/lit/ - Literature

>>19087668
>'science progresses and philosophy doesn't.'
what does science progress towards?

>>19087696
More grant money

Philosophy (good philosophy, maybe) necessarily requires a complete disregard for one's own well-being. A philosopher has to accept that truths transcend them, and has to accept the reality that their own mission may one day drive them to a complete meltdown or even worse, an early grave. It's all in the name of a larger movement towards truth that stretches thousand years. They sacrifice themselves to that. To put yourself in those shoes, you have to gerrrrggghhhh..... yechhhhrggg.... w-woah... sorry about that, partner... my stomach is feeling a little choppy here, I lost my train of thought...right right, I think you really have to keep in mind just how self-destructive philosophy typically ends up being, and what kind of man would willing puooOOoohh... th-that w- ooooeeuuughffff... wow... I must have really eaten something sinister, this is... this is a rough one... feels like high tide at the Bay of Biscay down therr-err-echhooohhhh.... alright, h-hold that thought, partner... I'm gonna hit the toilet real quick, it feels like trouble's a-brewin' down on the southern front... just gottaahhh-h w-wow... just gotta get my bearings straight here... mother have mercy, I'm sweating like swine in summer... just need to relax a bit... o-ohh… easy does it… let’s just focus on making way to the commode… oh, I’m burning, I’m burning up… could have been that chicken parmesan last night… the guy at the deli seemed a bit too eager to sell me that breast… just need to get a cold pack or something… h-hoo… oh nelly, that’s pungent… that’s a chewy one, no doubt…. nearly there… just need to fend off the flood for a few more moments… e-easy… easieehhhh-h… close call… oh I’m drenched… on the eve of the consolidation of Emperor Avitus' power too… why today of all days...

>>19087696
Pic related

>>19087720
I hate to break it to singularityfags but it won't happen.

>>19087696
>what does science progress towards?
A society where humans can be saved with medical technology, one where humans can live in outer space, perhaps even a post scarcity society?
Damn what a stupid question.

>>19087724
Why is it good to live longer? Why should we want to live in outer space? Why is post-scarcity a worthwhile good?
Have fun answering these questions without philosophy.

>>19087720
dope

>>19087732
>Why is it good to live longer?
Pretty sure you don't need philosophy to not want to die

>>19087738
Let us say that my natural response is to say 'I would prefer to live longer'. Should I agree with my natural response, or should I ignore it?

>>19087724
>All suffering will be revealed in two weeks, you shall walk as giants among the stars and not know death, you will have all you wish.
This sounds like a bodily Utopia, a vain hope for a mindless man. Perhaps you should philosophize on what is actually best for yourself, god knows these men aren't.

>>19087752
You admit there is a natural impulse to continue living no philosophy required

>>19087696
>what does science progress towards?
this gay troll meme
no i am not kidding

>>19087696
>>19087732
>>19087752
mate how about you make your fucking point instead of asking these embarrassing questions like you're a socratic movie character rather than a delusional redditor who struggled with high school math. goddamn i want to stab this kid

>>19087777
quads of truth

https://thephilosophytakeaway.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-source-of-meaning-by-kevin-solway.html

>>19087724
>>19087696
"either science or philosophy is the only way to truly progress"
Jesus Christ you guys are severely retarded

>>19087752
My honest answer: have sex

>>19087796
Huh?

>>19087778
I asked a goodfaith question, idk what the other guys is doing. I understand what he's jiving at but he is unable to make a premise.

>>19087732
>Have fun answering these questions without philosophy.
Nobody said philosophy can't exist any more you retard.

>>19087724
> perhaps even a post scarcity society?
sounds like a living nightmare, imagine existence without struggle and conflict

based mario

>>19087777
Since when did troll face get so profound?

>>19087822
You're not forced to partake. Anyway the question was what does science progress towards, not whether or not you liked its destination.

>>19087778
Humans have, since the dawn of their existence, been continuously sharpening their knives. This process of knife sharpening is nowadays called 'science'. And the one who we mean to stab is Death. But no matter how sharp our knives, we always lose. Those who possess wisdom know that there is no point in the attempt.

>>19087827
The future is now old man

>>19087803
you dumb fuck, I know you are not the same, that is the fucking point. It is not either science or philosophy, but both together, always has been

>>19087696
More trannies and fags

>>19087865
>you dumb fuck, I know you are not the same
>It is not either science or philosophy
perhaps I am really retarded, but I do not remember saying any of these things.

>I warned you.

RESUMÉ

VERSVS

CVRRICVLVM VITÆ.

>>19087896
How do you make this æ on a computer keyboard?

>>19087902
copy and the paste from Wikipedia

>>19087738
AI says i'm gonna live to be 81. that's fine. I don't want to live to be 91 or 101.
>inb4 you can see more society as a passive observer.
Your faculties don't even work anymore.

>>19087668
The Dawkins quotes are based though

>>19087902
>He doesn't have latinized keyboard

Go back

>>19087777
That is the most cringe image I have ever seen

>>19087887
Maybe if you learned to speak more clearly people would have listened

>>19087668
>Retardawkins: muh common sense is scientific fact
>Le Science: aCtUaLlY
How could a scientist he this dumb?

>>19087668
the tyson quote is almost profound for how retarded it is. the posterboy for modern science dogmatism, which touts its greatest virtue as a relentless pursuit of "facts" and "knowledge" even if it's for only the sake of understanding more about reality, cannot grasp why someone would "concern themselves" with trying to understand something about reality
amazing

>>19087924
cringe is the new based

>>19087924
face my quads then nigger

The Selfish Gene is a great book

>>19088190
Most of /lit/ would legitimately struggle to understand it

>>19088195
I know that Dawkins is writing to dispel nihilistic philosophy specifically, but he's also popular so it's easier to blame him whenever I'm disappointed that YouTube a generation more inclined to (insert child idol I dare not mention) rather than Montaigne.

>>19087720
context?

>>19087777
These edits of trollface where so fucking good.
I remember reading the "You still think there was a war?" one and the fucking phrase "WARS AREN'T REAL, BUT THE GENOCIDE OF YOUR PEOPLE IS" was so raw that I was searching for a source.

>>19087777
fucking based

>It is an ancient belief, going back to classical antiquity, that specialization of any kind is illiberal in a freeman. A man willing to bury himself in the details of some small endeavor has been considered lost to these larger considerations which must occupy the mind of the ruler.

>The theory of empiricism is plausible because it assumes that accuracy about small matters prepares the way for valid judgment about large ones. What happens, however, is that the judgments are never made. The pedantic empiricist, buried in his little province of phenomena, imagines that fidelity to it exempts him from concern with larger aspects of reality.

>>19087720
where is Chad?

>>19087696
transgenderism

>>19087696
>progress towards?
More knowledge faggot.
And yes, me learning more stuff about primes and having more conveniences is worth your son becoming a tranny.

>>19087668
anyone else hate lawrence krauss? i want to flog that cunt

>>19087924
>>19087827
The trollface is concentrated sensation and metacognation. After oscillating between cringe and profundity in shortening intervals it has reached a transcended superposition.

>>19088625
*metacognition

>>19087777
Checked

>>19088625
>metacognation

>>19088947
I corrected myself fuck you

>>19088947
holy based

>>19087668
>physics decided in favour of Plato
>the smallest units of matter are not physical objects ... they are forms
Wtf this is not what Plato said the forms were at all, he didn't say the forms were the "smallest matter", they exist in a transcendent realm.
I think he might be confusing this with Leibniz's monadology, right?

>>19088947
Bretty based, gotta say. Drawfags deserve more love (here, have mine <3).

>>19089350
Even the physicists who praise philosophy still haven't read enough to actually understand any of it. Ever scientist who thinks he knows something about philosophy, for or against it, is like this for some reason. It's almost like they just picked up a philosophy book one time, skim read it then got back to work on the latest physics or maths problems.

>>19089350
>>19089461
Both of you have comically misunderstood him. He is not saying they are forms on account of their size, per se, but that they cannot be treated as objects, corpuscles, or particles like before. They are not matter like how we would concieve it (solid, liquid, gasseous, or otherwise) but rather mathematical structures which act in a defined way (waves, probability spaces, and this sort of thing). I'm not a physicist so maybe my ignorance is showing but he very clearly means to say that physicist no longer try to think of these obscure objects in analogy with objects we know (except when it's useful) but rather they treat them as idealized mathematical forms (again, as opposed to how school children are still taught to think of the atom, see picrel). I hope I made my point clear. Maybe some physics guy can clear up my mistakes and clarify.

>>19089509
>like before.
That is, like physicists used to treat the things they studied.

>>19087696
Read Industrial Society and it’s Future

>>19089461
>It's almost like they just picked up a philosophy book one time, skim read it then got back to work on the latest physics or maths problems.
I'll add that this post in particular is especially comical since the best philosophy has consistently been made by mathematicians and logicians. I honestly have no idea where this hostility from people in the humanities comes from but I honestly implore you to look back at the history of philosophy. The bond that these to disciplines share is sacred and ancient.

>>19087822
Society without struggle or conflict would be completely pointless and it would be a dull world to live in. Humans need struggle and challenges and can’t simply be handed everything.

>>19089509
That may very be what he is saying, but this has nothing to do with Plato at all.
Plato did not say the Forms could be "expressed unambiguously" and especially not in mathematical language.
The Forms are not like mathematical structures acting in a defined way, they are perfect but reflect imperfectly in the world.
Presupposing the existence of an ideal particle or whatever is not a Form. Forms are innate ideas.

>>19089539
>hostility from people in the humanities comes from
Just lmao at this.
Science is the dogmatic discipline par excellence.
As you said, philosophy has *always* taken science very seriously, whereas the vice-versa is not the case. This should really tell you which discipline is actually looking answers and which one has dogmatic delusions of grandeur, and has dismissed an entire discipline out of hand (as seen in the above quotes).

>>19089570
Mathematical objects are forms. Plato even makes use of geometrical examples. Mathematics is innate (again, Reed Plato).

>>19087668
The scientific method is dead in the water. All "science" does now is work towards 2 goals:
1. State surveilliance and annihilation of human dignity and freedom
2. Developing shit to further the consumer society.

We aren't making leaps and bounds, rates are slowing and scientific gains are blockaded by special interests. Look at Covid where medications like Ivermectin are randomly shilled as "horse pills" (despite that being only one of several functions...) by the media because the Pharma mega corps pushing their broken vaccines want to cash cow world govts (and its working) and world govts want toe nslave their population via lockdown controls, tracking apps, etc. This is where "science" has taken us. They killed god and replaced him with the bug man and w*myn femcel who, with rotted ovaries in the case of the femcel and worthless HRT surgery on behalf of the bug man, try to lecture us about "LE HECKIN SCIENCE PROGRESS!!!" in their cult like fashion, blindly worshipping and forcing humanity into a penned in slaughterhouse.

I long for the black flag, Jolly Rodger, and a band of men who went encountering a femcel or bug man will, instead of using words, just take their skull and bash it on the pavement and rob the Pharma corps and inject them to death with their own vaccines, etc. 2,000 years ago men would have done exactly this but look at how far humanity has fallen into the dregs of the worst kind of Han Chinese bureaucratic feminity enslavement

>>19087778
this.
those guys probably don't even know that they are embarrassing themselves

>>19088469
Died gloriously in the battles before the singularity

>>19087696
Progress is a myth invented by Marxists used to enslave people into their ideological fanaticism. This is why Marxists refuse to read history, or if they do, they try to invent some bizarre "materialist interpretation" (in other words, they examine about 20% of history and then write the rest off and ignore it).

Anyone using the term "progress" to describe social engagements is a shill, a liar, and a tyrant.

>>19089673
good lord imagine this being your brain

>>19089637
You know, you would convince more people if you didn't lay out your posts like a retard

>>19089677
There is no "progress". Social engagements are circular. Read the Athenian disaster at Syracuse in 413 BC and see the exact same story play out again, and again, and again, and again. The myth of progress is entrapment, the Marxists promoted this as a means of securing a base of power for themselves and monopolizing industry for their Party cadres. This is what "progress" has alwas translated into.

Look at the covid scam going on now. You get the same myth of progress. The Pharma Corps (with so many malpractice lawsuits it is insane to see the media backing them so fanatically - until you understand the connection between media power and state backed industry...). Ivermectin, for example, a miracle drug found in Japan that has been used on humans for a long time now to great successes and benefits is being shilled by the "media" as a "LE HORSE PILL XDDDD" because they work in the pocket of Pharma corps that want to push the vaxxmaxx scam. Anyway, the "progress" myth is used solely by people who want to enslave you. The Marxists did this to enslave humanity in their path.

Look at Spain in the 30s, when the Marxists and LEftists formed their so called "Republic" (which collapsed due to Leftist infightingayyy lmaaaaao). They promised "le progress" and tried to sell the myth that the "LE WIGHT WANG" was going to bring them back to the "dark ages" or whatever other "anti-progress" propaganda they spewed out. Yet, under Franco, Spain not only prospered but endured and as soon as Franco left power nad the power returned into the hands of the "PROGRESS CULT", Spain has now become a shit hole with unemployment rates for youth reaching into 60% now. That's why PROGRESS and anyone who shills PROGRESS should be taken out of turn and shot.

I just want to study whale migration and sympatry

>>19087668
Isn't this high praises of philosophy??
I've seen this image before but "won't take common sense as an answer" is exactly what philosophy is and that's a very good thing.
Common sense can lead you to famine, destitution, book burning, and genocide.

>>19089711
good lord imagine this being your brain

>>19089781
At least say something more interesting than his post you fag lord

>>19087668
Bible warned about "science"

>>19089781
I accept your surrender.

>>19089787
if you think that's interesting you need a doctor

>>19087776
There is also the natural impulse to murder. Even most legal systems acknowledge as such, hence why crimes 'of passion' are weighed less than premeditated crimes. Of course, i suppose there is no reason to oppose the impulse to murder since it is natural.

>>19089792
>no argument
>just one liner cope
ur INTELEK IS FAR SUPERIOR!!
;LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>19087696
Towards nothing, exactly like philosophy and even theology in certain cases. Only endless debates without reaching any truth.

>>19087724
Lots of things in science have nothing to do with practical goals/QoL like this.

>>19088413
>It is, however, the smallest thing unto me since I have been amongst men, to see one person lacking an eye, another an ear, and a third a leg, and that others have lost the tongue, or the nose, or the head.

>I see and have seen worse things, and divers things so hideous, that I should neither like to speak of all matters, nor even keep silent about some of them: namely, men who lack everything, except that they have too much of one thing--men who are nothing more than a big eye, or a big mouth, or a big belly, or something else big,--reversed cripples, I call such men.

>>19087912
>AI says
palm reader is more advanced than that shit.

>>19089673
>invented by Marxists
False. Opinion discarded.

>>19089591
Oh no no no, this nigga failed high school trig.
Just use SOHCAHTOA faggot! SOHCAHTOA!

>>19087668
Where does Carl Sagan belong?

>>19087777
>>19088391

>>19087696
Nothing, progress is just another ideology

>>19087668
"scientism" is a made up pejorative used by people to dismiss being disagreed with and ignore facts that dont align with their desires

>>19089357
>>19089539
>I'll add that this post in particular is especially comical since the best philosophy has consistently been made by mathematicians and logicians.
Not really. Yes, there were plenty of philosophers throughout history who have delved into mathematics -- Plato, Aristotle, Leibniz, Berkeley, Reid -- but I wouldn't say that's what makes them great. Being appreciative of mathematical work and actually doing innovative mathematical work are two different things. There are plenty of great philosophers who made almost no relevant contributions to mathematics: Plotinus, Aquinas, Eckhart, Böhme, Silesius, Schelling, Carlyle, and the list goes on.

>>19087720
who made this

>>19087706
Underrated literal shitpost

>>19087668
Dawkins is complimenting philosophers here.