes I may have a bit too much exposition in certain scenes. This is because I'm having a bit of trouble to discern how much information about the world or the events the reader actually needs to understand what is happening.
Trust the reader to fill in the blanks, unless the blanks are vitally important to the story. I usually glance over things like exiled families, natural disasters, sometimes dates and distances. No one wants to read a textbook, so if you think it reads like it, repackage your text differently- through natural conversation, for example.
>Worldbuilding in general. Since I put a lot of thought into it, it's not something I can explain in few words, and not all of it is necessary. Again, I was thinking of pulling a Herbert and adding a few addendums to flesh out aspects of the world brought on in the actual story.
That works. So does interludes and post scripts not vital to the main story, or additional shorter "lore books" to enrich the world.
>Genre ... I'm close to ... YA urban fantasy ... the spin I give it would probably not sit well in that genre. If someone asked me "who this book is for" i wouldn't know what to tell them, really. Probably still a "young adult" demographic, but I honestly see little to no similarity between my story and most YA stuff other than that
Don't worry about genre for now. Asking the question "who is my audience" is more important than "what label does this book have", even if they sound like the same question. If it's a book written for young adults and it's in an urban fantasy setting, just call it urban fantasy. YA reminds me of schlocky novels cranked out by people who template their books out of some "How to Write a Novel in a Month" self help book.

>>19090983
>a sort of diagetic list of these characters as an addendum to the first chapter
i was about to call this cheesy but i remembered that they did this in a hundred years of solitude.

>>19090779
>>19090814
This guy is pretty inspiring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjCS_u3Sgpg

>>19090762
i love GITS so much (the manga and 1995 movie) thanks for the image OP

>>19085927
i'm going to do this chronologically and hopefully it makes sense.
the first paragraph alone reeks of pretentious new writer scent. couldn't say it better than the other guy. it's very clear that you're more worried about looking sophisticated than actually providing your readers with an experience.
paper hands, wandering eyes, expressionless face, all these convey the exact opposite effect from confidence, which is what you were trying to say with "tonight would be one of his best".
the repetitions don't work. they have no depth, nothing to back them up.
i had no idea what happened in the second and third paragraphs. a thing? an animal, maybe? oh it's a she. why would he call a toddler a thing? was this musician guy a child hater? oh wait it's a doll. what? why would you confuse your readers deliberately like this? i had to read this part twice. ambiguity done right can be rewarding, but being vague just for shits and giggles is really annoying. this made me want to stop reading.
there is also no harm in naming your characters, especially your main character, when you have many of them. not only it gets confusing among the "he"s and "she"s, it also shows your pretentiousness.
>the boy played music
>the woman held the object
>the fat man watched the boy
it gets tired very quickly. it's not mysterious or cool or oh so profound. it's weak, and it's as annoying as capitalizing every other noun in a vain attempt to evoke some superficial profundity. what's wrong with calling it a doll or whatever it's supposed to be? an automaton, apparently. you know i thought you made a typo and the fat man was supposed to be a used car dealer. don't try to be smart and send the reader in circles trying to figure out even your promise. be clear. in this story, humanlike machines called automatons are sold and bought like stock. at least i know what the story is about, and knowing that might actually entice me to read further.
the transition was jarring. i blinked and suddenly we're in his room where his mom just stepped into.
i stopped reading after this and my first impression stands: this is littered with first-timer mistakes. trying to sound deep, abusing ambiguity, confusing scenes with jarring flow. new writers often get caught in writing a scene as they imagine it, but it comes out jumbled and all over the place, and that's what the reader sees: the words you wrote, not the scene inside your head.
also, stop sharing google docs links. everyone can see who's online and you're unwittingly doxxing anons trying to help. use pastebin.

>>19090762
serious question, how many of you are willing to read a meandering soliloquy? I want to write a story, but I keep getting distracted by my dreams, which are extremely cool in theory, but do not translate well at all.

>>19091104
I'm so mad that I didn't download the 95 movie from youtube when I had the chance. did you know that the amazon ver. cgi'd the intro scene? THE MOST ICONIC SCENE and the FUCKED IT UP. I nearly had a stroke. Yeah, the 95 movie is amazing. never really read the manga, but I did see the tv show. I don't remember much, except the sex-bot episode, which was heart-wrenching.

>>19091124
There would have to be a hook of some kind to get me invested in such a thing. I'll post you an example of how not to do it.
1/3

>>19091137
is it not this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iHil4Y4r3Wk

Hey /wg/, where'd you get your ideas from?

>>19091124
>>19091154
2/3

>>19091124
>serious question, how many of you are willing to read a meandering soliloquy?
Not willing at all better keep the dreams as a premise to start from.

>>19091124
>>19091161
3/3

>>19091159
it's not available in my country, but I'll fuck around and get it eventually. Thank you very much, anon

>>19091154
>>19091161
>>19091167
thanks a bunch, anon. would you be willing to point out the parts that are particularly egregious?

>2.5 hours
>another 700 words
>short story finally reached its end
but far from done. it's absolute shite. ideas jumped here and there. at least i'm glad i can tell what's shit. can't wait to start the rewriting tomorrow. surely it won't be as painful as writing from scratch.

>>19091104
just torrent it

>>19091160
>things i see during the day that sticks with me
>a pretty scene that persists in my head
>my own fears and insecurities
all these are things that don't go away, and cling to you.

>>19091160
Books, and imagination I have a bedside notebook for dreams

>>19091173
It just drones on and on about nothing, everything before he starts spying on his wife should be cut because it offers nothing of value to the rest.

>>19091188
okay, I think I understand. Thanks

>>19091111
>stop sharing google docs links. everyone can see who's online and you're unwittingly doxxing anons trying to help. use pastebin.

That should be a rule for sharing. Direct post or pastebin for larger works.

>>19091165
the issue is that my dreams have some really amazing poignant scenes that'd I'd love to put into a story, but they're completely incoherent once you try to put them into a narrative; especially the visuals- like a reflection of the earth itself, projected into the sky, or a slice of reality bent into an intricate fractal- but there's no actual foundation to build on.

>>19091124
Have you read anything like that? I can think of some work like that. I feel like you should have read things like that to understand potential boundaries and tricks of narrative blending.

>>19091222
i know that feel. i've largely given up on that and accepted that stories are not the medium for those. maybe learn video?

>>19091160
Life

Not my life, I'm far too fucking boring. But my ideas for fantasy come from history and my ideas for science fiction come from the news and science.

I honestly don't understand how anyone who considers themselves to be a writer could be short of ideas. I will go to my grave with more ideas in my head than I ever had time to pen down even if I started releasing 4 books a year.

>>19091160
>living in the US and clown world
>reading the Bible too much
>reading eugenicist and transhumanist non-fiction way too much
>history and philosophy books
>weird fiction and scifi

>>19091254
This desu. My ideas notepad and the amount of books I have in my "back burner" folder have enough content to supply a team of idealess writers with books for all their lifetimes

>>19091294
I started a generic Inspiration file in my google doc and I just slam things down so I don't forget them.

If I ever have to go digging for ideas I'm gunna take some mushrooms and read through that

>>19090866
Have the first chapter act as a sort of flashback. Have a brief talky type intro, describe the dystopia, then at the end of the chapter return to the present.

>>19091137
That's the 2.0 version. If you get the blu ray for like five bucks it has the original cut as a bonus feature. Don't watch anime on Amazon.

>>19091124
i enjoy dream depictions a lot, i like to write mine and would like to read someone else's. but from what i understand that's not common

>>19091111
makes sense. getting back on writing after having not for months was rough
your time is really appreciated, thanks for using it to help me out
that was basically my first attempt at being hazy about things, so I did probably go overboard there. a good thing to know

Can a protagonist become relatable from just the amount of hardship they encounter? We're talking a story of about 20k words at most here.

>>19091751
The suffering would have to be pretty bad. Character likeability involves their competence, sympathy and proactivity. If a character is incompetent they at least need to be someone proactive or be nice to animals or endure suffering.

>>19091160
Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gundam, history, and the various anime I've consumed over the last decade.

>>19091751
Side question. How well would readers receive a protagonist who becomes the villain of his own story?

>>19091160
Three or four battle harem anime I watched back in high school

>>19092126
I've probably seen more anime than you and you frustrate me to no end when you never include one non-LN book. If you had the skills to draw or the resources to produce an anime, you'd abandon writing in an instant.

>>19092172
Like Walter White? Yes that can work. You can start with a sympathetic character and then make your audience hope they get their comeuppance later as they turn bad.

>>19090762
What made James Joyce good?

>>19092462
Lotgh isn't a ln though, it's just a regular old novel series. I've read series in the past but I wouldn't say they left any lasting impact on me. The part about drawing or having ability to make anime is massive projection. But I'll still be nice enough to leave you with a (You).

>>19092495
>Lotgh isn't a ln though, it's just a regular old novel series.
Yep, probably should have specified: in your influences, you never include a novel that doesn't have a direct link to anime.

It's funny because I also like all the shit you described as being influenced by. I have a LoGH scroll hanging next to my bookshelf, and I have a figure of Char and some Gunpla on top of the same shelf. But the difference is that I have a bookshelf with stuff that's traditionally considered literature.

>>19092477
My idea for this character is that he starts as a promising young man who endeavors to be good in his station in life, but his personal emotions and the events that happen to him generate feelings of resentment, paranoia, frustration, greed, pride, and bloodlust that drives several central conflicts between major characters. Eventually he realizes what a mess he's made of his life, but I haven't decided if I should give him redemption or reduce him to bitterness (which I feel is always an awful ending). He dies in the end, sort of heroically, surrounded by and because of the downfall he made during the course of his life.

I'd like to think people would be interested in this character to read a whole lot of text about him and the other, more noble or less noble characters.

>>19092485
Insane work ethic

I drunkenly wrote a ironic-kinda unironic political satire and I'm afraid that its cringe and nobody on either side of the political spectrum would be pleased or entertained by it

>>19092778
>I drunkenly wrote a ironic-kinda unironic political satire and I'm afraid that its cringe and nobody on either side of the political spectrum would be pleased or entertained by it
That's how one of the later arcs in my fantasy is going to play out. Worse yet, it's the one I have the most cohesive outline for.

>>19092778
>alpha reader taking a look at the first few chapters of a dystopia story I had an outline for in 2017 before I got to work on it
>intended to be about the anxiety surrounding faith, justification, pessimism, moral irony and the inability of distinguishing a referent from a sign
>"Is this about COVID???????"
I'm gonna do my best to make it clear and if I ever make it and forced to book tour and someone asks me that I will probably strangle them.

>>19092485
he was a genius

So I was thinking of writing a story about a guy who obsessively plays this RPG and then he dies of an aneurysm while pooping on the toilet and God puts him into the game FOR REAL and is like "if you can beat this boss you never beated while playing the game then I will let you live" and so he goes on this long quest to power up and beat that boss so at the end he sits on the throne and then TOTAL MINDFUCK it was all just a hallucination while he died and so he's just dead at the end. I'd call it Shitty Life.

>>19094107
That sounds like an awful isekai, which means it would sell very well if you made it ecchi or a self insert fantasy. It also means no one would respect you as a writer. It also means this was pretty good bait.

>>19094107
Put in a dog npc that wanders around trying to warn the game's citizens of mysterious game viruses that have invaded and I'd read it. Maybe involve a quest line involving a mountain that grants wishes but it's impossible to find it because it's constantly changing shape. Also, burgerpunk dlc.

>>19091104
Anime writers should rot in hell.

does royalroad show the authors email anywhere on their profile? is there any reason I shouldn't use my personal email?

>>19094228
Same reason you don’t use your personal email on any shitty forum site, they always get compromised eventually.

Do I need to pay a Publisher to review my work? is there a fee?

>>19094228
It doesn't show it anywhere.

Was there a phase for you where you felt like you had to get of insecurities or something?

I generally come up with ideas, outline a story, write a few pages, come back to it and think “this is crap”, scrap it, rinse and repeat before I go through a period where I feel like I have no ideas at all. Rinse and repeat. It’s been like this for me for a while now and I’m a beginner but I don’t know what my hangup is.

>>19094254
I really dont want to have to make another email just for RR

>>19094336
go deeper and ask yourself "why is this crap" and improve from there

How would you write about this scene?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d6I4yWykD8

>>19094346
They’re all fantasy tropes and have no real depth to them. Despite the fact that I read almost no fantasy, it’s like I think in fantasy and come up with these overdone ideas that would appeal to 15 year olds. Not to knock people who write for 15 year olds, but I think you understand what I’m trying to say. Nothing I come up seems to be as I want it.

I could just be too harsh on myself, but I don’t think that’s the case or necessarily a bad thing anyway.

>>19094488
So it's unoriginal?
genre? care to share an excerpt?

>>19094336
I always wrote what I loved writing without worrying about if it was good. Later when I matured as a writer, then I had thoughts about my old writing that maybe this is crap. I keep a quote pinned above my writing desk now anytime I get demoralized: "Great writing isn't written. It is distilled." And that keeps me going when I feel down.

>>19094336
I hate everything I write. I hate everything I create. The only reason I have my works up publicly is to show others how interesting some of my ideas are and without that reason I wouldn't show anyone at all. Sometimes it all comes down to accepting what you have.

Finally finished an essay I wrote about a bird that died in my hands
1/4

2/4

>another short story accepted
keep on, lads

3/4

4/4

>>19092611
such as?

Sometimes I think that I have great ideas, but that the general public wouldn't be able to appreciate or interpret them properly.

>>19094686
You lost me in the first sentence. Instead of leading off with "The tableau is mystical," frontload the paragraph with the imagery you use in the second half of that sentence.

>>19094686
Yeah I'm also out at the first sentence. Don't tell me it's mystical and leave it at that, show me how.

>>19094759
Write what you want to read. So what if the public couldn't care less about a dog in the suburbs who finds aliens in his backyard? If that's the story you want to tell, then tell it. You might get some readership out of it, and that's a subjective victory you should clamor for.

>wrote 400 words

>>19094759
>T.
>Dog alien poster

>>19094888
Nice anon! Wrote 1800 words today after a month of flailing around like a fish in hiatus. You got this. Set small goals for yourself and work up from there.

I wrote about 1700 words in about 2 hours last night

>>19094910
actually correction
it was 2300 words

>>19094224
But then there won't be any writers on /wg/.

>>19094957
If all the writers here are anime writers then there aren't any writers after all.

>>19094972
A cope made by pseuds due to their inability to write

>>19094977
"The people who read are the people who like literature, after all, whatever that may be. They like, or require, what books alone have. If they want to see films/anime that evening, they will find films/anime. If they do not like to read, they will not. People who read are not too lazy to flip on the television; they prefer books. I cannot imagine a sorrier pursuit than struggling for years to write a book that attempts to appeal to people do not read in the first place."

>>19094972
>>19094977
neither of you have even read the series to speak on its quality of writing so shut the fuck up

>>19094995
anime? its trash. all of it

>struggling with the current chapter of my novel.
>decide to read some Hemingway
>reread my outline and restart writing it
>chapter is now done and sounds ok

Thanks, Ernesto.

>>19094994
>>19095014
We get it, its pseud cope.

>>19094769
>>19094866
I tried rephrasing it: “The previous day’s snow lines the sidewalks in playful quantities and whitens the roofs of houses and cars, ice layers the residential roads and populates on various ledges in conical form. I hammer away at the piano occasionally being drawn in by the tableau outside.....”

Okay, but, what if, hear me out, the dog and the aliens… were anime?

For those who write in Portuguese: Do you prefer to use "ele tinha feito" or "ele fizera"? Past perfect is just great in Portuguese, but sometimes it may sound odd, especially when you have to deal with reflexive pronouns. I've been using them interchangeably. How do you deal with that in your own writing?

>>19091160
Sometimes one of the voices in my head gets loud enough that I can make out what it's saying over the others. When that happens I drink to shut it up, and by the third glass I start taking notes on whatever crosses my mind. Usually I get one good idea out of a night like that.

what to read for learning long descriptive passages? no self help shit, I want prose I can study not empty scammer maxims

>>19095031
I'm reading my first Hemingway now. I knew he was minimalistic, but I didn't figure he was this threadbare. His dialogue is really clipped too, and even his internal expository sentences are sometimes just fragments. If you read too fast (which is only encouraged by his style) you'll move right past something important.

>>19095208
Henry James, Tolstoy, and ultimately Pynchon.

Try Proust. He's perfect on that.

>>19095208
thats an imagination issue. I'm not sure how you can learn imagination. You need deep inspiration
then the issue is making your prose your own, and not being a cheap copy of that inspiration

>>19095218
He's been my model when it comes to style and sentence pacing lately. I spent so long trying to overwrite everything that I now want to be simpler and shorter. It's also funny how many contemporary writers sound a bit like him. He was ahead of his time really.

>>19095221
>Henry James, Tolstoy, and ultimately Pynchon.
>Try Proust.
Who?

>>19095228
lmao bet. post your writing pseud
>>19095221
thanks

>>19095267
what is pseud about what I said?

>>19094686
I've read this all now, all four pages. It's not...terrible, but it's not good. You have some good sensibilities though, I think, but you are clearly hung up on style and voice and it is not doing you any favours. But overall the content bores me and feels incohesive. I don't see the point of it. And it is strangely high minded and off in parts. I mean it sounds like you are writing about a child or a young adult but you have footnotes as though this were an academic piece, it's comical, but not in a funny way; that could be a comedic device, but currently there is no humour to it, so it comes off as a mannerism, like some of your expressions -- tableau...that's bad, I don't think you are using that word correctly even, a tableau is a scene of still people. And you repeat it too, as though it were some sort of motif, but it's not. Conical forms is another one. There is a word for that, a stalagmite. Funnily enough when I read that bit I imagined a ledge with a cone of ice that went straight up in the air, a stalactite. Electrically warmed air...strange.

I will say that I like the title very much. Negative Celsius.

On a side note, roofs is such an ugly word. I know it's standard now, but Jesus; rooves is so much nicer, they should never have changed it.

>>19095208
John Cowper Powys. Not a fan of the author too much overall from what I've read, but there are a number of passages of description where I thought he was a genius. He, in turn, was majorly inspired by Thomas Hardy.

>>19095031
>struggling with adding new material to bolster the manuscript in the weak spots
>open thematic literary text
>steal random things and pack them in
>everything sounds more impressive and full of literary references
I have 3 texts open side by side to pull from. A chef can't make dinner out of nothing. The more obscure the text you pull from, the better. Poetry works the best.

>>19095408
based neural network

>>19095408
Disingenuous and self-destructive. Stealing is fine if it is organic, not when you just push things in.

>>19091160
they just come sometimes, and if I get chills I write it down

>>19095323
Thanks for the response, yeah I found it difficult to even say anything, it was strange I was caught up more with thinking than actually putting down any words. I didn’t really have any point in particular, though I guess it would be me just wanting to talk about that experience, or maybe I really did have no point. Does high minded mean condescending? If so I would suppose that is correct though I felt as though I wrote it in a way to sort of point out how I sort of cringe at my thoughts, if that makes sense. I get what you mean by off though, is it like my writing feels rushed at times or chaotic(?) I used the footnotes because I wanted a conversational tone I suppose, most of the time when I am talking to friends I’ll usually veer off to go into detail about a certain something. Heh I am gonna sound stupid but when I searched up tableau or heard it being used I always assumed it just meant a scene with figures/objects and not specifically humans, I guess I should’ve denoted its position, When air is heated through air conditioning it feels different (maybe its my perception being wack?).

>>19095426
They slip into place if you know your entire story in your head. I've never made a selection that felt forced--it all enhances the manuscript.
Do you start a drawing by looking at nothing?

>>19095504
I had a lot of moments where I wanted to go off the rail and start lying, but stopped myself.

>>19095504
By high minded I mean pretentious. I looked up tableau and in the American English Dictionary it defines it as a pleasant scene, or something like that, so your usage was fine, that was just me; I'm English not sure if that is why, the English Dictionary has it different. The word still feels too formal though. Like, when I say high minded I meant pretentious but I'm also thinking of register, like voice, tone, and some words in your piece were reaching for a high tone, but unconvincingly. I'm unfamiliar with the sensation of electrically heated air, maybe that's something you could expand on in the piece if it seems like a necessary detail.

What does the character of the piece want? Maybe if you reimagined this whole thing and tried to see it more clearly...in the previous thread there are notes from a book called From Where We Dream and it has some comments on yearning/desire that may be useful, as well as warnings about writing too much 'from your head'.

>>19095574
Yeah I tend to use such words to try to specify what I convey, but it sometimes comes off in the wrong way, I most definitely need to be able to string together sentences that convey what I want without having to rely on formal vocab. Ill definitely check out the previous thread, thank you.

>>19094686
It is a good start. The bones of the story are solid, an element that is harder to correct than diction, grammar, and sentence structure. The filler unrelated to the story, random thoughts, and awkward references can be cut out.
I would suggest learning the proper way to incorporate a semicolon into your writing, they are essential to this narrative style. Pay closer attention to the repetitive use of words like I, my, and the. Don't be terse in your descriptions, especially in short pieces like this, which give a skilled author frequent opportunities to flaunt flowery and ornate prose against the simple narrative.
The story feels like it's supposed to be about unrequited emotion and the trauma of losing an infirmed ward, but it instead comes off as a sad r9kbot struggling to find the words to describe why he's sad. I think that good stories maintain thematic focus, even when the spotlight shifts to the mundane, physical attributes necessary to carry metaphorical weight.

>>19095651
There's nothing wrong with any kind of voice, slang, formal, posh, poor; it just has to be authentic, I think, to the work, and for it to resonate properly with the content of the piece. I say this just to clarify, because you may want to use a voice like that at some point, but maybe it's better now to just tone things down and bring things closer to yourself before you venture out into other voices.

>>19094186
No one respects me as a writer now. Mostly because I use nigger a lot.
>>19094199
These seem like odd suggestions.

>tfw finished the second book of my big sci-fi story this evening

Feels good, bros. I got a somewhat encouraging note from a literary agent a few days ago, too, which is more than I've gotten lately. Maybe things are looking up.

>>19095208
lowry

>>19094272
Publishers generally don't do that. There are specialized services for that.

Is there really a concrete divide between literary fiction and genre fiction? literature has genres like histories, comedies, tragedies, etc., but publishers pretend there's a vast chasm between a general fiction book with poetic prose and some shitty sci fi story consumed by character and plot.

>>19096475
There is a vast gulf. People like Neil Gaiman and Gene Wolfe who never were able to elevate themselves beyond genre trash don't want to admit it but they're not real writers. True literature is not genreshit.

>>19096481
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literariness
Except critics look into the quality of a work being a literary work, not just blindly categorising things before reading them.

>>19096515
>/wg/ knowing anything about writing.
It’s like coming here and asking for help

Have you guys ever heard of an author changing their official name to their pen name?

Like Eric Author Blair changing his legal name to George Orwell.

Just sent my piece off to a magazine in my country. Duotrope says it has a 11% acceptance rate but I think it’s much lower.

>>19095152
This!!!

Looking for a book that deals with descriptions, paragraphs, hopefully what makes good writing. Not interested in story structure or genre, or whatnot. Just need practical advice on how to improve writing.

>>19096767
Any book with good prose will be good examples. Try out Ballard, Pynchon, Faulkner, and McCarthy.

>>19091751
read the first pages of American Gods.

>>19096832
I read it a long time ago, the guy was being released from prison and someone died?

>>19096767
reading like a writer by francine prose. warning: it's dangerously femoidal, at one point she's like "the following opening is perfect at drawing the reader in" and then quotes a paragraph about embroidery and gossip. other than that it's exactly what you're asking for.

>>19096475
it's not a "concrete" divide, it's an arbitrary marketing distinction about what gets stacked at what shelf and how it's advertised. but as "fake" as the division is it has a very real effect on quality because genre works are constrained by the need to please people who are really fucking stupid. if you're a fantasy author you are writing for the fantasy fandom, ie a group of effectively illiterate videogame-playing manchildren, and this will have an impact on your writing particularly since you are most likely yourself a member of that fandom and have been made stupid by participating in it. meanwhile literary writers are, one hopes at least, looking back at the classics and trying to make the dead proud instead of briefly entertaining some despicable idiot that only cares about "magic systems".

>>19096975
Sounds like somebody is mad at Brandon Sanderson.

>F.Gardner fell down the flat earth hole
How do we help him?

>>19097021
Tell him about the hollow ice-ball earth

>>19097021
To me, flat-earth's popularity is a symptom of the erosion of trust with main stream though. While it's stupid, I understand the sentiment of wanting to feel stupid rather than being a sucker. Thought about putting in a flat-earther in a story just for that because I find it interesting.
>>19096124
GJ anon. Writing one book is nice but you need to write two to be an author.

>write my outline, it shows a prologue + 30 chapters
>write the prologue first
>then write chapter 10
>then write chapter 7
I don't get it, why is it like this?

>>19097438
The scenes that stand out to you are the ones you're going to write first. And then the rest of the story is undoubtedly going to be reshaped and formed by how you've written these chapters that you think stand out and are the best. Outlines always change.

>>19097438
You're writing the more importants beats, and depending on how you organize your story's writing, you can write it chronologically, backwards, or get the major beats in first and fill in the rest. Some of our stories at heart are short, but we have to extend them because of how much is at work.

What if you submitted something that a publisher actually liked? And they asked for a meeting and as you were walking into the manager's office your fat ass got jammed in the doorway?

Hey all, this is my latest and final-for-now version of my opening. I need to actually just write instead of revising over my work 100 times since I'm not satisfied with it. Thanks to all who have provided feedback in the past.

>>19097470
When arranging a meeting let them know you have a wide load and they'll accommodate.

>>19097471
Am I completely wrong but don't you say "lounging in" rather than "on"? Like, you sit in a chair instead of on a chair.

>>19097478
Pretty sure both work, but I guess "in" would have a more "lazy, im being consumed by the cushion" connotation whereas "on" is more "just sitting on top of it".

>>19097476
They're not gonna knock down walls just so one fat fuck can get in.

>>19097506
They'll rearrange the meeting at a restaurant.

Day jobs that aren’t counterproductive for writers?

>>19097596
Welding.

I don't know what is poetry and what is good poetry anymore. I am once again mindfucked into thinking poems are just lines and lines of descriptions.

>>19097642
Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me, (with big yawning)
As plurdled gabbleblotchits, in midsummer morning
On a lurgid bee,
That mordiously hath blurted out,
Its earted jurtles, grumbling
Into a rancid festering confectious organ squealer. [drowned out by moaning and screaming]
Now the jurpling slayjid agrocrustles,
Are slurping hagrilly up the axlegrurts,
And living glupules frart and stipulate,
Like jowling meated liverslime,
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes,
And hooptiously drangle me,
With crinkly bindlewurdles,mashurbitries.
Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
See if I don't!

Rejected by a 3rd published today. What a completely pointless existence I lead.

>>19097792
Keep going, I know a lot of published writers that have rejection goals.

>>19097792
>only 3 rejections
This is nothing. Make sure you're working on another project though.

>>19097804
Rejection goals?
>>19097810
I'm working on two.

>>19097816
One I know wants to hit 25 rejections this year, it keeps them submitting without being demoralized. Getting accepted is always a longshot so you might as well make the goal being rejected until you are not.

>>19097825
Well if the odds of getting published are like 1/200 it's not that hard to hit 25.
This shit is as bad as job hunting, except this time it's something I actually care about instead of just a means to an end.

>>19097631
Your gonna fuck up your legs and eyes

>>19097881
Dude you're not supposed to look at the arc with the naked eye

>>19097471
not sure if abraham is the most interesting character. he doesn't seem much more than a "disillusioned guy". even his dialogue was emotionless. he wasn't cynical, he wasn't angry. just... disillusioned.
i'd like to know why he chose suicide. suicide is a big deal. what happened? the tv show isn't giving any hints, and they feel like info dumps. i expect this to be explained very soon.
on a minor note, wouldn't it be more realistic if they euphemize "suicide"?

>>19097596
security guard. more like night job, really. judging from greentext threads in /x/ that job either gives you enough experience to fuel your imagination or enough free time to make shit up.

>>19097596
I'm a research associate in physical sciences. Its half blue collar and half white and multidisciplinary. Not a single day is the same as the one before it. Since I'm not managing the project I can completely forget about work when I get home to write, unless an overnight reaction is running I leave my phone on. I think it's pretty nice. All the data processing has helped me deconvolute my outlines and writing also.

>>19097944
Sounds interesting anon what sort of education

I'm still watching the video of Butler writing that story. On episode 6 now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1B-RGdocpo&list=PLTCv6n1whoI23GmdBZienRW0Q0nFCU_ay&index=6

In this one you see him removing content because it is too analytical and summarising and replace it with things that instead describe it, or hint to it. It is interesting to see him write and delete and rewrite and revise.

>>19098003
Bachelors in Chemistry. It's not easy, a lot of people get filtered by Organic Chem and Calculus but thankfully I barely even use either now. It's mostly Algebra, on the job training and good foresight.

>>19097792
don't give up, don't tell yourself it's a waste. keep trying

There's a foreign idiom that I'm trying to translate to english, preferably with an equivalent idiom or in a short and succint way. The basic gist of the idiom is that "there's no point in trying to convince someone who's shortsighted/greedy to have patience/see the bigger picture". Like, imagine you had a virgin incel who's somehow got a gf and he's desperate to fuck but she won't put out, another friend's trying to tell him to calm down and not ruin the relationship by wanting sex so much but he won't listen, so you tell this friend "dude, it's pointless [insert idiom here]".
Something like that example I just made up on the spot.

Best I can come up with is the term "bigger picture", like "This is what they mean by ' being unable to see the bigger picture', but I was wondering if there's a more fitting idiom.
BTW is there a dictionary for idioms/lemmas/phrases? I'd also like to search and see if there's any related to the topic of coffee

>>19098167
pearls before swine. not an exact fit, however. maybe you should browse a site of english idioms.

>>19098167
https://www.theidioms.com/

also, 'can't see the wood for the trees'

>>19098047
thanks for sharing. this is interesting

>>19098128
>organic chem
consider me one of the filtered. the amount of exceptions in the periodic table's so called "rules" made me realize that the system is so far from polished.

>>19098128
No way I'm getting past organic chem

Just self-publish bros...

>>19098177
Seconding "Don't cast your pearls before swine" which is a biblical verse more meaning don't waste your most profound knowledge on people who can't appreciate it.

>>19098264
Never! I need at least 8 rejections before I'll even consider that!

>>19098203
I was curious so I just downloaded the book where that story eventually gets published, Had a Good Time. The story is called This is Earl Sandt. I haven't watched all the videos, so I haven't seen him write the second half of the story, but I do find it remarkable how much of what he has written is there in print; it's basically all there. It hasn't been chopped up by editing after the fact, he wrote it all in one go, basically, just editing as he went day by day.

>>19097792
>>19097804
>>19097810
>>19098153
You know the thing about rejections is that failure should teach you something but getting rejected by a publisher doesn't teach you anything because they never tell you what you did wrong, they don't personalize those emails at all.

>>19098387
you have to trust in yourself and your abilities, if publishers aren't offering feedback then your choices are to try another editing pass to make sure it's tight and as good as it can be, or just keep trying. can't be disheartened early on

>>19098387
same with my short stories and those magazines desu. "not a good fit for this issue's theme" my ass. it's shit, that's what. but that's okay.

>>19098436
>>19098449
Yeah sure. And I get why they don't offer any criticism but it's still a pain on this end.

>>19095740
I will definitely consider what you said. The draft filled around 8 pages of college ruled paper, I found myself cutting out a lot of the overly descriptive stuff because it wasn’t really well done, do you have any good books that have great descriptions of scenery etc against a simple narrative? Same with thematic focus, does it have to do with phrasing?

>>19098693
Initially when i started writing this piece i felt there would be a lot to say from an emotional standpoint, however I often found myself struggling because I guess i felt it more on a subconscious level and the way I was writing I never really got into the “zone”. I will definitely revise the work.

>>19098693
not him, but thematic focus means everything in the story is somehow related. i can't remember who but someone said 'landscape is character'. everything in the landscape is a reflection on the person who sees it, as it their focus naturally falls on things that speak about their inner state.

e.g. a depressed man enters a toy shop and focuses on the toys of skeletons or an action man without a head left in the corner.

>>19098728
Alright got it, thank you.

Recommendations for book cover illustrators pls

>>19098811
the look of the book - peter mendelsund

might be what you want?

>>19097921
The point is that he's supposed to be emotionally dull and empty until a revelation that will occur soon and begin the real meat of the plot. I had hoped the TV show to be more interesting to make up for that, but if you call it an "info dump" then that leaves me worried.
Everything here with the suicide and why he's so boring will be explained soon, but if this isn't interesting to you then 20 pages is definitely too long.

give me good places to write
its been weeks since i've written anything and I think its due to being locked up at home all day

>>19099620
Write about a dog who talks but only cats can understand him. He's in his suburban backyard taking a shit explaining to a stray cat about his crazy owner rambling on about his burgerpunk cosmic wish mountain story that has been rejected 30 times, and how he is confident in his rejection goals. Then a UFO lands next to him, and in his statement shits even harder. The alien and dog try communicating with each other to no end, so the dog, with his paws now covered in shit, tries his best to warn his owner of the impending aliens, to also no luck. Good luck.

>>19099641
based but completely missed my question lol

>>19099620
oops uh, too groggy and misread the question. You could try the good old starbucks or coffee cafe I guess?

I want to advertise my book on here but I'm insanely irrationally afraid

>>19094354
Have you even tried?

There's several ways you can do it, also from different perspectives.

>>19099710
try it, if you self-publish nothing could really go wrong

Should i keep writing? I know i will never be famous. I write mostly for hobby. When i get bored i write around 6k words and publish on wattpad. I don't write Nothing that sort of bullshit that gets published in wattpad. No fan fiction bullshit either. At this point, i feel like i am just killing time. Maybe when i finish my book i'll just print around 100 books and give to people close to me

>>19099887
It's kind of a cliché to say you have to write for yourself, but it's true. If you enjoy writing, keep it going. I don't why you'd have to stop.

>>19099887
if you write you write. publishing is a separate thing, it doesn't even matter; it's an unworthy goal and just a distraction. it only matters that you have the desire to create with language.

>>19099887
It's kind of a cliché to say you have to write for yourself, but it's true. If you enjoy writing, keep it going. I don't see why you'd have to stop.

Around a month into sending queries to agents, most of the ones that haven't responded are agents that let the query sit in their inbox until it expires after 121 days.
I figure that after I exhaust the agents and all my queries expire I'll start looking into self-pub

>>19100061
where do you live anon? Just the general geographic area and whether its a large city or not is fine

>>19100123

Texan suburbs

>>19100061
What did you send them?

>>19100131
do you think it would improve if you lived in a place with more publishers?

>>19100135

Query letters primarily consist of a bio about yourself, a pitch of your manuscript, general information about it, who you think the target audience is, a synopsis of the entire plot and sample pages (they usually specify how much they want, usually something like first 10 pages or first 2.5k words. Though i've had people ask for first 3 chapters or first 50 pages as well.)

>>19100142

I think I live in the best possible place in terms of geographic proximity to publisher headquarters, actually.

>>19100168
>Formerly known as "The Big 6" (until Random House and Penguin officially merged in June 2013), all of the Big 5 book publishers have their main U.S. headquarters in the hub of book publishing, New York City.
I've always considered new york to be the best place, why do you think its your location? are there a lot of small publishers in texas?

>>19090762
>loved writing and reading books
>COVID forced me back home with parents
>can't write anything without my brother looking over my shoulder and giving me shit
>dad thinks writing is a waste of time for me unless I go to law school
>get shat on by him so often that I look at anything I've written with scorn now
What the fuck can I do?
>>19097596
Blue-collar is good for getting your imagination going, especially if you're in landscaping. Travel to a lot of nearby homes, meet a bunch of new people, and you're not sitting on your ass doing soulless work.
>>19099887
I struggle with a similar issue. I am terrified of publishing anything I've written. Its like showing the world my innermost self to be judged and mocked. I do love writing for myself or with friends, however.

>>19100207

You don't query publishers directly, they generally don't accept cold submissions directly from authors. You gotta get an agent to query for you and sell your manuscript to a publisher.

It's a retarded remnant from old-media, but we gotta play the game unless you wanna submit to publishers with GRAPHIC DESIGN IS MY PASSION tier websites

>>19100230
Becoming a writer as a profession is the most stupid thing you can do - unless you're already set for life financially. Get a real job that's easy and pays well and write in your free time, then if you manage to hit success with a publisher you can quit.

>>19099955
>>19099959
Thanks. I am always conflicted about this. I want my story to be read by people but at the same time i want to keep writing even no one reads. I will keep writing but i'll publish even no one reads. If i somehow lose my data, it can stay on wattpad anyway.
>>19097596
There is a saying in my hometown. "If you are a public servant you would have the imagination of a lemon. Don't work for government."

>>19090762
So, I am writing a novel in prose that i've been thinking for a long time.

What's the best way of keeping track of characters and their status? Currently i'm "tracking" a group of about 10 people, with different backgrounds and stuff.

Excel, or just plain file? How do you organize your cast?

>>19100288
I keep mental track of characters for the most part. I also have a list of characters in my Scrivener document, but it's not something I actively keep updated.

>>19100255
>Becoming a writer as a profession is the most stupid thing you can do - unless you're already set for life financially. Get a real job that's easy and pays well and write in your free time, then if you manage to hit success with a publisher you can quit.
This is the plan.
I have a degree in STEM, the issue is the job hunt is going really poorly. Once I can find a good job and pay off my student loans, I'm virtually set for life, but until then I'm stuck an anxious wreck in my parent's basement applying anywhere I can find. Current circumstances are having a horrendous impact on mental attitude.
>>19100313
I use Excel. Its helpful if you want to just group together all the fundamentals of who your characters are into rows.

>>19100392
>degree in STEM
>having trouble finding a job
bachelors in engineering at a state university?

>>19100398
lol why does that matter?

>>19100260

I'm a librarian uhuuhuu

>>19100401
Only morons have trouble finding a STEM job.

>>19100416
true, everybody here except for that one guy are really very super smart

/lit/ is a terrible site because it automatically puts you in the conceit of writing for your peers rather than the general public. write for the people whose heads you're afraid to get into and then maybe you'll produce something interesting

>>19100428
i use /lit/ when i'm bored but i tend to take anything that i feel is subjective and throw it in the garbage when i'm writing.
I literally could be getting advice from an insane homeless man for all I know....

>>19100398
>bachelors in engineering at a state university?
Computer Science at a Jesuit university. Grades weren't the best, though I graduated with a 3.1 GPA at least. I got roped into attempting to graduate in three years for a law program, only to find out in my junior year from a new advisor that the school's CS program was not designed for three years at all, and I ended up taking my senior capstone at the same time as multiple classes required just to take it. Not a fun time. Failed one class, said fuck it and dropped the other program, had a fantastic final year academics wise and got a better score in the failed course.

>>19100459
Then apply for a code monkey job and get 70k starting.

>>19100459
location, location, location brother. If your city/town has NO computer science jobs then will have to move to a better city/town.

>>19100471
spoken like a true retard

>>19100479
What, you want to be more than a code monkey with a 3.1 gpa?

>>19100471
I've been doing that for the past 4 months lmao.
>>19100475
Yeah, I've been applying places out of state for about a month and a half now, was kind of skeptical about trying places far from my home state, but at this rate I'll take whatever.

>>19100481
no, you are never going to get above 55k (even in san fran) for a starting coding job especially if you don't have the network or gpa.

>>19100494
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Full-Stack-Software-Developer-Salary
I'm not even going to argue, just look at the link.

>>19100490
honestly brother, move to a better city (if you have the funds, start saving now if you don't), get a shit job, and start applying for coding jobs while in that city.
Covid has fucked any moving in-between states, but i mean you gotta do what you gotta do.
Most out-of-state jobs won't consider you unless they are desperate (or if you apply for something like help desk position that is irrelevant), but maybe you can do it. its not impossible.
>>19100511
you think someone will hire a coding person with no experience for 80k? You have no idea what you are talking about.
Look at that lower end, who do you think are the 23% getting paid less then 60k? Its not the guys with 5~10 years experience

>>19100527
No experience? I guess if you went to university and did nothing but take classes for 4 years then yeah... but the whole point of university is that there are projects to get you basic experience. Even something like "senior design project: worked on website including backend database + frontend angular vs.jue blahblahblah" is enough to get you 70k starting as long as you're competent.
Of course I haven't actually worked a code monkey job, I actually do computer "science" and got a higher starting salary than that. So maybe you're right.

>>19100527
Got roughly 4k in the bank right now, but I have a car payment on top of that. My student loans don't start kicking me in the ass until 2022, so I have some time to get my act together at least. I have some family out in DC and MA I could hit up if worse comes to worst.
>>19100537
>Even something like "senior design project: worked on website including backend database + frontend angular vs.jue blahblahblah" is enough to get you 70k starting as long as you're competent.
My senior capstone was actually something I'm pretty proud of, though I no longer have access to a single one of the files. I'm not sure if a recruiter would be turned off by me unable to present something relevant to it.

>>19100604
The recruiters will ask you questions about it, at most they'll ask for a link to see your work.

so what is the best city to be a writer in?

How do you describe a woman character to have a big dick energy?

>>19100644

dont have women in your writing at all

>>19100644
Just put her near someone who acts like a pussy.

>>19100641
A big famous one so you can live the "lifestyle" weather you make it or not

>>19100644
A brave woman? One who respects and wants to take after their father.

>>19097021
Based. F Gardner is a genius

>>19100644
Just have her have a simp girl friend. Alternatively, just write her like a normal being, or in this case, write a guy, call it a girl.

>>19100672
whats the writer "lifestyle"? Is it being poor asf and living under a bridge? Cause I can totally see myself doing that

Chapter 49 released.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
>>19100644
Easy. You just don't have her life revolve around social media, television, substance abuse or some other inanity. Give her a real hobby, one that requires being outside/working with her hands, a feminine one even. Knitting, gardening, horseback riding. So nothing like 90%+ of modern women.

here's the picture

>>19100751
excellent advice from an anime writer

>>19100763
>anime writer
shit, I can't even disagree. anime writers are the only ones writing, as we all know. QED

>>19100777
better to not write at all than to be a gardner

>>19100777
Checked. Also trips of truth.

>>19100785
You're referring to Professor F. Gardner. Isn't he teaching a university course or something? I'd have said I'm not even sure he's an anime writer, but he did write something so, you know.

>>19100801
Have you read his work at all? He, would never be hired with his use of, commas.

>>19100751
Is royalroad good to use if you're just starting out? Feel like the occasional feedback with say, a weekly chapter update, would be enough motivation to get me to finish what I've started.

>>19100815
>feedback
I'm not going to say I haven't gotten feedback - I have - but the vast majority of stuff you get is thanks for the chapter. Which is gratifying in its own right. But, to put it in perspective, I had 18 followers at chapter 18. I have 88 at chapter 49. A lot of people on the site won't even read stuff if its less than 100k words. They won't even open it.
That said I would definitely recommend Royal Road. I'm using it as a middle publishing sort of thing for feedback. When my story is completely up, probably like 90 chapters total, I'm writing chapter 79 right now, I'm going to do another editing pass on and eventually move it to Kindle. This will only be done after my second book has been drafted to at least 200k words and I start putting it up on Royal Road. So it'll probably be up for like 6 months after its been complete.
>>19100807
I haven't yet had the pleasure.

>>19100878
Good for you, because I've read about two pages and I think he legitimately has a sticky comma key or something. It's saddening. He must be ESL or something.

How do you get over being afraid to post your work?

>>19100651
>>19100670
>>19100678
>>19100700
>>19100751
What I'm looking for is a way to describe a character's suaveness where her introduction paragraph alone radiates the "person you should never mess with" vibe, like the aura of a godfather, hence the "big dick energy"

>>19100912
By making her act bold and badass? How is this even a question?

>>19100908
Why would you want to? You should be hyper selective with who you trust with your work. Criticism from the wrong place, from someone who doesn't understand what you want to do and who you are, people who actually know fuck all about literature . . . you can't trust them. Fact is most writers will have no one in their life, ever, to share their work with to gain criticism. It is what it is, fuck it.

>>19100912
Maybe the atmosphere turns icy when she enters the room, other characters might avert eye contact or address her with the utmost respect. Hard to go off anything really. Maybe she wears a jacket over her shoulders and she smokes a pipe, and speaks tersely, with buff high-class scarred-face hugs behind her. Maybe the PoV might've heard stories of her unparalleled brutality, and she rarely comes to meetings in the first place except for cases like this. And indeed maybe the PoV hints at her presence throughout the entire story and once he does meet her, he and everyone else in the room shits her pants. I dunno man, my juices are flowing just throwing stuff at the wall here.

>>19100912
I'd say channel Teddy Roosevelt. Speak softly and carry a big stick. Its not how she acts, its how deferential other people are to her.

>>19091160
i rip them from the fucking ether.

>>19100925
If people are saying your work sucks wouldn't that mean it sucks? Not you specifically but in general.

>>19100970
No. Within reason. Taste accounts for a lot. There are some things that are objective though, but even they can be reworked by an artist: think of the punctuation of Jon Fosse, Saramago, Hilbig . . .

But it seems so obvious as to not need clarifying that you shouldn't show your work to people you have no respect for, which for any thinking person would be 99% of the people on here, for instance, and the odds in real life may be worse than that.

>>19101021
This would be assuming you are actually trying to create art, of course, and not just a sellable product, or some sort of anime masturbation, in which case, you may as well throw that shit to the wind because only idiots would read that anyway.

>>19101021
Did you get bullied here anon? Its alright man, we are all anonymous here. You can tell us.

Almost done my high fantasy novel bros. Soon the easy part comes where it's immediately picked up by a prestigious publishing house, put on Oprah's Book Club and Amazon Best Seller and other lists and I'm living comfortably for the rest of my life writing more works to be enjoyed by the masses. Probably a movie deal to make a pozzed version of it loaded with diversity hires and lgbtqaaip2+ people. Lookin' good my dudes.

>>19100957
Now this is a good shit, anon. I can imagine producing badass characters with this. Much appreciated.

By any chance, do you guys have some memorable badass character introductions you'd like to share?

>>19100157
That's one hell of a good letter.

>The only keyword doing numbers is "the suicide squad"
I didn't think advertising on Amazon would be this hard.

>>19101210
What do you mean, the only keyword doing numbers?

Do you think this is good advice? https://litreactor.com/essays/chuck-palahniuk/nuts-and-bolts-%E2%80%9Cthought%E2%80%9D-verbs

>>19101210
>advertising a book with Amazon
People don't buy books by ads like they do with toothpaste, they get it from word of mouth. Talk to a publicist, they will help you get the word out.

>>19101427
Good idea, I've also thought about paying for a review
>>19101405
Getting clicks. I've had 30,000 "impressions" (an ad was displayed) but only 25 clicks. The only sale from ad I've had is from an author called Nisi Shawl lolol

How important is it to you to pass the bechdel test with your writing?

>>19101490
I had no idea if this even existed. Who cares? Just write you mongaloid.

>>19101468
Shawl was on Writing Excuses last year talking about religion in fiction and writing "other" people who aren't like the author. She may not have household recognition but plenty of writers know who she is at least with genre fiction.

>>19101411
No, it's too cut and dry. The idea behind it is good, but if you can grasp that idea, then you shouldn't have to restrict your vocabulary. In the last thread I spoke about From Where We Dream where the author inveighs against abstraction, summary, analysis and generalisation, and the reason behind it is similar to the reasons of that article--they defer from the moment to moment sensuality of a piece. But that author also acknowledges exceptions, because there are always exceptions.

>>19100807
Filtered. Gardner’s books are next level literature

>>19100893
>2 pages

Okay this is sad. The dude writes short books and you can’t finish? This sounds like an attention span problem. As someone who has actually read Call of the Crocodile I can say it’s an avant garde masterpiece. And no you’re time is not too valuable. You are here.

>>19101537
Ya I've been scraping popular books and authors off Amazon's website. I had never heard of her.

>>19100807
Also btw editors take care of commas.

>>19101573
>>19101586
>>19101594

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gR_n8win2Vs

This vid explains how Call of the Crocodile is great.

>>19101603
So why does this board only talk about gardnener’s crocodile book? He’s written other books you know. I don’t get the odd obsession with that one book. Is it really that much better than all his others?

>>19101490
>Bechdel Test
It's too specific and really what you should be asking is does my character only have feelings about one thing and how do I make them more well-rounded and realistic. Give them a variety of emotions, weaknesses, quirks, mannerisms etc.
The Bechdel test just helps write women realistically as being able to focus on something other than their love interest (or whichever man they obsess over). If you are writing Romance you can absolutely allow your character to obsess over a person and someone lovesick people do.

I ignore shit-tests like this out of spite. I put in characters from backgrounds that are plot relevant and make them think about things that matter. Recently I edited a scene of the protagonist's wife learning how to do something with a different male character, and only at the very end of the scene is her husband brought up because they are forced to acknowledge a dramatic irony that was brewing for a few chapters. There's also a scene where she talks with a woman in public, but not about her husband. Does this pass the test? Don't care. This character was originally a Pentecostal and raised to be submissive and traditional, which is very other from what I'm used to. Bechdel wouldn't understand this background and behavior is crucial for her motivation to connect with others and the decision she makes in the story.

Furthermore, the outline for next story I'm working on has Jews and Persians from 700 BC. Am I gonna look up shit-tests on depicting Jews? No, but I'll talk to a few Jewish theologians to get the ancient stuff right. I just want to make them likeable characters that are true to the world they lived in, not the pluralistic world we live in today.

>their novel doesn't have lgbtq representation

Big no-no that a lot of new writers make. Something that will make publishers immediately know you're a novice and hit you with a pass.

>>19101674
>Headshot
>Literally in their room with their shelf filled with tacky books and probably funkos and smokemart dragon statues

>>19101674
I was going for midsize to big publishers but I was curious and looked at small and indie publishers and a shocking amount of them are dedicated to wammen and minorities. Some of them even say, and I kid you not:
>we are not accepting manuscripts
>unless you are black or gay
Usually that or they are apologizing for being out of business.

>>19101674
she'd probably lose 10 lbs if she took off her makeup

>want to change something
>not sure if I should change it
>huge ripple effect if I do
>could also work if I don't
>get so indecisive I make no progress for a whole month

kill me

>>19101796
We get it, you don’t write, neither does anyone else here, so I don’t know what makes you so special.

>>19101796
The line of words is a hammer. You hammer against the walls of your house. You tap the walls, lightly, everywhere. After giving many years’ attention to these things, you know what to listen for. Some of the walls are bearing walls; they have to stay, or everything will fall down. Other walls can go with impunity; you can hear the difference. Unfortunately, it is often a bearing wall that has to go. It cannot be helped. There is only one solution, which appalls you, but there it is. Knock it out. Duck.

Courage utterly opposes the bold hope that this is such fine stuff the work needs it, or the world. Courage, exhausted, stands on bare reality: this writing weakens the work. You must demolish the work and start over. You can save some of the sentences, like bricks. It will be a miracle if you can save some of the paragraphs, no matter how excellent in themselves or hard-won. You can waste a year worrying about it, or you can get it over with now. (Are you a woman, or a mouse?)

The part you must jettison is not only the best-written part; it is also, oddly, that part which was to have been the very point. It is the original key passage, the passage on which the rest was to hang, and from which you yourself drew the courage to begin. Henry James knew it well, and said it best. In his preface to The Spoils of Poynton, he pities the writer, in a comical pair of sentences that rises to a howl: “Which is the work in which he hasn’t surrendered, under dire difficulty, the best thing he meant to have kept? In which indeed, before the dreadful done, doesn’t he ask himself what has become of the thing all for the sweet sake of which it was to proceed to that extremity?”

So it is that a writer writes many books. In each book, he intended several urgent and vivid points, many of which he sacrificed as the book’s form hardened. “The youth gets together his materials to build a bridge to the moon,” Thoreau noted mournfully, “or perchance a palace or temple on the earth, and at length the middle-aged man concludes to build a wood-shed with them.” The writer returns to these materials, these passionate subjects, as to unfinished business, for they are his life’s work.

Annie Dillard

>>19101844
I don't fill out a captcha and call it a day

fag

>>19101844
Dubs of Truth.

>>19101853
This. You have to kill your darlings if they don't work with the more important things. I had a number of rambling sections that were so poorly characterized with what I eventually decided the characters to be like that I threw them into my boneyard document. I even removed one character in the intro because I realized he was utterly not important, I don't want to waste time introducing literal who's in the first chapter and it was dragging down the pacing as well.

>>19101674
What I have so far has a scene of castrating a South American native with a piece of twine and fucking him in the ass. Is this enough diversity?

>>19101674
My book features a society of all males, but they’re more asexual than anything. Is that good enough representation?

>>19101674
actually sweetie, my novel is actually about a lesbian harem

>>19102045
Sweety, lesbians wouldn’t keep a harem. Only evil straight males keep harems.

>>19101897
Yes but add a second boy just incase.

>>19101927
As long as none of them are white.

>>19102045
As long as none of them are attractive.

>>19101674
The discord server I’m on is filled with faggots. Good enough?

>>19102254
a writing server would inexplicably end up filled with inoffensive politically correct fags that never offer meaningful criticism and just huff each others farts

>>19101674
One of the later characters in my sci-fi piece is a genetically engineered hermaphrodite who can't escape the fact that people keep finding out she has a dick because there's an active war going on between "evolutionary humans" and most (but not all) genetically engineered subtypes for living on extreme planets

It's not about LGBTQ, it's about hating the corporation that inflicted the abnormality on an unborn child

>>19102367
>a writing server would inexplicably end up filled with inoffensive politically correct fags that never offer meaningful criticism and just huff each others farts
I think this is my biggest fear but I'm not sure how to offer meaningful criticism when I can see the good in most work. Maybe I'm just a retard.

>>19101573

F Gardner has become a boogeyman on this server. Like /pol/ and “It’s Da Jooz!”
Irrational.

>>19102254
All servers are like this

This thread is dogshit. No interesting conversations, no interesting work posted or criticism given, just anime and sad /lit/ meme authors. Do better.

>>19102486
>/lit/ meme authors

Where do you think we are .jpg

>>19102486
I could post mine but it falls under what /wg/ describes as "anime" and therefore you won't find it interesting. I'll probably post it anyway next thread whenever I finish this chapter I guess.

>>19102486
i will post a section of the short story i'm working on in the next thread, but you gotta give me good feedback. capisce?

>>19102486
Price of success. Anyone who gets to F. Gardner or Waldun's level will be labeled a meme author.

>>19102486
Nobody on /wg/ writes, so i don't know what you were expecting.

>>19102526
So what? Gardner's the bomb.

>>19102551
He’s overrated. He’s wrote that fucking crocodile book. What else? Just one fucking book? Big deal.

>>19102581
Dude. He has like a dozen books.

>>19102581
He wrote a dozen or so books. Stop being a pseud and just write.

I am so fucking tired of gardner. Every time anyone mentions his fucking name you just get the same 5 faggots who spam the thread. I bet you weren't even browsing /wg/ and literally have a fucking bot that alerts you whenever his name is fucking said. Fuck off. Meanwhile >>19102486 is right, except that there WAS work posted and nobody is even fucking reading it.

>>19102673
>I am so fucking tired of gardner.

Fuck off with your negative mindset. He just happens to be the most known instance of a writer from here. Don't get your panties in a bunch over someone else's success. Instead of bitching and attempting to make Gardner into a boogieman you could be posting your own writing.

>>19102750
These gardner posts literally repeat the same writing style. This is /lit/, people can identify writing styles. It's always "stop being such a bitch. he's just the most successful writer on /lit/. Why don't you write?"
The mods started deleting your thinly veiled faggot shill threads, you really want them to start deleting your posts too?

>>19102761
Holy crap. That man lives rent free in your head. People are saying that he’s the most known writer from here because he’s the only one that I know of. Before you accuse me of being him know that I haven’t even read the man’s work. But you have encouraged me to buy a copy due to your autism.

>>19102777
>But you have encouraged me to buy a copy due to your autism.
Make it less fucking obvious lmfao. NOBODY is reading his work. His book has like 2 sales a month.
>inb4 amazon stats are lying to you

>>19102777
You obviously never met Dug Alans.

>>19102486
Fuck off, multiple works were posted in the last few threads and were criticized fairly and given advice. Also most of us spend our time actually writing a lot instead of posting everything we make. Doomposters like you come around every other day to bitch about nothing.

>>19102781
Well now he has 3

>>19102807
It’s literally the same guy samefagging that he hates Gardner. This happened around a month ago.

Sent my manuscript to 4 new publishers. If I ever make it, I'm going to take a copy of my book and I'm writing a dedication in it to you all.

Don't respond to Frank pls

>>19102919
>Sent my manuscript to 4 new publishers.
Might wanna send to more. Also see if they even allow simultaneous submissions, since some do not. The average acceptance rate is about 1% or less, so you'd have to send more out to make any chance of success.

>>19091160
Yoko taro, Suda51 and other madman who produce interesting stories. I have very few anime influences since most of my inspirations come from the games I play. Monogatari is probably the only anime influence i have

>>19103049
Weeb games are just playable anime, turbo weeb

>>19103049
>I get inspiration from games
Why not just fucking make a game then? Stop spoiling books with your shit.

>>19103010
If you send it to 100 places you still only have the same odds as if you send it to 1. Fact is they probably won't read your manuscript at all since you're an unknown quantity and they're not desperate enough to gamble on that.